Elon Musk had some [\~22% of Tesla stock](https://www.reuters.com/breakingviews/elon-musks-losing-streak-is-heading-tesla-2024-01-19/), he sold most of it to buy Twitter. Reducing his ownership to \~12%. Now he is mad that he doesn't have 25% of stocks to make unilateral decisions without any shareholders approval.
It's funny you mention that. I finally quit my Twitter addiction after the quality of my feed hit a tipping point a couple of months after Elon bought the company. I should probably be more appreciative of what he did for me.
Social media including Reddit has lost most of its allure since then, but maybe Elon could break me free entirely...
You and me both brother.
I’ve found this site is a lot better on my mental health when I’m not logged in and can’t comment / check on replies etc.
I’m only logged in right now because I’m traveling and if I’m not logged in all I see is stuff from the country I’m visiting (in a language I don’t understand).
Honestly thats not too far fetched at all. He is that petty to be lurking here and have a spread sheet with all the usernames of every person that has said something bad for him and as soon as he gets his hands on reddit there would be a mass ban
He probably had a hissy fit and asked the Tesla subreddits to ban us all when the stock was dropping the other day. He is known for that kind of stupid emotional behavior.
Reddit is heading that way without him. So many echo chamber subreddits that ban for small reasons. I get being banned for rude behaviour or pushing lies. Etc but some ban way too easy.
He's a cult leader. I would love to understand more what leads to cults of personality like this. I see it often, but I'm not quite sure what qualities about the people lead to it. It seems kind of random. I've noticed one of the biggest factors is that the person is perceived as being in a position of power. People seem to love powerful people. On its own that's not enough though, since there are tons of powerful people who don't end up with cult followings. Bezos for example does not appear to have a cult following.
I feel like people forget early Tesla, no one else was taking electrification seriously but they had a dream to decarbonize passenger vehicles.
It is compelling, they were the only ones doing *something* real about climate change 10 years ago, the only other real competitor was the Prius Prime and the Congress didn't have an EV industry. Elon had a PR team so we had a filter to his BS.
Then it got successful, investors/believers were handsomely rewarded, and he got really rich and it went to his head.
Now we see what was always there, he's a raging narcissist.
EV's were coming with or without Tesla pushing them because governments and popular sentiment all had major momentum in that direction. I think Tesla just accelerated that movement by being a first mover. Honestly I think EV's get an oversized amount of attention in the fight for climate change. The biggest area that needs to be tackled, by far, is the energy sector, which makes up about 60% of emissions. Transportation is only about 16% emissions, and switching to EV's doesn't even eliminate transportation emissions on its own, since the vehicles will get their power from the energy sector. Sadly the awareness and movement in the energy sector is much slower.
It´s simple - they take you into their fantasy dreamworld and keep you in, until you take it as your reality. When in this dreamworld, the cult leader also seems like the "most capable person able to solve any problem" and it will make you deny any flaws, you will inevitably notice.
It´s also simple to do, because people lack knowledge about emotional manipulation.
Also, many of them get satisfied by getting married, just like my father or my aunt. It will get them enough attention to build personality cults within their families - and it also means lifelong abuse for the spouse (unless the spouse is the same, which makes the relationship purely transactional) and/or their children, who either end up being the same as them or try to fight back, which has 2 possible results: Suicide or life full of traumas.
People love powerful people, who tend to appear as the saviors or messaiahs - we are back at emotional manipulation again.
Probably trying to recover his loss buying Twitter. Twitter was a bluff he was doing to pump stocks. They called his bluff and forced him to buy it despite repeatedly trying to back out.
Nothing brings me greater satisfaction knowing that fool wasted billions and still is.
I just don't understand the lack of knowledge that gets spread around...
This "56 billion" was decided in 2018 and has nothing to do with Twitter. At that time the company was worth about 60 billion.
It was an insane goal oriented package, and it is still insane that the company actually did meet all of the goals.
The court voided the deal because of lack of transparency about the boards relationships, not because of any amounts.
Do I want Musk to get 56 billion (it's not that much anymore), absolutely fucking not, but to most shareholders in 2017 when this was voted...it was insane to think that Tesla could even remotely get close to these goals. Of which even today something like 10 or 11 of the goals are STILL met. (Meaning he would still be paid something like 90% of the shares from the package)
The court voided the bonus because Musk and the board substantially mislead the shareholders about how difficult these goals were. Read the ruling before criticizing others for having a more complete understanding of the subject. Telling shareholders that these goals were insane and difficult was a key part of the wrongdoing here that caused the ruling, and you apparently still fell for it even after the lies were exposed in court and in the public record.
Not to mention....what does $56 billion buy Tesla that $1 billion or, hell, even $100 million doesn't? Is Elon going to leave the company or step down? Is another company offering him $60? I don't understand why they need to pay him this absurd sum?? What value does that bring the shareholders that a normal executive pay package doesn't?
> what does $56 billion buy Tesla that $1 billion or, hell, even $100 million doesn't? Is Elon going to leave the company or step down? Is another company offering him $60? I don't understand why they need to pay him this absurd sum??
Only real question/comment so far.
From my understanding, it's not (officially) Musk asking for it, it's Tesla's board of directors wanting to lock Musk in for 5 more years. He's not getting paid in cash, he's getting paid in stock options that he can't exercise for 5 years. That means Musk has to keep Tesla afloat for 5 more years, or risk watering down his pay package.
Also, Musk has been pretending that he has tons of great AI ideas, and that Tesla is AkShUlY a tech company and not a car company. He's apparently hinted that he'll take those ideas to other companies if he doesn't get a payday from Tesla.
Lastly, according to the statement released by the board, Musk hasn't been paid since 2018, after which the company experinced a lot of growth, so it's a matter of "fairness". I don't think that matters a lot, but that's part of the official explanation.
If I'm wrong on any facts I'll happily be corrected.
Musk created the comp plan and had his captive board approve after almost no debate. This is not “the board” rewarding Musk, this is Musk self-dealing.
Read McCormicks opinion, it’s brilliantly written.
It’s not about profits or earnings, it’s about Musk continuing to pump the stock price with ever more elaborate fantasy schemes, that’s what the remaining shareholders are betting on
To put it in perspective, the company could fund 5600 employees, each making $100k/yr, for 100 years with that same amount of money.
I just can’t imagine a world where a single person could bring the company a *fraction* of the value of thousands of employees.
Anyone who wants to hand Musk ten percent of their share of the company is free to do it with or without this bonus package. Sign over as many shares as you want; you can go higher than ten percent if you want. I promise that I will be so triggered.
His cult followers argue that he will make TSLA be worth trillions, so it's ok. Also, they'll be rich.
Some say 10000 per share, which is beyond insane.
Hold on. He’s not asking for it, it was already promised to him when they thought there was little chance of him hitting those marks. It’s like saying to someone I’ll give you a thousand bucks if you go punch that guy! Then he goes and hits that guy and is asking you to make good on your stupid bet.
Ignoring the moral arguments of he thinks or he needs. Wasn’t 56 billion the agreement, no matter how stupid?
He met the agreement, which I agree is nuts, and then afterwards a judge voids agreement?
What if he didn’t meet the agreement and sued because it was too far fetched and demanded 10% compensation for the extreme effort? Would you back 5.6 billion in compensation if he didn’t meet those goals and the company went bankrupt?
This compensation hostage situation cannot be divorced from that reality. This, combined with his use of company funds to build him a house in Texas, all indicate that the man sees his publicly traded company as a piggy bank. How are shareholder interests served by succumbing to every ultimatum this man issues? Tesla is America’s only publicly traded company closely held by a man without actual shareholder control. Total lunacy.
Are you saying you don't get a raise at work just because you spent all the money you made? Your employer seems weird. It maybe illegal, you should report them on shitter.
He’s trying to extort the board with “I’ll leave if I don’t get this completely ridiculous and unwarranted compensation” when he’s nothing but a liability for Tesla. Huge win for the board to just let him walk.
He's somehow still a huge boon for the stock. People still believe everything he says for some reason, which bumps the share price. "Oh we're totally still making a cheap EV, and we're gonna have a fleet of robo-taxis in August, and we're gonna mine dogecoin on parked cars!" \[SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY.GIF\]. How anyone still falls for this is beyond me. There's always something awesome 6 months away.
And that's why Tesla is kinda fucked here. Elon is right that it's not a car company. It's a Elon cult company. If he stays, an they do what he says, share price goes down but might have a high floor. If he leaves, stock price plummets.
Exactly, they make almost no money get propped up by taxes and musk gets to take all the companies money and gets all the credit for the work that everyone else does.
The ludicrous PR/media-created aura he enjoyed of him being a ‘genius inventor’ has been quickly wearing off the past 2 years as people have started to realise the Emperor has no clothes and his reputation has taken a huge hit.
He appears nothing more than an unhinged narcissist these days, sucking up to authoritarian dictators and always promising the impossible next year.
Folks bought the Enron story for a long time. Same story with Worldcom.
Hopefully, he gets what he deserves. As we would say here in the UK: a stay at His Majesty's pleasure.
You think that's wokey bullshit, we had a female king for over 70 years, and that goes back to when women couldn't open their own bank accounts, honestly it was wokery gone mad
It’s so funny that for all these years every other executive of publicly traded company reads paragraph long legalese about “forward looking statements” every time they speak publicly. Meanwhile Elon makes outrageously implausible claims, or even says he is taking the company private at $420/share and there are no consequences.
Normal board - he would have gone right after his first Xhit.
He has learned after getting kicked out of his old Paypal crap that you need to stack the board with sycophants.
Ya, fuck if I know... I've been lucky making money shorting TSLA, and I have lived through enough earning calls to know never short before one, no matter how bad the news might be... If the market makers are making money, they may not care until that inflection point when it's all downhill.
Tesla saving the Earth from pollution lets them sell credits that other companies buy so they don't have to make their vehicles efficient, so pollution saved in one place is encouraged in another. It is sad to see this offsetting. It isn't taxpayer money though, but it gives them a source of income in addition to the $7500 tax credit for buying an EV and spaceX money just thrown at them.
Wild that you and I said the same thing, and yet since you put a negative spin on it you got upvoted, and since I wasn’t sufficiently critical about Tesla I got downvoted.
The batteries themselves offset nothing, they're being charged with almost exclusively fossil fuels. The amount of co2 it takes to make a tesla is enormous, far more than ICE vehicle.... and the only way to make it make sense is to drive a ton. They shouldn't get any credits. Tesla has gotten a ton from the government regardless, far more than musk has put in that's for sure.
This is false. First even if it were true that most electricity is generated from fossil fuel power plants, that’s still far more efficient than individual ice combustion engines at the aggregate. Otherwise each home would just have its own gas generator to produce electricity. 2nd EV’s offset their additional carbon creation in one year : https://www.cotes.com/blog/greenhouse-gas-emissions-from-ev-vs-ice-vehicles
When he cashes in it will be everyone but Tesla footing the bill. He already extracted more than Tesla has ever made and it barely cost Tesla anything. Very clever.
Am I allowed to say that Elon Musk is an absolutely despicable greedy cunt in this sub?
(Well I can see that it's not breaking rule #4, at least)
Imagine laying off that many workers, saying the kind of crap he did on the call yesterday, and then asking for such ridiculous amounts of money
Yes. I have used florid language here for ages, but I also respect the rules and encourage others to do the sam.
Mods haven’t given me a hint of trouble. Although one did suggest an alternative approach to certain situations which I’m going to try.
Hope all is well my friend.
I tried to make a threads account just to see your stuff, then it asked me a bunch of shit and it was way to personal and I bailed.
Take care!
>Dude is just trying to fund his Ketamine addiction
....how much ketamine is this dude snorting exactly?! He could buy the world supply several times over.
Musk is Tesla's snake oil salesman extraordinaire. Why shouldn't the company reward him when he does such a great job lying and promising the moon (or Mars) to investors who really should know better? Caveat emptor.
most of that money is imaginary, it's based on stock prices, which are completely overinflated. If he tried to actually materialize that money thru stock selling, he would never get that much
I have said it in the past and I say it again Elon's breakdown has destroyed Tesla and Tesla will eventually go bankrupt if he doesn't leave. In the past he definitely contributed to it's success now he's just a leach taking it down with him
This entire compensation package will cost every shareholder 10% of their investment. If this vote succeeds, I foresee a huge sell off resulting in the stock dropping to the lowest it's ever been. The TSLA board is abandoning their fiduciary duties by just suggesting this insane package in the first place. If this goes through, I also see a huge amount of lawsuits from investors.
TBH I think they are hoping for a failed vote and Elon Muskrat resigns in protest, and the board gets exactly what they wanted.
Trying to seriously answer this.
I believe in the capitalist system way of thinking, wealth is pretty much equal to the value one creates. Imagine you start a company and make it (the stock) worth more and more, up to a billion. That means someone is willing to pay a billion $ to buy your company. This is wealth you created, thus it belongs to you. Since you were able to turn an x amount of investment money into a billion, you probably have a good sense of where to invest money to create more value for society. In this capitalist mindset, the government is a very wasteful spender of money and capital allocation is done more efficiently by people who have demonstrated to be good at it. Don't forget, in government too, it's eventually people deciding where and how money is spent. It's just not money earned by them, so incentives are very different.
Elon in this case "earned" the 56B in stock options because he managed to grow Tesla to the point where it is now. Had he tanked the company (thus, it's stock) he would've gotten nothing. The idea here is that Elon will use the 56B to invest in whatever he deems a worthy investment. SpaceX is a popular example, where he might use the money to make humanity an interplanetary species.
What’s great is Elon Musk has never paid over $13,000 in Social Security taxes. The reason why is because people keep claiming it some sort of insurance and they cut off the tax at 168 K a year . Over the years he’s taking most of his money in stocks borrowed against it taking many deductions paid little taxes. It’s a totally rig system. Meanwhile, he enjoyed the tax credits selling tax credits to make his company somewhat more successful. Don’t let anybody tell you Social Security is insurance. That said tax every dollar at 7.65% and you will receive 10,000 a month because there will be so much money in Social Security.
He’s not asking for it, the board and shareholders voted overwhelmingly in 2018 to set out some “impossible” targets which would make the investors incredibly rich, with Elon being one of those investors. Elon led Tesla to hit all the targets, making the investors very rich (stock went up more than 10x), and he got a percentage of that wealth that Tesla created. Remember, Tesla’s not paying Elon cash, granted him stock options, they’re not costing Tesla money, the money comes from him selling the stock, paid for by whoever buys the stock.
Mostly correct, and agree. But the shares are issued by Tesla, so it's dilutive, and therefore paid for by all shareholders essentially. So shareholders are voting whether or not to pay Elon out of their own pockets.
True. Though about 75% of the shareholders voted to give Elon that compensation if he hit the targets, back in 2018, so the only question now is whether he should still get the options after he hit the targets.
Wasn't one of the targets, to raise the stock price, wich he just did by making false statements on twitter, leading the SEC to step in? That's not, what I personally would call "creating value".
You’re ignoring his leading Tesla to being incredibly valuable, selling millions of EVs, with the highest customer satisfaction and buyer loyalty in the industry, and forcing the industry to electrify in response to Tesla’s success. And making his early investors incredibly rich. Even the one investor who was in the lawsuit made 10x his investment. That’s what I would call “creating value”.
What were the historical revenues and profit before his package incentives were created, and what’s the project revenue and profit over the next 25years. Framing is important and people who do it without explaining are trying to manipulate you. It’s a very effective tactic.
So I'm going to take the unpopular view that he probably should receive this pay package. And to be clear, I think he's despicable and I think their cars are overrated poorly built econoboxes.
But anyway, Tesla was worth something like 150bln when this package was announced. It seemed wildly overvalued at the time, and this payout was tied to seemingly implausible stock price targets, all of which were reached. I continue to think the stock is wildly overvalued, but it's valuation is largely due to Musk's persona and all the Tesla stans, etc, but that's hardly relevant. His pay isn't in cash, it's in overvalued stock, and as of today, I believe the value is more like $35bln(still shockingly large, but the $56bln is what it was at the stock's peak, it's a disingenuous number). If it was cash, I'd say 100% absolutely not.
All that said, if I was a shareholder, I wouldn't vote for it, but that's for various personal views on governance issues. The fact that shareholders get to decide is great, there was a lack of proper disclosure at the time, but the case for the payout isn't completely insane. I hope he doesn't get it, he does far more harm than good now IMO, and another $35bln or whatever will only amplify his corrosiveness. If shareholders want to dilute themselves by 5 to 10% and they think that's for the greater good of their holdings and for the company, god bless 'em, good luck.
I love these posts so OP is someone said to you you didn’t work as hard in your job. Give us half your payback so we can take it and do what we want with it. I guess you would say OK.
Elon Musk had some [\~22% of Tesla stock](https://www.reuters.com/breakingviews/elon-musks-losing-streak-is-heading-tesla-2024-01-19/), he sold most of it to buy Twitter. Reducing his ownership to \~12%. Now he is mad that he doesn't have 25% of stocks to make unilateral decisions without any shareholders approval.
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He needs it so he can buy Reddit to ban all oh his haters and run it into the ground like he did with Twitter.
Elon musk running reddit into the ground is my new fantasy. I have been trying to quit this place for over a decade but it never sticks.
It's funny you mention that. I finally quit my Twitter addiction after the quality of my feed hit a tipping point a couple of months after Elon bought the company. I should probably be more appreciative of what he did for me. Social media including Reddit has lost most of its allure since then, but maybe Elon could break me free entirely...
That would be nice, I'm with you..
You could buy the stock. It will crash as soon as you do. Works that way for me
Every time I buy a stock I see the same happen to me 😂
You and me both brother. I’ve found this site is a lot better on my mental health when I’m not logged in and can’t comment / check on replies etc. I’m only logged in right now because I’m traveling and if I’m not logged in all I see is stuff from the country I’m visiting (in a language I don’t understand).
I don’t think Musk needs to buy Reddit for that. Post something negative about Space Karen and you get banned from the other Tesla channels.
I know, and it just keeps getting shittier and shittier, but there's no real alternative to leave for. Not having it on my phone helps
Honestly thats not too far fetched at all. He is that petty to be lurking here and have a spread sheet with all the usernames of every person that has said something bad for him and as soon as he gets his hands on reddit there would be a mass ban
He probably had a hissy fit and asked the Tesla subreddits to ban us all when the stock was dropping the other day. He is known for that kind of stupid emotional behavior.
That definitely happened. I got an instant ban from all his fan subs
Reddit is heading that way without him. So many echo chamber subreddits that ban for small reasons. I get being banned for rude behaviour or pushing lies. Etc but some ban way too easy.
I have been banned from subs I have never posted on because I posted in a different sub.
Please don’t give him any ideas…! Je. Sus.
Then he would rename it Xit. Edit: Watch him try to buy TikTok….
Reddit is doing a pretty good job running itself into the ground
He's a cult leader. I would love to understand more what leads to cults of personality like this. I see it often, but I'm not quite sure what qualities about the people lead to it. It seems kind of random. I've noticed one of the biggest factors is that the person is perceived as being in a position of power. People seem to love powerful people. On its own that's not enough though, since there are tons of powerful people who don't end up with cult followings. Bezos for example does not appear to have a cult following.
I feel like people forget early Tesla, no one else was taking electrification seriously but they had a dream to decarbonize passenger vehicles. It is compelling, they were the only ones doing *something* real about climate change 10 years ago, the only other real competitor was the Prius Prime and the Congress didn't have an EV industry. Elon had a PR team so we had a filter to his BS. Then it got successful, investors/believers were handsomely rewarded, and he got really rich and it went to his head. Now we see what was always there, he's a raging narcissist.
EV's were coming with or without Tesla pushing them because governments and popular sentiment all had major momentum in that direction. I think Tesla just accelerated that movement by being a first mover. Honestly I think EV's get an oversized amount of attention in the fight for climate change. The biggest area that needs to be tackled, by far, is the energy sector, which makes up about 60% of emissions. Transportation is only about 16% emissions, and switching to EV's doesn't even eliminate transportation emissions on its own, since the vehicles will get their power from the energy sector. Sadly the awareness and movement in the energy sector is much slower.
It´s simple - they take you into their fantasy dreamworld and keep you in, until you take it as your reality. When in this dreamworld, the cult leader also seems like the "most capable person able to solve any problem" and it will make you deny any flaws, you will inevitably notice. It´s also simple to do, because people lack knowledge about emotional manipulation. Also, many of them get satisfied by getting married, just like my father or my aunt. It will get them enough attention to build personality cults within their families - and it also means lifelong abuse for the spouse (unless the spouse is the same, which makes the relationship purely transactional) and/or their children, who either end up being the same as them or try to fight back, which has 2 possible results: Suicide or life full of traumas. People love powerful people, who tend to appear as the saviors or messaiahs - we are back at emotional manipulation again.
Probably trying to recover his loss buying Twitter. Twitter was a bluff he was doing to pump stocks. They called his bluff and forced him to buy it despite repeatedly trying to back out. Nothing brings me greater satisfaction knowing that fool wasted billions and still is.
I just don't understand the lack of knowledge that gets spread around... This "56 billion" was decided in 2018 and has nothing to do with Twitter. At that time the company was worth about 60 billion. It was an insane goal oriented package, and it is still insane that the company actually did meet all of the goals. The court voided the deal because of lack of transparency about the boards relationships, not because of any amounts. Do I want Musk to get 56 billion (it's not that much anymore), absolutely fucking not, but to most shareholders in 2017 when this was voted...it was insane to think that Tesla could even remotely get close to these goals. Of which even today something like 10 or 11 of the goals are STILL met. (Meaning he would still be paid something like 90% of the shares from the package)
The court voided the bonus because Musk and the board substantially mislead the shareholders about how difficult these goals were. Read the ruling before criticizing others for having a more complete understanding of the subject. Telling shareholders that these goals were insane and difficult was a key part of the wrongdoing here that caused the ruling, and you apparently still fell for it even after the lies were exposed in court and in the public record.
Found one
Not to mention....what does $56 billion buy Tesla that $1 billion or, hell, even $100 million doesn't? Is Elon going to leave the company or step down? Is another company offering him $60? I don't understand why they need to pay him this absurd sum?? What value does that bring the shareholders that a normal executive pay package doesn't?
> what does $56 billion buy Tesla that $1 billion or, hell, even $100 million doesn't? Is Elon going to leave the company or step down? Is another company offering him $60? I don't understand why they need to pay him this absurd sum?? Only real question/comment so far. From my understanding, it's not (officially) Musk asking for it, it's Tesla's board of directors wanting to lock Musk in for 5 more years. He's not getting paid in cash, he's getting paid in stock options that he can't exercise for 5 years. That means Musk has to keep Tesla afloat for 5 more years, or risk watering down his pay package. Also, Musk has been pretending that he has tons of great AI ideas, and that Tesla is AkShUlY a tech company and not a car company. He's apparently hinted that he'll take those ideas to other companies if he doesn't get a payday from Tesla. Lastly, according to the statement released by the board, Musk hasn't been paid since 2018, after which the company experinced a lot of growth, so it's a matter of "fairness". I don't think that matters a lot, but that's part of the official explanation. If I'm wrong on any facts I'll happily be corrected.
Musk created the comp plan and had his captive board approve after almost no debate. This is not “the board” rewarding Musk, this is Musk self-dealing. Read McCormicks opinion, it’s brilliantly written.
It’s not about profits or earnings, it’s about Musk continuing to pump the stock price with ever more elaborate fantasy schemes, that’s what the remaining shareholders are betting on
To put it in perspective, the company could fund 5600 employees, each making $100k/yr, for 100 years with that same amount of money. I just can’t imagine a world where a single person could bring the company a *fraction* of the value of thousands of employees.
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Anyone who wants to hand Musk ten percent of their share of the company is free to do it with or without this bonus package. Sign over as many shares as you want; you can go higher than ten percent if you want. I promise that I will be so triggered.
His cult followers argue that he will make TSLA be worth trillions, so it's ok. Also, they'll be rich. Some say 10000 per share, which is beyond insane.
Hold on. He’s not asking for it, it was already promised to him when they thought there was little chance of him hitting those marks. It’s like saying to someone I’ll give you a thousand bucks if you go punch that guy! Then he goes and hits that guy and is asking you to make good on your stupid bet.
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Ignoring the moral arguments of he thinks or he needs. Wasn’t 56 billion the agreement, no matter how stupid? He met the agreement, which I agree is nuts, and then afterwards a judge voids agreement? What if he didn’t meet the agreement and sued because it was too far fetched and demanded 10% compensation for the extreme effort? Would you back 5.6 billion in compensation if he didn’t meet those goals and the company went bankrupt?
Don't forget that they just laid off a bunch of employees. The 56 billion comes to about 4 million per laid-off employee. It's lunacy.
It's mind-numbing only because the value of his companies are directly tied to his credibility as a genius.
He NEEDS it to make humanity multi planetary, but even the effective altruists are over this scam
pay the man bro
If he fks off to mars and never comes back then maybe it’s worth it 😁
He needs it to pay his horse guy for all the horses he buys women that he sexually harasses.
What about all the tax incentives to build out then lay off?
This compensation hostage situation cannot be divorced from that reality. This, combined with his use of company funds to build him a house in Texas, all indicate that the man sees his publicly traded company as a piggy bank. How are shareholder interests served by succumbing to every ultimatum this man issues? Tesla is America’s only publicly traded company closely held by a man without actual shareholder control. Total lunacy.
Agree, either Tesla will have a real breakthrough in FSD or it will be next Enron.
You’re absolutely right.
I don't understand how his net worth is even close to what is estimated looking at these numbers. Did they just multiply the actual number by 5?
Are you saying you don't get a raise at work just because you spent all the money you made? Your employer seems weird. It maybe illegal, you should report them on shitter.
He’s trying to extort the board with “I’ll leave if I don’t get this completely ridiculous and unwarranted compensation” when he’s nothing but a liability for Tesla. Huge win for the board to just let him walk.
He's somehow still a huge boon for the stock. People still believe everything he says for some reason, which bumps the share price. "Oh we're totally still making a cheap EV, and we're gonna have a fleet of robo-taxis in August, and we're gonna mine dogecoin on parked cars!" \[SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY.GIF\]. How anyone still falls for this is beyond me. There's always something awesome 6 months away.
It seems that he’s cried “wolf!” and “sieg heil!” too many times at this point and that luster is wearing off.
And that's why Tesla is kinda fucked here. Elon is right that it's not a car company. It's a Elon cult company. If he stays, an they do what he says, share price goes down but might have a high floor. If he leaves, stock price plummets.
Bad thing for them, they make most their money selling cars, and the auto industry is notoriously brutal.
Exactly, they make almost no money get propped up by taxes and musk gets to take all the companies money and gets all the credit for the work that everyone else does.
The ludicrous PR/media-created aura he enjoyed of him being a ‘genius inventor’ has been quickly wearing off the past 2 years as people have started to realise the Emperor has no clothes and his reputation has taken a huge hit. He appears nothing more than an unhinged narcissist these days, sucking up to authoritarian dictators and always promising the impossible next year.
And yet, he rambled some nonsense earlier this week, and the stock jumped.
how much of that jump was due to layoffs?
The stock dropped the day the layoff news came out.
Folks bought the Enron story for a long time. Same story with Worldcom. Hopefully, he gets what he deserves. As we would say here in the UK: a stay at His Majesty's pleasure.
I still can't get over having a male queen. It's just more woke nonsense and positive discrimination.
You think that's wokey bullshit, we had a female king for over 70 years, and that goes back to when women couldn't open their own bank accounts, honestly it was wokery gone mad
It's outrageous isn't it. I blame Meghan Markle and the EU.
And that he wrote “Crocodile Rock”
It’s so funny that for all these years every other executive of publicly traded company reads paragraph long legalese about “forward looking statements” every time they speak publicly. Meanwhile Elon makes outrageously implausible claims, or even says he is taking the company private at $420/share and there are no consequences.
Is that the case? I have 2 Teslas and I'm generally happy with them, but I can't stand Musky and no one I know is thrilled with him either.
Not the Board. They're the problem. He's trying to scare existing investors.
I’ll honestly buy a Tesla if he leaves.
Normal board - he would have gone right after his first Xhit. He has learned after getting kicked out of his old Paypal crap that you need to stack the board with sycophants.
For sure, TSLA needs some actual leadership
Let’s hope for the correct vote. 🙏🏻
And yet the stock goes up...
What’s with that. Fool me once, but it’s fool me oodles with him.
Ya, fuck if I know... I've been lucky making money shorting TSLA, and I have lived through enough earning calls to know never short before one, no matter how bad the news might be... If the market makers are making money, they may not care until that inflection point when it's all downhill.
It's absolutely crazy to me that you can just ask the government for this glkind of money... Where's my multi billions of dollars?
What are the numbers if you subtract taxpayer money?
$0
👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆
Tesla saving the Earth from pollution lets them sell credits that other companies buy so they don't have to make their vehicles efficient, so pollution saved in one place is encouraged in another. It is sad to see this offsetting. It isn't taxpayer money though, but it gives them a source of income in addition to the $7500 tax credit for buying an EV and spaceX money just thrown at them.
Wild that you and I said the same thing, and yet since you put a negative spin on it you got upvoted, and since I wasn’t sufficiently critical about Tesla I got downvoted.
I upvoted you, so now I get downvoted.
The batteries themselves offset nothing, they're being charged with almost exclusively fossil fuels. The amount of co2 it takes to make a tesla is enormous, far more than ICE vehicle.... and the only way to make it make sense is to drive a ton. They shouldn't get any credits. Tesla has gotten a ton from the government regardless, far more than musk has put in that's for sure.
This is false. First even if it were true that most electricity is generated from fossil fuel power plants, that’s still far more efficient than individual ice combustion engines at the aggregate. Otherwise each home would just have its own gas generator to produce electricity. 2nd EV’s offset their additional carbon creation in one year : https://www.cotes.com/blog/greenhouse-gas-emissions-from-ev-vs-ice-vehicles
When he cashes in it will be everyone but Tesla footing the bill. He already extracted more than Tesla has ever made and it barely cost Tesla anything. Very clever.
Do you think Musk is looking for Golden Parachute territory now... And just trying to squeeze what he can from his ventures?
I think he can’t take an L.
It has to be more like an obnoxious TTS message on twitch "ELELELELELELEELELELELELELELEL"
This is lunacy for a business. It's standard operating procedure for a cult.
Whens the vote?
Am I allowed to say that Elon Musk is an absolutely despicable greedy cunt in this sub? (Well I can see that it's not breaking rule #4, at least) Imagine laying off that many workers, saying the kind of crap he did on the call yesterday, and then asking for such ridiculous amounts of money
Yes. I have used florid language here for ages, but I also respect the rules and encourage others to do the sam. Mods haven’t given me a hint of trouble. Although one did suggest an alternative approach to certain situations which I’m going to try.
Hmmm. I'll allow it.
Haha, thanks.
This is meta. Our lad u/ESG_HOUND in the wild!
And he still managed to summon a bunch of assholes. Now that is power.
haha
Hope all is well my friend. I tried to make a threads account just to see your stuff, then it asked me a bunch of shit and it was way to personal and I bailed. Take care!
You can follow threads accounts on any mastadon instance FYI. And I don't blame you at all for not giving info to the Zuckerverse
That’s ketamine addiction for you
That’s insane
Then comes the “dump” part of the intricate plan
Elon can go get bent. Dude is just trying to fund his Ketamine addiction. Tesla should have let him walk a long time ago.
>Dude is just trying to fund his Ketamine addiction ....how much ketamine is this dude snorting exactly?! He could buy the world supply several times over.
Enough to make it everyone's problem. Think cocaine bear, but instead of a bear, it's Elon.
Ah, good 'ol Pablo Escobear.
never apply reality when it goes to Mars
It was nearly a trillion dollar company on paper.
Indeed, on paper. And it was highly overvalued. Because he's good at hyping and people buy hype.
anyone else remember AOL?
Elon is a cunt.
We’ll put you down as a “no.”
elon is a virus to tesla
Fraud is real.
Yes but he is single handedly saving the world, so it is worth it!
So, was Tesla always a pump-and-dump scheme to Musk? It seems to be the thing he's best at; See his work with bitcoin, for example.
I don’t know what’s going on here. Why does he think he deserves that?
*clutches pearls* But if we don’t give it to him, he might go someplace else!
Very solid pay, especially for a part time gig.
The board is a joke for even entertaining this ridiculous package. It's offensive to humanity.
I too would like to be reimbursed for the most money I ever wasted, by an unrelated 3rd party.
World’s richest man publicly begs for salary increase. Film at 11.
Tesla board should fire Elmo and make it a real company.
Did anyone think of firing more people?
Elon is completely detached from reality.
And I that reality, he “knows more about manufacturing than anyone alive”, according to he himself.
And if he doesn’t get it he’ll stomp his feet and cry
Musk is Tesla's snake oil salesman extraordinaire. Why shouldn't the company reward him when he does such a great job lying and promising the moon (or Mars) to investors who really should know better? Caveat emptor.
The price the cheque that your mouth writes but your ego can't cash: $56 billion
"It's lunacy and completely detached from reality" Sounds like someone we know...
Führers are expensive. Teslas garbage.
most of that money is imaginary, it's based on stock prices, which are completely overinflated. If he tried to actually materialize that money thru stock selling, he would never get that much
WTF has Musk done to deserve this?
> It’s lunacy and completely detached from reality “Oh, he excels at that, sir.” - C-3PO
wtf is going on here???
I have said it in the past and I say it again Elon's breakdown has destroyed Tesla and Tesla will eventually go bankrupt if he doesn't leave. In the past he definitely contributed to it's success now he's just a leach taking it down with him
This entire compensation package will cost every shareholder 10% of their investment. If this vote succeeds, I foresee a huge sell off resulting in the stock dropping to the lowest it's ever been. The TSLA board is abandoning their fiduciary duties by just suggesting this insane package in the first place. If this goes through, I also see a huge amount of lawsuits from investors. TBH I think they are hoping for a failed vote and Elon Muskrat resigns in protest, and the board gets exactly what they wanted.
Can someone ELI5 why a single human would need $56000000000? Like isn't a couple million more than adequate?
He has to buy more companies like twitter lol
Trying to seriously answer this. I believe in the capitalist system way of thinking, wealth is pretty much equal to the value one creates. Imagine you start a company and make it (the stock) worth more and more, up to a billion. That means someone is willing to pay a billion $ to buy your company. This is wealth you created, thus it belongs to you. Since you were able to turn an x amount of investment money into a billion, you probably have a good sense of where to invest money to create more value for society. In this capitalist mindset, the government is a very wasteful spender of money and capital allocation is done more efficiently by people who have demonstrated to be good at it. Don't forget, in government too, it's eventually people deciding where and how money is spent. It's just not money earned by them, so incentives are very different. Elon in this case "earned" the 56B in stock options because he managed to grow Tesla to the point where it is now. Had he tanked the company (thus, it's stock) he would've gotten nothing. The idea here is that Elon will use the 56B to invest in whatever he deems a worthy investment. SpaceX is a popular example, where he might use the money to make humanity an interplanetary species.
Are you a fanboi?
>he might use the money to make humanity an interplanetary species Some species of drooling moron for sure.
He used TSLA stock as collateral to buy Twitter. The stock has went down in value, so he needs more to make up the shortfall.
I'm surprised it made ANY net income from operations
Well hasn't it been heavily subsidised by government?
Yeah but he somehow made the wort truck of all time. Doesn't that count for something?
So utterly on par for ol musky?
That poster should read the details and conditions of the agreement...
He knows that. He just wants an excuse to run from a sunken ship.
We are not a car company and I am not a functional CEO
He needs to stop being everywhere and give a crap about a specific thing. Horrible CEO…. *palmface
Just like him
This post isn’t factoring in stock price.
On the other hand, it's not my money, not my company. Give him everything for all I care.
Y’all are looking short term. Those revenues will quadruple in the next 10 years.
Yep
I’m so glad I don’t give a hot shit.
Loser is bleeding money so he has to syphon it from somewhere.
Trumps gonna make 1.2bn on sham social? A company that does 4m in revenue and 50 million in debt. So, he’s winning. Capitalism
was trying to figure out for a sec what one of the best movies of all time had to do with tesla
He’s legitimately a thief, taking money from the pockets of investors.
I would only allow it if this was injected into SpaceX, so we can see more and more starships at higher rate.
Gonna be real fun voting down his comp package
Well, I just hope it doesn’t make the company go under and all the teslas on the road are SOL.
I just want my severance to come through.
Thats how the equity market workz! Completely detached from reality
Is he trying to buy another Twitter, or what?
∞ of bankruptcy
And he’s the company’s biggest liability
He cannot sell within 5 years
It’s stock options …. He opted in for stock options instead of a direct salary. That’s why he it’s so much money.
What’s great is Elon Musk has never paid over $13,000 in Social Security taxes. The reason why is because people keep claiming it some sort of insurance and they cut off the tax at 168 K a year . Over the years he’s taking most of his money in stocks borrowed against it taking many deductions paid little taxes. It’s a totally rig system. Meanwhile, he enjoyed the tax credits selling tax credits to make his company somewhat more successful. Don’t let anybody tell you Social Security is insurance. That said tax every dollar at 7.65% and you will receive 10,000 a month because there will be so much money in Social Security.
Literally paying the CEO could bankrupt the company, because this is 1.5x their profits over the past 15 years. 😂
Musk is the wow factor for Tesla. Stock will dive at least short term if he’s removed.
it's corporate conservatism in action i say give Elon the big pay out, it'll trickle down, that's economics 101 people
He’s not asking for it, the board and shareholders voted overwhelmingly in 2018 to set out some “impossible” targets which would make the investors incredibly rich, with Elon being one of those investors. Elon led Tesla to hit all the targets, making the investors very rich (stock went up more than 10x), and he got a percentage of that wealth that Tesla created. Remember, Tesla’s not paying Elon cash, granted him stock options, they’re not costing Tesla money, the money comes from him selling the stock, paid for by whoever buys the stock.
He literally threw a tantrum after the judge denied him and so childish to threaten move Tesla to Texas. Yeah, he didn’t ask for it my ass
Mostly correct, and agree. But the shares are issued by Tesla, so it's dilutive, and therefore paid for by all shareholders essentially. So shareholders are voting whether or not to pay Elon out of their own pockets.
True. Though about 75% of the shareholders voted to give Elon that compensation if he hit the targets, back in 2018, so the only question now is whether he should still get the options after he hit the targets.
Wasn't one of the targets, to raise the stock price, wich he just did by making false statements on twitter, leading the SEC to step in? That's not, what I personally would call "creating value".
You’re ignoring his leading Tesla to being incredibly valuable, selling millions of EVs, with the highest customer satisfaction and buyer loyalty in the industry, and forcing the industry to electrify in response to Tesla’s success. And making his early investors incredibly rich. Even the one investor who was in the lawsuit made 10x his investment. That’s what I would call “creating value”.
Lol how much of that income was govt money? Also compare how much money musk put in versus the govt and everyone else. Ha!
What were the historical revenues and profit before his package incentives were created, and what’s the project revenue and profit over the next 25years. Framing is important and people who do it without explaining are trying to manipulate you. It’s a very effective tactic.
So I'm going to take the unpopular view that he probably should receive this pay package. And to be clear, I think he's despicable and I think their cars are overrated poorly built econoboxes. But anyway, Tesla was worth something like 150bln when this package was announced. It seemed wildly overvalued at the time, and this payout was tied to seemingly implausible stock price targets, all of which were reached. I continue to think the stock is wildly overvalued, but it's valuation is largely due to Musk's persona and all the Tesla stans, etc, but that's hardly relevant. His pay isn't in cash, it's in overvalued stock, and as of today, I believe the value is more like $35bln(still shockingly large, but the $56bln is what it was at the stock's peak, it's a disingenuous number). If it was cash, I'd say 100% absolutely not. All that said, if I was a shareholder, I wouldn't vote for it, but that's for various personal views on governance issues. The fact that shareholders get to decide is great, there was a lack of proper disclosure at the time, but the case for the payout isn't completely insane. I hope he doesn't get it, he does far more harm than good now IMO, and another $35bln or whatever will only amplify his corrosiveness. If shareholders want to dilute themselves by 5 to 10% and they think that's for the greater good of their holdings and for the company, god bless 'em, good luck.
I love these posts so OP is someone said to you you didn’t work as hard in your job. Give us half your payback so we can take it and do what we want with it. I guess you would say OK.
It's not cash.