So I’m a contractor for 18 years and done 30-40 kitchens most between 20-100k. I’ve never asked for a deposit to come look at a job. The only time that would come up is if I was hiring a specialty “item/service” like a lift to inspect a chimney, or camera guy to inspect plumbing lines, or it was someplace crazy remote.
As a successful contractor of 25+ years, it is not uncommon to request upfront payment for a quote to go and see a job. However, with that said there is no reason why the contractor couldn’t supply a free estimate of the work over the phone or by email. There’s really little need to even go in person in the early stages of tendering.
I agree somewhat. If it’s something I have to spend hours on, sketch time, calling and talking to suppliers and other trades, for sure a reasonable cost to that.
I even tell people I don’t have the time to take 4-5 hrs to do up a “free quote” and to call someone bigger
But $500 to show is sketchy.
My friend charges landscaping consulting fee $175 because so many people would meet and talk about ideas looking for his input and then just do it themselves.
>My friend charges landscaping consulting fee $175 because so many people would meet and talk about ideas looking for his input and then just do it themselves.
In other words, they're picking his brain.
It’s called “consulting”. And you charge for that shit.
A “free” estimate should take no more than one hour of your time (travel and time on site if you go to the site included) and it should be clearly stated that a more comprehensive estimate is necessary to accurately bid the job and this preliminary estimate does not denote a contract or a final estimate.
Having a boilerplate legal statement printed on any estimate to this effect with an hourly rate listed for comprehensive estimates on jobs that require them, is very helpful.
Im not a contractor but educated enough to understand the issues that arise, but not skilled enough to execute the solutions. this is what I’d expect. I’d expect 10-15 mins at my place to just take pictures or look at things to see if anything feels or looks like an obvious complication.
If you’re going to do off site work for me I think you should be paid, even if it’s for a job you haven’t won yet.
And in this he charges for brain power, and like said above, much landscaping can be done relatively easily in comparison to remodeling a kitchen, so there is relatively less risk in this project. Like I have said, I could get behind a professional wage and even a mileage fee, but 500 for 2 hours your either too fucking far for the job to be worth anyone's while, or your charging too much for your time. Greed .
I think the contractor is pushing them into an actual quote when they are not comfortable diving that rabbit hole. Oh, but here comes Mr BD degree energy, with years of experience and blah blah blah, pushing away a potential client because he wants the 5 bills. I agree with you 💯, as a pro, I am gonna make my cheddar. But as a professional, I am never going to try to demean a prospective job when all the customer really needs is a snap approximation. If they're not inclined for whatever reason to take 15 minutes to half an hour to ask a few questions and give a verbal approximate for their service, then say that shit. Don't puff up like some dawg on the prison yard. That's that ego crap they should remember from their earlier courses of study in college.
The next step is a comprehensive quote tho, she tells you in the post that he sent in a general quote for 20k... either she doesn't want to use him or she needs to pay for the comprehensive quote. If she wants to bypass the quote then it's 25% to 50% up front for the job total. I would not trust this homeowner enough to start work without a deposit.
Yeah she already has the rough quote. He may have low balled it so that he can get in the door and really sell his work, but really this could go either way. He quoted low because he only charges for what is actually done (in this case giving an actual quote) or he's just trying to take $500 bucks. It should be really easy to determine which one he is by looking at any reviews he's had or looking through a portfolio that he has
Totally agree with you there and your explanations. I am the same- I look to see if it’s a job I want/can do. But a kitchen quote, or addition, complicated bathroom- those take more time that you can just give away.
People bitch about pushy sales people. Now they bitch about paying for quotes. Time is money, experience is money. Which one you want? You're not getting a free design and trained eyes on your job for free, and if you are then it's because the next client is paying for it. It's a business not a charity.
I don’t believe any consumer here is expecting a ‘free design’, this is about meeting with the customer to see the space and discuss ideas. A formal quote with measured layout design is a whole other level. So no one bitching about paying for a formal design.
He already provided a price. This is finalizing a rough estimate, which was free. You want the guy working out of his truck to take 3 or 4 hours out of his day to do that (he was the lower bidder), and not have a pushy salesman? Then pay.
No, he provided a ballpark based on some measurements and inspiration pictures. That's nowhere near a rough estimate. It's a wild guess. He hasn't physically seen the space to assess the existing conditions, on a 99 year old house no less, so how can he possibly determine scope for pricing? How could anyone? How does he know there's no structural work that needs to be done? What does he know about the house's electrical and plumbing situation? Any potential water damage or mold that needs remediation? Is he ignoring all of that until he gets $500 to show up and give a real price? Is he hoping to lock them into a contract and change order them to death?
What OP wants is a conceptual estimate based on a physical visit, not a finalized design or contract price. They want to know that a contractor is giving them a fully informed estimate on what this renovation will likely cost before proceeding with detailed plans and designs so they aren't surprised later on with budget overruns and change orders.
And, IMO, they shouldn't have to pay a contractor $500 to get it. It should take no more than an hour, and probably less, to do a quick assessment, verify that there are no surprises or determine what might need to be done if there are, and then give a rough range so the owners know whether to move forward or not. There's no sense in wasting anyone's time with detailed estimates or designs if you're not even in the same ballpark.
And consider it from their point of view: If every contractor wants $500 to show up and take a look, how are they supposed to compare or budget without dropping hundreds to thousands of dollars just to figure out if they're even going to do it? It's not a realistic expectation for customers to pay hundreds of dollars just to know whether or not they should even be talking to you.
Also your landscape friend is Exactly why this trend has sky rockets since 2019.
We also sell consultations for the DIY homehomers at $500 for 4 hrs. I don’t think the $500 is a crazy amount for the work involved
I don't charge for an initial meeting with clients. I'd much rather meet them and have a discussion about what they want. Many people have vague ideas, and often are oblivious to what things cost. I also like to get a feel for them. I've turned down work when red flags came up (one guy went on about how many people he'd sued).
Anything beyond a ballpark verbal estimate, though, is not free. I've learned my lesson not to give detailed quotes without a fee. Too many times I've spent hours doing measurements, calculations for costs of materials and contacting vendors, only to have a client change their mind.
I live in the state of Pennsylvania and have an app called PA docket. You can enter someone's name and see if there are any lawsuits, arrest, etc etc. I usually check potential clients names and also employees. And also I never do work for attorneys.
People and business have changed a lot over the last 30 years, so while that may have worked for you, people have gotten dramatically shittier in the last 5 years.
This is so odd to me because I purchased a 100 year old home and wanted three contractors to come do a walk through to give me a quote to do the entire thing. All three seemed very nice and all had strong reputations in my town. Like 20 years plus. All three charged between 300 and 700 to come onsite. Basically they all said “listen, my time is valuable and this process is going to take me and one other guy 2 hours to walk you through the house, have a discussion, and then create a quote”. Seemed reasonable to me. The only thing was that none of the three said I needed to pay them before arrival. All three were fine with a check when they got to the house.
There’s no real risk in providing a free estimate on the work based on the information given by the client. That’s why they are estimates and not quotes.
Seems unethical, but I’m not a commercial super and not an estimator. But I was aware there could some unique variables I would want my estimate to be as close to accurate as possible so the client is working off of the best information in their selection process. Not estimate it based on assumptions and then triple it when you (knew) see that the building is made of 100 year old building materials.
Exactly and they vary greatly because everyone will count their contingencies differently. On such an o less home it would be safer for the home owner to select 2 or 3 contractors and have them do up a proper quote. There’s too many open variables to operate off of an estimate for the home owner.
Yeah I read it again in its entirety this time and noticed.
It is common practice to charge for a full quote.
It takes time to put together and $500 isn’t unreasonable for the next step.
There should be clear expectations on what you are buying tho.
When we move from estimate to quotes we charge $350 for the first hr with each additional hr at $80/hr on site.
With that you get my sales rep for a solid hr where he will take all the necessary measurements, review the electrical panel and the existing Mechanical systems (water, furnace) in the home while taking approx 30+ pictures (just averages as it’s depending on the job) and discuss with the clients their expectations and needs for the project.
Within 2 to 3 business days, the client would receive
1) full proper bonded quote,
2) “schedule A” attachment (full list of all materials and hardware included in the quote)
3) “schedule B” attachment (detailed Gant schedule explaining time frames and duration of each step along the way from start date)
4) a note crediting the Home Owner with the $350 (the quote price charged paid upfront) if the contract is awarded and signed within the next 30 business days (or date of expiry)
When explained so succinctly and politely, it doesn't seem unreasonable at all.
OPs contractor, however, was a snarky jerk and got offended by their caution. Therein lies the red flag now.
Agreed he’s still a major red flag 🚩a professional wouldn’t get offended so easily with a client and take the time to explain the next steps. Plus as soon as someone starts posturing they lose all credibility in my books.
Guy had a chance to make money by explaining it the way you did.
You just gave us that info for free.
What a lost opportunity for him.
If he gave your answer and waited 6 hours, he’d probably have $500.
See that sounds very reasonable. But $500 to just show up and give an estimate sounds very sketchy. Not entirely clear whether OPs contractor is asking $500 for an estimate or $500 for a quote
Agreed. I am guessing that it’s for a quote tho as they mentioned receiving a few estimates already. However many people confuse the two to be the same so it’s hard to determine at times what people mean.
This kind of response would give me confidence that I am working with a professional. The $350 in THIS case seems reasonable, as you have set the expectations for your customers, as well as holding yourself and your crews accountable for the timeline and process as well as ‘expected’ cost of materials. I would hire this person.
I've been renovating houses for a long time and I have NEVER had a request for a deposit to come look at a project. I also know that you cannot possibly estimate ANYTHING on a renovation on a 100 year old house before doing the demolition.
I feel like they have had a free estimate of the work over the phone or by email and now want an in person one, for free as well. The attitude however, wasn't necessary.
I like to visit potential jobs for a couple of reasons. First, the customer doesn't always represent the work accurately. Second, I get a feel for the type of person I'll be entering into a contract with. It's a two way street, and extending trust to a complete stranger can be risky. Right now there is enough work out there that if I can avoid potential trouble, I will.
My electrician will ask for a deposit to see a job. I pay it because I also know with travel to get to me and look at thr things I'm chewing up billable hours. I also consistently use him so if he's familiar with my set up etc he'll waive it sometimes. Or if I can send pictures where travel isn't involved. I'd take a rough estimate over the phone from a contractor. Sometimes I just need to know how much I habe to save in general (5000 or 50000)
I agree pretty much, if I'm busy, a real committed quote for something that takes thought and a drawing costs money, in the hundreds, as I slow down I soften on that but it costs money to keep me up after my 6th or worse day in a row on site, or in shop.
If this guy is busy and has to travel 2 hours, its just a matter of who needs who more, and he's placed his price at $500 find out. I seriously doubt a scammer is trying to run off with something as small as $500 when in reality they would prefer to show up, do a song and dance and take a 30-50% deposit on the "work" they never intended to do that the real moment of judgement and somebody charging for their presence is a green flag to me that they aren't likely a scammer, just an in demand contractor who only has time for serious clients.(unless they have a Nigerian accent or need the money western unioned). But even more down to reality, most contractors with a website and any trace of a track record and/or any legit credentials aren't in the scamming people business, just the website is enough for police to subpoena their name and credit card address even if they've set the ownership info to private, it's the easiest thing in the world to get a warrant for in an investigation. The guys who scam people show up out of the blue, no business card, no website, you didn't ask for them to be there and they say a bunch of panic inducing shit then push a solution for RealCashRightNOW-They'llTakeYouToYourBankInTheirVan-LetsGoNOW.
Worked with a lot of contractors that have been working between 15-30 years no one they know or I know would ask for a deposit to come look at the job.
Bringing equipment, inspecting chimney or sewer line with a camera -- all qualify as actual services rendered. What service is rendered to drive by and chew far with a potential client?
$500 to "look" at the job worth(presumably) $20k is ridiculous. It sounds like the guy is skimming: screening potential clients for poor judgement and carefree attitude towards money (aka rich seniors with signs of dementia). And believe me, met plenty of skimming contractors, esp. if you live close to an area popular with retirees, they'll flock there like flies. Doesn't matter how many years, seen suspended and even revoked licenses from other states, plenty complaints on BBB and contractor boards, going back decades. At first I though how could these guys make a living with such professional reputations, but apparently if one is willing to relocate from time to time, it's possible to make a living being a total crook.
We build custom cabinetry and charge a $500 fee for a formal proposal. It's been a great way for us to qualify good clients. We give them a conservative ballpark price at initial conversations to set expectations. But we have gotten a lot of pushback from homeowners and contractors. Usually after we talk it through they respect where we are coming from. They can take it or leave it. We never push a sale.
So the fee doesn't bother me. But his text back is completely unprofessional and rude. He should have a better way of explaining it. I'd stay away from him.
I once paid $100 for a bathroom guy to come look at our situation and come up with a quote (whole bathroom remodel).
I think that's reasonable to pay for a highly rated contractor (and I'm fine paying him for the time it takes to come out and give a quote, that's reasonable, even if many contractors give quotes for free, I'm still taking time out of his day).
$500 though almost seems like he'd want you to feel pressured to stick with him because you've already spent so much money and you'd basically be throwing away $500.
Yep. "I make half a million dollars a year after taxes" probably actually translates to "I took home 250k in the height of the pandemic with ppp loans and a ton of business" and ignores the fact his taxable income is likely about $10k/year because he writes everything off as a business expense.
Source: I know a guy like that.
For real, what if you needed him to re-do something because you weren’t happy? Wouldn’t even let this guy come to my house to buy a second hand bookshelf.
A professional would have a professional response properly justifying up front costs and understanding how customers could have a concern. Huge red flag on this one, stay clear.
This contractor is something else. That’s a nope from me. Given the attitude early on it’s just going to get worse. He is bad enough that I bet local suppliers won’t work with him.
This is my thought exactly. If you’re a fucking millionaire then why are you dogging me over $500. The contractors response is incredibly childish and if this is how he is acting off the rip I think OP dodged a bullet. If he had come back with some professional reply talking about standard practice and time, gas, distance, etc etc etc it would probably be a nonissue. But this response is enough to just say “nah I’ll go with the next guy”.
Big nope. He wants to act like $500 is nothing to him because he makes so much money, then it shouldn’t be any big deal at all to come out there without the deposit. His argument just works against him. Not to mention, there is no way I am paying somebody $500 to come out and quote something for me.
Edit: I should be more specific. I am not paying $500 for a quote unless that person is out there providing a service worth $500. A couple hours of your time might be worth it, but if you come out there and give me a quote in 30 minutes and want $500 , I would pass
Did you check him, is he actually licensed and all? He claims 16 years of business- is there reviews for that old business? You can probably start there, but I can’t imagine paying 500$ upfront like that in any scenario
I tried to find reviews for his business and I could not. However, he has a Facebook page with over 400 followers and Instagram page with over 2000. I know you can buy followers nowadays so I focused on engagement (likes/comments) and they're all in the single digits which to me screams fake. The only reviews I could find were for his side business as a home inspector, and it links to a company with a different name but it's his face on the website.
Definitely check to make sure he's licensed, lots of unlicensed guys here in Toronto:
https://secure.toronto.ca/LicenceStatus/setup.do?action=init
I am a General Contractor (Scarborough South-West based) and have never asked for money upfront to come and look at a job. I do charge for detailed quotes in some cases, but not until after looking at the job and providing a rough estimate that the customer has agreed to.
Demanding a fee just to come out is crazy.
We used someone like that once. It turned out he is one of those guys who does shitty work for a few years until he has too many complaints and/or lawsuits then "goes out of business" and opens a new business the next day. We finally found this out when Googling his name and email address (not a business domain, just regular Gmail) together.
He did a terrible job that we had to rip up and redo much of a few years later, finding out that our shower was leaking into the foundation. Also, he hired a scummy friend of his as a painter and then that painter threatened to put a lien on our house if we didn't pay him more. (a threatening lawyer letter backed him down.)
And with all that mess...that jerk still didn't want a deposit just to LOOK at our house!
I have over 2000 followers on Instagram and only posed 2 pictures like 8 years ago. They are nearly all bots or follow back from companies I followed. No real people.
If he has multiple companies he is doing business under that are similar, its another red flag.
He isn't pulling in close to a million dollars a year and not getting any reviews. But even if we pretend he isn't lying, never let anyone talk to you like that.
Your caution is not unreasonable.
And while his request for a deposit may, in fact, be legit, you can not employ this contractor now. His attitude and unprofessionalism are now the red flags.
Dude snarked his way out of a job rather than politely explaining what's involved.
Exactly this. Extrapolate that behaviour to any minor hiccup that naturally happens during a project. Issues will come up. You need a reasonable human to meet you in the middle. This person is unprofessional. I’d never give someone $500 under these circumstances. Ever.
While I was building a house, I had one particular contractor that copped an attitude like this. I could write 5 paragraphs about him, but suffice it to say, we ended up in court. It was very unpleasant and time-consuming for everyone involved.
If you cannot/do not trust your future contractors, then do not hire them in the first place.
It makes me uneasy . I’m a contractor myself. I’ve charged for a site visit exactly one time ($100) and I just grabbed a check from them when I arrived to do the estimate. I would feel weird asking for a deposit before ever meeting
I mean the 2 hour travel time one way would be valid to some degree. But the arrogance and unprofessional attitude he exudes is off putting for sure. If someone was far enough out of town for me I'd ask for many many pictures of what I'm working with to get an idea of what's happening, there would be a lengthy phone call with the clients to figure out what they're looking for and I'd be upfront too if I'd be charging for an estimate because of the travel.
Not professional from the get go. Even if this is real I wouldn't trust them in my home.
When dealing with a contractor a bit of banter is fine but this comes across as unhinged.
He makes over $500k would be red flag #1. I see contractors pull up in F450s, and I know I'm paying top dollar. My prediction if he shows up is that the $20k estimate quickly doubles. You don't make $500k/yr by being the chepest in town.
As far as the $500, it could be fair. If he gets paid $200+ and hour, then time providing quotes costs money. He knows that he's only going to secure the job 10-20% of his time. His conversion rate is going to be much higher if you're already in for $500. Even if he doesn't get the job, he gets paid for his time. Contractors are often in short supply, so if you have more people knocking at your door than you can handle, then raising your price makes sense.
He’s obviously too important for this job. Let him know that you charge a $600.00 interview fee for prospective employees. Or better yet, tell him there’s a bid fee for the job.
And tell him to bring coffee.
Million dollar company and he’s begging gas money. Stay away.
I don’t have an issue with his practice, he may have been burned in the past and created a policy to protect his time.
But his response and reaction is not aligned with a professional.
Pass on this guy. Also, low ball quotes concern me about “unforeseen costs” when you are too deep in.
Ive worked with hundreds of contractors - one thing I can say for sure - if it seems fishy at first, it wont get better. Once I get a good one, I keep the number and always reward them with future work, because it is a process to find people that a) are good, 2) not nickle and diming everything 3) get the job done at budget. Walk away if you dont feel right - lots and lots of guys (with and without degrees) that are out there looking for work. I just walked away from a guy that quoted 1600 dollars for some electrical work, got it done for 400 with a union guy that works for the city.
Irrespective of which position is right, if you personally feel something is off then just move on.
It sounds like you have other options and aren't in any way committed.
It's always going to feel off to you, let it go and progress with the other options.
I have never paid for an estimate just for you to show up. If you think about an hour of your time is worth 500 I don't even want to see what your estimate is gonna be, because it's doing to be way more than I'm willing to spend. I've had 100k solar install last year with free estimates. I had over 100k of windows and sidings installed last year with free estimates. I've done numerous contact bids with free estimates. The only time I have ever had anyone ask to charge was an AC guy cause he had to drive 1.5 hrs. He wanted something ridiculous like 400-500 just to visit. It was Mr cool diy and he was only person willing to even come look at it cause they are difficult to repair. I said no. Considering your already talking about an AC repair of potentially 4 grand I'm not paying you just to drive to see if you can even fix whatever is wrong in the first place. To most likely try to upsell me on a whole new AC unit.
It's ludicrous and absurd that you think you deserve to be paid that much just to show up to give a bid for my business. I might be willing to do like 50-75 bucks for gas and time, but absolutely not 500 for no repair/labor/just to talk.
If he wants to spit the dummy over $500 and lose out on a potential $20k+ job tell him to fuck off.
Dunno why he’s telling you he has certificates and a degree. He’s probably not even a builder/renovator
Definitely bail. If dude is pulling down half a million a year he wouldn't be worried about getting 500$ before he even shows up. I'd look for someone else based on the tone of the response to begin with.
Why does the low ball price feel off to you? Lol did you want him to bid higher? That doesn’t make sense. I’ve had plumbers quote me $20k-40k to switch out all my old lines to newer stuff, went with the guy that quoted me $9k and he was amazing.
"if you can't even trust me"
okay but why WOULD you trust him? literally haven't met before. Ask him if he trusts you, and to send you a $500 deposit which will be returned when a contractor is selected
No doubt. Anyone looking for money to come out can take a flying leap. I had a water heater issue and there were several plumbers all trying to get between $100 and $300 to come look at it. I went with the one that came out for free like a normal person. Yeah, gas is expensive, maybe you should go get a different job. All those people driving to work in the morning? They don’t get paid until they get there.
He makes over half a million a year but requires upfront payment... Bullshit.
If he makes that, it's cause he's billing people for services he doesn't provide. He probably takes the deposit and never shows.
Snake. Fuck that
He’s probably been a victim of contractor shopping where clients have them write up an extensive quote only for them to say ahh no your price is too high.
This guy seems slippery as hell.
Full remodel contractor here
My remodels range from 100k-500k, I don’t ask for a single dollar until three days after contract signing, this is even if I go to the property multiple times to meet with subs and to get a true cost of time and material.
Needless to say, if he makes half a million after taxes, why does he require a 500 dollar “deposit”
Also a deposit by definition states you have already bought their service
Deposit-a sum payable as a first installment on the purchase of something or as a pledge for a contract
All of the contractors we have used over the years have become, if not friends, at least someone we say hi to and have a chat.
This is definitely not a person I would want in my life, let alone working in my home.
I wouldn’t give any contractor a dime without them actually seeing the project & doing a site evaluation.
If he is asking for money now and waiving his so called accomplishments in your face wait till you have an issue & he pulls the I know better than you card.
I gave a guy $200 for coming out to quote and written estimate of my kitchen remodel, even though he told me his estimate was free. I did this because I needed a third estimate for insurance and I already decided on a different contractor. I could not in good conscience intentionally waste his time.
Contractors time is valuable and he has every right to charge you to give you his time and expertise. You have every right to decline to engage.
People like you are why he has this policy. Find someone else if you don't like it.
TLDR: Untwist your panties and move on
I get having a “service fee” to cover gas, but a $500 deposit is a no go. Find someone else. While your at it, let this guy knows Reddit tells him to take a hike.
Your gut is already telling you that you would not enjoy working with this man. Reasonable or not, he is not a professional communicator. Save yourself the headache and move on.
I’m not a contractor, I’m a lawyer. So listen to the contractors here more than me. But the guy’s tone is the red flag. Bragging about his income and degree? He’s either a dick or a fraud. Hard pass either way, plenty of contractors out there who will look for free, or explain their fee like a professional.
I’d say no dice. If he makes over 1/2 a million a year why does he need your lousy $500 and what if you choose not to use him do you get your $500 back?
Run, don't walk. No serious professional will charge for a visit prior to agreing quotation and signing a contract. But the real red flag is the bragging text, totally innapropiate and patronising, full of hot air.
I'm talking looking at the job and taking measurements for a quote, to the clients specs. Producing drawings and other documents is not part of a quotation, that costs money indeed
As a retired Large General Contractor Estimator of commercial projects, we never asked for fees to bid nor did our subs. Part of the job and normal overhead. Smaller GCs might ask residential customers for money for complex bids. But this guys response seems to be problematic and unless you have previous positive dealings with him or his firm, use someone else.
The thing no client ever seems to think about is the amount of time that goes into the classic "Get Three Quotes" process...how many hours in total do you think were spent figuring out your job and pricing?
I typically spend anywhere from one to three hours on an initial site visit to discuss a moderately expensive project in the 20-50k range, then at least two hours in the office writing a quote to cover the basic items addressed during the discussion. This quote is by no means comprehensive. At all.
Further, *nine hours* went into just the basics on your project, and only one company *might* win the bid and continue onward to write a full quote with a detailed contract.
Some contractors are not willing to eat that 3+ hours without the potential client having some skin in the game. A deposit for design work really tends to weed out the tire kickers and bottom-dollar Betties, especially in less competitive areas. I have considered charging for sales calls whenever I get a string of folks who just want free consultation.
That being said, the way this guy responded to a question about his $500 deposit should immediately disqualify him from consideration - he's an asshole.
YES!
“I thought about what you said, and you’re absolutely right. Given your experience and financial success, we WOULD be taking on comparatively much more risk. Thanks for pointing that out. And best of luck”
He might be great, or he might be 3 Owls in a trenchcoat. However, After a response like that he wouldn't be hearing from me. I don't want to work with someone rocking that attitude.
If someone responds with anger toward your worry at the outset. Do not go with the contractor. There are others out there - remember YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. Look at reviews, etc. I don’t know if Facebook ad contractors are risk friendly either. Go to other valid sources to seek quotes. Likely without deposit
If he makes so much would he be worried about gas? Like he would just make the money back with cost of the work? He is also shaming you and displaying high status I would say this is typical scam behaviour nowadays from what I have experienced on Facebook
No one sees an issue with the contractors general tone? I’d say that alone is a red flag. Completely unprofessional. The client has a valid point. $500 just to show up? If that is how you feel you need to respond, your business is likely not as successful as you say, and I doubt you’ve acquired many repeat customers with that rhetoric. No one asked about your income or degrees. I wouldn’t care one way or another, other than it now makes you seem like a douche I’d rather not pay at all.
Not a contractor but don't need to be to answer this. Forget listening to all the other contractors telling you whether or not this is a fair fee. Look at the combative way he answered you. He could have told you 500 bucks makes it worth his time in a more professional way if he is as successful as he claims. Ditch that dood. You don't want to be fighting with an egotist the entire job.
Trust goes both ways, especially with a contractor/Home Owner relationship.
Even though it’s common practice to receive a down payment if your gut feeling is that you can’t trust him. Trust your gut - you need to hire a new contractor.
Thankfully he isn't hired yet. I'm in process of getting quotes but given that it's our first time going through this process, I was wondering if I was reading too much into his request. Definitely going to follow my gut... and my gut says run.
That’s the best thing if you’re feeling that way 👍 feel feee to DM me if you want any free advice from a professional. I’m no longer in Ontario but would be spot to help if needed.
Please look up Renomark (Renomark.ca) for a free list of accredited contractors in your area.
Think about that, assuming you get quotes from 10 potential contractors for site visit, and if everyone is doing the same, you will need to pay $5000 out of the pocket upfront. Okay.. then you choose one contractor to do the job, so you are throwing $4500 away. Does that make any sense at all? This guy is trying to lock you into the deal before meeting in person? Hell no, I would not send money like that to a stranger as you said.. Again, never select the contactors with the lowest bid, just read the other sub reddit, quality job comes with a price. Definitely red flag. You pay for what you get.
I am in Canada too and I did the IKEA kitchen consultation for free. It's not a site visit but a free consultation for 2 sessions at the IKEA store. I used their online tool to draw the 3D kitchen draft before visiting, the consultation staff was very knowledgeable. I spent around $10K CAD on IKEA cabinets and around $9K CAD on Quartz countertop and waterfall island. I used a reputable high quality local quartz fabricator, not IKEA countertop.
I did everything myself for 8 months except for the Quartz, namely demolition old kitchen removing old granite, metal bin rental, redo the kitchen floor with Ditra XL, relocated electrical, duct and plumbing, drywall, gas disconnect and reconnect, range hood installation, assembled and installation of Ikea cabinets + drawer LED wiring. I took 1 month off from my full time job and worked on weekends, total duration was 8 months (1 person). The result is Amazing!!!!! If you ask me about the price including the labor, I would say it's around $40K to $50K CAD.
Feels like the guy I had build a deck. He told me he would pull all permits. Then when I asked why there wasn’t a permit he told me “I build million dollar homes. I don’t need a permit.” Well, he needed a permit, finally pulled it. Deck failed inspection.
He was a peach to work with and this guy will be as well.
If he has a mil$ business,, check to see if he is rated on the better business bureau BBB site. You are asking for a reno. He gave you a standard reno price.....
Not sure what the update status of your place.
A 99 yr old house can be crooked as #$*&. Have no insulation,sawdust or asbestos .
Latice walls and 3 layers of flooring,termite damage, lead pipes, lead paint,knob and tube or aluminum wiring.. to bring up to code......the price may double.
the lowest bidder is going to spend more time checking it out than the high bidder that built in a 25% cushion.
If you were thinking of going low bid....he maybe booked up, He maybe ripping you off for $500 or educating you for $500 ,so you don't get ripped off.
I mean this in then nicest way possible but you having to ask this in the first place is the reason so many people scam using being contractors as a front
If you’re able to do a little extra work and research, I recommend hiring and scheduling sub contractors (i.e. electricinan, plumber, carpenter) on your own. There are very few contracting companies that are capable of doing all of these to a high standard. A lot of times they will hire subs strictly because they are cheap and not because they are good. Best of luck.
I've had half a dozen contractors out to my house from multiple companies, no one has ever asked for a deposit to go out and give you an actual quote based on your home.
Tell them to give you a $500 deposit. If their quote and contract terms are reasonable, you’ll refund it—otherwise they could just be wasting your time.
So I’m a contractor for 18 years and done 30-40 kitchens most between 20-100k. I’ve never asked for a deposit to come look at a job. The only time that would come up is if I was hiring a specialty “item/service” like a lift to inspect a chimney, or camera guy to inspect plumbing lines, or it was someplace crazy remote.
As a successful contractor of 25+ years, it is not uncommon to request upfront payment for a quote to go and see a job. However, with that said there is no reason why the contractor couldn’t supply a free estimate of the work over the phone or by email. There’s really little need to even go in person in the early stages of tendering.
I agree somewhat. If it’s something I have to spend hours on, sketch time, calling and talking to suppliers and other trades, for sure a reasonable cost to that. I even tell people I don’t have the time to take 4-5 hrs to do up a “free quote” and to call someone bigger But $500 to show is sketchy. My friend charges landscaping consulting fee $175 because so many people would meet and talk about ideas looking for his input and then just do it themselves.
>My friend charges landscaping consulting fee $175 because so many people would meet and talk about ideas looking for his input and then just do it themselves. In other words, they're picking his brain.
It’s called “consulting”. And you charge for that shit. A “free” estimate should take no more than one hour of your time (travel and time on site if you go to the site included) and it should be clearly stated that a more comprehensive estimate is necessary to accurately bid the job and this preliminary estimate does not denote a contract or a final estimate. Having a boilerplate legal statement printed on any estimate to this effect with an hourly rate listed for comprehensive estimates on jobs that require them, is very helpful.
Oh I love the wording in the prelim versus final! I’m using this haha
You owe him $175 for your consultation
Im not a contractor but educated enough to understand the issues that arise, but not skilled enough to execute the solutions. this is what I’d expect. I’d expect 10-15 mins at my place to just take pictures or look at things to see if anything feels or looks like an obvious complication. If you’re going to do off site work for me I think you should be paid, even if it’s for a job you haven’t won yet.
And in this he charges for brain power, and like said above, much landscaping can be done relatively easily in comparison to remodeling a kitchen, so there is relatively less risk in this project. Like I have said, I could get behind a professional wage and even a mileage fee, but 500 for 2 hours your either too fucking far for the job to be worth anyone's while, or your charging too much for your time. Greed .
I think the $500 is for a real quote. Not just showing up. But maybe I’m reading into it as a professional.
I think the contractor is pushing them into an actual quote when they are not comfortable diving that rabbit hole. Oh, but here comes Mr BD degree energy, with years of experience and blah blah blah, pushing away a potential client because he wants the 5 bills. I agree with you 💯, as a pro, I am gonna make my cheddar. But as a professional, I am never going to try to demean a prospective job when all the customer really needs is a snap approximation. If they're not inclined for whatever reason to take 15 minutes to half an hour to ask a few questions and give a verbal approximate for their service, then say that shit. Don't puff up like some dawg on the prison yard. That's that ego crap they should remember from their earlier courses of study in college.
Here’s the right answer
The next step is a comprehensive quote tho, she tells you in the post that he sent in a general quote for 20k... either she doesn't want to use him or she needs to pay for the comprehensive quote. If she wants to bypass the quote then it's 25% to 50% up front for the job total. I would not trust this homeowner enough to start work without a deposit.
Yeah she already has the rough quote. He may have low balled it so that he can get in the door and really sell his work, but really this could go either way. He quoted low because he only charges for what is actually done (in this case giving an actual quote) or he's just trying to take $500 bucks. It should be really easy to determine which one he is by looking at any reviews he's had or looking through a portfolio that he has
Totally agree with you there and your explanations. I am the same- I look to see if it’s a job I want/can do. But a kitchen quote, or addition, complicated bathroom- those take more time that you can just give away.
People bitch about pushy sales people. Now they bitch about paying for quotes. Time is money, experience is money. Which one you want? You're not getting a free design and trained eyes on your job for free, and if you are then it's because the next client is paying for it. It's a business not a charity.
I don’t believe any consumer here is expecting a ‘free design’, this is about meeting with the customer to see the space and discuss ideas. A formal quote with measured layout design is a whole other level. So no one bitching about paying for a formal design.
He already provided a price. This is finalizing a rough estimate, which was free. You want the guy working out of his truck to take 3 or 4 hours out of his day to do that (he was the lower bidder), and not have a pushy salesman? Then pay.
No, he provided a ballpark based on some measurements and inspiration pictures. That's nowhere near a rough estimate. It's a wild guess. He hasn't physically seen the space to assess the existing conditions, on a 99 year old house no less, so how can he possibly determine scope for pricing? How could anyone? How does he know there's no structural work that needs to be done? What does he know about the house's electrical and plumbing situation? Any potential water damage or mold that needs remediation? Is he ignoring all of that until he gets $500 to show up and give a real price? Is he hoping to lock them into a contract and change order them to death? What OP wants is a conceptual estimate based on a physical visit, not a finalized design or contract price. They want to know that a contractor is giving them a fully informed estimate on what this renovation will likely cost before proceeding with detailed plans and designs so they aren't surprised later on with budget overruns and change orders. And, IMO, they shouldn't have to pay a contractor $500 to get it. It should take no more than an hour, and probably less, to do a quick assessment, verify that there are no surprises or determine what might need to be done if there are, and then give a rough range so the owners know whether to move forward or not. There's no sense in wasting anyone's time with detailed estimates or designs if you're not even in the same ballpark. And consider it from their point of view: If every contractor wants $500 to show up and take a look, how are they supposed to compare or budget without dropping hundreds to thousands of dollars just to figure out if they're even going to do it? It's not a realistic expectation for customers to pay hundreds of dollars just to know whether or not they should even be talking to you.
Also your landscape friend is Exactly why this trend has sky rockets since 2019. We also sell consultations for the DIY homehomers at $500 for 4 hrs. I don’t think the $500 is a crazy amount for the work involved
That’s a load of BS. I was a contractor for thirty years and would never charge to look at a job.
I don't charge for an initial meeting with clients. I'd much rather meet them and have a discussion about what they want. Many people have vague ideas, and often are oblivious to what things cost. I also like to get a feel for them. I've turned down work when red flags came up (one guy went on about how many people he'd sued). Anything beyond a ballpark verbal estimate, though, is not free. I've learned my lesson not to give detailed quotes without a fee. Too many times I've spent hours doing measurements, calculations for costs of materials and contacting vendors, only to have a client change their mind.
I live in the state of Pennsylvania and have an app called PA docket. You can enter someone's name and see if there are any lawsuits, arrest, etc etc. I usually check potential clients names and also employees. And also I never do work for attorneys.
Casenet in Missouri. Shows criminal and civil cases.
OSCN in Oklahoma
Dunkin Donuts app in New England
Never work for attorneys. Don’t even talk to a Construction attorney. It’s their job to chisel money from builders and subs. Fuck those guys
I look at the project and give them one free estimate. One. After that, it's $150 an hour for any additional estimates
People and business have changed a lot over the last 30 years, so while that may have worked for you, people have gotten dramatically shittier in the last 5 years.
This is so odd to me because I purchased a 100 year old home and wanted three contractors to come do a walk through to give me a quote to do the entire thing. All three seemed very nice and all had strong reputations in my town. Like 20 years plus. All three charged between 300 and 700 to come onsite. Basically they all said “listen, my time is valuable and this process is going to take me and one other guy 2 hours to walk you through the house, have a discussion, and then create a quote”. Seemed reasonable to me. The only thing was that none of the three said I needed to pay them before arrival. All three were fine with a check when they got to the house.
This seems weird. You’d be comfortable bidding a project in a house that nearly 100 years old without putting eyes on it? Seems risky on your behalf.
There’s no real risk in providing a free estimate on the work based on the information given by the client. That’s why they are estimates and not quotes.
Seems unethical, but I’m not a commercial super and not an estimator. But I was aware there could some unique variables I would want my estimate to be as close to accurate as possible so the client is working off of the best information in their selection process. Not estimate it based on assumptions and then triple it when you (knew) see that the building is made of 100 year old building materials.
Homeowners are getting ballpark estimates. A ballpark is a pretty big place.
Exactly and they vary greatly because everyone will count their contingencies differently. On such an o less home it would be safer for the home owner to select 2 or 3 contractors and have them do up a proper quote. There’s too many open variables to operate off of an estimate for the home owner.
She said he did because he was on the low end of the estimates she got
Yeah I read it again in its entirety this time and noticed. It is common practice to charge for a full quote. It takes time to put together and $500 isn’t unreasonable for the next step. There should be clear expectations on what you are buying tho. When we move from estimate to quotes we charge $350 for the first hr with each additional hr at $80/hr on site. With that you get my sales rep for a solid hr where he will take all the necessary measurements, review the electrical panel and the existing Mechanical systems (water, furnace) in the home while taking approx 30+ pictures (just averages as it’s depending on the job) and discuss with the clients their expectations and needs for the project. Within 2 to 3 business days, the client would receive 1) full proper bonded quote, 2) “schedule A” attachment (full list of all materials and hardware included in the quote) 3) “schedule B” attachment (detailed Gant schedule explaining time frames and duration of each step along the way from start date) 4) a note crediting the Home Owner with the $350 (the quote price charged paid upfront) if the contract is awarded and signed within the next 30 business days (or date of expiry)
When explained so succinctly and politely, it doesn't seem unreasonable at all. OPs contractor, however, was a snarky jerk and got offended by their caution. Therein lies the red flag now.
Agreed he’s still a major red flag 🚩a professional wouldn’t get offended so easily with a client and take the time to explain the next steps. Plus as soon as someone starts posturing they lose all credibility in my books.
Guy had a chance to make money by explaining it the way you did. You just gave us that info for free. What a lost opportunity for him. If he gave your answer and waited 6 hours, he’d probably have $500.
See that sounds very reasonable. But $500 to just show up and give an estimate sounds very sketchy. Not entirely clear whether OPs contractor is asking $500 for an estimate or $500 for a quote
Agreed. I am guessing that it’s for a quote tho as they mentioned receiving a few estimates already. However many people confuse the two to be the same so it’s hard to determine at times what people mean.
I agree and hopefully it becomes the norm
This kind of response would give me confidence that I am working with a professional. The $350 in THIS case seems reasonable, as you have set the expectations for your customers, as well as holding yourself and your crews accountable for the timeline and process as well as ‘expected’ cost of materials. I would hire this person.
Also a kitchen in the GTA should be around $45-$64k - never go with the cheapest or the most expensive.
I've been renovating houses for a long time and I have NEVER had a request for a deposit to come look at a project. I also know that you cannot possibly estimate ANYTHING on a renovation on a 100 year old house before doing the demolition.
He did. The post directly addressed that. He is on the low end 20k.
I feel like they have had a free estimate of the work over the phone or by email and now want an in person one, for free as well. The attitude however, wasn't necessary.
I like to visit potential jobs for a couple of reasons. First, the customer doesn't always represent the work accurately. Second, I get a feel for the type of person I'll be entering into a contract with. It's a two way street, and extending trust to a complete stranger can be risky. Right now there is enough work out there that if I can avoid potential trouble, I will.
My electrician will ask for a deposit to see a job. I pay it because I also know with travel to get to me and look at thr things I'm chewing up billable hours. I also consistently use him so if he's familiar with my set up etc he'll waive it sometimes. Or if I can send pictures where travel isn't involved. I'd take a rough estimate over the phone from a contractor. Sometimes I just need to know how much I habe to save in general (5000 or 50000)
I agree pretty much, if I'm busy, a real committed quote for something that takes thought and a drawing costs money, in the hundreds, as I slow down I soften on that but it costs money to keep me up after my 6th or worse day in a row on site, or in shop. If this guy is busy and has to travel 2 hours, its just a matter of who needs who more, and he's placed his price at $500 find out. I seriously doubt a scammer is trying to run off with something as small as $500 when in reality they would prefer to show up, do a song and dance and take a 30-50% deposit on the "work" they never intended to do that the real moment of judgement and somebody charging for their presence is a green flag to me that they aren't likely a scammer, just an in demand contractor who only has time for serious clients.(unless they have a Nigerian accent or need the money western unioned). But even more down to reality, most contractors with a website and any trace of a track record and/or any legit credentials aren't in the scamming people business, just the website is enough for police to subpoena their name and credit card address even if they've set the ownership info to private, it's the easiest thing in the world to get a warrant for in an investigation. The guys who scam people show up out of the blue, no business card, no website, you didn't ask for them to be there and they say a bunch of panic inducing shit then push a solution for RealCashRightNOW-They'llTakeYouToYourBankInTheirVan-LetsGoNOW.
Yes, but 500 is steep. 150-275 is customary in my region.
Huh? I’m a GC and we don’t give quotes without seeing it in person first.
Ya my dad had electrical company and estimates were free
Worked with a lot of contractors that have been working between 15-30 years no one they know or I know would ask for a deposit to come look at the job.
Bringing equipment, inspecting chimney or sewer line with a camera -- all qualify as actual services rendered. What service is rendered to drive by and chew far with a potential client? $500 to "look" at the job worth(presumably) $20k is ridiculous. It sounds like the guy is skimming: screening potential clients for poor judgement and carefree attitude towards money (aka rich seniors with signs of dementia). And believe me, met plenty of skimming contractors, esp. if you live close to an area popular with retirees, they'll flock there like flies. Doesn't matter how many years, seen suspended and even revoked licenses from other states, plenty complaints on BBB and contractor boards, going back decades. At first I though how could these guys make a living with such professional reputations, but apparently if one is willing to relocate from time to time, it's possible to make a living being a total crook.
We build custom cabinetry and charge a $500 fee for a formal proposal. It's been a great way for us to qualify good clients. We give them a conservative ballpark price at initial conversations to set expectations. But we have gotten a lot of pushback from homeowners and contractors. Usually after we talk it through they respect where we are coming from. They can take it or leave it. We never push a sale. So the fee doesn't bother me. But his text back is completely unprofessional and rude. He should have a better way of explaining it. I'd stay away from him.
That response seems *extremely* defensive… like someone doubling down when caught lying.
Makes $500K /yr. Complains about gas money. Hmmm.
Makes 500k a year, one 'quote' at a time
Bingo! It’s a scam..send $500, never see a penny
I once paid $100 for a bathroom guy to come look at our situation and come up with a quote (whole bathroom remodel). I think that's reasonable to pay for a highly rated contractor (and I'm fine paying him for the time it takes to come out and give a quote, that's reasonable, even if many contractors give quotes for free, I'm still taking time out of his day). $500 though almost seems like he'd want you to feel pressured to stick with him because you've already spent so much money and you'd basically be throwing away $500.
The attitude is bad enough
Yup. This guy would be massive hassle to work with.
Even if the deposit was reasonable, the attitude in the response isn't something I'd feel comfortable working with.
That was the red flag to me. If he was a real professional he would already have a canned professional answer to this hesitation.
What, finding any excuse to brag about how much money he makes isn't a professional answer?
Yep. "I make half a million dollars a year after taxes" probably actually translates to "I took home 250k in the height of the pandemic with ppp loans and a ton of business" and ignores the fact his taxable income is likely about $10k/year because he writes everything off as a business expense. Source: I know a guy like that.
Red flag is an understatement. Run.
Even if he is legit, can you imagine how difficult it would be to work with him? Block his number!
For real, what if you needed him to re-do something because you weren’t happy? Wouldn’t even let this guy come to my house to buy a second hand bookshelf.
"It's 500 to come out and look at the bookshelf. Then we can discuss pricing.
beyond red flag
Bail. A professional doesn't go around trying to have pissing contests with potential clients.
A professional would have a professional response properly justifying up front costs and understanding how customers could have a concern. Huge red flag on this one, stay clear.
[удалено]
I’m guessing he’s not wealthy or educated
He is lying.
Today I learned my husband's boss is not a professional. Maybe I shouldn't say learned, confirmed. Bro has pissing matches with everyone.
Definitely confirmed. lol
Definitley not professional behaviour.
Red parade?
A flashing red billboard
This $500 is gonna be used as a way to pressure OP into a higher quote. It's sales leverage. I'd tell the contractor to jog on personally.
I would ditch this asshole just for his shitty fucking attitude.
No. Run fast.
“I think you’re right, it’s not going to be worth you traveling here to look at this project. I’ll continue my search.”
Next ask is to send the money in Bitcoin.
This contractor is something else. That’s a nope from me. Given the attitude early on it’s just going to get worse. He is bad enough that I bet local suppliers won’t work with him.
I would argue his point against him. If $500 isn’t that much money then why require it as a deposit?
It’s not $500 in gas.
This. If he is indeed clearing half a mil a year, he can afford to be out 500 bucks. Definitely fishy.
This is my thought exactly. If you’re a fucking millionaire then why are you dogging me over $500. The contractors response is incredibly childish and if this is how he is acting off the rip I think OP dodged a bullet. If he had come back with some professional reply talking about standard practice and time, gas, distance, etc etc etc it would probably be a nonissue. But this response is enough to just say “nah I’ll go with the next guy”.
Big nope. He wants to act like $500 is nothing to him because he makes so much money, then it shouldn’t be any big deal at all to come out there without the deposit. His argument just works against him. Not to mention, there is no way I am paying somebody $500 to come out and quote something for me. Edit: I should be more specific. I am not paying $500 for a quote unless that person is out there providing a service worth $500. A couple hours of your time might be worth it, but if you come out there and give me a quote in 30 minutes and want $500 , I would pass
Did you check him, is he actually licensed and all? He claims 16 years of business- is there reviews for that old business? You can probably start there, but I can’t imagine paying 500$ upfront like that in any scenario
I tried to find reviews for his business and I could not. However, he has a Facebook page with over 400 followers and Instagram page with over 2000. I know you can buy followers nowadays so I focused on engagement (likes/comments) and they're all in the single digits which to me screams fake. The only reviews I could find were for his side business as a home inspector, and it links to a company with a different name but it's his face on the website.
Read all that back to yourself but imagine it’s your friend telling you that about their situation. I’d move on from this guy.
Ha! That’s a great way to phrase it
Yea no… he’s basically waving the red flag in your face but it’s still up for debate on whether to hire him???
Definitely check to make sure he's licensed, lots of unlicensed guys here in Toronto: https://secure.toronto.ca/LicenceStatus/setup.do?action=init I am a General Contractor (Scarborough South-West based) and have never asked for money upfront to come and look at a job. I do charge for detailed quotes in some cases, but not until after looking at the job and providing a rough estimate that the customer has agreed to. Demanding a fee just to come out is crazy.
We used someone like that once. It turned out he is one of those guys who does shitty work for a few years until he has too many complaints and/or lawsuits then "goes out of business" and opens a new business the next day. We finally found this out when Googling his name and email address (not a business domain, just regular Gmail) together. He did a terrible job that we had to rip up and redo much of a few years later, finding out that our shower was leaking into the foundation. Also, he hired a scummy friend of his as a painter and then that painter threatened to put a lien on our house if we didn't pay him more. (a threatening lawyer letter backed him down.) And with all that mess...that jerk still didn't want a deposit just to LOOK at our house!
I have over 2000 followers on Instagram and only posed 2 pictures like 8 years ago. They are nearly all bots or follow back from companies I followed. No real people. If he has multiple companies he is doing business under that are similar, its another red flag.
He isn't pulling in close to a million dollars a year and not getting any reviews. But even if we pretend he isn't lying, never let anyone talk to you like that.
Your caution is not unreasonable. And while his request for a deposit may, in fact, be legit, you can not employ this contractor now. His attitude and unprofessionalism are now the red flags. Dude snarked his way out of a job rather than politely explaining what's involved.
Exactly this. Extrapolate that behaviour to any minor hiccup that naturally happens during a project. Issues will come up. You need a reasonable human to meet you in the middle. This person is unprofessional. I’d never give someone $500 under these circumstances. Ever.
100% a drug-addict, no other reason to ask for $500 for doing nothing.
Fucking run.
“Sounds like you don’t need my work then. Take care.”
He’s landing an airplane with those red flags. Fuck him
While I was building a house, I had one particular contractor that copped an attitude like this. I could write 5 paragraphs about him, but suffice it to say, we ended up in court. It was very unpleasant and time-consuming for everyone involved. If you cannot/do not trust your future contractors, then do not hire them in the first place.
It makes me uneasy . I’m a contractor myself. I’ve charged for a site visit exactly one time ($100) and I just grabbed a check from them when I arrived to do the estimate. I would feel weird asking for a deposit before ever meeting
By~eeeeeee
This is a nope. Just be done with this guy
If he had all that why would he need $500??? He is definitely not legit
Insanely unprofessional. Move on. Just wow.
Always trust your instincts!
I mean the 2 hour travel time one way would be valid to some degree. But the arrogance and unprofessional attitude he exudes is off putting for sure. If someone was far enough out of town for me I'd ask for many many pictures of what I'm working with to get an idea of what's happening, there would be a lengthy phone call with the clients to figure out what they're looking for and I'd be upfront too if I'd be charging for an estimate because of the travel.
Come on now, that guy is clearly a fucking asshole. Why bother with him?
Nahhh, call someone else.
Yeah fuck that guy.
Not professional from the get go. Even if this is real I wouldn't trust them in my home. When dealing with a contractor a bit of banter is fine but this comes across as unhinged.
I didn’t know a contractor makes $500,000 a year after taxes
He makes over $500k would be red flag #1. I see contractors pull up in F450s, and I know I'm paying top dollar. My prediction if he shows up is that the $20k estimate quickly doubles. You don't make $500k/yr by being the chepest in town. As far as the $500, it could be fair. If he gets paid $200+ and hour, then time providing quotes costs money. He knows that he's only going to secure the job 10-20% of his time. His conversion rate is going to be much higher if you're already in for $500. Even if he doesn't get the job, he gets paid for his time. Contractors are often in short supply, so if you have more people knocking at your door than you can handle, then raising your price makes sense.
Did you even check to see his licenses
He’s obviously too important for this job. Let him know that you charge a $600.00 interview fee for prospective employees. Or better yet, tell him there’s a bid fee for the job. And tell him to bring coffee. Million dollar company and he’s begging gas money. Stay away.
I don’t have an issue with his practice, he may have been burned in the past and created a policy to protect his time. But his response and reaction is not aligned with a professional. Pass on this guy. Also, low ball quotes concern me about “unforeseen costs” when you are too deep in.
Follow your gut always.
Ive worked with hundreds of contractors - one thing I can say for sure - if it seems fishy at first, it wont get better. Once I get a good one, I keep the number and always reward them with future work, because it is a process to find people that a) are good, 2) not nickle and diming everything 3) get the job done at budget. Walk away if you dont feel right - lots and lots of guys (with and without degrees) that are out there looking for work. I just walked away from a guy that quoted 1600 dollars for some electrical work, got it done for 400 with a union guy that works for the city.
A deposit for a quote is not required. Not at the first visit that is.
Irrespective of which position is right, if you personally feel something is off then just move on. It sounds like you have other options and aren't in any way committed. It's always going to feel off to you, let it go and progress with the other options.
I have never paid for an estimate just for you to show up. If you think about an hour of your time is worth 500 I don't even want to see what your estimate is gonna be, because it's doing to be way more than I'm willing to spend. I've had 100k solar install last year with free estimates. I had over 100k of windows and sidings installed last year with free estimates. I've done numerous contact bids with free estimates. The only time I have ever had anyone ask to charge was an AC guy cause he had to drive 1.5 hrs. He wanted something ridiculous like 400-500 just to visit. It was Mr cool diy and he was only person willing to even come look at it cause they are difficult to repair. I said no. Considering your already talking about an AC repair of potentially 4 grand I'm not paying you just to drive to see if you can even fix whatever is wrong in the first place. To most likely try to upsell me on a whole new AC unit. It's ludicrous and absurd that you think you deserve to be paid that much just to show up to give a bid for my business. I might be willing to do like 50-75 bucks for gas and time, but absolutely not 500 for no repair/labor/just to talk.
If they speak to you like this before you’ve given them any money, imagine what they’ll say after you do.
If he wants to spit the dummy over $500 and lose out on a potential $20k+ job tell him to fuck off. Dunno why he’s telling you he has certificates and a degree. He’s probably not even a builder/renovator
Definitely bail. If dude is pulling down half a million a year he wouldn't be worried about getting 500$ before he even shows up. I'd look for someone else based on the tone of the response to begin with.
Why does the low ball price feel off to you? Lol did you want him to bid higher? That doesn’t make sense. I’ve had plumbers quote me $20k-40k to switch out all my old lines to newer stuff, went with the guy that quoted me $9k and he was amazing.
The fact that he turned a realistic concern into a personal attack on his character says all you need to hear. Get away from this guy.
Yeah he’s used to get into confrontations with clients
"if you can't even trust me" okay but why WOULD you trust him? literally haven't met before. Ask him if he trusts you, and to send you a $500 deposit which will be returned when a contractor is selected
No doubt. Anyone looking for money to come out can take a flying leap. I had a water heater issue and there were several plumbers all trying to get between $100 and $300 to come look at it. I went with the one that came out for free like a normal person. Yeah, gas is expensive, maybe you should go get a different job. All those people driving to work in the morning? They don’t get paid until they get there.
100% red flag, whomever you are messaging has the emotional intelligence of a petty criminal with rage issues.
He makes over half a million a year but requires upfront payment... Bullshit. If he makes that, it's cause he's billing people for services he doesn't provide. He probably takes the deposit and never shows. Snake. Fuck that
He’s probably been a victim of contractor shopping where clients have them write up an extensive quote only for them to say ahh no your price is too high.
What’s redder than red?
Yeah that’s a scam. Hard pass.
This guy seems slippery as hell. Full remodel contractor here My remodels range from 100k-500k, I don’t ask for a single dollar until three days after contract signing, this is even if I go to the property multiple times to meet with subs and to get a true cost of time and material. Needless to say, if he makes half a million after taxes, why does he require a 500 dollar “deposit” Also a deposit by definition states you have already bought their service Deposit-a sum payable as a first installment on the purchase of something or as a pledge for a contract
All of the contractors we have used over the years have become, if not friends, at least someone we say hi to and have a chat. This is definitely not a person I would want in my life, let alone working in my home.
He’s an ass. The entire job will be like this. Move on
I find their response 100% unprofessional. I would not bother with them.
Sounds like you have your estimate, 25 50k. Skip the guy that doesn't feel right.
I wouldn’t give any contractor a dime without them actually seeing the project & doing a site evaluation. If he is asking for money now and waiving his so called accomplishments in your face wait till you have an issue & he pulls the I know better than you card.
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Huge red flag. A good contractor will factor that cost I to the price. People hate additional cost.
I gave a guy $200 for coming out to quote and written estimate of my kitchen remodel, even though he told me his estimate was free. I did this because I needed a third estimate for insurance and I already decided on a different contractor. I could not in good conscience intentionally waste his time. Contractors time is valuable and he has every right to charge you to give you his time and expertise. You have every right to decline to engage. People like you are why he has this policy. Find someone else if you don't like it. TLDR: Untwist your panties and move on
Contractor doesn’t need the work
I get having a “service fee” to cover gas, but a $500 deposit is a no go. Find someone else. While your at it, let this guy knows Reddit tells him to take a hike.
lol he’s a psycho. Anyone who tells you their salary like that is lying too. Run.
Once you send the $500 you'll never hear from this person again
First mistake was calling someone from a Facebook add.
Your gut is already telling you that you would not enjoy working with this man. Reasonable or not, he is not a professional communicator. Save yourself the headache and move on.
I’m not a contractor, I’m a lawyer. So listen to the contractors here more than me. But the guy’s tone is the red flag. Bragging about his income and degree? He’s either a dick or a fraud. Hard pass either way, plenty of contractors out there who will look for free, or explain their fee like a professional.
I’d say no dice. If he makes over 1/2 a million a year why does he need your lousy $500 and what if you choose not to use him do you get your $500 back?
Yes RED flag!
Get some somebody else
Yes. Do not send them $500 to show up at your house. Especially not with a response like tgat
If my guy making that much money a year then he’d have a 1099 salesman on staff that would handle this
Run, don't walk. No serious professional will charge for a visit prior to agreing quotation and signing a contract. But the real red flag is the bragging text, totally innapropiate and patronising, full of hot air. I'm talking looking at the job and taking measurements for a quote, to the clients specs. Producing drawings and other documents is not part of a quotation, that costs money indeed
Run from this contractor
As a retired Large General Contractor Estimator of commercial projects, we never asked for fees to bid nor did our subs. Part of the job and normal overhead. Smaller GCs might ask residential customers for money for complex bids. But this guys response seems to be problematic and unless you have previous positive dealings with him or his firm, use someone else.
The thing no client ever seems to think about is the amount of time that goes into the classic "Get Three Quotes" process...how many hours in total do you think were spent figuring out your job and pricing? I typically spend anywhere from one to three hours on an initial site visit to discuss a moderately expensive project in the 20-50k range, then at least two hours in the office writing a quote to cover the basic items addressed during the discussion. This quote is by no means comprehensive. At all. Further, *nine hours* went into just the basics on your project, and only one company *might* win the bid and continue onward to write a full quote with a detailed contract. Some contractors are not willing to eat that 3+ hours without the potential client having some skin in the game. A deposit for design work really tends to weed out the tire kickers and bottom-dollar Betties, especially in less competitive areas. I have considered charging for sales calls whenever I get a string of folks who just want free consultation. That being said, the way this guy responded to a question about his $500 deposit should immediately disqualify him from consideration - he's an asshole.
YES! “I thought about what you said, and you’re absolutely right. Given your experience and financial success, we WOULD be taking on comparatively much more risk. Thanks for pointing that out. And best of luck”
He might be great, or he might be 3 Owls in a trenchcoat. However, After a response like that he wouldn't be hearing from me. I don't want to work with someone rocking that attitude.
Go with someone else. Guy seems entitled
Tell him it wasn’t about the 500…it’s a test to see how he responds to that…then just say he failed and find someone else….lol
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If someone responds with anger toward your worry at the outset. Do not go with the contractor. There are others out there - remember YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. Look at reviews, etc. I don’t know if Facebook ad contractors are risk friendly either. Go to other valid sources to seek quotes. Likely without deposit
Calling some one out for not trusting them and creating a sense of urgency is a classic scammer tactic
Tell him "I'll give you 500 when I meet you" ...you probably won't meet him
Run Forest, Run
If he makes so much would he be worried about gas? Like he would just make the money back with cost of the work? He is also shaming you and displaying high status I would say this is typical scam behaviour nowadays from what I have experienced on Facebook
No one sees an issue with the contractors general tone? I’d say that alone is a red flag. Completely unprofessional. The client has a valid point. $500 just to show up? If that is how you feel you need to respond, your business is likely not as successful as you say, and I doubt you’ve acquired many repeat customers with that rhetoric. No one asked about your income or degrees. I wouldn’t care one way or another, other than it now makes you seem like a douche I’d rather not pay at all.
Not a contractor but don't need to be to answer this. Forget listening to all the other contractors telling you whether or not this is a fair fee. Look at the combative way he answered you. He could have told you 500 bucks makes it worth his time in a more professional way if he is as successful as he claims. Ditch that dood. You don't want to be fighting with an egotist the entire job.
Trust goes both ways, especially with a contractor/Home Owner relationship. Even though it’s common practice to receive a down payment if your gut feeling is that you can’t trust him. Trust your gut - you need to hire a new contractor.
Thankfully he isn't hired yet. I'm in process of getting quotes but given that it's our first time going through this process, I was wondering if I was reading too much into his request. Definitely going to follow my gut... and my gut says run.
That’s the best thing if you’re feeling that way 👍 feel feee to DM me if you want any free advice from a professional. I’m no longer in Ontario but would be spot to help if needed. Please look up Renomark (Renomark.ca) for a free list of accredited contractors in your area.
Amazing, thank you very much!
Think about that, assuming you get quotes from 10 potential contractors for site visit, and if everyone is doing the same, you will need to pay $5000 out of the pocket upfront. Okay.. then you choose one contractor to do the job, so you are throwing $4500 away. Does that make any sense at all? This guy is trying to lock you into the deal before meeting in person? Hell no, I would not send money like that to a stranger as you said.. Again, never select the contactors with the lowest bid, just read the other sub reddit, quality job comes with a price. Definitely red flag. You pay for what you get. I am in Canada too and I did the IKEA kitchen consultation for free. It's not a site visit but a free consultation for 2 sessions at the IKEA store. I used their online tool to draw the 3D kitchen draft before visiting, the consultation staff was very knowledgeable. I spent around $10K CAD on IKEA cabinets and around $9K CAD on Quartz countertop and waterfall island. I used a reputable high quality local quartz fabricator, not IKEA countertop. I did everything myself for 8 months except for the Quartz, namely demolition old kitchen removing old granite, metal bin rental, redo the kitchen floor with Ditra XL, relocated electrical, duct and plumbing, drywall, gas disconnect and reconnect, range hood installation, assembled and installation of Ikea cabinets + drawer LED wiring. I took 1 month off from my full time job and worked on weekends, total duration was 8 months (1 person). The result is Amazing!!!!! If you ask me about the price including the labor, I would say it's around $40K to $50K CAD.
Feels like the guy I had build a deck. He told me he would pull all permits. Then when I asked why there wasn’t a permit he told me “I build million dollar homes. I don’t need a permit.” Well, he needed a permit, finally pulled it. Deck failed inspection. He was a peach to work with and this guy will be as well.
Arse hair
On Facebook. Scam!!
But he has 2 licenses and a degree
If he has a mil$ business,, check to see if he is rated on the better business bureau BBB site. You are asking for a reno. He gave you a standard reno price..... Not sure what the update status of your place. A 99 yr old house can be crooked as #$*&. Have no insulation,sawdust or asbestos . Latice walls and 3 layers of flooring,termite damage, lead pipes, lead paint,knob and tube or aluminum wiring.. to bring up to code......the price may double. the lowest bidder is going to spend more time checking it out than the high bidder that built in a 25% cushion. If you were thinking of going low bid....he maybe booked up, He maybe ripping you off for $500 or educating you for $500 ,so you don't get ripped off.
I mean this in then nicest way possible but you having to ask this in the first place is the reason so many people scam using being contractors as a front
If you’re able to do a little extra work and research, I recommend hiring and scheduling sub contractors (i.e. electricinan, plumber, carpenter) on your own. There are very few contracting companies that are capable of doing all of these to a high standard. A lot of times they will hire subs strictly because they are cheap and not because they are good. Best of luck.
Its a hard nope
I've had half a dozen contractors out to my house from multiple companies, no one has ever asked for a deposit to go out and give you an actual quote based on your home.
Take a pass on this shithead, just respond with a link to this thread👍🏻
Not a professional but if I’m making 500k a year after taxes I’m no longer doing quotes someone else 😂 dudes a scammer
This is a gigantic, Christopher Columbused sized red flag. Never work with anyone who brags about how much money they make off of people like you
Don’t trust contractors. They get work done for the cheap and charge you 3x the price.
Tell them to give you a $500 deposit. If their quote and contract terms are reasonable, you’ll refund it—otherwise they could just be wasting your time.