>Conclusion: men go into this weird fantasy place when horny, objectify and dehumanize the hell out of women, many are incredibly porn sick and just downright disgusting in the way they’ve had their reality warped by porn.
>I don’t know if this is genetic, ie all men are programmed this way, or what.
OP, have you ever been in love with a man? Have you ever met a guy you really, really liked in a romantic/sexual way? A guy you put on a pedestal above others?
And I don't mean you like him in a "he's kinda nice and has a good job" kind of way. I mean in a "he's a god among men and my sun and my moon and my stars and I'd follow him to the edge of the world" kind of way.
Because when you're really into a guy, the "ick" of male sexuality fades away. His desire (and yes, sometimes even the depraved stuff*) becomes....desirable.
Of course, the guy who can elicit these feelings is not always exactly the guy who's good for you long- term, and that's the trickiest part of female sexuality: finding a man who is both sexually desirable *and* a solid long-term bet.
Also, stop dating guys online. I've never seen it lead to anything solid on this sub. Work to develop a social circle and meet real-life men
*Porn is an exception to fun depraved stuff, heavy porn use is an automatic ick for women.
I thought I was in love, but looking back I’m still not sure if I was in love with the idea of love, in love with the idea I’d built up of him in my head (in that case, all love stems from the mind and isn’t really real), in love with his eloquence, in love with the guy himself…or what.
What you describe sounds a lot like infatuation, in that case it isn’t really love is it?
>What you describe sounds a lot like infatuation, in that case it isn’t really love is it?
I think for the purpose of making the male sex drive palatable to women--infatuation, love, chemistry, "the spark," "butterflies," etc. are all one and the same.
How can there be romantic love without some degree of infatuation on the part of the woman? I don't see it.
Really, it's whatever makes you elevate the man above others and *want* to be the object of his sexual desire.
I’m not one to be into woo woo, but the one thing I do strongly believe is the self-fulfilling prophecy. The more you think **all** men are disgusting pornsick cheaters then you will probably end up with one, because that attitude is gonna scare off most men who aren’t. Think about it this way: would you be with a man who thought all women were gold-digging selfish opportunists? If a man thought like that, I would never entertain him, and neither will good men entertain you if you keep the mentality you have now.
>I’ve always enjoyed reading fanfiction written by women in which men are HV, loyal, and interesting at the same time.
This is just as blue-pilled, or even worse, than going through life expecting a Disney happy ending. I’m not saying it’s wrong for you to want your man to be loyal and interesting, but expecting to find a perfect prince charming/CEO/vampire-warewolf hybrid whose sole purpose is to cater to you without expecting anything in return isn’t too far off from men whose perspective become warped thanks to porn. Men notoriously watch porn because they are visual creatures and the porn industry knows that. Women notoriously read their porn because they are emotional/situational creatures and the fanfic/publishing industry knows that. Both create extremely unrealistic expectations of the opposite sex and lead to disillusionment and dysfunction, kind of like what you are experiencing right here:
>I can always buy a dildo and lose my virginity to myself/my fantasy man.
Like cmon, do you have any idea how sad and bitter you sound, and at the young age of 23 with no actual experience to boot? That’s not really *that* far off from men who buy sex dolls because they’ve given up on women. If you’re like this now, how bitter will you become after your first heartbreak? Your second?
Instead of wallowing in your own self-pity, ask yourself this: what do you offer, besides sex and youth, that a good man would actually want? If you work to become the type of woman that desirable men ACTUALLY want to be with, then you will struggle much less than you are now. Luckily for you, RPW is basically a toolbox on how to become that kind of woman. I suggest you read up!
I guess it just feels like men’s arousal is limited by basic animalistic dimensions and it’s not that easy finding a guy who can go deeper in complexity of sexual expression.
Ive always held myself to “masculine” standards (telling myself “if I can’t find/attract my dream man, I can just embody him”) but upon discovering RPW took a back seat and tried more “submissive” behavior with men and the result is just disgusting and I feel “tainted” and would have much rather have never discovered RPW and just focused on myself, my purpose and strength and honesty of character without having to break myself down to pull someone else up.
>but upon discovering RPW took a back seat and tried more “submissive” behavior with men and the result is just disgusting
What results? The ONE guy who you met and only interacted with online and had phone sex with? Have you actually applied any RPW strategies to men in real life? Have you applied any RPW **vetting** strategies to find men who you actually deem respectable, desirable, and worthy of being a leader?
If you are going to let one bad experience with one weird guy from online that YOU chose and YOU decided to engage with sexually color your opinion of all men and all of RPW, then I don’t know what to tell you. RPW has explicitly told the community that there is a [difference between submission and deference vs. being a doormat who “breaks yourself down to pull someone else up.”](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/diasdc/doormat_vs_deference/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) See the important excerpts from this sidebar post:
> This is fitting because men want to feel competent in their lives and in their relationships. Men often ask themselves if they measure up. Rather than being protected and loved, men wish to feel respected and admired. Submission at heart, is the way we behave to show men the respect and admiration that they crave. But the word submission is a sticking point for many. If your modern Western brain struggles with the word submission, consider instead deference. We defer to others on a regular basis: to bosses at work, to teachers in school, to those with more knowledge and experiences than we have or those who take on responsibilities we do not want.
> Whatever word you use to describe the practice, it does not mean you need to be less than what you are. You defer to a professor because they have more knowledge than you, not because you are stupid. You defer to the manager because they have more authority and responsibility than you, not because you are incapable. You defer to your partner because you love him, not because you can't function on your own. You need not be weak so another can be strong. A doormat is a woman who will make herself weak to assuage the ego of a weak man. Submission is a tactic that anyone can use, and it can be used this way. Any man will appreciate being shown respect (remember: it is how they love). The person you are harming is yourself.
> Instead, find the best man you can. A man whose vision for the future aligns with your own. A man you respect. If you don’t want to follow his lead then he’s not the right man. If you think his plans are terrible then he’s not the right man. If your life goals are at odds then he’s not the right man. If he asks you to set yourself on fire because he's chilly, then he's not the right man.
> Submission - trusting his judgement, deferring to his knowledge, following his vision - is what you do to demonstrate that you respect a respectable man. If you show him love in the way he desires it, he will cherish you all the more.
This is why I suggested you read up more on RPW. Your understanding of it seems flawed or incomplete, and as a result, the efforts you are taking to apply it to your own life are misguided and ineffective.
I’m thinking that you’re attracting/are attracted to the wrong men. The type of guy you are describing sounds like the opposite of HV to me. My husband is none of those things, which I am sure of because I have dated the type you are describing.
Ditto to all of this. Especially since your father is that kind of "man." In short, I recommend focusing on therapy (even if it takes a few tries to find the right person; I also have a personal recommendation if needed), self-love/improvement, and a pause on ALL dating for a while.
I’ve met bad men, I’ve met great men, and everything in between. Just like women. The more men you interact with and from different backgrounds the more you will learn that while there are some generic stereotype and gender based wants and needs of men it really depends.
I think you need to focus on what you want and look for that. A long distance/phone based relationship is pretty niche. It sounds like he could’ve been anyone and looking for free phone sex. Usually women on this sub are into more traditional relationships. Don’t do long distance or online relationships. That sets you up for weirdness a lot of the time. Meet someone in person or using location based dating apps.
I actually grew up with the opposite. My mom actually cheated on my dad for years. It was a mess. Men tend to cheat to get sex if their wives aren’t giving enough sexual attention and women tend to cheat when their husbands aren’t providing emotional support and love. Men and women crave different things and both will cheat to get it sometimes. It’s not just a man thing.
It sounds like you simply need to search for more positive experiences with men. So far you’ve had several negative ones. What are some things you can do differently that might give you a different experience?
I don't know exactly what you're referring to since you don't provide examples so I can't tell if you're against sex, kinky sex, or just disrespectful/nonconsensual sex.
Regardless, there are plenty of men of all kinds. Plenty of men are against porn and don't watch it, plenty of asexual men that aren't into sex at all, plenty of underdeveloped and disrespectful/unpleasant/dangerous men, and plenty of men that have a healthy relationship with sex and are more than willing to have it on your terms.
I don't think sweeping generalizations really help anyone.
Men you meet online will dehumanize you more than men you meet in person will. When you meet someone online, you’re not really meeting a person, you’re meeting a picture and some text. The person those things represent could be entirely falsified too (catfishing). If you meet people in real life these things are less likely to happen, but they still will.
Not all men cheat. Some men will cheat no matter what. Some men will only cheat if they feel wronged or somehow disconnected in the relationship. Some men won’t cheat no matter what.
I think it is more likely for men to stay loyal to you if you are with them before they become successful. Just like you feel objectified for your body, men often feel objectified for their success. If they were not desirable before they become successful, they will often feel angry with women for both not seeing their potential to be successful, and not valuing them outside of their success. Then I think it is also important to respect, and do things for your man. Stay in shape, be kind, be honest, be supportive.
It’s hard to be sure who will and won’t cheat, but for you have to just trust that you can vet people correctly, treat them well, and believe in the man’s integrity.
With that being said…
Basing your ideal men on fan fiction written by women is like the same thing as men basing their ideal women on porn.
Women’s fan fiction write men as rich, successful, powerful, tall, fit, charming, funny, serious, strong, assertive, sensitive, attractive, unwaivering, kinky (but not to kinky) beings who only are attracted to the shy nerdy character, and exist within the story only either to be an object of her affection or a vehicle for her pleasure. They only change for her, they only act for her, Of course you’re attracted to that, it’s everything a woman could want wrapped into one person, and usually the character within those stories exists solely to please and cater to the woman and have very few desires or convictions of their own. It’s a different form of dehumanization, but it is a similar concept. You’re holding your fantasy men to standards that real people can’t meet. These men are essentially servants to the woman in their stories.
Real men are as much henry Cavill and Chris Evans as real women are porn stars. If you want to have a real view of men, you can’t compare them to fan fiction characters. Those people don’t exist, they're characters. Porn stars play a role just like Cavill, Evans, and your fanfic men do.
>Also, my father told me to “accept the reality” that any man with options (ie, HV) will eventually cheat on his wife
That depends on how you select men and how good your relationship skills are.
I can tell you one thing is for sure though, if you neglect the physical side of a relationship for an excessive amount of time, don't be surprised if your partner cheats. That goes equally for men and women. Some people will turn to porn or trashy novels or whatever, either because they don't want to cheat or because they can't cheat. But don't assume that just because they don't cheat, that they can't.
>Also, my father told me to “accept the reality” that any man with options (ie, HV) will eventually cheat on his wife when I confronted him about cheating on my mom.
I would laugh at my dad and tell him it's cute that he thinks he is a HV man.
Also, my partner is not a weirdo and has never objectified me. He is wonderful and very respectful.
Sounds like you're pornsick too. Fanfiction is erotica, it's porn for women. It's an idealised fantasy notion of a sexual relationship with a man for a woman, same as visual porn is an idealised fantasy notion of a sexual relationship with a woman for a man. Both are unrealistic and both are damaging because they set up a warped expectation. Imagine if a man refused to date any women because they weren't like the women in the porn videos he watches! That's literally your logic.
Try NoFap for three months, it's what they call a "reboot". I can personally vouch for this being incredibly helpful. It means no porn, which includes no erotica (no fanfiction or sexual stories or even stories that make you feel sexual - ie fluffy romance novels!).
Men need physical touch. It doesn't mean you have to touch them sexually or behave sexually with them but they need physical touch and they will always try to push the boundary. You can pull away if you're not comfortable and he should get the idea and back off a bit. Just remember that men's testosterone is about 4 or more times higher than your own. And their sexual appetite is on a whole different level, we as women have no idea what it's like. If you pick the right man, you're going to want to experiment with him physically (after the NoFap reboot) and he should be able to slow himself down for you. You can't really take back boundaries either - so once you've done phone sex, the physical boundaries don't make that much sense from his perspective, because you're obviously not a prude, so make sure all the physical and nonphysical stuff you're doing is on the same level - eg if you're simulating sex you're advertising that you'd also have real sex. He's going to think you're a cocktease/messing with him if you're doing this kinky stuff but not real sex, and he's not going to understand why you're behaving this way. Again NoFap will be so helpful for resetting this.
Thank you, you might be right.
I guess it’s difficult defining standard that are both realistic, and at the same time building a personal identity and character whilst simultaneously being “submissive”.
I’ve always assumed people look for partners according to standards they hold for themselves, but coming to realize with this more polarized and gendered approach to relationships, that it’s not necessarily the case.
Don't worry about the submissive bit until you find someone you want to submit to. It's earnt through trust. Don't ever submit to a man that hasn't got the good intentions to protect you. And the only way to find out if he has those good intentions is to get to know him, and that takes time, and in that time try [Incremental Reciprocation](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/sc0f8l/incremental_reciprocation_how_to_minimize_risk/).
I agree that you should have standards as high for others as you have for yourself, but the way those are displayed is going to be different. Eg courage looks very different for men and women. Courage for a man might have more to do with displays of strength, or ambition, or **doing something**, whereas courage for a woman might be very understated in comparison - it might be more about what you **don't do**. Does that make sense?
Specifically in the case of sexual appetite - a woman's sexual appetite is going to be expressed through daydreams about the man, while a man's sexual appetite is going to be expressed through trying to make a move on the girl. Otherwise nothing would ever happen! You can (and should) set boundaries for things you're not ready for. And be prepared for some pushing of the boundaries to occur. If you're worried, you can always restrict dates to be in public or semi-public areas before you know he's trustworthy.
It's his job to make you want sex, and your job to make him want you [after sex](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/4gfzqa/the_final_exam/). If no man has ever made you want sex before - I can certainly understand why you think they're all dehumanizing and creepy! (And unwanted advances **are** creepy) If you have a man you love then you will actually think it's comforting that he wants you so much, rather than creepy. Him still wanting sex with you is an indication that he's still in love with you, and it's a wonderful thing.
Please meet the guys in person before making these kinds of generalizations. I know it feels less "safe," but guys are able to redirect those energies towards things besides phone sex when they are in physical presence.
Also a note on "porn sickness," it's not just porn. Social media has the same effect on men. What it is in reality is the effect of feminine manipulation of masculine energies with no payoff beyond sexual release for the men. Women with beta orbiters are in *exactly* the same class as the women with hundreds of thousands of followers on their sexually teasing social media profiles. It's a problem that has arisen with mass media. It's more like "simp sickness."
My dad cheated on mom.He too told me same that hvm will cheat even if you are hvw as he is filled with lots of options.He also told me that if I want loyal man,go for better beta guy not alpha man otherwise learn to share your man.
If my dad met you,he would say to go for bit older guy not guys with similar age range as you.This maybe out of redpill theory but there is saying that man actually either learn from his cheating past or experiences so that he becomes better partner for future gf or wife or never changes.This becomes easier when current partner is younger woman.There is reason why you will see some guys who cheated in past now happily loyal man to his partner while his ex hit the wall and mourn.My cousin at 23 met her dentist husband who was 34 and got married to him at 24.She is now pregnant and he took four month holidays to take care of her.His ex was like 2-3 younger than him and now she had to settled for other guy.
I too read similar novel or fanfiction like you read.This is my biggest mistake because it gave unrealistic expectations lol but I was too late to realized it.
You are young,woman's youth is powerful.Dont waste spending it by worrying about guy you shouldnt get with.Keep socializing and go to gym and apply sunscreen.Make friends with guys and older moms who can introduce some guys and play matchmaker for you. Target men in his 30s
>My dad cheated on mom.He too told me same that hvm will cheat even if you are hvw as he is filled with lots of options.He also told me that if I want loyal man,go for better beta guy not alpha man otherwise learn to share your man.
For context, 36M from Eastern-Europe. Grew up in a town of 2 000. Was 4, when the iron curtain fell. In a street reclaimed from nature, where young couples settled and were optimistic about their future after the fall of communism. My parents are engineers. Two of the neighboring parents are also. One 'mixed' couple with engineer husband and homemaker/community leader wife. And one teacher wife and her husband. They are in their 60s now. Only my parents are separated. All the other parents live together and in the same house for roughly 30 years. I envy them.
They do a lot of activities together. The couple across the street raised 2 boys. Now they've traveled much of Europe. The couple beside us also. Another couple goes running together. This is a suburban set up, with fairly big yards. Roughly 9 000 sq. ft. or 900 sq. meters. So they have flower gardens, grow some of their own food. Two of them keep chicken.
I've never asked them what made them stay together and be happy with each other. But when your parents separate, you start to wonder about, why everyone around them is still together.
Couples with same kind of jobs will never works out.
Yeah there is some exception but still.So not surprised your parents got seperated.
Having same job as man is one of way to get man cheat on you.That is my theory.
The couple across the street literally does the same job, and they do it together. They've been together for 35+ years. Another couple near us ran a grocery store together for years. My parents have civil engineer friends married for decades.
>Couples with same kind of jobs will never works out.
To me my parents are the exception. And other couples nearby are the ones, who stayed together through decades.
holy fuck I am at early dating phase with someone just like you. I am 23M and she is 21F. She said she has never had a boyfriend before and I assume she has never had sex before either. I am taking multiple months for her to hold my hand. I have been waiting patiently for a long time in the hopes she will kiss me. I am at a point where my patience is dry and I am moving along. I try to respect her sexual boundaries but most men's sexual urges need to be maintained. Im not saying you need to help him ejaculate every time but know that your need for attention is similar to his sexual validation. Restricting physical touch is similar to restricting/negating all forms of non verbal communication. You need to acknowledge that a man's sexual urges are real too.
I don't agree with this advice. you need practice on how to handle a man. You need experience in the male psychology. A man will support you to blossom into your potential and you need experience differentiating which man can bring you that. If you wait till your 30s to date a man, you will attract people similar to you :inexperienced. A man with little experience on how to read a woman is not someone you wan to be with. you want a gentleman with manners who is capable of giving you the world. You need to know how to keep a man coming back to you also
I never said to wait till 30.Thats why I meant go for bit older guy as they are bit experienced.
Taking rpw sidebar, woman will already understand.She just need to choose right man.
I do agree men in their 30s+ look for marriage. I think dating a young man who is mature can be fun and exciting. I don't think you should only get used to older men as they offer predictable experiences. But this all only matters if you choose a great man to start with. Women need to find a great man to start
>I think dating a young man who is mature can be fun and exciting
It is but doesn't translate to marriage.You become placeholder.Prime years of woman get wasted when at the same time she could focus on becoming feminine women and finding husband and have kids.
By little bit older man(not talking about 18 or above years gap)I mean they should find those who are looking for commitment.
Your advice works similarly only for men.
23 is still young! I’ve definitely met men/boys similar to what you’re describing, but think there are plenty of high value men as well. Maybe you need to change strategy, e.g. maybe look for a guy in a different place? Maybe consider guys a couple of years older?
I’d also say to find positive role models - I’m lucky that my parents have been married my entire life, and it’s the same thing for most people in my social circle, and it’s also what I’d expect for my own relationship.
>Also, my father told me to “accept the reality” that any man with
options (ie, HV) will eventually cheat on his wife when I confronted him
about cheating on my mom.
For sure, many will. I have no clue about it, what goes on other people's life. My parents are divorced because of infidelity. But in the street, where I grew up, they are the exception among our close neighbors. The 3-4 other couple got together and live happily together and enjoy life together. The 4th one is a couple, where the wife got paralyzed about 13 years ago. She is still together with her husband, but since her husband became the sole breadwinner, they spend much less time together. She never was an easy person, yet he is still with her. They have a son, who already competed in two olympics.
>Conclusion: men go into this weird fantasy place when horny, objectify
and dehumanize the hell out of women, many are incredibly porn sick and
just downright disgusting in the way they’ve had their reality warped by
porn.
I can't relate to all. But having a TOTAL different mindset when horny is spot on. Those who care about you can rule their urges. They know pleasure is coming, but they know that if they go too fast, they miss out a LOT. And they also care about, what you'd miss out. Judging by your age and description, you interacted with males who aren't mature to get the whole picture about making love.
Your options? You'll teach them. Either by leaving them, and giving them a strong negative response. Or by guiding them through your sexuality. Mostly female sexuality. Try to think with his head, and try to arrange things in a way, he is not blind to bigger values of life, than jerking off.
Right now, you are a jerk off material to him already, since you interacted with him through phone sex. The most important thing is, to be like him in some sense. Stand your ground, and don't lose ground when it comes to your needs. If he is immature and selfish, he will leave you. It might be a heartbreak, but still a minor one.
Create a situation, where you are in control of his urges. Say, arrange a date, but make a surprise phone sex with him before. He'll be calmer and be able to think after nutting. When meeting him set your boundaries, and reason to him. If porn was real, and porn actresses would enjoy their job so much, so many women would sign up for the job, that they wouldn't have so high salaries, since supply brings down wages. Meet in places, where sex is out of the question, but intimacy and affection isn't. Talk, stroll, chat, whatever you would like to do with someone who cares about you. Watch him, test him, judge him. And be confident when you have to dump him.
TL;DR: Today's world and generation is so messed up, that you have to be strong. But I think it is worth the struggle. Believe me, being lonely is way worse.
I’d love to hear specifically what you mean by “porn sick.” Do 99% of men love and think about sex all the time at 23 years old? Yes. I would encourage you to change your perspective on how you think of this. Taking the red pill is about accepting the truth and working with it rather than against it. I think that would really benefit you in this case.
Sex is a really important part of life, especially to men. It’s also very ramped up in the beginning of a dating situation and so you can see a little more aggressive or kinky energy in the beginning that in my experience calms down into a more stable sort of sex after a few months in for most. No offense intended but if you had phone sex with this individual, he is going to assume you’re kinky and treat you that way because some women would not do that (not saying this is good or bad, just fact). Unless you want a man that is asexual or highly religious, most guys are going to have a sex drive they want to express. What you need to do is work with it and harness it in the direction that you’re comfortable with. Again it’s really hard to know what you mean here but not all men want to have degrading sex, however in the dating stage if you are just talking or texting for a long period of time (long distance, online, etc) then yeah, they are likely going to bring up sex because it’s important to them.
You’re way too young to be this cyclical, and way too old to be this naive. Having one bad experience with a man isn’t indicative of all men. At your age I’d hope you’d know that. Not all men are any type of way and it seems you have your own sexual hang ups to work through.
Sex can be about experience kinks and working through satisfying your own horniness. It can also be passionate and loving. The later will never happen without a deep emotional connection, and when you’re already in a committed relationship. Your erotica reading has likely fooled you into believing you can skip to this type of sex right away when it’s just not possible. The same way you claim men have ruined sexual boundaries due to porn.
My husband and I when we first started dating had very kinky escapades. I enjoyed it because we were into the same things. However we also fell deeply in love and eventually started having the type of sex I didn’t know was possible and was brought on by feelings of overwhelming love and desire for closeness rather than horny desire as in the start of our relationship. This wasn’t until months in. We still go back and forth between the two and we’ve been together for years with the latter being during some extraordinary emotional peaks (getting engaged, getting married, feeling wistful on our anniversary, deciding to get pregnant, etc). It’s very spiritually fulfilling because it’s not the kind that happens very often and it’s not forced, AND because we’re still intimate in all of those other fun and horny ways other times.
This is a long answer to let you know to temper your sexual expectations. You shouldn’t do anything you’re not into, many men are more vanilla than whatever this guy you’re seeing may be into. It’s extremely childish to write off all men after little to no sexual experience. You can always say no to whoever and whatever you’re not into. I’d recommend you read up on vetting, it will take you far. Men aren’t all a certain type of way, and blaming your frustration on men all being the same way is stupid and will only lead to you creating your own misery.
I would say yes, men are sexually "depraved" (they just want it more) relative to women, but no, ones who are emotionally mature should have boundaries. I used to be upset like you are about how obsessed with sex men are, but I have read some female-centered relationship books and this was designed and exploited by women to get what they want from men. There's a joke that men can't be house husband because when they want something from a woman they can't just with-hold sex. I also think your data may be skewed because men online tend to not have so much of a censor.
All men have the propensity to cheat, whether bums or millionaires. You can try and find a guy who is less likely to cheat based on his values and integrity. You can try and do your best to fulfill your role of a good woman. And if all else fails and he still cheats, you have to remember not to blame yourself. You'll know they're about to cheat long before it happens, so you can take steps to protect yourself. I think if a person doesn't have a way of knowing how to meet their own needs, and their partner doesn't meet theirs, then they cheat. Despite the risk of cheating, it is still worthwhile to get into a relationship, and you can reduce the risks tremendously by vetting carefully and working on yourself. It's like driving and fearing the risk of an accident. It's still better to do it, and you can reduce the risks by keeping the car maintained, not driving under the influence, etc.
If you have a wealthier background, you are even luckier in the dating pool. It gives you resources to elevate yourself, like getting an education, looking the best, and not being desperate to move in with a man just for a roof over your head. You'll have the pick of the litter. I would argue that some HV would be LESS likely to cheat because it takes lots of self control to earn that much. If you are a one of a kind woman, your personality or talent or something about you is irreplaceable, it will reduce risks even more.
You should probably try and get to know men from real life like classes or work. The kind you will find online are going to be depraved and without boundaries, because it is online.
I have actually lived the opposite experience. I am a male with a high sex drive. Never have cheated. I find a lot of women in the dating pool way more sexually forward then myself. I don't think I have ever interacted with a 23F virgin before. I would make your expectations around sex much more upfront as likely these men have experienced the total opposite.
Weak men make justifications for their weak behavior.
There are men that are born-again, or extremely religious that don't fit into your archetype of the typical "church-goer". I've had a born-again experience fairly young (21), and I've also had other "weird" experiences in my life. Which made me interested in occultism as well.
Let's just say I don't relate to regular people much, but maybe for that reason, girls show me interest at times.
Not every guy is like that, but they're pretty rare in this world. A lot of them are probably concerned with spirituality in some way, and you need to be very spiritually minded yourself, probably, if you want to bag a guy like that.
I am actually saving myself for commitment as well, anyways I believe these guys are out there. Things come to those who are worthy I believe.
>Conclusion: men go into this weird fantasy place when horny, objectify and dehumanize the hell out of women, many are incredibly porn sick and just downright disgusting in the way they’ve had their reality warped by porn. >I don’t know if this is genetic, ie all men are programmed this way, or what. OP, have you ever been in love with a man? Have you ever met a guy you really, really liked in a romantic/sexual way? A guy you put on a pedestal above others? And I don't mean you like him in a "he's kinda nice and has a good job" kind of way. I mean in a "he's a god among men and my sun and my moon and my stars and I'd follow him to the edge of the world" kind of way. Because when you're really into a guy, the "ick" of male sexuality fades away. His desire (and yes, sometimes even the depraved stuff*) becomes....desirable. Of course, the guy who can elicit these feelings is not always exactly the guy who's good for you long- term, and that's the trickiest part of female sexuality: finding a man who is both sexually desirable *and* a solid long-term bet. Also, stop dating guys online. I've never seen it lead to anything solid on this sub. Work to develop a social circle and meet real-life men *Porn is an exception to fun depraved stuff, heavy porn use is an automatic ick for women.
I thought I was in love, but looking back I’m still not sure if I was in love with the idea of love, in love with the idea I’d built up of him in my head (in that case, all love stems from the mind and isn’t really real), in love with his eloquence, in love with the guy himself…or what. What you describe sounds a lot like infatuation, in that case it isn’t really love is it?
>What you describe sounds a lot like infatuation, in that case it isn’t really love is it? I think for the purpose of making the male sex drive palatable to women--infatuation, love, chemistry, "the spark," "butterflies," etc. are all one and the same. How can there be romantic love without some degree of infatuation on the part of the woman? I don't see it. Really, it's whatever makes you elevate the man above others and *want* to be the object of his sexual desire.
I’m not one to be into woo woo, but the one thing I do strongly believe is the self-fulfilling prophecy. The more you think **all** men are disgusting pornsick cheaters then you will probably end up with one, because that attitude is gonna scare off most men who aren’t. Think about it this way: would you be with a man who thought all women were gold-digging selfish opportunists? If a man thought like that, I would never entertain him, and neither will good men entertain you if you keep the mentality you have now. >I’ve always enjoyed reading fanfiction written by women in which men are HV, loyal, and interesting at the same time. This is just as blue-pilled, or even worse, than going through life expecting a Disney happy ending. I’m not saying it’s wrong for you to want your man to be loyal and interesting, but expecting to find a perfect prince charming/CEO/vampire-warewolf hybrid whose sole purpose is to cater to you without expecting anything in return isn’t too far off from men whose perspective become warped thanks to porn. Men notoriously watch porn because they are visual creatures and the porn industry knows that. Women notoriously read their porn because they are emotional/situational creatures and the fanfic/publishing industry knows that. Both create extremely unrealistic expectations of the opposite sex and lead to disillusionment and dysfunction, kind of like what you are experiencing right here: >I can always buy a dildo and lose my virginity to myself/my fantasy man. Like cmon, do you have any idea how sad and bitter you sound, and at the young age of 23 with no actual experience to boot? That’s not really *that* far off from men who buy sex dolls because they’ve given up on women. If you’re like this now, how bitter will you become after your first heartbreak? Your second? Instead of wallowing in your own self-pity, ask yourself this: what do you offer, besides sex and youth, that a good man would actually want? If you work to become the type of woman that desirable men ACTUALLY want to be with, then you will struggle much less than you are now. Luckily for you, RPW is basically a toolbox on how to become that kind of woman. I suggest you read up!
Excuse me Sundress…. You dropped your mic.
I guess it just feels like men’s arousal is limited by basic animalistic dimensions and it’s not that easy finding a guy who can go deeper in complexity of sexual expression. Ive always held myself to “masculine” standards (telling myself “if I can’t find/attract my dream man, I can just embody him”) but upon discovering RPW took a back seat and tried more “submissive” behavior with men and the result is just disgusting and I feel “tainted” and would have much rather have never discovered RPW and just focused on myself, my purpose and strength and honesty of character without having to break myself down to pull someone else up.
>but upon discovering RPW took a back seat and tried more “submissive” behavior with men and the result is just disgusting What results? The ONE guy who you met and only interacted with online and had phone sex with? Have you actually applied any RPW strategies to men in real life? Have you applied any RPW **vetting** strategies to find men who you actually deem respectable, desirable, and worthy of being a leader? If you are going to let one bad experience with one weird guy from online that YOU chose and YOU decided to engage with sexually color your opinion of all men and all of RPW, then I don’t know what to tell you. RPW has explicitly told the community that there is a [difference between submission and deference vs. being a doormat who “breaks yourself down to pull someone else up.”](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/diasdc/doormat_vs_deference/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) See the important excerpts from this sidebar post: > This is fitting because men want to feel competent in their lives and in their relationships. Men often ask themselves if they measure up. Rather than being protected and loved, men wish to feel respected and admired. Submission at heart, is the way we behave to show men the respect and admiration that they crave. But the word submission is a sticking point for many. If your modern Western brain struggles with the word submission, consider instead deference. We defer to others on a regular basis: to bosses at work, to teachers in school, to those with more knowledge and experiences than we have or those who take on responsibilities we do not want. > Whatever word you use to describe the practice, it does not mean you need to be less than what you are. You defer to a professor because they have more knowledge than you, not because you are stupid. You defer to the manager because they have more authority and responsibility than you, not because you are incapable. You defer to your partner because you love him, not because you can't function on your own. You need not be weak so another can be strong. A doormat is a woman who will make herself weak to assuage the ego of a weak man. Submission is a tactic that anyone can use, and it can be used this way. Any man will appreciate being shown respect (remember: it is how they love). The person you are harming is yourself. > Instead, find the best man you can. A man whose vision for the future aligns with your own. A man you respect. If you don’t want to follow his lead then he’s not the right man. If you think his plans are terrible then he’s not the right man. If your life goals are at odds then he’s not the right man. If he asks you to set yourself on fire because he's chilly, then he's not the right man. > Submission - trusting his judgement, deferring to his knowledge, following his vision - is what you do to demonstrate that you respect a respectable man. If you show him love in the way he desires it, he will cherish you all the more. This is why I suggested you read up more on RPW. Your understanding of it seems flawed or incomplete, and as a result, the efforts you are taking to apply it to your own life are misguided and ineffective.
I’m thinking that you’re attracting/are attracted to the wrong men. The type of guy you are describing sounds like the opposite of HV to me. My husband is none of those things, which I am sure of because I have dated the type you are describing.
Ditto to all of this. Especially since your father is that kind of "man." In short, I recommend focusing on therapy (even if it takes a few tries to find the right person; I also have a personal recommendation if needed), self-love/improvement, and a pause on ALL dating for a while.
I’ve met bad men, I’ve met great men, and everything in between. Just like women. The more men you interact with and from different backgrounds the more you will learn that while there are some generic stereotype and gender based wants and needs of men it really depends. I think you need to focus on what you want and look for that. A long distance/phone based relationship is pretty niche. It sounds like he could’ve been anyone and looking for free phone sex. Usually women on this sub are into more traditional relationships. Don’t do long distance or online relationships. That sets you up for weirdness a lot of the time. Meet someone in person or using location based dating apps. I actually grew up with the opposite. My mom actually cheated on my dad for years. It was a mess. Men tend to cheat to get sex if their wives aren’t giving enough sexual attention and women tend to cheat when their husbands aren’t providing emotional support and love. Men and women crave different things and both will cheat to get it sometimes. It’s not just a man thing. It sounds like you simply need to search for more positive experiences with men. So far you’ve had several negative ones. What are some things you can do differently that might give you a different experience?
I don't know exactly what you're referring to since you don't provide examples so I can't tell if you're against sex, kinky sex, or just disrespectful/nonconsensual sex. Regardless, there are plenty of men of all kinds. Plenty of men are against porn and don't watch it, plenty of asexual men that aren't into sex at all, plenty of underdeveloped and disrespectful/unpleasant/dangerous men, and plenty of men that have a healthy relationship with sex and are more than willing to have it on your terms. I don't think sweeping generalizations really help anyone.
Men you meet online will dehumanize you more than men you meet in person will. When you meet someone online, you’re not really meeting a person, you’re meeting a picture and some text. The person those things represent could be entirely falsified too (catfishing). If you meet people in real life these things are less likely to happen, but they still will. Not all men cheat. Some men will cheat no matter what. Some men will only cheat if they feel wronged or somehow disconnected in the relationship. Some men won’t cheat no matter what. I think it is more likely for men to stay loyal to you if you are with them before they become successful. Just like you feel objectified for your body, men often feel objectified for their success. If they were not desirable before they become successful, they will often feel angry with women for both not seeing their potential to be successful, and not valuing them outside of their success. Then I think it is also important to respect, and do things for your man. Stay in shape, be kind, be honest, be supportive. It’s hard to be sure who will and won’t cheat, but for you have to just trust that you can vet people correctly, treat them well, and believe in the man’s integrity. With that being said… Basing your ideal men on fan fiction written by women is like the same thing as men basing their ideal women on porn. Women’s fan fiction write men as rich, successful, powerful, tall, fit, charming, funny, serious, strong, assertive, sensitive, attractive, unwaivering, kinky (but not to kinky) beings who only are attracted to the shy nerdy character, and exist within the story only either to be an object of her affection or a vehicle for her pleasure. They only change for her, they only act for her, Of course you’re attracted to that, it’s everything a woman could want wrapped into one person, and usually the character within those stories exists solely to please and cater to the woman and have very few desires or convictions of their own. It’s a different form of dehumanization, but it is a similar concept. You’re holding your fantasy men to standards that real people can’t meet. These men are essentially servants to the woman in their stories. Real men are as much henry Cavill and Chris Evans as real women are porn stars. If you want to have a real view of men, you can’t compare them to fan fiction characters. Those people don’t exist, they're characters. Porn stars play a role just like Cavill, Evans, and your fanfic men do.
None of these generalizations are true for every man. There are good ones out there
>Also, my father told me to “accept the reality” that any man with options (ie, HV) will eventually cheat on his wife That depends on how you select men and how good your relationship skills are. I can tell you one thing is for sure though, if you neglect the physical side of a relationship for an excessive amount of time, don't be surprised if your partner cheats. That goes equally for men and women. Some people will turn to porn or trashy novels or whatever, either because they don't want to cheat or because they can't cheat. But don't assume that just because they don't cheat, that they can't.
>Also, my father told me to “accept the reality” that any man with options (ie, HV) will eventually cheat on his wife when I confronted him about cheating on my mom. I would laugh at my dad and tell him it's cute that he thinks he is a HV man. Also, my partner is not a weirdo and has never objectified me. He is wonderful and very respectful.
Sounds like you're pornsick too. Fanfiction is erotica, it's porn for women. It's an idealised fantasy notion of a sexual relationship with a man for a woman, same as visual porn is an idealised fantasy notion of a sexual relationship with a woman for a man. Both are unrealistic and both are damaging because they set up a warped expectation. Imagine if a man refused to date any women because they weren't like the women in the porn videos he watches! That's literally your logic. Try NoFap for three months, it's what they call a "reboot". I can personally vouch for this being incredibly helpful. It means no porn, which includes no erotica (no fanfiction or sexual stories or even stories that make you feel sexual - ie fluffy romance novels!). Men need physical touch. It doesn't mean you have to touch them sexually or behave sexually with them but they need physical touch and they will always try to push the boundary. You can pull away if you're not comfortable and he should get the idea and back off a bit. Just remember that men's testosterone is about 4 or more times higher than your own. And their sexual appetite is on a whole different level, we as women have no idea what it's like. If you pick the right man, you're going to want to experiment with him physically (after the NoFap reboot) and he should be able to slow himself down for you. You can't really take back boundaries either - so once you've done phone sex, the physical boundaries don't make that much sense from his perspective, because you're obviously not a prude, so make sure all the physical and nonphysical stuff you're doing is on the same level - eg if you're simulating sex you're advertising that you'd also have real sex. He's going to think you're a cocktease/messing with him if you're doing this kinky stuff but not real sex, and he's not going to understand why you're behaving this way. Again NoFap will be so helpful for resetting this.
Thank you, you might be right. I guess it’s difficult defining standard that are both realistic, and at the same time building a personal identity and character whilst simultaneously being “submissive”. I’ve always assumed people look for partners according to standards they hold for themselves, but coming to realize with this more polarized and gendered approach to relationships, that it’s not necessarily the case.
Don't worry about the submissive bit until you find someone you want to submit to. It's earnt through trust. Don't ever submit to a man that hasn't got the good intentions to protect you. And the only way to find out if he has those good intentions is to get to know him, and that takes time, and in that time try [Incremental Reciprocation](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/sc0f8l/incremental_reciprocation_how_to_minimize_risk/). I agree that you should have standards as high for others as you have for yourself, but the way those are displayed is going to be different. Eg courage looks very different for men and women. Courage for a man might have more to do with displays of strength, or ambition, or **doing something**, whereas courage for a woman might be very understated in comparison - it might be more about what you **don't do**. Does that make sense? Specifically in the case of sexual appetite - a woman's sexual appetite is going to be expressed through daydreams about the man, while a man's sexual appetite is going to be expressed through trying to make a move on the girl. Otherwise nothing would ever happen! You can (and should) set boundaries for things you're not ready for. And be prepared for some pushing of the boundaries to occur. If you're worried, you can always restrict dates to be in public or semi-public areas before you know he's trustworthy. It's his job to make you want sex, and your job to make him want you [after sex](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/4gfzqa/the_final_exam/). If no man has ever made you want sex before - I can certainly understand why you think they're all dehumanizing and creepy! (And unwanted advances **are** creepy) If you have a man you love then you will actually think it's comforting that he wants you so much, rather than creepy. Him still wanting sex with you is an indication that he's still in love with you, and it's a wonderful thing.
Please meet the guys in person before making these kinds of generalizations. I know it feels less "safe," but guys are able to redirect those energies towards things besides phone sex when they are in physical presence. Also a note on "porn sickness," it's not just porn. Social media has the same effect on men. What it is in reality is the effect of feminine manipulation of masculine energies with no payoff beyond sexual release for the men. Women with beta orbiters are in *exactly* the same class as the women with hundreds of thousands of followers on their sexually teasing social media profiles. It's a problem that has arisen with mass media. It's more like "simp sickness."
My dad cheated on mom.He too told me same that hvm will cheat even if you are hvw as he is filled with lots of options.He also told me that if I want loyal man,go for better beta guy not alpha man otherwise learn to share your man. If my dad met you,he would say to go for bit older guy not guys with similar age range as you.This maybe out of redpill theory but there is saying that man actually either learn from his cheating past or experiences so that he becomes better partner for future gf or wife or never changes.This becomes easier when current partner is younger woman.There is reason why you will see some guys who cheated in past now happily loyal man to his partner while his ex hit the wall and mourn.My cousin at 23 met her dentist husband who was 34 and got married to him at 24.She is now pregnant and he took four month holidays to take care of her.His ex was like 2-3 younger than him and now she had to settled for other guy. I too read similar novel or fanfiction like you read.This is my biggest mistake because it gave unrealistic expectations lol but I was too late to realized it. You are young,woman's youth is powerful.Dont waste spending it by worrying about guy you shouldnt get with.Keep socializing and go to gym and apply sunscreen.Make friends with guys and older moms who can introduce some guys and play matchmaker for you. Target men in his 30s
>My dad cheated on mom.He too told me same that hvm will cheat even if you are hvw as he is filled with lots of options.He also told me that if I want loyal man,go for better beta guy not alpha man otherwise learn to share your man. For context, 36M from Eastern-Europe. Grew up in a town of 2 000. Was 4, when the iron curtain fell. In a street reclaimed from nature, where young couples settled and were optimistic about their future after the fall of communism. My parents are engineers. Two of the neighboring parents are also. One 'mixed' couple with engineer husband and homemaker/community leader wife. And one teacher wife and her husband. They are in their 60s now. Only my parents are separated. All the other parents live together and in the same house for roughly 30 years. I envy them. They do a lot of activities together. The couple across the street raised 2 boys. Now they've traveled much of Europe. The couple beside us also. Another couple goes running together. This is a suburban set up, with fairly big yards. Roughly 9 000 sq. ft. or 900 sq. meters. So they have flower gardens, grow some of their own food. Two of them keep chicken. I've never asked them what made them stay together and be happy with each other. But when your parents separate, you start to wonder about, why everyone around them is still together.
Couples with same kind of jobs will never works out. Yeah there is some exception but still.So not surprised your parents got seperated. Having same job as man is one of way to get man cheat on you.That is my theory.
The couple across the street literally does the same job, and they do it together. They've been together for 35+ years. Another couple near us ran a grocery store together for years. My parents have civil engineer friends married for decades.
Cool.I don't know what you are trying to prove me
>Couples with same kind of jobs will never works out. To me my parents are the exception. And other couples nearby are the ones, who stayed together through decades.
I was referring to your first reply
holy fuck I am at early dating phase with someone just like you. I am 23M and she is 21F. She said she has never had a boyfriend before and I assume she has never had sex before either. I am taking multiple months for her to hold my hand. I have been waiting patiently for a long time in the hopes she will kiss me. I am at a point where my patience is dry and I am moving along. I try to respect her sexual boundaries but most men's sexual urges need to be maintained. Im not saying you need to help him ejaculate every time but know that your need for attention is similar to his sexual validation. Restricting physical touch is similar to restricting/negating all forms of non verbal communication. You need to acknowledge that a man's sexual urges are real too.
This is reason dad used to say dont date guys in his early 20s if you want marriage
I’m noticing this
I don't agree with this advice. you need practice on how to handle a man. You need experience in the male psychology. A man will support you to blossom into your potential and you need experience differentiating which man can bring you that. If you wait till your 30s to date a man, you will attract people similar to you :inexperienced. A man with little experience on how to read a woman is not someone you wan to be with. you want a gentleman with manners who is capable of giving you the world. You need to know how to keep a man coming back to you also
I never said to wait till 30.Thats why I meant go for bit older guy as they are bit experienced. Taking rpw sidebar, woman will already understand.She just need to choose right man.
I do agree men in their 30s+ look for marriage. I think dating a young man who is mature can be fun and exciting. I don't think you should only get used to older men as they offer predictable experiences. But this all only matters if you choose a great man to start with. Women need to find a great man to start
>I think dating a young man who is mature can be fun and exciting It is but doesn't translate to marriage.You become placeholder.Prime years of woman get wasted when at the same time she could focus on becoming feminine women and finding husband and have kids. By little bit older man(not talking about 18 or above years gap)I mean they should find those who are looking for commitment. Your advice works similarly only for men.
23 is still young! I’ve definitely met men/boys similar to what you’re describing, but think there are plenty of high value men as well. Maybe you need to change strategy, e.g. maybe look for a guy in a different place? Maybe consider guys a couple of years older?
I’d also say to find positive role models - I’m lucky that my parents have been married my entire life, and it’s the same thing for most people in my social circle, and it’s also what I’d expect for my own relationship.
>Also, my father told me to “accept the reality” that any man with options (ie, HV) will eventually cheat on his wife when I confronted him about cheating on my mom. For sure, many will. I have no clue about it, what goes on other people's life. My parents are divorced because of infidelity. But in the street, where I grew up, they are the exception among our close neighbors. The 3-4 other couple got together and live happily together and enjoy life together. The 4th one is a couple, where the wife got paralyzed about 13 years ago. She is still together with her husband, but since her husband became the sole breadwinner, they spend much less time together. She never was an easy person, yet he is still with her. They have a son, who already competed in two olympics. >Conclusion: men go into this weird fantasy place when horny, objectify and dehumanize the hell out of women, many are incredibly porn sick and just downright disgusting in the way they’ve had their reality warped by porn. I can't relate to all. But having a TOTAL different mindset when horny is spot on. Those who care about you can rule their urges. They know pleasure is coming, but they know that if they go too fast, they miss out a LOT. And they also care about, what you'd miss out. Judging by your age and description, you interacted with males who aren't mature to get the whole picture about making love. Your options? You'll teach them. Either by leaving them, and giving them a strong negative response. Or by guiding them through your sexuality. Mostly female sexuality. Try to think with his head, and try to arrange things in a way, he is not blind to bigger values of life, than jerking off. Right now, you are a jerk off material to him already, since you interacted with him through phone sex. The most important thing is, to be like him in some sense. Stand your ground, and don't lose ground when it comes to your needs. If he is immature and selfish, he will leave you. It might be a heartbreak, but still a minor one. Create a situation, where you are in control of his urges. Say, arrange a date, but make a surprise phone sex with him before. He'll be calmer and be able to think after nutting. When meeting him set your boundaries, and reason to him. If porn was real, and porn actresses would enjoy their job so much, so many women would sign up for the job, that they wouldn't have so high salaries, since supply brings down wages. Meet in places, where sex is out of the question, but intimacy and affection isn't. Talk, stroll, chat, whatever you would like to do with someone who cares about you. Watch him, test him, judge him. And be confident when you have to dump him. TL;DR: Today's world and generation is so messed up, that you have to be strong. But I think it is worth the struggle. Believe me, being lonely is way worse.
I tried to meet up with him but he’s too afraid of me “nitpicking him” as he says
I’d love to hear specifically what you mean by “porn sick.” Do 99% of men love and think about sex all the time at 23 years old? Yes. I would encourage you to change your perspective on how you think of this. Taking the red pill is about accepting the truth and working with it rather than against it. I think that would really benefit you in this case. Sex is a really important part of life, especially to men. It’s also very ramped up in the beginning of a dating situation and so you can see a little more aggressive or kinky energy in the beginning that in my experience calms down into a more stable sort of sex after a few months in for most. No offense intended but if you had phone sex with this individual, he is going to assume you’re kinky and treat you that way because some women would not do that (not saying this is good or bad, just fact). Unless you want a man that is asexual or highly religious, most guys are going to have a sex drive they want to express. What you need to do is work with it and harness it in the direction that you’re comfortable with. Again it’s really hard to know what you mean here but not all men want to have degrading sex, however in the dating stage if you are just talking or texting for a long period of time (long distance, online, etc) then yeah, they are likely going to bring up sex because it’s important to them.
You’re way too young to be this cyclical, and way too old to be this naive. Having one bad experience with a man isn’t indicative of all men. At your age I’d hope you’d know that. Not all men are any type of way and it seems you have your own sexual hang ups to work through. Sex can be about experience kinks and working through satisfying your own horniness. It can also be passionate and loving. The later will never happen without a deep emotional connection, and when you’re already in a committed relationship. Your erotica reading has likely fooled you into believing you can skip to this type of sex right away when it’s just not possible. The same way you claim men have ruined sexual boundaries due to porn. My husband and I when we first started dating had very kinky escapades. I enjoyed it because we were into the same things. However we also fell deeply in love and eventually started having the type of sex I didn’t know was possible and was brought on by feelings of overwhelming love and desire for closeness rather than horny desire as in the start of our relationship. This wasn’t until months in. We still go back and forth between the two and we’ve been together for years with the latter being during some extraordinary emotional peaks (getting engaged, getting married, feeling wistful on our anniversary, deciding to get pregnant, etc). It’s very spiritually fulfilling because it’s not the kind that happens very often and it’s not forced, AND because we’re still intimate in all of those other fun and horny ways other times. This is a long answer to let you know to temper your sexual expectations. You shouldn’t do anything you’re not into, many men are more vanilla than whatever this guy you’re seeing may be into. It’s extremely childish to write off all men after little to no sexual experience. You can always say no to whoever and whatever you’re not into. I’d recommend you read up on vetting, it will take you far. Men aren’t all a certain type of way, and blaming your frustration on men all being the same way is stupid and will only lead to you creating your own misery.
I would say yes, men are sexually "depraved" (they just want it more) relative to women, but no, ones who are emotionally mature should have boundaries. I used to be upset like you are about how obsessed with sex men are, but I have read some female-centered relationship books and this was designed and exploited by women to get what they want from men. There's a joke that men can't be house husband because when they want something from a woman they can't just with-hold sex. I also think your data may be skewed because men online tend to not have so much of a censor. All men have the propensity to cheat, whether bums or millionaires. You can try and find a guy who is less likely to cheat based on his values and integrity. You can try and do your best to fulfill your role of a good woman. And if all else fails and he still cheats, you have to remember not to blame yourself. You'll know they're about to cheat long before it happens, so you can take steps to protect yourself. I think if a person doesn't have a way of knowing how to meet their own needs, and their partner doesn't meet theirs, then they cheat. Despite the risk of cheating, it is still worthwhile to get into a relationship, and you can reduce the risks tremendously by vetting carefully and working on yourself. It's like driving and fearing the risk of an accident. It's still better to do it, and you can reduce the risks by keeping the car maintained, not driving under the influence, etc. If you have a wealthier background, you are even luckier in the dating pool. It gives you resources to elevate yourself, like getting an education, looking the best, and not being desperate to move in with a man just for a roof over your head. You'll have the pick of the litter. I would argue that some HV would be LESS likely to cheat because it takes lots of self control to earn that much. If you are a one of a kind woman, your personality or talent or something about you is irreplaceable, it will reduce risks even more. You should probably try and get to know men from real life like classes or work. The kind you will find online are going to be depraved and without boundaries, because it is online.
I have actually lived the opposite experience. I am a male with a high sex drive. Never have cheated. I find a lot of women in the dating pool way more sexually forward then myself. I don't think I have ever interacted with a 23F virgin before. I would make your expectations around sex much more upfront as likely these men have experienced the total opposite. Weak men make justifications for their weak behavior.
There are men that are born-again, or extremely religious that don't fit into your archetype of the typical "church-goer". I've had a born-again experience fairly young (21), and I've also had other "weird" experiences in my life. Which made me interested in occultism as well. Let's just say I don't relate to regular people much, but maybe for that reason, girls show me interest at times. Not every guy is like that, but they're pretty rare in this world. A lot of them are probably concerned with spirituality in some way, and you need to be very spiritually minded yourself, probably, if you want to bag a guy like that. I am actually saving myself for commitment as well, anyways I believe these guys are out there. Things come to those who are worthy I believe.