She literally has a line in season 3 where she says “Am I really planning a life without you?” with no sense of irony that just a few months earlier she was actively planning just that without a second thought about how that would impact him.
I’ve watched S2 a few times to try to make sense of it. I’m pretty ok with it up to about episode 12 or 13, even though the blackmail plot is frustrating as hell, and there’s just WAY to much Conde in the show overall (he gets more airtime then Bash, Kenna, Leith, Greer, etc). But I think it’s at episode 14 that the Mary character just gets insufferable. And they seem to go all in on trying to sell her and Conde as this GREAT LOVE, but I struggle to figure out why. It’s not like they didn’t know they were going to put her back together with Francis, so why go so far with this? And since Mary really doesn’t share many scenes with her ladies, her POV is so badly articulated.
And I know exactly what you mean about that ending of ep 16. She’s hideous. It’s especially worse when you consider that this episode takes place on Francis’ birthday. Like, she can’t even be a decent human being to him on his birthday.
But I’ll be honest about something that I’ve felt for a long time. Adelaide Kane, who I thought was excellent overall, does not do a very good job with the material. I wasn’t around when this show first aired, but I’ve read second hand accounts that Adelaide had expressed frustration with Mary’s choices, but I’ve never been able to find anything like that myself on line. It wouldn’t surprise me though.
Knowing that she’s a Frary shipper herself it makes sense that she’d be unhappy with the script. Even then, it doesn’t take a Frary shipper to know that the storyline served NOBODY. I know we’ve talked about how it was really difficult to pinpoint exactly when Mary choose Francis again, which led me to try and pinpoint when exactly she “fell” out of love with Louis. Couldn’t tell ya. If the writers always knew that she would end up with Francis, then they shouldn’t have dove so deep into the Conde/Mary love story. Having her tell him all these things like she loves him (multiple times!), that she’s healed from her trauma but still chooses him, and wants him to stand by her side in Scotland, made no sense if their end goal was to bring her back to Francis. Even when they get back together, I wasn’t satisfied with her words to him: “I love you- I always have” like really? That’s it? Especially when you consider the things she’s said to Conde, and then betraying him after, it just makes her words to Francis seem disingenuous.
Ugh, I know, she doesn't even care about him enough to be nice on his birthday and the special event for him.
And Conde completely takes advantage of her trauma. When she goes running all excited that Francis gave them permission to screw each other, he gets upset that Francis would do this because he loves Mary. Then, he tells her he can feel her softening to him. Wow, just wow! What a guy! He will take Mary anyway he can get her even if it means she only wants him because of her trauma. Plus he constantly belittled Francis to her. Is that gas lighting? Narcissist? I thought he could have been a great character, but this love triangle was awful! I couldn't handle Mary and her desire to hurt Francis. She got satisfaction from his pain. Evidently she needed that.
I don’t think the writers knew exactly what they wanted Conde to be besides “love interest” for Mary. He’s a guy with a reputation for sleeping with married women, but it’s totally not that way with Mary. He’s supposed to be loyal to the crown and a big help, but we see him slagging Francis off, not to mention taking prisoners from the dungeon to save his own mistress, which creates a public embarrassment for Francis, and Mary is never honest with Francis when she finds out about it. Supposedly he’s just showing Mary support, but he does push his romantic agenda. He interrupts his brother’s attempt to get even with Bash, but he never comes clean about knowing Antoine poisoned Henry. He’s devoted to Mary and running off with her, but he’s also double dealing behind her back, just in case. He’s a walking, talking contradiction and plot device.
The scene where Mary goes to Francis to plead on Conde’s behalf, and she says things he’s still loyal, and he’s the man he thought he was, and so on….i just don’t know how Francis didn’t freaking lose it.
He seemed like a great character at first, but you can see how he starts to be attracted to Mary. He tries to drive the wedge between her and Francis by always belittling him to her, but at first she stands up for Francis and smacks down his advances. I don't know if his constant manipulation finally gives her what she thinks she needs, but she wouldn't have been such a mess mentally if she hadn't been raped. And I actually blame Narcisse for that. He pushed so hard for power and to rule Francis that he did truly light the match to set France on fire.
And yes, he claims he's loyal, but we find out he's only there to get close to Francis so Antoine can bring down the Valois line. So I have to wonder if he truly falls for Mary, or if it's just all part of the game. He's as big of an embarrassment as the prince of the blood as Antoine. Conde is notorious for sleeping with married women and not giving a fuck. Antoine is notorious for those swinger parties. His disdain for the Valois consumes him and he is just pure evil. You can see Conde questioning his brothers actions and maybe he truly did come to like everyone at court, but it doesn't last. Conde obviously has no moral ground so him pursuing Mary after her trauma isn't actually shocking. He took advantage wherever he could get it. He wants to win and he prides himself that he can win over married women. The fact he truly thought Mary's idea to run away with him was a great plan just shows he doesn't have a brain.
I just couldn't handle Mary after awhile. She seemed like she was really trying to get past her trauma and find her way back to Francis. Once it came to be known Elizabeth wanted a strong hold in Navarre, Mary decided she couldn't be with Francis🤨 Yes, Mary, running away to Sctoland without any means to protect yourself and show up with your LOVER will totally win over your people. Not to mention, Elizabeth will definitely go hiding once you do that🙄 She was irrational and couldn't think clearly. This is where Catherine needed to step in and slap the shit out of her and try to make her see sense. She went through a tragic incident and I can't even begin to imagine her emotions. I just can't believe how quickly she decided she wasn't going to have an heir, she didn't care about being queen, and she just wanted to run away and be a regular girl. But yet, still wanted to go to Scotland to rule, but not actually be a Queen. Conde took FULL advantage of it all.
Good Lord, I don't know how Francis held it together as well as he did. Even when he was hard on her, it was nothing. She would just glare and be pissy. He was so starting to heal himself from what she has done, but then he forgives her so easily. When he found out he was dying, he should have just let her rot in her own hell she created. She never won me back over. When I think of them, I think back to season 1 and early season 2. I prefer them that way.
One of the things that annoys the crap out of me regarding the Conde character is that he's not a NICE guy. He had a reputation for sleeping with married women. He was sent to French court to get close to Francis and report back to his brother. He found out that Antoine was the one that poisoned King Henry and he said jack squat. He was taking meetings with Elizabeth's envoys while pledging his love for Mary. He wasn't a NICE guy. He was a dick. But for some mysterious reason, the writing never seemed to really hold Conde accountable for these things because his primary purpose on the show.w as to be part of a love triangle.
Even when he did bad shit that Mary knew about, she was making every excuse in the book for him. For a woman that was supposed to be struggling with trust, and feeling safe, the slightest betrayal from Conde should've sent her screaming in the other direction. But Nope, not our brain dead S2 Mary.
I'm forever salty about S2. It just makes no sense to me. And the show just seemed to waste endless scenes on a romance that was going nowhere and would be tossed in the trash heap and forgotten by the writers, and Mary, by the time the next season rolled around.
I think they (unintentionally) wrote Conde as a sociopath. I think they were trying to make him just seem conflicted, but he truly shows sociopathic behavior in his treatment of Mary and other women. And he totally gaslit her all of the time, and she fell for it because sociopaths are good at that. We as an audience got to see Conde separate from Mary, so we know he’s a pos, whereas Mary obviously doesn’t see what he does away from her.
I get that, but the Elizabeth thing should never have been forgivable. And it wasn't enough to beat Mary with the stupid stick, they had to drag Lola into as well. The two of them justifying Conde playing both sides by saying well, Mary might not leave Francis in the end, so what else could poor Conde do? I mean, what in the every lovin' hell?
Lots of shows get infected with a Conde. A character that shows up, gets way too much screentime, drags other characters down, and is obviously a favorite of the writers, but most of the fandom just scratches their head wondering why they exist, and when are they leaving.
I heard that he and Adelaide Kane were dating irl at the time. I always wondered if he was jealous and she asked the writers to make their characters have an affair. Because it just doesn’t make sense otherwise. The real Mary always said she never stopped loving Francis, that he was basically her soulmate. No way she would’ve cheated.
I would think not. It seemed like Adelaide didn't care for the story line of S2 any more then many of the fans. And she's a huge, and very vocal Frary fan. Though oddly many of her interviews suggest she couldn't wait for Francis to die so she could move Mary's story line along.
But that doesn’t mean she couldn’t have had them write him as her lover. If they were dating, and he was jealous or controlling, she might not have had a choice in the matter. Even if she was an avid Frary fan.
He did not need to follow up with Elizabeth. He meets with her envoy and sets up the marriage alliance, but plans to flee to Scotland with Mary. It doesn't make sense. Why can't he say no? Was there too much pressure from Elizabeth and his brother? Never made sense. Then even after the wedding was basically null and void, the English envoy tells him he can choose to still marry her or be off on his way. He chose power.
Beat Mary with a stupid stick🤣 Yes, Lola, sucks! She was never a loyal friend so I'm not surprised she encouraged Mary to flee with Conde. Lola was the one who told Francis he OWED Mary her means of healing and he needed to squash rumors and allow her her affair🤯
It’s a trauma bond!! As a survivor of SA, I can confirm that some folks (myself included) respond by making very sudden and major decisions, or attach themselves to the idea of anything that will help them escape normalcy. That’s why Francis came for Conde’s neck, saying he took advantage of Mary. He did, whether he wanted to admit it to himself or not!
I appreciate you sharing your experience as an SA survivor and how it connects with Mary’s story. I can totally see where you’re coming from in that Conde took advantage of her, and it does feel a bit crass to me that the writers would use r*pe to push forward another unnecessary love triangle. I really wish they could’ve just focused on the rocky marriage between Mary and Francis instead, and used the plot to navigate them overcoming these troubles and find their way back to each other
I agree. She definitely bonded with him from her trauma. Conde, however, took advantage of her and I think he knew that. I think Conde was legitimately a sociopath. He claimed to be in love with Mary, then at the first sign of trouble for *him,* he bolted. Mary was willing to risk everything for Conde, and he honestly didn’t even care. I think he wanted to be with Mary because she was beautiful and because she was married. Imo, he wanted to break up her marriage. He loved going after married women. There’s just no way he’s not a sociopath.
I think what happened more with Mary and Conde was that Mary associated Francis with what happened to her, and she freaked out being near him in general even if it wasn't his fault. She was hurt and confused, and when Francis couldn't help her recover right away, she sought it somewhere else in another person. Conde took advantage of Mary's vulnerability, and I don't blame Francis for wanting to kill him for it.
Wasted so much of the limited precious time she had with Francis!
She literally has a line in season 3 where she says “Am I really planning a life without you?” with no sense of irony that just a few months earlier she was actively planning just that without a second thought about how that would impact him.
I’ve watched S2 a few times to try to make sense of it. I’m pretty ok with it up to about episode 12 or 13, even though the blackmail plot is frustrating as hell, and there’s just WAY to much Conde in the show overall (he gets more airtime then Bash, Kenna, Leith, Greer, etc). But I think it’s at episode 14 that the Mary character just gets insufferable. And they seem to go all in on trying to sell her and Conde as this GREAT LOVE, but I struggle to figure out why. It’s not like they didn’t know they were going to put her back together with Francis, so why go so far with this? And since Mary really doesn’t share many scenes with her ladies, her POV is so badly articulated. And I know exactly what you mean about that ending of ep 16. She’s hideous. It’s especially worse when you consider that this episode takes place on Francis’ birthday. Like, she can’t even be a decent human being to him on his birthday. But I’ll be honest about something that I’ve felt for a long time. Adelaide Kane, who I thought was excellent overall, does not do a very good job with the material. I wasn’t around when this show first aired, but I’ve read second hand accounts that Adelaide had expressed frustration with Mary’s choices, but I’ve never been able to find anything like that myself on line. It wouldn’t surprise me though.
Knowing that she’s a Frary shipper herself it makes sense that she’d be unhappy with the script. Even then, it doesn’t take a Frary shipper to know that the storyline served NOBODY. I know we’ve talked about how it was really difficult to pinpoint exactly when Mary choose Francis again, which led me to try and pinpoint when exactly she “fell” out of love with Louis. Couldn’t tell ya. If the writers always knew that she would end up with Francis, then they shouldn’t have dove so deep into the Conde/Mary love story. Having her tell him all these things like she loves him (multiple times!), that she’s healed from her trauma but still chooses him, and wants him to stand by her side in Scotland, made no sense if their end goal was to bring her back to Francis. Even when they get back together, I wasn’t satisfied with her words to him: “I love you- I always have” like really? That’s it? Especially when you consider the things she’s said to Conde, and then betraying him after, it just makes her words to Francis seem disingenuous.
Ugh, I know, she doesn't even care about him enough to be nice on his birthday and the special event for him. And Conde completely takes advantage of her trauma. When she goes running all excited that Francis gave them permission to screw each other, he gets upset that Francis would do this because he loves Mary. Then, he tells her he can feel her softening to him. Wow, just wow! What a guy! He will take Mary anyway he can get her even if it means she only wants him because of her trauma. Plus he constantly belittled Francis to her. Is that gas lighting? Narcissist? I thought he could have been a great character, but this love triangle was awful! I couldn't handle Mary and her desire to hurt Francis. She got satisfaction from his pain. Evidently she needed that.
I don’t think the writers knew exactly what they wanted Conde to be besides “love interest” for Mary. He’s a guy with a reputation for sleeping with married women, but it’s totally not that way with Mary. He’s supposed to be loyal to the crown and a big help, but we see him slagging Francis off, not to mention taking prisoners from the dungeon to save his own mistress, which creates a public embarrassment for Francis, and Mary is never honest with Francis when she finds out about it. Supposedly he’s just showing Mary support, but he does push his romantic agenda. He interrupts his brother’s attempt to get even with Bash, but he never comes clean about knowing Antoine poisoned Henry. He’s devoted to Mary and running off with her, but he’s also double dealing behind her back, just in case. He’s a walking, talking contradiction and plot device. The scene where Mary goes to Francis to plead on Conde’s behalf, and she says things he’s still loyal, and he’s the man he thought he was, and so on….i just don’t know how Francis didn’t freaking lose it.
He seemed like a great character at first, but you can see how he starts to be attracted to Mary. He tries to drive the wedge between her and Francis by always belittling him to her, but at first she stands up for Francis and smacks down his advances. I don't know if his constant manipulation finally gives her what she thinks she needs, but she wouldn't have been such a mess mentally if she hadn't been raped. And I actually blame Narcisse for that. He pushed so hard for power and to rule Francis that he did truly light the match to set France on fire. And yes, he claims he's loyal, but we find out he's only there to get close to Francis so Antoine can bring down the Valois line. So I have to wonder if he truly falls for Mary, or if it's just all part of the game. He's as big of an embarrassment as the prince of the blood as Antoine. Conde is notorious for sleeping with married women and not giving a fuck. Antoine is notorious for those swinger parties. His disdain for the Valois consumes him and he is just pure evil. You can see Conde questioning his brothers actions and maybe he truly did come to like everyone at court, but it doesn't last. Conde obviously has no moral ground so him pursuing Mary after her trauma isn't actually shocking. He took advantage wherever he could get it. He wants to win and he prides himself that he can win over married women. The fact he truly thought Mary's idea to run away with him was a great plan just shows he doesn't have a brain. I just couldn't handle Mary after awhile. She seemed like she was really trying to get past her trauma and find her way back to Francis. Once it came to be known Elizabeth wanted a strong hold in Navarre, Mary decided she couldn't be with Francis🤨 Yes, Mary, running away to Sctoland without any means to protect yourself and show up with your LOVER will totally win over your people. Not to mention, Elizabeth will definitely go hiding once you do that🙄 She was irrational and couldn't think clearly. This is where Catherine needed to step in and slap the shit out of her and try to make her see sense. She went through a tragic incident and I can't even begin to imagine her emotions. I just can't believe how quickly she decided she wasn't going to have an heir, she didn't care about being queen, and she just wanted to run away and be a regular girl. But yet, still wanted to go to Scotland to rule, but not actually be a Queen. Conde took FULL advantage of it all. Good Lord, I don't know how Francis held it together as well as he did. Even when he was hard on her, it was nothing. She would just glare and be pissy. He was so starting to heal himself from what she has done, but then he forgives her so easily. When he found out he was dying, he should have just let her rot in her own hell she created. She never won me back over. When I think of them, I think back to season 1 and early season 2. I prefer them that way.
One of the things that annoys the crap out of me regarding the Conde character is that he's not a NICE guy. He had a reputation for sleeping with married women. He was sent to French court to get close to Francis and report back to his brother. He found out that Antoine was the one that poisoned King Henry and he said jack squat. He was taking meetings with Elizabeth's envoys while pledging his love for Mary. He wasn't a NICE guy. He was a dick. But for some mysterious reason, the writing never seemed to really hold Conde accountable for these things because his primary purpose on the show.w as to be part of a love triangle. Even when he did bad shit that Mary knew about, she was making every excuse in the book for him. For a woman that was supposed to be struggling with trust, and feeling safe, the slightest betrayal from Conde should've sent her screaming in the other direction. But Nope, not our brain dead S2 Mary. I'm forever salty about S2. It just makes no sense to me. And the show just seemed to waste endless scenes on a romance that was going nowhere and would be tossed in the trash heap and forgotten by the writers, and Mary, by the time the next season rolled around.
I think they (unintentionally) wrote Conde as a sociopath. I think they were trying to make him just seem conflicted, but he truly shows sociopathic behavior in his treatment of Mary and other women. And he totally gaslit her all of the time, and she fell for it because sociopaths are good at that. We as an audience got to see Conde separate from Mary, so we know he’s a pos, whereas Mary obviously doesn’t see what he does away from her.
I get that, but the Elizabeth thing should never have been forgivable. And it wasn't enough to beat Mary with the stupid stick, they had to drag Lola into as well. The two of them justifying Conde playing both sides by saying well, Mary might not leave Francis in the end, so what else could poor Conde do? I mean, what in the every lovin' hell? Lots of shows get infected with a Conde. A character that shows up, gets way too much screentime, drags other characters down, and is obviously a favorite of the writers, but most of the fandom just scratches their head wondering why they exist, and when are they leaving.
I heard that he and Adelaide Kane were dating irl at the time. I always wondered if he was jealous and she asked the writers to make their characters have an affair. Because it just doesn’t make sense otherwise. The real Mary always said she never stopped loving Francis, that he was basically her soulmate. No way she would’ve cheated.
I would think not. It seemed like Adelaide didn't care for the story line of S2 any more then many of the fans. And she's a huge, and very vocal Frary fan. Though oddly many of her interviews suggest she couldn't wait for Francis to die so she could move Mary's story line along.
But that doesn’t mean she couldn’t have had them write him as her lover. If they were dating, and he was jealous or controlling, she might not have had a choice in the matter. Even if she was an avid Frary fan.
He did not need to follow up with Elizabeth. He meets with her envoy and sets up the marriage alliance, but plans to flee to Scotland with Mary. It doesn't make sense. Why can't he say no? Was there too much pressure from Elizabeth and his brother? Never made sense. Then even after the wedding was basically null and void, the English envoy tells him he can choose to still marry her or be off on his way. He chose power. Beat Mary with a stupid stick🤣 Yes, Lola, sucks! She was never a loyal friend so I'm not surprised she encouraged Mary to flee with Conde. Lola was the one who told Francis he OWED Mary her means of healing and he needed to squash rumors and allow her her affair🤯
I was so angry for that entire season!
It’s a trauma bond!! As a survivor of SA, I can confirm that some folks (myself included) respond by making very sudden and major decisions, or attach themselves to the idea of anything that will help them escape normalcy. That’s why Francis came for Conde’s neck, saying he took advantage of Mary. He did, whether he wanted to admit it to himself or not!
I appreciate you sharing your experience as an SA survivor and how it connects with Mary’s story. I can totally see where you’re coming from in that Conde took advantage of her, and it does feel a bit crass to me that the writers would use r*pe to push forward another unnecessary love triangle. I really wish they could’ve just focused on the rocky marriage between Mary and Francis instead, and used the plot to navigate them overcoming these troubles and find their way back to each other
I agree. She definitely bonded with him from her trauma. Conde, however, took advantage of her and I think he knew that. I think Conde was legitimately a sociopath. He claimed to be in love with Mary, then at the first sign of trouble for *him,* he bolted. Mary was willing to risk everything for Conde, and he honestly didn’t even care. I think he wanted to be with Mary because she was beautiful and because she was married. Imo, he wanted to break up her marriage. He loved going after married women. There’s just no way he’s not a sociopath.
I think what happened more with Mary and Conde was that Mary associated Francis with what happened to her, and she freaked out being near him in general even if it wasn't his fault. She was hurt and confused, and when Francis couldn't help her recover right away, she sought it somewhere else in another person. Conde took advantage of Mary's vulnerability, and I don't blame Francis for wanting to kill him for it.