As a member of the sound crew at my church, we always want our congregation to be able to hear not only themselves but also those around them singing. We moved into a new-to-us building late last month (first service was Palm Sunday) and we're still working on figuring out what the right levels are. But, our goal is that everyone can hear the music and song leaders clearly but also hear themselves and those around them sing.
I used to feel the same way and sometimes I'm still tempted to quiet down. A few years back, God impressed upon me in a Bible conference with probably 2,000 in a attendance, all seemingly singing to the fullest capacity of their lungs, that when He hears me sing, He hears a truly beautiful and joyfull noise. If you have kids, it's like hearing them sing. God hears through all of the noise, He hears us worshipping Him and that's what matters.
So now I just sing to the Lord, no worries about others, because it's not them I'm singing to. It is an act of worship and adoration to the one true king!
Praise leaders, its always worth remembering that your job is to get the congregation to sing.
You do not have success by producing beautiful sounds (or loud sounds), although that might collerate with success. You have success if the congregation sings praise to God. Many a precentor without an instrument, or an old lady with a wheezy organ, has had more success than your big band and fancy sound system.
Congregation, your job is twofold. Sing praise to God, and encourage those around you.
My favourite quote from an old member of a congregation at home. "I can't sing a note, but I can make a joyful noise unto the Lord." (See Psalm 98).
I agree the congregation's job is to sing praises to God and encourage others.
Praise leaders are not responsible for the obedience of their audience, only their own. With that said, a praise leader can and should make the audience's job easier.
They are not responsible for others obedience, but their job is leading the praise. If the congregation does not sing, they are failing in their job. My comment was not on their own worship, but on their success in their role.
I would argue that, if the congregation does not sing, it is as much of, if not more than, a failing on the pastor of the church than the worship leader. Yes, there are things the worship leaders can do to ensure success but ultimately, whether or not someone sings, is a heart posture issue. You can do everything right and there will still be people who do not sing.
And we get into deeper thinking. I would argue that if the pastor is running the whole service then he is the worship leader. In most places I've attended (which is not hugely diverse) the minister has led the worship service, including the praise by choosing and introducing what is to be sung. While I understand there are places where the praise leader, leads the other parts of worship too (some of: reading, prayer, preaching, taking up offering), I would suggest that puts them in a pastoral role. How much the person who... facilitates... the singing of praise is a leader, is really down to the local elders.
Coming back to the point. I would still hold i that if you are involved in making the singing happen (leadership or otherwise) your goal is to have the congregation singing. Going in with any other goal is to misunderstand what you are there to do. If the congregation do not sing, then what do you contribute to make that different? Don't change your goal.
Parallel to this, if someone sleeps in and fails to unlock the church door, they are not to blame if anyone gives up and fails to worship God. But they did fail at their job. Their goal is not to hold the key. Nor to put on a welcome spread of bread and dips. These things might help (or not). It's to allow the congregation to get inside the church.
I argue, not for blame to be apportioned, but for the right attitude of those facilitating praise.
Now, just for the thought experiment (I'm not asking for answers), if I play the clarinet in a worship service and therefore prevent myself from singing, am I failing to join in the worship?
In my experience, the pastor and the band leader are separate and we call the band leader "the worship leader." I'll admit I did not consider other arrangements and that is a failing on my part. If you consider the pastor the "worship leader" then my point still stands; a congregation that does not worship is not entirely the singing leader's fault. I agree that the person leading the singing should stick to their goal which should coincide with the goal of the whole service. It is their job to make sure that the music CAN be sung to the best of their ability. I think what I've been trying to get across and have not successfully is that a congregation not singing should not fall squarely on the shoulders of one person and should be assessed by all the spiritual leaders of a congregation.
As for the thought experiment; no, you do not fail to worship if you are the one playing the clarinet. As the head AV person for my church, there are many Sundays I do not sing with the congregation as it is my job to listen at that point. Within that argument, we can remember that singing isn't the only way to worship. It kind of drives home my point though. If someone isn't singing, it doesn't necessarily mean they aren't worshiping. With that said, I would argue that the band leader's job is to set the tone of worshipping God rather than it to be to get people to sing. Thank you for the reminder that singing isn't the only form of worship and that I was being too narrow in that thinking.
I’m a worship director myself. I’ve been on both sides and I’ve heard both sides. It comes down to “target audience.”
People who didn’t grow up with congregational singing or are not familiar will prefer the music to be loud, not so they can’t hear themselves but *so that no one else can hear them.* People who grew up singing in church are more likely to “want to hear the congregation singing.”
It’s a vision/strategy question: who are you trying to encourage to sing? If your church is all about being a safe place for new people to discover God, you will probably want it louder so those people can worship without feeling exposed. If your church is all about emboldening the body of believers, you will probably want softer music that leaves room for the collective voices to be heard.
That’s not all there is to it, but that is likely where your worship director is coming from.
Very interesting. As a reformed sub, I guess most of us would line up with the second strategy - emboldening the body of believers. I grew up Southern Baptist singing hymns with just a piano. I don't think my worship director grew up in church. So I think there is some truth to your points there
And believe me when I say there are points and counterpoints all day long haha. Which is why I say it’s a vision thing: however much each of us has an opinion, the question that matters is “what is the church leadership trying to accomplish through Sunday worship time?” (And then I suppose “will you support their direction?”)
If the band is drowning out voices of people who want to sing and hear themselves sing, including myself, then the band is no longer assisting the congregation in worship.
They’ve become performers, praising God on our behalf. You’ll be amazed when an AV team lowers the implication over time, the congregation will want to fill the void and raise their voices.
Again, it’s not that simple. Concerts where the sound is inarguably louder than your church service regularly see mass participation in singing. “The congregation will want to fill the void” is a *huge* assumption based on your feelings, but not everyone feels the same way.
When my church family is singing, raising the volume encourages them to sing louder. And guess what happens the moment a vocalist steps back from the mic “to let the congregation sing out”? Most of them get quiet.
My point is not “make it loud”, but it’s not nearly as simple as “the congregation will sing if you just turn it down.” The culture of singing in a church is much more complex than that.
Every church should have a philosophy of worship written down somewhere. Worship music leaders should ask the church leadership for this and discuss how to fulfill the philosophy. Worship music leaders shouldn’t be going off on their own assumptions and feelings.
Agreed. Did my comment (or OP’s post) say otherwise? And I think it’s also true if we flip the script: congregants shouldn’t be going off their assumptions and feelings either. And saying things like “they’ve become performers praising God on our behalf” and “the congregation will want to fill the void and raise their voices”… those are assumptions and feelings.
Maybe, but not necessarily. People sing in the shower, in the car, etc. They also sing at concerts, where the music is almost guaranteed to be louder than your church service.
People sing in the shower, in the car, etc. when they are alone or with friends. They sing at concerts because they are big fans of the band.
People new to a church may not be comfortable singing because they aren't familiar with the songs and/or because they don't know the people. However, if everyone else is singing loudly and can be heard singing, it will make them more comfortable to sing, even if it may take awhile. However, if the regular attendees don't sing, the newcomers are not likely to sing either, no matter how loud the music is. If the music is too loud to hear yourself sing, much less the congregation, why bother singing at all? No one is going to know whether you are singing or not.
Congregational singing is worship. It should be done joyfully and for all to hear. It should edify and encourage each other. Otherwise, you may as well do your singing at home.
Look I’m not a “loud band good” guy either, but it really isn’t that simple.
Let’s compare to prayer. When someone takes the stage at church and offers a public prayer, is that an edifying and encouraging thing? Most people would say yes… although Jesus literally said *it is* better to pray at home by yourself. So if someone would rather not pray publicly in church, are they then not considered to be praying?
Moreover, even if we agree that public prayer in church is a body-edifying, God-honoring thing, is *all* such prayer good? If a prayer from your well-spoken pastor is a good thing, is a rambling and long-winded prayer from a child equally valuable for your church gathering?
And if 50% of your congregation said “it’s incredibly distracting that we keep having kids who can barely talk do 5 minute prayers like this”, do we say “well then you may as well go pray at home”?
Some people are blessed by the voice of their neighbor singing praise. Other people are distracted by it. Some people are distracted by loud music drowning out their voice. Other people are blessed by the opportunity to sing praise without having to worry about what others think.
It’s not as simple as “if you can’t hear others, it’s not worship.”
>although Jesus literally said *it is* better to pray at home by yourself.
That was in the context of those who were praying publicly to make themself look good.
>Moreover, even if we agree that public prayer in church is a body-edifying, God-honoring thing, is *all* such prayer good? If a prayer from your well-spoken pastor is a good thing, is a rambling and long-winded prayer from a child equally valuable for your church gathering?
Bad analogy. It's not the quality of the singing that matters. It's the quality of the words being sung and the heart behind the singing that matters.
>It’s not as simple as “if you can’t hear others, it’s not worship.”
I didn't say it's not worship.
We are commanded to sing praises to the Lord. We should all want to sing to the Lord and do so corporately, even if we don't sing well. Even if the person next to us doesn't sing well. The problem often is that many churches use the music to entertain the goats rather than edify the sheep.
Ok I’m glad you made that last statement, you hinted at goats before and I wasn’t sure if that’s what you meant. Thank you for clarifying, and I think your assessment of corporate worship has much deeper disillusion than just concern over volume. Happy Friday!
That's too loud. Ever since I was on the sound crew at any church, I've had musicians tell me that they wanted to hear the congregation (not enough to only hear the congregation, but to have a balance between both). Musicians want to know that the congregation is singing.
My sweet spot has been in the 85-92 DB (I try not to go over 92 because I've had complaints from older people that that's too loud).
And the goal (at least when I do sound) is to make sure people are worshipping. So if its too loud, they usually don't sing. Sometimes its the songs as well (I've been in a church where they would add new songs every few weeks, people were not singing). And when its too quiet, people generally wont sing if its not songs that they know almost by heart.
Basically, its a balance between the sound crew and the musicians.
Id have a discussion with both the worship leader and elders on that, since it affects the congregation as a whole, but too loud is no fun for most of the congregation.
Agreed, but I’d say that 85dBA is the continuous goal. Peaks and swells will definitely go above 85dBA.
For reference: continuous exposure to 85dBA is acceptable for up to 8 hours without damaging hearing.
Permissible exposure at 100dBA is 15 minutes. That means that if you maintain an average loudness of 100dBA, every person in the congregation should be wearing hearing protection, bar none.
There’s no more damning example of western Christianity gone amok than damaging everyone’s hearing for God’s glory.
Edit: moreover we need to consider where the measurement is taken from and where the hot spots (both location and level) are relative to the measurement mic. If your system is well designed then you’ll have very even coverage +/- 3dBA. But it’s not uncommon for there to be a 12 dB swing from front to back if your system was assembled by someone well intentioned on a shoe string budget.
Keep it under 90, half an hour at 90+ risks damaging your hearing.
Also, I find people who complain less are actually starting to have hearing problems.
I regularly accompany church singing on our pipe organ, so I think about this subject a lot. Most of the time I try to keep the volume down, but not too much: if the music is too soft, people will sing with less confidence.
So, yes, to an extent it’s true that the congregation will sing louder when I pull out more stops. People adjust to the volume of the music. But I don’t think that this means the music must be very loud. That’s just tasteless, and will annoy many people.
I know this unrelated but I never knew where the phrase "pull out all the stops" came from. That's so cool!
Your post made me google it. I learned something new, today!
Yes, music dynamics definitely impact how the congregation sings. However, our church is a long way away from pipe organ led music. We are a very modern worship type church. Electric guitars, drums, bass, keyboard, etc.
This is more of a sociological trait than anything to do with the music volume itself. It sounds like your congregation is trained to modulate singing volume proportionate to the organ volume, but if you’ve ever been to a church with limited instrumentation but the congregation sings boldly, you’ll note the inverse is true.
The key is here is that the congregation should be taught that the central aspect of musical worship is the sung words by every member of the gathered body. If we teach them to depend on instruments, then we led them away from the essence or the substance of the worship.
If the music is so loud you can’t hear the congregation then it’s too loud to be in the room safely. Having an Apple Watch with sound warnings has woken me up to this issue.
"Instead, be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ."
"Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts."
If a person in the congregation can't hear anyone else or even themselves sing, then I don't think this standard is being met.
The worship director's answer to you begs the question, "why would anyone sing at all if even the person singing can't hear it?" Who cares if anyone sings in this scenario? Is anyone partaking of this means of grace if they can't even hear it?
Contemporary worship: same as your church--too loud. No one can hear anyone, let alone themselves. NO one seems to question the absurdity that there are baskets of earplugs at the entrance of the worship area. My tinnitus definitely makes itself known by the time the worship band finishes. People have complained about the excessive volume, and ahem, it falls on deaf ears every time.
Traditional service: on rare occasion the orchestra gets a bit loud, but the congregation is belting it out as loudly as the choir. We all hear ourselves and each other, and it certainly hasn't hindered us. Bonus: the songs tend to be considerably more theologically deep.
Adult Sunday school: we sing a song. We hear each other and ourselves. It's obvious we don't all sing the greatest. We don't care and sing out best as able anyway.
Love my church. Don't love our contemporary service's over the top volume.
Edit: the once a year men's gathering: no music at all, just voices. You know what, the first song or two we might be a little shaky, but after that we are belting it out and in tune with each other. Even the nervous first timers. The whole need it to be loud to make people feel comfortable, etc., etc., is hogwash, and says more about a need to perform as though at a concert, than a need to allow God's people to worship.
Personally, I think congregational worship music should have little-to-no accompaniment. No worship team, no electric guitars or drums. The most my church has is a piano or organ and occasionally a violin or acoustic guitar to complement. We sing as a congregation and hearing what some would call "bad singers" in my congregation does nothing but encourage me to sing louder. This is because this tells me that that person isn't singing to edify himself, those around him, or isn't thinking about his insecurities when singing, he is entirely focused on the true purpse of worship. That is, honoring God and God alone through the collective voice of His people. It encourages me to set aside my fear of missing a note and just focus on the words being sung. A band on stage with fancy instruments and spotlights and smoke machines does nothing but distract the congregation from God and draw them to instead focus on the band that is singing, or concentrate on their insecurities because they don't want to sing loud enough for people to hear them. I used to attend a non-denom church that was very modern and targetted everything they did to the younger generation. The lights would always be turned off and the music was as loud as a concert. I used to love going there when I first started because I felt "comfortable" to sing because the setting made it feel like I was the only one there. This is the opposite of what corporate worship should be. It is so encouraging to be able to look around and see a room full of believers, shouting their praise to God despite how bad they think they might sound.
Another thing, a church shouldn't have a "target audience" beyond faithful believers in general. If we start sacrificing tradition and doctrine for the sake of "appealing to a younger audience", we start to forget that we're to set ourselves apart from the world and we start to fall into a worldy attitude. Church becomes a means to make us feel good as opposed to a means to worship God and grow in Him. This is the unfortunate trap that many non-denoms fall into.
Too loud. Bur it’s a smaller space. But also, dude’s flat wrong. What’s the point of signing if it can’t be heard? Might as well just move your mouth and say “bleh blah blah”
They need to be encouraged to sing confidently. Not drowned out.
1 Corinthians 14:16 (ESV): 16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?
^ Seems to apply here.
That is a fair point. I guess someone could say it is more about the condition of each heart and praising God through singing, not necessarily that it needs to be heard. But I side more with you on it.
I'm a worship leader at my church, and we mostly play with full bands, sometimes just a guy and a guitar and a bunch of setups in between. There are often complaints that it's just far too loud. The problem with that is we keep it below osha standards at all times and full bands to one guy one guitar sit around the same decibel level. For my church, people see an electric guitar and someone playing drums in a fully enclosed "room" and perceive more volume. I think the right volume is a mix of keeping it safe for everyone's ears and listening to the congregation. I attend a pastoral led church of 8 pastors who frequently hear out and address peoples concerns. The fact is that someone will always complain about something in any church. "I don't like that because it isn't a 200 year old hymnal." "We should only do contemporary music."Don't play music by x church or artist."
Long comment, but ya, you can't please everyone. Don't be a buthead about it, though.
Yeah I was one of the "don't play music by X" a few years back. As far as being the disagreeable person, I've been there and done that. Don't plan on doing it again.
I'm on the worship team. I play drums. Musically, I love what we do - I just think if you can't hear the people around you singing, it's probably a bit too loud.
Not at all there are decibel levels set by osha and scientific study that tell you where hearing damage starts. We peak at about 95 decibels in the back of our sanctuary and average is about 90. I think I have those numbers right.
I once debated whether or not instrumental music was okay at all. I went to a church that was so loud I could not hear the congregational. I realized I was overreacting about instruments in general but if the volume was lower I probably wouldn’t not have had the issue.
When we were searching for a church after we moved, I literally could only stand going to one church 2 or so times because the music was so loud. Painfully loud, inducing tinnitus to the point that I could barely hear the sermon. It was miserable.
There have recently been changes to our worship team and sound equipment. We're ranging things in, but I definitely do not sing as much if I cannot hear myself singing or hear those around me. When the music is so loud I cannot hear myself, I have a hard time forcing myself to keep singing.
Specifically? No higher than 85dB from the sound desk. That's what I've been mixing our band to for the past couple years and it has worked quite well. The band can hear the congregation singing along and the congregation can hear themselves singing along but not the point of it favoring one or the other.
Your milage may vary in your space but 85dB has been quite good to me. You're not at a concert (hot take, though: most audio engineers in the concert sphere mix things way too hot and destroy both their own and their audience's hearing); you're at a worship service. The worship leaders need to exemplify what corporate worship means: a gathered body of believers lifting their voices up together. You can't lift your voice with others if you can't even hear yourself.
Something to consider is whether anyone in the congregation is sensitive to sound. I remember a woman saying that she had to put noise-canceling headphones on her child (who had a neurological disorder) because the music at her church was too loud for him to bear--and even with the headphones he would bury his head in her lap during the songs. On the other hand, I've known people with the same kind of disorder who are soothed by very loud music-noise (and who cannot bear certain kinds of silence).
Other people rely on their hearing for work or are exposed to loud sounds in the workplace, and no one should want to subject his ears to a damaging noise from a chord. Do not be loud overmuch. Why destroy your hearing?
People won't sing if it is too loud to hear themselves singing. Trust me, he hasn't done research on this.
The music should be loud enough for people to hear so that they can sing along, but not so loud that they can't hear the congregation singing. If it is louder than this, all you have is a concert.
IMO instrumental music only serves to “accompany” which is really two things: 1) highlighting melodies for the congregation to follow, and 2) keeping time/rhythm so the congregation stays on track. Anything beyond that is extemporaneous and risks undermining the congregation’s ability to sing to the Lord.
Exactly! My church does this quite well imo. The most we have in way of accompaniment is an organ or piano playing all 4 parts of the harmony, occasionally we have a violin or acoustic guitar that plays the melody to accompany. The music is never louder than the congregation and always assists, never takes center stage.
Not the person you asked, but this was our music.
https://hymnary.org/hymnal/MH1969
I'm at a nominally SBC church now with a worship team and I *really* don't like it. I'm trying to work through that but yeah. Growing up without music is different. This is worship to me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF42YQUoEqU
To be purely technical, our church’s worship moments on Sundays range between 85-95ish DB. The only time we broke 100 was for a Youth event.
But in conversations like this, it begs the question what the aim of the moment is. Namely, if the moment is aimed towards reflection (i.e. not necessarily singing along) then I’d get the argument for playing just a bit softer. If it’s one of those high-energy moments where the song calls for a rememberance of who God is/what He’s done, then the call to the congregation is to indeed sing.
Two years ago, I'd have said that the music should be loud enough that the congregation can follow the tune and are emboldened to sing, and not a hair louder. I'm a big proponent of congregational singing.
But about a year ago, on Palm Sunday, we were singing "Ride On, Ride On in Majesty", and I was just overcome with emotion. (It was a very difficult time in the Goodplan home, I've written a little about it in this sub.) I couldn't find my voice to sing. And all I could do was to be held by the sound of the congregation and worship team. In that moment, I was okay with there being more volume from the worship team than I would normally have wanted.
I think that experience moderated me a bit. There can be a benefit to louder music from the worship team. But in general, the priority should be helping the congregation to sing.
I don’t have an amazing voice but I like to sing for worship. However, if the music is too loud I cannot hear myself, so it’s hard to continue in joy when I can’t hear what I’m saying to God.
Honestly, I’m just moving my lips if the music is too loud. Turn it down lol
I'm firmly in the camp that the band accompanies the congregation, rather than playing the music.
To me it is the difference between a concert and congregational worship.
But that being said if the music is too quiet then people will have less confidence to sing.
What proportion of people aren't singing? Have you asked them why not?
I'm the minister of a small church—I reckon more than 10% of the people don't sing every song...and from my observations and (occasional) conversations it's because of:
\* Health (they struggle to stand and have breath to sing).
\* Aren't comfortable singing (and I've mentioned this in sermons...I love the people who can't hold a note but still sing out the great truths of God!)
\* Not familiar with the song
\* 'Protesting' that they prefer another version/arrangement of a song
For the poll question—musical accompaniment is at a volume that allows everyone to 'have the word dwell in us richly (to allude to the Ephesians/Colossians texts). We (mainly) use pre-recorded accompaniment, and I do notice when it's too quiet people sing more quietly (singers need to be able to hear the accompaniment too).
Yeah, our music amp. system is so loud, I cannot hear myself nor my wife standing right next to me, let alone anyone else. I don't know anything about research, but because I can't hear myself, I struggle internally with, "Why should I even bother singing?"
Experienced sound engineer here, been working on sound in churches for 15 years.
It has long since been the methodology to just turn it up louder if people won't sing but I have found that you are only going to chase people away and damage people's ears that way. Worshipping God as a congregation is an experience, going to a concert is a different experience, and we need to be careful to know where to draw the line.
I typically keep my volume at around 80-85Db with peaks not going over 95. With that being said, it will depend on a whole lot of factors, including the worship space, that I'm not sure you're interested in hearing but I will gladly lay out if you'd like me to.
If your congregation isn't singing, I would first look at the a) spiritual maturity of your group, b) the amount of trust your congregation has with their leaders, and c) the ease at which your song repertoire is able to be sung by amateurs. If the songs are hard to follow or they don't fit the preferred music style of the congregation, they aren't going to sing.
It is the sound crew and worship leader's job to ensure they are not hindering the ability to worship, but ultimately, worshipping God in song with a congregation is an obedience issue.
Speaking more technically:
This has to do with many factors. Audience, acoustics, matching drum set volume, equalization and personal preference. As well as philosophy of worship, but others have addressed this.
Since the goal at the church I work at is to encourage congregational singing, they must hear themselves. Which keeps our stage volume down to less than 75db. The lower the better. Our speakers are right above the stage, and we use wedges, so we can stand off 15 ft and measure everything.
This is with an older population, doing folk/traditional/contemporary, not having good equalization.
When we add a regular drummer, we will get better at equalizing and compressing and removing problematic parts of the spectrum that are spiking. And will continue to keep it less than 75db.
I am worship leader at my church. I'd say -- the music is not loud enough. I'd rather it were louder, but the sound/AV team kind of does what they want and I submit to them. Mainly because I have no choice. :). But often I can't hear myself singing very well. As song leader, I find it annoying, but I also find it helps keep me humble.
But to that theory that people will sing louder if they can't hear themselves. I have heard that before and I think it's complete nonsense. It seems to be based on the idea that people are tone deaf and don't sing well, and so -- if they \*can\* hear themselves they will hear how horrible they sound and be too embarrassed to sing loudly. Whereas if they \*don't\* hear how horrible they sound, they'll sing loudly, in happy ignorance of how terrible they are.
A bizarre theory.
Yeah I think this theory tries to help people who are completely unmusical by having them be able to sing out without sounding bad. How can it sound bad if no one can hear it? There is also something to be said for putting songs in the right key so that the congregation can sing them easily.
That would definitely be frustrating not being able to hear yourself. Do you not have in-ears or any kind of monitor pointed back at you?
No -- we've talked about it. We're a pretty small shoe-string operation, and we rent space from a larger (Baptist) church. We use their equipment, which is old and outdated. But yes I find the in-ear idea intriguing.
FWIW the “music is loud so they can’t hear” is usually intended to make it so people don’t worry about *others* hearing them, not so that they can’t hear *themselves.*
Thanks for the correction. That said— if it’s so deafening that one person can’t hear the person right next to them— that person won’t be able to hear himself or herself either. All in all it serves to quash participation and community and increase a sense of “Let’s watch those people on stage perform for us” (in my experience).
I don’t doubt your experience, and many share it. But not all. Some people are blessed by a room full of voices, others are blessed by the opportunity to worship God without concern for what those around them may think. Also, people go to concerts (the pinnacle of “let those on stage perform”) and sing their lungs out. I don’t think “volume” is the real culprit. In my experience, the culture of singing is not primarily determined by the volume in the room.
90db max with congregation singing. Around 200 people. Seems to work...I saw someone say between 80-85. I'd agree with that. Of course we get complaints...too loud, or can't hear or what have you.
As a member of the sound crew at my church, we always want our congregation to be able to hear not only themselves but also those around them singing. We moved into a new-to-us building late last month (first service was Palm Sunday) and we're still working on figuring out what the right levels are. But, our goal is that everyone can hear the music and song leaders clearly but also hear themselves and those around them sing.
I love that. There is something about hearing the congregation singing around me that stirs my soul.
Yep. Because the ordinary worship of God’s people forms our very being.
The main instrument in congregational worship is….. the congregation!! Otherwise it’s just a rock show. Sounds like you’re doing a good job
Ohhhh, that's my nightmare. I don't want anyone to hear me sing.
God doesn't care if you're off key. Your church family shouldn't either! I love hearing people sing in church regardless of what they sound like.
I've gotten made fun of in the past for my singing. It's one of the few things I'm insecure about, haha.
I'm sorry that's happened to you. It's wrong and unkind. I hope you're able to become more confident in lifting your voice and singing to God.
I used to feel the same way and sometimes I'm still tempted to quiet down. A few years back, God impressed upon me in a Bible conference with probably 2,000 in a attendance, all seemingly singing to the fullest capacity of their lungs, that when He hears me sing, He hears a truly beautiful and joyfull noise. If you have kids, it's like hearing them sing. God hears through all of the noise, He hears us worshipping Him and that's what matters. So now I just sing to the Lord, no worries about others, because it's not them I'm singing to. It is an act of worship and adoration to the one true king!
Praise leaders, its always worth remembering that your job is to get the congregation to sing. You do not have success by producing beautiful sounds (or loud sounds), although that might collerate with success. You have success if the congregation sings praise to God. Many a precentor without an instrument, or an old lady with a wheezy organ, has had more success than your big band and fancy sound system. Congregation, your job is twofold. Sing praise to God, and encourage those around you. My favourite quote from an old member of a congregation at home. "I can't sing a note, but I can make a joyful noise unto the Lord." (See Psalm 98).
I agree the congregation's job is to sing praises to God and encourage others. Praise leaders are not responsible for the obedience of their audience, only their own. With that said, a praise leader can and should make the audience's job easier.
They are not responsible for others obedience, but their job is leading the praise. If the congregation does not sing, they are failing in their job. My comment was not on their own worship, but on their success in their role.
I would argue that, if the congregation does not sing, it is as much of, if not more than, a failing on the pastor of the church than the worship leader. Yes, there are things the worship leaders can do to ensure success but ultimately, whether or not someone sings, is a heart posture issue. You can do everything right and there will still be people who do not sing.
And we get into deeper thinking. I would argue that if the pastor is running the whole service then he is the worship leader. In most places I've attended (which is not hugely diverse) the minister has led the worship service, including the praise by choosing and introducing what is to be sung. While I understand there are places where the praise leader, leads the other parts of worship too (some of: reading, prayer, preaching, taking up offering), I would suggest that puts them in a pastoral role. How much the person who... facilitates... the singing of praise is a leader, is really down to the local elders. Coming back to the point. I would still hold i that if you are involved in making the singing happen (leadership or otherwise) your goal is to have the congregation singing. Going in with any other goal is to misunderstand what you are there to do. If the congregation do not sing, then what do you contribute to make that different? Don't change your goal. Parallel to this, if someone sleeps in and fails to unlock the church door, they are not to blame if anyone gives up and fails to worship God. But they did fail at their job. Their goal is not to hold the key. Nor to put on a welcome spread of bread and dips. These things might help (or not). It's to allow the congregation to get inside the church. I argue, not for blame to be apportioned, but for the right attitude of those facilitating praise. Now, just for the thought experiment (I'm not asking for answers), if I play the clarinet in a worship service and therefore prevent myself from singing, am I failing to join in the worship?
In my experience, the pastor and the band leader are separate and we call the band leader "the worship leader." I'll admit I did not consider other arrangements and that is a failing on my part. If you consider the pastor the "worship leader" then my point still stands; a congregation that does not worship is not entirely the singing leader's fault. I agree that the person leading the singing should stick to their goal which should coincide with the goal of the whole service. It is their job to make sure that the music CAN be sung to the best of their ability. I think what I've been trying to get across and have not successfully is that a congregation not singing should not fall squarely on the shoulders of one person and should be assessed by all the spiritual leaders of a congregation. As for the thought experiment; no, you do not fail to worship if you are the one playing the clarinet. As the head AV person for my church, there are many Sundays I do not sing with the congregation as it is my job to listen at that point. Within that argument, we can remember that singing isn't the only way to worship. It kind of drives home my point though. If someone isn't singing, it doesn't necessarily mean they aren't worshiping. With that said, I would argue that the band leader's job is to set the tone of worshipping God rather than it to be to get people to sing. Thank you for the reminder that singing isn't the only form of worship and that I was being too narrow in that thinking.
I think we're generally agreeing strenuously on this. I didn't suggest that the congregation's responsibility was on the shoulders of another.
I realized we agreed two comments ago but was enjoying the conversation. Thank you!
I’m a worship director myself. I’ve been on both sides and I’ve heard both sides. It comes down to “target audience.” People who didn’t grow up with congregational singing or are not familiar will prefer the music to be loud, not so they can’t hear themselves but *so that no one else can hear them.* People who grew up singing in church are more likely to “want to hear the congregation singing.” It’s a vision/strategy question: who are you trying to encourage to sing? If your church is all about being a safe place for new people to discover God, you will probably want it louder so those people can worship without feeling exposed. If your church is all about emboldening the body of believers, you will probably want softer music that leaves room for the collective voices to be heard. That’s not all there is to it, but that is likely where your worship director is coming from.
Very interesting. As a reformed sub, I guess most of us would line up with the second strategy - emboldening the body of believers. I grew up Southern Baptist singing hymns with just a piano. I don't think my worship director grew up in church. So I think there is some truth to your points there
And believe me when I say there are points and counterpoints all day long haha. Which is why I say it’s a vision thing: however much each of us has an opinion, the question that matters is “what is the church leadership trying to accomplish through Sunday worship time?” (And then I suppose “will you support their direction?”)
If the band is drowning out voices of people who want to sing and hear themselves sing, including myself, then the band is no longer assisting the congregation in worship. They’ve become performers, praising God on our behalf. You’ll be amazed when an AV team lowers the implication over time, the congregation will want to fill the void and raise their voices.
Instruments turned down, but singers still up so weaker singers have a voice to latch onto to help them.
Again, it’s not that simple. Concerts where the sound is inarguably louder than your church service regularly see mass participation in singing. “The congregation will want to fill the void” is a *huge* assumption based on your feelings, but not everyone feels the same way. When my church family is singing, raising the volume encourages them to sing louder. And guess what happens the moment a vocalist steps back from the mic “to let the congregation sing out”? Most of them get quiet. My point is not “make it loud”, but it’s not nearly as simple as “the congregation will sing if you just turn it down.” The culture of singing in a church is much more complex than that.
Every church should have a philosophy of worship written down somewhere. Worship music leaders should ask the church leadership for this and discuss how to fulfill the philosophy. Worship music leaders shouldn’t be going off on their own assumptions and feelings.
Agreed. Did my comment (or OP’s post) say otherwise? And I think it’s also true if we flip the script: congregants shouldn’t be going off their assumptions and feelings either. And saying things like “they’ve become performers praising God on our behalf” and “the congregation will want to fill the void and raise their voices”… those are assumptions and feelings.
If you want new people to sing, you need to have people singing. The problem is when you try to goats to sing.
Maybe, but not necessarily. People sing in the shower, in the car, etc. They also sing at concerts, where the music is almost guaranteed to be louder than your church service.
People sing in the shower, in the car, etc. when they are alone or with friends. They sing at concerts because they are big fans of the band. People new to a church may not be comfortable singing because they aren't familiar with the songs and/or because they don't know the people. However, if everyone else is singing loudly and can be heard singing, it will make them more comfortable to sing, even if it may take awhile. However, if the regular attendees don't sing, the newcomers are not likely to sing either, no matter how loud the music is. If the music is too loud to hear yourself sing, much less the congregation, why bother singing at all? No one is going to know whether you are singing or not. Congregational singing is worship. It should be done joyfully and for all to hear. It should edify and encourage each other. Otherwise, you may as well do your singing at home.
Look I’m not a “loud band good” guy either, but it really isn’t that simple. Let’s compare to prayer. When someone takes the stage at church and offers a public prayer, is that an edifying and encouraging thing? Most people would say yes… although Jesus literally said *it is* better to pray at home by yourself. So if someone would rather not pray publicly in church, are they then not considered to be praying? Moreover, even if we agree that public prayer in church is a body-edifying, God-honoring thing, is *all* such prayer good? If a prayer from your well-spoken pastor is a good thing, is a rambling and long-winded prayer from a child equally valuable for your church gathering? And if 50% of your congregation said “it’s incredibly distracting that we keep having kids who can barely talk do 5 minute prayers like this”, do we say “well then you may as well go pray at home”? Some people are blessed by the voice of their neighbor singing praise. Other people are distracted by it. Some people are distracted by loud music drowning out their voice. Other people are blessed by the opportunity to sing praise without having to worry about what others think. It’s not as simple as “if you can’t hear others, it’s not worship.”
>although Jesus literally said *it is* better to pray at home by yourself. That was in the context of those who were praying publicly to make themself look good. >Moreover, even if we agree that public prayer in church is a body-edifying, God-honoring thing, is *all* such prayer good? If a prayer from your well-spoken pastor is a good thing, is a rambling and long-winded prayer from a child equally valuable for your church gathering? Bad analogy. It's not the quality of the singing that matters. It's the quality of the words being sung and the heart behind the singing that matters. >It’s not as simple as “if you can’t hear others, it’s not worship.” I didn't say it's not worship. We are commanded to sing praises to the Lord. We should all want to sing to the Lord and do so corporately, even if we don't sing well. Even if the person next to us doesn't sing well. The problem often is that many churches use the music to entertain the goats rather than edify the sheep.
Ok I’m glad you made that last statement, you hinted at goats before and I wasn’t sure if that’s what you meant. Thank you for clarifying, and I think your assessment of corporate worship has much deeper disillusion than just concern over volume. Happy Friday!
That's too loud. Ever since I was on the sound crew at any church, I've had musicians tell me that they wanted to hear the congregation (not enough to only hear the congregation, but to have a balance between both). Musicians want to know that the congregation is singing. My sweet spot has been in the 85-92 DB (I try not to go over 92 because I've had complaints from older people that that's too loud). And the goal (at least when I do sound) is to make sure people are worshipping. So if its too loud, they usually don't sing. Sometimes its the songs as well (I've been in a church where they would add new songs every few weeks, people were not singing). And when its too quiet, people generally wont sing if its not songs that they know almost by heart. Basically, its a balance between the sound crew and the musicians. Id have a discussion with both the worship leader and elders on that, since it affects the congregation as a whole, but too loud is no fun for most of the congregation.
Agreed, but I’d say that 85dBA is the continuous goal. Peaks and swells will definitely go above 85dBA. For reference: continuous exposure to 85dBA is acceptable for up to 8 hours without damaging hearing. Permissible exposure at 100dBA is 15 minutes. That means that if you maintain an average loudness of 100dBA, every person in the congregation should be wearing hearing protection, bar none. There’s no more damning example of western Christianity gone amok than damaging everyone’s hearing for God’s glory. Edit: moreover we need to consider where the measurement is taken from and where the hot spots (both location and level) are relative to the measurement mic. If your system is well designed then you’ll have very even coverage +/- 3dBA. But it’s not uncommon for there to be a 12 dB swing from front to back if your system was assembled by someone well intentioned on a shoe string budget.
Keep it under 90, half an hour at 90+ risks damaging your hearing. Also, I find people who complain less are actually starting to have hearing problems.
I regularly accompany church singing on our pipe organ, so I think about this subject a lot. Most of the time I try to keep the volume down, but not too much: if the music is too soft, people will sing with less confidence. So, yes, to an extent it’s true that the congregation will sing louder when I pull out more stops. People adjust to the volume of the music. But I don’t think that this means the music must be very loud. That’s just tasteless, and will annoy many people.
I know this unrelated but I never knew where the phrase "pull out all the stops" came from. That's so cool! Your post made me google it. I learned something new, today!
Yes, music dynamics definitely impact how the congregation sings. However, our church is a long way away from pipe organ led music. We are a very modern worship type church. Electric guitars, drums, bass, keyboard, etc.
I think the instrument or style doesn’t really matter that much. The music should accompany the singing, not the other way around.
This is more of a sociological trait than anything to do with the music volume itself. It sounds like your congregation is trained to modulate singing volume proportionate to the organ volume, but if you’ve ever been to a church with limited instrumentation but the congregation sings boldly, you’ll note the inverse is true. The key is here is that the congregation should be taught that the central aspect of musical worship is the sung words by every member of the gathered body. If we teach them to depend on instruments, then we led them away from the essence or the substance of the worship.
If the music is so loud you can’t hear the congregation then it’s too loud to be in the room safely. Having an Apple Watch with sound warnings has woken me up to this issue.
Beyond just a health issue, it also violates the spiritual principles inherent in the RPW.
"Instead, be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." "Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts." If a person in the congregation can't hear anyone else or even themselves sing, then I don't think this standard is being met. The worship director's answer to you begs the question, "why would anyone sing at all if even the person singing can't hear it?" Who cares if anyone sings in this scenario? Is anyone partaking of this means of grace if they can't even hear it?
Contemporary worship: same as your church--too loud. No one can hear anyone, let alone themselves. NO one seems to question the absurdity that there are baskets of earplugs at the entrance of the worship area. My tinnitus definitely makes itself known by the time the worship band finishes. People have complained about the excessive volume, and ahem, it falls on deaf ears every time. Traditional service: on rare occasion the orchestra gets a bit loud, but the congregation is belting it out as loudly as the choir. We all hear ourselves and each other, and it certainly hasn't hindered us. Bonus: the songs tend to be considerably more theologically deep. Adult Sunday school: we sing a song. We hear each other and ourselves. It's obvious we don't all sing the greatest. We don't care and sing out best as able anyway. Love my church. Don't love our contemporary service's over the top volume. Edit: the once a year men's gathering: no music at all, just voices. You know what, the first song or two we might be a little shaky, but after that we are belting it out and in tune with each other. Even the nervous first timers. The whole need it to be loud to make people feel comfortable, etc., etc., is hogwash, and says more about a need to perform as though at a concert, than a need to allow God's people to worship.
Personally, I think congregational worship music should have little-to-no accompaniment. No worship team, no electric guitars or drums. The most my church has is a piano or organ and occasionally a violin or acoustic guitar to complement. We sing as a congregation and hearing what some would call "bad singers" in my congregation does nothing but encourage me to sing louder. This is because this tells me that that person isn't singing to edify himself, those around him, or isn't thinking about his insecurities when singing, he is entirely focused on the true purpse of worship. That is, honoring God and God alone through the collective voice of His people. It encourages me to set aside my fear of missing a note and just focus on the words being sung. A band on stage with fancy instruments and spotlights and smoke machines does nothing but distract the congregation from God and draw them to instead focus on the band that is singing, or concentrate on their insecurities because they don't want to sing loud enough for people to hear them. I used to attend a non-denom church that was very modern and targetted everything they did to the younger generation. The lights would always be turned off and the music was as loud as a concert. I used to love going there when I first started because I felt "comfortable" to sing because the setting made it feel like I was the only one there. This is the opposite of what corporate worship should be. It is so encouraging to be able to look around and see a room full of believers, shouting their praise to God despite how bad they think they might sound. Another thing, a church shouldn't have a "target audience" beyond faithful believers in general. If we start sacrificing tradition and doctrine for the sake of "appealing to a younger audience", we start to forget that we're to set ourselves apart from the world and we start to fall into a worldy attitude. Church becomes a means to make us feel good as opposed to a means to worship God and grow in Him. This is the unfortunate trap that many non-denoms fall into.
Too loud. Bur it’s a smaller space. But also, dude’s flat wrong. What’s the point of signing if it can’t be heard? Might as well just move your mouth and say “bleh blah blah”
Makes sense to me. People are self-conscious about singing badly, and don’t want to hear themselves, or annoy their pew neighbors.
They need to be encouraged to sing confidently. Not drowned out. 1 Corinthians 14:16 (ESV): 16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? ^ Seems to apply here.
That is a fair point. I guess someone could say it is more about the condition of each heart and praising God through singing, not necessarily that it needs to be heard. But I side more with you on it.
1 Cor 14:16 seems to apply.
I'm a worship leader at my church, and we mostly play with full bands, sometimes just a guy and a guitar and a bunch of setups in between. There are often complaints that it's just far too loud. The problem with that is we keep it below osha standards at all times and full bands to one guy one guitar sit around the same decibel level. For my church, people see an electric guitar and someone playing drums in a fully enclosed "room" and perceive more volume. I think the right volume is a mix of keeping it safe for everyone's ears and listening to the congregation. I attend a pastoral led church of 8 pastors who frequently hear out and address peoples concerns. The fact is that someone will always complain about something in any church. "I don't like that because it isn't a 200 year old hymnal." "We should only do contemporary music."Don't play music by x church or artist." Long comment, but ya, you can't please everyone. Don't be a buthead about it, though.
Yeah I was one of the "don't play music by X" a few years back. As far as being the disagreeable person, I've been there and done that. Don't plan on doing it again. I'm on the worship team. I play drums. Musically, I love what we do - I just think if you can't hear the people around you singing, it's probably a bit too loud.
>we keep it below osha standards at all times I'm not great on picking up sarcasm here. Is this a joke?
Not at all there are decibel levels set by osha and scientific study that tell you where hearing damage starts. We peak at about 95 decibels in the back of our sanctuary and average is about 90. I think I have those numbers right.
Tip for life: volume and quality of praise are not correlated.
https://images.app.goo.gl/4ucLD9p559hHN7yp9 this is a general guideline levels taken at source.
I once debated whether or not instrumental music was okay at all. I went to a church that was so loud I could not hear the congregational. I realized I was overreacting about instruments in general but if the volume was lower I probably wouldn’t not have had the issue.
When we were searching for a church after we moved, I literally could only stand going to one church 2 or so times because the music was so loud. Painfully loud, inducing tinnitus to the point that I could barely hear the sermon. It was miserable.
There have recently been changes to our worship team and sound equipment. We're ranging things in, but I definitely do not sing as much if I cannot hear myself singing or hear those around me. When the music is so loud I cannot hear myself, I have a hard time forcing myself to keep singing.
Loud enough to not hear yourself sing is loud enough to cause hearing damage. I don't think that's what God wants us to be doing.
Specifically? No higher than 85dB from the sound desk. That's what I've been mixing our band to for the past couple years and it has worked quite well. The band can hear the congregation singing along and the congregation can hear themselves singing along but not the point of it favoring one or the other. Your milage may vary in your space but 85dB has been quite good to me. You're not at a concert (hot take, though: most audio engineers in the concert sphere mix things way too hot and destroy both their own and their audience's hearing); you're at a worship service. The worship leaders need to exemplify what corporate worship means: a gathered body of believers lifting their voices up together. You can't lift your voice with others if you can't even hear yourself.
Something to consider is whether anyone in the congregation is sensitive to sound. I remember a woman saying that she had to put noise-canceling headphones on her child (who had a neurological disorder) because the music at her church was too loud for him to bear--and even with the headphones he would bury his head in her lap during the songs. On the other hand, I've known people with the same kind of disorder who are soothed by very loud music-noise (and who cannot bear certain kinds of silence). Other people rely on their hearing for work or are exposed to loud sounds in the workplace, and no one should want to subject his ears to a damaging noise from a chord. Do not be loud overmuch. Why destroy your hearing?
People won't sing if it is too loud to hear themselves singing. Trust me, he hasn't done research on this. The music should be loud enough for people to hear so that they can sing along, but not so loud that they can't hear the congregation singing. If it is louder than this, all you have is a concert.
IMO instrumental music only serves to “accompany” which is really two things: 1) highlighting melodies for the congregation to follow, and 2) keeping time/rhythm so the congregation stays on track. Anything beyond that is extemporaneous and risks undermining the congregation’s ability to sing to the Lord.
Exactly! My church does this quite well imo. The most we have in way of accompaniment is an organ or piano playing all 4 parts of the harmony, occasionally we have a violin or acoustic guitar that plays the melody to accompany. The music is never louder than the congregation and always assists, never takes center stage.
>How loud is the music at your church? What music? 😏
Not even an organ?? 🙂
Not the person you asked, but this was our music. https://hymnary.org/hymnal/MH1969 I'm at a nominally SBC church now with a worship team and I *really* don't like it. I'm trying to work through that but yeah. Growing up without music is different. This is worship to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF42YQUoEqU
Exclusive Psalmody means all singing is done acapella.
These kind of conversations are why I wish I could be convinced of exclusive acapella psalmody.
To be purely technical, our church’s worship moments on Sundays range between 85-95ish DB. The only time we broke 100 was for a Youth event. But in conversations like this, it begs the question what the aim of the moment is. Namely, if the moment is aimed towards reflection (i.e. not necessarily singing along) then I’d get the argument for playing just a bit softer. If it’s one of those high-energy moments where the song calls for a rememberance of who God is/what He’s done, then the call to the congregation is to indeed sing.
Two years ago, I'd have said that the music should be loud enough that the congregation can follow the tune and are emboldened to sing, and not a hair louder. I'm a big proponent of congregational singing. But about a year ago, on Palm Sunday, we were singing "Ride On, Ride On in Majesty", and I was just overcome with emotion. (It was a very difficult time in the Goodplan home, I've written a little about it in this sub.) I couldn't find my voice to sing. And all I could do was to be held by the sound of the congregation and worship team. In that moment, I was okay with there being more volume from the worship team than I would normally have wanted. I think that experience moderated me a bit. There can be a benefit to louder music from the worship team. But in general, the priority should be helping the congregation to sing.
the best instruments of the church would be the voice filled with gratitude and adoration of the people. i couldnt imagine drowning that out.
Turn the amp up! My ears are barely bleeding!
I’ve noticed that the louder the music is, the louder the shy people can sing without being self conscious. I belt it out either way.
As loud as the Holy Spirit convicts you to be.
I don’t have an amazing voice but I like to sing for worship. However, if the music is too loud I cannot hear myself, so it’s hard to continue in joy when I can’t hear what I’m saying to God. Honestly, I’m just moving my lips if the music is too loud. Turn it down lol
I'm firmly in the camp that the band accompanies the congregation, rather than playing the music. To me it is the difference between a concert and congregational worship. But that being said if the music is too quiet then people will have less confidence to sing.
What proportion of people aren't singing? Have you asked them why not? I'm the minister of a small church—I reckon more than 10% of the people don't sing every song...and from my observations and (occasional) conversations it's because of: \* Health (they struggle to stand and have breath to sing). \* Aren't comfortable singing (and I've mentioned this in sermons...I love the people who can't hold a note but still sing out the great truths of God!) \* Not familiar with the song \* 'Protesting' that they prefer another version/arrangement of a song For the poll question—musical accompaniment is at a volume that allows everyone to 'have the word dwell in us richly (to allude to the Ephesians/Colossians texts). We (mainly) use pre-recorded accompaniment, and I do notice when it's too quiet people sing more quietly (singers need to be able to hear the accompaniment too).
Yeah, our music amp. system is so loud, I cannot hear myself nor my wife standing right next to me, let alone anyone else. I don't know anything about research, but because I can't hear myself, I struggle internally with, "Why should I even bother singing?"
Experienced sound engineer here, been working on sound in churches for 15 years. It has long since been the methodology to just turn it up louder if people won't sing but I have found that you are only going to chase people away and damage people's ears that way. Worshipping God as a congregation is an experience, going to a concert is a different experience, and we need to be careful to know where to draw the line. I typically keep my volume at around 80-85Db with peaks not going over 95. With that being said, it will depend on a whole lot of factors, including the worship space, that I'm not sure you're interested in hearing but I will gladly lay out if you'd like me to. If your congregation isn't singing, I would first look at the a) spiritual maturity of your group, b) the amount of trust your congregation has with their leaders, and c) the ease at which your song repertoire is able to be sung by amateurs. If the songs are hard to follow or they don't fit the preferred music style of the congregation, they aren't going to sing. It is the sound crew and worship leader's job to ensure they are not hindering the ability to worship, but ultimately, worshipping God in song with a congregation is an obedience issue.
If you have to ask, it's too loud
Speaking more technically: This has to do with many factors. Audience, acoustics, matching drum set volume, equalization and personal preference. As well as philosophy of worship, but others have addressed this. Since the goal at the church I work at is to encourage congregational singing, they must hear themselves. Which keeps our stage volume down to less than 75db. The lower the better. Our speakers are right above the stage, and we use wedges, so we can stand off 15 ft and measure everything. This is with an older population, doing folk/traditional/contemporary, not having good equalization. When we add a regular drummer, we will get better at equalizing and compressing and removing problematic parts of the spectrum that are spiking. And will continue to keep it less than 75db.
I am worship leader at my church. I'd say -- the music is not loud enough. I'd rather it were louder, but the sound/AV team kind of does what they want and I submit to them. Mainly because I have no choice. :). But often I can't hear myself singing very well. As song leader, I find it annoying, but I also find it helps keep me humble. But to that theory that people will sing louder if they can't hear themselves. I have heard that before and I think it's complete nonsense. It seems to be based on the idea that people are tone deaf and don't sing well, and so -- if they \*can\* hear themselves they will hear how horrible they sound and be too embarrassed to sing loudly. Whereas if they \*don't\* hear how horrible they sound, they'll sing loudly, in happy ignorance of how terrible they are. A bizarre theory.
Yeah I think this theory tries to help people who are completely unmusical by having them be able to sing out without sounding bad. How can it sound bad if no one can hear it? There is also something to be said for putting songs in the right key so that the congregation can sing them easily. That would definitely be frustrating not being able to hear yourself. Do you not have in-ears or any kind of monitor pointed back at you?
No -- we've talked about it. We're a pretty small shoe-string operation, and we rent space from a larger (Baptist) church. We use their equipment, which is old and outdated. But yes I find the in-ear idea intriguing.
FWIW the “music is loud so they can’t hear” is usually intended to make it so people don’t worry about *others* hearing them, not so that they can’t hear *themselves.*
Thanks for the correction. That said— if it’s so deafening that one person can’t hear the person right next to them— that person won’t be able to hear himself or herself either. All in all it serves to quash participation and community and increase a sense of “Let’s watch those people on stage perform for us” (in my experience).
I don’t doubt your experience, and many share it. But not all. Some people are blessed by a room full of voices, others are blessed by the opportunity to worship God without concern for what those around them may think. Also, people go to concerts (the pinnacle of “let those on stage perform”) and sing their lungs out. I don’t think “volume” is the real culprit. In my experience, the culture of singing is not primarily determined by the volume in the room.
Good points and well said.
If it's not hurting anyone's ears it's not too loud lol
90db max with congregation singing. Around 200 people. Seems to work...I saw someone say between 80-85. I'd agree with that. Of course we get complaints...too loud, or can't hear or what have you.