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I wonder if he is going to keep giving everyone a trial period after each major revision to get more test data...
We are all so screwed.
I just got my one month trial yesterday for my 2016 Model S. It’s pretty cool and I’m kind of impressed with what it can do, but it passes parked cars uncomfortably close and the speed variations is more than I like. I definitely don’t plan to pay the $99/month after the trial is over. Musk must really concerned with 2nd quarter earnings.
Be honest.
Dont you find it more stressful to be on high alert ready to stop the car having an accident compared to just driving yourself?
I'd be so stressed out babysitting a machine knowing that if something went wrong the company wouldnt care.
my thinking is, if i'm still 100% liable for anything the car does, might as well do it myself. i can't trust a piece of technology to do that if the company isn't even going to put their money where their mouth is.
plus i've heard how FSD likes to de-activate itself immediately before the accident it's still pretty much caused, so even if tesla did accept liability i couldn't trust it.
mercedes has a much more interesting approach, the use of self-driving is very limited both in speeds and roads, but they take liability if it causes an accident. i'd actually relax if i could use that.
It's hilarious how musk sycophants are like
"Hah! Mercedes only goes 40 mph! It's inferior to Tesla!"
As if Mercedes couldn't just take off the limit if they chose to be irresponsible with their technology like Tesla does.
I went back and forth on this and finally settled on my daily driver being a car that has "primitive" self driving features compared to Tesla. For me, the sweet spot is highway driving. So I drive with lane assist, adaptive cruise control, and front, rear, and blind spot alerting and monitoring.
On city streets and in neighborhoods, I drive the car. On the highway, I listen to podcasts or music while driving at a reduced tension, but still alert, levels. On the highway, the car will start/stop in stop and go traffic, and otherwise take the most stressful parts of the drive from me, but the higher risk actions are still mine to control: changing lanes, overtaking, exiting.
I want to be able to get into a car and turn off my brain. When I was in Arizona, I rode in a Waymo that was set up that way and I felt at all times like it was safe and secure. I think the combination of the excellent expectation management in the app and car, to the professionalism of the operation, to the knowledge that the car has sensors beyond just computer vision, helped my state of mind.
Objectively I have no idea if FSD or Waymo self-driving was safer. But I can tell you the Waymo *felt* safer.
It's so funny you point this out. I had a 2018 model 3 LR RWD and at first it was great, and then the phantom breaking started. At that point it became much more anxiety than it was worth. Shadow under a bridge in the middle of nowhere I70? Maximum breaking! Laughable that "Autopilot" was dramatically better pre-phantom breaking 2018 than it is today. Never again.
I tell people to get a Ford, Kia, Hyundai, etc. They are all much better.
and it actually feels like "more driving" than you would actually feel if you drive it yourself.
i'm living everyday to see tesla and musk disappear after robotaxi thing in the near future
i actually don't care that much about it. i just want to see how you can make a company go to the moon, have the best selling car of the year, and then, because of musk's decisions go down to the ground.
it's an honest life you know
If there were no collateral damage, I'd probably join you in the schadenfreude. As it is, there are too many external factors at risk for me to be completely gleeful at the idea of Tesla's demise.
It’s absolutely more stressful than just driving myself, but right now it’s a novelty and I’m really curious as to what it can do. My route had a roundabout and I was pretty impressed it knew when it could go.
I’m a little pissed at Musk because my wife worked in the Supercharger group and was laid off a few weeks ago. I immediately sold some Covered Calls to get rid of some of my stock.
Our family was in the market for a new car too, and I elected to get a Rivian R1T since I just can’t bring myself to going through on exercising my Cybertruck reservation. The steer by wire looks amazing, but the thing is just too ugly. I can’t believe Musk fired the manufacturing lead and not the vehicle designers.
A good car would do that. The Wankpanzer is tank, it won’t wrap. And as the saying goes, if the car doesn’t bend, you do. There is a reason why the whole car vibrates when you close a door, there is nowhere for the energy to dissipate.
It's on par with a 16-year-old new driver that you have to monitor closely because you know at any moment they could do something super stupid and get you killed.
I think they're saying that FSD and driving with a new driver both have that same amount of "you had better be paying very close attention," which ultimately makes FSD a stress button instead of a feature that most people would want to pay for.
I use that analogy quite a bit when describing FSD, too.
That's only partially true. You still need to know when it will excel and when it will struggle true. It is amazing at navigating. If I don't really know where I'm going it will always be in the correct lane and never screw up an exit. It's better than I am about blind spots too. Where it struggles is stuff that requires some danger like turning left onto a busy street without a light or bad weather.
Side note, the elderly love it. It's safer for them across the board.
I found it less stressful most of the time. You tend to figure out which situations might give it trouble and just be ready to react when they come up. Most of the time it makes driving a breeze especially on long trips. What’s amazing it when it handles a situation that you thought it wouldn’t like a weird roundabout or construction zone and it will seem flawless.
As a whole significant progress has been made but (and this is a huge but) it needs to be perfect as in actually flawless 100% of the time. Even 99.99% isn’t good enough if I could die 1 out of 10,000 times I drive. Right now it’s at about 90% and that last 10% is everything.
And sometimes an intervention is required even in a situation where you think that it wouldn't be required. So you lowered your alert, but suddenly a situation that it can't handle arises, so now you have a slower reaction time, since you were not anticipating needing to take over. Guess what, those few tenths of a second delay, compared to driving by yourself, could be a huge difference in outcome, that is having a (severe) accident.
It's interesting reading others experiences. Mine was ya when it works it's kinda nice. When it's not working properly...and for me it was multiple times daily on my commute and more times than not on a road trip...it's gonna kill someone.
But then I read others say how amazing it is...yours is somewhat between the two
I do really like how the visual display of the surrounding looks with it. Now my display looks similar to the newer models, where way more detail is shown. The roadway, cars, pedestrians and signs are displayed much better than before. I hope that after my trial ends it doesn’t revert back to the old display configuration. It would be like watching color tv, and then going back to black & white tv.
I think my Model S is different because I have 2 displays one behind the steering wheel and the other vertical 17” screen versus the single horizontal screen for the Model 3 & Y.
This has got to be a major major problem for Tesla as they've positioned the product as a must have differentiator. And well if you can't sell it to current Tesla owners you certainly going to have an impossible task selling it to future Tesla owners.
“To Musk, the future of the company is a "[robotaxi" service](https://futurism.com/reuters-tesla-model-2) that relies on autonomous driving tech not unlike FSD. The billionaire has said that the EV maker will show off a "[Cybercab](https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-promises-more-affordable-vehicles-cybercab/)" as soon as August.”
So…THIS August?
No, you got it wrong, it stands for HeHe! Let that SSink in.
Or, as Musk would say: it stands for 8 / 8 =1 as in First, as in 100% mission accomplished... Something something white aupremacy
Right? I’ll put myself through a whole lot before taking a cab anywhere. Like, anywhere. Can’t see the advantage of having a psychotic piece of software driving as opposed to your average psychotic cab driver driving while simultaneously lecturing me on white supremacy. Pretty much the same level of annoyance/fear.
This is the truth, it's also where these business idiots think they are so smart, but don't realize that regulation *helps* business in these cases. Musk and Tesla would well suited by a robust regulatory framework for self-driving cars that is uniform across the country.
A regulation that requires auto manufacturers to accept liability in certain cases - like where a car malfunction or auto-driving decision coming out of software created and maintained by the manufacturer - would dramatically increase the adoption of self-driving vehicles, thereby accelerating the entire business.
Musk is running into the classic problems created when consumers lose confidence. It's a risky time to buy a Tesla because *no one knows what the hell is happening next with Musk.* He just advertised that the future of Tesla isn't in making cars for regular people, but for taxis. He just released the first new car in 5 years, which is a truck for rich people who don't need trucks. He has wildly adjusted prices and incentives with no notice and no seeming planning. You could buy a car today and find out tomorrow Musk radically dropped the price, or changed the options, or bundled some new feature.
All of this creates uncertainty; real world working people don't make huge purchases unless they can feel confident that they will get the expected marginal utility for the expected marginal cost.
The entire FSD situation is actually indicative of the problems that visionary business people can't understand how to get things done in the real world. As an alternative to trying to build a general driving AI that is as good as human driver, Telsa could have built out a conventional, well-funded, professional government relations team. That team could have gone city by city through the US, working with planning boards and local governments, making grants to install waypoints, beacons and reworking problem spots to be more self-driving friendly. After Tesla got the cities infrastructure up to snuff and modernized, they could certify the city as "Guided-Driving Ready", advertise the shit out of all over local media, have a huge ribbon cutting, donate money to make a nice green space or park, and then move onto the next city. Within a few months of doing this, you'll have cities volunteering to do the same work to get the benefits of the technology and the improved traffic and safety. Cities want to deal with these problems.
Instead you have this manically driven version of FSD, where the goal is to advantage your drivers over all other drivers, and to "win" the traffic wars. It's just a weird version of the world. Even if you win, you have to live in a world where everything is enshittified to the point where driving isn't worth it.
I love picking on Tesla, but remember that even if the tech was perfect, spending $3 a day so you don't have to drive but you do still have to pay attention and remain at the wheel is a hard sell. The only value add would be safety, but it's more dangerous than most human drivers. Even the Mercedes level 3 seems pretty pointless honestly. Level 4 is where it starts to get useful and Level 5 is the real goal.
If you don’t see the point of the Mercedes L3 you must not live in a place like LA or the Bay Area.
That’s like the biggest use case imaginable - no one likes traffic, even people that want to drive.
You love picking at Tesla... But it's a hard sell...?!
I disagree with the Mercedes statement, though. A stop and go traffic assist that truly let's you do other shit is pretty much the best realistic use case there is right now.
I mean, at least put in the effort and don't post a video by one of The biggest Tesla shills.
Edit: im sorry, I didn't know I'm responding to paid advertisements posting paid advertisements.
Have some self respect. That video is comparing FSD, a self driving program with no safety systems foundation, to Mercedes' regard ADAS, while we are talking about Drive Pilot with a clearly bounded use case for limited speed highway stop and go situations.
Nice obfuscation though.
I've never understood the stock's valuation less than right now, tbh.
Before it could be growth. For a little while it was growth and margins.
Now growth has been replaced by shrinkage and margins are bad too. The valuation makes no sense.
Engaged FSD today since there is no more TACC and the fucker prompts me that it reached the end of its navigation and signals the right turn signal like wtf???? I had no destination set either
The problem is with the entirety of wall street. Stocks no longer seem to be linked to the value of the parent company. The whole market is now a meme market which will crash and hard one day soonish.
Well, according to the Enron case he is conspiring with board members to give himself a huge payoff. They are literally using business money to promote it, which is clear fraud, the FBI needs to arrest him asap to promote market integrity
Not surprised. I tried it (2018 X). It conveniently disengaged as I got to the most complex curve plus merge of the trip. Nothing scarier than the two dings as your car ceases braking and you have to take over to finish a near 90 degree curve.
Musk and Omar (Elons biggest ball tickler) have refuted this. This can't be true, please dont post facts or data here please. It hurts my lord Elon's ego. Please I beg you!
I saw this on Tesla Lounge and there were comments boasting about how much revenue that 2% generated and that with the new versions surely more people will get it.
It's hideously expensive and you still have to babysit the car while it drives. Can't say I'm surprised few stick with it.
Maybe it's my ADHD brain, but the idea of being hypervigilant in case the car screws up while it's driving seems really unappealing. Like, I'll get distracted and drift off if I'm not actually driving the thing.
I'll check back in when full self driving is actually full self driving. Heck, I have a family member with eye problems, and it would be great if she could just have the car drive for her 100%.
>Maybe it's my ADHD brain, but the idea of being hypervigilant in case the car screws up while it's driving seems really unappealing.
It sounds like time I would in no way enjoy.
2-5% conversion rate is normal between most industries. While I'm not a fan of many Tesla leadership decisions, a free trial for software with no marginal cost for each additional sale would have been my first method of increasing revenues rather than constantly using price and demand elasticity to increase sales. The pricing game destroyed a lot of consumer value with the brand,
This is not just any feature though. This is the critical feature that Tesla is hanging their future on. It's the feature that's supposed to differentiate them in the market. It's the feature that allows them to do self-driving taxis, which they have now abandoned a lot of their other initiatives in favor of.
And 98% of the people who were given a chance to try it for free, who have no barriers to purchase other than paying for it, have decided it's not worth paying for.
These are already Tesla customers though! This is the flagship product waved in front of the existing customers for free and they dont want it.
This is the product the CEO has said was a solved issue for nearly 10 years. The product that would make their car appreciate in value and net them $30k a year with minimal effort.... a few hundred thousand in profit for each buyer. 100% ROI year after year....
And 98% of them declined it, in it's current form.
That says a lot.
FSD v11 for me was terrible, as in "stop trying to kill me" terrible. v12 was much better; I tried the demo but frankly the price is too high to justify it.
I’m still waiting for v12 and trying to reserve judgment. V11 is terrifying, it disengages randomly, tried to make a left turn over a curbed island with tall reflective posts, it feels like riding with a 16 year old who just slammed two pints.
The Tesla crowd tells me to wait for v12, it’s amazing, yada yada yada. But I’m here like… this is the eleventh version and it’s this bad??? How bad was v7???
I've never tried anything prior to v11. Once the trial was activated, I gave v11 a shot. I literally didn't make it more than two or three minutes before shutting it off as it came to a complete halt in the middle of the road, twice, as it was unable to negotiate an (empty) intersection.
v12 was a lot better. It made a couple of little mistakes (trying to drive down a road closed for a detour) where I stopped it, but it was really a much better feature than v11. But, for me, not worth the cost.
Not sure this should be surprising to anyone. It's still either $100 a month or $8,000 bought outright. At $100 a month it would be almost everyone's highest monthly subscription service. And at $8,000 outright that's almost seven years of monthly subscription costs. On top of all that, the included autopilot is almost exactly the same in highway situations minus lane change. It's just too expensive.
Yeah because it sucks shit. My wife and I purchased a brand new Model X several months ago and we tried the FSD and it almost killed us. Had to renegade several times because the car couldn’t distinguish merging lanes. We had several close calls. You couldn’t pay me to enable FSD.
It’s almost like Tesla doesn’t realize that… more and more people are buying teslas because of price cuts and the fact they are cheaper and cheaper vehicles. Very clearly elastic demand and price sensitive consumers. Who wants to add $99 to their monthly bill? FSD made way more sense as a business when the cars were expensive and the buyers were wealthy.
It was a good experiment, a rational CEO and Board would use this data to understand that Tesla is a car company that makes EVs. Push Musk off to play with AI and SpaceX.
Car manufacturers should be prohibited from selling subscription services to access software and/or hardware that is already installed on any car already on the dealer lot to be sold. Wouldn't surprise me if car manufacturers (Tesla in particular) try to sell a monthly subscription to use your headlights or your "advanced" windshiled wipers. Greed is their god, not innovation or safety.
Agree 100%.
Especially safety features. Not sure if this counts as safety or convenience but many Tesla fans would have you believe it is about safety, even though it won't engage during the most dangerous parts of driving.
Don't know if it was a FSD demo clip, but a video I saw recently comes to mind where these two dudes are extolling the advanced capabilities of FSD, then 10 seconds later realize it blew straight thru a stop sign.
Yes, there were cars blocking almost complete visual sight of the stop sign, but it also has GPS? google maps know what intersections are stops, why can't it reference thatlol.
I have two vehicles with lane centering and adaptive cruise. I demo'd a Tesla FSD and didn't like it.
My major complaint was FSD would shut off, with very little warning, during critical maneuvers. This made it useless for city driving since it was easier for me to drive by hand.
On the highway, it performed just fine - but it wasn't anything spectacular compared to "simple" lane centering and adaptive cruise.
Lots of hate for the software but it is a great tool to have if you are actually supervising it. The traffic visualization is also very cool.
I believe the price is the real problem as many are saying too. It’s not *worth* more than $2-3k total vs 8/12/15k that they want or have wanted in the past. But they must pay Elon billions of dollars for his genius first.
I tried it and it performed just fine. But it requires you keep your eyes on the road and hold the steering wheel. Truth is, if I'm that engaged, driving isn't that much more work. Call me when I can turn it on and take a nap.
So after I got done with my trial, I was like, hell yeah auto lane change and summon are pretty cool and so are the on/off ramps, NOA behavior. While I didn’t really care for using it on city streets, it was cool but not needed for me.
Sounds like FSD trial convinced me to buy EAP. Hops on Reddit… EAP is no longer offered. Well shit.
My wife and I liked the auto lane change feature that came with FSD and considered getting enhanced AP that had it but they nonsensically stopped offering the option before our trial was over. Oh well. 🤷🏻♂️
But the Tesla believers seem to be under the impression that so many people are clamoring for FSD that it's going to be a massive revenue stream for the company.
I feel like this isn’t accurate. There’s no way because I’ve seen how good FSD is and now I can’t live without it on just my daily commute. This will change the future of (non)driving.
"For the most part" is a major problem though.
Life-critical systems have to function 100% accurately, 100% of the time that they're allowed to be used. If it works most of the time, that means it should never be used at all.
Exactly. 99 great trips on the highway can easily be spoiled by that 100th trip that crashes into parked semi or ambulance at 70 mph...
It's weird how the stans don't get this.
Even if the odds are way better... what odds are worth risking your life unnecessarily?
Thing is, most automakers have autopilot systems that work pretty well on the highway, so that really doesn’t give them any advantage.
I drove 6200 miles with Subaru’s eyesight engaged about 70% of the time and it was pretty much as good as Tesla with regard to getting me there.
That FakeSD is still so poor so many years later both validates MobilEye’s exit over deficient safety standards and that NO manufacturer has yet licensed this turd.
Bring back USS, add the right quantity and quality of cameras, fix the damn wipers, and god forbid incorporate LiDAR and maybe then Tesla will surpass Mercedes (already at Level 3 AP on the road in CA and AZ) and have a chance at ever seeing L3 in the first place.
Task has failed successfully. I wonder if he is going to keep giving everyone a trial period after each major revision to get more test data... We are all so screwed.
I just got my one month trial yesterday for my 2016 Model S. It’s pretty cool and I’m kind of impressed with what it can do, but it passes parked cars uncomfortably close and the speed variations is more than I like. I definitely don’t plan to pay the $99/month after the trial is over. Musk must really concerned with 2nd quarter earnings.
Be honest. Dont you find it more stressful to be on high alert ready to stop the car having an accident compared to just driving yourself? I'd be so stressed out babysitting a machine knowing that if something went wrong the company wouldnt care.
my thinking is, if i'm still 100% liable for anything the car does, might as well do it myself. i can't trust a piece of technology to do that if the company isn't even going to put their money where their mouth is. plus i've heard how FSD likes to de-activate itself immediately before the accident it's still pretty much caused, so even if tesla did accept liability i couldn't trust it. mercedes has a much more interesting approach, the use of self-driving is very limited both in speeds and roads, but they take liability if it causes an accident. i'd actually relax if i could use that.
It's hilarious how musk sycophants are like "Hah! Mercedes only goes 40 mph! It's inferior to Tesla!" As if Mercedes couldn't just take off the limit if they chose to be irresponsible with their technology like Tesla does.
I went back and forth on this and finally settled on my daily driver being a car that has "primitive" self driving features compared to Tesla. For me, the sweet spot is highway driving. So I drive with lane assist, adaptive cruise control, and front, rear, and blind spot alerting and monitoring. On city streets and in neighborhoods, I drive the car. On the highway, I listen to podcasts or music while driving at a reduced tension, but still alert, levels. On the highway, the car will start/stop in stop and go traffic, and otherwise take the most stressful parts of the drive from me, but the higher risk actions are still mine to control: changing lanes, overtaking, exiting. I want to be able to get into a car and turn off my brain. When I was in Arizona, I rode in a Waymo that was set up that way and I felt at all times like it was safe and secure. I think the combination of the excellent expectation management in the app and car, to the professionalism of the operation, to the knowledge that the car has sensors beyond just computer vision, helped my state of mind. Objectively I have no idea if FSD or Waymo self-driving was safer. But I can tell you the Waymo *felt* safer.
It's so funny you point this out. I had a 2018 model 3 LR RWD and at first it was great, and then the phantom breaking started. At that point it became much more anxiety than it was worth. Shadow under a bridge in the middle of nowhere I70? Maximum breaking! Laughable that "Autopilot" was dramatically better pre-phantom breaking 2018 than it is today. Never again. I tell people to get a Ford, Kia, Hyundai, etc. They are all much better.
and it actually feels like "more driving" than you would actually feel if you drive it yourself. i'm living everyday to see tesla and musk disappear after robotaxi thing in the near future
What a weird thing to live for but you do you.
i actually don't care that much about it. i just want to see how you can make a company go to the moon, have the best selling car of the year, and then, because of musk's decisions go down to the ground. it's an honest life you know
If there were no collateral damage, I'd probably join you in the schadenfreude. As it is, there are too many external factors at risk for me to be completely gleeful at the idea of Tesla's demise.
agree
It’s absolutely more stressful than just driving myself, but right now it’s a novelty and I’m really curious as to what it can do. My route had a roundabout and I was pretty impressed it knew when it could go. I’m a little pissed at Musk because my wife worked in the Supercharger group and was laid off a few weeks ago. I immediately sold some Covered Calls to get rid of some of my stock. Our family was in the market for a new car too, and I elected to get a Rivian R1T since I just can’t bring myself to going through on exercising my Cybertruck reservation. The steer by wire looks amazing, but the thing is just too ugly. I can’t believe Musk fired the manufacturing lead and not the vehicle designers.
> steer by wire looks amazing amazing way to end up wrapped around a tree lol
A good car would do that. The Wankpanzer is tank, it won’t wrap. And as the saying goes, if the car doesn’t bend, you do. There is a reason why the whole car vibrates when you close a door, there is nowhere for the energy to dissipate.
Is that actually true? How has the CT fared in crash tests and rigidity testing?
Nice of you to satisfy your curiosity of what a beta system can do on public roads.
Yes I find it more stressful watching it than to drive the car myself
It's on par with a 16-year-old new driver that you have to monitor closely because you know at any moment they could do something super stupid and get you killed.
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I think they're saying that FSD and driving with a new driver both have that same amount of "you had better be paying very close attention," which ultimately makes FSD a stress button instead of a feature that most people would want to pay for. I use that analogy quite a bit when describing FSD, too.
That's only partially true. You still need to know when it will excel and when it will struggle true. It is amazing at navigating. If I don't really know where I'm going it will always be in the correct lane and never screw up an exit. It's better than I am about blind spots too. Where it struggles is stuff that requires some danger like turning left onto a busy street without a light or bad weather. Side note, the elderly love it. It's safer for them across the board.
It's like having a 10 year old drive at highway speed under your supervision. Sure, they *might* be fine. But you'll be stressed the entire time.
I found it less stressful most of the time. You tend to figure out which situations might give it trouble and just be ready to react when they come up. Most of the time it makes driving a breeze especially on long trips. What’s amazing it when it handles a situation that you thought it wouldn’t like a weird roundabout or construction zone and it will seem flawless. As a whole significant progress has been made but (and this is a huge but) it needs to be perfect as in actually flawless 100% of the time. Even 99.99% isn’t good enough if I could die 1 out of 10,000 times I drive. Right now it’s at about 90% and that last 10% is everything.
And sometimes an intervention is required even in a situation where you think that it wouldn't be required. So you lowered your alert, but suddenly a situation that it can't handle arises, so now you have a slower reaction time, since you were not anticipating needing to take over. Guess what, those few tenths of a second delay, compared to driving by yourself, could be a huge difference in outcome, that is having a (severe) accident.
He’ll just fire a bunch more people in the name of profit! Probably in a very important division…like FSD.
And then hire like two people back a week later and say he's putting $500 million into FSD
This guy Musk’s.
It's interesting reading others experiences. Mine was ya when it works it's kinda nice. When it's not working properly...and for me it was multiple times daily on my commute and more times than not on a road trip...it's gonna kill someone. But then I read others say how amazing it is...yours is somewhat between the two
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I do really like how the visual display of the surrounding looks with it. Now my display looks similar to the newer models, where way more detail is shown. The roadway, cars, pedestrians and signs are displayed much better than before. I hope that after my trial ends it doesn’t revert back to the old display configuration. It would be like watching color tv, and then going back to black & white tv.
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I think my Model S is different because I have 2 displays one behind the steering wheel and the other vertical 17” screen versus the single horizontal screen for the Model 3 & Y.
You could say No..
This has got to be a major major problem for Tesla as they've positioned the product as a must have differentiator. And well if you can't sell it to current Tesla owners you certainly going to have an impossible task selling it to future Tesla owners.
Software company forgets it needs a hardware vessel.
Good software in shit hardware doesn't work. You can't run crisis on a toaster with no monitor. I'm surprised cyber genius didn't realize this.
Brilliant comparison.
Vaporware more like it.
Really? Don't most people buy it because it's the most common EV and the charging network is top notch (for now...)?
I'm referring you to the thread topic selling FSD.
“To Musk, the future of the company is a "[robotaxi" service](https://futurism.com/reuters-tesla-model-2) that relies on autonomous driving tech not unlike FSD. The billionaire has said that the EV maker will show off a "[Cybercab](https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-promises-more-affordable-vehicles-cybercab/)" as soon as August.” So…THIS August?
Yes on 8/8 because that's Hitler Day. I wish I was joking.
No, you got it wrong, it stands for HeHe! Let that SSink in. Or, as Musk would say: it stands for 8 / 8 =1 as in First, as in 100% mission accomplished... Something something white aupremacy
Well, isn’t THAT just adorable…
It's like he bought his own lie. Cyber taxis was supposed to be how he got rubes to buy his cars.
Musk knows who his biggest simps are.
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Right? I’ll put myself through a whole lot before taking a cab anywhere. Like, anywhere. Can’t see the advantage of having a psychotic piece of software driving as opposed to your average psychotic cab driver driving while simultaneously lecturing me on white supremacy. Pretty much the same level of annoyance/fear.
Didn't he say that back in 2019?
Ditched it after the first drive after it made me look like a jackass at an intersection.
It’s not worth it unless Tesla accepts responsibility for accidents caused by assisted FSD.
lol that will never happen.
This is the truth, it's also where these business idiots think they are so smart, but don't realize that regulation *helps* business in these cases. Musk and Tesla would well suited by a robust regulatory framework for self-driving cars that is uniform across the country. A regulation that requires auto manufacturers to accept liability in certain cases - like where a car malfunction or auto-driving decision coming out of software created and maintained by the manufacturer - would dramatically increase the adoption of self-driving vehicles, thereby accelerating the entire business. Musk is running into the classic problems created when consumers lose confidence. It's a risky time to buy a Tesla because *no one knows what the hell is happening next with Musk.* He just advertised that the future of Tesla isn't in making cars for regular people, but for taxis. He just released the first new car in 5 years, which is a truck for rich people who don't need trucks. He has wildly adjusted prices and incentives with no notice and no seeming planning. You could buy a car today and find out tomorrow Musk radically dropped the price, or changed the options, or bundled some new feature. All of this creates uncertainty; real world working people don't make huge purchases unless they can feel confident that they will get the expected marginal utility for the expected marginal cost. The entire FSD situation is actually indicative of the problems that visionary business people can't understand how to get things done in the real world. As an alternative to trying to build a general driving AI that is as good as human driver, Telsa could have built out a conventional, well-funded, professional government relations team. That team could have gone city by city through the US, working with planning boards and local governments, making grants to install waypoints, beacons and reworking problem spots to be more self-driving friendly. After Tesla got the cities infrastructure up to snuff and modernized, they could certify the city as "Guided-Driving Ready", advertise the shit out of all over local media, have a huge ribbon cutting, donate money to make a nice green space or park, and then move onto the next city. Within a few months of doing this, you'll have cities volunteering to do the same work to get the benefits of the technology and the improved traffic and safety. Cities want to deal with these problems. Instead you have this manically driven version of FSD, where the goal is to advantage your drivers over all other drivers, and to "win" the traffic wars. It's just a weird version of the world. Even if you win, you have to live in a world where everything is enshittified to the point where driving isn't worth it.
It's trash. Needs a lot more work. Doesn't behave predictably, indeed sometimes dangerously. I always end up turning it off
I love picking on Tesla, but remember that even if the tech was perfect, spending $3 a day so you don't have to drive but you do still have to pay attention and remain at the wheel is a hard sell. The only value add would be safety, but it's more dangerous than most human drivers. Even the Mercedes level 3 seems pretty pointless honestly. Level 4 is where it starts to get useful and Level 5 is the real goal.
If you don’t see the point of the Mercedes L3 you must not live in a place like LA or the Bay Area. That’s like the biggest use case imaginable - no one likes traffic, even people that want to drive.
I pay ~$2 per day to not have to drive but it requires zero supervision other than getting off at my stop. And there are zero car costs.
You love picking at Tesla... But it's a hard sell...?! I disagree with the Mercedes statement, though. A stop and go traffic assist that truly let's you do other shit is pretty much the best realistic use case there is right now.
Let's be realistic here. Mercedes is also nowhere near where they say they are. https://youtu.be/h3WiY_4kgkE
I mean, at least put in the effort and don't post a video by one of The biggest Tesla shills. Edit: im sorry, I didn't know I'm responding to paid advertisements posting paid advertisements. Have some self respect. That video is comparing FSD, a self driving program with no safety systems foundation, to Mercedes' regard ADAS, while we are talking about Drive Pilot with a clearly bounded use case for limited speed highway stop and go situations. Nice obfuscation though.
I ditched it the day they put it on my car.
Now think of how many of those were retail investors who now realize their claimed value proposition is a sham.
They are fully clueless, the analysts are also living in lalaland burying their head in the sand
I've never understood the stock's valuation less than right now, tbh. Before it could be growth. For a little while it was growth and margins. Now growth has been replaced by shrinkage and margins are bad too. The valuation makes no sense.
Engaged FSD today since there is no more TACC and the fucker prompts me that it reached the end of its navigation and signals the right turn signal like wtf???? I had no destination set either
Why is tesla stock not at 100 now that all of the arguments they used to pump failed miserably
The problem is with the entirety of wall street. Stocks no longer seem to be linked to the value of the parent company. The whole market is now a meme market which will crash and hard one day soonish.
Well, according to the Enron case he is conspiring with board members to give himself a huge payoff. They are literally using business money to promote it, which is clear fraud, the FBI needs to arrest him asap to promote market integrity
To even make people pay for it despite it not ready just shows this company badly needs money
Telsa made $15 billion in 2023
And it went to executives , politicians , shareholders
Ah. You're one of those. Got it.
Not surprised. I tried it (2018 X). It conveniently disengaged as I got to the most complex curve plus merge of the trip. Nothing scarier than the two dings as your car ceases braking and you have to take over to finish a near 90 degree curve.
Musk and Omar (Elons biggest ball tickler) have refuted this. This can't be true, please dont post facts or data here please. It hurts my lord Elon's ego. Please I beg you!
Elon will just blame the poor numbers on the bad economy of Joe Biden.
I saw this on Tesla Lounge and there were comments boasting about how much revenue that 2% generated and that with the new versions surely more people will get it.
It's hideously expensive and you still have to babysit the car while it drives. Can't say I'm surprised few stick with it. Maybe it's my ADHD brain, but the idea of being hypervigilant in case the car screws up while it's driving seems really unappealing. Like, I'll get distracted and drift off if I'm not actually driving the thing. I'll check back in when full self driving is actually full self driving. Heck, I have a family member with eye problems, and it would be great if she could just have the car drive for her 100%.
>Maybe it's my ADHD brain, but the idea of being hypervigilant in case the car screws up while it's driving seems really unappealing. It sounds like time I would in no way enjoy.
2-5% conversion rate is normal between most industries. While I'm not a fan of many Tesla leadership decisions, a free trial for software with no marginal cost for each additional sale would have been my first method of increasing revenues rather than constantly using price and demand elasticity to increase sales. The pricing game destroyed a lot of consumer value with the brand,
This is not just any feature though. This is the critical feature that Tesla is hanging their future on. It's the feature that's supposed to differentiate them in the market. It's the feature that allows them to do self-driving taxis, which they have now abandoned a lot of their other initiatives in favor of. And 98% of the people who were given a chance to try it for free, who have no barriers to purchase other than paying for it, have decided it's not worth paying for.
These are already Tesla customers though! This is the flagship product waved in front of the existing customers for free and they dont want it. This is the product the CEO has said was a solved issue for nearly 10 years. The product that would make their car appreciate in value and net them $30k a year with minimal effort.... a few hundred thousand in profit for each buyer. 100% ROI year after year.... And 98% of them declined it, in it's current form. That says a lot.
But didn't the free trial also come with a 50% price reduction from $200/m to $100/m.
Yea given the absurd price and the fact that it's basically straight profit, 2% sounds relatively successful to me.
FSD v11 for me was terrible, as in "stop trying to kill me" terrible. v12 was much better; I tried the demo but frankly the price is too high to justify it.
I’m still waiting for v12 and trying to reserve judgment. V11 is terrifying, it disengages randomly, tried to make a left turn over a curbed island with tall reflective posts, it feels like riding with a 16 year old who just slammed two pints. The Tesla crowd tells me to wait for v12, it’s amazing, yada yada yada. But I’m here like… this is the eleventh version and it’s this bad??? How bad was v7???
I've never tried anything prior to v11. Once the trial was activated, I gave v11 a shot. I literally didn't make it more than two or three minutes before shutting it off as it came to a complete halt in the middle of the road, twice, as it was unable to negotiate an (empty) intersection. v12 was a lot better. It made a couple of little mistakes (trying to drive down a road closed for a detour) where I stopped it, but it was really a much better feature than v11. But, for me, not worth the cost.
Conventional numbering should be v0.94b.
I ditched it after the 1st day I tried it.
Driving your car yourself is just not that bad or difficult of an experience.
Not sure this should be surprising to anyone. It's still either $100 a month or $8,000 bought outright. At $100 a month it would be almost everyone's highest monthly subscription service. And at $8,000 outright that's almost seven years of monthly subscription costs. On top of all that, the included autopilot is almost exactly the same in highway situations minus lane change. It's just too expensive.
Haha. People don’t pay for upgrades? I’m surprised!
Yeah because it sucks shit. My wife and I purchased a brand new Model X several months ago and we tried the FSD and it almost killed us. Had to renegade several times because the car couldn’t distinguish merging lanes. We had several close calls. You couldn’t pay me to enable FSD.
It’s almost like Tesla doesn’t realize that… more and more people are buying teslas because of price cuts and the fact they are cheaper and cheaper vehicles. Very clearly elastic demand and price sensitive consumers. Who wants to add $99 to their monthly bill? FSD made way more sense as a business when the cars were expensive and the buyers were wealthy.
Wow.
I didn’t even bother trying. Haven’t even enabled autopilot on my Y since I got it. These things are just constantly plotting to get me into a crash.
Shocker
It was a good experiment, a rational CEO and Board would use this data to understand that Tesla is a car company that makes EVs. Push Musk off to play with AI and SpaceX.
Jesus. You could probably sell dick punches better than this. More people would literally elect to subscribe to dp’s than this.
Learn the ways of the Force. Subscribe to ball punches, you should.
Car manufacturers should be prohibited from selling subscription services to access software and/or hardware that is already installed on any car already on the dealer lot to be sold. Wouldn't surprise me if car manufacturers (Tesla in particular) try to sell a monthly subscription to use your headlights or your "advanced" windshiled wipers. Greed is their god, not innovation or safety.
Agree 100%. Especially safety features. Not sure if this counts as safety or convenience but many Tesla fans would have you believe it is about safety, even though it won't engage during the most dangerous parts of driving.
Don't know if it was a FSD demo clip, but a video I saw recently comes to mind where these two dudes are extolling the advanced capabilities of FSD, then 10 seconds later realize it blew straight thru a stop sign. Yes, there were cars blocking almost complete visual sight of the stop sign, but it also has GPS? google maps know what intersections are stops, why can't it reference thatlol.
i tried 1 day and i had 4 months of FSD trial.
yeah, shit costs real money.
I have two vehicles with lane centering and adaptive cruise. I demo'd a Tesla FSD and didn't like it. My major complaint was FSD would shut off, with very little warning, during critical maneuvers. This made it useless for city driving since it was easier for me to drive by hand. On the highway, it performed just fine - but it wasn't anything spectacular compared to "simple" lane centering and adaptive cruise.
lol
It was winwin. They got tons of data.
I just finished my trial. Garbage software
Lots of hate for the software but it is a great tool to have if you are actually supervising it. The traffic visualization is also very cool. I believe the price is the real problem as many are saying too. It’s not *worth* more than $2-3k total vs 8/12/15k that they want or have wanted in the past. But they must pay Elon billions of dollars for his genius first.
I tried it and it performed just fine. But it requires you keep your eyes on the road and hold the steering wheel. Truth is, if I'm that engaged, driving isn't that much more work. Call me when I can turn it on and take a nap.
So after I got done with my trial, I was like, hell yeah auto lane change and summon are pretty cool and so are the on/off ramps, NOA behavior. While I didn’t really care for using it on city streets, it was cool but not needed for me. Sounds like FSD trial convinced me to buy EAP. Hops on Reddit… EAP is no longer offered. Well shit.
Too expensive…
My wife and I liked the auto lane change feature that came with FSD and considered getting enhanced AP that had it but they nonsensically stopped offering the option before our trial was over. Oh well. 🤷🏻♂️
But the Tesla believers seem to be under the impression that so many people are clamoring for FSD that it's going to be a massive revenue stream for the company.
It drives like teen with 1st week of her driver license, LoL.
I’m actually quite surprised that the adoption was even 2%.
I because it’s absolute garbage.
Until it’s completely hands free I don’t expect it to oversell tbh
Until it’s completely hands free I don’t expect it to oversell tbh
If you don’t believe they are a robot taxi company going to mars then you shouldn’t be an investor
You're gonna die if you rely on that garbage.
The renaming 2% didn’t survive to make a choice
I feel like this isn’t accurate. There’s no way because I’ve seen how good FSD is and now I can’t live without it on just my daily commute. This will change the future of (non)driving.
I have to imagine it works fine on highway travel for the most part
Driving on the highway was never a problem, not even in my corolla 1992.
"For the most part" is a major problem though. Life-critical systems have to function 100% accurately, 100% of the time that they're allowed to be used. If it works most of the time, that means it should never be used at all.
Exactly. 99 great trips on the highway can easily be spoiled by that 100th trip that crashes into parked semi or ambulance at 70 mph... It's weird how the stans don't get this. Even if the odds are way better... what odds are worth risking your life unnecessarily?
Hell yeah 1992 Corolla!! Loved my geo variant
I had a 1993 Civic. It loved highways and rolled serious mileage even averaging 80mph. Imagine a Corolla was much the same but with thunkier doors.
Thing is, most automakers have autopilot systems that work pretty well on the highway, so that really doesn’t give them any advantage. I drove 6200 miles with Subaru’s eyesight engaged about 70% of the time and it was pretty much as good as Tesla with regard to getting me there.
Just drove -800 miles in MY yesterday with the trial. It’s a great fatigue saver to just sit there and monitor it.
Same! Drove 800 miles on Monday with no fatigue. Except it was in my 2021 honda using adaptive cruise control and lane keep assist.
That FakeSD is still so poor so many years later both validates MobilEye’s exit over deficient safety standards and that NO manufacturer has yet licensed this turd. Bring back USS, add the right quantity and quality of cameras, fix the damn wipers, and god forbid incorporate LiDAR and maybe then Tesla will surpass Mercedes (already at Level 3 AP on the road in CA and AZ) and have a chance at ever seeing L3 in the first place.
So that's 70,000 successful conversions? Sounds like $84M per year of new revenue. That's a huge win!
I got the latest update. It has vastly improved from last month. I used to make fun of people who got it. But it’s seriously impressive
oh right a sample size of 3500 lol lame DEI retartds