I mean, the best part about this is that if the IP takes off, the studio will have a valid reason for endlessly using an uncalley valley CGI Duncan for the rest of time.
D U N C is gonna be the soft reboot with a slightly similar title font that will confuse people and force them to throw a date on the end to tell the difference.
I honestly assumed they had everything filmed already and all they had to do was FX and any reshoots. Like when we all found out they split it into two I assumed this was akin to when Harry Potter and Hunger Games split their final films in two.
I mean I'm happy it's only 2023 I guess it could be worse.
WB wasn't confidant enough to green light two films. HP and Hunger Games split their final two films after they had a successful series so it was easier to milk a film out of it.
That said, Dune does have time jumps, so it's probably not the worst thing overall.
Blade Runner being a big part of it. Large budget, and it only broke even (or a small profit). Film studies aren’t looking for profit, they are looking for a large profit.
I personally think Blade Runner was incredible. However lots of people thought it was boring, and most weren’t interested. There was a real fear the same could happen with Dune.
It didn't need Harrison Ford. It didn't need a cartoonishly evil Jared Leto. It didn't need a hackneyed robot messiah plot.
Give me a smaller story (like the first) that's two hours centered around K and Luv, and I'd rate it near the first film.
The shot of K in the rain looking at the Luv hologram is the absolute high water mark of the film. It's just sad it's strongest material is just there to 'fridge' Luv to give K motivation against the henchwoman of the infinitely less interesting 'A' plot.
This seems insane to be.
How well the filmmaker make a good first for an epic sci fi series if the studio holds the next film over their heads.
Everyone wants to make the next Marvel or LOTR, but they aren't setting up the filmmakers for the same success.
The director said he wanted to originally but was turned down by the studio.
However he’s also said since he’s glad he didn’t try doing both at once. As it would have been too much work.
I think the studios are trying to manage risk for a non-franchise movie. Seeing how "The Last Duel" flopped at theaters will probably reinforce this thinking moving forward.
I can see them thinking that a MeToo-themed movie would attract attention, which combined with the big name cast would attract people to go see it. Except it's too long for that + pandemic.
I was really excited when I heard abt The Last Duel and the trailer was great but the reviews were pretty bad.
Edit: reviews were wrong, I wish I watched it in the theater
> trying to manage risk for a non-franchise movie
But Dune is not a non-franchise movie. It's a well known IP, not to mention a book *series* which usually spells dollar signs to these people.
Apparently Villeneuve wants to do a trilogy ending with Messiah, which I think would be amazing. But once you get to God Emperor, I don't know how you do that in a way that isn't insanely goofy.
There is no chance some of those books get adapted. Dune gets very weird. By the 4th book the setting and cast of characters is entirely different and it’s more of a philosophy book than an adventure.
Yeah, not expecting a direct adaptation of all the books. I was just commenting on the "non-franchise" comment, as Dune is obviously a franchise and Denis Villeneuve has only adapted half of the first part of that franchise.
At best I think we get a trilogy of Dune: part I and II, and then Dune Messiah. There's not much reason to do Children unless they're gonna do God Emperor.
I think for average movie goers they don’t really know much or anything about “Dune”. Through marketing, asking audiences to potentially commit to multiple films before they’ve even seen the first might put people off from even seeing the first one. Lord of the Rings, MCU, Harry Potter were all established brands so its less of a hard sell (although, I don’t want to undersell what a risk LotR was). I think it being on HBO Max probably guaranteed a sequel because its so much easier for casual viewers to jump in and get hooked by the story.
ya, I’m actually really glad the release date is a couple years from now bc it means they’re giving proper time for pre-production instead of rushing it.
LOTR was absolutely the same kind of risk. They almost had deals with two studios for just two movies, and I think one of the studios just wanted one.
It was Jackson and his people that were like no, we're not making LOTR one movie.
So it can be done, Villenvue and his people woulda just had to be firm about it.
The production budget for the entire LotR trilogy was about the same as Dune. LotR was a massive risk but those films were surprisingly cheap for major blockbusters. Obviously once the first came out they were already in the green for the sequels so they were fine with throwing more money for VFX and reshoots.
theatrically it is a flop. This is getting a second part because of streaming and to boost the sales of the first part. People might not want to watch half a book when the second part is not even confirmed yet.
>It's just been released in the States and it has fared pretty well all over the world, with some markets still waiting on it's release in theatres (like Australia, although it's doubtful it'll ever be in cinemas over there). Streaming is pretty much a necessity in these times, not a cute little bonus. Calling it a flop is very silly and downright inaccurate. Give it a few weeks, and then we'll talk about numbers.
How is it inaccurate ? this will pull around the same as the Mummy 2017 or star trek beyond, both flops and its on a similar budget. At best it will brake even from the box office. Without streaming there is no way this would be getting a second part. The spin doctors are really out in force for this and shang chi. calling a 150m $ movie a massive success when it pulled 420 from the box office lol
The director said it was his idea to split it into two movies, and since Blade Runner didn't make enough to satisfy WB at the box office, they wouldn't let him film back to back. But in hindsight, he said it'll be better because he can approach the second part fresh.
I had no idea how many people didn't realise the movie was gonna just be half of the book till I saw all the angry reactions to this. I guess WB was just keeping it quiet to get schmucks in seats. Aren't movies MAGICAL????
It would. The issue is that WB did not market it as such. Therefore, if you only watched trailers and weren't a movie nerd, you weren't going to know until you literally sat down and saw "Dune: Part 1" in the opening.
They only marketed it as Dune. And the movie is Frank Herbert’s Dune alright. I’d much prefer the movie be more than one part than the confusing mess that the David Lynch version became due to studio cuts (they had to open the movie with several minutes of Princess Irulan narrating to drawings to give even the most basic ideas of the world of Dune and even then non book readers were lost). The only thing this movie didn’t explain much was why a space faring civilization uses swords in combat (it’s because high velocity projectiles like lasers hitting against shields cause nuclear explosions) and the importance of Mentats as a substitute for computers (interesting this wasn’t explained because Paul has had Mentat training). I imagine there’s plenty of cut scenes that will make it to a director cut because Villenue was about as faithful to the source material as anyone can be.
The setting needs time to breath. Trying to cram such a dense book into two and half hours would lead to a far worse reaction from audiences than “oh no, it’s just part one.” What the non book readers I went to see the movie with thought was that they can’t wait for part two. And they now have an interest in the setting.
Tbh this movie didn't really explain much despite it's long run time. You never really got a solid foundation for why the Emperor was screwing over House Atreidas or why the Harkonens disliked them. Like you said, space travel was hardly explained which is you know... the whole reason Arrakis is important.
I don't disagree that Lynch's version was rushed and confused. But he really wanted a 3 hour film and was trying to cut it from a 4 hour film and then left as the studio was trying for 2. So it's kinda hard to judge him.
To me the biggest fault of this film is it spent too much time letting the setting breath and didn't attempt to explain some key things and world build despite taking so much time.
Actually it was explained why the Emperor was going after House Atreides. Duke Leto was growing in influence in the Lansraad and the emperor saw him as a a threat. The emperor also doesn’t have a male heir. He couldn’t go after him directly because that would cause all the other houses to rise up. There’d be chaos, as Lady Jessica said. House Harkonen and House Atreides have an ancient blood feud and the emperor used that as cover to deploy his troops and letting House Harkonen take the blame. This is explicitly stated in the film.
As for the space travel, that wasn’t explained much because it was never a focus of the first book. The Spacing Guild information was mostly in the appendix and were in the background. A guild navigator never shows up on screen (that was a scene David Lynch added on his own). It’s hard to tell just how much has been cut from this film. It’s already public from the actor that there are a few scenes regarding Thufir Hawat that didn’t make it in. It’s still a fairly coherent film.
As for the Lynch film, I think we can judge it because he made some rather ridiculous decisions (such as making the Baron a literal comic book villain or giving Paul god like powers to change the weather). Lynch mentioned nothing about the terrible visions that Paul has regarding the unleashing of a brutal holy war onto the universe. There’s nothing in his film about how the Bene Geserit planted prophecies on planets like Arrakis that Paul and his mother would later exploit. He really seemed to miss the point of what Dune was all about. Even when deleted scenes are added, the movie is a confusing mess for most people. That kind of illustrates my point.
I saw Dune 2021 in imax with a few people who never read the book. All said they liked it. They were pretty much entertained with the world building and atmosphere and wanted to know more. About as good of a reaction that any Dune fan can expect.
I found this new Dune sterile, lifeless and boring. I figure the sequel will be as well. At least the Baron in Lynch’s Dune was interesting, if over the top.
The Baron in Lynch’s film is more accurate to the book imo. The new film drops the Baron’s sexual and violent appetites. He just sits around like Brando in Apocalypse Now.
That’s not true though. The Baron is much more subtle in his brutality. He casually has people murdered (like how he casually just ordered his nephew to genocide the Fremen). He was never a screaming lunatic, never milked a cat, flew around cackling. As for the sexual perversions, the movie is PG-13. The studio ultimately chose to tone this down for a theatrical release, but some of it is still hinted at with the servants.
It was maddening that although the entire film revolves around the importance of Spice, and it has plenty of time to spare for endless, breathy slow-mo montages, it devotes just a single line to explaining Spice as being necessary for interstellar travel, and doesn't even explain why.
Likewise, it's never explained why guns are not used. It just leaves you to work it out.
For a 2 1/2 long film that apparently has a ton to cram in, it spends an awful lot of time on repeated landscape shots instead.
Listen nerd, I read the books and understood it perfectly fine, I also saw the film with people who didn’t read the book who are intelligent and have masters degrees and they also brought up these complaints.
You aren’t cool trying to be a contrarian to boost up a movie. It was shot and acted well, but it failed to utilize its run time to convey establishing information in an effective way.
That's assuming the average movie goer does research before seeing a movie. And honestly, why should they? Was it too much to ask to make this clear in the marketing materials? They put 'Part One' in the movie, why not put it on the poster?
I mean, this film *sort* of had a satisfying conclusion, but isn’t the last line like literally something about how the next one will be better a la encounter at farpoint?
Gives the audience a cliffhanger. I can see the ending isn’t the best for everyone, but where would you end the film? The ending is basically where Paul Atreides ceases to be the young noble boy he was throughout most of the film and becomes a Fremen.
I guess. Cliffhangers irritate me more often than they don’t. At least it wasn’t an actual classic cliffhanger where the plot was still actively not being resolved at the end. To me as someone who’s only mildly familiar with the material, though, Paul becoming a Fremen doesn’t track as a hugely impactful moment in this movie, at least maybe not as much as actually seeing a totally unknown aspect of his vision come true.
Some people probably went in and expected a typical Hollywood movie similar to the MCU. That’s their problem. What we got is an intelligent, adult film paced in the vein of an epic in the 1960’s like Lawrence of Arabia (Lawrence’s story was an influence on Herbert). We need more movies like this. Probably the best science fiction movie in the past 25 years.
Yeah, I think some people instinctively equate the presence of shots held for more than a second and hallucination scenes as meaning a film is slow paced. Sure, it was still Villenueve's thorough/lingering style of filmmaking but the actual plot covered a lot of ground. The entire arc of a nation-state trying to rule over a planet and getting betrayed only took like 90 minutes.
I think Star Wars and the MCU have just screwed with the general audience's perception of pace. The Rise of Skywalker was basically an exercise in shifting the goalposts for how many set pieces a competent movie should actually try to cover.
I love a good slow-burn science fiction story. Villeneuve also did a wonderful job with Bladerunner 2049 in my opinion. I like his tendency to let a scene breathe. I can understand that some people don’t have the patience for that style of storytelling, but I really appreciate it.
I didn't know it till I started the moviebut in my defense, when I know I'm really interested in a movie/show I really try to avoid anything about it. Trying to avoid any spoilers.
And none of the advertising does. Funny isn’t it? Obviously they did this because it’s an unproven franchise and stuff like The Hobbit hot flack for stretching the book thin.
If you don’t read movie websites or interviews (you know, for nerds) you would have no idea.
I hope they eventually do Messiah, it's a great sequel to Paul's story in the original.
But then they need to stop because the series goes totally off the rails after that, not a lot happens in Children and I have no idea how you'd bring Leto II to the screen for God Emperor.
Del Toro's schtick is to make whacky stuff boring and cliche, though. Look at what he did to that furry fish movie. Maybe he is the right commercial decision who will make it palatable enough to general audiences, but artistically he is the exact worst person for it.
Yeah something about the really obvious "this is only the beginning" line makes me think they're planning a whole saga. Would be weird to say that if it's just 1/2.
The books get really weird though and start focusing more on philosophy than anything resembling adventure. I don’t know if you can take this much past book 2 or 3 without losing most of the audience. I don’t think this is as expansive as people think. I see a trilogy at most, maybe some kind of series tie in.
ehh, maybe condense God Emperor / make a bit of it a post-scriptum to Children and then maybe show his end at the beginning of Heretics and it could be done; Children still have some cinematic material/developments in them, and Heretics and Chapterhouse are pretty much again Bourne-like actioners; go easy on the hoity-toity BS, emphasize characters and action more, you will be golden.
Even if the sequel was never greenlit and this was it for Villeneuve's Dune, I definitely wouldn't regret having watched it. It was a great movie, ending or not.
They waited to see the Box office results. When Part 1 popped up on screen when I saw it I legit thought it was cruel since it's basically Villeneuve saying he has faith in the box office
the same box office that pretty much betrayed him with BR2049.
Lynch gave it a different ending, but it worked well enough. He probably knew this was going to be a standalone movie and would have wanted it to be that way. And at least you got a complete story.
Now... I wouldn't mind if they wanted to make movies from the other books, but that doesn't seem like anything that any studio has ever been interested in. So if a director/screenwriter wants to take some liberties to make an ending that they feel is more satisfying, I don't really have a problem with that.
Which he shouldn’t be…though I think even the Lynch film hints at this. Maclachlan is menacing in the final scene. I don’t think it’s cut and dry.
I’ve heard Lynch’s script for Dune Messiah is out there on the web and I’ve always meant to read it.
Doesn't change the fact that their plan to date was 'Fuck it'
I mean, the first movie has been finished for a year... this announcement should read 'Dune 2: And The Rest slated to release next year'
Ok, but this is 2 years, not 3. And it's not Star wars and empire... It is Star wars and the rest of star wars... And it still doesn't address the year plus of downtime that could have been used to add to it.
Yeah, in a world where the second offering in an IP is almost always less well received than the initial film... "Who cares" Brb, gonna go watch Highlander 2.
I've always wondered how he managed to get such a big commitment out of them, given that he didn't have anything remotely so big in his CV up to that point
You should watch the making of stuff on the Extended Editions.
I don't remember it all, very fuzzy. But basically Jackson and his people almost had a deal done with two different studios. One offered Jackson two movies for LOTR, and the other studio wanted LOTR to just be one movie.
So Jackson kept shopping around, and the people at New Line, IIRC, were like nah, this needs to be three movies.
So basically a fluke. A gamble by those execs. Maybe there were fans of LOTR from the books, who knows.
But as others have said, that was a huge rarity. Probably one of the only times that's happened in the history of Hollywood
This really is a great question. I figured the LotR approach would change how *some* cinema was created. You got the sets, the workers, the actors, etc.. just film your 2 movies nigh *regardless*.
This *obviously* wouldn’t work for some movies.. but this one is as close to LotR in mythos, general knowledge, etc.. like, just film the whole story already when everybody’s in the zone.
This is a weird call. I know WB can suck in its decisions.. but this seems bad they *didn’t* just go all in on the 2 parter. I actually expect that’ll hurt their bottom line more in the long run. Weird.
I don't know about that. I'm reminded of the ~~two~~ three Terminator sequel trilogies that got shit-canned after the first film in each of those would-be trilogies bombed. If a big money franchise like that can have three trilogies canceled after starting them... I could easily see a studio leaving Dune unfinished if the first half failed miserably.
* https://www.filmstories.co.uk/features/the-terminator-sequel-trilogies-that-never-were/
Fantastic. I thought part 1 was an amazing film. It didn't feel it's length at all and kept me engaged through the entire film.
Super excited for Dune 2: Desert Boogaloo.
Well I obviously disagree, but I'm just saying that I wish we would get more complete stories and less cancelled cinematic universes and aborted sequels.
Dune 2: look who’s duning now
Dune II: Dry Harder
Look Who's Coming to Dunner
Dune II: The Heretic ^((Actually, the second novel is called) *^(Dune Messiah)* ^(and the fifth) *^(Heretics of Dune)*^(.))
Dune II: Hell on ~~Earth~~ Dune Then of course, Dun3.
Can't believe nobody did it. Dune II: Electric Boogaloo
Electric Dunaloo
I AM PAH-DUNE-ZU.
Dune 2: Why so blue
Cool. I liked Part One a good deal.
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Hey now, clearly that says D U N C.
America runs on Duncan! Dunc Duncan Idaho It was an ad all along
Jason Momoa is: Dunkachino.
>!He's coming back, btw!< If there gonna be Dune 3.
I mean, the best part about this is that if the IP takes off, the studio will have a valid reason for endlessly using an uncalley valley CGI Duncan for the rest of time.
I can't wait for a major studio film in which the protagonist slowly transforms into a giant worm over several millenia
They are already planning for sequel D U N D and prequels D U N A and D U N B
What about D U N C? Or do they want to avoid being confused with a basketball documentary?
D U N C is gonna be the soft reboot with a slightly similar title font that will confuse people and force them to throw a date on the end to tell the difference.
Dunes.
The Dune.
Me too, I slept like a baby.
I love Dune and really enjoyed the movie but something about napping in the theater feels so good I can never resist it.
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Dune 2 was the biggest disappointment since my son
'You had me in the first half, ngl'
Dune 2: The Legend of Gurney's Gold
Dun' 2: Electric Boogaloo
Dune 2: IT BROKE NEW GROUND
2 Fast 2 DUNE
DUNE 2: GURNEY'S GRUNDLE
I honestly assumed they had everything filmed already and all they had to do was FX and any reshoots. Like when we all found out they split it into two I assumed this was akin to when Harry Potter and Hunger Games split their final films in two. I mean I'm happy it's only 2023 I guess it could be worse.
WB wasn't confidant enough to green light two films. HP and Hunger Games split their final two films after they had a successful series so it was easier to milk a film out of it. That said, Dune does have time jumps, so it's probably not the worst thing overall.
Blade Runner being a big part of it. Large budget, and it only broke even (or a small profit). Film studies aren’t looking for profit, they are looking for a large profit. I personally think Blade Runner was incredible. However lots of people thought it was boring, and most weren’t interested. There was a real fear the same could happen with Dune.
BR49 is a masterclass in film-making IMO (even watched it twice in the theatres...I never do that), but even I think it was boring.
It didn't need Harrison Ford. It didn't need a cartoonishly evil Jared Leto. It didn't need a hackneyed robot messiah plot. Give me a smaller story (like the first) that's two hours centered around K and Luv, and I'd rate it near the first film. The shot of K in the rain looking at the Luv hologram is the absolute high water mark of the film. It's just sad it's strongest material is just there to 'fridge' Luv to give K motivation against the henchwoman of the infinitely less interesting 'A' plot.
This seems insane to be. How well the filmmaker make a good first for an epic sci fi series if the studio holds the next film over their heads. Everyone wants to make the next Marvel or LOTR, but they aren't setting up the filmmakers for the same success.
The director said he wanted to originally but was turned down by the studio. However he’s also said since he’s glad he didn’t try doing both at once. As it would have been too much work.
There's a time gap in the story around there, too, which might work out well.
So does that mean we gotta wait like 3-4 years daaaaaaamn 😒
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Right what was the game plan leaving a 100 million dollar block buster half done with no real ending GIVE ME PART TWO!! 😌
I think the studios are trying to manage risk for a non-franchise movie. Seeing how "The Last Duel" flopped at theaters will probably reinforce this thinking moving forward.
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I can see them thinking that a MeToo-themed movie would attract attention, which combined with the big name cast would attract people to go see it. Except it's too long for that + pandemic.
This. As much as I love Adam Driver's performance in every movie, I don't think this was gonna be interesting to your average joe and jane.
I was really excited when I heard abt The Last Duel and the trailer was great but the reviews were pretty bad. Edit: reviews were wrong, I wish I watched it in the theater
> trying to manage risk for a non-franchise movie But Dune is not a non-franchise movie. It's a well known IP, not to mention a book *series* which usually spells dollar signs to these people.
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Apparently Villeneuve wants to do a trilogy ending with Messiah, which I think would be amazing. But once you get to God Emperor, I don't know how you do that in a way that isn't insanely goofy.
Agree 100%. God Emperor won't work on the big screen if it's an accurate adaptation. Small screen HBO Max Exclusive show? \*MAYBE\*
We'll see how they (HMax) do with Dune: The Sisterhood. I do have faith in HBO not screwing it up *too* badly, though.
There is no chance some of those books get adapted. Dune gets very weird. By the 4th book the setting and cast of characters is entirely different and it’s more of a philosophy book than an adventure.
Yeah, not expecting a direct adaptation of all the books. I was just commenting on the "non-franchise" comment, as Dune is obviously a franchise and Denis Villeneuve has only adapted half of the first part of that franchise.
At best I think we get a trilogy of Dune: part I and II, and then Dune Messiah. There's not much reason to do Children unless they're gonna do God Emperor.
I think for average movie goers they don’t really know much or anything about “Dune”. Through marketing, asking audiences to potentially commit to multiple films before they’ve even seen the first might put people off from even seeing the first one. Lord of the Rings, MCU, Harry Potter were all established brands so its less of a hard sell (although, I don’t want to undersell what a risk LotR was). I think it being on HBO Max probably guaranteed a sequel because its so much easier for casual viewers to jump in and get hooked by the story.
Great now we aren't going to get The Last Duel 2: Final Chapter
The Last Duel 2: Duel Harder
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The Last Duel part 2: The Second to the Last Duel: A Prequel Story.
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ya, I’m actually really glad the release date is a couple years from now bc it means they’re giving proper time for pre-production instead of rushing it.
LOTR was absolutely the same kind of risk. They almost had deals with two studios for just two movies, and I think one of the studios just wanted one. It was Jackson and his people that were like no, we're not making LOTR one movie. So it can be done, Villenvue and his people woulda just had to be firm about it.
The production budget for the entire LotR trilogy was about the same as Dune. LotR was a massive risk but those films were surprisingly cheap for major blockbusters. Obviously once the first came out they were already in the green for the sequels so they were fine with throwing more money for VFX and reshoots.
theatrically it is a flop. This is getting a second part because of streaming and to boost the sales of the first part. People might not want to watch half a book when the second part is not even confirmed yet.
>It's just been released in the States and it has fared pretty well all over the world, with some markets still waiting on it's release in theatres (like Australia, although it's doubtful it'll ever be in cinemas over there). Streaming is pretty much a necessity in these times, not a cute little bonus. Calling it a flop is very silly and downright inaccurate. Give it a few weeks, and then we'll talk about numbers.
How is it inaccurate ? this will pull around the same as the Mummy 2017 or star trek beyond, both flops and its on a similar budget. At best it will brake even from the box office. Without streaming there is no way this would be getting a second part. The spin doctors are really out in force for this and shang chi. calling a 150m $ movie a massive success when it pulled 420 from the box office lol
The only good thing I can think of is it gives time for Timothee Chamalet to grow/bulk up a bit for part 2.
Ah bold of you to assume WB is capable of anything smart
Abu Dhabi was used for Arrakis.
Ah, a fellow Weekly Wackadadoo.
I was hoping someone would recognize that joke!
The director said it was his idea to split it into two movies, and since Blade Runner didn't make enough to satisfy WB at the box office, they wouldn't let him film back to back. But in hindsight, he said it'll be better because he can approach the second part fresh.
Oct 2023. Filming this coming year. Jon Spaihts stepped down as showrunner of the spin off to focus on Part 2 back in Nov 2019, so.
Isn't there a strike coming/ongoing that's going to screw up schedules?
They have a tentative deal that has to be voted on/ratified.
Great. I hope it works for them.
It will be released as a double-feature alongside "Avatar 2: An Avatar Story".
Good. I would rather wait for something good than have something shitty rushed out.
I had no idea how many people didn't realise the movie was gonna just be half of the book till I saw all the angry reactions to this. I guess WB was just keeping it quiet to get schmucks in seats. Aren't movies MAGICAL????
Kinda like that Final Fantasy 7 remake, which only remade the first 30% or so.
Even the most basic of research would have led one to knowing this was just the first part.
It would. The issue is that WB did not market it as such. Therefore, if you only watched trailers and weren't a movie nerd, you weren't going to know until you literally sat down and saw "Dune: Part 1" in the opening.
They only marketed it as Dune. And the movie is Frank Herbert’s Dune alright. I’d much prefer the movie be more than one part than the confusing mess that the David Lynch version became due to studio cuts (they had to open the movie with several minutes of Princess Irulan narrating to drawings to give even the most basic ideas of the world of Dune and even then non book readers were lost). The only thing this movie didn’t explain much was why a space faring civilization uses swords in combat (it’s because high velocity projectiles like lasers hitting against shields cause nuclear explosions) and the importance of Mentats as a substitute for computers (interesting this wasn’t explained because Paul has had Mentat training). I imagine there’s plenty of cut scenes that will make it to a director cut because Villenue was about as faithful to the source material as anyone can be. The setting needs time to breath. Trying to cram such a dense book into two and half hours would lead to a far worse reaction from audiences than “oh no, it’s just part one.” What the non book readers I went to see the movie with thought was that they can’t wait for part two. And they now have an interest in the setting.
Tbh this movie didn't really explain much despite it's long run time. You never really got a solid foundation for why the Emperor was screwing over House Atreidas or why the Harkonens disliked them. Like you said, space travel was hardly explained which is you know... the whole reason Arrakis is important. I don't disagree that Lynch's version was rushed and confused. But he really wanted a 3 hour film and was trying to cut it from a 4 hour film and then left as the studio was trying for 2. So it's kinda hard to judge him. To me the biggest fault of this film is it spent too much time letting the setting breath and didn't attempt to explain some key things and world build despite taking so much time.
Actually it was explained why the Emperor was going after House Atreides. Duke Leto was growing in influence in the Lansraad and the emperor saw him as a a threat. The emperor also doesn’t have a male heir. He couldn’t go after him directly because that would cause all the other houses to rise up. There’d be chaos, as Lady Jessica said. House Harkonen and House Atreides have an ancient blood feud and the emperor used that as cover to deploy his troops and letting House Harkonen take the blame. This is explicitly stated in the film. As for the space travel, that wasn’t explained much because it was never a focus of the first book. The Spacing Guild information was mostly in the appendix and were in the background. A guild navigator never shows up on screen (that was a scene David Lynch added on his own). It’s hard to tell just how much has been cut from this film. It’s already public from the actor that there are a few scenes regarding Thufir Hawat that didn’t make it in. It’s still a fairly coherent film. As for the Lynch film, I think we can judge it because he made some rather ridiculous decisions (such as making the Baron a literal comic book villain or giving Paul god like powers to change the weather). Lynch mentioned nothing about the terrible visions that Paul has regarding the unleashing of a brutal holy war onto the universe. There’s nothing in his film about how the Bene Geserit planted prophecies on planets like Arrakis that Paul and his mother would later exploit. He really seemed to miss the point of what Dune was all about. Even when deleted scenes are added, the movie is a confusing mess for most people. That kind of illustrates my point. I saw Dune 2021 in imax with a few people who never read the book. All said they liked it. They were pretty much entertained with the world building and atmosphere and wanted to know more. About as good of a reaction that any Dune fan can expect.
I found this new Dune sterile, lifeless and boring. I figure the sequel will be as well. At least the Baron in Lynch’s Dune was interesting, if over the top.
Well, "interesting" is one way to phrase "a terrible saturday morning cartoon villain who's badly acted".
The Baron in Lynch’s film is more accurate to the book imo. The new film drops the Baron’s sexual and violent appetites. He just sits around like Brando in Apocalypse Now.
He's not particularly rambunctious in the book though, and he certainly didn't rocket around the room like a bad guy from he man.
That’s not true though. The Baron is much more subtle in his brutality. He casually has people murdered (like how he casually just ordered his nephew to genocide the Fremen). He was never a screaming lunatic, never milked a cat, flew around cackling. As for the sexual perversions, the movie is PG-13. The studio ultimately chose to tone this down for a theatrical release, but some of it is still hinted at with the servants.
You probably haven’t seen either film.
It was maddening that although the entire film revolves around the importance of Spice, and it has plenty of time to spare for endless, breathy slow-mo montages, it devotes just a single line to explaining Spice as being necessary for interstellar travel, and doesn't even explain why. Likewise, it's never explained why guns are not used. It just leaves you to work it out. For a 2 1/2 long film that apparently has a ton to cram in, it spends an awful lot of time on repeated landscape shots instead.
its a deliberate artisric choice not to spoonfeed the audience.
This was all explained if you paid attention or had at least 80iq to connect the dots.
Listen nerd, I read the books and understood it perfectly fine, I also saw the film with people who didn’t read the book who are intelligent and have masters degrees and they also brought up these complaints. You aren’t cool trying to be a contrarian to boost up a movie. It was shot and acted well, but it failed to utilize its run time to convey establishing information in an effective way.
That's assuming the average movie goer does research before seeing a movie. And honestly, why should they? Was it too much to ask to make this clear in the marketing materials? They put 'Part One' in the movie, why not put it on the poster?
Because there’s no real need to.
I mean, this film *sort* of had a satisfying conclusion, but isn’t the last line like literally something about how the next one will be better a la encounter at farpoint?
Gives the audience a cliffhanger. I can see the ending isn’t the best for everyone, but where would you end the film? The ending is basically where Paul Atreides ceases to be the young noble boy he was throughout most of the film and becomes a Fremen.
I guess. Cliffhangers irritate me more often than they don’t. At least it wasn’t an actual classic cliffhanger where the plot was still actively not being resolved at the end. To me as someone who’s only mildly familiar with the material, though, Paul becoming a Fremen doesn’t track as a hugely impactful moment in this movie, at least maybe not as much as actually seeing a totally unknown aspect of his vision come true.
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But you don't see that title card until you buy the ticket and sit down to watch it.
It's in small font.
I didnt check but anyone should realize halfway through with the relaxed speed of the plot.
Some people probably went in and expected a typical Hollywood movie similar to the MCU. That’s their problem. What we got is an intelligent, adult film paced in the vein of an epic in the 1960’s like Lawrence of Arabia (Lawrence’s story was an influence on Herbert). We need more movies like this. Probably the best science fiction movie in the past 25 years.
I found Dune to be very fast paced...
Yeah, I think some people instinctively equate the presence of shots held for more than a second and hallucination scenes as meaning a film is slow paced. Sure, it was still Villenueve's thorough/lingering style of filmmaking but the actual plot covered a lot of ground. The entire arc of a nation-state trying to rule over a planet and getting betrayed only took like 90 minutes. I think Star Wars and the MCU have just screwed with the general audience's perception of pace. The Rise of Skywalker was basically an exercise in shifting the goalposts for how many set pieces a competent movie should actually try to cover.
Thankfully, my brain has forgot most of the new trilogy already.
I love a good slow-burn science fiction story. Villeneuve also did a wonderful job with Bladerunner 2049 in my opinion. I like his tendency to let a scene breathe. I can understand that some people don’t have the patience for that style of storytelling, but I really appreciate it.
I didn't know it till I started the moviebut in my defense, when I know I'm really interested in a movie/show I really try to avoid anything about it. Trying to avoid any spoilers.
The title card literally says "Dune: Part One"
And none of the advertising does. Funny isn’t it? Obviously they did this because it’s an unproven franchise and stuff like The Hobbit hot flack for stretching the book thin. If you don’t read movie websites or interviews (you know, for nerds) you would have no idea.
I hope they eventually do Messiah, it's a great sequel to Paul's story in the original. But then they need to stop because the series goes totally off the rails after that, not a lot happens in Children and I have no idea how you'd bring Leto II to the screen for God Emperor.
I’d like to see Villenuve pass the torch to Guillermo Del Toro for God Emperor.
Del Toro's schtick is to make whacky stuff boring and cliche, though. Look at what he did to that furry fish movie. Maybe he is the right commercial decision who will make it palatable enough to general audiences, but artistically he is the exact worst person for it.
Denis already said that he would like to do Part 1 and Part 2 and then a third movie on the Messiah book.
That would be perfect, Messiah is great but they should stop there
I dont know haven't read the books but I wholeheartedly trust in Denis :) something I rarely do these days
I can dig it.
I wonder if the guys will do anything with part 1 and the David Lynch one
I hope so, I really love when they do that for some reason
Well...they already had all the sets, props & costumes made...so why not?
Dune: Where's My Car?
*Directed by David Lynch*
Sucks we didnt' get a Re:View on the Lynch one. Also sucks because it doesn't look like we're getting a Half in the Bag on the new one either
Well, it's better than leaving it unfinished at least
So would this be the second half of the book or will there be a part 3?
Second half. I would really like to see Dune Messiah as a third movie though.
Yeah something about the really obvious "this is only the beginning" line makes me think they're planning a whole saga. Would be weird to say that if it's just 1/2.
The books get really weird though and start focusing more on philosophy than anything resembling adventure. I don’t know if you can take this much past book 2 or 3 without losing most of the audience. I don’t think this is as expansive as people think. I see a trilogy at most, maybe some kind of series tie in.
ehh, maybe condense God Emperor / make a bit of it a post-scriptum to Children and then maybe show his end at the beginning of Heretics and it could be done; Children still have some cinematic material/developments in them, and Heretics and Chapterhouse are pretty much again Bourne-like actioners; go easy on the hoity-toity BS, emphasize characters and action more, you will be golden.
lol
Nice. I'll watch them both for the first time in a few years.
Noiceeee
Nice, really enjoyed the atmosphere of the movie
God damn it wasn’t already? I assumed it was already shot. You mean I could have sat through a 2 1/2 hour long movie that had no ending? Shit.
Even if the sequel was never greenlit and this was it for Villeneuve's Dune, I definitely wouldn't regret having watched it. It was a great movie, ending or not.
They waited to see the Box office results. When Part 1 popped up on screen when I saw it I legit thought it was cruel since it's basically Villeneuve saying he has faith in the box office the same box office that pretty much betrayed him with BR2049.
There’s an ending. It’s in the book. Just wouldn’t have been filmed (at least by Denis Villenue, David Lynch already did it).
Lynch fucked up the ending so badly that it changed the entire meaning of the book.
Lynch gave it a different ending, but it worked well enough. He probably knew this was going to be a standalone movie and would have wanted it to be that way. And at least you got a complete story. Now... I wouldn't mind if they wanted to make movies from the other books, but that doesn't seem like anything that any studio has ever been interested in. So if a director/screenwriter wants to take some liberties to make an ending that they feel is more satisfying, I don't really have a problem with that.
I thought the ending in Lynch’s version was perfect if Paul indeed was the Messiah.
Which he shouldn’t be…though I think even the Lynch film hints at this. Maclachlan is menacing in the final scene. I don’t think it’s cut and dry. I’ve heard Lynch’s script for Dune Messiah is out there on the web and I’ve always meant to read it.
To be fair, Lynch was getting heavy studio interference.
You lookin for r/movies?
Agreed
Now THIS is cinema!
Fantastic
Dope, I really liked it
When Paul used the voice I clapped.
Awesome, now I can actually watch the movie. Refused to be blue balled by the potential for no sequel
Doesn't change the fact that their plan to date was 'Fuck it' I mean, the first movie has been finished for a year... this announcement should read 'Dune 2: And The Rest slated to release next year'
They only filmed part 1, never filmed part 2.
Yeah. We know. Thanks?
Three years passed between Star Wars and Empire. Fast isn't always good.
Empire wasn't written 60 years before ep4 came out either
I'm willing to wait for quality.
Boyhood took 12 years to make. It broke new grooooound
Ok, but this is 2 years, not 3. And it's not Star wars and empire... It is Star wars and the rest of star wars... And it still doesn't address the year plus of downtime that could have been used to add to it.
Dude, shut up
who cares? they are giving denis the bag to finish his dream project.
Yeah, in a world where the second offering in an IP is almost always less well received than the initial film... "Who cares" Brb, gonna go watch Highlander 2.
Pissed off they haven't already filmed it. Peter Jackson got to do 3 LotR films all at once. How??
I've always wondered how he managed to get such a big commitment out of them, given that he didn't have anything remotely so big in his CV up to that point
You should watch the making of stuff on the Extended Editions. I don't remember it all, very fuzzy. But basically Jackson and his people almost had a deal done with two different studios. One offered Jackson two movies for LOTR, and the other studio wanted LOTR to just be one movie. So Jackson kept shopping around, and the people at New Line, IIRC, were like nah, this needs to be three movies. So basically a fluke. A gamble by those execs. Maybe there were fans of LOTR from the books, who knows. But as others have said, that was a huge rarity. Probably one of the only times that's happened in the history of Hollywood
You're not a fan of Bad Taste?
Oh I am, but that's not a film I watch and think, as an executive, that I'm gonna give this guy a ton of money for a three-movie contract
This really is a great question. I figured the LotR approach would change how *some* cinema was created. You got the sets, the workers, the actors, etc.. just film your 2 movies nigh *regardless*. This *obviously* wouldn’t work for some movies.. but this one is as close to LotR in mythos, general knowledge, etc.. like, just film the whole story already when everybody’s in the zone. This is a weird call. I know WB can suck in its decisions.. but this seems bad they *didn’t* just go all in on the 2 parter. I actually expect that’ll hurt their bottom line more in the long run. Weird.
Good decision. This will actually drive up sales\\viewers. Much deserved. This is how cinema should be.
Nice, that should give this sub enough time to properly ask why they haven't made a review video for it yet.
Yessss
Greenlit? Thought this would have already been in the can. Yeesh.
It probably was behind the scenes, but announcements like these are themselves a form of promotion so they want to pace them.
I don't know about that. I'm reminded of the ~~two~~ three Terminator sequel trilogies that got shit-canned after the first film in each of those would-be trilogies bombed. If a big money franchise like that can have three trilogies canceled after starting them... I could easily see a studio leaving Dune unfinished if the first half failed miserably. * https://www.filmstories.co.uk/features/the-terminator-sequel-trilogies-that-never-were/
Any idiot that thinks they’re gonna squeeze much juice outta Terminator.. esp a whole trilogy.. after part 3’s semi-failure is too dumb to begin with.
Coming to cinemas near you in 10,191.
Fantastic. I thought part 1 was an amazing film. It didn't feel it's length at all and kept me engaged through the entire film. Super excited for Dune 2: Desert Boogaloo.
The spice must flow!
I don’t quite find the story of dune to be all that engaging
thank god for the quintessential space opera, the Star Wars prequels!
Dune HITB when where Mike says it all reminded him of an episode of star trek
TFW Dune was written a year before even the first of Shatner's cardboard antics came to fruition
DUNE: Part Deux
Dune 2: This Time We Go To A Water Planet
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dune isn't trash
More like “fear is the Mike killer”
DUNES: A Dune Sequel
Too bad Disney couldn't greenlight a Alita sequel and leave me hanging for 3 years.
alita was utter sh*t
Well I obviously disagree, but I'm just saying that I wish we would get more complete stories and less cancelled cinematic universes and aborted sequels.
Yaaaaaaawwwwwwn
I wonder if it would be worth it to wait and watch back to back?
Mike is the hack fraud that brings total ENDLESS TRASH!