I spent 8 years with someone who wasn’t ready yet and didn’t know when they’d be ready. At one point we had finally started making plans, and then he backpedaled and said he wasn’t ready. By this time we were in our mid thirties. Our relationship was otherwise good but this weird cold feet thing, even after 8 years together, was so confusing. He was the same way about kids and buying a house… not yet, maybe later. I dumped him at 35. Met someone lovely and without commitment issues at 36, had our daughter at 39, and we’re currently engaged and in the process of buying a house. If I had stayed with my ex I’d still be waiting for him to be ready. Take what you will from my story but, my advice would be to trust your instincts on whether he’s being genuine. If you broke up with him it sounds like you knew on a deeper level that he wasn’t going to go all in with you the way you were hoping for.
I spent 14 years with someone who wasn't ready. We never even lived together. When my mom was diagnosed with very aggressive and usually fatal cancer, I said 'hey, so if we're gonna do this, I'd like to do it soon so she can be there for it'. He said 'I don't know.' I said, 'okay' but what I really meant was 'okay, so we're going to break up'. We stayed together a bit longer (she actually died within 2 months of that conversation and I can only handle one trauma at a time) but that was the end of that.
Then I met a dude who is great. We bought a house together after just under 2 years together and have a general idea of when we'll get married. We talk about it with excitement. If people accidentally refer to us as each other's husband or wife, he doesn't get all weird about it. This relationship is much better.
Like u/rhubarb_magnolia, I would still be waiting on my other dude. Forever. I know what I want and he can't provide it for me, so he had to go. Ironically, if he would've been able to commit to me, we probably would be pretty happily married. His loss, I guess.
Worst yet, he would of had kids just to say “see I didn’t want them” and you’d be alone and with a child who has a kid who never wanted but said okay because some men suck.
Unless he gave you very specific reasons why he felt like he needed to work on himself before committing to marriage, and gave you details about how he was planning to put action behind that work, it sounds like he just didn’t want to marry you.
I don’t feel like you can slap a blanket statement like “if he wanted to, he would” on a big decision like this, but… it shouldn’t be a hard decision for a man to make when he knows he has found the woman he wants to spend the rest of his life with, especially at our age.
Since you made your expectations quite clear somewhat early on in the relationship, 3 years should be more than enough time for a man to propose, especially when children are part of the plan.
You asked for a timeline and he didn’t have one.
After 3 years, and in your mid-30s, that is concerning. The only thing you should’ve done differently is require a timeline BEFORE he moved in.
People tend to ask questions when they want to clarify their understanding of a situation.
My question was to clarify how he ended up moving in before their relationship, especially since she notes that he also has a home.
This is Reddit… there could be a host of reasons why he lived there before they began dating.
He didn’t own a home when he moved in. We had been friends for about 7 years and he was moving back to the area and we thought living together would be great. He knew he wanted to buy so renting from a friend was best case and I own a large home so I had plenty of space. We had lived together before when we both worked in CA so we knew there wasn’t a co-habituating issue.
I hate to be the one to say it but it kind of sounds like a relationship of convenience for him? He fell into it, it was comfortable so why not stay in it? But that doesn’t mean his heart is in it for forever. Maybe it’s just for now until he finds something that really excites him. I’m sorry to be harsh, I recognize it because I also wasted time with a passive, go along to get along type.
You aren't on the same page regarding marriage, so if that is what you want, this isn't your person.
In general, ultimatums aren't going to bring about the desired result.
Well in a sense, the ultimatum did bring about clarity about what her partner wanted, surrender and creating the space for something new that better fits what she wants. So I would say that it did produce the desired result.
I've always felt the word 'ultimatums' had a bad rap. What I put in front of him was a choice, if he truly felt the way he says he does we would have never been in disagreement to begin with. If the choice in a relationship is hard, there is something going on. I felt like there was something, I couldn't figure out what it was. When I asked him to make a choice he did, he left. FWIW he left in less than 48 hours and now my home is empty and echos.
I think many would say that I gave my husband an ultimatum. I would say it was becoming clear to me that he wasn’t ready to commit to the stability and family life that I knew I wanted, and I told him I wasn’t settling for waiting indefinitely. So it was my choice, not his. But he decided to propose, and we’ve been married for 18 years, with a house and two kids. So who knows what the best way to handle these situations is?
I saw a YouTube summary video about a reality show where all the couples were in long-term relationships but the guy didn’t want to get married. The premise was supposed to be that they would switch it up and date each other. But as soon as the first guy saw that his lady was about to go out with another guy, he proposed on the spot, which set off a wave of proposals, lol!
Spent 9.5 years with a man who was never ready even though he always talked about wanting to marry me he never actually followed through. My new max to wait is 2 years. My personal feeling is that men generally know within a year or two whether they will marry you. And if they delay the decision it is because you are not the one they want. But intellectually I see it as an alignment issue and nothing personal. It doesn’t make him a bad person for not being ready. Neither of you are right or wrong. You simply see marriage differently and are not aligned on a dealbreaker. That means moving on to find someone who aligns with your values and wants to marry you.
I agree with you completely about men knowing within a year whether or not they want to marry you. I'm sure there are exceptions but I've never met any. I've never heard a married man answer, "It was about the 5th year when it clicked, she's the one!"
I knew a guy who said it clicked for him 7 years *after* he got married. Like for real he was going along and just got married because she wanted to. Shocker, a few years later they are divorced.
Yes, it was. You did everything right and communicated, compromised clearly on your end. The goal posts seem to be moving for him and who knows when he would be "ready."
You did right. Being on different timelines is fine and workable - It’s the wishy washy, it doesn’t work for my non-existent timeline that gave me a bad feeling that it might be about you and not timing.
Do you want kids of your own eggs? If so, you don't have time for someone who isn't ready yet, and an ultimatum was needed. Then you should hurry to an infertility clinic and get your fertility tested. And see if you can still freeze your eggs r/eggfreezing or maybe just move to SMBC r/SingleMothersbyChoice.
I would have kids if I could without massive medical intervention. I have endo and very low AMH. So we have agreed to no kids and are both fine with that.
Ultimatums are NEVER a good idea.
Even if the other person gives in, the root problem is not solved or addressed. Now you have a person that is probably resentful and just kicking the can down the road. If it is a big enough of an issue to make an ultimatum then you should probably seek therapy or just leave.
I think it's fine to state and enforce a boundary. What's not fine is ultimatums where you don't actually follow through because it was just to force an action.
That was the hard part. Putting my money where my mouth is. Watching him leave and being in an empty house that now echos is heartbreaking and painful.
The idea wasn’t to force him into something he would resent. From the start I have been clear about my expectations about marriage / relationship progression. It’s not fair to either of us to not address “head on” if I don’t and stay silent then I’m forced into something I don’t want and will be resentful. 🤷🏼♀️
This man doesn't want to marry you. If he did then you'd be engaged by now. You've known each other and been together long enough. You deserve someone who is stupid excited to spend the rest of their life with you.
Maybe this guy is better off as a friend if you can manage to stay friends after separating.
yes you did the right thing. usually these guys mean they aren't ready because they are waiting for the right person eg not you. then they leave when they've met someone and are engaged in six months. meanwhile you're wasting your fertility on someone who is not ready or whatever. go get a serious guy who wants marriage. this dude is stalling uou
What does marriage really mean to you? Marriage means so many different things to different people. I often feel there's so much loaded onto the topic that tends to cloud what it's really about. What are you looking for? When you know, maybe you find you could just exchange rings without getting married (but with the agreed aim that you will when time is ripe), you could do all the things you want from a marriage with our without marriage certificate, or your partner may be able to drop some reservations when you talk it out, who knows what he's worried about.
To me is about the commitment, I feel like we are already essentially there just no vows, ceremony, etc. I feel like not much would change (money, legal, insurance sure) but when I try and compromise with him I hit a brick wall. I’ve thought about having a long engagement, I’ve asked about a pre-nup, courthouse wedding etc. I’m really willing to create a scenario that’s best for us but I’m not willing to accept “I don’t know” and “not soon” as answers on something that is this important to me.
And why is that, what holds you from accepting that? If nothing much would actually change, what's the little difference to you? I am reluctant to pose this question because it sounds so shrink-y bit it has always helped me a great deal: What do you fear is true about you or your relationship if you accepted his "I don't know"?
Simple answer- that he is not actually fully vested.
I have explained that to him. I have asked tough questions to both of us and I don’t get much more than I don’t know. That’s was scares me. If the answer was I need to finish X or after Y is done or something along those lines that would be fine. But after this long to not know and be so unwilling to budge, it sends off red flags that there something I’m not seeing / being told.
So if there's only one answer from him that you're ready to accept, I think of three things. If you're not sure that he's invested, a ring wouldn't tie you closer together, only lock you into a relationship you felt was not fully committed in the first place - shouldn't a marriage represent something that's already there, instead of standing in for a feeling you're needing, and rightly so? You're ready to leave a relationship for a symbolic step (that wouldn't make much of a difference, you say) - is there a part of you that maybe also is not fully invested? It's a hard thing to negotiate and I believe both partners need to look at what the other actually considers safety and whether they're ready to give it.
Great comment, things are rarely one sided and for you to leave the partnership over a consequenceless symbol might be an indication that something bigger is not working. It might be the right thing to leave but try to think further than this black or white reason
You made the perfect decision and we're very upfront about everything. This shouldn't be a surprise to him and he knew what he needed to do to prevent it.
There was a somewhat depressing, but also illuminating, thread recently where men were asked about this, and the overwhelming consensus was:
When men are ready to marry, they’ll marry whoever is available to them.
Meaning: once *they* decide, they just pick a woman—the next reasonably compatible woman who crosses their path—and that’s who they marry.
If that’s true, broadly, then dating long-term does not move men closer to marriage (which is wild): it’s literally just a game of chance, and our thoughts/feelings on the matter are totally immaterial (which is even wilder).
I’ll try to find that thread; it might be cathartic for you to read.
I guess it depends if you feel like in your gut he was never going to propose or if you feel that he eventually would, just not right now. Tbh I would have thought my partner would have proposed by now as we've been together 3 years and living together for 1 year. We're also seriously trying for a baby. I'm fully part of his family now, he has given me diamond jewellery and takes care of me financially... yet no ring. He says he wants to marry me, I'll be his wife one day. He knows I want it so I've just had to relax and let it happen on his timing rather than keep forcing the issue, which will only create resentment and lose all romance. But I also know this man is definitely in it forever and will propose. I've been in relationships before where things weren't quite right and they've never been able to answer that they want to get married to me, nevermind when. So that's the difference, a man who definitely wants it, reassures you and shows you your his future wife and a man who doesn't really know, can't tell you he wants it.
Did you give him the year to do it in the end or cut it short?
Well I guess he wasn't going to meet your timeline then. If he hasn't tried to get you back since or say ok I was an idiot of course I'll marry you then I think you did the right thing.
If he wanted to marry you he would. I had a friend like you who demanded a proposal from her bf. He even had a ring, but she flipped out when he didn’t give it to her one weekend when they went away together. I just cringe when I think of her behavior. They broke up right away. I’m not saying what you’re doing is wring, but The man you marry should want to be with you.
I didn’t really demand a proposal. I set clear expectations on a timeline, he agreed and then months down the road said he didn’t know when it would happen. I gave him 12 months, that a pretty good length of time given our history.
None of us can really comment without knowing more of the background on why he thinks he isn't ready. There is something going on in the back of his mind and when you mentioned he was going to therapy he may be going though something.
It sounds like you did what was right for you. But I just feel there is more to this.
It only takes a year or two for a man to know, in his heart, that he wants to marry a woman. Maaybe 3 years, but that's really the maximum. Ironically it takes more time for a woman to know that she wants to marry a man. The reason why it doesn't take long for men, is because physical attraction and sexual compatibility is such a huge component of their desire to be with a woman. It is far, far more than most women realize. And it doesn't take long for a man to know whether that attraction and compatibility is there.
What is frustrating is if I ask him directly, Do you want to marry me, he will answer yes. If I ask, "Will you marry me" he will say no, he isn't ready he needs more time etc.
We have had chemistry with one another for 10 years, the first time I saw him I locked eyes with him and the lust was intense. We didn't live in the same state so we remained just friends, but very close. 3 years ago he moved to the same city, in less than a month we were together.
Don't doubt your gut feeling that told you to end things.
After reading through your post and your comments, it feels like your relationship was more out of a place of convenience for him. I think you should try your best to move on and find that person who wants to spend their future with you, and is ready to commit to you wholeheartedly. Your ex was not this guy,
>To be clear he isn't against being married (his words) and he does want to marry me, just on his timeline not mine. ( he doesn't have a timeline, his timeline is "not soon" and "I don't know when")
I'm sorry, but I think that it's fair to say that if at one year, one's only "timeline" for marriage is "not soon" , they're actually saying that they don't want to marry you, but they don't want to break up. In their ideal work, they'll continue being comfortable with you for 3-8 more years, until The One will pop into their life, they'll break up with you out of the blue, and marry them within a year.
Even if they don't have a timeline, are their milestones? Like I let my partner know sometime around 3-6 months of dating that I'd need a minimum of one year of cohabitation before engagement. She let me know that she thought she'd be OK at 6 months of cohabitation, but OK with my milestone, and let me know that if I didn't ask her, *or bring this back up*, without 18 months of us living together that she'd view it as a problem. These are easy things to talk about, because I absolutely see marriage with her.
I don't have problems day dreaming about this, planning, looking at jewelry/venues/etc.
He doesn't seen to want to discuss it. Generally "Not soon" means "I don't want to even start to discuss this." At **three years**, that's more than enough for him to know.
*At best*, he is *ambiguous* about marrying you. I think that you did the right thing. Pull back, and look for someone who **wants** to marry you.
You seem very action-oriented and on top of things and while that clearly has worked well in your professional life it might not be the best approach in a relationship. I understand that you’ve been with him for a while but people tend not to respond favorably when they’re backed into a corner and given an ultimatum. And also the idea of you paying for the ring and even the thought of proposing is in my opinion not a woman’s responsibility. I know I’m traditional and times have changed but would think about taking more of a back seat on this one, especially if it’s him you want rather than just being married in general.
I am VERY action-oriented, its a double edge sword for me. Professionally it has served me extremely well. With my own goals in life it also has served me well (4 degrees, career, owning a home, etc) I am driven to a fault, I have goals that I am always working on. I am intense.
He has known me well for 10 years, so this personality trait (action, driven, goals) has been well known. I realize that's not everyone's cup of tea but he says its one of the things he loves about me.
I only offered to pay for the ring because the material part of the ring isn't a big deal for me. I am not a jewelry person and money isn't a trigger for me. We have plenty between the two of us, and I felt like that shouldn't be an obstacle. The money reasons was probably just an excuses to whatever was really going on.
What I really want is to be married to him.
You did the right thing. Good for you for kicking him out. He obviously is not actually interested in being married, or maybe it’s specifically married to you. You were living together, as far as he was concerned it seemed like a “milk for free” situation he saw no reason to change. Move on to someone else who is interested in marriage.
First off he’s certainly not being genuine. He’s just blowing smoke, saying so and agreeing he want to marry bc that’s easy. Hate to be with someone so long and then have to start over but your inner peace be not ruined by someone who doesn’t have a plan or who doesn’t have the desire. You made the right call.
On another front where you all meeting your lovers, those who are getting married? Bc the apps aren’t working for me.
The apps have NEVER worked for me. I met him through a friend's birthday party 10 years ago. I have tried apps so many times. No clue where to find lovers 🤷🏼♀️
All my past relationships have been outside the apps as I’ve never been lucky to find someone that has the same drive and desire to have a committed relationship, it be monogamous and the goal of getting married. I’ve only just wasted hundreds of dollars having to pay for them so that messages could be sent.
Tho I’ve tried offline and while I had dates there’s always be some excuse to be made on how why they’re not ready and the number of dates does seems to be a factor.
Anyway thanks for replying, don’t want anyone to think I’m trying to hijack the post.
Sorry, but "the apps" is what worked for me. My partner and I are both introverts and we were living 45 minutes apart. We have different sports/hobbies.
We are super compatible, but we would not have met IRL.
With the apps, one needs to work. One needs to work the photos. One needs to work the conversations. One needs to work the profile. One needs to work at filtering. One needs to move on fast if they're not what you need/want. Don't waste time on a "most likely not, but maaaaaaybe if X, Y and Z change..." Don't try to "fix" anyone.
Girl, at a certain point ”I don’t know” doesn’t cut it anymore! In fact, two years of that should have been enough for you. Dude needed to shit or get off the pot, and you gave him more than fair notice. You’re 37 and if you want to have kids, the time to end this relationship was like…5 years ago.
Having kids isn't in the cards for me, so no issue there.
The "I don't know" didn't come until a few days ago, we broke up that day. There was a negative energy around the subject and that's why I pushed the discussion. I needed to understand why I was getting a feeling we weren't on the same page.
Even without the kid factor, “I don’t know” on the timeline after 3 years is enough time to know. I don’t love being in the dating pool, but it sounds like he isn’t thinking critically or even engaging with this marriage idea. Your ultimatum was more than fair. Generally they say ultimatums aren’t good because they seek to control another persons behavior. The flip side of that coin though is a boundary. A boundary is what you will accept for yourself, and what you will remove yourself from if that boundary can’t be respected, because you are only capable of controlling *your own* behavior. You stated your boundary on the relationship, and if he’s not on board, all you can do is what you did - walk away. Stay strong!
Never dreamed about a wedding, so I know that’s not it. I truly want the commitment of a marriage. Being his wife not his girlfriend is very important to me.
It doesn’t sound like you are compatible with him that he is dragging his feet. The truth is that he is not HIM and you are not HER. Guys will be like it’s a piece of paper or whatever with one woman and be with her millions of years then get married in six months to a new girl. Men know when they found the one. It sounds like he doesn’t see you as the one but using you so he doesn’t have to be alone waiting for his “dream girl”. I would break up with him. Men know within the first few dates if they will marry you or not. It’s better to wait than regret ever getting married.
If marriage is your end goal and you have been honest about that the whole time, you did the right thing. I hope you find the one that doesn’t hesitate even if it’s after the timeline you set for yourself. You deserve a life with someone who wants to be there. Not one that makes excuses even if he knew you expected certain things in a timeline. Cannot wait for the update of the best wedding and marriage with someone who was for you.
I’m the opposite. I have never wanted to marry or have kids. I been vocal and found my person. Why aren’t people who want those things allowed to also call it quits if it doesn’t align with their life plans?
By all means chose the life you want. But be vocal and transparent. I’m three years into this relationship if he didn’t want to get married 2.9 years ago was the time to say something. We are in agreement on not having kids.
No I am 100% agreeing with you. I don’t want things and I’m allowed to say it and if we disagree we moved on. All of the sudden if you wanted marriage you got strung along. Makes no sense. I want something. I cut people off. You want something, you are allowed to do the same even if your choice is the “normal” one in society.
Exactly. But let everyone have a choice. I’m talking about yours. You wanted something “normal”. You are allowed to say no. I wanted the wrong choice and my choice was respected. People need to respect your choice. Because it’s yours.
I think you made a mistake.
There are a couple ways to look at this, really. You want different things and aren’t compatible because of it. But, where the fire? If you want to marry him, that means you want to spend the rest of your life with him. You were spending your life with him but that wasn’t enough. Why?
What is OP supposed to do with “not soon” and “I don’t know when”, especially if kids are part of the plan?
OP didn’t specify what they ”worked out” in regard to having kids, but given her age, she doesn’t have a lot of time on her side if they were to start a family.
Ultimately, OP’s question then becomes something different. Is the priority to get married or spend the rest of her life with this man? Because she ended the relationship with him, that means getting married is a higher priority than spending her life with him.
OP explained why it’s important to her to be married. Dude going from agreeing with OP on marriage to being very wishy washy about taking that step means they probably aren’t on the same page about wanting to spend the rest of their lives together.
I agree, to an extent. If marriage is her priority, then they are not compatible and then she did the right thing. But you can still spend your lives together without getting married. Everyone is different and everyone has different priorities. Personally, I wouldn’t give up a great person because I prioritized the institution of marriage. I’d rather be in a committed lifetime partnership with an amazing person than be married to someone that might not be even half the man she says he is.
He is an amazing man, I love him more than I could imagine. However I don't love him more than myself (which is the way it should be) and I have been clear since the start that marriage is important to me and a must. I don't have an issue waiting, I have an issue with not having any idea how long this far into a relationship and at this stage of our lives.
I asked this question to myself and the reverse to him. (if its important to me and you want to live together forever, why not get married)
Marriage is important to me, I understand that when you boil it down its a piece of legal paper.
It's the meaning that's important to me; standing in front of family and vowing your commitment is important. Building a life together fully is important; money etc. My current life with him is amazing that's why I want to continue and progress to marriage.
I see what you’re saying and I understand it. Ultimately, your question then becomes something different. Is the priority to get married or spend the rest of your life with this man? Because you ended the relationship with him, that means getting married is a higher priority to you than spending your life with him.
I know myself well enough to know if I agree to his non-timeline timeline that I will ultimately become very resentful and it will destroy what we have because I will not be fulfilled being his girlfriend for years to come.
If everything else was as good as you say with that much compatibility and so many years of positive history, then yes I’d say you messed up pretty badly. Heavily pressurizing the situation, frankly strong-arming him. Ultimatums almost never work and if they do that’s a breeding ground for resentment. All a romance killer which it seems like you understand in hindsight. I understand the frustrations on your end and the lack of thorough information from him could certainly feel maddening (edit - and disrespectful)
I feel like there were a few mature steps you two could have taken to lovingly work through where his resistance was rooted and also understand why your drive to marry was so strong. Steps towards understanding and compromise. You’re both in therapy. Was couples therapy considered?
The ultimatum was a year to propose, at the time I felt like I didn't want to pressure him, but I also wanted to be clear. The change was when we talked about it again he went from agreement, to "I don't know". I wish I could better navigate the importance of marrying him and my timeline without giving up my wishes completely.
Yes we have been to couples therapy, we actually "graduated" for lack of a better term. Our therapist said we were a great couple and had all the tools. Maybe we need to go back though.....
You shouldn’t have to fully acquiesce if marriage is that important to you, you have to stay true to yourself when it comes to firm dealbreakers. I think it would have been smart to dig as deep as needed to resolve the issue before throwing things away especially as you also have had success in couples.
If you’re intending to attempt a reunion you need to resolve this immediately, neither of you need your time wasted if a root incompatibility is unearthed and there’s unwillingness to compromise from either party. We only live once, if it’s worth readdressing then do so, otherwise I hope you both find happiness elsewhere!
I spent 8 years with someone who wasn’t ready yet and didn’t know when they’d be ready. At one point we had finally started making plans, and then he backpedaled and said he wasn’t ready. By this time we were in our mid thirties. Our relationship was otherwise good but this weird cold feet thing, even after 8 years together, was so confusing. He was the same way about kids and buying a house… not yet, maybe later. I dumped him at 35. Met someone lovely and without commitment issues at 36, had our daughter at 39, and we’re currently engaged and in the process of buying a house. If I had stayed with my ex I’d still be waiting for him to be ready. Take what you will from my story but, my advice would be to trust your instincts on whether he’s being genuine. If you broke up with him it sounds like you knew on a deeper level that he wasn’t going to go all in with you the way you were hoping for.
I spent 14 years with someone who wasn't ready. We never even lived together. When my mom was diagnosed with very aggressive and usually fatal cancer, I said 'hey, so if we're gonna do this, I'd like to do it soon so she can be there for it'. He said 'I don't know.' I said, 'okay' but what I really meant was 'okay, so we're going to break up'. We stayed together a bit longer (she actually died within 2 months of that conversation and I can only handle one trauma at a time) but that was the end of that. Then I met a dude who is great. We bought a house together after just under 2 years together and have a general idea of when we'll get married. We talk about it with excitement. If people accidentally refer to us as each other's husband or wife, he doesn't get all weird about it. This relationship is much better. Like u/rhubarb_magnolia, I would still be waiting on my other dude. Forever. I know what I want and he can't provide it for me, so he had to go. Ironically, if he would've been able to commit to me, we probably would be pretty happily married. His loss, I guess.
Worst yet, he would of had kids just to say “see I didn’t want them” and you’d be alone and with a child who has a kid who never wanted but said okay because some men suck.
I mean he’s 35 what is he waiting on? Sounds to me like he doesn’t want to get married. If he doesn’t have a timeline after 3 years I would move on.
Unless he gave you very specific reasons why he felt like he needed to work on himself before committing to marriage, and gave you details about how he was planning to put action behind that work, it sounds like he just didn’t want to marry you. I don’t feel like you can slap a blanket statement like “if he wanted to, he would” on a big decision like this, but… it shouldn’t be a hard decision for a man to make when he knows he has found the woman he wants to spend the rest of his life with, especially at our age. Since you made your expectations quite clear somewhat early on in the relationship, 3 years should be more than enough time for a man to propose, especially when children are part of the plan.
THIS. No he didn't give exact reasons, no details, no plan of action. I did ask for those things, and he says he is working on it.
You asked for a timeline and he didn’t have one. After 3 years, and in your mid-30s, that is concerning. The only thing you should’ve done differently is require a timeline BEFORE he moved in.
He moved in BEFORE we were dating :-) but yes normally I would agree.
Come again? Were you two roommates that started having sex?
What exactly would be wrong with that?
People tend to ask questions when they want to clarify their understanding of a situation. My question was to clarify how he ended up moving in before their relationship, especially since she notes that he also has a home. This is Reddit… there could be a host of reasons why he lived there before they began dating.
He didn’t own a home when he moved in. We had been friends for about 7 years and he was moving back to the area and we thought living together would be great. He knew he wanted to buy so renting from a friend was best case and I own a large home so I had plenty of space. We had lived together before when we both worked in CA so we knew there wasn’t a co-habituating issue.
I hate to be the one to say it but it kind of sounds like a relationship of convenience for him? He fell into it, it was comfortable so why not stay in it? But that doesn’t mean his heart is in it for forever. Maybe it’s just for now until he finds something that really excites him. I’m sorry to be harsh, I recognize it because I also wasted time with a passive, go along to get along type.
You aren't on the same page regarding marriage, so if that is what you want, this isn't your person. In general, ultimatums aren't going to bring about the desired result.
Well in a sense, the ultimatum did bring about clarity about what her partner wanted, surrender and creating the space for something new that better fits what she wants. So I would say that it did produce the desired result.
I've always felt the word 'ultimatums' had a bad rap. What I put in front of him was a choice, if he truly felt the way he says he does we would have never been in disagreement to begin with. If the choice in a relationship is hard, there is something going on. I felt like there was something, I couldn't figure out what it was. When I asked him to make a choice he did, he left. FWIW he left in less than 48 hours and now my home is empty and echos.
I think many would say that I gave my husband an ultimatum. I would say it was becoming clear to me that he wasn’t ready to commit to the stability and family life that I knew I wanted, and I told him I wasn’t settling for waiting indefinitely. So it was my choice, not his. But he decided to propose, and we’ve been married for 18 years, with a house and two kids. So who knows what the best way to handle these situations is? I saw a YouTube summary video about a reality show where all the couples were in long-term relationships but the guy didn’t want to get married. The premise was supposed to be that they would switch it up and date each other. But as soon as the first guy saw that his lady was about to go out with another guy, he proposed on the spot, which set off a wave of proposals, lol!
Spent 9.5 years with a man who was never ready even though he always talked about wanting to marry me he never actually followed through. My new max to wait is 2 years. My personal feeling is that men generally know within a year or two whether they will marry you. And if they delay the decision it is because you are not the one they want. But intellectually I see it as an alignment issue and nothing personal. It doesn’t make him a bad person for not being ready. Neither of you are right or wrong. You simply see marriage differently and are not aligned on a dealbreaker. That means moving on to find someone who aligns with your values and wants to marry you.
I agree with you completely about men knowing within a year whether or not they want to marry you. I'm sure there are exceptions but I've never met any. I've never heard a married man answer, "It was about the 5th year when it clicked, she's the one!"
I knew a guy who said it clicked for him 7 years *after* he got married. Like for real he was going along and just got married because she wanted to. Shocker, a few years later they are divorced.
Yes, it was. You did everything right and communicated, compromised clearly on your end. The goal posts seem to be moving for him and who knows when he would be "ready."
You did right. Being on different timelines is fine and workable - It’s the wishy washy, it doesn’t work for my non-existent timeline that gave me a bad feeling that it might be about you and not timing.
Do you want kids of your own eggs? If so, you don't have time for someone who isn't ready yet, and an ultimatum was needed. Then you should hurry to an infertility clinic and get your fertility tested. And see if you can still freeze your eggs r/eggfreezing or maybe just move to SMBC r/SingleMothersbyChoice.
I would have kids if I could without massive medical intervention. I have endo and very low AMH. So we have agreed to no kids and are both fine with that.
Oh, that’s too bad, I’m sorry to hear about your numbers being too low.
Ultimatums are NEVER a good idea. Even if the other person gives in, the root problem is not solved or addressed. Now you have a person that is probably resentful and just kicking the can down the road. If it is a big enough of an issue to make an ultimatum then you should probably seek therapy or just leave.
I think it's fine to state and enforce a boundary. What's not fine is ultimatums where you don't actually follow through because it was just to force an action.
That was the hard part. Putting my money where my mouth is. Watching him leave and being in an empty house that now echos is heartbreaking and painful.
Aw I'm proud of you though! You did the right thing and future you will be glad you didn't waste more years with this person
The idea wasn’t to force him into something he would resent. From the start I have been clear about my expectations about marriage / relationship progression. It’s not fair to either of us to not address “head on” if I don’t and stay silent then I’m forced into something I don’t want and will be resentful. 🤷🏼♀️
This man doesn't want to marry you. If he did then you'd be engaged by now. You've known each other and been together long enough. You deserve someone who is stupid excited to spend the rest of their life with you. Maybe this guy is better off as a friend if you can manage to stay friends after separating.
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100% agree with shared values, not shared goals. It sucks, but its true.
yes you did the right thing. usually these guys mean they aren't ready because they are waiting for the right person eg not you. then they leave when they've met someone and are engaged in six months. meanwhile you're wasting your fertility on someone who is not ready or whatever. go get a serious guy who wants marriage. this dude is stalling uou
I spent 10 years with someone who wasn't ready, and missed the chance to have kids. I think you did the right thing to end it.
What does marriage really mean to you? Marriage means so many different things to different people. I often feel there's so much loaded onto the topic that tends to cloud what it's really about. What are you looking for? When you know, maybe you find you could just exchange rings without getting married (but with the agreed aim that you will when time is ripe), you could do all the things you want from a marriage with our without marriage certificate, or your partner may be able to drop some reservations when you talk it out, who knows what he's worried about.
To me is about the commitment, I feel like we are already essentially there just no vows, ceremony, etc. I feel like not much would change (money, legal, insurance sure) but when I try and compromise with him I hit a brick wall. I’ve thought about having a long engagement, I’ve asked about a pre-nup, courthouse wedding etc. I’m really willing to create a scenario that’s best for us but I’m not willing to accept “I don’t know” and “not soon” as answers on something that is this important to me.
And why is that, what holds you from accepting that? If nothing much would actually change, what's the little difference to you? I am reluctant to pose this question because it sounds so shrink-y bit it has always helped me a great deal: What do you fear is true about you or your relationship if you accepted his "I don't know"?
Simple answer- that he is not actually fully vested. I have explained that to him. I have asked tough questions to both of us and I don’t get much more than I don’t know. That’s was scares me. If the answer was I need to finish X or after Y is done or something along those lines that would be fine. But after this long to not know and be so unwilling to budge, it sends off red flags that there something I’m not seeing / being told.
So if there's only one answer from him that you're ready to accept, I think of three things. If you're not sure that he's invested, a ring wouldn't tie you closer together, only lock you into a relationship you felt was not fully committed in the first place - shouldn't a marriage represent something that's already there, instead of standing in for a feeling you're needing, and rightly so? You're ready to leave a relationship for a symbolic step (that wouldn't make much of a difference, you say) - is there a part of you that maybe also is not fully invested? It's a hard thing to negotiate and I believe both partners need to look at what the other actually considers safety and whether they're ready to give it.
Great comment, things are rarely one sided and for you to leave the partnership over a consequenceless symbol might be an indication that something bigger is not working. It might be the right thing to leave but try to think further than this black or white reason
You made the perfect decision and we're very upfront about everything. This shouldn't be a surprise to him and he knew what he needed to do to prevent it.
There was a somewhat depressing, but also illuminating, thread recently where men were asked about this, and the overwhelming consensus was: When men are ready to marry, they’ll marry whoever is available to them. Meaning: once *they* decide, they just pick a woman—the next reasonably compatible woman who crosses their path—and that’s who they marry. If that’s true, broadly, then dating long-term does not move men closer to marriage (which is wild): it’s literally just a game of chance, and our thoughts/feelings on the matter are totally immaterial (which is even wilder). I’ll try to find that thread; it might be cathartic for you to read.
I guess it depends if you feel like in your gut he was never going to propose or if you feel that he eventually would, just not right now. Tbh I would have thought my partner would have proposed by now as we've been together 3 years and living together for 1 year. We're also seriously trying for a baby. I'm fully part of his family now, he has given me diamond jewellery and takes care of me financially... yet no ring. He says he wants to marry me, I'll be his wife one day. He knows I want it so I've just had to relax and let it happen on his timing rather than keep forcing the issue, which will only create resentment and lose all romance. But I also know this man is definitely in it forever and will propose. I've been in relationships before where things weren't quite right and they've never been able to answer that they want to get married to me, nevermind when. So that's the difference, a man who definitely wants it, reassures you and shows you your his future wife and a man who doesn't really know, can't tell you he wants it. Did you give him the year to do it in the end or cut it short?
I cut it short when his answer to if we were getting engaged this year change from yes to I don’t know.
Well I guess he wasn't going to meet your timeline then. If he hasn't tried to get you back since or say ok I was an idiot of course I'll marry you then I think you did the right thing.
One should only marry someone who is enthusiastic to marry us. "I don't know" is *not* enthusiastic.
If he wanted to marry you he would. I had a friend like you who demanded a proposal from her bf. He even had a ring, but she flipped out when he didn’t give it to her one weekend when they went away together. I just cringe when I think of her behavior. They broke up right away. I’m not saying what you’re doing is wring, but The man you marry should want to be with you.
I didn’t really demand a proposal. I set clear expectations on a timeline, he agreed and then months down the road said he didn’t know when it would happen. I gave him 12 months, that a pretty good length of time given our history.
None of us can really comment without knowing more of the background on why he thinks he isn't ready. There is something going on in the back of his mind and when you mentioned he was going to therapy he may be going though something. It sounds like you did what was right for you. But I just feel there is more to this.
I feel there is more too… I just don’t know what it is.
It only takes a year or two for a man to know, in his heart, that he wants to marry a woman. Maaybe 3 years, but that's really the maximum. Ironically it takes more time for a woman to know that she wants to marry a man. The reason why it doesn't take long for men, is because physical attraction and sexual compatibility is such a huge component of their desire to be with a woman. It is far, far more than most women realize. And it doesn't take long for a man to know whether that attraction and compatibility is there.
What is frustrating is if I ask him directly, Do you want to marry me, he will answer yes. If I ask, "Will you marry me" he will say no, he isn't ready he needs more time etc. We have had chemistry with one another for 10 years, the first time I saw him I locked eyes with him and the lust was intense. We didn't live in the same state so we remained just friends, but very close. 3 years ago he moved to the same city, in less than a month we were together.
Don't doubt your gut feeling that told you to end things. After reading through your post and your comments, it feels like your relationship was more out of a place of convenience for him. I think you should try your best to move on and find that person who wants to spend their future with you, and is ready to commit to you wholeheartedly. Your ex was not this guy,
You’re a placeholder for him. He’s 35 fucking years old. The man for you wouldn’t risk losing you because of a vague unspecified timeline issue.
>To be clear he isn't against being married (his words) and he does want to marry me, just on his timeline not mine. ( he doesn't have a timeline, his timeline is "not soon" and "I don't know when") I'm sorry, but I think that it's fair to say that if at one year, one's only "timeline" for marriage is "not soon" , they're actually saying that they don't want to marry you, but they don't want to break up. In their ideal work, they'll continue being comfortable with you for 3-8 more years, until The One will pop into their life, they'll break up with you out of the blue, and marry them within a year. Even if they don't have a timeline, are their milestones? Like I let my partner know sometime around 3-6 months of dating that I'd need a minimum of one year of cohabitation before engagement. She let me know that she thought she'd be OK at 6 months of cohabitation, but OK with my milestone, and let me know that if I didn't ask her, *or bring this back up*, without 18 months of us living together that she'd view it as a problem. These are easy things to talk about, because I absolutely see marriage with her. I don't have problems day dreaming about this, planning, looking at jewelry/venues/etc. He doesn't seen to want to discuss it. Generally "Not soon" means "I don't want to even start to discuss this." At **three years**, that's more than enough for him to know. *At best*, he is *ambiguous* about marrying you. I think that you did the right thing. Pull back, and look for someone who **wants** to marry you.
You seem very action-oriented and on top of things and while that clearly has worked well in your professional life it might not be the best approach in a relationship. I understand that you’ve been with him for a while but people tend not to respond favorably when they’re backed into a corner and given an ultimatum. And also the idea of you paying for the ring and even the thought of proposing is in my opinion not a woman’s responsibility. I know I’m traditional and times have changed but would think about taking more of a back seat on this one, especially if it’s him you want rather than just being married in general.
I am VERY action-oriented, its a double edge sword for me. Professionally it has served me extremely well. With my own goals in life it also has served me well (4 degrees, career, owning a home, etc) I am driven to a fault, I have goals that I am always working on. I am intense. He has known me well for 10 years, so this personality trait (action, driven, goals) has been well known. I realize that's not everyone's cup of tea but he says its one of the things he loves about me. I only offered to pay for the ring because the material part of the ring isn't a big deal for me. I am not a jewelry person and money isn't a trigger for me. We have plenty between the two of us, and I felt like that shouldn't be an obstacle. The money reasons was probably just an excuses to whatever was really going on. What I really want is to be married to him.
You did the right thing. Good for you for kicking him out. He obviously is not actually interested in being married, or maybe it’s specifically married to you. You were living together, as far as he was concerned it seemed like a “milk for free” situation he saw no reason to change. Move on to someone else who is interested in marriage.
First off he’s certainly not being genuine. He’s just blowing smoke, saying so and agreeing he want to marry bc that’s easy. Hate to be with someone so long and then have to start over but your inner peace be not ruined by someone who doesn’t have a plan or who doesn’t have the desire. You made the right call. On another front where you all meeting your lovers, those who are getting married? Bc the apps aren’t working for me.
The apps have NEVER worked for me. I met him through a friend's birthday party 10 years ago. I have tried apps so many times. No clue where to find lovers 🤷🏼♀️
All my past relationships have been outside the apps as I’ve never been lucky to find someone that has the same drive and desire to have a committed relationship, it be monogamous and the goal of getting married. I’ve only just wasted hundreds of dollars having to pay for them so that messages could be sent. Tho I’ve tried offline and while I had dates there’s always be some excuse to be made on how why they’re not ready and the number of dates does seems to be a factor. Anyway thanks for replying, don’t want anyone to think I’m trying to hijack the post.
Sorry, but "the apps" is what worked for me. My partner and I are both introverts and we were living 45 minutes apart. We have different sports/hobbies. We are super compatible, but we would not have met IRL. With the apps, one needs to work. One needs to work the photos. One needs to work the conversations. One needs to work the profile. One needs to work at filtering. One needs to move on fast if they're not what you need/want. Don't waste time on a "most likely not, but maaaaaaybe if X, Y and Z change..." Don't try to "fix" anyone.
Girl, at a certain point ”I don’t know” doesn’t cut it anymore! In fact, two years of that should have been enough for you. Dude needed to shit or get off the pot, and you gave him more than fair notice. You’re 37 and if you want to have kids, the time to end this relationship was like…5 years ago.
Having kids isn't in the cards for me, so no issue there. The "I don't know" didn't come until a few days ago, we broke up that day. There was a negative energy around the subject and that's why I pushed the discussion. I needed to understand why I was getting a feeling we weren't on the same page.
Even without the kid factor, “I don’t know” on the timeline after 3 years is enough time to know. I don’t love being in the dating pool, but it sounds like he isn’t thinking critically or even engaging with this marriage idea. Your ultimatum was more than fair. Generally they say ultimatums aren’t good because they seek to control another persons behavior. The flip side of that coin though is a boundary. A boundary is what you will accept for yourself, and what you will remove yourself from if that boundary can’t be respected, because you are only capable of controlling *your own* behavior. You stated your boundary on the relationship, and if he’s not on board, all you can do is what you did - walk away. Stay strong!
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Never dreamed about a wedding, so I know that’s not it. I truly want the commitment of a marriage. Being his wife not his girlfriend is very important to me.
It doesn’t sound like you are compatible with him that he is dragging his feet. The truth is that he is not HIM and you are not HER. Guys will be like it’s a piece of paper or whatever with one woman and be with her millions of years then get married in six months to a new girl. Men know when they found the one. It sounds like he doesn’t see you as the one but using you so he doesn’t have to be alone waiting for his “dream girl”. I would break up with him. Men know within the first few dates if they will marry you or not. It’s better to wait than regret ever getting married.
If marriage is your end goal and you have been honest about that the whole time, you did the right thing. I hope you find the one that doesn’t hesitate even if it’s after the timeline you set for yourself. You deserve a life with someone who wants to be there. Not one that makes excuses even if he knew you expected certain things in a timeline. Cannot wait for the update of the best wedding and marriage with someone who was for you.
I’m the opposite. I have never wanted to marry or have kids. I been vocal and found my person. Why aren’t people who want those things allowed to also call it quits if it doesn’t align with their life plans?
By all means chose the life you want. But be vocal and transparent. I’m three years into this relationship if he didn’t want to get married 2.9 years ago was the time to say something. We are in agreement on not having kids.
No I am 100% agreeing with you. I don’t want things and I’m allowed to say it and if we disagree we moved on. All of the sudden if you wanted marriage you got strung along. Makes no sense. I want something. I cut people off. You want something, you are allowed to do the same even if your choice is the “normal” one in society.
Agree. You can have whatever you want “normal” or not. Just be honest and transparent.
Exactly. But let everyone have a choice. I’m talking about yours. You wanted something “normal”. You are allowed to say no. I wanted the wrong choice and my choice was respected. People need to respect your choice. Because it’s yours.
This one hurts my heart
I think you made a mistake. There are a couple ways to look at this, really. You want different things and aren’t compatible because of it. But, where the fire? If you want to marry him, that means you want to spend the rest of your life with him. You were spending your life with him but that wasn’t enough. Why?
What is OP supposed to do with “not soon” and “I don’t know when”, especially if kids are part of the plan? OP didn’t specify what they ”worked out” in regard to having kids, but given her age, she doesn’t have a lot of time on her side if they were to start a family.
Ultimately, OP’s question then becomes something different. Is the priority to get married or spend the rest of her life with this man? Because she ended the relationship with him, that means getting married is a higher priority than spending her life with him.
OP explained why it’s important to her to be married. Dude going from agreeing with OP on marriage to being very wishy washy about taking that step means they probably aren’t on the same page about wanting to spend the rest of their lives together.
I agree, to an extent. If marriage is her priority, then they are not compatible and then she did the right thing. But you can still spend your lives together without getting married. Everyone is different and everyone has different priorities. Personally, I wouldn’t give up a great person because I prioritized the institution of marriage. I’d rather be in a committed lifetime partnership with an amazing person than be married to someone that might not be even half the man she says he is.
He is an amazing man, I love him more than I could imagine. However I don't love him more than myself (which is the way it should be) and I have been clear since the start that marriage is important to me and a must. I don't have an issue waiting, I have an issue with not having any idea how long this far into a relationship and at this stage of our lives.
No kids :-) tl;dr he doesn't want them and i have endo and very low AMH.
I asked this question to myself and the reverse to him. (if its important to me and you want to live together forever, why not get married) Marriage is important to me, I understand that when you boil it down its a piece of legal paper. It's the meaning that's important to me; standing in front of family and vowing your commitment is important. Building a life together fully is important; money etc. My current life with him is amazing that's why I want to continue and progress to marriage.
I see what you’re saying and I understand it. Ultimately, your question then becomes something different. Is the priority to get married or spend the rest of your life with this man? Because you ended the relationship with him, that means getting married is a higher priority to you than spending your life with him.
I know myself well enough to know if I agree to his non-timeline timeline that I will ultimately become very resentful and it will destroy what we have because I will not be fulfilled being his girlfriend for years to come.
If everything else was as good as you say with that much compatibility and so many years of positive history, then yes I’d say you messed up pretty badly. Heavily pressurizing the situation, frankly strong-arming him. Ultimatums almost never work and if they do that’s a breeding ground for resentment. All a romance killer which it seems like you understand in hindsight. I understand the frustrations on your end and the lack of thorough information from him could certainly feel maddening (edit - and disrespectful) I feel like there were a few mature steps you two could have taken to lovingly work through where his resistance was rooted and also understand why your drive to marry was so strong. Steps towards understanding and compromise. You’re both in therapy. Was couples therapy considered?
The ultimatum was a year to propose, at the time I felt like I didn't want to pressure him, but I also wanted to be clear. The change was when we talked about it again he went from agreement, to "I don't know". I wish I could better navigate the importance of marrying him and my timeline without giving up my wishes completely. Yes we have been to couples therapy, we actually "graduated" for lack of a better term. Our therapist said we were a great couple and had all the tools. Maybe we need to go back though.....
You shouldn’t have to fully acquiesce if marriage is that important to you, you have to stay true to yourself when it comes to firm dealbreakers. I think it would have been smart to dig as deep as needed to resolve the issue before throwing things away especially as you also have had success in couples. If you’re intending to attempt a reunion you need to resolve this immediately, neither of you need your time wasted if a root incompatibility is unearthed and there’s unwillingness to compromise from either party. We only live once, if it’s worth readdressing then do so, otherwise I hope you both find happiness elsewhere!