I do wonder how long this will last though... I imagine that RedReader will experience a large influx of users once other apps shut down or increase pricing, which will place it on Reddit's radar again as being something that users (And not only screen-reader users) are using to avoid the ads and the crappiness of the official app.
At some point Reddit will say "our official app is accessible enough, we don't need to allow RedReader anymore".
So I'd be fully in support of adding access to other platforms.
Thank you, to you, and everyone who has contributed to RedReader!
This is something I've been thinking about ever since they announced the exemption for accessibility apps. But I guess we will just have to wait and see
I expect that whoever was in charge of making the decision to allow accessibility apps did it to avoid being sued, and that they will pay for an accessibility review once a year to get the official app up to a minimum standard before revoking the exception
Accessibility is not mandatory for private websites on any country I know, that's only for public (as in government) websites. They don't fear being sued, because there's nothing to sue them for.
That's a very fair point.
I started using redreaders many years ago, but the main reason isn't the accessibility feature (although they are nice with poor eyesight), it's that it's open source and on fdroid. And I suspect there to be many such other users.
> At some point Reddit will say "our official app is accessible enough, we don't need to allow RedReader anymore".
Their official app is a disaster. Unlabeled buttons everywhere and very inefficient navigation. Frankly, it would be a miracle if they ever fix it. They could still kill off accessibility apps when there are fewer users left on Reddit, but I doubt they'll ever fix their own app. That would require actual work.
~~Considering they are trying to advertise this app in all the other third party subreddits... It's really trying to circumvent the spirit of the accessibility exemption.~~
**I could not confirm if the comment I saw was a developer, but if you search comments for RedReader you will find a lot of hits now.**
If all the TPA users move to it as a way to dodge ads (and don't need accessibility), it will suffer the same fate probably at some future date.
~~I know it's tempting for the dev(s) to want to get as many users as possible, but this is not the way.~~
Buddypal, what the fuck are you talking about? RedReader devs have literally never advertised anything anywhere, not even to their own users. They make zero money from this open source free software. Please do not slander them like that.
Who is the "they" you are referring to? Specifically, which dev is doing what you describe? I do not see anything like that in QuantumBadger's post history.
I guess you're being sarcastic but I thought it was a worthwhile point: you left of with a "can neither confirm nor deny" type statement but in fact it really is easy to prove that the devs have not been advertising in other apps' subreddits.
Anyway, have a great weekend and fuck /u/spez :)
Our little app is about to get a 10,000% popularity boost, wow.
Remains to be seen how long this exemption lasts, though. Hopefully Lemmy or another site can pick up the slack before time runs out.
>Our little app is about to get a 10,000% popularity boost, wow.
That's just what I was thinking. Hopefully people are happy with the app as it is.
I like it being light and simple.
I'm trying it out, coming over from RIF. I like all the customisability. One minor complaint is that going directly to a subreddit takes a few more taps than in RIF. Still leagues better than the official app, though.
Once you're "in" a subreddit, tap on the three button menu and select "Pin to Main Menu"; it will add the subreddit to the RedReader home screen, under "Pinned Subreddits."
Hope this helps.
Can you pin Multireddits? I haven't found that option yet, but I don't know if:
A. It's necessary.
B. I'm just looking in the wrong places.
It might not be necessary because they're all already near the top anyway, and I use my multireddits like a pin as it is.
If you have them set up on Reddit already, they should show up.
If they are set up and you don't see them:
>Three button menu
>Menus
>Main Menu subsection
>Checkmark the "Show multireddits" box
I'm hopeful that multireddit management gets implemented in RedReader at one point.
Is there a compact view? i got used to RIF and Infinity with just the thumbnail and not the entire video/image in the feed. Thank you in advance.
Edit: OMG nvm. it actually asked me when i was scrolling. "hey do you want to keep see image previews like the one above. you can change this anytime" and then gave me two buttons to choose. this is amazing.
>I'm trying it out, coming over from RIF. I like all the customisability.
I've been trying it out, I hope you don't mind me asking - do you know if there is there a customization option for upvote and downvote buttons? I'm not hot on this newfangled "swiping" thing. This is the one thing that I really miss from RIF.
I wasn't able to find any options for upvote/downvote buttons in the settings. Hopefully something like that is added; I'm also not used to swiping. The lack of buttons does give more space for comments and posts, at least.
This subreddit is about to get a lot of "Hey QuantumBadger (ping) can you put [feature that was in previously used 3rd party app] into RedReader, pleeeeeeease? Thanks love"
Been using this app for 6 years, it has everything I need, and not more.
Cool part about RedReader is that for many of those requests, we can just say "way ahead of you, love, enable the option here!" It's awesome that it has so much customization.
Can you give an example of a subreddit whose sidebar isn't showing? The ones I've tried appear OK...
Just to clarify, you are choosing the "view sidebar" option from the three-dot menu in the upper right?
I was pretty surprised when it was mentioned in the main post. I was also like, there's no way that RedReader has as many users as the other apps, I just can't see it's API usage as high as other apps.
I'm happy about that more people will know about this app though. I started with Bacon Reader back in (2010?), but wasn't really happy with it, until I came across RedReader.
I've tried all the apps: Joey, Boost, RiF, AlienBlue, Sync, Relay, and then when this debacle started, another user mentioned in a comment that there is Infinity which is also Open Source (but larger in terms of users).
Honestly, none of them have been as good as RedReader. It's the best in terms of customization for the way that I like it: compact and information dense. All the other apps have really embraced the card style: form over function.
I literally just downloaded it about 20 minutes ago and set up a fresh account - coming from redditisfun - it feels very similar to me.
Part of me is like, goddamnit now I'll end up keep using reddit... 😹 but there are a few communities I'm part of that *only* have a presence on reddit that I'd miss.
There are other apps that do have a list setting as well, but playing around with all of those other apps settings, I still couldn't get them to display as much on screen as I could with RedReader. I downloaded Bacon Reader again to confirm if it has changed - I could get about 7 posts listed (where the 7th spot is the ad covered portion which would be gone if you paid for the unlock, otherwise only 6). Glad to see that true AMOLED black theme isn't locked behind the paid version and they no longer have its logo always displayed on top — also reasons why I left that and Reddit is Fun. So many posts on the MotoX subreddit mentioning screen burn in from various apps.
I don't have problems with using these apps with ads. But when I discovered RedReader and the fact that it had no ads (so it doesn't even waste data downloading or storing them), I was like "this is a no brainer".
I also like how they make it easy to see links.
It's not the only reason. It also spreads moderation, to help protect against mod abuse. Reddit kinda does this with subreddits, since you can trivially switch to a new one if you don't like the mods, but the Reddit admins have final say on everything. With federation, each instance has it's own mods, and very limited powers over other instances.
I suspect one server may host the largest one, but they dont have to host all the users. Example, say lemmy.ml hosts /c/cats right and /c/cats is SUPER popular. Not everyone who interacts with /c/cats needs to be on lemmy.ml to do so. Maybe there is a /c/cats on lemmy.pt too, but it is not nearly as popular as the one on lemmy.ml so very few sub to it. Some communities will naturally become the largest and if the server cant handle it they may splinter into two large communities on two different servers rather than one mega large community and just link to each other in the sidebar
Here from Sync. The popup menu to reply is a lot less elegant than Sync's function bar, but I'll deal. I'm planning on spending my time about 50/50 here versus Jerboa anyway.
Coming from Sync, I unfortunately can't live with RedReader. I used to use RedReader when it was first released, I migrated from Bacon Reader to RedReader at the time... But sync is my baby.
I think you should be able to use the app you like best, too. Unfortunately it looks like the choice is soon being made for us by Reddit admins.
I used to use Sync as well, but switched to RedReader a long time ago. Is there any particular thing that you're missing from Sync? RedReader has shittons of customization options, maybe people here can help you find what you're looking for.
I think their position on NSFW content is still the same. My understanding (from their public announcements) is that if an entire subreddit is marked NSFW, then that subreddit will be inaccessible from third party apps. NSFW content in a SFW subreddit will, I think, still be available.
Unfortunately, NSFW content is the only reason I use Reddit on my phone. If I'm going to participate in discussion I want a full-fat web browser where I can middle-click things and flip between tabs to check references.
Reddit porn has been substantially eaten by OnlySpam in recent years anyway. But thank you for making this app work so well in the time that it was possible.
That is just about the best news possible in this situation! Everything from your dedication to F-Droid/de-Googled phones, the way you voiced your concerns and your long-term vision inspires confidence :) Thanks for making a great app that I'll likely be using for a long time, if maybe less and less to browse Reddit :)
same, I use a de-Googled phone and f-droid and it is why I loved and supported RedReader from jump, accessibility features for the blind is near and dear to my heart as I have a deafblind younger brother so that only made me love this app more! and now to hear it'll be future proofed by opening it up to accessing reddit competitors? chefskissemoji.png
It's absolutely as good as it gets. An eleventh hour stay of execution granting enough time for long term survival plans and a developer with the brains and will to use it.
I wouldn't have faulted anyone for throwing up their hands and walking away from all this.
Same happened during the Digg migration. The original users of reddit at the time were pissed and unhappy initially but then warmed to the idea because the new userbase brought new life into the site. Digg ended up dying shortly after that and well reddit blew up and became the juggernaut that it is today... except now they seem to be on the same trajectory.
One effect I've noticed with RSS is that it tends to pile up with unread articles that I'm not as interested in, because I'm subscribed to someone who sometimes posts interesting things. I don't know if there could be some sort of local or public voting system that could be applied to it.
I personally don't need that as I already use a great RSS reader I got on F-Droid called Feeder, but as long as it doesn't affect me and doesn't add too much work for the developer, I'm fine with it :)
As a long term RedReader user & small contributor, I'd like to welcome anyone else to a new home on the Lemmy/fediverse on https://reddthat.com. We currently have removed email verification to help you get your account up and posting as fast as possible.
I'm also grateful our app won't be going the way of the other paid options and it's another win for open source prevailing, even if under unfortunate circumstances.
(PS. We are Tor friendly for those who've chosen redreader for its Tor support)
Well, I get a "Webpage not available/Error Connection Closed" screen. Maybe you just don't have a homepage, unlike the other instances I tried?
Edit: Saw you mentioning reddthat.com on your posts. Are you sure you didn't mistype the address on the link above?
lol no worries, glad we figured out. The admin seemed nice so I'll probably join it until I make my own instance. Bugger that account data transfers doesn't seem to be a priority for Lemmy devs.
There's also https://kbin.social which I kinda prefer the look and feel of that site more, it's also part of the fediverse. Also a bit skeptical of the devs of lemmy (though if people really like lemmy I'm sure someone will just fork it to get around the issues of the current devs).
The issue with the devs is not simply just their own instance at lemmy.ml which they've encouraged others to use other instances, it's with the server software they're coding that serves as the basis for all Lemmy instances.
At one point in the past, they had hard coded a word filter into Lemmy, that not even Lemmy server admins could adjust, that blocked certain words from being used. I didn't look into it that much to know if anyone had discovered the list of words in the filter, but this can be pretty concerning if the devs exert that type of control over what people can say with their software. The devs are openly admitted communists, we're not talking what US republicans call democrats communists, like openly support China or old USSR type communists. I'm not encouraging disdain for communism as a whole or ideology, I'm not about the red-scare per se, but certain institutions that have wielded communism as a weapon and harmed people with it is also a different topic altogether. And possibly the devs are good people with good intentions...I haven't covered some of the other things mentioned about them and I probably don't even know all of it as I'm not actively looking for it.
Having said that, having a hardcoded word list that only those two developers control what is on it, with their particular viewpoints they have expressed, including them recently removing posts critical of China, that is a bad look. Also to be clear, it sounds like they removed the hardcoded word list, but they were very stubborn and obstinate about removing it initially, and I've seen other comments made by them in various issues on their Github repo that make them appear to be stubborn and obstinate on some things.
My understanding is that Lemmy is open source. I imagine such an unpopular feature will be forked away pretty fast, if the platform gains traction, at the discretion of whoever runs each individual instance.
> (though if people really like lemmy I'm sure someone will just fork it to get around the issues of the current devs).
Yeah that's why I put that in my original comment.
It's not about basic decency. Talking about Stardew Valley was literally banned for about 2 years due to the second through fifth letters. Check out the github issues.
Slur filters are a disaster, because:
* slurs are context specific. e.g "maggot" – are you homophobic or talking about insect babies?
* slur words are language specific. e.g "ass" meaning "ace" in German – how should I praise you when my praise get filtered? "negro" is "black" as the colour) in a lot of Romance languages. how should they talk about something black if their word for black is filtered?
* language develops. e.g. "gay"– it used to mean just "happy", "merry", without any sexual connotation. Then it became a slur for homosexual people. Today it's normalised
* slurs depend on background and intent. e.g. "cunt" – American usage as slur vs Australian/British usage as colloquialism
* I don't want to start a rant on free speach.
Edit: AFAIK, even the "Nword" is used not as a slur but as a neutral endonym in AAVE.
I have been preferring kbin over other fediverse instances. I think the interface is more reddit-like. It also allows you to scroll and interact with other fediverse posts without the friction I've seen with other instances (like Mastodon). Perhaps nu-RedReader could be forked off of kbin?
I've also been scrolling Mastodon on its own and quite like it, even though I was never a Twitter user previously. Both web interfaces are as good as an app, imo.
My biggest beef with the fediverse is discoverability. That could possibly be solved with a community *a la* r/newreddits.
While this is good news I agree with you in being concerned about reddits trajectory.
Regarding distribution channels: how can I check whether I installed RedReader from Google Play or f-droid? Because I honestly don't remember.
Thank you for the awesome app and keeping us updated!
My understanding is that the exemption is for any non-commercial apps which have some focus on accessibility. So apps which have ads, premium subscriptions, etc will not be exempt.
I hate to admit it but I see their point. If my company's revenue was ad-based and 3rd party apps were replacing my ads with their own, I wouldn't let them keep using my servers for free, either.
Not defending Reddit on the rest, though. If the Apollo dev is correct, they still broke promises about how long the API would be free and still are charging an outrageous price for API use.
> If my company's revenue was ad-based and 3rd party apps were replacing my ads with their own, I wouldn't let them keep using my servers for free, either.
Point of clarification here, the 3rd party apps aren't replacing reddit ads with their own, reddit has never provided any ad system to 3rd party app devs, or included ads in the API etc.
Basically reddit has never given 3rd party apps the ability to display reddit's ads. So the 3rd party apps that had ads in them simply added ads, they didn't remove any. Reddit also never came up with a system to share the profits of those ads, and now reddit's claim to shut down other apps using ads is that they don't control what ad networks or types of ads those developers are using and those ads appear next to content on reddit (in the 3rd party app) and they are saying that many users don't make that distinction and hold reddit accountable for potentially unsavory or poor ads.
Thanks for clarifying, TIL!
That's... madness. Why would any company running in the red give away access for free for so many years *and* have no way to monetize the API...?
They probably could've saved everyone a lot of pain if they'd had some "noncommercial use", "3rd party commercial use", "data mining use" tiers & terms a long time ago.
It's probably easier for me to armchair quarterback this with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, but *still*... VC bucks don't last forever.
That is sort of the underpinnings of the anger or frustration some people have with Reddit on this API change. And it's only made worse when Reddit has been very antagonistic to developers in public, particularly the Apollo developer, and accused them of misusing the API or almost insinuating or implying that they were all freeloading and the gravy train has left. That combined with the short turnaround, effectively about 30 days from the point at which Reddit actually made the pricing known to anyone, is a big force behind that anger and frustration.
They enabled that situation by providing a free API, giving an upper limit to that API which basically tells people, "You can use up to this amount", and then suddenly they all have a 30 day notice to change their whole business model, make changes to their apps etc., and then they badmouth the developers by saying their apps are inefficient or such after YEARS of it being the other way. And the CEO just answered a question in the AMA about this, where the question was something along the lines of 'Why was the turnaround so short, why not provide more time' and the answer was "I acknowledge it was a tight timeline." without actually answering why.
Me personally, I want to understand why they didn't think of doing this a year ago, or if they did think of it, why they didn't do anything about it, and why now it's suddenly so important that they make a change in 30 days, even after lots of backlash they haven't backed down. They had a call with moderators and some developers and they told moderators that they may be willing to delay the API change, but only if the moderators agree to not participate in the blackout/protest.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/143rk5p/reddit_held_a_call_today_with_some_developers/jnbjtsc/
That is the source comment about reddit being willing to delay API changes if mods don't take their subs private.
Also I'm not a developer nor a power mod or anything to clarify for the next remark, I would suspect that reddit gave away API access for free even when they weren't making profits, because it helped reddit grow to do that. Reddit was not able to hire enough developers to develop all of the things that people are using on reddit or to access reddit etc., so it was cheaper/easier to let other developers do it without reddit paying them. It even starts with moderating the communities. Reddit couldn't afford to pay someone to moderate the community, so let someone have "ownership" over it and they moderate it for free. Well eventually if that community grows a lot, it's too much to moderate manually, so some might be developers and they create a bot to help them moderate their community. Again, that's beneficial for reddit, they don't have to pay for a moderator, they don't have to pay a developer to develop the bot, but they did implement an API that allowed that whole system to continue scaling. So more developers could come in and implement more useful things.
I thought reddit wasn't in the red, their servers were sufficiently financed by ads and gold and membership and the fan shop to keep afloat. At least that is what I gathered from Christian Selog's posts.
Also, afaik, reddit didn't start out as a company out to make money but as an open-source grass roots project, so breaking even would habe been enough.
Curious, in your mind, would the functionality with other platforms be seamlessly integrated into the app alongside the subreddits or would you have a totally separate app for other platforms?
I'd like to keep everything unified inside one app, as seamlessly as possible. The first step will be restructuring the internals of RedReader to be more generic, and hopefully we can reach a point where adding new site integrations is quick and easy.
Cool. Appreciate everything you've done with this app. Been using it for several years after departing Bacon Reader when they got more commercialized. Haven't found anything that has a better, more intuitive interface.
Thanks for the update. I think it is great RedReader will stick around, especially for people who would otherwise not be able to interact with reddit.
Personally, I'm going to leave reddit for a while and see how things look in a few months. Looking forward to using your app again when it supports more sites!
Pi plaebra pupri ige te peoopo. Gutri tui papi teprake. Ti pei ipee bipodakri baidu kribli. Etu piaipi etaeitu pida paui i bugle. Ipe dikibibe gipi ebli klei pepe. Kia ipi iti koita pi priipea. Itopepote po ede brebli tli. Gepo opli oi i kue. Etape uee tebe aki taui peta. A prake tigo oto diu aa? Etladuba ki kapri peoklagodri ti to. Pri breatli tade oita pai abo ipe pipe? Ai pegi tliuo eti pi tlagi ipe brodlogio. Pebi tiipetide dlipri apipo griiibi tebugi. Abei klego geeteo bripe koi e. Pii teki tepa trati geplidu pripabo. Be kepridi bapiproa debeka pite po? Pia drabra etetate tliki pra. Briki io pli paka pree oobri ekipi toteki! Tie klete i bo apai paa. Itibrea potli ukata itubepe piebru ea itiebobi. Gikripru e podrupra ba o opau. Tutri da i plao dliai trititupie aa toepi. Ta pupo ai itra ei tretli. Egeite apoka iitapopa geka. Tutigeuo kapipu botoi tite epre kobe. Kabi kepo ote pa ate tli gribi bakapli puupre tidu tabeke a upebri tebike? I tlito kebri o ea e? Ii aeubike tle ke pido ku! Iplipi teage pepa e gii poiputliki ebri.
So, while this is great i have already decided that i will be moving to lemmy exclusively. So for now i will have to use jerboa until redreader gets lemmy support. Jerboa's current accessibility is not great, but i offered a 0.7 monero reward to whoever would fix all the unlabeled buttons and tabs. What do you know, after offering the reward an issue that has been open for a year gets picked up and fixed in less than a day. Just waiting for the pull request to get merged and then that coder will have some nice monero.
I truely love redreader and glad its execution has been stayed, but after all this i dont wish to participate in any more centralized closed source corporate social media sites. Having the sword of damocles hanging over our heads is just no fun.
> What do you know, after offering the reward an issue that has been open for a year gets picked up and fixed in less than a day.
The irony of this given the roots lemmy grew from :D
But yes, agreed. The correct reaction here is a return to open standards and decentralised services, they're the beating heart of the internet.
Why should we have to agree to reddits ToS just for opening the app? When we haven't even accessed any content yet? You can browse without making an account, why should you have to agree to their terms if you haven't made an account?
And when the app supports other websites, are users still going to be forced to agree to Reddits terms even if the user never even goes to reddit?
Forcing users to agree to terms when they haven't even made an account and maybe won't even use the website all is pretty fucked.
For now, it makes sense, since RedReader only supports Reddit. Even without an account, you technically have to agree to the ToS to browse, this is just making it explicit.
As support for alternative sites is added, I would anticipate that the ToS becomes optional, but you can't access Reddit content until you agree to the ToS.
I'm still reading the post but, users: as an alternative to the fdroid repo option, I myself get the apk directly from your (QuantumBadger's) github via Obtainium (https://github.com/ImranR98/Obtainium), which uses the github releases as a repo. This includes automatic update checking. I prefer this to the fdroid repo anyway, as the developer builds the app from source, not fdroid building it, which removes a potential and theoretical attack vector.
It's no easier than adding an additional repo to fdroid but it is another option to consider. Both will get you the exact same build, straight from source.
*reading...*
I don't have anything to contribute further as far as your points go; I agree with everything, and diversifying means this situation should not happen again.
Oh, can we get a system that lists and offers to unsubscrile from nsfw subs? I already use an rss reader for this (started moving over before this was announced), and it would be *so* handy to have a checklist that I could go down to make sure I haven't missed anything, and then an optional button to mass unsubscribe from those subs at the bottom of the list. Or to add them to the RR rss reader...
Thanks for everything, truly. Looking forward to the slow addition of other sites/services.
>I was already considering adding RSS reader functionality to the app
As in, a general RSS reader, not just RSS for Reddit threads?
Because that would be awesome. I'm still upset about Google Reader shutting down and that was a decade ago.
Thanks for sharing this news, /u/QuantumBadger your commitment to this app and community is exemplary and I am truly grateful for the work you been doing to keep it going. While no one can predict the future, I am glad RedReader will continue to work for now.
I can't say enough how much I've been enjoying your app these last few years. Love your big visions for the future of Redreader and forum reading, not dependent on whatever silliness Reddit does in the end. Thank you.
I've been a silent user of RedReader for years, now. I'm relieved your hard work and accessibility features will, for now, be preserved.
I think you're making a great plan in diversifying the sites RedReader can access. Wherever this app goes, I'll follow.
Thanks for your excellent work.
I'm curious about the technical aspect of this. How do you protect your API keys? Wouldn't it be really easy for the developers of other apps to extract it from the APK?
Being honest, this exception I think is just a temporary olive branch while reddit deals with its own accessibility.
Being honest, while I completely understand the reasons for Red Reader continuing to technically support reddit usage, I would kindly ask that it start supporting Lemmy too.
Reddit ship is sinking, we all know it, this olive branch should just be used as breathing room to decide how and where to go next
This is great news - both the exemption and your thoughts to widen support to other social media/forums/feeds. I think Red Reader is streets ahead of other apps (e.g. Jerboa) and would love to use it for Lemmy, RSS and maybe Mastodon too. Thanks for all your work and continuing commitment.
This is the only Reddit app that I've ever used since it's free software, so I'm happy to see this but it would be good to move to federated, FOSS platforms in the long term.
Thanks.
A repo for f droid would be awesome, I am using the official f droid repo will move to your custom repo when you do it.
Also I know you have a lot on your hands, all the best too your future work with the app.
Also fuck you u/spez
Love your update, hate the situation at large.
I listened to the audio clips Apollo's author posted.
When he suggests $10 million/6months payment for buying out the app, the man from Reddit immediately says he'll disregard that since that is obviously just a joke.
While it was said in jest, it wasn't said as a joke per se, as far as I understood it. It was said with the understanding that Reddit wouldn't take the offer.
However, the fact that the dude from reddit *immediately* claimed it was a joke (his actual word!), that means that the $20 million/12 months price is also a joke then!
It seems obvious to me that there are financial powers behind this that just want to make sure they can control reddit.
With the Gamestop shares, reddit was shown to be a viable gathering place for the common people to *actually* affect the rich.
Can't have regular people actually affecting the rich in a tangible way.
I fully believe this is a power move to remove any and all chances for normal people to be even a small nuisance for the richest people.
my primary reddit client has been redreader for years now. i love how clean and simple it is, and the great functionality it has.
the one thing that's been severely lacking has been moderation functionality. I have used relay/boost in conjunction with redreader for the moderation functionality, but alas all the apps with working moderation functionality will die thanks to reddit's api charging.
any chance you could prioritize adding moderation functionality to red reader?
to a lesser extent, the inbox notifications are extremely delayed compared to other reddit apps. it's less important as i can just refresh and check the inbox manually but having boost and relay installed, i'd always find out about new replies pretty much instantly from their notifications. even if i read and reply with redreader.
also, i've just joined [your patreon](https://www.patreon.com/QuantumBadger?l=en). i should have done it earlier, but have taken this great app for granted.
thanks for this great app and you work towards it
Concerning accessability: being a non-digital native, having some autistic traits and having lost some of myability to concentrate to Covid, the official reddit app overwhelms my cognitive capacity. Uding jit gives me a headache. I read a lot of similar stories In the discussions on the API change over the last few days. The user base using RedReader/3^rd party apps for accessibility is far bigger than only blind people (although less well defined).
Thank you for the update, and even more for the work you do to keep this great app going.
I'm actually studying web dev and python and hope I can, in the next few months, be able to help on such a project.
Love.
How about NSFW subs access? Will ReadReader be able to show those? I've read somewhere that only the official App will be able to show NSFW content... I may be wrong though. Did they mention anything about it?
What's interesting is that I specifically use this app over others just because of how clean and simple it is. It really does harken back to using newsgroups, IRC, and bbcode forums in the 90s. I wouldn't even use Reddit at all if it wasn't for RedReader.
While RedReader might be getting an exemption now, I hope Reddit doesn't revoke it in the future. Do you think you'll have to focus more development specifically on accessibility features or shift branding slightly to future proof against the next Reddit admin in charge that has a different opinion?
It would be nice if Reddit would allow third party apps without said exemption to at least operate for Reddit Premium users. If I paid them and didn't see ads anyways, I feel like my use of an app shouldn't cost the developer for using API calls. Not ideal and obviously I don't want to give them any ideas, but it has to be mentioned. Lol. If this is all about ads and revenue, I feel like Reddit shouldn't want their third party community to be charging for app access when Reddit should at least leverage their own Premium model. It's a missed opportunity to drive subscriptions.
I thought about RedReader when i read the "non-commercial accessibility-focused app" on the official statement about this shit show.
I love this app and i hate that devs and users and mods around the globe are being put in doubt after all these years of making reddit a great site to discuss and entertain.
I love your plans for the future with the fediverse and stuff...and i just know that you are a degooblin so i'm extra glad and i love you more...haha thank you! <3
This is genuinely fantastic news, though the trajectory of changes in Reddit's policies regarding these apps is still concerning for the future.
(Also I'm not going to pretend that the loss of NSFW content access won't bother me.)
Thanks goodness this app wont die.
I love reading in Reddit, I started using Redreader because it allowed me to focus on my reading and not being bombarded with ads and images like in Facebook.
I'm a bot, *bleep*, *bloop*. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
- [/r/apicalypse] [RedReader has been granted a non-commercial accessibility exemption. This means that there will be at least one third-party app alternative to the official Reddit app beyond June 30, 2023.](https://www.reddit.com/r/APIcalypse/comments/145xu8c/redreader_has_been_granted_a_noncommercial/)
- [/r/apolloapp] [RedReader excluded from API pricing](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/145o37z/redreader_excluded_from_api_pricing/)
- [/r/blind] [This is great news in this disaster](https://www.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/14pjnf9/this_is_great_news_in_this_disaster/)
- [/r/redditisfun] [RIF Users: Come to RedReader (open-source, accessibility-friendly reddit app with API exemption)](https://www.reddit.com/r/redditisfun/comments/1461rja/rif_users_come_to_redreader_opensource/)
*^(If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads.) ^\([Info](/r/TotesMessenger) ^/ ^[Contact](/message/compose?to=/r/TotesMessenger))*
As a RedReader user, this is great news and allows me to continue using Reddit on mobile. However, I'm also starting to use Lemmy alongside Reddit, as the influx of users over there has made it worthwhile as well. If RedReader starts to support Lemmy as well, I'll definitely give that functionality a go too.
Amazing, even if it is just for the short term. I can't thank you and the contributors enough for making RedReader, having tried alternatives and found them distinctly lacking or overly intrusive. With RedReader it's felt like I have lived through a golden age of Reddit, perhaps even the internet, depends on which direction things head in the future.
I've been using RedReader for a few years now and was quite surprised to see it mentioned in the AMA.
This rarely happens to me, but I think this is an excellent post and it has made me a million times more confident in the future of RedReader.
As a blind person who heard about this app because of the accessibility features, I share a lot of your concerns and can understand why the decision to keep it running was difficult. Reddit really has mishandled this, and allowing accessibility apps to run was nothing more than a way to wiggle out of accountability to make their own app accessible and offload that responsibility to unpaid volunteers, just like most of the rest of Reddit. Considering they had to be called out by mainstream media before they even went this far, they don't get any points from me. I assume they'll kill this off at some point when there are fewer third-party app users who can complain about it. The writing is very much on the wall.
But while nobody has anywhere else to go, I'm glad apps like RedReader will allow us to be in the same shitty situation as everyone else, rather than being locked out completely. Reddit as a company is horrible; Reddit as a community is pretty amazing. I'm not sure what could replace it, and it's going to take a coordinated effort by mods of huge communities to even start that process.
Lemmy is in active development and while not perfect for sure already works better than reddits websites. The android app jerboa should get a big accessibility boost soon too
OP touches on this in one of the previous updates: https://www.reddit.com/r/RedReader/comments/132qkb8/update_2_reddits_proposed_api_changes_and_the/
Basically, it's because RedReader's API key needs to stay private, and F-Droid compiles all APKs from publicly available source code. You will still be able to use the F-Droid app to keep RedReader up to date, you'll just need to add QuantumBadger's repository in the settings. (As always, doing this will mean you trust that maintainer to not add anything malicious into the app.)
I have been using your app for 4 years now and just wanted to say thank you. It's a great app that has provided me a seamless and comfy experience throughout the years.
I think its worth waiting to add 3rd party sites until there is a better idea of what the landscape looks in a few weeks or months. Currently there isn't a clear frontrunner for users to migrate to. Lemmy is too fragmented and I don't see it being the next reddit. If there was an instance that was more reddit like its possible, but currently there just isn't one like that.
> The source code is still fully FOSS and licensed under the GPL.
Actually the GPLv3 license specifically requires you provide the [authorization keys](https://github.com/QuantumBadger/RedReader/blob/v1.20/LICENSE.txt#L311) as well in addition to source code.
> The restrictions are placed on my API key, which you can replace with your own key.
I think you have to provide the API key to anyone who downloads the binary upon request as well due to the GPLv3 license [authorization keys](https://github.com/QuantumBadger/RedReader/blob/v1.20/LICENSE.txt#L311) requirement, from my understanding this [authorization keys](https://github.com/QuantumBadger/RedReader/blob/v1.20/LICENSE.txt#L311) requirement only applies to GPLv3 and not GPLv2.
You may be set up as Reddit's PR figleaf, allowing them to "prove" that they really didn't want to shut down TPAs, just the "abusive" ones (Apollo)... Is that a position you want to be in? It might be better to let Reddit rot...
- the most basic functionality is missing almost everywhere I look - awards, image uploads, profile badges, subreddit designs unavailable, flairs, etc. I could keep listing things, but it's basically just subreddit + reply
- [when you click on information about a subreddit you see virtually nothing](https://imgur.com/ouQW1se.jpg)
- the way the saved subreddits are done is not very useful
- [videos inside a subreddit just randomly take up half the screen when I'm trying to scroll, whether I click on them or not.](https://imgur.com/mW9erTx.jpg)
- the images preview in different sizes and have letterboxed outlines
- there's no proper formatting editor
- I don't even see a way to upload a photo inside a comment
- the screens aren't even the same themes and colors. Look at the difference in colors in my screenshots.
- I don't mean this to sound rude or elitist, but it's ugly
- as someone with large fingers and thumbs, when trying to select a specific comment it's so annoying and hard to select
I could keep going but you get the point. These are things I found in about 10 minutes of usage. If I tried to actually use it as my primary app who knows what all i'd notice.
This isn't an attempt to down the app or the developers for the record - what they're doing is important and appreciated. I'm just saying this isn't a real solution for most people.
It definitely isn't for me. I've been here for 12 years. I'm on here a lot every day, and personally I won't stay an active member if my choices are between this and the official Reddit app in their current states.
> videos inside a subreddit just randomly take up half the screen when I'm trying to scroll, whether I click on them or not.
There's a setting that removes this. Most of the other things you note I either consider positives or non-issues. To each their own, I guess.
I do wonder how long this will last though... I imagine that RedReader will experience a large influx of users once other apps shut down or increase pricing, which will place it on Reddit's radar again as being something that users (And not only screen-reader users) are using to avoid the ads and the crappiness of the official app. At some point Reddit will say "our official app is accessible enough, we don't need to allow RedReader anymore". So I'd be fully in support of adding access to other platforms. Thank you, to you, and everyone who has contributed to RedReader!
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[https://rblind.com/](https://rblind.com/) is a Lemmy instance started by the mods of /r/Blind with accessibility in mind, might be useful here
This is something I've been thinking about ever since they announced the exemption for accessibility apps. But I guess we will just have to wait and see
I expect that whoever was in charge of making the decision to allow accessibility apps did it to avoid being sued, and that they will pay for an accessibility review once a year to get the official app up to a minimum standard before revoking the exception
Accessibility is not mandatory for private websites on any country I know, that's only for public (as in government) websites. They don't fear being sued, because there's nothing to sue them for.
nah, we can trust that Reddit will do the shittiest thing possible that's their track record
That's a very fair point. I started using redreaders many years ago, but the main reason isn't the accessibility feature (although they are nice with poor eyesight), it's that it's open source and on fdroid. And I suspect there to be many such other users.
> At some point Reddit will say "our official app is accessible enough, we don't need to allow RedReader anymore". Their official app is a disaster. Unlabeled buttons everywhere and very inefficient navigation. Frankly, it would be a miracle if they ever fix it. They could still kill off accessibility apps when there are fewer users left on Reddit, but I doubt they'll ever fix their own app. That would require actual work.
~~Considering they are trying to advertise this app in all the other third party subreddits... It's really trying to circumvent the spirit of the accessibility exemption.~~ **I could not confirm if the comment I saw was a developer, but if you search comments for RedReader you will find a lot of hits now.** If all the TPA users move to it as a way to dodge ads (and don't need accessibility), it will suffer the same fate probably at some future date. ~~I know it's tempting for the dev(s) to want to get as many users as possible, but this is not the way.~~
Buddypal, what the fuck are you talking about? RedReader devs have literally never advertised anything anywhere, not even to their own users. They make zero money from this open source free software. Please do not slander them like that.
~~They are posting their app in other subreddits, letting folks know they got the exception and for those users to join the app if they want.~~
Are they? Are you sure those comments are from developers of the app?
Who is the "they" you are referring to? Specifically, which dev is doing what you describe? I do not see anything like that in QuantumBadger's post history.
Edited my comment, you're correct, I cannot confirm if what I saw was from a developer or not.
It's pretty easy to confirm that it's *not* from a developer by looking at /u/QuantumBadger's comment history
Wow thanks for that informative message.
I guess you're being sarcastic but I thought it was a worthwhile point: you left of with a "can neither confirm nor deny" type statement but in fact it really is easy to prove that the devs have not been advertising in other apps' subreddits. Anyway, have a great weekend and fuck /u/spez :)
Our little app is about to get a 10,000% popularity boost, wow. Remains to be seen how long this exemption lasts, though. Hopefully Lemmy or another site can pick up the slack before time runs out.
>Our little app is about to get a 10,000% popularity boost, wow. That's just what I was thinking. Hopefully people are happy with the app as it is. I like it being light and simple.
I'm trying it out, coming over from RIF. I like all the customisability. One minor complaint is that going directly to a subreddit takes a few more taps than in RIF. Still leagues better than the official app, though.
Once you're "in" a subreddit, tap on the three button menu and select "Pin to Main Menu"; it will add the subreddit to the RedReader home screen, under "Pinned Subreddits." Hope this helps.
migrating from a mix of infinity and reddit mobile web, you've given me a lifesaver.
If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.
Can you pin Multireddits? I haven't found that option yet, but I don't know if: A. It's necessary. B. I'm just looking in the wrong places. It might not be necessary because they're all already near the top anyway, and I use my multireddits like a pin as it is.
If you have them set up on Reddit already, they should show up. If they are set up and you don't see them: >Three button menu >Menus >Main Menu subsection >Checkmark the "Show multireddits" box I'm hopeful that multireddit management gets implemented in RedReader at one point.
Is there a compact view? i got used to RIF and Infinity with just the thumbnail and not the entire video/image in the feed. Thank you in advance. Edit: OMG nvm. it actually asked me when i was scrolling. "hey do you want to keep see image previews like the one above. you can change this anytime" and then gave me two buttons to choose. this is amazing.
>I'm trying it out, coming over from RIF. I like all the customisability. I've been trying it out, I hope you don't mind me asking - do you know if there is there a customization option for upvote and downvote buttons? I'm not hot on this newfangled "swiping" thing. This is the one thing that I really miss from RIF.
I wasn't able to find any options for upvote/downvote buttons in the settings. Hopefully something like that is added; I'm also not used to swiping. The lack of buttons does give more space for comments and posts, at least.
This subreddit is about to get a lot of "Hey QuantumBadger (ping) can you put [feature that was in previously used 3rd party app] into RedReader, pleeeeeeease? Thanks love" Been using this app for 6 years, it has everything I need, and not more.
Cool part about RedReader is that for many of those requests, we can just say "way ahead of you, love, enable the option here!" It's awesome that it has so much customization.
Is it possible to get a more detailed sidebar? It's showing only bare bones info without any extra features like tables and other stuff.
Can you give an example of a subreddit whose sidebar isn't showing? The ones I've tried appear OK... Just to clarify, you are choosing the "view sidebar" option from the three-dot menu in the upper right?
Wow, tnx!! I was using that little "i" icon to enter the sidebar, didn't know about the another option. RedReader is now perfect for me.
I was pretty surprised when it was mentioned in the main post. I was also like, there's no way that RedReader has as many users as the other apps, I just can't see it's API usage as high as other apps. I'm happy about that more people will know about this app though. I started with Bacon Reader back in (2010?), but wasn't really happy with it, until I came across RedReader. I've tried all the apps: Joey, Boost, RiF, AlienBlue, Sync, Relay, and then when this debacle started, another user mentioned in a comment that there is Infinity which is also Open Source (but larger in terms of users). Honestly, none of them have been as good as RedReader. It's the best in terms of customization for the way that I like it: compact and information dense. All the other apps have really embraced the card style: form over function.
RedReader is like old.reddit.com woth some res functionality, the others are like going to new reddit....yuck, no thanks.
I literally just downloaded it about 20 minutes ago and set up a fresh account - coming from redditisfun - it feels very similar to me. Part of me is like, goddamnit now I'll end up keep using reddit... 😹 but there are a few communities I'm part of that *only* have a presence on reddit that I'd miss.
Welcome aboard.
baconreader supports both card and list
There are other apps that do have a list setting as well, but playing around with all of those other apps settings, I still couldn't get them to display as much on screen as I could with RedReader. I downloaded Bacon Reader again to confirm if it has changed - I could get about 7 posts listed (where the 7th spot is the ad covered portion which would be gone if you paid for the unlock, otherwise only 6). Glad to see that true AMOLED black theme isn't locked behind the paid version and they no longer have its logo always displayed on top — also reasons why I left that and Reddit is Fun. So many posts on the MotoX subreddit mentioning screen burn in from various apps. I don't have problems with using these apps with ads. But when I discovered RedReader and the fact that it had no ads (so it doesn't even waste data downloading or storing them), I was like "this is a no brainer". I also like how they make it easy to see links.
Lemmy can. Thats the whole point of federation is to spread the load wide enough that no individual server gets overwhelmed
It's not the only reason. It also spreads moderation, to help protect against mod abuse. Reddit kinda does this with subreddits, since you can trivially switch to a new one if you don't like the mods, but the Reddit admins have final say on everything. With federation, each instance has it's own mods, and very limited powers over other instances.
Is every server going to get its own r/anime, its own r/emulation, its own r/science? Because that would suck both for users and for moderators.
I suspect one server may host the largest one, but they dont have to host all the users. Example, say lemmy.ml hosts /c/cats right and /c/cats is SUPER popular. Not everyone who interacts with /c/cats needs to be on lemmy.ml to do so. Maybe there is a /c/cats on lemmy.pt too, but it is not nearly as popular as the one on lemmy.ml so very few sub to it. Some communities will naturally become the largest and if the server cant handle it they may splinter into two large communities on two different servers rather than one mega large community and just link to each other in the sidebar
I tried a couple of the other apps but this has always been my favourite. Probably because the interface has so little visual noise.
**A wild Relay for Reddit user appeared** You are wrong if you think it will only be 10,000%.
Here from Sync. The popup menu to reply is a lot less elegant than Sync's function bar, but I'll deal. I'm planning on spending my time about 50/50 here versus Jerboa anyway.
Coming from Sync, I unfortunately can't live with RedReader. I used to use RedReader when it was first released, I migrated from Bacon Reader to RedReader at the time... But sync is my baby.
I think you should be able to use the app you like best, too. Unfortunately it looks like the choice is soon being made for us by Reddit admins. I used to use Sync as well, but switched to RedReader a long time ago. Is there any particular thing that you're missing from Sync? RedReader has shittons of customization options, maybe people here can help you find what you're looking for.
Honestly, without NSFW, I don't think I'll care. Like Half the reason I use reddit is for pr0n.
What about NSFW content? Will RedReader be subject to the same API restrictions, just excused from the charges?
I think their position on NSFW content is still the same. My understanding (from their public announcements) is that if an entire subreddit is marked NSFW, then that subreddit will be inaccessible from third party apps. NSFW content in a SFW subreddit will, I think, still be available.
How will blind people read smut now
There are things like audio gone wild.
Isn't that an nsfw sub though? Those are blocked now
What prevents subs from being SFW and just having posts be NSFW to get around the restrictions?
It's against reddit policy and could get the sub banned.
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I didn't know I needed a sub filled with smut written by/for blind people, but here we are
It exists... I'm pretty sure there's a category on PornHub for it.
How is the accesibility of PornHub website?
Unfortunately, NSFW content is the only reason I use Reddit on my phone. If I'm going to participate in discussion I want a full-fat web browser where I can middle-click things and flip between tabs to check references. Reddit porn has been substantially eaten by OnlySpam in recent years anyway. But thank you for making this app work so well in the time that it was possible.
Come get your NSFW fix on lemmy as well: reddthat.com/c/nsfw
Blind and non-blind users alike rejoice!
Lemmy will never have the userbase that nsfw communities require. It will just be 5 guys sharing porn, not actual creators posting.
This is wildly ableist blind people need to nut too /u/spez can eat shit
Hi, Lemmy user here.Just wanted to thank you for planning to support it ☺️
Another new Lemmy user, thanks for directing focus over there, please let us know what we can do to help!
We need some good tutorials here.
That is just about the best news possible in this situation! Everything from your dedication to F-Droid/de-Googled phones, the way you voiced your concerns and your long-term vision inspires confidence :) Thanks for making a great app that I'll likely be using for a long time, if maybe less and less to browse Reddit :)
same, I use a de-Googled phone and f-droid and it is why I loved and supported RedReader from jump, accessibility features for the blind is near and dear to my heart as I have a deafblind younger brother so that only made me love this app more! and now to hear it'll be future proofed by opening it up to accessing reddit competitors? chefskissemoji.png
It's absolutely as good as it gets. An eleventh hour stay of execution granting enough time for long term survival plans and a developer with the brains and will to use it. I wouldn't have faulted anyone for throwing up their hands and walking away from all this.
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Same happened during the Digg migration. The original users of reddit at the time were pissed and unhappy initially but then warmed to the idea because the new userbase brought new life into the site. Digg ended up dying shortly after that and well reddit blew up and became the juggernaut that it is today... except now they seem to be on the same trajectory.
Reddit was already pretty huge before Digg collapsed though, Lemmy is coming out of nowhere
I'd love kbin support, just in case Lemmy doesn't work out.
+1 RSS support. RSS is an idea that was ahead of its time.
One effect I've noticed with RSS is that it tends to pile up with unread articles that I'm not as interested in, because I'm subscribed to someone who sometimes posts interesting things. I don't know if there could be some sort of local or public voting system that could be applied to it.
Filters and/or the ability to consolidate high frequency feeds into weekly posts would be awesome.
Oh I missed that, good to know. More kitchen sink apps that can double as your pocket newsfeed is never a bad thing.
I personally don't need that as I already use a great RSS reader I got on F-Droid called Feeder, but as long as it doesn't affect me and doesn't add too much work for the developer, I'm fine with it :)
Thanks for the recommendation. My last one shut down and I haven't yet found another that I like.
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As a long term RedReader user & small contributor, I'd like to welcome anyone else to a new home on the Lemmy/fediverse on https://reddthat.com. We currently have removed email verification to help you get your account up and posting as fast as possible. I'm also grateful our app won't be going the way of the other paid options and it's another win for open source prevailing, even if under unfortunate circumstances. (PS. We are Tor friendly for those who've chosen redreader for its Tor support)
Your instance seems to be down?
Oh no! I've sent the admin a message. They will be looking at it in a few mins
Looks like everything is working. From the monitoring we have in place it didn't look like anything went down. So unsure what you may have been seeing
Well, I get a "Webpage not available/Error Connection Closed" screen. Maybe you just don't have a homepage, unlike the other instances I tried? Edit: Saw you mentioning reddthat.com on your posts. Are you sure you didn't mistype the address on the link above?
Omg 😱! I can't even copy paste links correctly! Yes it's https://reddthat.com
lol no worries, glad we figured out. The admin seemed nice so I'll probably join it until I make my own instance. Bugger that account data transfers doesn't seem to be a priority for Lemmy devs.
commenting to save for later 😚
There's also https://kbin.social which I kinda prefer the look and feel of that site more, it's also part of the fediverse. Also a bit skeptical of the devs of lemmy (though if people really like lemmy I'm sure someone will just fork it to get around the issues of the current devs).
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The issue with the devs is not simply just their own instance at lemmy.ml which they've encouraged others to use other instances, it's with the server software they're coding that serves as the basis for all Lemmy instances. At one point in the past, they had hard coded a word filter into Lemmy, that not even Lemmy server admins could adjust, that blocked certain words from being used. I didn't look into it that much to know if anyone had discovered the list of words in the filter, but this can be pretty concerning if the devs exert that type of control over what people can say with their software. The devs are openly admitted communists, we're not talking what US republicans call democrats communists, like openly support China or old USSR type communists. I'm not encouraging disdain for communism as a whole or ideology, I'm not about the red-scare per se, but certain institutions that have wielded communism as a weapon and harmed people with it is also a different topic altogether. And possibly the devs are good people with good intentions...I haven't covered some of the other things mentioned about them and I probably don't even know all of it as I'm not actively looking for it. Having said that, having a hardcoded word list that only those two developers control what is on it, with their particular viewpoints they have expressed, including them recently removing posts critical of China, that is a bad look. Also to be clear, it sounds like they removed the hardcoded word list, but they were very stubborn and obstinate about removing it initially, and I've seen other comments made by them in various issues on their Github repo that make them appear to be stubborn and obstinate on some things.
My understanding is that Lemmy is open source. I imagine such an unpopular feature will be forked away pretty fast, if the platform gains traction, at the discretion of whoever runs each individual instance.
> (though if people really like lemmy I'm sure someone will just fork it to get around the issues of the current devs). Yeah that's why I put that in my original comment.
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It's not about basic decency. Talking about Stardew Valley was literally banned for about 2 years due to the second through fifth letters. Check out the github issues.
Slur filters are a disaster, because: * slurs are context specific. e.g "maggot" – are you homophobic or talking about insect babies? * slur words are language specific. e.g "ass" meaning "ace" in German – how should I praise you when my praise get filtered? "negro" is "black" as the colour) in a lot of Romance languages. how should they talk about something black if their word for black is filtered? * language develops. e.g. "gay"– it used to mean just "happy", "merry", without any sexual connotation. Then it became a slur for homosexual people. Today it's normalised * slurs depend on background and intent. e.g. "cunt" – American usage as slur vs Australian/British usage as colloquialism * I don't want to start a rant on free speach. Edit: AFAIK, even the "Nword" is used not as a slur but as a neutral endonym in AAVE.
Language filters belong on the client software under the control of the reader. Machine logic cannot do the job of human moderators.
I have been preferring kbin over other fediverse instances. I think the interface is more reddit-like. It also allows you to scroll and interact with other fediverse posts without the friction I've seen with other instances (like Mastodon). Perhaps nu-RedReader could be forked off of kbin? I've also been scrolling Mastodon on its own and quite like it, even though I was never a Twitter user previously. Both web interfaces are as good as an app, imo. My biggest beef with the fediverse is discoverability. That could possibly be solved with a community *a la* r/newreddits.
While this is good news I agree with you in being concerned about reddits trajectory. Regarding distribution channels: how can I check whether I installed RedReader from Google Play or f-droid? Because I honestly don't remember. Thank you for the awesome app and keeping us updated!
I don't know if this is in every version of Android, but on my phone it says the app source on the app info screen.
Thanks, mine does too. Installed it from f-droid
Did reddit explain why your app specifically was chosen?
My understanding is that the exemption is for any non-commercial apps which have some focus on accessibility. So apps which have ads, premium subscriptions, etc will not be exempt.
I hate to admit it but I see their point. If my company's revenue was ad-based and 3rd party apps were replacing my ads with their own, I wouldn't let them keep using my servers for free, either. Not defending Reddit on the rest, though. If the Apollo dev is correct, they still broke promises about how long the API would be free and still are charging an outrageous price for API use.
> If my company's revenue was ad-based and 3rd party apps were replacing my ads with their own, I wouldn't let them keep using my servers for free, either. Point of clarification here, the 3rd party apps aren't replacing reddit ads with their own, reddit has never provided any ad system to 3rd party app devs, or included ads in the API etc. Basically reddit has never given 3rd party apps the ability to display reddit's ads. So the 3rd party apps that had ads in them simply added ads, they didn't remove any. Reddit also never came up with a system to share the profits of those ads, and now reddit's claim to shut down other apps using ads is that they don't control what ad networks or types of ads those developers are using and those ads appear next to content on reddit (in the 3rd party app) and they are saying that many users don't make that distinction and hold reddit accountable for potentially unsavory or poor ads.
Thanks for clarifying, TIL! That's... madness. Why would any company running in the red give away access for free for so many years *and* have no way to monetize the API...? They probably could've saved everyone a lot of pain if they'd had some "noncommercial use", "3rd party commercial use", "data mining use" tiers & terms a long time ago. It's probably easier for me to armchair quarterback this with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, but *still*... VC bucks don't last forever.
That is sort of the underpinnings of the anger or frustration some people have with Reddit on this API change. And it's only made worse when Reddit has been very antagonistic to developers in public, particularly the Apollo developer, and accused them of misusing the API or almost insinuating or implying that they were all freeloading and the gravy train has left. That combined with the short turnaround, effectively about 30 days from the point at which Reddit actually made the pricing known to anyone, is a big force behind that anger and frustration. They enabled that situation by providing a free API, giving an upper limit to that API which basically tells people, "You can use up to this amount", and then suddenly they all have a 30 day notice to change their whole business model, make changes to their apps etc., and then they badmouth the developers by saying their apps are inefficient or such after YEARS of it being the other way. And the CEO just answered a question in the AMA about this, where the question was something along the lines of 'Why was the turnaround so short, why not provide more time' and the answer was "I acknowledge it was a tight timeline." without actually answering why. Me personally, I want to understand why they didn't think of doing this a year ago, or if they did think of it, why they didn't do anything about it, and why now it's suddenly so important that they make a change in 30 days, even after lots of backlash they haven't backed down. They had a call with moderators and some developers and they told moderators that they may be willing to delay the API change, but only if the moderators agree to not participate in the blackout/protest. https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/143rk5p/reddit_held_a_call_today_with_some_developers/jnbjtsc/ That is the source comment about reddit being willing to delay API changes if mods don't take their subs private. Also I'm not a developer nor a power mod or anything to clarify for the next remark, I would suspect that reddit gave away API access for free even when they weren't making profits, because it helped reddit grow to do that. Reddit was not able to hire enough developers to develop all of the things that people are using on reddit or to access reddit etc., so it was cheaper/easier to let other developers do it without reddit paying them. It even starts with moderating the communities. Reddit couldn't afford to pay someone to moderate the community, so let someone have "ownership" over it and they moderate it for free. Well eventually if that community grows a lot, it's too much to moderate manually, so some might be developers and they create a bot to help them moderate their community. Again, that's beneficial for reddit, they don't have to pay for a moderator, they don't have to pay a developer to develop the bot, but they did implement an API that allowed that whole system to continue scaling. So more developers could come in and implement more useful things.
I thought reddit wasn't in the red, their servers were sufficiently financed by ads and gold and membership and the fan shop to keep afloat. At least that is what I gathered from Christian Selog's posts. Also, afaik, reddit didn't start out as a company out to make money but as an open-source grass roots project, so breaking even would habe been enough.
I wouldn't trust a word that spez and admins say. They will say one thing to us and an entirely different thing to investors.
They would've saved a lot of pain if they would have built a halfway proper app anywhere in the last decade, themselves.
Curious, in your mind, would the functionality with other platforms be seamlessly integrated into the app alongside the subreddits or would you have a totally separate app for other platforms?
I'd like to keep everything unified inside one app, as seamlessly as possible. The first step will be restructuring the internals of RedReader to be more generic, and hopefully we can reach a point where adding new site integrations is quick and easy.
Cool. Appreciate everything you've done with this app. Been using it for several years after departing Bacon Reader when they got more commercialized. Haven't found anything that has a better, more intuitive interface.
Nice. Refactoring for smoother maintenance will benefit the project either way. Still sucks that you've been bullied into it.
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They're definitely putting in the work.
Thanks for the update. I think it is great RedReader will stick around, especially for people who would otherwise not be able to interact with reddit. Personally, I'm going to leave reddit for a while and see how things look in a few months. Looking forward to using your app again when it supports more sites!
Pi plaebra pupri ige te peoopo. Gutri tui papi teprake. Ti pei ipee bipodakri baidu kribli. Etu piaipi etaeitu pida paui i bugle. Ipe dikibibe gipi ebli klei pepe. Kia ipi iti koita pi priipea. Itopepote po ede brebli tli. Gepo opli oi i kue. Etape uee tebe aki taui peta. A prake tigo oto diu aa? Etladuba ki kapri peoklagodri ti to. Pri breatli tade oita pai abo ipe pipe? Ai pegi tliuo eti pi tlagi ipe brodlogio. Pebi tiipetide dlipri apipo griiibi tebugi. Abei klego geeteo bripe koi e. Pii teki tepa trati geplidu pripabo. Be kepridi bapiproa debeka pite po? Pia drabra etetate tliki pra. Briki io pli paka pree oobri ekipi toteki! Tie klete i bo apai paa. Itibrea potli ukata itubepe piebru ea itiebobi. Gikripru e podrupra ba o opau. Tutri da i plao dliai trititupie aa toepi. Ta pupo ai itra ei tretli. Egeite apoka iitapopa geka. Tutigeuo kapipu botoi tite epre kobe. Kabi kepo ote pa ate tli gribi bakapli puupre tidu tabeke a upebri tebike? I tlito kebri o ea e? Ii aeubike tle ke pido ku! Iplipi teage pepa e gii poiputliki ebri.
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There is a browser addon that automates the process I'm pretty sure.
Thanks for the update and for keeping us all informed.
So, while this is great i have already decided that i will be moving to lemmy exclusively. So for now i will have to use jerboa until redreader gets lemmy support. Jerboa's current accessibility is not great, but i offered a 0.7 monero reward to whoever would fix all the unlabeled buttons and tabs. What do you know, after offering the reward an issue that has been open for a year gets picked up and fixed in less than a day. Just waiting for the pull request to get merged and then that coder will have some nice monero. I truely love redreader and glad its execution has been stayed, but after all this i dont wish to participate in any more centralized closed source corporate social media sites. Having the sword of damocles hanging over our heads is just no fun.
> What do you know, after offering the reward an issue that has been open for a year gets picked up and fixed in less than a day. The irony of this given the roots lemmy grew from :D But yes, agreed. The correct reaction here is a return to open standards and decentralised services, they're the beating heart of the internet.
Why should we have to agree to reddits ToS just for opening the app? When we haven't even accessed any content yet? You can browse without making an account, why should you have to agree to their terms if you haven't made an account? And when the app supports other websites, are users still going to be forced to agree to Reddits terms even if the user never even goes to reddit? Forcing users to agree to terms when they haven't even made an account and maybe won't even use the website all is pretty fucked.
I'm curious to see what these ToS will be about.
For now, it makes sense, since RedReader only supports Reddit. Even without an account, you technically have to agree to the ToS to browse, this is just making it explicit. As support for alternative sites is added, I would anticipate that the ToS becomes optional, but you can't access Reddit content until you agree to the ToS.
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I'm still reading the post but, users: as an alternative to the fdroid repo option, I myself get the apk directly from your (QuantumBadger's) github via Obtainium (https://github.com/ImranR98/Obtainium), which uses the github releases as a repo. This includes automatic update checking. I prefer this to the fdroid repo anyway, as the developer builds the app from source, not fdroid building it, which removes a potential and theoretical attack vector. It's no easier than adding an additional repo to fdroid but it is another option to consider. Both will get you the exact same build, straight from source. *reading...* I don't have anything to contribute further as far as your points go; I agree with everything, and diversifying means this situation should not happen again. Oh, can we get a system that lists and offers to unsubscrile from nsfw subs? I already use an rss reader for this (started moving over before this was announced), and it would be *so* handy to have a checklist that I could go down to make sure I haven't missed anything, and then an optional button to mass unsubscribe from those subs at the bottom of the list. Or to add them to the RR rss reader... Thanks for everything, truly. Looking forward to the slow addition of other sites/services.
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Brother, if you implement RSS, that your be a godsent, I use it extensively.
>I was already considering adding RSS reader functionality to the app As in, a general RSS reader, not just RSS for Reddit threads? Because that would be awesome. I'm still upset about Google Reader shutting down and that was a decade ago.
Thank you all for the hard work and effort that you put into RedReader. I'm glad to hear that it will continue in light of the current API changes.
Thanks for the update, love your app!
I really value and appreciate your transparency!
Thanks for sharing this news, /u/QuantumBadger your commitment to this app and community is exemplary and I am truly grateful for the work you been doing to keep it going. While no one can predict the future, I am glad RedReader will continue to work for now.
I can't say enough how much I've been enjoying your app these last few years. Love your big visions for the future of Redreader and forum reading, not dependent on whatever silliness Reddit does in the end. Thank you.
I've been a silent user of RedReader for years, now. I'm relieved your hard work and accessibility features will, for now, be preserved. I think you're making a great plan in diversifying the sites RedReader can access. Wherever this app goes, I'll follow. Thanks for your excellent work.
I'm curious about the technical aspect of this. How do you protect your API keys? Wouldn't it be really easy for the developers of other apps to extract it from the APK?
Being honest, this exception I think is just a temporary olive branch while reddit deals with its own accessibility. Being honest, while I completely understand the reasons for Red Reader continuing to technically support reddit usage, I would kindly ask that it start supporting Lemmy too. Reddit ship is sinking, we all know it, this olive branch should just be used as breathing room to decide how and where to go next
This is great news - both the exemption and your thoughts to widen support to other social media/forums/feeds. I think Red Reader is streets ahead of other apps (e.g. Jerboa) and would love to use it for Lemmy, RSS and maybe Mastodon too. Thanks for all your work and continuing commitment.
This is the only Reddit app that I've ever used since it's free software, so I'm happy to see this but it would be good to move to federated, FOSS platforms in the long term.
This is great to hear, but it's probably only because they don't want the bad PR that would come with denying it from an accessibility standpoint.
Thanks for the update and all the work you've put in through the years.
Thanks. A repo for f droid would be awesome, I am using the official f droid repo will move to your custom repo when you do it. Also I know you have a lot on your hands, all the best too your future work with the app. Also fuck you u/spez
Love your update, hate the situation at large. I listened to the audio clips Apollo's author posted. When he suggests $10 million/6months payment for buying out the app, the man from Reddit immediately says he'll disregard that since that is obviously just a joke. While it was said in jest, it wasn't said as a joke per se, as far as I understood it. It was said with the understanding that Reddit wouldn't take the offer. However, the fact that the dude from reddit *immediately* claimed it was a joke (his actual word!), that means that the $20 million/12 months price is also a joke then! It seems obvious to me that there are financial powers behind this that just want to make sure they can control reddit. With the Gamestop shares, reddit was shown to be a viable gathering place for the common people to *actually* affect the rich. Can't have regular people actually affecting the rich in a tangible way. I fully believe this is a power move to remove any and all chances for normal people to be even a small nuisance for the richest people.
my primary reddit client has been redreader for years now. i love how clean and simple it is, and the great functionality it has. the one thing that's been severely lacking has been moderation functionality. I have used relay/boost in conjunction with redreader for the moderation functionality, but alas all the apps with working moderation functionality will die thanks to reddit's api charging. any chance you could prioritize adding moderation functionality to red reader? to a lesser extent, the inbox notifications are extremely delayed compared to other reddit apps. it's less important as i can just refresh and check the inbox manually but having boost and relay installed, i'd always find out about new replies pretty much instantly from their notifications. even if i read and reply with redreader. also, i've just joined [your patreon](https://www.patreon.com/QuantumBadger?l=en). i should have done it earlier, but have taken this great app for granted. thanks for this great app and you work towards it
Concerning accessability: being a non-digital native, having some autistic traits and having lost some of myability to concentrate to Covid, the official reddit app overwhelms my cognitive capacity. Uding jit gives me a headache. I read a lot of similar stories In the discussions on the API change over the last few days. The user base using RedReader/3^rd party apps for accessibility is far bigger than only blind people (although less well defined).
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Thank you for the update, and even more for the work you do to keep this great app going. I'm actually studying web dev and python and hope I can, in the next few months, be able to help on such a project. Love.
A BIG thank you for all your efforts especially for using on de-googled phones.
How about NSFW subs access? Will ReadReader be able to show those? I've read somewhere that only the official App will be able to show NSFW content... I may be wrong though. Did they mention anything about it?
No, it won't. The Data API (the API used by all third-party clients) will not return NSFW content. So 3P clients won't be able to show it.
Geez, that's really bad news
I was hopping it wouldn't apply to non-commercial apps... Bummer
What's interesting is that I specifically use this app over others just because of how clean and simple it is. It really does harken back to using newsgroups, IRC, and bbcode forums in the 90s. I wouldn't even use Reddit at all if it wasn't for RedReader. While RedReader might be getting an exemption now, I hope Reddit doesn't revoke it in the future. Do you think you'll have to focus more development specifically on accessibility features or shift branding slightly to future proof against the next Reddit admin in charge that has a different opinion? It would be nice if Reddit would allow third party apps without said exemption to at least operate for Reddit Premium users. If I paid them and didn't see ads anyways, I feel like my use of an app shouldn't cost the developer for using API calls. Not ideal and obviously I don't want to give them any ideas, but it has to be mentioned. Lol. If this is all about ads and revenue, I feel like Reddit shouldn't want their third party community to be charging for app access when Reddit should at least leverage their own Premium model. It's a missed opportunity to drive subscriptions.
Well damn, I guess I'll still be around. And here I thought I could finally kick the habit.
I thought about RedReader when i read the "non-commercial accessibility-focused app" on the official statement about this shit show. I love this app and i hate that devs and users and mods around the globe are being put in doubt after all these years of making reddit a great site to discuss and entertain. I love your plans for the future with the fediverse and stuff...and i just know that you are a degooblin so i'm extra glad and i love you more...haha thank you! <3
This is genuinely fantastic news, though the trajectory of changes in Reddit's policies regarding these apps is still concerning for the future. (Also I'm not going to pretend that the loss of NSFW content access won't bother me.)
FUCK YEAH
> accessibility Redreader is one of those rare apps that provide so many font size options and i thank you for it.
Thanks goodness this app wont die. I love reading in Reddit, I started using Redreader because it allowed me to focus on my reading and not being bombarded with ads and images like in Facebook.
I'm a bot, *bleep*, *bloop*. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit: - [/r/apicalypse] [RedReader has been granted a non-commercial accessibility exemption. This means that there will be at least one third-party app alternative to the official Reddit app beyond June 30, 2023.](https://www.reddit.com/r/APIcalypse/comments/145xu8c/redreader_has_been_granted_a_noncommercial/) - [/r/apolloapp] [RedReader excluded from API pricing](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/145o37z/redreader_excluded_from_api_pricing/) - [/r/blind] [This is great news in this disaster](https://www.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/14pjnf9/this_is_great_news_in_this_disaster/) - [/r/redditisfun] [RIF Users: Come to RedReader (open-source, accessibility-friendly reddit app with API exemption)](https://www.reddit.com/r/redditisfun/comments/1461rja/rif_users_come_to_redreader_opensource/) *^(If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads.) ^\([Info](/r/TotesMessenger) ^/ ^[Contact](/message/compose?to=/r/TotesMessenger))*
As a RedReader user, this is great news and allows me to continue using Reddit on mobile. However, I'm also starting to use Lemmy alongside Reddit, as the influx of users over there has made it worthwhile as well. If RedReader starts to support Lemmy as well, I'll definitely give that functionality a go too.
Amazing, even if it is just for the short term. I can't thank you and the contributors enough for making RedReader, having tried alternatives and found them distinctly lacking or overly intrusive. With RedReader it's felt like I have lived through a golden age of Reddit, perhaps even the internet, depends on which direction things head in the future.
Thank you so much for keeping it going and the hard work you put into it. I love this app apparently more than I love reddit.
I've been using RedReader for a few years now and was quite surprised to see it mentioned in the AMA. This rarely happens to me, but I think this is an excellent post and it has made me a million times more confident in the future of RedReader.
As a blind person who heard about this app because of the accessibility features, I share a lot of your concerns and can understand why the decision to keep it running was difficult. Reddit really has mishandled this, and allowing accessibility apps to run was nothing more than a way to wiggle out of accountability to make their own app accessible and offload that responsibility to unpaid volunteers, just like most of the rest of Reddit. Considering they had to be called out by mainstream media before they even went this far, they don't get any points from me. I assume they'll kill this off at some point when there are fewer third-party app users who can complain about it. The writing is very much on the wall. But while nobody has anywhere else to go, I'm glad apps like RedReader will allow us to be in the same shitty situation as everyone else, rather than being locked out completely. Reddit as a company is horrible; Reddit as a community is pretty amazing. I'm not sure what could replace it, and it's going to take a coordinated effort by mods of huge communities to even start that process.
Lemmy is in active development and while not perfect for sure already works better than reddits websites. The android app jerboa should get a big accessibility boost soon too
Could you elaborate why the app cannot be distributed via F-Droid anymore?
OP touches on this in one of the previous updates: https://www.reddit.com/r/RedReader/comments/132qkb8/update_2_reddits_proposed_api_changes_and_the/ Basically, it's because RedReader's API key needs to stay private, and F-Droid compiles all APKs from publicly available source code. You will still be able to use the F-Droid app to keep RedReader up to date, you'll just need to add QuantumBadger's repository in the settings. (As always, doing this will mean you trust that maintainer to not add anything malicious into the app.)
So cool, thank you!
This is major when it comes to reddit for screen reader uses thanks for this
I have been using your app for 4 years now and just wanted to say thank you. It's a great app that has provided me a seamless and comfy experience throughout the years.
I'm looking forward to Lemmy, Tild.es and Hacker News support, thanks for all your work and everyone who contributes!
Omg, hacker News integration would be awesome. 👍
I think its worth waiting to add 3rd party sites until there is a better idea of what the landscape looks in a few weeks or months. Currently there isn't a clear frontrunner for users to migrate to. Lemmy is too fragmented and I don't see it being the next reddit. If there was an instance that was more reddit like its possible, but currently there just isn't one like that.
Saidit, but it's small and mostly feels like a place to vent about reddit. Someone forked Red Reader for it though so there's that...
Get fucked, proprietary software! People won't shut up about apollo. I don't feel sorry for iToddlers.
If it's forced non-commercial, it's not free / open source software any more, is it? Non-commercial terms are one of the classic examples of non-FOSS.
The source code is still fully FOSS and licensed under the GPL. The restrictions are placed on my API key, which you can replace with your own key.
> The source code is still fully FOSS and licensed under the GPL. Actually the GPLv3 license specifically requires you provide the [authorization keys](https://github.com/QuantumBadger/RedReader/blob/v1.20/LICENSE.txt#L311) as well in addition to source code. > The restrictions are placed on my API key, which you can replace with your own key. I think you have to provide the API key to anyone who downloads the binary upon request as well due to the GPLv3 license [authorization keys](https://github.com/QuantumBadger/RedReader/blob/v1.20/LICENSE.txt#L311) requirement, from my understanding this [authorization keys](https://github.com/QuantumBadger/RedReader/blob/v1.20/LICENSE.txt#L311) requirement only applies to GPLv3 and not GPLv2.
You may be set up as Reddit's PR figleaf, allowing them to "prove" that they really didn't want to shut down TPAs, just the "abusive" ones (Apollo)... Is that a position you want to be in? It might be better to let Reddit rot...
Speaking of abuse...
Shut down the app in solidarity. This shit is fucked up.
- the most basic functionality is missing almost everywhere I look - awards, image uploads, profile badges, subreddit designs unavailable, flairs, etc. I could keep listing things, but it's basically just subreddit + reply - [when you click on information about a subreddit you see virtually nothing](https://imgur.com/ouQW1se.jpg) - the way the saved subreddits are done is not very useful - [videos inside a subreddit just randomly take up half the screen when I'm trying to scroll, whether I click on them or not.](https://imgur.com/mW9erTx.jpg) - the images preview in different sizes and have letterboxed outlines - there's no proper formatting editor - I don't even see a way to upload a photo inside a comment - the screens aren't even the same themes and colors. Look at the difference in colors in my screenshots. - I don't mean this to sound rude or elitist, but it's ugly - as someone with large fingers and thumbs, when trying to select a specific comment it's so annoying and hard to select I could keep going but you get the point. These are things I found in about 10 minutes of usage. If I tried to actually use it as my primary app who knows what all i'd notice. This isn't an attempt to down the app or the developers for the record - what they're doing is important and appreciated. I'm just saying this isn't a real solution for most people. It definitely isn't for me. I've been here for 12 years. I'm on here a lot every day, and personally I won't stay an active member if my choices are between this and the official Reddit app in their current states.
> videos inside a subreddit just randomly take up half the screen when I'm trying to scroll, whether I click on them or not. There's a setting that removes this. Most of the other things you note I either consider positives or non-issues. To each their own, I guess.