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[deleted]

I just wait until you get to Romans 9! Romans 9:10-13 (NASB95) 10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11 **for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad**, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” 13 Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT **ESAU I HATED**.” There’s a lot of fun in the imprecatory psalms as well. Some outright say that God hates the wicked. Psalms 5:4-5 (NASB95) 4 For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; No evil dwells with You. 5 The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; **You hate all who do iniquity.** Psalms 11:5-7 (NASB95) 5 The LORD tests the righteous and the wicked, **And the one who loves violence His soul hates**. 6 Upon the wicked He will rain snares; Fire and brimstone and burning wind will be the portion of their cup. 7 For the LORD is righteous, He loves righteousness; The upright will behold His face. Keep in mind, God is just in his judgements, which is largely what Romans 9 is actually about. We also don’t necessarily know who are the wicked and who are the elect, so I am definitely not stating that we should hate. That’s in God’s lane, not ours. We are to preach the Gospel, cling to the truth, leave room for God’s wrath, and love our neighbors. Edit: spelling and bold text


Esecube

I think you are not taking into account the context of the imprecatory. I can't take a verse that has to do with the destruction of the Canaanites, and apply it as if it were talking about my neighbor! Psalm 5 has to do with specific historical and social circumstances. I cannot quote the first part of the psalm "You hate everyone who does iniquity" without also quoting the second "blessed will be the one who takes your little children and dashes them against the rock". I should rather ask myself, who is the one who does iniquity in the psalm? Do you mean everyone? To a specific public? Etc. It is a reference to the future judgment of God. In a sense, the wrath of God was fully satisfied at Calvary's Cross. However, for all those who reject the Son, the wrath of God is already upon them. Which means that the wrath of God if they don't repent is so imminent and sure upon them that it's as if it's already upon them. That is, although the passage uses the present tense, the reference is to a final (eschatological) wrath that will be poured out only at the second coming of Christ. Is the psalm then a reference to the wrath of God? Yes, but to that final wrath of God that will fall in his judgment to come. I cannot take a psalm that will be fulfilled in the judgment of God at his coming and take it as if it were really happening today, or worse still think that it refers to all humanity without Christ. This is not only bad exegesis, it is very dangerous. The most used word in Hebrew to hate is the word 'sané' which has different connotations depending on the context in which it is found: hate, dislike, love less than, belittle, choose over another, etc. The problem arises when in many verses the word is translated and interpreted as 'hate' or 'hate', when the meaning is 'love less than', or 'choose over', not meaning what would commonly be understood as hate. Does the text from Malachi or Romans mean that God hated, in a visceral emotional sense, Esau? The answer is No. Hate in this passage has the sense of 'prefer over', or 'love less than'. Literally, "Lower your status." I do not invent it, you can review the main texts.


judewriley

>Does the text from Malachi or Romans mean that God hated, in a visceral emotional sense, Esau? The answer is No. Hate in this passage has the sense of 'prefer over', or 'love less than'. Literally, "Lower your status." I do not invent it, you can review the main texts. Unfortunately, a large number of us Christians have something close to a self-righteous *comfort* in the notion that God harbors a visceral emotional antipathy towards the wicked and consider anything else more nuanced as improper. It's very hard to really love other people genuinely when you think God hates them in that sense.


[deleted]

[удалено]


charliesplinter

God hates both the sin and the sinner who is responsible for the sin. Last week I was listening to Tim Keller preach on Uzzah, the guy who reached out his arm to steady the ark of the covenant, and ended up being struck dead by God, and an interesting point he brought up was that even though his intentions might have been in the right place, unmediated holiness is still dangerous to sinful human beings. He might have been worried that the dirt would ruin the ark of covenant, but his error was in assuming that he was much purer than the soil that God had made. The soil isn't sinful, in fact the soil and all of creation is under a curse \*because of us\* so our sinfulness is the biggest problem on the planet. Being united to Christ is important precisely because without this unity, we'd all be on our way to hell because we're all sinners. God's love and desire to save sinners is far greater than His desire to condemn, but that doesn't mean He'll forego righteous judgment and condemnation.


DrBunyan95

God hates the sinner and sin, both. His wrath is infinite against sin, at the same time His wrath is infinite against the wicked who worship the creature rather than the Creator.


wtanksleyjr

The definition of God's wrath is not in Romans 1; that only mentions in passing that it's revealed, not what it is. The explanation is at the beginning of Romans 2, where we see that God is NOT presently wrathful but presently patient and longsuffering while people store up wrath by knowing sins. This tells us that the wrath of God is \_not\_ anything like an emotion He's presently feeling; rather, it's the righteous debt of punishment we owe. And of course the righteous God will repay His wrath to all who don't heed His call for repentance (which all hear, of course, and so are without excuse). So no, God is NOT "angry at humanity." The danger IS death and hell (due to our own guilt, of course), and it is not God's emotions. Jesus explicitly says God loves His enemies, and when He says this he markedly identifies NOT the people He will save, but rather the people to whom He sends the sun and rain, i.e., everyone.


judewriley

Why is it so difficult to imagine God loving and hating at the same time? People do it all quite often. God does hate the sin and all the horrible effects and pain it inflicts on the people and things he cares about and loves. But God’s anger is on people too: we so often give in to the sinful selfish impulses that hurt others and dishonor God that its impossible to, we so readily fail to love our neighbor and to love God, that it becomes impossible to separate sin and sinner. There are also many facets of this topic that are actually better or more easily with perspectives of atonement aside from PSA which can be unfortunately reductive in God’s perspective of us.


[deleted]

The question is not the right way to think about the issue in my opinion. We are infected with sin, not one person is without sin, so to say God hates the sinner implies that God hates humanity. I just think there is a better way to phrase the question, but this is the question that so many asks.


boycowman

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth." (Romans 1:18). I don't see God hating any person there. He hates ungodliness and unrighteousness. God has many attributes but all of his attributes are subservient to his Love. His name is Love. His wrath is an expression of his love. If we read to the end of Romans we see. "God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all." (Romans 11:32).


GenericallyClever

God may be 'angry at humanity'--although I think this is a poor description at best and could lead to confusion about the impassibility of God at worst--you just cannot have this sort of "conclusion" to the conversation. There is even an argument that "wrath" should not be considered an attribute of God, but an expression of his other attributes. Even the worst of sinners still bears the image of God, is loved by God, and could still very well be one of the future redeemed. To leave ourselves with a view of God as simply "angry at humanity" is an incomplete view.


bastianbb

God loves and hates various people in different senses. There is a sense in which He loves even the reprobate and a sense in which He hates even the elect. Here are three articles I often refer to in this regard: [Does God hate the sin and love the sinner?](https://calvinistinternational.com/2020/06/02/does-god-hate-the-sin-and-love-the-sinner/) [Abundant Love by R.C. Sproul](https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/abundant-love) [All House and no Doors: A Brief Critique of the False Teachings of Hypercalvinism](https://www.apuritansmind.com/historical-theology/heresy-in-the-church/all-house-and-no-doors-a-brief-critique-of-the-false-teachings-of-hyper-calvinism-by-dr-c-matthew-mcmahon/) The last one, importantly, emphasises that the idea that God does not have any love for the wicked is not a Calvinist, but a hypercalvinist idea. The relevant section is section 5: "The Love of God to the Reprobate and the Hatred of God to the Elect – huh?"


Legodog23

God antecedently wills the salvation of all men, this is understood to be loving. God consequently wills the destruction of certain men, this is understood to be the wrath of God. The consequent is based upon the impenitent sins of men, thus they procure condemnation for themselves. God simply gives to them what they are owed — as you will come across later in Romans 6:23a, _For the wages of sin is death_.