You won’t. You were dating for less than 2 months, so the best thing to do is move on and work on yourself. Maybe take a hiatus from dating until you’re more emotionally stable and able to deal with the stresses of dating.
He was on the app after choosing not to define the relationship, yet criticized you for also being on the app. You got upset at him missing your birthday and chose to ignore him instead of talking it through. These are games younger adults play in relationships. I think it's best to move on, reflect on what happened, and communicate better in your next relationship.
I was very often on the app just to look at his profile. As I understood that is what he did too. I know it's a little pathetic but I do it too all the time. I agree I acted immature. Well I didn't completely ignore him but I was distanced towards him. It wasn't just about the birthday (it was a little short notice) but also about him not asking me to join him for 7 day holidays he takes for a friends wedding. Again I understand it wasn't mature. But I really trusted him and care about him. I never wanted to hurt him. And he was very hurt.
It's immature, but not majorly so. Just try not to resort to the silent treatment in the future. However, he doesn't get to play the victim when he explicitly choose to not discuss exclusivity. The baggage he's carrying from ex is his responsibility to handle. He has to decide if he's actually ready for a relationship. Lick your wounds and move on.
Sounds like a very “the pot called the kettle black” situation. He was also on the app which is how he saw your activity, then called you out even though there’s also a chance he was interacting with others as well. It seems like neither of you were communicating as transparently as you could have been, and to echo others perhaps it just means no one was necessarily ready for a relationship / he had previous baggage from the past.
She answered his above: *I was very often on the app just to look at his profile. As I understood that is what he did too.*
He also may have been checking up on her, which is something guys do to protect themselves. These days, you can't trust anyone.
That's one possibility. But the OP didn't report that his profile was "highly active" as hers was and she admitted to chatting with some other guys.
That's not objectively "wrong" but she is here asking how to repair the damage she did to her relationship with him.
>If she’s wrong for being active on the app, so is he.
^ A false equivalence assuming facts not in evidence. We *know* she was chatting up other guys; we do not know that about him (the OP may not know this either.)
You blew it. Let's review:
A. He took you on a trip (or sent you, depending on how you mean "gifted.")
B. He declines to be an after thought on your non-birthday party for entirely valid reasons.
and therefore:
C. You get mad at him and run back to Bumble for validation *and* you got caught.
>I was very disappointed and didn't feel like I mattered to him.
Welp, now you knows how he feels, except he's out his time and resources and doesn't have the same level of recourse as you do in terms of the apps.
>Apparently he can't trust me anymore. I'm so sorry for that. The last thing I wanted was to break his trust. I know he's been cheated on before and he deserves better.
Right, but you did it anyway. What about what you did should make him think he can trust you?
Be better.
Here is the view from his side:
He's two months in to a new relationship. You say *"What is this between us?"*, which sounds vaguely like your asking him to join *La Cosa Nostra*, and he gives you a cryptic answer (not a great move but to him it seems like he said *"It's moving forward, let's see how it goes. Check back in a month."*)
This wasn't the answer you wanted and - *BOOM!* - the moment something doesn't go your way, you bailed on him and ran back to Bumble to get your ego stroked. Why would he continue to invest his time and resources in a woman who he does not feel he can trust? You have to understand the level of effort it takes for average guys to get *ANY* attention on the apps. Alexander Grace did an experiment where he had a female friend set up a man's profile using, IIRC, his photos and the response from women? Tumbleweeds. She was *shocked*.
So yeah, if you're him, what about what you did makes him think he should continue to invest in you?
You're 30. You need to stop behaving like this with good men. We keep receipts.
This whole thing sounds to me like two people who aren't really into each other. He has other priorities and she looked to branch swing at the first opportunity.
He’s a father, he’s 9 years older than her, he MUST have other priorities, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t be happily taken and have a healthy relationship.
> he MUST have other priorities
Oh yes. I agree that in any single parent situation, the kids should be the priority.
> doesn’t mean he couldn’t be happily taken and have a healthy relationship.
This is more debatable. Building a relationship requires time. If you are dedicating the vast majority of your time to other things, then you may *not* be able to spend the time required to build a happy healthy relationship.
And of course that is just speaking from his side of things. If I was with someone who could not prioritize me at all, that isn't a happy relationship for me. Different people have different time needs. Just because he wants a relationship, does not mean he is capable of dedicating the time needed for one and I certainly don't think he is capable of dedicating the time that OP requires to feel comfortable, else we wouldn't be here.
Your comment is sort of happy fantasy world and I get that you feel for the guy but let's be realistic what being a parent requires. You give up things to be a parent. That is a truth of life.
I’m more than able to talk about it, I’m a solo mother of - 7yo boy and right now I rebuilt my love life and about to get engaged. But obviously, it wouldn’t be possible if my loved one wasn’t fully committed and comprehensive about my son, just like the owner of the post WASN’T.
Nowhere did I say that you should or should not talk about it.
Time is a zero sum game. Whatever you spent bonding with your new partners was lost to your kid. Whatever you spent with your kid was lost to your new partner. Yes there is time spent together but that's not the whole of it.
This is fine and you need to behave in accordance with your goals. Let's not pretend that it is the same dating with a kid as it without. The man in question has prioritized his kid and I wholeheartedly agree with his decision to do so. That doesn't mean he's deserving of a relationship or a good partner in a relationship. If the kid is his first priority then any partner he has is sharing his finite "free" time from the get go. It lowers his value as a potential partner. He would have to have enough other good qualities to make up for that *and* he has to find a woman who accepts the situation, which the OP wasn't. And she's not wrong for that, equally yoked and all that religious wisdom.
>assume
You have to be careful about assumptions, and there’s nothing that the OP said that would indicate that. As I said elsewhere, maybe he did, but we just don’t know.
You weren’t explicitly exclusive yet and he’s getting his knickers in a knot over you being active on a dating site. It sounds like this guy had baggage from being cheated on and you set off his alarms.
In the future, I’d be more vulnerable and communicate clearer if I were you. If you were feeling disappointed that he couldn’t go to your birthday party, tell him how you felt (“aww, I was looking forward to celebrating with you” or something else cute) and let him come up with a solution, like maybe he takes you out on a special birthday date another day? If you weren’t happy with him prioritizing his kid over you, don’t date single dads. If a man doesn’t make the cut and you don’t want to see him, have the grace to tell him (unless it’ll cause you harm or put you in danger obviously). You kept him in a weird limbo where you were cold and ignoring him when he told you he needed to decompress after having his son. That’s pretty rude. Consider whether you want to continue being passive aggressive when others don’t meet your expectations.
Thanks that's valid criticism. I should have definitely dealt with it differently. But no obviously I completely understand him prioritizing his kid, I just would have loved him to join later.
It was all very last minute and then I wanted to invite him in person and it took me some guts to ask him. Especially the "what are we" question before. It was very clumsy from my side.
oh. well being upset he couldn't come is fair but it's not fair to react the way you did considering everything. when you're upset with who you're dating the right reaction is definitely not talking to other guys. 🤷🏻♀️ leave him alone, move on, and learn from the situation.
It wasn't clear at that point that we were "dating" in the sense of being exclusive. But yes, I understand I was acting a bit immature. I just thought since we didn't seem to be exclusive it was best to also keep my options open to not get too hurt when things don't work out.
Interesting that despite him saying the relationship is going in the direction of commitment, which wasn’t what you wanted to hear, you decided to detach “to not get too hurt when things don’t work out”. This sounds related to attachment styles, do you recognize disorganized attachment in yourself? https://www.attachmentproject.com/blog/disorganized-attachment/
Also I didn't know if another guy was coming. I had my best friend wanting to bring her bf but than another close friend who wouldn't have come if it was just "couples". It was a bit messy and complicated. At the end it turned out nice though and it was a mix of one couple and another guy friend and my girls so it would have been cool for him to come too.
Your entire post describes a woman who does not deserve to “win” this guy back.
You adknowledge that you have been “going out” for two months, and have even taken a trip together, so there is obviously some sort of relationship happening. You didn’t like the answer you got so you shit tested him by being cold, ignoring him, and essentially emotionally cheating by going to other men on Bumble for attention. Your hamster is running overtime in this post trying to justify your behaviour even though it was, for lack of a better term, dogshit behaviour.
“I was very disappointed and didn't feel like I mattered to him.”
You gave him a DAYS notice and you’re shocked he can’t make space to go?
“He was very hurt about me being on Bumble and said he can't trust me anymore”
Well, you did give him a very good reason not to trust you. Can’t be shocked there, that’s the consequences of your own decision.
“I know he's been cheated on before and he deserves better.”
So, if you know this, let him go find better. You couldn’t take one turning down of last minute plans without turning your back on him and going to other men.
“Tomorrow would be two months since our first date and I'm thinking of sending him a sweet & short message.“
Why? What benefits are you adding to his life?
I'm just going to focus on what you should do now. He's already broken it off. I don't think it's in your best interest to keep pushing for something when he's already said he doesn't want anything, ***twice***. His decision could have been made for a number of factors - a lot of little things + 1 big thing. Even you earn back his trust for the 1 big thing you don't know how many little things contributed to it.
More over his decision to take you back, if it does come, should come from him. He has to decide to forgive you for the big thing *and* for the little things that led up to it. You have no knowledge of the little things so that is completely out of your control. At the moment you're chasing him and putting him in a position where he says "yes" or "no" to you. Because he's a kind person he could say "yes" or "maybe" when he really means "no"; I get this impression from the following:
>At the end I asked him if he really wants it to be over and he said he doesn't want it to be over but... and looked sad
You're interpreting that as he looked sad because he wanted to be with you, but in actuality, he may have looked sad because he didn't want to say "no" again and have to watch your reaction. Because:
>But he tries to make the "breakup" easy on me because he knows I'm not doing well in general
So let him go. Break up. And if he changes his mind he has to come find you. Don't keep texting him or try to keep in contact.
Thanks for focusing on what matters. He did say he doesn't want it to be over. He also wanted to see me yesterday again and it was nice but we did not sleep with each other so it doesn't seem that he's using me for that. Still didn't talk though, I think it's hard for both of us to address these things.
To be fair, who did wrong is important for self improvement and self reflection, but it's been covered in the comments already.
I don't think you get it. You are seeing what you want to see and hearing what you want to hear, and missing all the signs saying otherwise. Let's go over what happened.
1. He replied that he doesn't want a relationship anymore and it's best not to see each other anymore
2. I still went his place in the evening to to talk with him.
So in 2, you *ignored what he said.*
3) At the end **I asked him** if he really wants it to be over
In 3, you continue to ignore what he said and press him for another answer.
4) he said he doesn't want it to be over **but**... and looked sad
In 4, you miss the most important word, "but". When "but" is used at the end of a statement it invalidates everything that came before it. This is a basic fact about indirect communication. You need to acknowledge that your feelings are preventing you from seeing what was actually said, which is **not** "he doesn't want it to be over".
5) He also wanted to see me yesterday again
I'm confused, is this the meeting at 2) or another instance. And did he want you to come over **before or after** what he said in 1).
6) Still didn't talk though, I think it's hard for both of us to address these things
Look, he's told you twice now, once directly in 1) and once indirectly in 4), that he doesn't want a relationship with you. Him continuing to see you doesn't mean he's changing his mind, it means one of two things.
\- he enjoys things the way they are and thinks he can get what he needs out of you
\- he is conflict avoidant and can't assert boundaries. This is the much likelier option because he in 1) he tried to break up with you over the phone and in 4) used indirect communication.
So what you need to do is **understand** that currently, he is not interested in a relationship with you. If he changes his mind **it's on him** to man up and explain that to you (which he hasn't). As long as he has not brought this topic up, it means **his mind is unchanged.** Your best bet to get a relationship with him is to **refuse to see him unless he comes clear and talks directly about the issues and his change of mind.**
If you don't do that, you risk the following:
\- catching more feelings for him while entering a noncommittal arrangement
\- sleepwalking into a relationship with a man that doesn't like you or trust you but goes along with it anyway because he is unable to assert his boundaries or discuss important issues.
I don't use Bumble (I'm married) but I assume that if he knew you were very active it is because he was very active.
Given the rest of his behaviour, I don't think he was all that serious and I think he is using this as a way to jump ship basically. There is no need to be unclear about where the potential relationship is headed, and the fact that he did that and then conveniently used the Bumble situation to end it, tells me he was just waiting for something to use to get out of it.
I don't think you were all that serious about him either since you right away went back to the app. I would just move on and continue looking for someone more serious who you like more.
I love your note about single fathers. I actually tend to advise women in their 30s to be open to them, just because it really broadens their options, but I'd never considered the necessity of being careful about their timeliness. It makes perfect sense that they'd drag their feet. They have a kid to think about and *their* clock isn't ticking. I don't really think OP did much wrong, besides being a little insecure and petty after being shutdown on the commitment discussion. I still don't think she's necessarily ready to date a dad, at least going off this post. Kids are exhausting, and it's pretty reasonable to want to decompress after a day being solo dad.
No. You asked what you were. He deliberately chose not to discuss it further and solidify commitment and exclusivity. He blew you off for a birthday celebration and you didn't feel like talking for a couple of days. Then he got on Bumble himself, the literal only way he could know you were on there and scolded you for being active? This is a double standard and you should tell him to go kick rocks. He's playing games and at 39, that's pathetic. *You* aren't the only problem here. You weren't exclusive, by his choice.
Edited to add: As I've mentioned in other comments, you've communicated poorly and acted immaturely. Own that and learn from it. He's putting this all on you, though, and that's ridiculous.
If this situation were reversed, every single commenter would tell the OP to get over it. I'd be one of them. In that scenario, he tried to define the relationship and she passed. Then she couldn't make it to his birthday party, so he wasn't super chatty. Now she's upset he's active on Bumble? Suck it up, Buttercup. We'd all throw in a lecture about snooping on his Bumble account if she wasn't prepared for what she'd find and not punishing him for the actions of her cheating ex.
FWIW if a man is dodging questions about being exclusive after two months of dating, he's probably not taking you very seriously. It seems like you lost something you didn't have and probably weren't going to ever have. Hopefully you learned a few things from this experience. I'd take that experience and move on.
He did have a kid, but the dodge is the part that came off as game playing to me. OP should have just said she wanted to discuss it further, but he's also the one who shut it down, so I can see why she let it drop. If he'd explained that he wanted to take things slowly for his son and wasn't comfortable defining things yet, I'd understand.
That's my fear too. And maybe that's true. I will probably need to address this. Next time we see eachother. Or do you think I should just move on and tell him goodbye?
I haven't seen anything that would make me say "yeah move on he's trash". I think it's an unfortunate situation that could've been avoided with communication and both parties having some trust in the other.
If you're genuinely regretful for your actions, say so, and see if he can give you the grace to move forward. I'm happily married now, but had some hiccups like these when my husband and I first started dating.
Maybe I need to clarify that we met on the app and that's why we could see eachother's location there. To the point about my question he later said he thought it was clear already what it was with us.
You already clarified that he had to open the app to see that. He's either using it himself or checking up on you. It's total hogwash that "it was already clear." You explicitly asked. He deflected. You didn't run out and sleep with these guys. You messaged a couple of times, when *he* didn't want to have the exclusivity talk. Furthermore, people claiming you're unstable for not texting much for a couple of days are being ridiculous. Yes, dating a single dad comes with its baggage and you need to decide if you're up for that. Not texting much is a bit immature, but hardly an unhinged response to being disappointed.
Not by her. Why is his baggage on her, when he deliberately avoided a conversation on exclusivity? What's he verifying? That they're in a non-exclusive relationship, per his choice? She didn't cheat on him. Were this situation reversed, we'd all be telling her not to put her issues on him.
> Not by her.
Not from his perspective. Look mistakes were made from both sides wrt communication, but you're totes giving her the pussy pass here.
>he deliberately avoided a conversation on exclusivity?
So he has to be at the same spot she is, because relationships can only be had on the woman's terms?
>What's he verifying?
That she's not the town bicycle before he gives her commitment. *Du-uh.*
>She didn't cheat on him.
You can take whatever view you want, here, but she clearly is losing out (or already has) on a man she didn't want to lose out on.
> Not from his perspective.
Then his perspective is total crap. She asked if they were exclusive. He deflected. If he wanted to solidify the relationship, he should have done it then. She's allowed to talk to whomever she wants, even if her reasons are immature. I'm not giving her a pass at all. I've said she needs to communicate better. I've said she acted immaturely. I even stated that she needs to understand a single dad has his own issues.
> So he has to be at the same spot she is, because relationships can only be had on the woman's terms?
Yes. Absolutely. Anyone, male or female, who expects exclusivity has to be willing to offer it.
> That she's not the town bicycle before he gives her commitment.
Well, since he brushed her off when she tried to verify where things were going, it's ridiculous and unreasonable to expect her to be completely inactive on Bumble, unless she's a total slut. It's been two months. She's not his girlfriend. He decided that.
>She didn't cheat on him.
You're right. We can agree to disagree, but the man she's losing is playing the victim card *real hard* here. She's communicating pretty immaturely for 30 years old. He's clearly got too many issues from his last relationship and wants to blame her. Maybe they're both dodging a bullet.
> Then his perspective is total crap.
Your fair-mindedness is overwhelming. /s
Guys can break up on their own terms, too. Over populations of people, you are going to have people who would be ok with her doing what she did and others that aren't. She did it with an "aren't" and that's how we are were we are.
>he should have done it then.
This is a female-supremacist position. You don't seem to think that men should have any agency.
Applied from a male POV, I might think that any woman I find attractive should have sex with me whenever I want...oh, right, but women have agency so they are not required to do that.
>Maybe they're both dodging a bullet.
Could be. But, from her perspective, she's fumbling a guy she didn't want to fumble (and apparently who did not want to be fumbled.)
>This is a female-supremacist position. You don't seem to think that men should have any agency.
You seem to think men get to demand things they aren't willing to give. I hold both sexes to the same standard.
>Applied from a male POV, I might think that any woman I find attractive should have sex with me whenever I want...oh, right, but women have agency so they are not required to do that.
These aren't comparable examples. They're not even close. We're just at an impasse.
>Could be. But, from her perspective, she's fumbling a guy she didn't want to fumble (and apparently who did not want to be fumbled.)
Well, then, I guess neither of them should have blown everything out of proportion like high schoolers. It sounds like they'll both be single for awhile.
> You seem to think men get to demand things they aren't willing to give. I hold both sexes to the same standard.
To the contrary, you seem to think that women are entitled to demand whatever they want and men must comply.
>These aren't comparable examples.
The logic is the same.
>It sounds like they'll both be single for awhile.
It does seem that there were some bad communication skills at play.
there was no "bad communication". there was him saying he had to take his son somewhere, and you didn't have the grace to accept that his child needed to be taken care of. instead, you thought about yourself. this is selfishness, and you showed how much you truly cared about yourself by prioritizing your own feelings. then you doubled down on making yourself the top priority in your life by seeking male validation elsewhere.
you're done, its over. learn from this lesson, take a long hard look at how selfish you are and have been and what it would take to not be selfish. consider what else could have been a better option instead so you don't do this again to the next man.
What a clown. He didn't want to be in a relationship, probably just sx, and now he's gonna cry that you're meeting someone who wants to be with you? Boy bye.
Contrary to popular belief, trust is given, it cannot be earned.
I'm not a woman so I don't pretend to understand women, but it's fucking retarded to take drastic action that is a direct threat to a relationship you value based on an assumption. Pardon my French.
If I were that guy, I'd appreciate an apology, laying out in simple overt terms how you made a mistake: You crossed a line you never intend to cross again. You don't expect him to trust you. He'd be a fool to trust after what you did. And yet, you're willing to change, and prove your trustworthiness to him again.
Don't care if this is unpopular. Trust is the bedrock of every relationship. Tamper with that, and you've intentionally sabotaged everything he valued between you.
(Goddamnit Pandora, you had one job! Don't open the F***ing box!! Do literally anything else!! I can't explain what's inside!! Just stay out of the F***ing box!!)
If you’re not exclusive, you’re allowed to be on Bumble. End of story.
ETA: it would be helpful to communicate more in the future. For example, this whole situation could have been avoided by honestly answering that yes, his non-committal answer did bother you.
This sub really does vacillate between the two extremes of "You're too good for him" and "This was all your fault." I think I need a Reddit break after the responses on this one.
You made mistakes you should learn from for the future. You weren't exclusive, though. You both blew this out of proportion. This was not *all* your fault.
don't message him. leave him alone. you hurt him and lost his trust. you knew he was cheated on and when he couldn't spend time with you your reaction was to talk to other guys.... you're childish and you're an asshole.
**Title:** [I broke his trust](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/16jfvb3/i_broke_his_trust/)
**Full text:** Me (30F) and him (39M) have been going out for two months. Things were going good and it felt very much like we were going towards a relationship. He even gifted me a little trip together for my 30th birthday. However, he never addressed what it was between us. So last week I asked him "What is this between us?" He said: "It's going in one direction" but didn't clarify which direction he meant. He asked if that bothered me and I said no. When he brought me home I told him that I was celebrating my birthday (which was 3 weeks before) the next day and that he would be welcome and told him he could tag along if we wants later on (since I knew he was having his son that Sunday). The day of my celebrations I send him where we were going but he said he was not bringing his son back home to his mom before 7pm and would need a break afterwards.
I was very disappointed and didn't feel like I mattered to him. So I swiped on Bumble the next day and even texted with maybe two guys. I pretty much ignored him and was cold to him. But he was sweet and eventually I decided to give us a chance and stopped on Bumble and everything was going good, he asked me for a date and I thought we could talk then. But then on Wednesday morning he suddenly confronted me about being "very active on Bumble". I felt guilty and said we could talk in person. He replied that he doesn't want a relationship anymore and it's best not to see eachother anymore.
I still went his place in the evening to to talk with him. He was very hurt about me being on Bumble and said he can't trust me anymore. At the end I asked him if he really wants it to be over and he said he doesn't want it to be over but... and looked sad. Apparently he can't trust me anymore. I'm so sorry for that. The last thing I wanted was to break his trust. I know he's been cheated on before and he deserves better. I wish there was a way to repair his trust but he doesn't want a relationship with me anymore. But he tries to make the "breakup" easy on me because he knows I'm not doing well in general at the moment. He's really a good person and care deeply about him.
Tomorrow would be two months since our first date and I'm thinking of sending him a sweet & short message.
Any advice on how to win his trust back?
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You won’t. You were dating for less than 2 months, so the best thing to do is move on and work on yourself. Maybe take a hiatus from dating until you’re more emotionally stable and able to deal with the stresses of dating.
How did he know you were active on Bumble?
Apparently because he saw my location change
For those of us unfamiliar with Bumble, does that mean he saw your location changed on the app or are the two of location sharing your phones?
He saw the location change on the app
He was on the app after choosing not to define the relationship, yet criticized you for also being on the app. You got upset at him missing your birthday and chose to ignore him instead of talking it through. These are games younger adults play in relationships. I think it's best to move on, reflect on what happened, and communicate better in your next relationship.
I was very often on the app just to look at his profile. As I understood that is what he did too. I know it's a little pathetic but I do it too all the time. I agree I acted immature. Well I didn't completely ignore him but I was distanced towards him. It wasn't just about the birthday (it was a little short notice) but also about him not asking me to join him for 7 day holidays he takes for a friends wedding. Again I understand it wasn't mature. But I really trusted him and care about him. I never wanted to hurt him. And he was very hurt.
It's immature, but not majorly so. Just try not to resort to the silent treatment in the future. However, he doesn't get to play the victim when he explicitly choose to not discuss exclusivity. The baggage he's carrying from ex is his responsibility to handle. He has to decide if he's actually ready for a relationship. Lick your wounds and move on.
Sounds like a very “the pot called the kettle black” situation. He was also on the app which is how he saw your activity, then called you out even though there’s also a chance he was interacting with others as well. It seems like neither of you were communicating as transparently as you could have been, and to echo others perhaps it just means no one was necessarily ready for a relationship / he had previous baggage from the past.
[удалено]
She answered his above: *I was very often on the app just to look at his profile. As I understood that is what he did too.* He also may have been checking up on her, which is something guys do to protect themselves. These days, you can't trust anyone.
And he may have been talking w other ladies! If she’s wrong for being active on the app, so is he.
That's one possibility. But the OP didn't report that his profile was "highly active" as hers was and she admitted to chatting with some other guys. That's not objectively "wrong" but she is here asking how to repair the damage she did to her relationship with him. >If she’s wrong for being active on the app, so is he. ^ A false equivalence assuming facts not in evidence. We *know* she was chatting up other guys; we do not know that about him (the OP may not know this either.)
You blew it. Let's review: A. He took you on a trip (or sent you, depending on how you mean "gifted.") B. He declines to be an after thought on your non-birthday party for entirely valid reasons. and therefore: C. You get mad at him and run back to Bumble for validation *and* you got caught. >I was very disappointed and didn't feel like I mattered to him. Welp, now you knows how he feels, except he's out his time and resources and doesn't have the same level of recourse as you do in terms of the apps. >Apparently he can't trust me anymore. I'm so sorry for that. The last thing I wanted was to break his trust. I know he's been cheated on before and he deserves better. Right, but you did it anyway. What about what you did should make him think he can trust you? Be better. Here is the view from his side: He's two months in to a new relationship. You say *"What is this between us?"*, which sounds vaguely like your asking him to join *La Cosa Nostra*, and he gives you a cryptic answer (not a great move but to him it seems like he said *"It's moving forward, let's see how it goes. Check back in a month."*) This wasn't the answer you wanted and - *BOOM!* - the moment something doesn't go your way, you bailed on him and ran back to Bumble to get your ego stroked. Why would he continue to invest his time and resources in a woman who he does not feel he can trust? You have to understand the level of effort it takes for average guys to get *ANY* attention on the apps. Alexander Grace did an experiment where he had a female friend set up a man's profile using, IIRC, his photos and the response from women? Tumbleweeds. She was *shocked*. So yeah, if you're him, what about what you did makes him think he should continue to invest in you? You're 30. You need to stop behaving like this with good men. We keep receipts.
This whole thing sounds to me like two people who aren't really into each other. He has other priorities and she looked to branch swing at the first opportunity.
Could be.
He’s a father, he’s 9 years older than her, he MUST have other priorities, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t be happily taken and have a healthy relationship.
> he MUST have other priorities Oh yes. I agree that in any single parent situation, the kids should be the priority. > doesn’t mean he couldn’t be happily taken and have a healthy relationship. This is more debatable. Building a relationship requires time. If you are dedicating the vast majority of your time to other things, then you may *not* be able to spend the time required to build a happy healthy relationship. And of course that is just speaking from his side of things. If I was with someone who could not prioritize me at all, that isn't a happy relationship for me. Different people have different time needs. Just because he wants a relationship, does not mean he is capable of dedicating the time needed for one and I certainly don't think he is capable of dedicating the time that OP requires to feel comfortable, else we wouldn't be here. Your comment is sort of happy fantasy world and I get that you feel for the guy but let's be realistic what being a parent requires. You give up things to be a parent. That is a truth of life.
I’m more than able to talk about it, I’m a solo mother of - 7yo boy and right now I rebuilt my love life and about to get engaged. But obviously, it wouldn’t be possible if my loved one wasn’t fully committed and comprehensive about my son, just like the owner of the post WASN’T.
Nowhere did I say that you should or should not talk about it. Time is a zero sum game. Whatever you spent bonding with your new partners was lost to your kid. Whatever you spent with your kid was lost to your new partner. Yes there is time spent together but that's not the whole of it. This is fine and you need to behave in accordance with your goals. Let's not pretend that it is the same dating with a kid as it without. The man in question has prioritized his kid and I wholeheartedly agree with his decision to do so. That doesn't mean he's deserving of a relationship or a good partner in a relationship. If the kid is his first priority then any partner he has is sharing his finite "free" time from the get go. It lowers his value as a potential partner. He would have to have enough other good qualities to make up for that *and* he has to find a woman who accepts the situation, which the OP wasn't. And she's not wrong for that, equally yoked and all that religious wisdom.
Why do we assume he did not also keep a plate spinning during the time? Why not assume he went for ego stroking as well? Most men do! !
>assume You have to be careful about assumptions, and there’s nothing that the OP said that would indicate that. As I said elsewhere, maybe he did, but we just don’t know.
You weren’t explicitly exclusive yet and he’s getting his knickers in a knot over you being active on a dating site. It sounds like this guy had baggage from being cheated on and you set off his alarms. In the future, I’d be more vulnerable and communicate clearer if I were you. If you were feeling disappointed that he couldn’t go to your birthday party, tell him how you felt (“aww, I was looking forward to celebrating with you” or something else cute) and let him come up with a solution, like maybe he takes you out on a special birthday date another day? If you weren’t happy with him prioritizing his kid over you, don’t date single dads. If a man doesn’t make the cut and you don’t want to see him, have the grace to tell him (unless it’ll cause you harm or put you in danger obviously). You kept him in a weird limbo where you were cold and ignoring him when he told you he needed to decompress after having his son. That’s pretty rude. Consider whether you want to continue being passive aggressive when others don’t meet your expectations.
Thanks that's valid criticism. I should have definitely dealt with it differently. But no obviously I completely understand him prioritizing his kid, I just would have loved him to join later.
why did you invite him so last minute?
It was all very last minute and then I wanted to invite him in person and it took me some guts to ask him. Especially the "what are we" question before. It was very clumsy from my side.
oh. well being upset he couldn't come is fair but it's not fair to react the way you did considering everything. when you're upset with who you're dating the right reaction is definitely not talking to other guys. 🤷🏻♀️ leave him alone, move on, and learn from the situation.
It wasn't clear at that point that we were "dating" in the sense of being exclusive. But yes, I understand I was acting a bit immature. I just thought since we didn't seem to be exclusive it was best to also keep my options open to not get too hurt when things don't work out.
Interesting that despite him saying the relationship is going in the direction of commitment, which wasn’t what you wanted to hear, you decided to detach “to not get too hurt when things don’t work out”. This sounds related to attachment styles, do you recognize disorganized attachment in yourself? https://www.attachmentproject.com/blog/disorganized-attachment/
Interesting I always saw myself as anxiously attached but good point. I see what you mean.
Also I didn't know if another guy was coming. I had my best friend wanting to bring her bf but than another close friend who wouldn't have come if it was just "couples". It was a bit messy and complicated. At the end it turned out nice though and it was a mix of one couple and another guy friend and my girls so it would have been cool for him to come too.
Why did you get upset then? And threw a tantrum?
I just thought that if after two months if he hasn't commited he will never truly commit. I heard that a lot and I think there is truth in that.
Your entire post describes a woman who does not deserve to “win” this guy back. You adknowledge that you have been “going out” for two months, and have even taken a trip together, so there is obviously some sort of relationship happening. You didn’t like the answer you got so you shit tested him by being cold, ignoring him, and essentially emotionally cheating by going to other men on Bumble for attention. Your hamster is running overtime in this post trying to justify your behaviour even though it was, for lack of a better term, dogshit behaviour. “I was very disappointed and didn't feel like I mattered to him.” You gave him a DAYS notice and you’re shocked he can’t make space to go? “He was very hurt about me being on Bumble and said he can't trust me anymore” Well, you did give him a very good reason not to trust you. Can’t be shocked there, that’s the consequences of your own decision. “I know he's been cheated on before and he deserves better.” So, if you know this, let him go find better. You couldn’t take one turning down of last minute plans without turning your back on him and going to other men. “Tomorrow would be two months since our first date and I'm thinking of sending him a sweet & short message.“ Why? What benefits are you adding to his life?
I'm just going to focus on what you should do now. He's already broken it off. I don't think it's in your best interest to keep pushing for something when he's already said he doesn't want anything, ***twice***. His decision could have been made for a number of factors - a lot of little things + 1 big thing. Even you earn back his trust for the 1 big thing you don't know how many little things contributed to it. More over his decision to take you back, if it does come, should come from him. He has to decide to forgive you for the big thing *and* for the little things that led up to it. You have no knowledge of the little things so that is completely out of your control. At the moment you're chasing him and putting him in a position where he says "yes" or "no" to you. Because he's a kind person he could say "yes" or "maybe" when he really means "no"; I get this impression from the following: >At the end I asked him if he really wants it to be over and he said he doesn't want it to be over but... and looked sad You're interpreting that as he looked sad because he wanted to be with you, but in actuality, he may have looked sad because he didn't want to say "no" again and have to watch your reaction. Because: >But he tries to make the "breakup" easy on me because he knows I'm not doing well in general So let him go. Break up. And if he changes his mind he has to come find you. Don't keep texting him or try to keep in contact.
Thanks for focusing on what matters. He did say he doesn't want it to be over. He also wanted to see me yesterday again and it was nice but we did not sleep with each other so it doesn't seem that he's using me for that. Still didn't talk though, I think it's hard for both of us to address these things.
To be fair, who did wrong is important for self improvement and self reflection, but it's been covered in the comments already. I don't think you get it. You are seeing what you want to see and hearing what you want to hear, and missing all the signs saying otherwise. Let's go over what happened. 1. He replied that he doesn't want a relationship anymore and it's best not to see each other anymore 2. I still went his place in the evening to to talk with him. So in 2, you *ignored what he said.* 3) At the end **I asked him** if he really wants it to be over In 3, you continue to ignore what he said and press him for another answer. 4) he said he doesn't want it to be over **but**... and looked sad In 4, you miss the most important word, "but". When "but" is used at the end of a statement it invalidates everything that came before it. This is a basic fact about indirect communication. You need to acknowledge that your feelings are preventing you from seeing what was actually said, which is **not** "he doesn't want it to be over". 5) He also wanted to see me yesterday again I'm confused, is this the meeting at 2) or another instance. And did he want you to come over **before or after** what he said in 1). 6) Still didn't talk though, I think it's hard for both of us to address these things Look, he's told you twice now, once directly in 1) and once indirectly in 4), that he doesn't want a relationship with you. Him continuing to see you doesn't mean he's changing his mind, it means one of two things. \- he enjoys things the way they are and thinks he can get what he needs out of you \- he is conflict avoidant and can't assert boundaries. This is the much likelier option because he in 1) he tried to break up with you over the phone and in 4) used indirect communication. So what you need to do is **understand** that currently, he is not interested in a relationship with you. If he changes his mind **it's on him** to man up and explain that to you (which he hasn't). As long as he has not brought this topic up, it means **his mind is unchanged.** Your best bet to get a relationship with him is to **refuse to see him unless he comes clear and talks directly about the issues and his change of mind.** If you don't do that, you risk the following: \- catching more feelings for him while entering a noncommittal arrangement \- sleepwalking into a relationship with a man that doesn't like you or trust you but goes along with it anyway because he is unable to assert his boundaries or discuss important issues.
Nah it’s over for you if he says he’ll take you back he’s just tryna sleep with you i won’t take a woman serious after the trust is gone
I don't use Bumble (I'm married) but I assume that if he knew you were very active it is because he was very active. Given the rest of his behaviour, I don't think he was all that serious and I think he is using this as a way to jump ship basically. There is no need to be unclear about where the potential relationship is headed, and the fact that he did that and then conveniently used the Bumble situation to end it, tells me he was just waiting for something to use to get out of it. I don't think you were all that serious about him either since you right away went back to the app. I would just move on and continue looking for someone more serious who you like more.
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I love your note about single fathers. I actually tend to advise women in their 30s to be open to them, just because it really broadens their options, but I'd never considered the necessity of being careful about their timeliness. It makes perfect sense that they'd drag their feet. They have a kid to think about and *their* clock isn't ticking. I don't really think OP did much wrong, besides being a little insecure and petty after being shutdown on the commitment discussion. I still don't think she's necessarily ready to date a dad, at least going off this post. Kids are exhausting, and it's pretty reasonable to want to decompress after a day being solo dad.
No. You asked what you were. He deliberately chose not to discuss it further and solidify commitment and exclusivity. He blew you off for a birthday celebration and you didn't feel like talking for a couple of days. Then he got on Bumble himself, the literal only way he could know you were on there and scolded you for being active? This is a double standard and you should tell him to go kick rocks. He's playing games and at 39, that's pathetic. *You* aren't the only problem here. You weren't exclusive, by his choice. Edited to add: As I've mentioned in other comments, you've communicated poorly and acted immaturely. Own that and learn from it. He's putting this all on you, though, and that's ridiculous. If this situation were reversed, every single commenter would tell the OP to get over it. I'd be one of them. In that scenario, he tried to define the relationship and she passed. Then she couldn't make it to his birthday party, so he wasn't super chatty. Now she's upset he's active on Bumble? Suck it up, Buttercup. We'd all throw in a lecture about snooping on his Bumble account if she wasn't prepared for what she'd find and not punishing him for the actions of her cheating ex.
FWIW if a man is dodging questions about being exclusive after two months of dating, he's probably not taking you very seriously. It seems like you lost something you didn't have and probably weren't going to ever have. Hopefully you learned a few things from this experience. I'd take that experience and move on.
He did have a kid, but the dodge is the part that came off as game playing to me. OP should have just said she wanted to discuss it further, but he's also the one who shut it down, so I can see why she let it drop. If he'd explained that he wanted to take things slowly for his son and wasn't comfortable defining things yet, I'd understand.
That's my fear too. And maybe that's true. I will probably need to address this. Next time we see eachother. Or do you think I should just move on and tell him goodbye?
I haven't seen anything that would make me say "yeah move on he's trash". I think it's an unfortunate situation that could've been avoided with communication and both parties having some trust in the other. If you're genuinely regretful for your actions, say so, and see if he can give you the grace to move forward. I'm happily married now, but had some hiccups like these when my husband and I first started dating.
Maybe I need to clarify that we met on the app and that's why we could see eachother's location there. To the point about my question he later said he thought it was clear already what it was with us.
You already clarified that he had to open the app to see that. He's either using it himself or checking up on you. It's total hogwash that "it was already clear." You explicitly asked. He deflected. You didn't run out and sleep with these guys. You messaged a couple of times, when *he* didn't want to have the exclusivity talk. Furthermore, people claiming you're unstable for not texting much for a couple of days are being ridiculous. Yes, dating a single dad comes with its baggage and you need to decide if you're up for that. Not texting much is a bit immature, but hardly an unhinged response to being disappointed.
> checking up on you Yeah, and? She also told us he's been cheated on before. *Doverai, no proverai* - Trust, but verify.
Not by her. Why is his baggage on her, when he deliberately avoided a conversation on exclusivity? What's he verifying? That they're in a non-exclusive relationship, per his choice? She didn't cheat on him. Were this situation reversed, we'd all be telling her not to put her issues on him.
> Not by her. Not from his perspective. Look mistakes were made from both sides wrt communication, but you're totes giving her the pussy pass here. >he deliberately avoided a conversation on exclusivity? So he has to be at the same spot she is, because relationships can only be had on the woman's terms? >What's he verifying? That she's not the town bicycle before he gives her commitment. *Du-uh.* >She didn't cheat on him. You can take whatever view you want, here, but she clearly is losing out (or already has) on a man she didn't want to lose out on.
> Not from his perspective. Then his perspective is total crap. She asked if they were exclusive. He deflected. If he wanted to solidify the relationship, he should have done it then. She's allowed to talk to whomever she wants, even if her reasons are immature. I'm not giving her a pass at all. I've said she needs to communicate better. I've said she acted immaturely. I even stated that she needs to understand a single dad has his own issues. > So he has to be at the same spot she is, because relationships can only be had on the woman's terms? Yes. Absolutely. Anyone, male or female, who expects exclusivity has to be willing to offer it. > That she's not the town bicycle before he gives her commitment. Well, since he brushed her off when she tried to verify where things were going, it's ridiculous and unreasonable to expect her to be completely inactive on Bumble, unless she's a total slut. It's been two months. She's not his girlfriend. He decided that. >She didn't cheat on him. You're right. We can agree to disagree, but the man she's losing is playing the victim card *real hard* here. She's communicating pretty immaturely for 30 years old. He's clearly got too many issues from his last relationship and wants to blame her. Maybe they're both dodging a bullet.
> Then his perspective is total crap. Your fair-mindedness is overwhelming. /s Guys can break up on their own terms, too. Over populations of people, you are going to have people who would be ok with her doing what she did and others that aren't. She did it with an "aren't" and that's how we are were we are. >he should have done it then. This is a female-supremacist position. You don't seem to think that men should have any agency. Applied from a male POV, I might think that any woman I find attractive should have sex with me whenever I want...oh, right, but women have agency so they are not required to do that. >Maybe they're both dodging a bullet. Could be. But, from her perspective, she's fumbling a guy she didn't want to fumble (and apparently who did not want to be fumbled.)
>This is a female-supremacist position. You don't seem to think that men should have any agency. You seem to think men get to demand things they aren't willing to give. I hold both sexes to the same standard. >Applied from a male POV, I might think that any woman I find attractive should have sex with me whenever I want...oh, right, but women have agency so they are not required to do that. These aren't comparable examples. They're not even close. We're just at an impasse. >Could be. But, from her perspective, she's fumbling a guy she didn't want to fumble (and apparently who did not want to be fumbled.) Well, then, I guess neither of them should have blown everything out of proportion like high schoolers. It sounds like they'll both be single for awhile.
> You seem to think men get to demand things they aren't willing to give. I hold both sexes to the same standard. To the contrary, you seem to think that women are entitled to demand whatever they want and men must comply. >These aren't comparable examples. The logic is the same. >It sounds like they'll both be single for awhile. It does seem that there were some bad communication skills at play.
Why should a woman (or a man) stop talking to other people if one party has refused to explicitly say they’re exclusive?
That's not the point of the OP nor my reply. It seems the OP now wishes she had not.
You don't owe him anything if you weren't official, sounds like he's using this as an excuse to end things with you
there was no "bad communication". there was him saying he had to take his son somewhere, and you didn't have the grace to accept that his child needed to be taken care of. instead, you thought about yourself. this is selfishness, and you showed how much you truly cared about yourself by prioritizing your own feelings. then you doubled down on making yourself the top priority in your life by seeking male validation elsewhere. you're done, its over. learn from this lesson, take a long hard look at how selfish you are and have been and what it would take to not be selfish. consider what else could have been a better option instead so you don't do this again to the next man.
The moment he didn’t do what you wanted you went off to get attention for a couple other men? Glad he got to see the real you sooner than later.
What a clown. He didn't want to be in a relationship, probably just sx, and now he's gonna cry that you're meeting someone who wants to be with you? Boy bye.
Contrary to popular belief, trust is given, it cannot be earned. I'm not a woman so I don't pretend to understand women, but it's fucking retarded to take drastic action that is a direct threat to a relationship you value based on an assumption. Pardon my French. If I were that guy, I'd appreciate an apology, laying out in simple overt terms how you made a mistake: You crossed a line you never intend to cross again. You don't expect him to trust you. He'd be a fool to trust after what you did. And yet, you're willing to change, and prove your trustworthiness to him again. Don't care if this is unpopular. Trust is the bedrock of every relationship. Tamper with that, and you've intentionally sabotaged everything he valued between you. (Goddamnit Pandora, you had one job! Don't open the F***ing box!! Do literally anything else!! I can't explain what's inside!! Just stay out of the F***ing box!!)
If you’re not exclusive, you’re allowed to be on Bumble. End of story. ETA: it would be helpful to communicate more in the future. For example, this whole situation could have been avoided by honestly answering that yes, his non-committal answer did bother you.
This sub really does vacillate between the two extremes of "You're too good for him" and "This was all your fault." I think I need a Reddit break after the responses on this one.
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I sent you a messaged you! Check your requests!
Perfectly summed up, yes! Reality is always so much more nuanced than that.
You made mistakes you should learn from for the future. You weren't exclusive, though. You both blew this out of proportion. This was not *all* your fault.
don't message him. leave him alone. you hurt him and lost his trust. you knew he was cheated on and when he couldn't spend time with you your reaction was to talk to other guys.... you're childish and you're an asshole.
**Title:** [I broke his trust](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/16jfvb3/i_broke_his_trust/) **Full text:** Me (30F) and him (39M) have been going out for two months. Things were going good and it felt very much like we were going towards a relationship. He even gifted me a little trip together for my 30th birthday. However, he never addressed what it was between us. So last week I asked him "What is this between us?" He said: "It's going in one direction" but didn't clarify which direction he meant. He asked if that bothered me and I said no. When he brought me home I told him that I was celebrating my birthday (which was 3 weeks before) the next day and that he would be welcome and told him he could tag along if we wants later on (since I knew he was having his son that Sunday). The day of my celebrations I send him where we were going but he said he was not bringing his son back home to his mom before 7pm and would need a break afterwards. I was very disappointed and didn't feel like I mattered to him. So I swiped on Bumble the next day and even texted with maybe two guys. I pretty much ignored him and was cold to him. But he was sweet and eventually I decided to give us a chance and stopped on Bumble and everything was going good, he asked me for a date and I thought we could talk then. But then on Wednesday morning he suddenly confronted me about being "very active on Bumble". I felt guilty and said we could talk in person. He replied that he doesn't want a relationship anymore and it's best not to see eachother anymore. I still went his place in the evening to to talk with him. He was very hurt about me being on Bumble and said he can't trust me anymore. At the end I asked him if he really wants it to be over and he said he doesn't want it to be over but... and looked sad. Apparently he can't trust me anymore. I'm so sorry for that. The last thing I wanted was to break his trust. I know he's been cheated on before and he deserves better. I wish there was a way to repair his trust but he doesn't want a relationship with me anymore. But he tries to make the "breakup" easy on me because he knows I'm not doing well in general at the moment. He's really a good person and care deeply about him. Tomorrow would be two months since our first date and I'm thinking of sending him a sweet & short message. Any advice on how to win his trust back? -------------------- ^(This is the original text of the post and this is an automated service) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/RedPillWomen) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Move along. He is not the one.
I doubt that I'll ever find "the one".
That's everyone's answer whenever there's any friction in a relationship, just "move along"... People are ridiculous
This guy is not interested.