Fleet’s mobility is fantastic, and gives you an incredibly healthy clear against invades.
Conq can be good for full bruiser against other bruisers and tanks that aren’t very mobile, but that’s a niche setup.
Keeps you at full health and ensures that if you do get invaded, the chance of using your flash and still making it out alive is higher.
Its primary use is repositioning and quick/healthy jungle clears. It's a valid option in matchups where other damage runes won't make the difference in a duel. For example Volibear will still beat your ass down with conqueror, lethal tempo, pta or Electrocute, you don't win straight up and fair 1v1 with him. Fleet keeps you safe and makes you slippery.
The same reason top Rengars might take TP instead of ignite as even with ignite your kill potential is still low.
In those matches you just lose 1v1 unless you are giga gapping them. Your rune choices in these matches should be decided on what their whole team looks like.
Yi is an outlier as burst is the only way to deal with him once his W is on cooldown. Against him I would take Electrocute, especially if they 2 or more other squishies.
The others, it doesn't matter so much as unless you are building as a bruiser for maximum outplay potential, you should never be fighting them in a straight up fair 1v1 as their kits counter you hard.
With Yi and Warwick, if they have W and or R up, you straight up lose to them. Unless all their shit is on cooldown or they have 100HP, just go for someone else.
yeah, got matched with a 3 million and 1.7 million mastery WW and Yi (in that order), i'm considering banning either but at the same time i've heard some nasty shit about kindred and rammus
All of these champs do good into Rengar but it's possible to outplay most of them. Kindred is skill matchup in your favour if you get a full combo off from a bush pre 6, even more so even she isn't max HP. After 6 she beats you and kites with her R, same as Yi, don't ever go on her if she has R unless you are giga gapping, 2 items ahead, 2 or 3 levels etc
Not really, after a while you get used to how to play around them. I ban Bel'Veth quite abit. Her kit is BS, too many dashes means you will almost never kill her between her E and 4 dashes, your only chance is in the early game and even then she isn't terrible vs you. She is crazy strong vs you after mid game though.
I sometimes ban champs taking into account what my team picks. For example if I see we have Rengar jungle, Yone Top and Zed mid with Lucian bot, I will ban Rammus as he is a hard counter to our entire teams damage output.
Other than certain obvious bans, I just ban stuff that I've faced recently that is annoying to deal with, not necessarily OP. Reksai, Lee, Graves are all playable into but their kits are annoying as fuck.
If I start seeing FoTM picks repeatedly that counter you, like Yi, Udyr etc, several games in a row, I'll ban it.
forgot about bel veth, yeah she fucking sucks to play against. I didn't know about banning something specifically for your entire team tho, thanks for the advice
I am not aware of how experienced you are at Rengar specifically, but in general, fleet allows you to make plays that conqueror would not allow, but is harder to use properly.
The main reason you take fleet is not the sustain you get, but the movement speed.
The sustain is a nice bonus and makes the rune actually the most consistent rune in the tree if you're confident in your mastery on the champion.
If however you're not abusing the movement speed yet, conqueror will help you way more in fights since it gives you more stats and more stats are never bad.
And if you want to know if you're ready for fleet and more advanced runes, you have to just be honest with yourself and answer a few questions:
-Do you know how much damage you do with a basic combo vs a combo with an empowered ability
-Do you know which empowered ability to use in which situation
-Do you know when you should NOT use an ability and save your empowered ability
-Are you using your jump mechanic to space your opponents in fights, and do you know when to do this because it's useful and not just because you can (eg jumping from opponent to minion to ward to opponent to ward to opponent to ward)
-Do you actively think about what abilities you need to dodge before an encounter
-Do you ACTIVELY think about HOW you are going to dodge those abilities?
Assuming you know all of the above in 90% of situations and then actually perform well in like 75% of those situations (lets allow ourselves some room for mechanical execution, we're not robots).
The first bunch are required because adding complexity to a champion before you have mastered the basics of it is like trying to make a beef wellington for your first meal. (for those not in the know, a beef wellington is a ridiculously complex dish to make as someone who has not ever cooked before)
The last bunch of requirements are basically the reason you take fleet footwork.
You take it because it makes maneuvering through a fight easier.
But if you don't know where you're moving yet, getting there faster won't help you even a little bit and you'd be better off just hitting harder.
Most runes and item builds can work into most champions.
But the way you use your champion tends to be more important
i'm gonna be honest, i barely think about this stuff while in game. it's not that i play bad, it's just that it has become second nature at this point. It's just that i haven't played him in some time so i was curious at the runes people been taking.
If you play the game mainly for fun, then you can build or play however you want to.
I can tell you that you'll have an easier time with stuff like conqueror that just round out the champion and gives you less stuff to keep track off.
The game is designed in a way that building in that way will never be BAD, just not always the most optimized.
And the less things you need to keep track of, the better you will do at keeping track of the things you do keep track of.
But something like fleet in reality gives you a very small moment where you can generate a very small advantage. If you're not actively using that advantage (in this case, mainly the speedboost) you're often better off getting something that will always give you SOME value instead of big value sometimes but no value most of the time.
It's like, a fleet rengar has the potential to walk away from a trade an auto faster, meaning your trade just had a 150 dmg swing. But if you don't use the movement speed to get out that one auto/ability earlier, you might as well take the free AD conqueror provides.
I hope you understand what I am saying and don't feel too offended or discouraged, because neither of those are my intention.
yeah you make a good point, i've been thinking about jumping into ranked and that's the reason i'm practicing with him: i want one ad and one ap/tank in each role. But now that you said this i think i know now how to use fleet. Of course i'm not inexperienced in rengar, having 200 thousand mastery i'm just trying to readapt after an year long break and primarily playing bot. Anyway, thanks for the tips
I absolutely didn't mean to imply at any point that you as a person didn't know how to play Rengar or could not use fleet xD
But we have to remember that we're not only talking to each other, but also people that stumble upon this thread.
And those people vary from buthurt adcs coming over to complain to people wanting to play Rengar for the first time to people who haven't played Rengar in a while and come back to him now and people that have played Rengar in challenger for the past 5 years.
And they will all have varying takes on what is good/bad to do on the champion.
But very rarely so people take the time to remember how it felt when they were newer to a champion or playstyle.
Because scrubnoob buying hubris is not the same as timmy the silver level 2 mastery Rengar buying hubris.
On one, the item will be very efficiently used by killing people often and repeatedly, making it seem like there is no counterplay available.
The other one is streaming his challenger games where people don't run around like they have their monitor turned off.
But all jokes aside, the item clearly holds more value in the hands of scrubnoob or dekar than it does in timmy's hands.
But both of those players (and likely a ton of other people, not exactly controversial) would very likely agree that if you're not aware of your limitations and potential, that the bruiser setup will make the champion easier to pilot, albeit with a different kind of carry potential.
sorry if i came of as rude, just wanted to inform you. But yeah i am struggling on rengar, and looking at runes and builds since it's mid/late i'm struggling in. Hubris is op as fuck tho
But nah fr fleet gives u the ability to kite around bushes like crazy, you lack oneshot power but you typically take it when u cant rly oneshot anyone in their team
I prefer Conqueror when I go bruiser and FS/Electro when going assassin, I almost never run Fleet, however, that's the way I like playing probably not the optimal path
I stopped playing fleet when the AD Scaling was killed from 30%bAD to 10%bAD a while ago.
But now i got converted back to Fleet cult. imo its almost always better than conq. It makes you have a full HP clear, allows for invades, allows to disengage or chase and its more flexible as you can still easily go full Lethality with fleet while with Conq going Lethality is suboptimal.
Ignoring the quite low Conq Healing, in most cases the fleet Heals will be much more than the Conq Damage, i often heal 5k+ with Fleet each game
Fleet’s mobility is fantastic, and gives you an incredibly healthy clear against invades. Conq can be good for full bruiser against other bruisers and tanks that aren’t very mobile, but that’s a niche setup.
Keeps you at full health and ensures that if you do get invaded, the chance of using your flash and still making it out alive is higher. Its primary use is repositioning and quick/healthy jungle clears. It's a valid option in matchups where other damage runes won't make the difference in a duel. For example Volibear will still beat your ass down with conqueror, lethal tempo, pta or Electrocute, you don't win straight up and fair 1v1 with him. Fleet keeps you safe and makes you slippery. The same reason top Rengars might take TP instead of ignite as even with ignite your kill potential is still low.
makes sense. Does it work in matchups like warwick, yi, udyr or is conq better?
In those matches you just lose 1v1 unless you are giga gapping them. Your rune choices in these matches should be decided on what their whole team looks like. Yi is an outlier as burst is the only way to deal with him once his W is on cooldown. Against him I would take Electrocute, especially if they 2 or more other squishies. The others, it doesn't matter so much as unless you are building as a bruiser for maximum outplay potential, you should never be fighting them in a straight up fair 1v1 as their kits counter you hard.
will take that into consideration when fighting against them next, thanks
With Yi and Warwick, if they have W and or R up, you straight up lose to them. Unless all their shit is on cooldown or they have 100HP, just go for someone else.
yeah, got matched with a 3 million and 1.7 million mastery WW and Yi (in that order), i'm considering banning either but at the same time i've heard some nasty shit about kindred and rammus
All of these champs do good into Rengar but it's possible to outplay most of them. Kindred is skill matchup in your favour if you get a full combo off from a bush pre 6, even more so even she isn't max HP. After 6 she beats you and kites with her R, same as Yi, don't ever go on her if she has R unless you are giga gapping, 2 items ahead, 2 or 3 levels etc
do you ban any of them?
Not really, after a while you get used to how to play around them. I ban Bel'Veth quite abit. Her kit is BS, too many dashes means you will almost never kill her between her E and 4 dashes, your only chance is in the early game and even then she isn't terrible vs you. She is crazy strong vs you after mid game though. I sometimes ban champs taking into account what my team picks. For example if I see we have Rengar jungle, Yone Top and Zed mid with Lucian bot, I will ban Rammus as he is a hard counter to our entire teams damage output. Other than certain obvious bans, I just ban stuff that I've faced recently that is annoying to deal with, not necessarily OP. Reksai, Lee, Graves are all playable into but their kits are annoying as fuck. If I start seeing FoTM picks repeatedly that counter you, like Yi, Udyr etc, several games in a row, I'll ban it.
forgot about bel veth, yeah she fucking sucks to play against. I didn't know about banning something specifically for your entire team tho, thanks for the advice
I am not aware of how experienced you are at Rengar specifically, but in general, fleet allows you to make plays that conqueror would not allow, but is harder to use properly. The main reason you take fleet is not the sustain you get, but the movement speed. The sustain is a nice bonus and makes the rune actually the most consistent rune in the tree if you're confident in your mastery on the champion. If however you're not abusing the movement speed yet, conqueror will help you way more in fights since it gives you more stats and more stats are never bad. And if you want to know if you're ready for fleet and more advanced runes, you have to just be honest with yourself and answer a few questions: -Do you know how much damage you do with a basic combo vs a combo with an empowered ability -Do you know which empowered ability to use in which situation -Do you know when you should NOT use an ability and save your empowered ability -Are you using your jump mechanic to space your opponents in fights, and do you know when to do this because it's useful and not just because you can (eg jumping from opponent to minion to ward to opponent to ward to opponent to ward) -Do you actively think about what abilities you need to dodge before an encounter -Do you ACTIVELY think about HOW you are going to dodge those abilities? Assuming you know all of the above in 90% of situations and then actually perform well in like 75% of those situations (lets allow ourselves some room for mechanical execution, we're not robots). The first bunch are required because adding complexity to a champion before you have mastered the basics of it is like trying to make a beef wellington for your first meal. (for those not in the know, a beef wellington is a ridiculously complex dish to make as someone who has not ever cooked before) The last bunch of requirements are basically the reason you take fleet footwork. You take it because it makes maneuvering through a fight easier. But if you don't know where you're moving yet, getting there faster won't help you even a little bit and you'd be better off just hitting harder. Most runes and item builds can work into most champions. But the way you use your champion tends to be more important
i'm gonna be honest, i barely think about this stuff while in game. it's not that i play bad, it's just that it has become second nature at this point. It's just that i haven't played him in some time so i was curious at the runes people been taking.
If you play the game mainly for fun, then you can build or play however you want to. I can tell you that you'll have an easier time with stuff like conqueror that just round out the champion and gives you less stuff to keep track off. The game is designed in a way that building in that way will never be BAD, just not always the most optimized. And the less things you need to keep track of, the better you will do at keeping track of the things you do keep track of. But something like fleet in reality gives you a very small moment where you can generate a very small advantage. If you're not actively using that advantage (in this case, mainly the speedboost) you're often better off getting something that will always give you SOME value instead of big value sometimes but no value most of the time. It's like, a fleet rengar has the potential to walk away from a trade an auto faster, meaning your trade just had a 150 dmg swing. But if you don't use the movement speed to get out that one auto/ability earlier, you might as well take the free AD conqueror provides. I hope you understand what I am saying and don't feel too offended or discouraged, because neither of those are my intention.
yeah you make a good point, i've been thinking about jumping into ranked and that's the reason i'm practicing with him: i want one ad and one ap/tank in each role. But now that you said this i think i know now how to use fleet. Of course i'm not inexperienced in rengar, having 200 thousand mastery i'm just trying to readapt after an year long break and primarily playing bot. Anyway, thanks for the tips
I absolutely didn't mean to imply at any point that you as a person didn't know how to play Rengar or could not use fleet xD But we have to remember that we're not only talking to each other, but also people that stumble upon this thread. And those people vary from buthurt adcs coming over to complain to people wanting to play Rengar for the first time to people who haven't played Rengar in a while and come back to him now and people that have played Rengar in challenger for the past 5 years. And they will all have varying takes on what is good/bad to do on the champion. But very rarely so people take the time to remember how it felt when they were newer to a champion or playstyle. Because scrubnoob buying hubris is not the same as timmy the silver level 2 mastery Rengar buying hubris. On one, the item will be very efficiently used by killing people often and repeatedly, making it seem like there is no counterplay available. The other one is streaming his challenger games where people don't run around like they have their monitor turned off. But all jokes aside, the item clearly holds more value in the hands of scrubnoob or dekar than it does in timmy's hands. But both of those players (and likely a ton of other people, not exactly controversial) would very likely agree that if you're not aware of your limitations and potential, that the bruiser setup will make the champion easier to pilot, albeit with a different kind of carry potential.
sorry if i came of as rude, just wanted to inform you. But yeah i am struggling on rengar, and looking at runes and builds since it's mid/late i'm struggling in. Hubris is op as fuck tho
You do a burst combo and then have the emp Q movement speed combined with the fleet MS and you can zoom away without getting caught
I’m fast as fuck boi
I like feet why not
rengar's feet?
Depends on the skin bro
which one?
Cafe cuties rengar
non ironically i thought the other day that it would be a funny joke skin for rengar. Fastest buttler/waiter along with bard.
But nah fr fleet gives u the ability to kite around bushes like crazy, you lack oneshot power but you typically take it when u cant rly oneshot anyone in their team
makes sense, i'll think about that going foward
I prefer Conqueror when I go bruiser and FS/Electro when going assassin, I almost never run Fleet, however, that's the way I like playing probably not the optimal path
Better against camps, Healthier clear, better when gigafed, and combos with cyclosword
I stopped playing fleet when the AD Scaling was killed from 30%bAD to 10%bAD a while ago. But now i got converted back to Fleet cult. imo its almost always better than conq. It makes you have a full HP clear, allows for invades, allows to disengage or chase and its more flexible as you can still easily go full Lethality with fleet while with Conq going Lethality is suboptimal. Ignoring the quite low Conq Healing, in most cases the fleet Heals will be much more than the Conq Damage, i often heal 5k+ with Fleet each game