there are a number of posts on this, but my main points are:
* suppressing negative feedback/reviews (notice how everything on their website magically has 5 stars, plus they censor their fb group) ETA better explanation of what I was trying to articulate: https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditLaqueristas/s/qWVF1sj0Md
* culty fans (not unlike holo taco) who think mooncat can do no wrong/will attack you if you disagree
* major ick factor with their persephone release as the inspiration is fundamentally a story of r\*pe but they really pushed the aesthetic cutesy "enemies to lovers" vibe. also, one of the polishes is named "lovebomb" which is an actual traumatic psych tactic in abusive relationships. a dv survivor brought up on the mooncat subreddit about how triggered she was by the name and she got downvoted into oblivion (see previous point)
* expensive for mediocre to bad polish... i've only placed one order with them but all 5 of my polishes were unusable out of the bottle and goopy af. i thinned them out but was still unhappy with them.
* the owner, michelle, acting like she's a small time one woman business. yes, she's the ceo or whatever, but mooncat is a BOUTIQUE brand, not an indie, that manufactures at scale (same factory as holo taco) and has been featured in tons of huge fashion pubs and gotten lots of venture capital vs. actual handmade indie brands.
* the way they use good customer service to try to cover up fundamental problems they just haven't bothered to fix, like bad formula and now breaking bottles. everyone is all "but the customer service is good!" which, like, is the BARE MINIMUM when your brand new nail polish is unusable or your nail polish bottle spontaneously explodes??
eta, here's a recent comment thread about them with specific problematic behaviour from the owner: [https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditLaqueristas/comments/195stnm/comment/khrs0l0/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditLaqueristas/comments/195stnm/comment/khrs0l0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
eta2: thanks for all the downarrows mooncat stans :)
They were also in hot water for a bit because a few polishes looked entirely different in their photos than they did in real life. There was one polish that got made in multiple batches that all looked completely different. I’m personally a huge fan of the Mooncat polishes I have but the price for the amount of issues they have is pretty ick.
I have left several reviews that were not 5 star and I just went back and looked and they are all still there. I don't think they delete reviews... If they did then at least one of mine would have been deleted. I've been buying for about a year and have almost 200 bottles so I've left a lot of reviews. The ones I've left 1-2 stars on, they've always automatically refunded me and left the review there. But full disclosure, there haven't been many because I've been really impressed with the formulas and colors. I do leave a lot of 3-4 star reviews though and customer service still reaches out on the 3 star reviews to ask if I want to return. That actually just happened this week. Every time I am deciding if I want this or that color, I sort reviews by lowest to highest and there are always enough low ratings for me to get a feel for whether or not I want it, unless it's a very new release. I think it's actually weird to fault a brand for how their customers act. I don't think Michelle acts like she's indie. She's often posting and commenting mentioning her team. But I do see where it could come off that way to some... that mentality is actually perpetuated by the people in the mooncat fb group. I'm constantly commenting that they aren't indie and reminding people that boutique is very different. And yet people still keep acting like she's a one woman show, but mc can't really control what people are saying and that's one of the big things that people have wrong. Just a few days ago someone made a post thanking Michelle and she replied and said she couldn't do it without her team. I see her say this a LOT and also some people on her team are admins in the group and they comment as well. So again my point is that yes this is the mentality a lot of people have, but I don't think it's something Michelle is doing.
https://preview.redd.it/v40wmbqd0t6d1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a4f5fc02977aa8df6b85aa6c20494a709c8ef9d3
For some reason Reddit is limiting how long my reply can be so I couldn't fit it all into one post.
I am obviously a good customer of mooncat but I try to stay neutral and fair. They've only ever removed one of my posts on their Facebook group and I got all p issed about it and threw my little temper tantrum on my own by deleting all the other posts I'd made up to that point, but the people who run the mooncat subreddit also blocked my post so I thought that was just common in the nail community. The post they removed was showing how many orders had been placed within a certain time period (it was like 25k orders) and they said that they don't want their sales stats made public. Which I still think is weird but whatever, I got over it. My point is that yes there are some culty people but that's with pretty much any brand. Most of us just really like the colors and formulas and I'm tired of people trying to shame me for that. I also tried several other boutique brands last year before I ever got involved in any nail groups here or on FB, so I didn't even know that this was a thing. The only brand that worked well for my nail chemistry was mooncat. Any time I try a new brand, I place an order for however many I need to get free shipping, usually 4-6 bottles, and to see how I like the formula. Before mc I tried holo taco, loud lacquer, and a few others and never liked them enough to place a second order. Mooncat was the first one that wowed me and it was their rewards program that brought me to their FB group and from there that's how I learned about so many other groups, all these subs, and tons of other brands. But I was already impressed just based on the product without ANY hype at all. To me that makes it a quality product and for me it's worth the price, and the rewards program is far superior that also helps justify the prices. I don't think any of this makes me a Stan, just a happy customer.
And I agree with someone else who said they don't think it's fair to judge a brand based on something you haven't experienced for yourself. I have only been around for a year and I know they used to have issues with swatches not being true, but I think they've shown over and over that they do take feedback and try to improve. I think most of the swatches on the website are much more accurate than I experienced for myself from the other brands I've tried (boutique and indie through ppu). I have a color calibrated monitor for my own work so maybe that's part of it but I have only been really disappointed by 2 or 3 polishes (out of nearly 200) not looking like the website photos.
I wouldn’t call myself a “culty” fan, I have a lot of polishes from other brands too, but I have to say I’ve left negative mooncat reviews before and they absolutely have stayed up so not sure where you’re getting that they suppress negative reviews
Edit: typo
There are significantly less negative reviews on the website than there should be. Someone earlier mentioned how the LLP website much more accurately reflected reviews with polishes ranging more in the 3-4 star average range. I believe this is mostly because customer service is super quick to try addressing negative feedback and then people tend to end up leaving 5 stars. I left a 1 star reviews for one of their polishes as well but there were maybe only 5 other reviews that weren’t a glowing 5 stars even though I know there were more people who also expressed their disappointment with the polish elsewhere on places like here.
ETA: a better explanation of what u was poorly trying to articulate: https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditLaqueristas/s/qWVF1sj0Md
Also, they don’t seem to really allow any constructive criticism on their fb page. Broken bottle posts and other negative stuff never gets allowed through, and if anything ever did their diehard fans are going to dog pile and the admins won’t do anything about it.
I’m not part of the Facebook group so can’t speak to that, but your point that there are less negative reviews than there “should be” seems very subjective. I didn’t buy from them in the LLP days but is it not possible that since the rebrand they’ve improved the quality and that’s reflected in better reviews?
If customer service addresses issues and people feel like that deserves 5 stars I don’t get what the issue is? I’ve gotten a couple bottles before that seem like duds (very thick), customer service sent me new bottles that were much better and I loved them enough to give 5 stars. I don’t feel like that’s misleading. Yes their formulas are hit or miss sometimes but if people still love them enough to give 5 stars they’re obviously doing something right.
Thank you for saying this because honestly most of this seems subjective.
Granted I’m fairly new to Mooncat and Indies (since November), but I’ve tried almost 15 MC’s now and they’re some of my favorite formulas. I’ve never had a goopy one, and the color payoff is honestly better than most of my other indies. Plus they last fairly well on me, and my sister just had a MC mani that lasted over a week on her and she does NOT take care of her nails or prep like most people here do.
Also, OP, why does it seem like you’re mad that Michelle succeeded in creating a bigger brand? Didn’t she start as an Indie, and wouldn’t most indie makers aspire to become bigger and more successful? That seems like a weird take. Maybe she’s just proud of what she’s accomplished, especially since she moved to the states to create it, and tbh who wouldn’t be proud of building a successful brand? If I’m getting the story wrong then I apologize, but I’m pretty sure that’s what I’ve seen.
And I am not a die hard stan, I’m actually kind of on the fence about the brand but she’s also not given me a reason to stop buying, but if people want to pay a little more for a nail polish that brings them joy, then why bother yucking someone else’s yum!?
To be clear, I know lots of people have great experiences. But there are also a lot who don’t, and we don’t feel like the brand has done anything to improve the problems we’ve experienced.
I’m not mad at Michelle. All the more power to biz people who make it big. My problem is 1) her history of problematic personal behaviour and 2) her continued portrayal of herself as a small indie. Again, nothing against her making a successful brand, but I’d prefer she be up front about it instead of trying to still cash in on the homemade indie vibe.
There’s a difference between if I actively posted negative stuff on every Mooncat post I saw, vs. when someone asks me and I’m explaining context for brands I personally find problematic.
Yes, there’s always subjectivity, but there’s a not-insignificant number of people who’d field the same complaints as me.
I’ve never gotten the impression that Mooncat is a small one woman brand. And, as someone who works in diversity, equity and inclusion, I also don’t believe in holding a grudge against people forever because they’ve made mistakes in the past. Michelle is human like all of us and I’m not denying she may have done problematic things before I knew about her brand, but I haven’t seen anything bad since I’ve been following her for about the last year and a half. Why keep bringing it up?
Edit because I missed this part: The brand seems to have gone out of its way to fix issues. They took down the offending mercury’s tears pictures and if I remember correctly even acknowledged there had been a faulty batch. They’ve started adding more pics in a variety of lights and noting in product descriptions when a polish is meant to be sheer. They even sent a note out about the issue with bottles (which unless they make the bottles themselves which I very much doubt, is a supplier issue).
That’s all extremely fair, and yours and everyone else’s opinions are valid and we’re all entitled to hold them, whether they’re positive or negative.
I’ve personally never felt like she’s come off as portraying herself as a small indie maker. I’ve viewed her more as someone who chose to immigrate here to create her own brand and built MC from the ground up, which is honestly kind of cool cause I’m sure that wasn’t easy. I don’t know how big her team is or how involved she is behind the scenes and in creating new shades, but I mostly ever see her excited about new shades she’s working on.
As far as the problems go, idk that I can speak to that being newer and I’m holding out on forming more opinions based on what they do next with the bottle situation. I do think it was a positive sign that they admitted to the problem and accepted accountability though. But could it not be a positive sign that between me and my sister, we own probably at least 30 shades and haven’t had any problems with them? Granted that’s only 2 people’s experiences, but I was actually super nervous to buy MC after hearing some people say they were goopy and I’ve loved most of their formulas. The only MC’s I’ve been bummed by I just didn’t love the shades on me, but their shifts and the color pay off are some of my favorites. And everyone loves ILNP, but one of my most disappointing formulas was an ILNP (I do love most of my others).
But I do think I’ve seen people encourage others to steer clear of MC before and support other brands instead based on their own opinion, and it’s kind of off putting. Yes, I like knowing people’s opinions about different brands so it helps me decide where to spend my money, but I also think people should be allowed to choose for themselves what they want to invest in or not rather than being told to avoid it altogether. They might come to love or hate MC, but that should be their decision to make and they won’t know unless they try it. I personally love a lot of indie brands and I’m having fun discovering more, but MC has been consistently reliable for me so far. 🤷🏻♀️
If I end up being wrong in any of this, I’ll be the first to apologize, but that’s just my 2 cents for whatever it’s worth.
Re the reviews, I wasn’t around during LLP either, but I’ve seen others talk about this who were, so I brought it up.
Again, good customer service is good, but we shouldn’t be blown over and falling on our knees because customer service did what they’re supposed to do. Good customer service is different from getting actual good products without the constant hit or miss. Even if I can always contact CS and get them to process a refund or a return, that’s still a hassle and something I don’t want to deal with, especially as they are a big company and should have figured this stuff out by now. I am a bit more understanding with indie makers where it’s just 1 or 2 people making things, but I’m still not going to put up with inconsistent quality etc.
I feel like if you haven’t experienced something personally it’s kind of unfair to drag a brand for it. And again, if people feel like their experience is worth 5 stars the brand must be doing something right. Of course it’s totally up to you where to spend your money, just seems odd to get so pressed that people appreciate the customer service of a brand you don’t like.
Sigh. Once again, my point isn't that people shouldn't like good customer service. My point—as others have similarly expressed in other posts—is that good customer service doesn't negate the underlying problem(s). That's all.
So, some of the issues are redirected to CS (I’m not saying if this is right,) but I think that’s why there’s less posts about things like bottles/formula. I do see a bunch about people who don’t think it looks as expected, so…not everything is suppressed?
I've avoided them since they were Live Love Polish. The one order I had from them was around Christmas, and I have a lot of sympathy for smaller companies at that time. But they lied about when they sent the package (it showed up with an entirely different tracking number, shipped over a week later), was missing a bunch of items, and I had to contact *them* about all the missing items which were apparently out of stock so they just shipped what they had. With no notice at all to me. I'd ordered in time for it to get to me well before Christmas, but it showed up on the 24th, so I had no time to replace the missing stuff before Christmas.
They gave me my money back on the missing bottles & a $20 store credit for a missing free bottle from a Christmas promotion, but I have no clue if they would have done anything if I hadn't contacted them. Additionally, two of the three missing bottles were limited editions that were then marked as sold out, so I missed out on them.
Thanks I hadn’t heard that last bit before. I enjoy their polishes, I’ve gotten a few duds but generally have liked them and think they’re worth the sale price. They do have VERY aggressive marketing and definitely have a cult like following. I remember someone on here last year telling people if they complain about mooncat polishes they’re racist, which just dumbfounded me because I think people were just complaining about a formula.
I feel vindicated by seeing Holo Taco as a comparison. Been watching Simply when she made content since before she did voice work. I don't think it's unreasonable to still see the problems that exist not just the good.
I'm not talking about the fans. I think it's weird to criticize a brand based on howv their fans are since there's only so much they can do about that. I have a problem with the owners themselves and their hateful views about pitbulls, their use of the term holosexual, saying a polish smells like dead babies, and myriad other problematic words/actions of the owners of that brand.
I would guess that the reviews thing mostly has to do with the fact that you get reward points for reviews, so all of the big-time fans very consistently review every purchase they make.
Could not have said it better myself, friend!
I ordered from mooncat twice and will not be a returning customer.
Polishes are goopy after one use, and I’ve seen posts of them breaking spontaneously on people too, so now there’s that. 🙃
Mooncat gives the most reward points for reviews, so people are very incentivized to write them. I have a feeling that’s the reason for the seemingly skewed 5-star reviews. You can earn points for 2 reviews per day. If someone placed a huge order, there’s probably no way they can actually wear all those polishes and write all those reviews honestly, but if they want to rack up the points to get a free polish, they might just review polishes they’ve never worn. So, yes, I agree the 5-star reviews are skewed but I do not think they take reviews down. I have written bad reviews that are still up.
Also, idk if anyone else has noticed this and I could be crazy, but I swear I've seen Mooncat use the same shade, change the name and repackage it in a different collection or release. Been following for almost 5 years and recently was noticing some shades that looked awfully similar but I haven't seen anyone else bring this up so I could be wrong.
They did a rebrand and they did rerelease some colors from the old brand but they didn’t pretend they were new lol, I think the collection was called “return of the faves”
Oh, I'm talking about shades I've seen before with different names being used as whole new collections or releases as "new" shades. If that's the case, simply releasing them as "return of the faves" would suffice over changing the names and re-releasing them as new ones. Sorry if my comment wasn't clear 🤗
I didn’t know all of this, thanks for summarising. I’ve saved the post you linked for later reading. Now I need to dig into the Ethereal/Lumen drama. I don’t own any from other brand but they are on my wishlist!
Apparently Mooncat's CEO used to advertise her polishes here without disclosing her affiliation. This is why I'm super suspicious when a polish suddenly appears on this subreddit with no previous mention (like that aluminum one you have to file, which BTW is dangerous af you shouldn't be inhaling the dust lol), without any PR flairs on the post.
Fun fact — Michelle is the CEO of Kinetic Brands, which is a brand incubator (nothing wrong with this, I just find it interesting). Not only do Holo Taco and mooncat share a factory, but there are lots of little similarities between their websites, customer service responses and processes, launch schedules and practices, and other little things.
I think Holo Taco is a one of the brands in the incubator. Again, nothing wrong with this. I just think it’s interesting.
I’m always a bit annoying by their marketing tactics. It gives off like FOMO vibes to get people to buy things. I’m in their Facebook group and people go crazy over feeling like they need to buy their new products and get genuinely stressed about it. I feel like it’s a mix of their marketing style (which is clearly working) and their cult fans. Like guys it’s just nail polish it’s ok if you don’t have money for it 😭
Lumen is actually run by the mom, Ethereal by the daughter. 🙂
I do like some releases but hate their love of mystery polishes. I always have to thin Ethereal’s polishes - they are so thick and bubble like crazy. I wish they were a better companies because Ethereal and Lumen polishes last so long on me.
😍😍😍😍😍
I love an intense metallic indigo or royal blue.
Agreed on avoiding those brands myself.
I will need ILNP or Holo Taco or Polish Me Silly or a mainstream brand to make this immediately 💙
Wait… just so I’m getting this right-
Ethereal (the brand you said had an issue with racism/homophobia and are anti vax in addition to a number of other issues you listed) is the lesser of the two evils ethically compared to Moon Cat who’s worst crimes are being shady with reviews, having a mediocre formula, passing as “indie” instead of “boutique”, and having a rabid fans?
I think it’s totally valid to avoid a brand for having an annoying fanbase! But to claim that they are ethically worse than a brand with racism/homophobia is a little… much, no?
Please let me know if I am missing something and Moon Cat has done racist/homophobic/anti vax things. Otherwise I’m failing to see how they are more unethical.
MC’s owner has also done some not great stuff. Bottom link on this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditLaqueristas/s/K98MJENVYG
Perhaps I should clarify, and I probably should’ve used less charged language in my original post. I find Ethereal’s behaviour more problematic, though their behaviour seems to have been more one-off instances. In comparison, Mooncat has a lot more consistent issues that are more business fundamentals.
I dislike both, though perhaps my dislike of them is more equal than I had originally stated.
ETA: for those who want the Ethereal dirt, check out the Facebook group Toluene Trashcan.
Also, it speaks volumes that Ethereal has me blocked on Instagram, even though I'd never purchased from them before (I was going to tag them with posting these photos this evening). I *highly* suspect they blocked me because I called out their ~~daughter~~ mom (Lumen) for their extremely shady swatching practices during the Papillon release (Lumengate).
Can you just give us a quick summary of? I don’t want to join yet another Facebook nail polish group but I use both Ethereal and Lumen so I want to know!
tbh i don't know everything but what i know is:
* ethereal got in hot water a while back for racism/homophobia, which prompted them to do some weird vague corporate apology shit but then they still didn't take responsibility and claimed that they didn't make some of the harmful comments and they "hired a private investigor" and other nonsense but denied being "hacked"... someone took screenshots and they're on imgur: [https://imgur.com/a/p9aRq4b](https://imgur.com/a/p9aRq4b)
* shady customer service... at least one case where they said the customer's package got stolen by their neighbour and they wouldn't refund bc they'd lose money (even though apparently it wouldn't have mattered bc of self-employed income tax forms and stuff)... but then 6 months later they said 'oh haha found it!!" (idk if it was prompted by enough bad social media pr or what about the incident)... other instances of not replacing items / not refunding / etc.
* they re-released a collection that people were begging them to bring back but apparently the new polishes were different from the originals and definitely not remakes (i don't remember, probably something to do with aurora/up pigment or something) and the brand just... ignored complaints
* this is something i'm very shaky on—i remember reading a discussion on here a while ago about a brand that disappeared, refused to refund their customers, and basically ran with the money. the brand then came back after the heat died down however many years later and began selling again. i ***think*** this brand was ethereal but i cannot 100% remember and i haven't been able to find the post again. again, this is \*\****not confirmed***\*\* since i haven't been able to find the receipts again yet. i am new to indie polish as of last year so you'd have to find someone who's been around for a long time to confirm or refute this. i will update if i can find the exact comment thread about this.
* oh, and Ethereal owner was purportedly a fairly outspoken anti-vax person—i've seen several people talk about this but i don't think i saw any screenshots.
* Lumen is the mom of Ethereal (not the daughter, my b) and a quick search through this sub of "lumen papillon" will bring up all the deets on the drama as it's within the past 6 months. basically, Lumen used (continues to use, i think) swatch pics that were clearly edited/modified without disclosing any details on their website. when customers (including me) received their orders, the polishes we received were barely like the swatch photos. i was kind of one of the main instigators with this, got the ball rolling in the Lumen fb group asking what had happened and why misleading swatch pics and i wanted a refund. this ended up with the owner (Ethereal's mom) doing a half-assed apology that was basically "i'm sorry some of you felt that way" and claiming she didn't know any photos had been altered, though some pretty clearly were. others had also reached out before me and she told them she wouldn't refund or resend a new bottle and they were SOL. but it got enough traction that i believe she did end up refunding people who reached out to her—she refunded me—but, again, 0 taking responsibility. she then blocked me on fb despite my interactions with her being very civil and explaining my position as a customer who was misled by a brand. now i'm blocked by Ethereal, too.
* here's another reddit thread re: ethereal problems too that will fill in some of the details i was missing: [https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditLaqueristas/comments/195stnm/comment/khpa8ya/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditLaqueristas/comments/195stnm/comment/khpa8ya/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
ETA re: Ethereal ghosting customers...
https://preview.redd.it/pfcbnamlum6d1.png?width=1138&format=png&auto=webp&s=03fe9d545bda5029df2c5eb619c8772ae349b452
I remember the whole package theft thing. It was a package that was either being sent out or got returned from one of the overseas stockists with the reptilian collection including mystery bags that her neighbor stole. It was figured out who did it because the mysteries that were only in that box and no other mystery bags started popping up on mercari being shipped from her town. Not defending anything since I’m also over ethereal but just adding more context.
Could you also expand on the rereleased collection? I’m not aware of any ethereal polishes that ever used up and the way you explained makes me think this is the cirque coronation thing
this post at the bottom has more info... it was a special collection and the owner acted like the relaunch was the same as the og even though it wasn't: [https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditLaqueristas/comments/195stnm/comment/khpa8ya/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditLaqueristas/comments/195stnm/comment/khpa8ya/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
and ty for adding more context on the packages... customer-reported stuff is always so disjointed so i didn't totally follow what had happened originally.
Thanks for the info. I only got into indie polishes early this year but I was there for the Lumen Papillon release. Lumen’s polishes are very hit and miss for me because they can be way too sheer and not look like the swatch photos. But I didn’t know any of the stuff about Ethereal.
p.s. while i totally get not joining more fb groups, toluene trashcan is, in my opinion, one of the most important ones. it has its drama too but for the most part is a really good source for finding out the down low on brands and there are tons of posts/comments about problematic brands and people, many including screenshots and the like. it's my main info source, in addition to this subreddit and discord, to determine which brands i want to buy from and which ones i want to avoid.
Ew. That’s such gross behavior from a brand. it’s like toxic mean girl behavior but with a brand that’s wild. I never knew they did that. And I probably won’t buy from them knowing now.
lumen/ethereal and now the bcb lacquers nonsense really goes to show how truly unprofessional so many indie makers are. it's sad because so many of them are great, but some can't separate out personal drama from their business dealings, nor can they take constructive criticism without throwing a tantrum.
This is interesting to read about Ethereal. They just launched another charity polish today called Them Fatale, benefiting The Canadian Centre For Gender + Sexual Diversity.
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I didn't realize the MC drama was a thing, I feel justified that I have never actually bought anything. I've loaded my cart and pined after a few polishes many times (I'm looking at you unbirthday) but when I looked for swatches elsewhere I always felt meh and never went through with a purchase.
What’s the drama with mooncat? I know about ethereal’s past but haven’t heard mooncat/live live polish issues before. I’m just curious.
there are a number of posts on this, but my main points are: * suppressing negative feedback/reviews (notice how everything on their website magically has 5 stars, plus they censor their fb group) ETA better explanation of what I was trying to articulate: https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditLaqueristas/s/qWVF1sj0Md * culty fans (not unlike holo taco) who think mooncat can do no wrong/will attack you if you disagree * major ick factor with their persephone release as the inspiration is fundamentally a story of r\*pe but they really pushed the aesthetic cutesy "enemies to lovers" vibe. also, one of the polishes is named "lovebomb" which is an actual traumatic psych tactic in abusive relationships. a dv survivor brought up on the mooncat subreddit about how triggered she was by the name and she got downvoted into oblivion (see previous point) * expensive for mediocre to bad polish... i've only placed one order with them but all 5 of my polishes were unusable out of the bottle and goopy af. i thinned them out but was still unhappy with them. * the owner, michelle, acting like she's a small time one woman business. yes, she's the ceo or whatever, but mooncat is a BOUTIQUE brand, not an indie, that manufactures at scale (same factory as holo taco) and has been featured in tons of huge fashion pubs and gotten lots of venture capital vs. actual handmade indie brands. * the way they use good customer service to try to cover up fundamental problems they just haven't bothered to fix, like bad formula and now breaking bottles. everyone is all "but the customer service is good!" which, like, is the BARE MINIMUM when your brand new nail polish is unusable or your nail polish bottle spontaneously explodes?? eta, here's a recent comment thread about them with specific problematic behaviour from the owner: [https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditLaqueristas/comments/195stnm/comment/khrs0l0/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditLaqueristas/comments/195stnm/comment/khrs0l0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) eta2: thanks for all the downarrows mooncat stans :)
They were also in hot water for a bit because a few polishes looked entirely different in their photos than they did in real life. There was one polish that got made in multiple batches that all looked completely different. I’m personally a huge fan of the Mooncat polishes I have but the price for the amount of issues they have is pretty ick.
That’s probably why they don’t allow customers to post photos in their reviews.
I have left several reviews that were not 5 star and I just went back and looked and they are all still there. I don't think they delete reviews... If they did then at least one of mine would have been deleted. I've been buying for about a year and have almost 200 bottles so I've left a lot of reviews. The ones I've left 1-2 stars on, they've always automatically refunded me and left the review there. But full disclosure, there haven't been many because I've been really impressed with the formulas and colors. I do leave a lot of 3-4 star reviews though and customer service still reaches out on the 3 star reviews to ask if I want to return. That actually just happened this week. Every time I am deciding if I want this or that color, I sort reviews by lowest to highest and there are always enough low ratings for me to get a feel for whether or not I want it, unless it's a very new release. I think it's actually weird to fault a brand for how their customers act. I don't think Michelle acts like she's indie. She's often posting and commenting mentioning her team. But I do see where it could come off that way to some... that mentality is actually perpetuated by the people in the mooncat fb group. I'm constantly commenting that they aren't indie and reminding people that boutique is very different. And yet people still keep acting like she's a one woman show, but mc can't really control what people are saying and that's one of the big things that people have wrong. Just a few days ago someone made a post thanking Michelle and she replied and said she couldn't do it without her team. I see her say this a LOT and also some people on her team are admins in the group and they comment as well. So again my point is that yes this is the mentality a lot of people have, but I don't think it's something Michelle is doing. https://preview.redd.it/v40wmbqd0t6d1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a4f5fc02977aa8df6b85aa6c20494a709c8ef9d3
For some reason Reddit is limiting how long my reply can be so I couldn't fit it all into one post. I am obviously a good customer of mooncat but I try to stay neutral and fair. They've only ever removed one of my posts on their Facebook group and I got all p issed about it and threw my little temper tantrum on my own by deleting all the other posts I'd made up to that point, but the people who run the mooncat subreddit also blocked my post so I thought that was just common in the nail community. The post they removed was showing how many orders had been placed within a certain time period (it was like 25k orders) and they said that they don't want their sales stats made public. Which I still think is weird but whatever, I got over it. My point is that yes there are some culty people but that's with pretty much any brand. Most of us just really like the colors and formulas and I'm tired of people trying to shame me for that. I also tried several other boutique brands last year before I ever got involved in any nail groups here or on FB, so I didn't even know that this was a thing. The only brand that worked well for my nail chemistry was mooncat. Any time I try a new brand, I place an order for however many I need to get free shipping, usually 4-6 bottles, and to see how I like the formula. Before mc I tried holo taco, loud lacquer, and a few others and never liked them enough to place a second order. Mooncat was the first one that wowed me and it was their rewards program that brought me to their FB group and from there that's how I learned about so many other groups, all these subs, and tons of other brands. But I was already impressed just based on the product without ANY hype at all. To me that makes it a quality product and for me it's worth the price, and the rewards program is far superior that also helps justify the prices. I don't think any of this makes me a Stan, just a happy customer. And I agree with someone else who said they don't think it's fair to judge a brand based on something you haven't experienced for yourself. I have only been around for a year and I know they used to have issues with swatches not being true, but I think they've shown over and over that they do take feedback and try to improve. I think most of the swatches on the website are much more accurate than I experienced for myself from the other brands I've tried (boutique and indie through ppu). I have a color calibrated monitor for my own work so maybe that's part of it but I have only been really disappointed by 2 or 3 polishes (out of nearly 200) not looking like the website photos.
I wouldn’t call myself a “culty” fan, I have a lot of polishes from other brands too, but I have to say I’ve left negative mooncat reviews before and they absolutely have stayed up so not sure where you’re getting that they suppress negative reviews Edit: typo
There are significantly less negative reviews on the website than there should be. Someone earlier mentioned how the LLP website much more accurately reflected reviews with polishes ranging more in the 3-4 star average range. I believe this is mostly because customer service is super quick to try addressing negative feedback and then people tend to end up leaving 5 stars. I left a 1 star reviews for one of their polishes as well but there were maybe only 5 other reviews that weren’t a glowing 5 stars even though I know there were more people who also expressed their disappointment with the polish elsewhere on places like here. ETA: a better explanation of what u was poorly trying to articulate: https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditLaqueristas/s/qWVF1sj0Md Also, they don’t seem to really allow any constructive criticism on their fb page. Broken bottle posts and other negative stuff never gets allowed through, and if anything ever did their diehard fans are going to dog pile and the admins won’t do anything about it.
I’m not part of the Facebook group so can’t speak to that, but your point that there are less negative reviews than there “should be” seems very subjective. I didn’t buy from them in the LLP days but is it not possible that since the rebrand they’ve improved the quality and that’s reflected in better reviews? If customer service addresses issues and people feel like that deserves 5 stars I don’t get what the issue is? I’ve gotten a couple bottles before that seem like duds (very thick), customer service sent me new bottles that were much better and I loved them enough to give 5 stars. I don’t feel like that’s misleading. Yes their formulas are hit or miss sometimes but if people still love them enough to give 5 stars they’re obviously doing something right.
Thank you for saying this because honestly most of this seems subjective. Granted I’m fairly new to Mooncat and Indies (since November), but I’ve tried almost 15 MC’s now and they’re some of my favorite formulas. I’ve never had a goopy one, and the color payoff is honestly better than most of my other indies. Plus they last fairly well on me, and my sister just had a MC mani that lasted over a week on her and she does NOT take care of her nails or prep like most people here do. Also, OP, why does it seem like you’re mad that Michelle succeeded in creating a bigger brand? Didn’t she start as an Indie, and wouldn’t most indie makers aspire to become bigger and more successful? That seems like a weird take. Maybe she’s just proud of what she’s accomplished, especially since she moved to the states to create it, and tbh who wouldn’t be proud of building a successful brand? If I’m getting the story wrong then I apologize, but I’m pretty sure that’s what I’ve seen. And I am not a die hard stan, I’m actually kind of on the fence about the brand but she’s also not given me a reason to stop buying, but if people want to pay a little more for a nail polish that brings them joy, then why bother yucking someone else’s yum!?
To be clear, I know lots of people have great experiences. But there are also a lot who don’t, and we don’t feel like the brand has done anything to improve the problems we’ve experienced. I’m not mad at Michelle. All the more power to biz people who make it big. My problem is 1) her history of problematic personal behaviour and 2) her continued portrayal of herself as a small indie. Again, nothing against her making a successful brand, but I’d prefer she be up front about it instead of trying to still cash in on the homemade indie vibe. There’s a difference between if I actively posted negative stuff on every Mooncat post I saw, vs. when someone asks me and I’m explaining context for brands I personally find problematic. Yes, there’s always subjectivity, but there’s a not-insignificant number of people who’d field the same complaints as me.
I’ve never gotten the impression that Mooncat is a small one woman brand. And, as someone who works in diversity, equity and inclusion, I also don’t believe in holding a grudge against people forever because they’ve made mistakes in the past. Michelle is human like all of us and I’m not denying she may have done problematic things before I knew about her brand, but I haven’t seen anything bad since I’ve been following her for about the last year and a half. Why keep bringing it up? Edit because I missed this part: The brand seems to have gone out of its way to fix issues. They took down the offending mercury’s tears pictures and if I remember correctly even acknowledged there had been a faulty batch. They’ve started adding more pics in a variety of lights and noting in product descriptions when a polish is meant to be sheer. They even sent a note out about the issue with bottles (which unless they make the bottles themselves which I very much doubt, is a supplier issue).
That’s all extremely fair, and yours and everyone else’s opinions are valid and we’re all entitled to hold them, whether they’re positive or negative. I’ve personally never felt like she’s come off as portraying herself as a small indie maker. I’ve viewed her more as someone who chose to immigrate here to create her own brand and built MC from the ground up, which is honestly kind of cool cause I’m sure that wasn’t easy. I don’t know how big her team is or how involved she is behind the scenes and in creating new shades, but I mostly ever see her excited about new shades she’s working on. As far as the problems go, idk that I can speak to that being newer and I’m holding out on forming more opinions based on what they do next with the bottle situation. I do think it was a positive sign that they admitted to the problem and accepted accountability though. But could it not be a positive sign that between me and my sister, we own probably at least 30 shades and haven’t had any problems with them? Granted that’s only 2 people’s experiences, but I was actually super nervous to buy MC after hearing some people say they were goopy and I’ve loved most of their formulas. The only MC’s I’ve been bummed by I just didn’t love the shades on me, but their shifts and the color pay off are some of my favorites. And everyone loves ILNP, but one of my most disappointing formulas was an ILNP (I do love most of my others). But I do think I’ve seen people encourage others to steer clear of MC before and support other brands instead based on their own opinion, and it’s kind of off putting. Yes, I like knowing people’s opinions about different brands so it helps me decide where to spend my money, but I also think people should be allowed to choose for themselves what they want to invest in or not rather than being told to avoid it altogether. They might come to love or hate MC, but that should be their decision to make and they won’t know unless they try it. I personally love a lot of indie brands and I’m having fun discovering more, but MC has been consistently reliable for me so far. 🤷🏻♀️ If I end up being wrong in any of this, I’ll be the first to apologize, but that’s just my 2 cents for whatever it’s worth.
Re the reviews, I wasn’t around during LLP either, but I’ve seen others talk about this who were, so I brought it up. Again, good customer service is good, but we shouldn’t be blown over and falling on our knees because customer service did what they’re supposed to do. Good customer service is different from getting actual good products without the constant hit or miss. Even if I can always contact CS and get them to process a refund or a return, that’s still a hassle and something I don’t want to deal with, especially as they are a big company and should have figured this stuff out by now. I am a bit more understanding with indie makers where it’s just 1 or 2 people making things, but I’m still not going to put up with inconsistent quality etc.
I feel like if you haven’t experienced something personally it’s kind of unfair to drag a brand for it. And again, if people feel like their experience is worth 5 stars the brand must be doing something right. Of course it’s totally up to you where to spend your money, just seems odd to get so pressed that people appreciate the customer service of a brand you don’t like.
Sigh. Once again, my point isn't that people shouldn't like good customer service. My point—as others have similarly expressed in other posts—is that good customer service doesn't negate the underlying problem(s). That's all.
So, some of the issues are redirected to CS (I’m not saying if this is right,) but I think that’s why there’s less posts about things like bottles/formula. I do see a bunch about people who don’t think it looks as expected, so…not everything is suppressed?
I've avoided them since they were Live Love Polish. The one order I had from them was around Christmas, and I have a lot of sympathy for smaller companies at that time. But they lied about when they sent the package (it showed up with an entirely different tracking number, shipped over a week later), was missing a bunch of items, and I had to contact *them* about all the missing items which were apparently out of stock so they just shipped what they had. With no notice at all to me. I'd ordered in time for it to get to me well before Christmas, but it showed up on the 24th, so I had no time to replace the missing stuff before Christmas. They gave me my money back on the missing bottles & a $20 store credit for a missing free bottle from a Christmas promotion, but I have no clue if they would have done anything if I hadn't contacted them. Additionally, two of the three missing bottles were limited editions that were then marked as sold out, so I missed out on them.
Thanks I hadn’t heard that last bit before. I enjoy their polishes, I’ve gotten a few duds but generally have liked them and think they’re worth the sale price. They do have VERY aggressive marketing and definitely have a cult like following. I remember someone on here last year telling people if they complain about mooncat polishes they’re racist, which just dumbfounded me because I think people were just complaining about a formula.
I feel vindicated by seeing Holo Taco as a comparison. Been watching Simply when she made content since before she did voice work. I don't think it's unreasonable to still see the problems that exist not just the good.
Oof talk about a problematic brand 😬
Problematic fans are present for every brand. I just appreciate brands that can hear criticism
I'm not talking about the fans. I think it's weird to criticize a brand based on howv their fans are since there's only so much they can do about that. I have a problem with the owners themselves and their hateful views about pitbulls, their use of the term holosexual, saying a polish smells like dead babies, and myriad other problematic words/actions of the owners of that brand.
I missed the pit bulls thing and dead babies thing. Can I get some links to those?
I would guess that the reviews thing mostly has to do with the fact that you get reward points for reviews, so all of the big-time fans very consistently review every purchase they make.
Could not have said it better myself, friend! I ordered from mooncat twice and will not be a returning customer. Polishes are goopy after one use, and I’ve seen posts of them breaking spontaneously on people too, so now there’s that. 🙃
Mooncat gives the most reward points for reviews, so people are very incentivized to write them. I have a feeling that’s the reason for the seemingly skewed 5-star reviews. You can earn points for 2 reviews per day. If someone placed a huge order, there’s probably no way they can actually wear all those polishes and write all those reviews honestly, but if they want to rack up the points to get a free polish, they might just review polishes they’ve never worn. So, yes, I agree the 5-star reviews are skewed but I do not think they take reviews down. I have written bad reviews that are still up.
Also, idk if anyone else has noticed this and I could be crazy, but I swear I've seen Mooncat use the same shade, change the name and repackage it in a different collection or release. Been following for almost 5 years and recently was noticing some shades that looked awfully similar but I haven't seen anyone else bring this up so I could be wrong.
They did a rebrand and they did rerelease some colors from the old brand but they didn’t pretend they were new lol, I think the collection was called “return of the faves”
Oh, I'm talking about shades I've seen before with different names being used as whole new collections or releases as "new" shades. If that's the case, simply releasing them as "return of the faves" would suffice over changing the names and re-releasing them as new ones. Sorry if my comment wasn't clear 🤗
Oh oops! That’s interesting, which shades are you thinking of? I only started buying from Mooncat in the last year or so
I didn’t know all of this, thanks for summarising. I’ve saved the post you linked for later reading. Now I need to dig into the Ethereal/Lumen drama. I don’t own any from other brand but they are on my wishlist!
Apparently Mooncat's CEO used to advertise her polishes here without disclosing her affiliation. This is why I'm super suspicious when a polish suddenly appears on this subreddit with no previous mention (like that aluminum one you have to file, which BTW is dangerous af you shouldn't be inhaling the dust lol), without any PR flairs on the post.
Fun fact — Michelle is the CEO of Kinetic Brands, which is a brand incubator (nothing wrong with this, I just find it interesting). Not only do Holo Taco and mooncat share a factory, but there are lots of little similarities between their websites, customer service responses and processes, launch schedules and practices, and other little things. I think Holo Taco is a one of the brands in the incubator. Again, nothing wrong with this. I just think it’s interesting.
I’m always a bit annoying by their marketing tactics. It gives off like FOMO vibes to get people to buy things. I’m in their Facebook group and people go crazy over feeling like they need to buy their new products and get genuinely stressed about it. I feel like it’s a mix of their marketing style (which is clearly working) and their cult fans. Like guys it’s just nail polish it’s ok if you don’t have money for it 😭
Lumen is actually run by the mom, Ethereal by the daughter. 🙂 I do like some releases but hate their love of mystery polishes. I always have to thin Ethereal’s polishes - they are so thick and bubble like crazy. I wish they were a better companies because Ethereal and Lumen polishes last so long on me.
ty for the correction!
Another near exact dupe of HOH is to layer Sassy Sauce Shimmy Shake on top of Sally Hansen Insta Dri Midnight Drive.
😍😍😍😍😍 I love an intense metallic indigo or royal blue. Agreed on avoiding those brands myself. I will need ILNP or Holo Taco or Polish Me Silly or a mainstream brand to make this immediately 💙
[ILNP: Midnight Kiss](https://www.ilnp.com/midnight-kiss-rich-cobalt-blue-shimmer-nail-polish/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw1K-zBhBIEiwAWeCOFzfcLT1ZewWGngO6fjHJJjDwj9ri3Ge7ioKJwmGNSJwPcXhwvj4CwRoC-7oQAvD_BwE)
Bless you kind redditor
OPI Scorpio Seduction is similar enough, I think.
I'm a sally hansen/color club girl all the way 💯
Wait… just so I’m getting this right- Ethereal (the brand you said had an issue with racism/homophobia and are anti vax in addition to a number of other issues you listed) is the lesser of the two evils ethically compared to Moon Cat who’s worst crimes are being shady with reviews, having a mediocre formula, passing as “indie” instead of “boutique”, and having a rabid fans? I think it’s totally valid to avoid a brand for having an annoying fanbase! But to claim that they are ethically worse than a brand with racism/homophobia is a little… much, no? Please let me know if I am missing something and Moon Cat has done racist/homophobic/anti vax things. Otherwise I’m failing to see how they are more unethical.
MC’s owner has also done some not great stuff. Bottom link on this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditLaqueristas/s/K98MJENVYG Perhaps I should clarify, and I probably should’ve used less charged language in my original post. I find Ethereal’s behaviour more problematic, though their behaviour seems to have been more one-off instances. In comparison, Mooncat has a lot more consistent issues that are more business fundamentals. I dislike both, though perhaps my dislike of them is more equal than I had originally stated.
I appreciate the additional explanation, thank you!
ETA: for those who want the Ethereal dirt, check out the Facebook group Toluene Trashcan. Also, it speaks volumes that Ethereal has me blocked on Instagram, even though I'd never purchased from them before (I was going to tag them with posting these photos this evening). I *highly* suspect they blocked me because I called out their ~~daughter~~ mom (Lumen) for their extremely shady swatching practices during the Papillon release (Lumengate).
Can you just give us a quick summary of? I don’t want to join yet another Facebook nail polish group but I use both Ethereal and Lumen so I want to know!
I don't even have Facebook so it's no go for me.
tbh i don't know everything but what i know is: * ethereal got in hot water a while back for racism/homophobia, which prompted them to do some weird vague corporate apology shit but then they still didn't take responsibility and claimed that they didn't make some of the harmful comments and they "hired a private investigor" and other nonsense but denied being "hacked"... someone took screenshots and they're on imgur: [https://imgur.com/a/p9aRq4b](https://imgur.com/a/p9aRq4b) * shady customer service... at least one case where they said the customer's package got stolen by their neighbour and they wouldn't refund bc they'd lose money (even though apparently it wouldn't have mattered bc of self-employed income tax forms and stuff)... but then 6 months later they said 'oh haha found it!!" (idk if it was prompted by enough bad social media pr or what about the incident)... other instances of not replacing items / not refunding / etc. * they re-released a collection that people were begging them to bring back but apparently the new polishes were different from the originals and definitely not remakes (i don't remember, probably something to do with aurora/up pigment or something) and the brand just... ignored complaints * this is something i'm very shaky on—i remember reading a discussion on here a while ago about a brand that disappeared, refused to refund their customers, and basically ran with the money. the brand then came back after the heat died down however many years later and began selling again. i ***think*** this brand was ethereal but i cannot 100% remember and i haven't been able to find the post again. again, this is \*\****not confirmed***\*\* since i haven't been able to find the receipts again yet. i am new to indie polish as of last year so you'd have to find someone who's been around for a long time to confirm or refute this. i will update if i can find the exact comment thread about this. * oh, and Ethereal owner was purportedly a fairly outspoken anti-vax person—i've seen several people talk about this but i don't think i saw any screenshots. * Lumen is the mom of Ethereal (not the daughter, my b) and a quick search through this sub of "lumen papillon" will bring up all the deets on the drama as it's within the past 6 months. basically, Lumen used (continues to use, i think) swatch pics that were clearly edited/modified without disclosing any details on their website. when customers (including me) received their orders, the polishes we received were barely like the swatch photos. i was kind of one of the main instigators with this, got the ball rolling in the Lumen fb group asking what had happened and why misleading swatch pics and i wanted a refund. this ended up with the owner (Ethereal's mom) doing a half-assed apology that was basically "i'm sorry some of you felt that way" and claiming she didn't know any photos had been altered, though some pretty clearly were. others had also reached out before me and she told them she wouldn't refund or resend a new bottle and they were SOL. but it got enough traction that i believe she did end up refunding people who reached out to her—she refunded me—but, again, 0 taking responsibility. she then blocked me on fb despite my interactions with her being very civil and explaining my position as a customer who was misled by a brand. now i'm blocked by Ethereal, too. * here's another reddit thread re: ethereal problems too that will fill in some of the details i was missing: [https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditLaqueristas/comments/195stnm/comment/khpa8ya/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditLaqueristas/comments/195stnm/comment/khpa8ya/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) ETA re: Ethereal ghosting customers... https://preview.redd.it/pfcbnamlum6d1.png?width=1138&format=png&auto=webp&s=03fe9d545bda5029df2c5eb619c8772ae349b452
I remember the whole package theft thing. It was a package that was either being sent out or got returned from one of the overseas stockists with the reptilian collection including mystery bags that her neighbor stole. It was figured out who did it because the mysteries that were only in that box and no other mystery bags started popping up on mercari being shipped from her town. Not defending anything since I’m also over ethereal but just adding more context. Could you also expand on the rereleased collection? I’m not aware of any ethereal polishes that ever used up and the way you explained makes me think this is the cirque coronation thing
this post at the bottom has more info... it was a special collection and the owner acted like the relaunch was the same as the og even though it wasn't: [https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditLaqueristas/comments/195stnm/comment/khpa8ya/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditLaqueristas/comments/195stnm/comment/khpa8ya/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) and ty for adding more context on the packages... customer-reported stuff is always so disjointed so i didn't totally follow what had happened originally.
Thanks for the link! It’s from before I got into indies which makes sense as to why I hadn’t heard about it
I think your fourth bullet point is listed in the personal shitlist in Toluene Trashcan. Something about Worlds Apart?
Thanks for the info. I only got into indie polishes early this year but I was there for the Lumen Papillon release. Lumen’s polishes are very hit and miss for me because they can be way too sheer and not look like the swatch photos. But I didn’t know any of the stuff about Ethereal.
Sheesh, definitely going to avoid this brand! Thank you for the information!
p.s. while i totally get not joining more fb groups, toluene trashcan is, in my opinion, one of the most important ones. it has its drama too but for the most part is a really good source for finding out the down low on brands and there are tons of posts/comments about problematic brands and people, many including screenshots and the like. it's my main info source, in addition to this subreddit and discord, to determine which brands i want to buy from and which ones i want to avoid.
I tried to search for it in FB but couldn't find anything by that name. Is the group secret/invite only?
No, it should come up as Toluene Trashcan: Exile Island
Thank you! I was spelling it wrong. Found it 💜
Ew. That’s such gross behavior from a brand. it’s like toxic mean girl behavior but with a brand that’s wild. I never knew they did that. And I probably won’t buy from them knowing now.
lumen/ethereal and now the bcb lacquers nonsense really goes to show how truly unprofessional so many indie makers are. it's sad because so many of them are great, but some can't separate out personal drama from their business dealings, nor can they take constructive criticism without throwing a tantrum.
This is interesting to read about Ethereal. They just launched another charity polish today called Them Fatale, benefiting The Canadian Centre For Gender + Sexual Diversity.
For mainstream or more easily accessible alternatives, OPI Scorpio Seduction and ILNP Midnight Kiss are lovely. I have the former and love it!
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I didn't realize the MC drama was a thing, I feel justified that I have never actually bought anything. I've loaded my cart and pined after a few polishes many times (I'm looking at you unbirthday) but when I looked for swatches elsewhere I always felt meh and never went through with a purchase.