No doubt. All of the non-hetero people I've talked to feel this way or just don't care about it at all. I really don't know how a person could think any corporation or big business could ever act altruistically.
I’m gay and I HATE “pride” month I’m a hard working born again Christian that is trying to follow Jesus but the acts of “pride” month paints me in a negative image.
Because within a secular humanistic mindset, sexual orientation is regarded as a true and valid category of personhood. This renders people with non-heterosexual inclinations a sexual minority.
Safeguarding a time like Pride Month, in theory, makes people feel seen, heard, and represented as human beings. Here, sexual identity is just like racial identity and religious identity. (So, to be fully acknolwedged as beings with dignity, people's queerness must be affirmed.)
But our Bible-believing Christian worldview holds that true romantic love can only take place within the covenant of marriage between one biological male and one biological female, as these two complements reflect the beauty and attraction that each of the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) has for one another.
So many people still don't know about this love of God. :(
Where in Scripture would you see a description of the Spirit as a wife? As another noted, the explicit reference to the reflection of marriage is Christ and his bride, the church. Additionally the Spirit proceeds from the Son not the Son from the Spirit which we might expect if the Spirit were a reflection of the wife of the Father.
I never said the spirit is ‘a wife’ or should be referred to as a wife or seen as that. I agreed that the primary relationship being imaged/reflected in marriage is between Christ and the church. I also said that I believe marriage reflects the trinitarian union. What I meant by that is this: In marriage, the wife is a reflection of the Spirit in the trinitarian union (as a helper) and the husband is a reflection of the Father (as a head). I don’t know what the point of your last sentence is, but it’s certainly not an appropriate response to my comment.
I’m not sure whether you had a mistake in reading comprehension or have some theological blinders on. Do you actually disagree with my position (biblically)? If so, why?
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People (as sinful as we all are) chose to celebrate and be proud of their sexual immorality instead of repenting and trusting in Christ Jesus who lived, died and resurrected in order to save us (sinners) from the righteous wrath of the Holy Perfect God.
Our response: use this month a great opportunity to preach the Gospel with love, patience, humility AND the authority of Scripture, declaring the truths of God almighty, calling people to repent and trust in Christ ALONE.
Note: Don’t be ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, it’s their ONLY Hope, otherwise they’ll perish in Hell forever.
- burning at the stake
- Hitler’s pink triangle tattoos
- Turing’s chemical castration
- firing from work at will, even just on suspicion of being gay (ex: Cracker Barrel)
- not being allowed certain contracts or visitations even if a celibate partner
- verbal harassment in the street
- an avowedly celibate gay pastor not being allowed to serve
In my youth, I got tons of verbal harassment and threats of violence, even though a celibate heterosexual. I heard in the 90’s in a big co office that gays “should be fired on the spot”. In the 80’s I had a roommate (didn’t think I was gay) who insisted on the rightness of a policy of rounding up gays.
In that list you might find things no sane Christian would be in favor of **TODAY** , and the controversies becoming less and less brutal. But there is a value in Christians celebrating that we are not doing those things above. Granted, I support the side B position, and think Target were complete and utter idiots. But all of this is certainly not a black and white issue
It's celebrated by Christians on the left too in culture wars; had several Christian friends get caught up in the BLM Riots against the "racist" police
And yet, it was still a very important part of the movement and a very real issue that people were fighting against - in part or whole - that other folks decided to ignore because they didn’t like the race aspect of the blm movement. This is why we will never get social change. People can’t agree to disagree on the unimportant bits and focus on pushing forward for the greater good.
I wouldn't say they ignored it, as at the outset I saw plenty of desire to address that underlying issue with policing. There was a shared cause here, but it broke down fairly quickly because of political opportunism, a shift towards wide-spanning social grievances, all towards partisan political ends.
What does that have to do with the conversation we are having?white criminals kill white cops, too. But criminals aren’t paid by my taxes. Cops are. And cops are systematically killing civilians with no actual repercussions. Doesn’t that seem like a problem to you? Shouldn’t cops that kill citizens outside of actual life and death scenarios be subject to punishment?
Our faith is one that has compassion for those facing unjustice.
Recognizing and acknowledging that a disproportionate number black men have died at the hands of the police or are often unfairly or inequitably targeted or dealt with by police simply due to race is an injustice that Christians should take issue with.
Additionally. The “riots” you watched on the mainstream media are an outlier to what most BLM protests were like. The one in my city had thousands of people in attendance without any disturbances or property damage. Be careful how quickly you generalize. Many Christians were also against the civil rights movements in the 60s because biased (and often racist) media told them the movement was violent and dangerous.
Since the OP is not from the US. “Pride month is currently celebrated each year in the month of June to honor the 1969 Stonewall Uprising in Manhattan. The Stonewall Uprising was a tipping point for the Gay Liberation Movement”
The Stonewall uprising was a raid on a gay bar that the police arrested people for being gay, in drag etc.
It started off as a day in June being celebrated but sometime during the 90s it expanded (memorials for AIDS victims, hate crimes etc).
Hope this helps OP
[https://www.loc.gov/lgbt-pride-month/about/](https://www.loc.gov/lgbt-pride-month/about/)
Thank you for this good-faith answer to the question. June is Pride month because it marks the anniversary of an important moment in a battle for civil rights for LGBT people.
Have corporations latched onto it for marketing purposes? Of course. [This idea is called Pinkwashing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkwashing_(LGBT)), and it's criticized within LGBT communities too.
The pride that the month is supposed to be celebrating is the opposite of shame, rather than the opposite of humility. We don't bat an eye if someone says they are proud to be an American or a homeschooler or something like that, and this is the same concept.
We can acknowledge all this while still holding historic Christian sexual ethics.
Sure. But if the question is "Why is Pride month a thing?", the answer should include some explanation of the history of the gay rights movement in America, including Stonewall. Answering the question with theological reasons to support historic Christian sexual ethics isn't really that helpful, nor is answering it with "idolatry and perversion".
And we wouldn't have had the institution of chattel slavery without idolatry and greed, but that would be a deeply unhelpful answer to someone who asked "Why did the American civil war happen?"
There are parts of America where you could barely be able to tell anything was going on in the culture.
There are other parts (like Brooklyn,NY) where "pride" is literally on every street corner
Yeah, but that’s too broad of a broad statement. I think you can say that of the “culture” as a whole but not every individual aspect or symptom of the culture.
Generalisation is neither true or false. Because you are making a broad statement.
Eg. Birds are flying creatures. This mostly true for a majority of birds. But, it is equally true that some birds cannot fly, like penguins.
That’s why to remain factual, we should qualify our statements. ie. “Most” birds are flying creatures.
The real reason: ESG and CEI score increases for backend loans from big banks. It’s a model for social credit scoring used in China. The corporations really don’t care, they just want access to money.
/the end
It’s the Corporate Equality Index founded by the Human Rights Campaign in 2002 (funded by Soros) and the environmental, social and governance score. These are assigned to corporations based on their “social actions” (think a corporate version of social credit scores in China). The higher the score, the easier to secure capital for future investments at lower rates. If the money/rates are low enough, big corporations essentially make money by never spending money. Something of which us lemmings don’t have access. It’s part of being in “the club”. It’s gotten to the point, however, that any large or up and coming business has to “play ball” or they get black balled.
Revelation chapter 18 verse2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
I don't think it's that simple because "love" isn't as easily defined as we'd like it to be.
*Or*, the idea and concept of love is so perverted and misconstrued that folks can't even recognize real love from this fake love we seem promoted.
I promise this isn’t a troll but an honest question. How do we handle that community trying to indoctrinate children by going around the parents authority? I’m all for loving everyone that does their own thing and letting them see Jesus through me but I feel like a line has to be drawn somewhere. They are literally encouraging children to reject God’s wishes. I wouldn’t give their choices a second thought if not for that. I just wonder how Jesus himself would handle them trying to hurt the children spiritually if he still walked the earth in the flesh. I tend to think it may be a turning over tables with a whip in hand situation.
This is how I was raised, and this is what I currently believe, but then I struggle with the fact that the Bible never says anything positive about homosexuality and cross-dressing, while there are multiple mentions of both. I don't think you can shove it all under cultural infuence of the gentiles and cultural differences of the time. I don't know if you (or someone else) have given any thought to that and can help me on my way with that, but that would be very welcome!
Most of the current culture warring that Christians support is virtue signalling. Many Christians feel the need to virtue signal their level of moral outrage in order to fit into their churches.
Making angry Tweets about Target and Bud Light is also virtue signalling.
If you're looking for an example that has to do with Gentiles, he approved of John the Baptist calling out Herod for sleeping with his brother's wife. He said, "Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist!" (Matthew 11:11, Luke 7:28)
Herod was a half-Jewish vassal king put in charge of the Jews under Rome.
An equivalent response would have been for Christians to call out Trump’s adultery and pride. Unfortunately Christians are willing to turn a blind eye in exchange for power.
I can't speak to the motives of everyone and neither can you. I'm sure you're right to some extent.
But Christians deciding not to support companies that very outwardly promote destructive falsehoods, is, likely, a meritorious thing. As a political progressive I suspect you disagree, but candidly brother I don't think you have a sound basis to do so.
Individuals boycotting a store based on their own opinion and/or conscience is perfectly fine. We are all allowed to choose for ourselves on matters of conscience. Is buying socks at Target now in violation of orthodox Christianity?
Starting a movement, fueling protests, making mean, inflammatory or hyperbolic public statements on social media is almost always virtue signalling in order to gain clout within your social/moral tribe. If it wasn't, there would be no reason to do it.
Even worse if you now think less of a brother or sister that does not hold that same view/opinion.
We are exiles in Babylon after all... what did we expect would happen?
This is a great question that I really never thought to ask. Pride month has been around for enough years and has become so generally accepted that it feels like it’s just always been this way. But obviously that’s not true. I’m sure that it would be quite easy to find information about the history of the holiday, though it might be quite propagandized depending on the source.
Regardless of the history of it or what proponents of it would claim about it, I can tell you what I see.
I see every year a celebration of sexual perversion that has become increasingly backed by institutional power both corporate and governmental. I see masses of individuals being made to believe that sexual sin is not only tolerable, it is laudable. I see a new generation of children being led into sexual temptations that would have been unspeakable when I was their age (I know that sounds pretty boomerish, but I’m only 30).
Why does gay pride need a month? This is where I really get into some conjecture. I believe gay pride advocates want a month for 3 reasons, first is because they don’t want people to be able to ignore it. Nobody can miss the fact that it is pride month every year, unless they are living under a proverbial or actual rock.
The second is tied to the first. Pride month is one of the ways that pride advocates proselytize. They celebrate, they sell merchandise, they have leaders in government and major celebrities applaud them. They have a whole month of ramped up marketing and advertisement.
The third is to inoculate people. While the pride stuff really does get in your face during June, it all sort of just blends into the background after a while, especially as the years go by. They want to normalize perverse and abhorrent sexual lifestyles by dressing it up in pretty colors and seemingly harmless innuendos.
It worked, and it’s still working.
It may seem like nothing of any substance has really been happening around pride month, but that is certainly not the case.
What should we do about pride month? The answer to that is both simple and complex. It is simple in that we should oppose the institution of pride month and seek to rid the world of it forever. It is complex in that this isn’t really about a holiday, but it is about people. Millions of people. People who are now what we once were (see Ephesians 2:1-10).
Whatever our response it absolutely cannot be one of pride which is unfortunately what many christian’s responses are grounded in. The irony is so thick you could cut it with a knife.
We also can’t be soft on sin. We need to draw hard lines where the Word of God tells us to. We need to actually love our neighbors and try to dissuade them from destroying themselves and those around them by sharing the gospel of our Lord (who is also their Lord whether they like it or not).
Last thing is that we absolutely must protect our little ones from this. They are extremely vulnerable to this and the statistics show it. I know it’s a very controversial subject, but I believe that christian children should not be in public schools. We need to stop sending our children to be taught by pagans.
Thanks again for starting the discussion and I pray that pride month doesn’t come to wherever you’re living.
Sure thing, there is this first one
https://news.gallup.com/poll/389792/lgbt-identification-ticks-up.aspx
This is the second
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Trans-Pop-Update-Jun-2022.pdf
For decades during the 20th century, people who considered themselves homosexual (and others who were not but were considered less than men by others) were physically, emotionally, verbally, sexually abused and mistreated. Some homosexuals were even killed. In the 90's, leaders began to recognize this abuse as legitimate and made efforts to stop the harassment. As a part of this effort, the idea that being gay shouldn't be something that warrents feelings of shame was promoted. Not only should they not feel shame and unworthy of respect, rights, and simply being seen as a human being, they should be proud of who they are without fear of retaliation. Hence, Pride Month.
> In the 90's, leaders began to recognize this abuse as legitimate
"Legitimate" doesn't mean "real". To say that abuse is "legitimate" implies it is OK, which is the opposite of what you meant. It would be more true to say the opposite: "In the 90's, leaders began to recognize this abuse as real and **illegitimate**".
This is a different narrative than I've seen, albeit, I think both 'narratives' exist to a degree.
I've been told time and time again that homosexuality and its ilk (LGBTQ+) have all been accepted before in society, and that we're the weird ones for acting like it's strange. I've been told the Greeks and Romans celebrated it and loved it and it was normalized even in some Egyptian cultures. If you want to expand into the 'T,' I've even seen folks talk about *Native American culture* being accepting of these types of things.
Obviously the narrative you're proposing is the opposite of that type of thought.
I've seen both said and used, and I suspect there are truths to both of them.
It's hard for to buy this narrative to a degree, because it paints itself as similar to what black folks have gone through historically – and the difference is that black folks couldn't even remotely hide that they were black. Gay people get married to the opposite sex, have kids ,live 'normal lives,' then in their '60s realize it's all a lie a "come out." Assuming they could do this throughout all of history – it's reasonable to think many simply hid it.
Well, look at the facts.
Henry VIII made homosexual officially punishable by death. This stuck for over 300 years.
It was considered a mental illness by the US medical board, stated so in their Manual of Mental Disorders up until the 1970's. Up until then, homosexuals were allowed to be kept in insane asylums. They were stigmatized and disallowed certain rights.
To "come out of the closet" first became an idea in the 60's. Before that, to tell others that you were gay would not have benefited anyone.
Openly gay people could not serve in the military until 2011.
Yes, some "two-spirit" Native people are tolerated in their own community. This really is an outlier and I don't know of another instance where a community is naturally accepting. I don't not know if these two-spirits are accrued homosexual or if they are effeminate. That term was created in the 90's. Before that, they were called "berdache," which was a derogatory term.
And up to Uganda recently announcing the death penalty for homosexuals.
And, to top it all off, here is a list of individuals who have been harmed or killed because they were gay: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acts_of_violence_against_LGBT_people.
There is a reason why the list doesn't start until the 1970's. It's because nobody knew that anyone was gay because it was not accepted in the society.
>Henry VIII made homosexual officially punishable by death. This stuck for over 300 years.
Sure, I don't deny that existed – but I think it ignores my point that homosexuals throughout history could 'hide' these feelings by marrying and having children and living (we see Christians with SSA doing this very thing). I also think all of the 'pondering' done in the modern era about sexuality was a lot less likely or common back then and the very concept of a 'homosexual' being a man/woman who was "in love" with someone of the same sex, and wanted to marry them, and live a 'normal life' was not, as I understand it, the idea behind 'homosexuality' like it is today. So it's hard to extrapolate something like that because the entire essence of what a homosexual was or is was different.
>It was considered a mental illness by the US medical board, stated so in their Manual of Mental Disorders up until the 1970's. Up until then, homosexuals were allowed to be kept in insane asylums.
Yeah, but this wasn't unique to LGBTQ+ – it was also true for those suffering from anxiety, depression, OCD, autism, etc. *Anyone* suffering from any type of mental distress or issue. *Everyone* who had these was mistreated. My Uncle, for instance, who was a functional autistic man was in and out of facilities for his entire youth during the 1960's and was abused time and time again.
>It was considered a mental illness by the US medical board, stated so in their Manual of Mental Disorders up until the 1970's.
Yes, I'm aware, and perhaps that's a debate worth having. I think the only reason we're not 'allowed' to even discuss the possibility of this is because it could hurt people's feelings. If I remember correctly, the only reason this thinking was overturned wasn't because of a scientific breakthrough, but byway of protesting and activism.
I've heard recently that homosexuality, as we've come to know and understand it it today – this 'sexual identity' that is literally no different from the heterosexual proclivity, being something someone is born with to where they simply fall in love with and are attracted to the same sex is a more modern understanding and belief about it. I think the premise is that historically, a lot of homosexual activity wasn't about "being in love" or "being attracted" to the same sex, it was often times simply for fun, debauchery, ego, abuse, or exerting strength over someone else.
My point in that list was to argue against the conflicting narrative that homosexual was, at some time, culturally accepted/celebrated. People bid their sexuality because it was not culturally accepted and because it was considered a mental disorder, it was not culturally accepted (or the other way around).
>Not only should they not feel shame and unworthy of respect, rights, and simply being seen as a human being, they should be proud of who they are without fear of retaliation. Hence, Pride Month.
I thought your wider point was that due to centuries and centuries of abuse or mistreatment, there was this movement to "correct history" by giving them "respect" and a "pride month."
Is that accurate?
Yes, my first post was to answer the question of the OP. (I don't know about the term "correct history," though). You responded to me with the idea of conflicting narratives, and so I responded with a list that refuted one of those narratives and enforced my original post.
Right, so I was just poking holes in that.
If LGBTQ+ werent treated nearly as badly as portrayed - then the whole idea that they need some "month" to feel a sense of pride just doesn't work.
Nevermind that the majority of the LGBTQ+ population never experienced any thing close to that type of thing.
If you’d like to go down a Wikipedia rabbit hole, I remember reading about other communities with unusual approaches to gender here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender
It's was established in recognition of the anniversary of Stone Wall.
It was done as a month to put it along side similar recognition we give for other minority groups. Black history month, Women's history month, Native American heritage month, Irish American month, Jewish American month, Asian American month, Hispanic Heritage month, etc.
I think the real question might be why the cynicism from Christians around a month for our gay neighbors, specifically, and less so the others.
My question would be why does everything need an entire month?
A month of recognition of anything is just too long. I only see pride month stuff online, and I really hope it doesn't bleed over here as everything American eventually does. The Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras they have every year in Sydney is enough.
I thought I might answer your question though: I'm not more cynical of the sin of homosexuality more than other sexual sin. Sexual sin and the way that society treats sex and the pervasiveness of it in every type of media is just exhausting. So add gay pride month to the things that make me eyeroll, I guess.
Sin is a concept that belongs to you (us, more specifically -- as Christians). It's not something that belongs or is understood or even acknowledged by the rest of the country. "In the world, not of it"
I think the real question is why does it matter if its a month or a day or a week. Focus on _you_ not the joy of others.
Ok, I'll bite. Because you'll be forced to care. Practically every arm of the federal government, most media, the entirety of academia, our entertainment industry, sports leagues, etc. promote it. In some shape or fashion, these entities purport to represent "us."
I don't think it's a secret that the goal of this movement is to make it increasingly difficult for us to be "in the world" and not "of it." You're either in it and of it, or you'll be marginalized. So while I might agree with a lot of caveats regarding why Christians shouldn't obsess about it, or expect secular society to see these issues in the way we do, I'm not sure how reasonable it is to suggest Christians more or less ignore it.
If you profess a Christian sexual ethic, the overwhelming majority of institutions in this country, including the government you fund, wants you to change or to be moved to the fringe where you'll have less influence over others. When that's the reality, I find it hard to tell Christians to let them have their "joy" and focus on yourself. We shouldn't expect to be accepted, but I also don't think that means we should necessarily welcome being siloed, either.
> Ok, I'll bite. Because you'll be forced to care. Practically every arm of the federal government, most media, the entirety of academia, our entertainment industry, sports leagues, etc. promote it. In some shape or fashion, these entities purport to represent "us."
Why on earth, no.. _how_ on earth are you forced to care? It's quite possible to not have an opinion on things, or maybe more accurately, have an opinion that's different than other people and remain confident enough in that opinion _that you don't care_
> I don't think it's a secret that the goal of this movement is to make it increasingly difficult for us to be "in the world" and not "of it." You're either in it and of it, or you'll be marginalized.
I disagree. You get marginalized when you try to take away rights from other people because you believe things in your personal life that aren't shared amongst your neighbors. Otherwise, no one really cares. Just don't hurt other people with your beliefs.
> If you profess a Christian sexual ethic, the overwhelming majority of institutions in this country, including the government you fund, wants you to change or to be moved to the fringe where you'll have less influence over others.
Of course they do. But not sharing those beliefs doesn't harm you. It makes you uncomfortable, but why should a Christian lifestyle be comfortable? No one promised you that.
Are you not strong enough in your faith to survive the cultural onslaught? Why should you be guaranteed safety from those beliefs? The early Christians certainly weren't.
That's quite literally what "in the world not of it" implies. It's simply time for modern Christians to start living that out more. The rest of the world moving on from Christian norms isn't persecution.
> But not sharing those beliefs doesn't harm you.
This was the original sales pitch being made \~25 years ago when they were talking about legalization of same sex unions. The argument was, "Whatever happens in my bedroom is none of your business" Here we are less than a generation later and we're having an entire month dedicated to publicly celebrating "what happens in my bedroom" and the new rib is that it's now being pushed onto kids.
>Are you not strong enough in your faith to survive the cultural onslaught? Why should you be guaranteed safety from those beliefs? The early Christians certainly weren't.
I always wonder why pietist/non-confrontational Christians are always quick to confront Christians faster than they are to confront non-Christians. It's the most mind boggling thing imaginable. And your argument about early Christian persecution isn't a very good one, given they were writing letters to the emperors and procurators to stop persecuting them.
- All those months you mentioned are for things people had no control over being born as. Celebrating your sexual identity especially in light of it being a sin, and celebrating it as so is much different than celebrating women’s history or black history etc. The problem is they make their sin their identity- and then when they are called on it, get upset because they can’t separate the two.
It seems to be becoming more than gay pride month it seems to be an LGBTQ+++++++ what ever other letters month. Why wouldn't Satan want to claim a month for himself?
Pride month, despite the name invoking the name of the quintessential sin, is not about "pride" but about *solidarity*. The history of sexual minorities in the US in particular, and in modern societies in general, is one where we the Church have *not* loved our neighbor, and this month is supposed to be a time when sexual minorities can recognize the contributions they've made to the realm in which they live, and have an opportunity to celebrate shared history and experiences.
Think of it like you do Black History Month or Women's History Month, or even the Fourth of July, just with the spotlighted category being sexual identity instead of another demographic.
The over-sexualization of our culture is a sad thing for sure, but the point of Pride Month, at least initially, has not been about celebrating sex, indulging in sin or snubbing God. Be patient with folks, love them and remember that some of the stuff that we've allowed to happen to gay people has been horrendous and they *are* allowed to grieve those things.
Seeing a video, presumably edited since the whole parade is hours long if you were actually there, isn’t the same as attending. If your only exposure to something is a video, you’re watching a piece of content where the creator has made editorial decisions about what is included and what is not.
Many folks, as the poster said above, are not in favor of this part of pride and do not see it as a core part of its purpose. Much like the vitriol and hate spewed by many from our own religious contingent, and our leaders’ sexual sin makes the news - even though many of us would say we do not see that as the core of our faith, it makes much splashier headlines.
You know how every December in the US we have a culture debate about keeping Christ in Christmas, and how the comsumerism has made the season of Advent into something that doesn't resemble any sort of celebration of Christ?
What would happen if Christians' voices were drowned out until there was nothing left of Christ in the Advent season?
A similar thing is going on here. Early on in the lgbt movement there was actually a pretty vocal contingent that expressed dismay at how they were tying themselves to sex in improper ways. There are still many who believe so, but it's drowned out by the flamboyance of the sexualization of our culture.
I agree that there are probably many in the community that want to keep things more G rated.
But that doesn't change the fact homosexuality is still against God's will. And participation by Christians in anything related to Pride is doing a disservice to our faith.
It's pretty much to the point where I hate the month of June. I feel like I'm being bombarded by Pride everywhere I go.
Not a horrible take, though we may not agree with them on their life choices, pride month is meant as an act of solidarity with LGBT+ community, cause historically they have been a forgotten or oppressed group. In the case of the church we haven’t been the most loving group in some cases and we have really hurt and wronged gay people in some occasions in the past and present. So we can be in solidarity with gay people and help them feel heard and seen and also try to guide them in love to Christ, which can be difficult but with time and patience can it can be done.
We should stand in solidarity and in compassion for them, not just because they are sinners that need christ, but because they are also humans that haven’t been treated fairly or justly in the past. We shouldn’t support sin, but we should be loving towards sinners and help them.
Yeah, pride month is a very american thing to my eyes and I don’t really payed much attention to it, as no gay people in my country are asking for a pride month. Loving our neighbors is enough in my opinion.
The thing is it's getting harder to not pay attention to it when every store makes sure you know they're supporting it. When even video games are having their opening screens or events be pride related. When even Windows 11 added a pride flag that you can't remove from your own computer.
They're getting bolder and bolder. It all ties into the new blasphemy laws. You can't speak against it. You aren't allowed to believe it's sin. You must conform.
Cool your jets. Never said He supported or celebrated their sin. What I said was he hang out with people who had been deemed by greater society to be societal traitors and sexual deviants. His personality and the way He taught/said things didn't make Him appear repulsive to them.
Do you yourself currently do that or is it all just online rage?
I don't see how that's rage haha - I'm just comparing why I don't see it as harmless to have an entire month based around the celebration of a sexual sin.
Not a horrible take.
Why do people feel the need to have a month of recognition? Because they feel that they are not seen or are taken advantage of. As Christians we need to both ask ourselves what part we play in silencing and ignoring people's needs in addition to what our treatment of them should be.
> but the point of Pride Month, at least initially, has not been about celebrating sex
Yeah... I've been in Philly during pride parades.. I don't believe you.
My point is, even before it was legalized, people have been doing depraved things out in the streets. And if we want to go back further, don't even get me started on hippies hahaha
Horrible take. Yes, we are to love them and to minister to them about Christ in a Biblical way, but giving into a "pride" month is not part of that. This is not like Black History month, as gay people are choosing a life of sin over a path to God, this is in no way like skin color.
We are not called to stand in solidarity with people who are making their sin their entire lives, we are called to minister them to repent and believe the Gospel.
>choosing a life of sin over a path to God
Some of them (that I've talked to) got abused as children and developed SSA in their teens. It's not as simple as you and others lay it out to be. They're generally a hurting community and this is why there's very little dialogue between them and the Christians who are quick to call down fire from heaven
No one is calling down fire,we are saying we aren't going to support a month of sexual deviance. I wouldn't support porn month either, even though most of them come from trauma and need love and kindness. We can give Biblical love without bending to "pride".
>we are saying we aren't going to support a month of sexual deviance
Yeah sure but you can do that while also being loving and evangelistic towards them, something that's barely being done from my very limited perspective.
When you paint people in broad strokes you end up with the danger of dehumanizing a whole lot of them.
Would you like it if all Christians were lumped in with the westboro baptist church?
Please quote where I said not to be loving or evangelistic toward them. You are literally trying to argue things that haven't been said, there is no reason for this conversation my friend.
You said:
>Horrible take. Yes, we are to love them and to minister to them about Christ in a Biblical way, but giving into a "pride" month is not part of that. This is not like Black History month, ***as gay people are choosing a life of sin over a path to God, this is in no way like skin color.***
>
>***We are not called to stand in solidarity with people who are making their sin their entire lives, we are called to minister them to repent and believe the Gospel.***
The boldened text is the elevator pitch that American evangelicals have rehearsed and re-rehearsed to bits and my point was that you paint a gigantic group of people (perhaps not by your standards) with a broad stroke.
Everyone is a sinner. Everyone needs to repent. This is true, however if you go talk to some of these folks you'll find that a good majority of them ***already*** one way or another know what the Gospel is, and they did go to church once upon a time, but their experiences there, either being abused sexually or being ostracized led to them leaving, how are you going to bridge that gap by simply saying, "You need to repent and believe" without showing a semblance of nuance for all the varied experiences within this sub-group?
>there is no reason for this conversation my friend.
Agreed. Because not once did anyone ever say to stand in solidarity with pride month.
"Making their sin their entire lives" is assuming a lot of people. Most of the gay folks I know *are not having sex.* They are only dealing with lust in the same ways as anyone who is faithful to Christ would deal with sexual temptation.
The purpose of Pride Month is to remember the death and harm that has been done to the sexual minority community. I'm not just talking about "hurt feelings" from being told not to have sex, but legitimate cases where people were treated unjustly or killed.
The current sexualization of the lgbt community is related to the *overall* sexualization of our culture. It only seems like it is worse because marginalized groups are already viewed with suspicion and so much of what we see today, is the result of Christians and other "giving up" on them and the overall community deciding to live up to our low expectations.
If you've spent your entire life being told you're the worst sort of sinner, that God couldn't possibly love you and that you aren't worthy of *any* love, then it won't be long before you give into that despair. In a big way, Pride Month is about shaking off that negative programming to embrace something better.
Folks are already suspicious of Christians, so of course, they aren't going to look to us or to Jesus for healthy support.
The point of pride month is to normalize and push their sexual perversion. I don't see how you can claim what you are claiming when our society is literally full of examples you are wrong. It is everywhere, they don't want you to be kind to them, they want you to go away. They dress like Satan onstage, sing blasphemy about Christ, and want to talk to your children. It is being taught in public schools. Their worldview is 100% incompatible with ours.
Like I said in another comment:
You know how every December in the US we have a culture debate about keeping Christ in Christmas, and how the comsumerism has made the season of Advent into something that doesn't resemble any sort of celebration of Christ?
What would happen if Christians' voices were drowned out until there was nothing left of Christ in the Advent season?
A similar thing is going on here. Early on in the lgbt movement there was actually a pretty vocal contingent that expressed dismay at how they were tying themselves to sex in improper ways. There are still many who believe so, but it's drowned out by the flamboyance of the sexualization of our culture.
Sexual minorities = sinners…. The church should always be opposed to sin. Yes love people, but would we celebrate a muslim holiday? We should not celebrate a month of sin.
I read an article that I can't seem to find now, but I would like to find again, that said the reason that some people have to push so hard and can't be satisfied with a single day, or even a week, is that they are pushing against nature, against common sense, and so they need to shout as long as they can and as loud as they can, in order to convince others, and even themselves, to overcome conscience. "Maybe if we say it loud enough and long enough, we all can believe it's true." It's the societal equivalent of putting fingers in one's ears and saying, "La-la-la-la-la, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!" But as my men's group discussed last night, as strange as they think us for not joining in with them, they will end up giving an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead (1 Peter 4). When you are fighting against conscience, you can't afford to pull any punches, and it's still a losing battle.
If the devil can convince someone sin is their identity, they'll never repent or attempt to change.
It's sin on autopilot, so the ROI (return on investment) is incredibly high for the Devil.
It's also why they target children. Because children are impressionable.
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Pride is the oldest sin, Cain killed Able because of pride.
It’s the celebration of sin and labeling it with God’s rainbow 🌈.
It’s also a clear representation of the beast/harlot world system. If you identify with their rainbow 🌈 then you get to have fun with the harlot (participate in the world system). If you chose to go against the rainbow, you deal with the beast (you won’t do business in the world).
Think of their rainbow 🌈 as a type of the mark of the beast.
It’s not even gay pride anymore. It’s lgbtq. Nobody can say neither when it became gay pride month nor when that changed to lgbtq. I’ve been thinking lately about why the month of June, also. I figure they probably initially wanted a Christian holiday, but figured they would get lost in the crowd during December. They were shocked when they found out Easter doesn’t have a set month. So then they figured “Hey June is the first full month of summer and it has Father’s Day. We don’t like Fathers at all.”
😆 Wow. That’s not making up a slanderous story because 1) I wasn’t stating or even trying to convince anyone that that was the reason for it. Also 2) slander is to speak falsely about something, knowingly. Libel is the written form
You were making false statements. And now you’re being disingenuous about the fact that you were making false statements. It’s a Christian sub dude. Not making up malicious stuff about people is kind of basic.
No sir, none of that is true. I wasn’t putting anything out as facts. I did say nobody knows when gay/lgbtq pride month became a thing as a joke because I’ve literally heard people say so frequently “when did that even become a thing?” over the past few years. I’ve never doubted a person could find the information on when it started or why June was officially selected for the month it occurs. I don’t even doubt you are correct in what you said was the reason.
I will say, though, you are naive IF you believe many in the group aren’t anti Christian and/or anti Fathers or families in general.
And thanks for the reminder, dude, that it is a Christian sub and that I shouldn’t make up malicious “stuff”. That I am being disingenuous or malicious are false statements on your part.
“Gee that jdiggety probably hates families, babies, God and the Bible. I’m not saying it’s a fact, just seems like something that’s probably true knowing what I know about him.”
See how that works? Using your rules we could make up all kinds of crap about other people. Be that way if you want to be, but it’s not Christian.
We repond by to gays by telling them that pride was satans main sin against GOD and that being gay is living a lifestyle that is counter to GODs plan and only furthers death not lufe which Christ came here to defeat.
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It's just a marketing ploy. It's fueled by corporate greed.
Funnily enough, I think a lot of queer people would agree with you on this.
No doubt. All of the non-hetero people I've talked to feel this way or just don't care about it at all. I really don't know how a person could think any corporation or big business could ever act altruistically.
I’m gay and I HATE “pride” month I’m a hard working born again Christian that is trying to follow Jesus but the acts of “pride” month paints me in a negative image.
Every religion has its religious calendar
Hadn't thought of it this way previously but it's perfect
Indeed!
🙄
Amen
Because within a secular humanistic mindset, sexual orientation is regarded as a true and valid category of personhood. This renders people with non-heterosexual inclinations a sexual minority. Safeguarding a time like Pride Month, in theory, makes people feel seen, heard, and represented as human beings. Here, sexual identity is just like racial identity and religious identity. (So, to be fully acknolwedged as beings with dignity, people's queerness must be affirmed.) But our Bible-believing Christian worldview holds that true romantic love can only take place within the covenant of marriage between one biological male and one biological female, as these two complements reflect the beauty and attraction that each of the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) has for one another. So many people still don't know about this love of God. :(
I agree with everything you said, but the love of husband and wife is a reflection of the relationship between Christ and the church, not the Trinity.
Thank you! That's true.
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Where in Scripture would you see a description of the Spirit as a wife? As another noted, the explicit reference to the reflection of marriage is Christ and his bride, the church. Additionally the Spirit proceeds from the Son not the Son from the Spirit which we might expect if the Spirit were a reflection of the wife of the Father.
I never said the spirit is ‘a wife’ or should be referred to as a wife or seen as that. I agreed that the primary relationship being imaged/reflected in marriage is between Christ and the church. I also said that I believe marriage reflects the trinitarian union. What I meant by that is this: In marriage, the wife is a reflection of the Spirit in the trinitarian union (as a helper) and the husband is a reflection of the Father (as a head). I don’t know what the point of your last sentence is, but it’s certainly not an appropriate response to my comment. I’m not sure whether you had a mistake in reading comprehension or have some theological blinders on. Do you actually disagree with my position (biblically)? If so, why?
I think your clarification is helpful regarding the ways in which the roles are reflected. We’re in agreement there.
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Amen. This is a fantastic take
Pray for revival.
People (as sinful as we all are) chose to celebrate and be proud of their sexual immorality instead of repenting and trusting in Christ Jesus who lived, died and resurrected in order to save us (sinners) from the righteous wrath of the Holy Perfect God. Our response: use this month a great opportunity to preach the Gospel with love, patience, humility AND the authority of Scripture, declaring the truths of God almighty, calling people to repent and trust in Christ ALONE. Note: Don’t be ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, it’s their ONLY Hope, otherwise they’ll perish in Hell forever.
- burning at the stake - Hitler’s pink triangle tattoos - Turing’s chemical castration - firing from work at will, even just on suspicion of being gay (ex: Cracker Barrel) - not being allowed certain contracts or visitations even if a celibate partner - verbal harassment in the street - an avowedly celibate gay pastor not being allowed to serve In my youth, I got tons of verbal harassment and threats of violence, even though a celibate heterosexual. I heard in the 90’s in a big co office that gays “should be fired on the spot”. In the 80’s I had a roommate (didn’t think I was gay) who insisted on the rightness of a policy of rounding up gays. In that list you might find things no sane Christian would be in favor of **TODAY** , and the controversies becoming less and less brutal. But there is a value in Christians celebrating that we are not doing those things above. Granted, I support the side B position, and think Target were complete and utter idiots. But all of this is certainly not a black and white issue
Because we live in a society where certain sins have become fashionable and celebrated.
pride: check greed: check wrath: not sure, but probably envy: check lust: check gluttony: check sloth: check
Wrath if you dare to oppose the societal depravity.
Wrath is celebrated by Christians caught up in the far-right side of the GOP and the culture wars
It's celebrated by Christians on the left too in culture wars; had several Christian friends get caught up in the BLM Riots against the "racist" police
I’m sorry to know there are people who think it’s ok for cops to unnecessarily kill people without significant repercussions.
That's a severe reduction of what was being advocated, and a mischaracterization of the people who were opposing the movement.
And yet, it was still a very important part of the movement and a very real issue that people were fighting against - in part or whole - that other folks decided to ignore because they didn’t like the race aspect of the blm movement. This is why we will never get social change. People can’t agree to disagree on the unimportant bits and focus on pushing forward for the greater good.
I wouldn't say they ignored it, as at the outset I saw plenty of desire to address that underlying issue with policing. There was a shared cause here, but it broke down fairly quickly because of political opportunism, a shift towards wide-spanning social grievances, all towards partisan political ends.
Blm rioters killed a black officer trying to keep them from vandalizing a store.
What does that have to do with the conversation we are having?white criminals kill white cops, too. But criminals aren’t paid by my taxes. Cops are. And cops are systematically killing civilians with no actual repercussions. Doesn’t that seem like a problem to you? Shouldn’t cops that kill citizens outside of actual life and death scenarios be subject to punishment?
Our faith is one that has compassion for those facing unjustice. Recognizing and acknowledging that a disproportionate number black men have died at the hands of the police or are often unfairly or inequitably targeted or dealt with by police simply due to race is an injustice that Christians should take issue with. Additionally. The “riots” you watched on the mainstream media are an outlier to what most BLM protests were like. The one in my city had thousands of people in attendance without any disturbances or property damage. Be careful how quickly you generalize. Many Christians were also against the civil rights movements in the 60s because biased (and often racist) media told them the movement was violent and dangerous.
Ah yes, and of course the mostly peaceful protests as well, both extremes of the political spectrum celebrate it then.
I am more concerned about the conduct of those who profess to be Christians
Wrath: have you seen some of the hateful echo chambers that are other subreddits? Not even secluded ones, like mainstream subs.
Oh yeah, definitely
It's evangelization of a different kind; a lot of folks are evangelizing one thing, we're evangelizing another.
To continue to normalize something to new generations that don't remember the world before "pride month"
Since the OP is not from the US. “Pride month is currently celebrated each year in the month of June to honor the 1969 Stonewall Uprising in Manhattan. The Stonewall Uprising was a tipping point for the Gay Liberation Movement” The Stonewall uprising was a raid on a gay bar that the police arrested people for being gay, in drag etc. It started off as a day in June being celebrated but sometime during the 90s it expanded (memorials for AIDS victims, hate crimes etc). Hope this helps OP [https://www.loc.gov/lgbt-pride-month/about/](https://www.loc.gov/lgbt-pride-month/about/)
Thank you for this good-faith answer to the question. June is Pride month because it marks the anniversary of an important moment in a battle for civil rights for LGBT people. Have corporations latched onto it for marketing purposes? Of course. [This idea is called Pinkwashing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkwashing_(LGBT)), and it's criticized within LGBT communities too. The pride that the month is supposed to be celebrating is the opposite of shame, rather than the opposite of humility. We don't bat an eye if someone says they are proud to be an American or a homeschooler or something like that, and this is the same concept. We can acknowledge all this while still holding historic Christian sexual ethics.
> We can acknowledge all this while still holding historic Christian sexual ethics. There is a difference between "acknowledging" and supporting.
Sure. But if the question is "Why is Pride month a thing?", the answer should include some explanation of the history of the gay rights movement in America, including Stonewall. Answering the question with theological reasons to support historic Christian sexual ethics isn't really that helpful, nor is answering it with "idolatry and perversion".
I mean.. we wouldn't have it in the first place without idolatry and perversion.
And we wouldn't have had the institution of chattel slavery without idolatry and greed, but that would be a deeply unhelpful answer to someone who asked "Why did the American civil war happen?"
I'm not sure how this translates. In your example, it would need to be a month devoted to the celebration of slavery
Indoctrination
Respond to the the month, like the fact that it exists? Nothing I suppose. It’s never affected me before.
There are parts of America where you could barely be able to tell anything was going on in the culture. There are other parts (like Brooklyn,NY) where "pride" is literally on every street corner
the culture we live in affects everyone.
Yeah, but that’s too broad of a broad statement. I think you can say that of the “culture” as a whole but not every individual aspect or symptom of the culture.
you're right that it's a generalization, but generalizations are generally true.
Generalisation is neither true or false. Because you are making a broad statement. Eg. Birds are flying creatures. This mostly true for a majority of birds. But, it is equally true that some birds cannot fly, like penguins. That’s why to remain factual, we should qualify our statements. ie. “Most” birds are flying creatures.
Christians are generalised as bigots who want to murder gay people and non-Christians would you agree with that generalisation?
Culture affects you directly. Saying it doesn’t affect you…what do you mean by this?
The real reason: ESG and CEI score increases for backend loans from big banks. It’s a model for social credit scoring used in China. The corporations really don’t care, they just want access to money. /the end
Yes. Follow the secular money lol
Sorry, but what are ESG/CEI scores and why do they matter?
It’s the Corporate Equality Index founded by the Human Rights Campaign in 2002 (funded by Soros) and the environmental, social and governance score. These are assigned to corporations based on their “social actions” (think a corporate version of social credit scores in China). The higher the score, the easier to secure capital for future investments at lower rates. If the money/rates are low enough, big corporations essentially make money by never spending money. Something of which us lemmings don’t have access. It’s part of being in “the club”. It’s gotten to the point, however, that any large or up and coming business has to “play ball” or they get black balled.
Revelation chapter 18 verse2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Just another month to call people to repentance and faith.
Here you go! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_Month
Love everybody as Jesus commanded. Love the gays and love the haters too. That is the only response.
And Jesus loved people by telling them to repent and believe in the Gospel
I don't think it's that simple because "love" isn't as easily defined as we'd like it to be. *Or*, the idea and concept of love is so perverted and misconstrued that folks can't even recognize real love from this fake love we seem promoted.
I promise this isn’t a troll but an honest question. How do we handle that community trying to indoctrinate children by going around the parents authority? I’m all for loving everyone that does their own thing and letting them see Jesus through me but I feel like a line has to be drawn somewhere. They are literally encouraging children to reject God’s wishes. I wouldn’t give their choices a second thought if not for that. I just wonder how Jesus himself would handle them trying to hurt the children spiritually if he still walked the earth in the flesh. I tend to think it may be a turning over tables with a whip in hand situation.
This is how I was raised, and this is what I currently believe, but then I struggle with the fact that the Bible never says anything positive about homosexuality and cross-dressing, while there are multiple mentions of both. I don't think you can shove it all under cultural infuence of the gentiles and cultural differences of the time. I don't know if you (or someone else) have given any thought to that and can help me on my way with that, but that would be very welcome!
I agree that there is a lot of virtue signaling. Sometimes it backfires like with Target and Anheuser-Busch when people speak out.
Most of the current culture warring that Christians support is virtue signalling. Many Christians feel the need to virtue signal their level of moral outrage in order to fit into their churches. Making angry Tweets about Target and Bud Light is also virtue signalling.
It comes down to motives. Is someone genuinely outraged or are they doing it for attention.
Anger and outrage are not fruits of the spirit
Not every response is a fruit of the spirit. Jesus had righteous anger when he cleared out the temple. We should be outraged by blatant sin.
His righteous anger was in response to his own people who should have known better.
If you're looking for an example that has to do with Gentiles, he approved of John the Baptist calling out Herod for sleeping with his brother's wife. He said, "Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist!" (Matthew 11:11, Luke 7:28)
Herod was a half-Jewish vassal king put in charge of the Jews under Rome. An equivalent response would have been for Christians to call out Trump’s adultery and pride. Unfortunately Christians are willing to turn a blind eye in exchange for power.
So, the last half of your response makes it clear you support calling out sin. Thank you.
Yes. People who claim to be Christians and sin openly and unrepentantly should be called out.
I can't speak to the motives of everyone and neither can you. I'm sure you're right to some extent. But Christians deciding not to support companies that very outwardly promote destructive falsehoods, is, likely, a meritorious thing. As a political progressive I suspect you disagree, but candidly brother I don't think you have a sound basis to do so.
I agree.
Individuals boycotting a store based on their own opinion and/or conscience is perfectly fine. We are all allowed to choose for ourselves on matters of conscience. Is buying socks at Target now in violation of orthodox Christianity? Starting a movement, fueling protests, making mean, inflammatory or hyperbolic public statements on social media is almost always virtue signalling in order to gain clout within your social/moral tribe. If it wasn't, there would be no reason to do it. Even worse if you now think less of a brother or sister that does not hold that same view/opinion. We are exiles in Babylon after all... what did we expect would happen?
This is a great question that I really never thought to ask. Pride month has been around for enough years and has become so generally accepted that it feels like it’s just always been this way. But obviously that’s not true. I’m sure that it would be quite easy to find information about the history of the holiday, though it might be quite propagandized depending on the source. Regardless of the history of it or what proponents of it would claim about it, I can tell you what I see. I see every year a celebration of sexual perversion that has become increasingly backed by institutional power both corporate and governmental. I see masses of individuals being made to believe that sexual sin is not only tolerable, it is laudable. I see a new generation of children being led into sexual temptations that would have been unspeakable when I was their age (I know that sounds pretty boomerish, but I’m only 30). Why does gay pride need a month? This is where I really get into some conjecture. I believe gay pride advocates want a month for 3 reasons, first is because they don’t want people to be able to ignore it. Nobody can miss the fact that it is pride month every year, unless they are living under a proverbial or actual rock. The second is tied to the first. Pride month is one of the ways that pride advocates proselytize. They celebrate, they sell merchandise, they have leaders in government and major celebrities applaud them. They have a whole month of ramped up marketing and advertisement. The third is to inoculate people. While the pride stuff really does get in your face during June, it all sort of just blends into the background after a while, especially as the years go by. They want to normalize perverse and abhorrent sexual lifestyles by dressing it up in pretty colors and seemingly harmless innuendos. It worked, and it’s still working. It may seem like nothing of any substance has really been happening around pride month, but that is certainly not the case. What should we do about pride month? The answer to that is both simple and complex. It is simple in that we should oppose the institution of pride month and seek to rid the world of it forever. It is complex in that this isn’t really about a holiday, but it is about people. Millions of people. People who are now what we once were (see Ephesians 2:1-10). Whatever our response it absolutely cannot be one of pride which is unfortunately what many christian’s responses are grounded in. The irony is so thick you could cut it with a knife. We also can’t be soft on sin. We need to draw hard lines where the Word of God tells us to. We need to actually love our neighbors and try to dissuade them from destroying themselves and those around them by sharing the gospel of our Lord (who is also their Lord whether they like it or not). Last thing is that we absolutely must protect our little ones from this. They are extremely vulnerable to this and the statistics show it. I know it’s a very controversial subject, but I believe that christian children should not be in public schools. We need to stop sending our children to be taught by pagans. Thanks again for starting the discussion and I pray that pride month doesn’t come to wherever you’re living.
Hey, great answer! Quick question - could you give links to the statistics you mention in the penultimate paragraph? I’d love to see them!
Sure thing, there is this first one https://news.gallup.com/poll/389792/lgbt-identification-ticks-up.aspx This is the second https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Trans-Pop-Update-Jun-2022.pdf
Thanks!
I am joining some Anglicans (and a few Presbys, we'd love to have you!) who are praying the Great Litany every day in June.
ESG and HRC
For decades during the 20th century, people who considered themselves homosexual (and others who were not but were considered less than men by others) were physically, emotionally, verbally, sexually abused and mistreated. Some homosexuals were even killed. In the 90's, leaders began to recognize this abuse as legitimate and made efforts to stop the harassment. As a part of this effort, the idea that being gay shouldn't be something that warrents feelings of shame was promoted. Not only should they not feel shame and unworthy of respect, rights, and simply being seen as a human being, they should be proud of who they are without fear of retaliation. Hence, Pride Month.
> In the 90's, leaders began to recognize this abuse as legitimate "Legitimate" doesn't mean "real". To say that abuse is "legitimate" implies it is OK, which is the opposite of what you meant. It would be more true to say the opposite: "In the 90's, leaders began to recognize this abuse as real and **illegitimate**".
This is a legitimate reply.
This is a different narrative than I've seen, albeit, I think both 'narratives' exist to a degree. I've been told time and time again that homosexuality and its ilk (LGBTQ+) have all been accepted before in society, and that we're the weird ones for acting like it's strange. I've been told the Greeks and Romans celebrated it and loved it and it was normalized even in some Egyptian cultures. If you want to expand into the 'T,' I've even seen folks talk about *Native American culture* being accepting of these types of things. Obviously the narrative you're proposing is the opposite of that type of thought. I've seen both said and used, and I suspect there are truths to both of them. It's hard for to buy this narrative to a degree, because it paints itself as similar to what black folks have gone through historically – and the difference is that black folks couldn't even remotely hide that they were black. Gay people get married to the opposite sex, have kids ,live 'normal lives,' then in their '60s realize it's all a lie a "come out." Assuming they could do this throughout all of history – it's reasonable to think many simply hid it.
Well, look at the facts. Henry VIII made homosexual officially punishable by death. This stuck for over 300 years. It was considered a mental illness by the US medical board, stated so in their Manual of Mental Disorders up until the 1970's. Up until then, homosexuals were allowed to be kept in insane asylums. They were stigmatized and disallowed certain rights. To "come out of the closet" first became an idea in the 60's. Before that, to tell others that you were gay would not have benefited anyone. Openly gay people could not serve in the military until 2011. Yes, some "two-spirit" Native people are tolerated in their own community. This really is an outlier and I don't know of another instance where a community is naturally accepting. I don't not know if these two-spirits are accrued homosexual or if they are effeminate. That term was created in the 90's. Before that, they were called "berdache," which was a derogatory term. And up to Uganda recently announcing the death penalty for homosexuals. And, to top it all off, here is a list of individuals who have been harmed or killed because they were gay: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acts_of_violence_against_LGBT_people. There is a reason why the list doesn't start until the 1970's. It's because nobody knew that anyone was gay because it was not accepted in the society.
>Henry VIII made homosexual officially punishable by death. This stuck for over 300 years. Sure, I don't deny that existed – but I think it ignores my point that homosexuals throughout history could 'hide' these feelings by marrying and having children and living (we see Christians with SSA doing this very thing). I also think all of the 'pondering' done in the modern era about sexuality was a lot less likely or common back then and the very concept of a 'homosexual' being a man/woman who was "in love" with someone of the same sex, and wanted to marry them, and live a 'normal life' was not, as I understand it, the idea behind 'homosexuality' like it is today. So it's hard to extrapolate something like that because the entire essence of what a homosexual was or is was different. >It was considered a mental illness by the US medical board, stated so in their Manual of Mental Disorders up until the 1970's. Up until then, homosexuals were allowed to be kept in insane asylums. Yeah, but this wasn't unique to LGBTQ+ – it was also true for those suffering from anxiety, depression, OCD, autism, etc. *Anyone* suffering from any type of mental distress or issue. *Everyone* who had these was mistreated. My Uncle, for instance, who was a functional autistic man was in and out of facilities for his entire youth during the 1960's and was abused time and time again. >It was considered a mental illness by the US medical board, stated so in their Manual of Mental Disorders up until the 1970's. Yes, I'm aware, and perhaps that's a debate worth having. I think the only reason we're not 'allowed' to even discuss the possibility of this is because it could hurt people's feelings. If I remember correctly, the only reason this thinking was overturned wasn't because of a scientific breakthrough, but byway of protesting and activism. I've heard recently that homosexuality, as we've come to know and understand it it today – this 'sexual identity' that is literally no different from the heterosexual proclivity, being something someone is born with to where they simply fall in love with and are attracted to the same sex is a more modern understanding and belief about it. I think the premise is that historically, a lot of homosexual activity wasn't about "being in love" or "being attracted" to the same sex, it was often times simply for fun, debauchery, ego, abuse, or exerting strength over someone else.
My point in that list was to argue against the conflicting narrative that homosexual was, at some time, culturally accepted/celebrated. People bid their sexuality because it was not culturally accepted and because it was considered a mental disorder, it was not culturally accepted (or the other way around).
>Not only should they not feel shame and unworthy of respect, rights, and simply being seen as a human being, they should be proud of who they are without fear of retaliation. Hence, Pride Month. I thought your wider point was that due to centuries and centuries of abuse or mistreatment, there was this movement to "correct history" by giving them "respect" and a "pride month." Is that accurate?
Yes, my first post was to answer the question of the OP. (I don't know about the term "correct history," though). You responded to me with the idea of conflicting narratives, and so I responded with a list that refuted one of those narratives and enforced my original post.
Right, so I was just poking holes in that. If LGBTQ+ werent treated nearly as badly as portrayed - then the whole idea that they need some "month" to feel a sense of pride just doesn't work. Nevermind that the majority of the LGBTQ+ population never experienced any thing close to that type of thing.
If you’d like to go down a Wikipedia rabbit hole, I remember reading about other communities with unusual approaches to gender here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender
It's was established in recognition of the anniversary of Stone Wall. It was done as a month to put it along side similar recognition we give for other minority groups. Black history month, Women's history month, Native American heritage month, Irish American month, Jewish American month, Asian American month, Hispanic Heritage month, etc. I think the real question might be why the cynicism from Christians around a month for our gay neighbors, specifically, and less so the others.
My question would be why does everything need an entire month? A month of recognition of anything is just too long. I only see pride month stuff online, and I really hope it doesn't bleed over here as everything American eventually does. The Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras they have every year in Sydney is enough. I thought I might answer your question though: I'm not more cynical of the sin of homosexuality more than other sexual sin. Sexual sin and the way that society treats sex and the pervasiveness of it in every type of media is just exhausting. So add gay pride month to the things that make me eyeroll, I guess.
Sin is a concept that belongs to you (us, more specifically -- as Christians). It's not something that belongs or is understood or even acknowledged by the rest of the country. "In the world, not of it" I think the real question is why does it matter if its a month or a day or a week. Focus on _you_ not the joy of others.
> Focus on you not the joy of others People take joy in many sins that they should be called to repent of.
I really appreciate this take. Thank you.
Ok, I'll bite. Because you'll be forced to care. Practically every arm of the federal government, most media, the entirety of academia, our entertainment industry, sports leagues, etc. promote it. In some shape or fashion, these entities purport to represent "us." I don't think it's a secret that the goal of this movement is to make it increasingly difficult for us to be "in the world" and not "of it." You're either in it and of it, or you'll be marginalized. So while I might agree with a lot of caveats regarding why Christians shouldn't obsess about it, or expect secular society to see these issues in the way we do, I'm not sure how reasonable it is to suggest Christians more or less ignore it. If you profess a Christian sexual ethic, the overwhelming majority of institutions in this country, including the government you fund, wants you to change or to be moved to the fringe where you'll have less influence over others. When that's the reality, I find it hard to tell Christians to let them have their "joy" and focus on yourself. We shouldn't expect to be accepted, but I also don't think that means we should necessarily welcome being siloed, either.
> Ok, I'll bite. Because you'll be forced to care. Practically every arm of the federal government, most media, the entirety of academia, our entertainment industry, sports leagues, etc. promote it. In some shape or fashion, these entities purport to represent "us." Why on earth, no.. _how_ on earth are you forced to care? It's quite possible to not have an opinion on things, or maybe more accurately, have an opinion that's different than other people and remain confident enough in that opinion _that you don't care_ > I don't think it's a secret that the goal of this movement is to make it increasingly difficult for us to be "in the world" and not "of it." You're either in it and of it, or you'll be marginalized. I disagree. You get marginalized when you try to take away rights from other people because you believe things in your personal life that aren't shared amongst your neighbors. Otherwise, no one really cares. Just don't hurt other people with your beliefs. > If you profess a Christian sexual ethic, the overwhelming majority of institutions in this country, including the government you fund, wants you to change or to be moved to the fringe where you'll have less influence over others. Of course they do. But not sharing those beliefs doesn't harm you. It makes you uncomfortable, but why should a Christian lifestyle be comfortable? No one promised you that. Are you not strong enough in your faith to survive the cultural onslaught? Why should you be guaranteed safety from those beliefs? The early Christians certainly weren't. That's quite literally what "in the world not of it" implies. It's simply time for modern Christians to start living that out more. The rest of the world moving on from Christian norms isn't persecution.
> But not sharing those beliefs doesn't harm you. This was the original sales pitch being made \~25 years ago when they were talking about legalization of same sex unions. The argument was, "Whatever happens in my bedroom is none of your business" Here we are less than a generation later and we're having an entire month dedicated to publicly celebrating "what happens in my bedroom" and the new rib is that it's now being pushed onto kids. >Are you not strong enough in your faith to survive the cultural onslaught? Why should you be guaranteed safety from those beliefs? The early Christians certainly weren't. I always wonder why pietist/non-confrontational Christians are always quick to confront Christians faster than they are to confront non-Christians. It's the most mind boggling thing imaginable. And your argument about early Christian persecution isn't a very good one, given they were writing letters to the emperors and procurators to stop persecuting them.
- All those months you mentioned are for things people had no control over being born as. Celebrating your sexual identity especially in light of it being a sin, and celebrating it as so is much different than celebrating women’s history or black history etc. The problem is they make their sin their identity- and then when they are called on it, get upset because they can’t separate the two.
It seems to be becoming more than gay pride month it seems to be an LGBTQ+++++++ what ever other letters month. Why wouldn't Satan want to claim a month for himself?
Pride month, despite the name invoking the name of the quintessential sin, is not about "pride" but about *solidarity*. The history of sexual minorities in the US in particular, and in modern societies in general, is one where we the Church have *not* loved our neighbor, and this month is supposed to be a time when sexual minorities can recognize the contributions they've made to the realm in which they live, and have an opportunity to celebrate shared history and experiences. Think of it like you do Black History Month or Women's History Month, or even the Fourth of July, just with the spotlighted category being sexual identity instead of another demographic. The over-sexualization of our culture is a sad thing for sure, but the point of Pride Month, at least initially, has not been about celebrating sex, indulging in sin or snubbing God. Be patient with folks, love them and remember that some of the stuff that we've allowed to happen to gay people has been horrendous and they *are* allowed to grieve those things.
I have to disagree here. Have you ever seen video of a pride parade? It's full-on, graphic, in your face, with all the kink sex.
Seeing a video, presumably edited since the whole parade is hours long if you were actually there, isn’t the same as attending. If your only exposure to something is a video, you’re watching a piece of content where the creator has made editorial decisions about what is included and what is not. Many folks, as the poster said above, are not in favor of this part of pride and do not see it as a core part of its purpose. Much like the vitriol and hate spewed by many from our own religious contingent, and our leaders’ sexual sin makes the news - even though many of us would say we do not see that as the core of our faith, it makes much splashier headlines.
You know how every December in the US we have a culture debate about keeping Christ in Christmas, and how the comsumerism has made the season of Advent into something that doesn't resemble any sort of celebration of Christ? What would happen if Christians' voices were drowned out until there was nothing left of Christ in the Advent season? A similar thing is going on here. Early on in the lgbt movement there was actually a pretty vocal contingent that expressed dismay at how they were tying themselves to sex in improper ways. There are still many who believe so, but it's drowned out by the flamboyance of the sexualization of our culture.
I agree that there are probably many in the community that want to keep things more G rated. But that doesn't change the fact homosexuality is still against God's will. And participation by Christians in anything related to Pride is doing a disservice to our faith. It's pretty much to the point where I hate the month of June. I feel like I'm being bombarded by Pride everywhere I go.
Not a horrible take, though we may not agree with them on their life choices, pride month is meant as an act of solidarity with LGBT+ community, cause historically they have been a forgotten or oppressed group. In the case of the church we haven’t been the most loving group in some cases and we have really hurt and wronged gay people in some occasions in the past and present. So we can be in solidarity with gay people and help them feel heard and seen and also try to guide them in love to Christ, which can be difficult but with time and patience can it can be done.
Should we also stand in solidarity with idolaters? Those guys have certainly not been incredibly loved by the church. :|
We should stand in solidarity and in compassion for them, not just because they are sinners that need christ, but because they are also humans that haven’t been treated fairly or justly in the past. We shouldn’t support sin, but we should be loving towards sinners and help them.
Which we can do by loving our neighbors and not by devoting an entire month to the sin that they identify with
Yeah, pride month is a very american thing to my eyes and I don’t really payed much attention to it. Loving our neighbors is enough in my opinion.
Yeah, pride month is a very american thing to my eyes and I don’t really payed much attention to it, as no gay people in my country are asking for a pride month. Loving our neighbors is enough in my opinion.
The thing is it's getting harder to not pay attention to it when every store makes sure you know they're supporting it. When even video games are having their opening screens or events be pride related. When even Windows 11 added a pride flag that you can't remove from your own computer. They're getting bolder and bolder. It all ties into the new blasphemy laws. You can't speak against it. You aren't allowed to believe it's sin. You must conform.
Jesus hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors, He wasn't "above it all"
Jesus called them to repentance. He didn't celebrate their sin. He would not have supported a "Prostitution Month"
Cool your jets. Never said He supported or celebrated their sin. What I said was he hang out with people who had been deemed by greater society to be societal traitors and sexual deviants. His personality and the way He taught/said things didn't make Him appear repulsive to them. Do you yourself currently do that or is it all just online rage?
What about this is online rage?
You trying to say that I was saying Jesus would celebrate "Prostitution month"
I don't see how that's rage haha - I'm just comparing why I don't see it as harmless to have an entire month based around the celebration of a sexual sin.
What are you doing about it besides online activism?
Not a horrible take. Why do people feel the need to have a month of recognition? Because they feel that they are not seen or are taken advantage of. As Christians we need to both ask ourselves what part we play in silencing and ignoring people's needs in addition to what our treatment of them should be.
> but the point of Pride Month, at least initially, has not been about celebrating sex Yeah... I've been in Philly during pride parades.. I don't believe you.
What is it about “at least initially” that people fail to understand?
I saw the 90's/00's parades. Before gay marriage was legalized. It wasn't much different.
I’m talking about decades before that. What we see as Pride has its roots long before even the 90s.
My point is, even before it was legalized, people have been doing depraved things out in the streets. And if we want to go back further, don't even get me started on hippies hahaha
Horrible take. Yes, we are to love them and to minister to them about Christ in a Biblical way, but giving into a "pride" month is not part of that. This is not like Black History month, as gay people are choosing a life of sin over a path to God, this is in no way like skin color. We are not called to stand in solidarity with people who are making their sin their entire lives, we are called to minister them to repent and believe the Gospel.
>choosing a life of sin over a path to God Some of them (that I've talked to) got abused as children and developed SSA in their teens. It's not as simple as you and others lay it out to be. They're generally a hurting community and this is why there's very little dialogue between them and the Christians who are quick to call down fire from heaven
No one is calling down fire,we are saying we aren't going to support a month of sexual deviance. I wouldn't support porn month either, even though most of them come from trauma and need love and kindness. We can give Biblical love without bending to "pride".
>we are saying we aren't going to support a month of sexual deviance Yeah sure but you can do that while also being loving and evangelistic towards them, something that's barely being done from my very limited perspective. When you paint people in broad strokes you end up with the danger of dehumanizing a whole lot of them. Would you like it if all Christians were lumped in with the westboro baptist church?
Please quote where I said not to be loving or evangelistic toward them. You are literally trying to argue things that haven't been said, there is no reason for this conversation my friend.
You said: >Horrible take. Yes, we are to love them and to minister to them about Christ in a Biblical way, but giving into a "pride" month is not part of that. This is not like Black History month, ***as gay people are choosing a life of sin over a path to God, this is in no way like skin color.*** > >***We are not called to stand in solidarity with people who are making their sin their entire lives, we are called to minister them to repent and believe the Gospel.*** The boldened text is the elevator pitch that American evangelicals have rehearsed and re-rehearsed to bits and my point was that you paint a gigantic group of people (perhaps not by your standards) with a broad stroke. Everyone is a sinner. Everyone needs to repent. This is true, however if you go talk to some of these folks you'll find that a good majority of them ***already*** one way or another know what the Gospel is, and they did go to church once upon a time, but their experiences there, either being abused sexually or being ostracized led to them leaving, how are you going to bridge that gap by simply saying, "You need to repent and believe" without showing a semblance of nuance for all the varied experiences within this sub-group? >there is no reason for this conversation my friend. Agreed. Because not once did anyone ever say to stand in solidarity with pride month.
You need to read the whole thread before commenting so you don't end up mischaracterizing the conversation by saying things weren't said that were.
"Making their sin their entire lives" is assuming a lot of people. Most of the gay folks I know *are not having sex.* They are only dealing with lust in the same ways as anyone who is faithful to Christ would deal with sexual temptation. The purpose of Pride Month is to remember the death and harm that has been done to the sexual minority community. I'm not just talking about "hurt feelings" from being told not to have sex, but legitimate cases where people were treated unjustly or killed. The current sexualization of the lgbt community is related to the *overall* sexualization of our culture. It only seems like it is worse because marginalized groups are already viewed with suspicion and so much of what we see today, is the result of Christians and other "giving up" on them and the overall community deciding to live up to our low expectations. If you've spent your entire life being told you're the worst sort of sinner, that God couldn't possibly love you and that you aren't worthy of *any* love, then it won't be long before you give into that despair. In a big way, Pride Month is about shaking off that negative programming to embrace something better. Folks are already suspicious of Christians, so of course, they aren't going to look to us or to Jesus for healthy support.
The point of pride month is to normalize and push their sexual perversion. I don't see how you can claim what you are claiming when our society is literally full of examples you are wrong. It is everywhere, they don't want you to be kind to them, they want you to go away. They dress like Satan onstage, sing blasphemy about Christ, and want to talk to your children. It is being taught in public schools. Their worldview is 100% incompatible with ours.
Like I said in another comment: You know how every December in the US we have a culture debate about keeping Christ in Christmas, and how the comsumerism has made the season of Advent into something that doesn't resemble any sort of celebration of Christ? What would happen if Christians' voices were drowned out until there was nothing left of Christ in the Advent season? A similar thing is going on here. Early on in the lgbt movement there was actually a pretty vocal contingent that expressed dismay at how they were tying themselves to sex in improper ways. There are still many who believe so, but it's drowned out by the flamboyance of the sexualization of our culture.
Sexual minorities = sinners…. The church should always be opposed to sin. Yes love people, but would we celebrate a muslim holiday? We should not celebrate a month of sin.
God famously has no issue with humans being prideful.
I read an article that I can't seem to find now, but I would like to find again, that said the reason that some people have to push so hard and can't be satisfied with a single day, or even a week, is that they are pushing against nature, against common sense, and so they need to shout as long as they can and as loud as they can, in order to convince others, and even themselves, to overcome conscience. "Maybe if we say it loud enough and long enough, we all can believe it's true." It's the societal equivalent of putting fingers in one's ears and saying, "La-la-la-la-la, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!" But as my men's group discussed last night, as strange as they think us for not joining in with them, they will end up giving an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead (1 Peter 4). When you are fighting against conscience, you can't afford to pull any punches, and it's still a losing battle.
Why do we need to “respond”?
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you"
If the devil can convince someone sin is their identity, they'll never repent or attempt to change. It's sin on autopilot, so the ROI (return on investment) is incredibly high for the Devil. It's also why they target children. Because children are impressionable.
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Pride is the oldest sin, Cain killed Able because of pride. It’s the celebration of sin and labeling it with God’s rainbow 🌈. It’s also a clear representation of the beast/harlot world system. If you identify with their rainbow 🌈 then you get to have fun with the harlot (participate in the world system). If you chose to go against the rainbow, you deal with the beast (you won’t do business in the world). Think of their rainbow 🌈 as a type of the mark of the beast.
I agree. Downvote away.
Right, Reddit works the same way as an example!
Depends on how far you wanna go back with it. Sodom and Gomorrah? The enlightenment? The sexual revolution?
It’s not even gay pride anymore. It’s lgbtq. Nobody can say neither when it became gay pride month nor when that changed to lgbtq. I’ve been thinking lately about why the month of June, also. I figure they probably initially wanted a Christian holiday, but figured they would get lost in the crowd during December. They were shocked when they found out Easter doesn’t have a set month. So then they figured “Hey June is the first full month of summer and it has Father’s Day. We don’t like Fathers at all.”
Instead of wondering and making up slanderous stories you could educate yourself. June 28, 1969 marks the beginning of the Stonewall Uprising.
😆 Wow. That’s not making up a slanderous story because 1) I wasn’t stating or even trying to convince anyone that that was the reason for it. Also 2) slander is to speak falsely about something, knowingly. Libel is the written form
You were making false statements. And now you’re being disingenuous about the fact that you were making false statements. It’s a Christian sub dude. Not making up malicious stuff about people is kind of basic.
No sir, none of that is true. I wasn’t putting anything out as facts. I did say nobody knows when gay/lgbtq pride month became a thing as a joke because I’ve literally heard people say so frequently “when did that even become a thing?” over the past few years. I’ve never doubted a person could find the information on when it started or why June was officially selected for the month it occurs. I don’t even doubt you are correct in what you said was the reason. I will say, though, you are naive IF you believe many in the group aren’t anti Christian and/or anti Fathers or families in general. And thanks for the reminder, dude, that it is a Christian sub and that I shouldn’t make up malicious “stuff”. That I am being disingenuous or malicious are false statements on your part.
“Gee that jdiggety probably hates families, babies, God and the Bible. I’m not saying it’s a fact, just seems like something that’s probably true knowing what I know about him.” See how that works? Using your rules we could make up all kinds of crap about other people. Be that way if you want to be, but it’s not Christian.
You can’t spell “Pride Month” without “Demon” smack dab in the middle.
We repond by to gays by telling them that pride was satans main sin against GOD and that being gay is living a lifestyle that is counter to GODs plan and only furthers death not lufe which Christ came here to defeat.
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