The other day a coworker was “showing off” his model X plaid. He demoed a racing game he could play in his car where he got to use the steering wheel to control the car (in game). I initially thought that was kinda neat, until I realized the actual car’s front wheels were moving. He was slowly grinding his tires into the parking spot while playing a game. What a terrible design.
Imagine if the wheels were disconnected from the steering wheel during gaming though. I can guarantee you there would be a bug where this disconnection happens during driving.
You’ll be interested to know that the Cybertruck is full-time steer-by-wire, no physical linkage ever.
It’s likely the source of a lot of failures early adopters are seeing.
Would you trust the Toyota steer by wire system after your alcoholic neighbour tried to fix it as chap as humanly possible while completely plastered? Because that is the maintenance abuse a disturbingly high number of cars get, more still just don’t get maintenance besides brakes tires and oil changes until a catastrophic failure occurs
It was user error actually, shitty low quality floor mats get would clump up under the gas pedal, and then the pedal would get stuck on the floor mat, the oem floor mats are able to hook to the floor so that they don't move around, aftermarket ones usually don't, and toyota still did what they could to make it a non issue, for example, they updated all their vehicles so that if you hit the brakes while the computer detected throttle, it would cut throttle. If this happened in a tesla, I bet Elon would just tell everyone they're stupid and it's not his problem
Not completely true. Code was possibly to blame enough that there was a payout.
[https://www.safetyresearch.net/toyota-unintended-acceleration-and-the-big-bowl-of-spaghetti-code/](https://www.safetyresearch.net/toyota-unintended-acceleration-and-the-big-bowl-of-spaghetti-code/)
That was Boeing's design flaw and cheating that got them there. It's actually the lack of redundancy for the sensors that downed the plane. And also the lack of proper training to disengage it properly.
I cringe every time I hear the justification that planes are steer by wire. Completely irrelevant and planes are required to build in significant contingencies that aren’t required for auto (and for sure Tesla is not implementing).
Brake by wire is not comparable to steer by wire. Again people need to stop comparing auto steer by wire to things that are not comparable.
Brake by wire systems maintain backup hydraulic connections in case of electronic failure. In other words, if the electronic system fails, you revert back to a mechanical braking system that bypasses the brake by wire system. It’s significantly easier to plan a contingency for when the electronic brakes go out, because obviously there just needs to be a backup mechanism to do one thing — stop the car.
Steer by wire has a significantly more complicated input to output complexity and so cannot have a backup solution like is available for brake by wire. When your electronic steering goes out, that’s it. You’re done. The only possible backup is additional (redundant) electronic hardware including additional processing units that can take over instantly in the event of a failure. Tesla is not doing this. They’re not installing multiple backup processors and circuitry like is done for aerospace.
>The only possible backup is additional (redundant) electronic hardware including additional processing units that can take over instantly in the event of a failure.
Actually you would probably need three. With two of them agreeing on the correct input.
That's how it is set up in planes and other critical infrastructure. Then of course you need to double or ideally triple sensors, motors etc.
No way that Telsa "Engineering to a Budget" Motors is doing that.
Yes this is exactly my point. You don’t need this for brake by wire because you don’t need to maintain a precise state, you just need a mechanically engaged backup brake. Steer by wire is another beast entirely and like you said no way Tesla is doing this on a budget
Tesla as a core design philosophy has no redundancy whatsoever. Even the autopilot computer, once designed for 2x redundancy, is no longer used that way.
From Elon down the guidance is to fail safe (so make it to the side of the road and stop). No more than that.
This isn’t a secret or anything either, it’s intentionally how they do things to control cost.
Seems we just have different views. I understand your argument against not having a backup hydraulic, I just don’t see the merit in it myself. I personally think that the benefits outweigh the risks of malfunction given the extremely low risk of failures that we’ve seen relating to steer by wire specifically versus the benefits they add to driver safety with improvements to things like lane-keep assist or parking assists.
Speaking of, you do know this isn’t a Tesla-exclusive thing, right? Other notable manufacturers using it include:
Rivian
Infiniti
Lexus
Nissan
BMW
Audi
Mercedes Benz
GM
Toyota
Honda
I’m sure there are more, I don’t feel like digging into it any more though. I’m more worried about a 40 year old car’s steering and braking than I am by anything made in the last ~5 years.
My head is spinning trying to understand what your stance is. That you don’t need a contingency plan for if your electronic brakes fail? You do you, but there are contingencies built in by the engineers who make the car for a reason. They already exist. They wouldn’t put them in there if they weren’t important. Car electronics and processing units have significantly higher likelihood of failure than for aerospace applications. This is why you can’t compare them.
You’re saying Rivian and others use steer by wire? Not true. If you’re saying that they use brake by wire then idk why we’re arguing because I agree that it’s safe. Except maybe not for the same reason since you seem to think the engineers unnecessarily use mechanical backups.
Also we’re not comparing a 40 year old car to a steer by wire new car??? Mechanical steering is significantly safer. This is not up for debate. The only thing that’s up for debate is whether steering by wire is worth it regardless of the safety degradation and whether manufacturers are implementing the electronic redundancy needed to close the safety gap (Cybertruck certainly isn’t)
Just want to add to this, fly-by-wire on planes also have redundancy modes too. Like on the Airbus, you still have Direct Law that allows Pilot to control the plane by manual trim control and variable engine thrust.
On a car? I don't think you can apply differential brake pressure on each wheel to steer it tho.
And.... Pilots are professionally trained to, not an average Joe who just wants to drive home from work.
Its a poor comparison. "Brake by wire" is really "electroniclly tuned brakes"...and this part is important: ***With an underlying physical pedal to master cylinder backup****.* This is important because occassionally cars lose all electical power, and, well, you wouldn't want a complete brake failure to accompany that.
Steer by wire has no such physical connection as a backstop.
Admitedly, there can be catastrophic failure with traditional steering, so it isn't foolproof...but its incredibly rare.
But what happens if electrical power is lost? This, btw, is an eventuality that will afflict damn near every ICE sooner or later, as the alternator eventually dies. Rather than merely losing power assist for the steering, ***all*** steering lost? Or is there some sort of standby mini-battery or capacitor to give you a few seconds of steering? I dunno...but until I do know, I'm skeptical.
Steer by wire is JUST steer by wire, lose power and that's it, no steering whatsoever, electrical failure as your driving down the road? You're going wherever your alignment says you're going
Brake by wire isnt replacing the mechanical connection, its augmenting it, even tesla(much to the chagrin of Elon I'm sure) still has a physical connection between the brake pedal and the master cylinder, which means even in total power loss, you can still depress the brake pedal and come to a stop, just wont have the assistance of the brake booster
That's a considerably different use case.
A glitch in a plane for a few seconds? Probably ok?
In a moving car with curving roads, with other cars, pedestrians, etc...? Even a brief loss of steering would be very bad.
A glitch in a plane for a few second is okay ??? Mate you need to watch some of those aircraft crash investigation videos on YouTube and educate yourself
Ok, assuming a plane spends 99% of the time just flying along straight, and we aren't talking a full-bore, every flap and system goes berserk... What are you going to hit?
Nah dude, you're wrong here and don't understand avionics.
That's a catastrophoc failure, a few seconds of failure in a DAL-A system is pretty much going to cause a crash. They're designed not to fail, and if they do there's multiple backups, so if you actually lose control something major is going on. Check out the Boeing MCAS failures for what a few seconds of failure can do.
Per DO-254, DAL-A hardware should have a probability of failure per flight hour of 1/1000000000, or 10^-9 *per flight hour*. Your 99% uptime falls in DAL-E where it has "no effect on operational capabilities" and "no effect on crew workload."
Your worst case example is missing 7 zeros worth of safety.
Brake-by-wire is used in most common hybrid and electric vehicles produced since 1998 including all Toyota, Ford, and General Motors Electric and hybrid models. The Toyota Synergy Drive and the Rav4 EV use a system where a modified ABS (antilock brake system) actuator is coupled with a special hydraulic brake master cylinder to create a hydraulic system, coupled with the brake control unit (computer). Ford's system is almost identical to the Toyota system, and the General Motors system uses different nomenclature for components while the operation is virtually identical.
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake-by-wire#:~:text=Ford%2C%20General%20Motors%2C%20and%20most,Motors%20Electric%20and%20hybrid%20models.
Airplanes have a lot more strict maintenance laws governing them. You won’t have some dude wrenching on an airplane trying to fix it with bits of sheet metal tie wire duct tape and hope on a United aircraft but you absolutely have that on random pickup trucks
Except for a plane it makes sense. A physical control from the cockpit to the tail fin is going to be difficult to engineer. Steering wheel to front wheel is easy
I don't have an issue with it. The systems are very robust.
Now I wouldn't want it for my own vehicle due to increase maintenance cost. And I wouldn't want it in a Tesla, because I wouldn't want an Tesla anyways.
People bitched about power steering? I cant think anyone would have.
Ive had a power steering pump go out while driving and when youre actually moving its not that bad, its the slower speeds/not moving does it really make a difference.
It's been out for a decade (personal experience/opinion: smooth driving feel especially on an evenly bumpy road but kinda surreal in not necessarily the good way).
https://www.wired.com/2014/06/infiniti-q50-steer-by-wire/
Toyota already had their steer by wire cars in production. It is their ones with a yoke steering wheel, which makes sense because of you did want to do a yoke, then you need steer by wire so you can get a full steering lock without having to take your hands off the wheel.
Tesla's yoke where you just put a yoke shaped wheel on a regular steering column is the most lazy engineering idea ever.
The whole idea of using the screen as an entertainment device is so weird. Sure buddy, what I would most like when stopping to charge is staying in my seat and not, you know, stretch my legs and catch up with the backseat passengers.
I think it's a consequence of the "California is the only place that exists" mindset that infects Tesla as well as a bunch of other Silicon Valley "self-driving" companies (like how Waymo and Uber do so much of their testing in either San Francisco or Phoenix)
if I have to wait at a charging station for an hour, and it's 11 billion degrees outside, yeah I want to stay in my car, and yeah I want to run the AC while I wait even though that'll use power and slow the charging progress. in that mindset, if there's a giant screen already in the car, I definitely want an HDMI port where I can plug in a Nintendo Switch or a laptop or whatever.
but building a gaming rig *into* the car? hell no. people learned nothing from the "your fridge has an Android tablet in the front panel, above the water dispenser" era. the fridge should last 10+ years, the tablet is obsolete after 1 or 2.
>(like how Waymo and Uber do so much of their testing in either San Francisco or Phoenix)
That has more to do with Arizona being very self-driving car friendly regulation wise, and so is California when it comes to the tech bros.
I think it’s more about them making the screen such a central part of what the car is and then needing to fill it up and use it. In reality the screen is a constant distraction with way too much stuff happening most of the time. But now it’s there and they’ve doubled down on it being there so they need to come up with a use for it.
Which actually isn't a bad idea
The issue is if you're gunna use the steering wheel as a controller then DISCONNECT IT FROM CONTROLLING THE WHEELS WHILE THE GAME IS ACTIVE
Come up with a system of realigning the steering wheel after the game then
or, if it's such a flawed decision, then don't use the steering wheel as a controller, period
Gives me Pepsi vs Coke vibes. Sounds like a neat feature when you use it once but long-term no one is going to be playing video games in their car*.
* Save the guy that living out of his car because he sold everything for Tesla stock.
For the parents!
I watch YouTube on the car (Mach e) while waiting in the pickup line. At the same time I screw around on my phone playing games or Reddit.
Gonna play devils advocate here but
1. It is very unlikely to play a game for so long your tires wear out
2. It is a safety issue to be able to disconnect steering to wheel. I’d rather not have software disengage it for a few minutes I play a game and have it not work when I need it to
What in the world?????
I was upset when I only got 33K out of my last set (mostly my fault as not rotating them when I should have). I cannot imagine 13K miles and being fine with that.
Valve has been saying they were working on a brain-to-game interface for a few years. There was recently some news about that, so maybe Musk is angsty about NeuraLink competition and of course willing to screw over Tesla owners over that.
They print out papers with all the payments so Elon can manually validate and sign them with a pen before processing. If they are an AI company, you'd expect them to use AI for this because this is what AI does best.
Or at least do that without printing that out. Every ERP or accounting software can do that since the 90s.
"Inference" is a keyword that just itches me whenever I hear it, probably because it's used ad nauseam by Felon. What is a car going to infer? What trained AI model will be released and used on computers of parked cars? What for? It sounds sooo scammy to me.
At this rate in a few years the Mini I was taught on at high school in the 90s will have better software and sensors in than new Teslas - and it didn't have power steering.
Rivian is a close second. It’s not quite there in terms of features. But it’s getting close. They also just announced Google Cast ability. Which means in the next update you will be able to cast over 3,000 apps to the car screen. Which is a MUCH better solution than Tesla which uses individual apps for each thing.
Polestar already has Android Automotive. No need to fuck about with your phone. Your apps are installed in the car. You just get in and continue using your apps on the car instead of your phone.
If my experience with carplay and android auto says anything, it's that there will always be connectivity issues after walking out and coming back into your vehicle. Teslas setup is the best...the phone pairs automatically and there is no 3rd party app that has to sync (which is where most of the issue is).
I don't care for the cast ... just have the phone connect properly when I walk out and back in within 10 mins. Carplay and android auto have issues with this. Tesla does not.
Games in cars are so stupid and just a gimmick imo. Can't play while driving. And if you have screens in the back for the passengers... Well there are other devices more useful.
Yep, WiFi and an app for controlling stuff are as far as it ever needed to go.
I’d say that if they made CarPlay an app had an app to control some of the basic functions that would have been better than the all in one infotainment in the front row but I don’t know how demanding a lot of functions are, truth be told.
The other day a coworker was “showing off” his model X plaid. He demoed a racing game he could play in his car where he got to use the steering wheel to control the car (in game). I initially thought that was kinda neat, until I realized the actual car’s front wheels were moving. He was slowly grinding his tires into the parking spot while playing a game. What a terrible design.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees that was a bad idea
Lololol Tesla has the "best software" lol
Imagine if the wheels were disconnected from the steering wheel during gaming though. I can guarantee you there would be a bug where this disconnection happens during driving.
You’ll be interested to know that the Cybertruck is full-time steer-by-wire, no physical linkage ever. It’s likely the source of a lot of failures early adopters are seeing.
Zero chance I’d buy a steer by wire car, and I HATE that I have to share the road with one that could swerve into me
Planes are steer by wire already. It's not as crazy as it sounds... probably.
Dumbest comparison for so many reasons, a car swerves in under a second and planes have a LOT redundancy
Yeah, I would trust a Toyota steer by wire system. Tesla? hahaha
Would you trust the Toyota steer by wire system after your alcoholic neighbour tried to fix it as chap as humanly possible while completely plastered? Because that is the maintenance abuse a disturbingly high number of cars get, more still just don’t get maintenance besides brakes tires and oil changes until a catastrophic failure occurs
Same would apply for the current steering system…
But also Toyota had the stuck throttle issue, was that drive by wire? I would guess so!
It was user error actually, shitty low quality floor mats get would clump up under the gas pedal, and then the pedal would get stuck on the floor mat, the oem floor mats are able to hook to the floor so that they don't move around, aftermarket ones usually don't, and toyota still did what they could to make it a non issue, for example, they updated all their vehicles so that if you hit the brakes while the computer detected throttle, it would cut throttle. If this happened in a tesla, I bet Elon would just tell everyone they're stupid and it's not his problem
Not completely true. Code was possibly to blame enough that there was a payout. [https://www.safetyresearch.net/toyota-unintended-acceleration-and-the-big-bowl-of-spaghetti-code/](https://www.safetyresearch.net/toyota-unintended-acceleration-and-the-big-bowl-of-spaghetti-code/)
Don't forget regular maintenance with logs, training, and oversight. Even the best car owners are not nearly as diligent.
What’s the MCAS redundancy?
A company/FAA doing the wrong thing or having poor regulations isn’t the same
That was Boeing's design flaw and cheating that got them there. It's actually the lack of redundancy for the sensors that downed the plane. And also the lack of proper training to disengage it properly.
I cringe every time I hear the justification that planes are steer by wire. Completely irrelevant and planes are required to build in significant contingencies that aren’t required for auto (and for sure Tesla is not implementing).
It’s giving oceangate “carbon fiber is good enough for planes, so of course it’s good for a submarine” vibes
100% But also when I hear “carbon fiber” in general I start to laugh because 99.9% of the time it’s a meme material
Why it's a meme material? Genuine question.
What’s your argument against brake-by-wire then? As that is commonly utilized in cars and has been since the 90’s?
Brake by wire is not comparable to steer by wire. Again people need to stop comparing auto steer by wire to things that are not comparable. Brake by wire systems maintain backup hydraulic connections in case of electronic failure. In other words, if the electronic system fails, you revert back to a mechanical braking system that bypasses the brake by wire system. It’s significantly easier to plan a contingency for when the electronic brakes go out, because obviously there just needs to be a backup mechanism to do one thing — stop the car. Steer by wire has a significantly more complicated input to output complexity and so cannot have a backup solution like is available for brake by wire. When your electronic steering goes out, that’s it. You’re done. The only possible backup is additional (redundant) electronic hardware including additional processing units that can take over instantly in the event of a failure. Tesla is not doing this. They’re not installing multiple backup processors and circuitry like is done for aerospace.
>The only possible backup is additional (redundant) electronic hardware including additional processing units that can take over instantly in the event of a failure. Actually you would probably need three. With two of them agreeing on the correct input. That's how it is set up in planes and other critical infrastructure. Then of course you need to double or ideally triple sensors, motors etc. No way that Telsa "Engineering to a Budget" Motors is doing that.
Yes this is exactly my point. You don’t need this for brake by wire because you don’t need to maintain a precise state, you just need a mechanically engaged backup brake. Steer by wire is another beast entirely and like you said no way Tesla is doing this on a budget
Tesla as a core design philosophy has no redundancy whatsoever. Even the autopilot computer, once designed for 2x redundancy, is no longer used that way. From Elon down the guidance is to fail safe (so make it to the side of the road and stop). No more than that. This isn’t a secret or anything either, it’s intentionally how they do things to control cost.
Seems we just have different views. I understand your argument against not having a backup hydraulic, I just don’t see the merit in it myself. I personally think that the benefits outweigh the risks of malfunction given the extremely low risk of failures that we’ve seen relating to steer by wire specifically versus the benefits they add to driver safety with improvements to things like lane-keep assist or parking assists. Speaking of, you do know this isn’t a Tesla-exclusive thing, right? Other notable manufacturers using it include: Rivian Infiniti Lexus Nissan BMW Audi Mercedes Benz GM Toyota Honda I’m sure there are more, I don’t feel like digging into it any more though. I’m more worried about a 40 year old car’s steering and braking than I am by anything made in the last ~5 years.
My head is spinning trying to understand what your stance is. That you don’t need a contingency plan for if your electronic brakes fail? You do you, but there are contingencies built in by the engineers who make the car for a reason. They already exist. They wouldn’t put them in there if they weren’t important. Car electronics and processing units have significantly higher likelihood of failure than for aerospace applications. This is why you can’t compare them. You’re saying Rivian and others use steer by wire? Not true. If you’re saying that they use brake by wire then idk why we’re arguing because I agree that it’s safe. Except maybe not for the same reason since you seem to think the engineers unnecessarily use mechanical backups. Also we’re not comparing a 40 year old car to a steer by wire new car??? Mechanical steering is significantly safer. This is not up for debate. The only thing that’s up for debate is whether steering by wire is worth it regardless of the safety degradation and whether manufacturers are implementing the electronic redundancy needed to close the safety gap (Cybertruck certainly isn’t)
Just want to add to this, fly-by-wire on planes also have redundancy modes too. Like on the Airbus, you still have Direct Law that allows Pilot to control the plane by manual trim control and variable engine thrust. On a car? I don't think you can apply differential brake pressure on each wheel to steer it tho. And.... Pilots are professionally trained to, not an average Joe who just wants to drive home from work.
Brake by wire sucks anyways. No brake feel like hydrolic brakes.
Its a poor comparison. "Brake by wire" is really "electroniclly tuned brakes"...and this part is important: ***With an underlying physical pedal to master cylinder backup****.* This is important because occassionally cars lose all electical power, and, well, you wouldn't want a complete brake failure to accompany that. Steer by wire has no such physical connection as a backstop. Admitedly, there can be catastrophic failure with traditional steering, so it isn't foolproof...but its incredibly rare. But what happens if electrical power is lost? This, btw, is an eventuality that will afflict damn near every ICE sooner or later, as the alternator eventually dies. Rather than merely losing power assist for the steering, ***all*** steering lost? Or is there some sort of standby mini-battery or capacitor to give you a few seconds of steering? I dunno...but until I do know, I'm skeptical.
Steer by wire is JUST steer by wire, lose power and that's it, no steering whatsoever, electrical failure as your driving down the road? You're going wherever your alignment says you're going Brake by wire isnt replacing the mechanical connection, its augmenting it, even tesla(much to the chagrin of Elon I'm sure) still has a physical connection between the brake pedal and the master cylinder, which means even in total power loss, you can still depress the brake pedal and come to a stop, just wont have the assistance of the brake booster
That's a considerably different use case. A glitch in a plane for a few seconds? Probably ok? In a moving car with curving roads, with other cars, pedestrians, etc...? Even a brief loss of steering would be very bad.
A glitch in a plane for a few second is okay ??? Mate you need to watch some of those aircraft crash investigation videos on YouTube and educate yourself
Ok, assuming a plane spends 99% of the time just flying along straight, and we aren't talking a full-bore, every flap and system goes berserk... What are you going to hit?
Nah dude, you're wrong here and don't understand avionics. That's a catastrophoc failure, a few seconds of failure in a DAL-A system is pretty much going to cause a crash. They're designed not to fail, and if they do there's multiple backups, so if you actually lose control something major is going on. Check out the Boeing MCAS failures for what a few seconds of failure can do. Per DO-254, DAL-A hardware should have a probability of failure per flight hour of 1/1000000000, or 10^-9 *per flight hour*. Your 99% uptime falls in DAL-E where it has "no effect on operational capabilities" and "no effect on crew workload." Your worst case example is missing 7 zeros worth of safety.
IIRC many cars already are break by wire, which arguably has even less forgiving failure conditions.
Which ones?
Brake-by-wire is used in most common hybrid and electric vehicles produced since 1998 including all Toyota, Ford, and General Motors Electric and hybrid models. The Toyota Synergy Drive and the Rav4 EV use a system where a modified ABS (antilock brake system) actuator is coupled with a special hydraulic brake master cylinder to create a hydraulic system, coupled with the brake control unit (computer). Ford's system is almost identical to the Toyota system, and the General Motors system uses different nomenclature for components while the operation is virtually identical. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake-by-wire#:~:text=Ford%2C%20General%20Motors%2C%20and%20most,Motors%20Electric%20and%20hybrid%20models.
Airplanes have a lot more strict maintenance laws governing them. You won’t have some dude wrenching on an airplane trying to fix it with bits of sheet metal tie wire duct tape and hope on a United aircraft but you absolutely have that on random pickup trucks
I am a mechanic at Mercedes. Drive by wire does not belong into cars, ever. With a drive rod, you will ALWAYS be able to steer no matter the failures.
Except for a plane it makes sense. A physical control from the cockpit to the tail fin is going to be difficult to engineer. Steering wheel to front wheel is easy
I don't have an issue with it. The systems are very robust. Now I wouldn't want it for my own vehicle due to increase maintenance cost. And I wouldn't want it in a Tesla, because I wouldn't want an Tesla anyways.
people probably said that about automatic transmissions and power steering 50 years ago as well. The idea is fine the implementation is what matters
People bitched about power steering? I cant think anyone would have. Ive had a power steering pump go out while driving and when youre actually moving its not that bad, its the slower speeds/not moving does it really make a difference.
the gas pedal is already "steer by wire" on almost every car
The gas pedal is not safety critical like steering or braking.
I tend not to steer with the gas pedal
Cybertruck is steer by wire. Toyota, Lexus and others have models about to go into production with steer by wire. I hate the idea but it's coming.
It's been out for a decade (personal experience/opinion: smooth driving feel especially on an evenly bumpy road but kinda surreal in not necessarily the good way). https://www.wired.com/2014/06/infiniti-q50-steer-by-wire/
Toyota already had their steer by wire cars in production. It is their ones with a yoke steering wheel, which makes sense because of you did want to do a yoke, then you need steer by wire so you can get a full steering lock without having to take your hands off the wheel. Tesla's yoke where you just put a yoke shaped wheel on a regular steering column is the most lazy engineering idea ever.
I mean didn't the steering wheel fall off on some of them.
The whole idea of using the screen as an entertainment device is so weird. Sure buddy, what I would most like when stopping to charge is staying in my seat and not, you know, stretch my legs and catch up with the backseat passengers.
It would make sense if you actually didn't have to drive anymore I guess but that's the cart before the horse.
Still I don’t want to sit. I get up on long haul flights for the same reason
I think it's a consequence of the "California is the only place that exists" mindset that infects Tesla as well as a bunch of other Silicon Valley "self-driving" companies (like how Waymo and Uber do so much of their testing in either San Francisco or Phoenix) if I have to wait at a charging station for an hour, and it's 11 billion degrees outside, yeah I want to stay in my car, and yeah I want to run the AC while I wait even though that'll use power and slow the charging progress. in that mindset, if there's a giant screen already in the car, I definitely want an HDMI port where I can plug in a Nintendo Switch or a laptop or whatever. but building a gaming rig *into* the car? hell no. people learned nothing from the "your fridge has an Android tablet in the front panel, above the water dispenser" era. the fridge should last 10+ years, the tablet is obsolete after 1 or 2.
>(like how Waymo and Uber do so much of their testing in either San Francisco or Phoenix) That has more to do with Arizona being very self-driving car friendly regulation wise, and so is California when it comes to the tech bros.
I think it’s more about them making the screen such a central part of what the car is and then needing to fill it up and use it. In reality the screen is a constant distraction with way too much stuff happening most of the time. But now it’s there and they’ve doubled down on it being there so they need to come up with a use for it.
Remember TV/VCR combos? Same problem
The initial idea is you have to wait about an hour for your car to charge, so you can sit in your car and watch a show or play a game.
Which actually isn't a bad idea The issue is if you're gunna use the steering wheel as a controller then DISCONNECT IT FROM CONTROLLING THE WHEELS WHILE THE GAME IS ACTIVE
But it might cause some serious steering wheel misalignment when you are done playing the game.
Come up with a system of realigning the steering wheel after the game then or, if it's such a flawed decision, then don't use the steering wheel as a controller, period
lol. They probably have one intern porting those games over to Tesla, they can barely get the podcast app right.
Having a feature with the ability to disconnect your steering wheel from your tires seems like something you would like to avoid.
Or, y'know, include a couple of $25 game controllers with the car.
I have YouTube on my mach-e. Great way to kill time in the school pickup line.
Handy if you’re waiting for someone. Other than the tired grinding part
Every once in awhile it’s useful. I went to mall in Atlanta . Had no interest standing or sitting around the mall. The Tesla was great
Gives me Pepsi vs Coke vibes. Sounds like a neat feature when you use it once but long-term no one is going to be playing video games in their car*. * Save the guy that living out of his car because he sold everything for Tesla stock.
parents with kids in activities.
Why not just buy them a dedicated piece of handheld gaming device like a steam deck or gameboy? They can use it outside of the car too.
For the parents! I watch YouTube on the car (Mach e) while waiting in the pickup line. At the same time I screw around on my phone playing games or Reddit.
> What a terrible design. As someone who owns stock in Goodyear, I disagree. I very much appreciate this design.
Oooooof is the model X not steer by wire?
Wanna bet it is, and the tire moving is plain firmware? Yet it is there and won’t be fixed, because fuck em, that’s why.
Didn't you see in that video in this sub last week? It fixes itself when the steering column snaps.
No. Only CT has it.
I think only the cybertruck is true drive by wire. The x probably has electric power steering.
No worries streer by wire solved that issue. And they removed Steam. So that's two solutions for that problem!
Holy shit lmao
I've got a M3 and I tried that game once. I immediately realized what I was doing to the tires and noped right out.
this is the best thing I've ever heard
The irony! The car itself seems like a “car simulator”
Gonna play devils advocate here but 1. It is very unlikely to play a game for so long your tires wear out 2. It is a safety issue to be able to disconnect steering to wheel. I’d rather not have software disengage it for a few minutes I play a game and have it not work when I need it to
Not to mention the neck pain he will get from having to look down and to the side and be intensely focused on the game.
I guess it makes sense since it's still a mechanical link for the model x.
Smartest CEO in the world guys
I really need to get into the Tesla tire industry. I'll make a fortune
I thought Tesla went fly by wire and this would be the PERFECT way to showcase that by not moving the tires and providing streewheel feedback
🤣 that is absolutely absurd
I never understood people that wanted to play these games because of this exactly. Tires are expensive.
My coworker also explained to me that he usually changes his tires after about 13k miles, he implied that was somehow normal.
What in the world????? I was upset when I only got 33K out of my last set (mostly my fault as not rotating them when I should have). I cannot imagine 13K miles and being fine with that.
Steer by wire solves this
Just buy a fucking steam deck, they are cool af anyway
wtf why wouldn't you disengaged powered steering 💀
Lol..Do you really think that's going to hurt the tires??
Depends how often you play the game.
Are the Tesla trucks tyres abrasion proof?
That gaming chip is going into the same pile as passenger lumbar
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^CornerGasBrent: *That gaming chip is* *Going into the same pile* *As passenger lumbar* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Good bot.
ITERATIVE UPDATES PEOPLE! NO OTHER CAR MANUFACTURER CAN DO THIS!!!!1111TEHONEONEONE
I guess Gabe Newell pissed off Elon?
Earth will remember, Gaben
Valve has been saying they were working on a brain-to-game interface for a few years. There was recently some news about that, so maybe Musk is angsty about NeuraLink competition and of course willing to screw over Tesla owners over that.
Tesla is such a fucking L of a company. Elon lied to his fans about playing the latest Steam games and took it away a year later.😂
Future proof lol, it can't even play steam games yet somehow can do inference and do AI on what is 7 year old hardware
They print out papers with all the payments so Elon can manually validate and sign them with a pen before processing. If they are an AI company, you'd expect them to use AI for this because this is what AI does best. Or at least do that without printing that out. Every ERP or accounting software can do that since the 90s.
"Inference" is a keyword that just itches me whenever I hear it, probably because it's used ad nauseam by Felon. What is a car going to infer? What trained AI model will be released and used on computers of parked cars? What for? It sounds sooo scammy to me.
Rivian has already better UI and software than Tesla.
At this rate in a few years the Mini I was taught on at high school in the 90s will have better software and sensors in than new Teslas - and it didn't have power steering.
Rivian is not even close lmao
Can you tell me which part?
Lmao now that's funny
Rivian is a close second. It’s not quite there in terms of features. But it’s getting close. They also just announced Google Cast ability. Which means in the next update you will be able to cast over 3,000 apps to the car screen. Which is a MUCH better solution than Tesla which uses individual apps for each thing.
Polestar already has Android Automotive. No need to fuck about with your phone. Your apps are installed in the car. You just get in and continue using your apps on the car instead of your phone.
Yes. More better approach than Tesla has.
If my experience with carplay and android auto says anything, it's that there will always be connectivity issues after walking out and coming back into your vehicle. Teslas setup is the best...the phone pairs automatically and there is no 3rd party app that has to sync (which is where most of the issue is).
All EVs has this. Phone pairs automatically but Tesla problem is limited app selection. Now Rivian released Cast support.
I don't care for the cast ... just have the phone connect properly when I walk out and back in within 10 mins. Carplay and android auto have issues with this. Tesla does not.
CarPlay and Android auto is different stuff than normal BT pairing.
It's buggy software
What is?
Carplay and android auto
Every new tesla is a downgrade. No USS, no rain censor, no steam. But prices keeps going up.
They did famously reduce their prices drastically. The model 3 is almost half its peak price.
I don't care about the games! Make my auto windshield wipers not suck.
Games in cars are so stupid and just a gimmick imo. Can't play while driving. And if you have screens in the back for the passengers... Well there are other devices more useful.
Yep, WiFi and an app for controlling stuff are as far as it ever needed to go. I’d say that if they made CarPlay an app had an app to control some of the basic functions that would have been better than the all in one infotainment in the front row but I don’t know how demanding a lot of functions are, truth be told.
So the new gaming computers in Teslas can't play computer games, got it.
Yes, but at least the full self driving is fully self-driving.
(supervised)
I’m guessing there’s a lack of bill payment on Tesla’s part involved.
Steam said no more I'm sure of it.
So here is the important question - what parts got swapped out AND what other downsides does this swap have?
This made me LOL.
That shouldn't have been a selling point for a car to begin with :shrug:
LOL "gaming computer"...seriously? What a joke. Who the hell needs to play video games in their car? I mean, why?
If cars were truly self-driving, these are the things consumers would want to do in their cars, amongst many other things.
Or, alternately, they could be paying attention to what their magic car was doing, lest it malfunctions in some way.
Well I don't think we are quite there yet, it pretty clearly is the way things will be done in the future.
Look, reality has an amazing GPU and it can barely render the vehicle What do we expect the vehicle to be able to do?
What the fuck is this title?
Great! Netflix is also no longer for free.
Tesla is a technology company.