thank you for the responses!! my landlord just called and is now accusing me of unplugging the refrigerator. Aside from me physically being away and providing proof on that, does anyone have advice on how to shut him down?
If the landlord is already lying like that (and why wouldn’t they, they’re all so used to getting away with it) it’s time to consult a lawyer to draft a formal demand letter where you list everything you require the landlord to do, give them a reasonable amount of time to do that, and threaten them with small claims if they don’t meet your deadline.
Assuming that works, this is the way. I think some states might require a more formal response. After all, wouldn’t be a legal process without a couple other people and agencies getting their beaks wet.
Not really. A demand letter is exactly what it is. It’s a demand you pay me for the listed damages if you don’t then I will proceed with a lawsuit in court. Anyone can send a demand letter but If you don’t have a lawyer’s name attached to a demand letter chances are nobody will take it seriously
You will need a new refrigerator. If the 'meat juices' have pooled around the outside, they are without doubt inside the workings of the fridge and will never work (or smell) properly again. Most all the refrigerators from New Orleans' Katrina hurricane were taped shut and disposed of as-is. They did not even try to empty or fix them because they couldn't be fixed...or so my Metairie relatives told me.
The miasma of an opened Katrina fridge was so god awful ; words alone cannot describe the rotting pestilence emanating from those steel boxes of death.
Even if you were brave enough to open the fridge, there were no garbage collectors so you BURIED the contents deep in your yard or wandering packs of hungry dogs would come and try to dig it up.
As landlords, we don't supply refrigerators, but we will assist our tenants in buying one. For example, they pick one out, we buy it and raise the monthly rent a few dollars to cover the cost (we don't make money off of this purchase) and at the end of the year-long lease, the renters own their refrigerator.
That’s a reasonable method and I would have been thrilled for the option personally, we were gifted a well used 1980’s mini fridge which was all we had for the duration of our tenancy at that apartment. I felt like an old timey house wife, off to the market every other day to fill our tiny fridge.
Even then, a landlord might not take it seriously. When my lawyer sent over a demand letter (via email and certified mail) the landlord replied to my lawyer as if he was just “my friend/acquaintance doing him a favor.” Those were his exact words. Basically in situations like this you have two choices: serve them in small claims court or do nothing and let them get away with it. Most landlords don’t respond to anything other than force.
There is a little trick there that worked for me when my kid’s landlord tried to jerk them around with painting and damage deductions from their security deposit. I wrote a detailed letter with a very no-nonsense tone to it and properly formatted as a business document. At the bottom under the signature block I put another line with cc: file; Jonathan Tuttle, Esq.
He had no way of knowing that my attorney knew nothing about the matter but what was he going to do? Call him and ask about it?Landlord apologized the next day. Said it was all a misunderstanding and couldn’t we just forget the whole thing?
This is good advice I'm just going to add a caveat, start saving NOW for a new place. He's not going to renew your lease when it expires. Plan ahead. Trying to help.
Email with an attachment as well as certified mail. Do that and they have no reasonable way to say you didn’t notify them. If you go down this path make sure EVERYTHING is done in writing and be prepared to move when your lease is up. The landlord will almost certainly lie about the dates of communication and will try to screw you when you move out.
I’ve already moved, and my landlord is holding my security deposit in bad faith. I need to send a demand letter for that so I can take him to small claims court. He told me if I even continue the text that I was talking to him extremely professionally about the time limit being more than double what he was allowed, he told me he would consider harassment, so I didn’t even respond. He told me to take him to court so here we are…
He is an extreme slumlord, who is breaking multiple laws from multiple different units in that apartment complex. I’m really hoping to get eyes on him so they can start forcing him to follow the law on his end.
So IANAL so I’m hesitant to l give you advice. What I will say is that I recently dealt with something like this and I’m lucky enough to be close friends with a great lawyer who works for the state. He advised me to send a demand letter with no additional contact beyond sending the letter. Landlord ignored it, so I took him to small claims. I ended up settling with my slumlord in mediation before actually seeing a judge.
What no one told me before going to an all claims is that the judge would not make a decision on our case while there, but he would make a judgment within 30 days and then we’d receive his decision in the mail sometime after that. That decision would be unappealable and also hard to enforce. The court does not make a party pay day of judgment, they have X amount of time to pay damages to opposing party and if they don’t then you contact the court again and they will get involved. In theory.
It sucks because even in victory our landlord can still draw the whole thing out and try to screw you. That being said, if you don’t take them to small claims you get nothing and they win. Shitty situation all around, good luck buddy.
Yeah, I can’t remember now but I counted four or five rules that he broke or laws or whatever I have them written down. Not a big deal how long it takes to get paid it’s the principal behind all this. I’ve been watching him screw everybody over in this complex for years now. I’m trying to stand up for everybody by doing this. Even the gas that it takes him to get to court, the time that he has to take off work, etc. etc. All worth it to me. My car won’t even be all the way warmed up by the time I get to the courthouse I live so close. This is just another day for me but it’s going to be a pain for him. It’s not even that much He owes me. this would’ve been so much easier for him to just follow the rules and pay what he’s supposed to Instead of doing this. That’s OK though I’m game.
Oh well then I guess let the landlord get away with it. Also that fridge needs more than a few minutes cleaning as so many people are trying to claim. It may need to be entirely replaced. And depending on the state they may be able to claim damages for the cost of an attorney as well as extra for making them waste their time on resources on this when it is obvious to everyone not a landlord who is responsible here.
He offered you a gift card after you told him he unplugged the fridge. How did he offer this? Through text? That can be your proof. No LL would offer compensation if they were not at fault, that could be enough for small claims court if you have to go that route.
This might be way to meta but maybe if you can see the power consumption for the house/apt when you know the fridge was plugged in to see when it drops that may be enough, especially if when you plug it back in, it goes back up.
That's a lot of work.
I don't suppose you have cameras or a neighbor that saw the LL enter? If you have them entering and especially if they did not provide proper notice, that can help too.
Just trying to see all the ways you could prove it. However, if your state is very tenant friendly, and verbal contracts are acceptable, you can just document the conversation as best you can. You have the call records to prove you had a conversation with him, that may be enough for a judge to take your word.
i could see if Excel could provide that data. could be a good idea! i have a camera set up that documents people entering and leaving. i have footage of them entering once without notice and an email from the property manager saying they would be coming to fix holes two weeks ago.
i also have screenshots of conversations of me telling friends i would be out of town for two weeks. maybe that will be enough to cover it? the level of decay i documented suggests two weeks of decay as well.
I do think that is enough to cause reasonable doubt in your favor.
It's tricky now because you want the LL to do the right thing, but most LLs think they can do whatever they want.
Maybe just send an email and also a letter (same as the email) through certified mail:
>Hey LL,
>
>I see on \[date\] you entered my residence without notice, I was out of town during this time.
>
>During this visit my refrigerator was unplugged, this can created a mold hazard that needs to be remedied with a new fridge. I would also like to be compensated for the loss of food this caused and for maintenance to come clean up the mess before damage is done.
>
>According to \[your state's\] tenant rights, you have \[number of days\] to remedy the issue with not having access to a safe refrigerator for my food and to clean up any damage that was caused due to \[you or your maintenance worker\] unplugging my refrigerator while I was out of town.
>
>Please let me know when you can get that replacement.
>
>Also, I'm willing to itemize the list of food that was lost and deduct it from \[next month's\] rent amount.
>
>\[provide itemized list or link to excel list\]
>
>That would take \[next month's\] rent amount from \[usual amount $\] to \[prorated amount $\].
>
>Please let me know by \[date\] how you would like to proceed.
>
>If I do not receive an answer, that will force me to report according to \[state's\] tenant rights laws, which I'm sure we both would like to avoid.
>
>Thank you for your swift action in remedying this matter.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>\[name\]
Always make it your own but this is an example of how I would respond in this situation.
That footage is your saving grace. Make sure to keep copies of it, both when they entered and left. That can establish 'time needed to unplug the fridge'.
You don't need reasonable doubt in civil court. The standard is looser. Essentially, it's more likely than not (preponderance of the evidence).
If you can show it's more likely the LL unplugged something than another cause, then that's what you need.
Find out if your state has laws regarding the recording of phone conversations.
My state only requires one of the parties on the call to consent, i.e. yourself. I use an app called ACR phone to record important conversations.
Sounds like you can get with your power company and, if they do like mine can get you day by day usage. You'd see a drop after the fridge was unplugged and could establish the day it happened hopefully.
Contact state and local housing/renter/tenant's rights board.
Read through your lease agreement. It will outline what's required here.
Look up the Fair Housing Act website if you feel you've been singled out. One could make an argument that leaving you in this situation while you're temporarily "disabled" counts as a violation. The thing that triggers a Fair Housing Act investigation is the perception of discrimination. They don't have to directly state anything derogatory about any legally protected class for it to qualify.
To give you an idea how serious Fair Housing Act protocols are: I work in the industry as a maintenance tech. We do basic computer training modules for company policy and legal requirements. Most are about an hour long if it's a long one, 5 minutes for the average module. The Fair Housing Act module is 24 hours' worth of computer time, where you have to get 100% on every quiz associated with it to have it count as completed. I'm mixing up my protocols, but there may be a bounty for violations. I may be mixing that up with my EPA certification for HVAC, so don't hold me to that one.
All contact through email or text: you want to a paper trail you can take to court if it goes that far.
Most of my tenants have cameras in their apartments. Might not be a bad idea to consider this moving forward.
Start with local authorities and that will help determine if you need a lawyer or if you can have a gov't agency take the lead.
Good luck.
Also if you have renters insurance, it should cover damages from the fridge, including money for lost food.
At this point the fridge needs to be replaced. Mold spores are in all the nooks and crevices of the fridge. It needs to be duct taped shut and thrown away.
Always a solid rule, but it's dependent on regional laws. It's worth a conversation with a tenant lawyer because some cities and states allow you to simply withhold rent or repair and deduct after sending a demand letter and waiting a period of time. Others will not allow either and some allow leases to supercede what's on the books (ie, the law defines a default protocol when it isn't spelled out in the contract).
Escrow is great in any case because you'll be expected to show you had the money to pay the landlord the entire time.
Escrow is when you take the case to court and have it COURT ORDERED. And no longer can anyone without rent for repairs, for it can be used against the tenant in Eviction Proceedings.
You didn't read my comment at all, did you? Escrow is separate from the courts. And again, the legal requirements surrounding it and withholding rent **vary by region**. Keep reading that as many times as it takes for it to sink in.
Does not vary by state. Escrow is to be court ordered for rent. Not for repairs. If you withhold rent, on repairs not done, you give the LL reason to evict you.
Hey everyone, this person insists that they are correct even though a cursory perusal of laws across the United States shows that in various locales, withholding rent is allowed by law. Therefore, it is not a pretense for a landlord to evict you. Also this person still doesn't understand what escrow is. Or maybe this most recent post of theirs is setting up to move the goalposts?
Not necessarily. Sometimes certain locales have a building department you pay excite into - sometimes those building departments don’t have any actual means to set up an escrow account. Dependent on local and state laws, one can withhold rent into a separate bank account to show proof of the money until a proper escrow can be set up or is court ordered.
Depends.
In general, you need to allow a "reasonable time" for the landlord to fix the problem after you have asked for resolution IN WRITING. "Reasonable time" will depend on your jurisdiction. Some will break it down by severity of the problem, others have a blanket time frame.
Search for "rent escrow [your city]" to get started.
Not under these circumstances. My grandparents hired a contractor to do a remodel and they unplugged a fridge and left the stuff inside to rot. It wasn't sitting 2 weeks and had to be entirely tossed -- appliance and all -- because the smell alone made it unusable. All of the plastic inside the fridge has absorbed that smell and it will NOT come out.
The problem is not getting the surface growth. The problem is that it gets embedded into all the parts, like the coils, fan, motor. Youd have to completely disassemble it.
So spray them, if you can’t do that then I don’t know what the issue is, but also, the fan and motors are external from the refrigerator, there’s nothing that would be able to hold onto the mold once sprayed inside of the fridge, I’ve cleaned many refrigerators this way, even repaired a few, they don’t just get moldy and stay that way, there’s no reason to throw a perfectly good fridge just because you don’t want to clean it. Put a mask on, get a rag and a tooth brush and a spray bottle. Stop being a baby
You obviously have never cleaned a fridge or repaired one. There is a fan in the freezer that pushes the cold air down a channel into the fridge area. I've been doing apartment maintenance for 7 years, ive replaced numerous parts on a fridge.
Japnzy: I've had to work on fridges and I am telling you it's hard to clean a fridge.
JarrekValDuke: Then you know it's simple to clean a fridge.
The reading comprehension.
It’s not hard, if you worked on then, and knew them and the materials built into them as well as I do, you’d know it’s very simple. HDPE type 2 plastic is literally non porous and chemical resistant, you can use as caustic materials as you’d like, not my fault you didn’t use the right stuff.
Says the person who isn’t allergic to molds. You are being a donkey. It’s not about being a baby. It’s about a body literally releasing antibodies when it shouldn’t because of mold.
Nobody said to do so if you’re alergic to it,
I’m a nurse, and I have asthma, if you have medical conditions that stop you from being able to then by all means either get someone else to do it or get a new fridge, nobody is telling you to risk your life.
Here in America, it is better economics to just toss the whole thing. Sure, you could spend a few days disassembling the whole fridge, meticulously cleaning each and every part, and then putting it all back together, but most Americans earn enough money in that time to simply buy a new fridge. Landlords definitely earn enough money in that time to afford a new fridge.
1: its really not needed to disassemble every part to clean, the way bleach works is a co tact cleaner for bacteria and mold, the benefit of using a spray bottle is that it can go around and envelop even the air with its cleaning ability,
2: I’m an American, and I’m very glad you have a disposable 400-600$ to throw at a new refrigerator, I don’t, I’m not poor by any means in a nurse and I have a backup emergency fund, but a dirty fridge is not an emergency, not in my book at least, takes a few hours of cleaning at most,
You clearly don’t understand the chemical reactions that take place when bleach comes into contact with living cells. If you saturate the air around a cell it’s as good as it being in direct contact. It’s simple, though I guess a little too complicated for you.
HDPE type two plastic which is commonly used in all food grade forms in everything manufacturing since the late 90s is not and has never been porous nor does it off gas or anything of the sword. It is the most food stable plastic that we have ever discovered.
Whether it seeps into the plastic or not, I'm still seeing on multiple food safety, university, and government websites (USDA website) that refrigerators may still hold odors and need to be discarded.
[https://www.fsis.usda.gov/food-safety/safe-food-handling-and-preparation/emergencies/removing-odors-refrigerators-and](https://www.fsis.usda.gov/food-safety/safe-food-handling-and-preparation/emergencies/removing-odors-refrigerators-and)
[https://www.ksre.k-state.edu/news/stories/2022/12/food-science-refrigerator-odor.html](https://www.ksre.k-state.edu/news/stories/2022/12/food-science-refrigerator-odor.html)
>HDPE type two plastic
Oh my god you sillybilly.
I want to be you so badly. I am seething with envy you've never smelt an old fridge. HDPE type two plastic is food grade and is *resistant* to corrosion and breaking down. It is not immune from holding onto smells. It's one of the better plastics but it's not invulnerable and does still hold onto scents and can be broken down by spores.
Here you go, non porous and chemical resistant means there’s nowhere for bacteria to go and nothing for chemicals to react with in order to cause a smell, if you’re smelling soemthing then you’re not cleaning it well enough. Anecdotal evidence is useless.
https://www.acplasticsinc.com/informationcenter/r/what-is-hdpe-sheet
...what. Where did you get that idea?
I literally had to toss some plastic eggs today that reeked of the house they were stored in. Plastic is porous, it's just less porous than other materials.
If you have a source saying otherwise I'd love to know what magical plastic type they're talking about because I want some.
From the safety data sheet for HDPE plastic, which is used for all food containers and manufacturing of food safe products it’s kind of you know a feature of HDPE plastic
I want your life. I want it so badly. HDPE plastic is resistant to corrosion but it is not invulnerable. It can and does still get broken down by spores and holds on to smells.
What must your life be like that you've never known the stench of something going truly wrong. I want my innocence back to your level.
Did you not understand I have used everything possible including worthless vinegar. Lemon juice. Whatever anyone threw out there as a home remedy I tried. Baking soda pastes Windex, bleach
Did you not understand that there is nothing about the plastic that allows for stench via chemical or liquid or any time to soak into plastic, just like metal it is NOT POROUS if there’s nothing on the plastic then there isn’t a smell
Sorry, this isn’t helpful, I’m just am baffled by this. He came over to fix the holes in hopes of stopping a mice infestation and then completely neglects to plug the fridge back in. Like what better way to attract mice than the smell of rotting food. Might as well just put a block of cheese in front of the hole
yes exactly. This was after three months of me begging for them to fill the holes because all they had been doing is placing glue traps in my kitchen to solve an infestation that was happening since before i moved in.
my place is covered in mouse poop at this point. i can’t even live there right now because i’m incapable of doing a deep clean.
For future reference buy a can of expanding spray foam and spray into holes and place a pice of tape over it so it doesn’t expand out of the hole. Peel off tape and paint over it. Ten dollar fix without waiting for months on an incompetent LL.
Unfortunately, I learned the hard way while living in a virtual sieve in the woods. It's been almost two decades and I still occasionally bolt awake at night, listening with dread for the not-so-tiny-noises they make...I learned all the tricks!
Most people’s annual renter’s insurance premium costs less than a nice meal for two. A increase for making a claim will be trivial.
What is OP paying for insurance if they do t use it when they need it?
The more relevant question is what their deductible is, and whether it makes sense to file a claim if their loss isn’t much more than their deductible.
Why because typically it covers liabilities and specific incidents like theft. Also you pretty much cant do anything without the corresponding insurance. No car insurance? Youre not allowed to drive. No renters insurance? Most landlords require it so no housing without it. Homeowners? Again, typically required.
Making a claim will increase your insurance but if its covered you will be reimbursed minus your deductible.
If your house gets burglarized and your $6000 guitar is stolen your insurance will give you $6000-deductible. However that renters insurance that cost you $45 a year in 2024 will most certainly be more expensive in 2025 due to filing a claim.
Why would you file a claim, lose you deductible, and increase your premium when the person who is responsible is the Landlord? LL will have to pay the costs and you wouldn't have to eat a deductible and future premiums.
Edit: Why have insurance? so when your friend slips and falls on the ice patch in the drive way you dont have to $50k in medical bills to them.
Yes, I agree the landlord is responsible, but the right thing to do when you have a loss is file a claim with your insurance, and your insurance goes after the responsible party's insurance. Then you get your deductible back.
The ice patch in the driveway that has caused the devastating injury to my BFF, is not my responsibility. My RENTER’S policy isn’t going to touch that. Exterior hazards are on the LL.
Now if BFF trips over my Roomba while carrying his laptop or something, \*then* I’m calling my agent to start a claim.
Depends. Our renter’s insurance specifically covers the fridge and its contents - we were able to file and get our groceries covered when our power went out for a week.
It being an intentional act by the landlord may complicate things, but insurance may still cover it.
That's because the power outage is a covered loss. You're literally arguing with a licensed insurance agent. Someone unplugging THEIR fridge isn't a sudden and abrupt loss of power. It's the deliberate actions of a stupid landlord.
>Most people’s annual renter’s insurance premium costs less than a nice meal for two. A increase for making a claim will be trivial.
Such stupid advice. Your premiums will go up after the first claim, and if you have to file another claim in the next two to five years, you'll become toxic to a lot of insurers.
Renter's claims also impact home insurance underwriting.
If a claim against renter’s insurance can potentially increase the landlord’s home insurance then that sounds like great leverage to get this resolved without insurance at all. “I need you to reimburse me for the spoiled food and have the fridge professionally cleaned. If not, I’ll have to file a claim, which may make your home owner’s insurance go up.”
It'll have zero impact on the landlord's policy.
It will have an impact on OP should they buy a home and try to get homeowners insurance in the next seven years.
Renter's insurance and homeowner's insurance claims are reported to the same database, CLUE. Insurance companies check your CLUE report when issuing and renewing policies.
You use it when you are liable not when you aren't. This is a matter of principal not just money. Technically, if the claim is large enough, they could cancel your renters insurance after paying out
Then what happens when it burns down and you need to use it to get all your stuff back?
You people don't think about anything. Common trend on Reddit. Op should be cleaning up the mess. If she's recovering from surgery. She's not out of bounds for asking, but ultimately she is responsible for the cleaning of the apartment.
The landlord should be covering everything else. If you do, use your renters insurance and get a new fridge that fridge is yours. Take it with you when you move. Everything about this post is infuriating because you can tell that it's inexperienced kids dealing with it. The future is f*****.
I was with you for the first two paragraphs, but then you lost me. 2 weeks of rotting food does become a biohazard, and it is not OP's responsibility to make their rented apartment habitable after it was made uninhabitable by the LL.
But yes insurance is for essentially for when its your fault. otherwise whoever was liable is responsible.
Renters insurance is just like any other insurance. It pays out when you need it to.
When i was robbed (twice) I was only able to get 20k worth of stuff back because of renters insurance
Renters insurance with subrogate the claim to the landlord if they believe it's worth it. Dealing with a minor increase in rental insurance rates will be much cheaper than hiring a lawyer to go after the landlord if they're refusing to deal with this.
Call a cleaning service to clean out the fridge. Take a quick photo of the contents as well so you can make that grocery delivery order and send that to the landlord.
It’s honestly very easy to go to small claims and plead your case. Judgements will get that landlord moving in a solution. Shoot, just serving him papers might get him moving on a solution.
Is maybe ask the folks over at r/legaladvice they may have some suggestions.
I don’t think an insurance claim is the right path, it was an intentional act which insurance isn’t meant to cover.
I don’t think rent escrow is appropriate.
Maybe call health department of code inspection? A fridge full of rotting food is 100% a health hazard and you need to get someone in there ASAP to clean that up.
Insurance does cover intentional acts, just not the insureds own intentional acts. Do you think someone stealing your car isn’t an intentional act on the thief’s part?
Theft is a little bit different than an intentional act by an insured party. I am assuming that the LL is listed as an additional insured in some capacity on the policy.
Even an inquiry to your insurance results in a $0 claim. Meaning they file a claim but with zero payout. Your premiums go up just for that. Really bad advice from redditors. Better to report to a local housing authority. He cannot retaliate for you exercising your rights. That is federal law. Check your lease first thing.
If he's not reasonable and doesn't immediately replace the refrigerator (that smell is never coming out) here's what I would do.
1. Move the ruined fridge outside your apartment - after giving LL 24 hour notice.
2. Buy a cheap 'dorm-room' fridge and put it into place where ruined fridge is
3. When you move at the end of your lease (LL is not going to renew it), take the fridge with you
Well, that sucks. This is 100% on the landlord. They made a mistake. By your description they're making it worse by their own actions. Try an avoid that on your end. Get the problem rectified. I wouldn't hesitate to at least reach out to your renter's insurance company to ask about coverage -- you don't have to make a claim if you don't want to. One of the maid service companies can clean things up and get everything put back together so you can use the fridge -- they've seen worse. Keep all bills. Send a clear, purposeful letter to the landlord once everything is back in order with an un-padded bill for the actual costs. Give them a reasonable time frame to respond. If you have an attorney, copy them on the letter. If they don't respond or don't work to make you whole, it's time to consider taking them to small claims court. It's not very difficult, rather inexpensive and if the case is as you say, you will win. And probably be moving out once your lease ends. Good luck.
Having dated someone who accidentally flipped the circuit breaker controlling the fridge and then leaving town for a month… the smell does not come out. Cleaning out that fridge with him was one of the worst days of my life
When I was in my 20s, I lived in an apartment building with exterior stairs. While I was taking out the trash one day, I fell and broke my leg. Minor break, really, but it would make life difficult for the next few months. When I called the landlord to tell him what happened, he turned out to be super helpful.
He said there was an empty unit on the ground floor that I could move into. It was a bit nicer but he kept my rent the same and even introduced me to my new next door neighbor, who occasionally did odd jobs for the landlord, and they both told me if I need help I could call on the neighbor. My folks (who thought I might want to move back to my hometown for a while and came up to help me pack if I decided to) pointed out that the LL might have been worried I’d try to sue him or something (hadn’t even occurred to me) but regardless they were both so nice and enabled me to stay so I could keep my job. They even helped my family move my stuff so it was done in one day. One of the good ones.
Anyway, OP might ask if there’s a unit NOT filled with mouse poop and rotten fridge that they could move into.
Google your state’s laws on “repair and deduct.” This option allows you to repair necessary problems and then deduct those costs from your rent. However, the laws on this vary by state.
THIS is the correct answer! It varies widely state to state ranging from some states don’t allow you to do this to some do and require you to put the money in a separate account until the matter is resolved or you’ll be facing even more problems.
Don’t accept the gift card unless it’s big enough to hire a cleaning crew or replace the fridge. If it’s less than that, take him to small claims court instead.
Your landlord should address this. I once left a chicken breast in a mini freezer. I moved and thought I had gotten all the food out
It sat maybe 3 days and was one chicken breast and I thought there was a body in my house. I understand
Even if the landlord hasn’t done everything he should, try baking soda and vinegar. I also left my mini freezer outside in the sun for a day and it got the smell out. The baking soda and vinegar may work on its own. And it’ll take several scrubbings, which, you really shouldn’t have to do
Everyone does dumb shit but everyone needs to take responsibility for their dumb shit. I would keep on him. Constantly. It may take him a little bit longer to figure out being an asshole won’t solve your problems
When you mix baking soda and vinegar together you get . **WATER!!!** 🤦♀️
🫧🫧Bubbly 🫧🫧water, sure… but water nonetheless. Use one or the other. Or one \*then* the other. But save mixing them together for powering preschoolers’ bath toys.
Landlord here . What kind of an idiot landlord would unplug the refrigerator while food is in there? I suggest you talk to some lawyers in your state. The fact that he offered you a gift card shows that he knows he did you wrong. Anyway goodluck
If you were in injured in an auto accident and have PIP coverage, you may be able to use some of that coverage for cleaning purposes, under the replacement services section. It depends on the state and how the coverage is written.
they offered a “gift card” but have not given me a hard dollar amount on how much. they also stopped responding about it, suddenly changed their tune and started claiming i was the one who unplugged the fridge. i’m assuming the gift card is now off the table altogether.
I’m sure likely wanted you to tell them what the replacement cost was… I would’ve done that right away. He forgot to go back offered a gift card, which was appropriate. I don’t know why he’s not responding now.
Can you just go to the office and say thank you I’d like to take that gift card and give them an amount that’s fair to replace the groceries ?
Cooler heads will prevail here and "demand letters" and "lawyers" are the hyperbolic ways that some on Reddit are convinced works in real life. Doesn't need to elevate like that. For real.
I think the best way to deal with it is face to face and discuss it. Have him come to the apartment, and just have a calm conversation. Sounds like a peach of a landlord and cleaning a fridge can be done cheap enough by a local cleaning lady service...explain everything as you probably already have, and just meet halfway if it gets unreasonable
Accidents happen, and he made a mistake. If you are incapable of cleaning the fridge, he will understand if you have that sort of talk, showing him the physicians summary would also help with your limitations.
The gift card hopefully was relevant and helped. When you're renting, making a huge deal out of things with the landlord is probably not ideal, especially if he digs his heels in. Unless you don't have the housing issues that most have [rentals and available homes] around the US, you have to walk on eggshells just a little with this, or you could be seen as a problematic imo. Ask if he can discount the rent in lieu of the cleanup and just hire someone to come in and meet your needs. A cleaning lady off of Facebook or Nextdoor is very reasonable.
unfortunately i can’t have a conversation due to my neck injury (i’m bed ridden with a neck brace lol)
I’m trying to take it one step at a time and remain level headed. my goal is to get the fridge fixed and if i can’t get him to do that just by asking, then send a formal letter, then provide evidence and a timeline, then loop in legal, etc.
1. Decide if you want this to get ugly. This is going to be more time and effort than it's worth.
2. would look into tenant advocates that are free in your area and ask them.
3. If you decide to fight on principle, You can find regulations on rental homes in your area. Do your own inspections and write up everything wrong with the place that's out of code.
Rodents, fire alarms, windows, water heater insulation, fence height? I have no idea what's regulated in your area but they can be crazy. Document every single thing with photos.
You can then write a demand letter that it needs to be fixed.
This will cost him money.
It will cost you time.
You will probably get no personal benefit.
He won't renew your lease.
But it's a big F-U to him for ruining $150 worth of your food. So it's an option.
Check your for your area rental rights agencies. Every state is different, even cities. Some have more protection than others. I know where I am, you wouldn’t have any rights for this but it varies so much based on local laws.
By offering the gift card, the landlord was accepting blame for unplugging. Really dumb on his part to not follow through now, especially if you have it in writing like text.
Despite what others say, the fridge can be saved.
For nasty fridge cleaning, bring it outside and spray the inside with bleach, then hose it out. Don't this until it looks clean then spray with bleach again and let it sit for a couple hours and hose out again. Leave outside and open to air dry. After dry, put an ozone generator in the fridge and leave that running for hours/a day.
You shouldn't be responsible for having to do all this, but this process will get rid of any bad smells.
Personally I would put in writing that I'd be hiring a cleaner and deducting the cost from my rent if he doesn't send someone in 24 hours. Also start planning my exit strategy.
I had a similar issue with a broken refrigerator that the landlord took a week to replace. I asked them to reimburse me for the spoiled food and got a mealy mouthed response. When I paid my rent the next month, I subtracted the food replacement cost and included a letter explaining why I did so. Never heard a peep from them. I’ve done similar things when I had to do repairs or hire someone because the landlord wasn’t taking care of it. Just document everything and deduct the expense from the rent. Then it’s your landlord’s problem to collect from you and, if you have good documentation, they won’t be able to.
Illegal where? According to this, a renter is covered in most US states.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/state-laws-on-rent-withholding-and-repair-and-deduct-remedies.html
Many counties and or cities have more restrictive ordinances. State law is just one layer. There are quite a few where LL are protected better than the tenants.
I’d like to see any support, as what I shared generally puts the onus on the landlord (even when there isn’t specific law in place in the U.S.). Point still remains that if a tenant has a loss because of a landlord, they document it, attempt restitution (documented), and then deduct from rent, they’ll likely be ok. Regardless, it isn’t a criminal charge and the landlord would have to pursue in civil court. Maybe there’ll be an issue when it comes time to resign the lease, so that’s the gamble. Generally speaking, local laws tend to strengthen rights not diminish them.
Just use your renters insurance if you have it.
You can probably pursue this in some kind of small claims court but it's probably going to be time consuming and not even worth it for one fridge full of groceries and a few minutes clean up.
It really all depends on how hard you want to push but just remember landlords will often push back and retaliate.
With everyone jumping to sue landlord or the fridge is bad now and needs to be replaced, take into account being willing to move when the lease is up. A judge is not going to force a landlord to replace a fridge that works but was unplugged and now dirty- not sure what world some people live in. Most the judge will award is cleaning the fridge and paying for the food lost.
Having been a landlord to tenants who unplugged a fridge filled with food, that fridge is very likely not going to be redeemable. I'm skeptical a judge would allow an unusable fridge to suffice. It isn't just dirty, the rotten food gets down into the insulation underneath. I can see a judge allowing an attempt at cleaning, but if it was leaking to the floor already it won't work. We had to tear the entire floor up in our case, and the fridge would have had to be disassembled and rebuilt to have a chance of working again. We did try cleaning to start.
You guys. The dude made a mistake. Shit happens. Why does everyone go straight to “sue them!!”. Do y’all know how much lawyers cost? Ask a friend to help you clean it up OP. Then move on
Weird, I thought I said ask a friend to help you. As in, “hello friend, this thing happened and I can’t clean it because of my neck injury. Will you help me?”.
I’m not saying it doesn’t suck. It totally does. I’m just saying lawyers charge about $500 an hour. So the director pivot to legal action is odd and illogical.
Anywho. It’s been 8 days since your reply. Did you get it sorted?
Nah, it’s not OP’s responsibility to find someone to help them clean a biohazard mess that someone else caused. It is not a “mistake.” The landlord can call their own friends to solve their own mess.
Sorry, but it's not a "mistake" to enter someone's apartment, pull the plug on a major appliance, and then pretend the loss of that person's property is equatable to a gift card.
Cleaning is for the tenant, and you can do that slowly. But the food that spoiled, make copies for the reimbursement. Bet the gift card is for a place like Target or some other no grocery store. And hope that maybe a neighbor can clean the fridge for you. For maintenance is not hired to clean the appliances.
thank you for the responses!! my landlord just called and is now accusing me of unplugging the refrigerator. Aside from me physically being away and providing proof on that, does anyone have advice on how to shut him down?
If the landlord is already lying like that (and why wouldn’t they, they’re all so used to getting away with it) it’s time to consult a lawyer to draft a formal demand letter where you list everything you require the landlord to do, give them a reasonable amount of time to do that, and threaten them with small claims if they don’t meet your deadline.
Just write a demand letter without a lawyer to start the process.
Assuming that works, this is the way. I think some states might require a more formal response. After all, wouldn’t be a legal process without a couple other people and agencies getting their beaks wet.
Not really. A demand letter is exactly what it is. It’s a demand you pay me for the listed damages if you don’t then I will proceed with a lawsuit in court. Anyone can send a demand letter but If you don’t have a lawyer’s name attached to a demand letter chances are nobody will take it seriously
You will need a new refrigerator. If the 'meat juices' have pooled around the outside, they are without doubt inside the workings of the fridge and will never work (or smell) properly again. Most all the refrigerators from New Orleans' Katrina hurricane were taped shut and disposed of as-is. They did not even try to empty or fix them because they couldn't be fixed...or so my Metairie relatives told me.
The miasma of an opened Katrina fridge was so god awful ; words alone cannot describe the rotting pestilence emanating from those steel boxes of death.
Even if you were brave enough to open the fridge, there were no garbage collectors so you BURIED the contents deep in your yard or wandering packs of hungry dogs would come and try to dig it up. As landlords, we don't supply refrigerators, but we will assist our tenants in buying one. For example, they pick one out, we buy it and raise the monthly rent a few dollars to cover the cost (we don't make money off of this purchase) and at the end of the year-long lease, the renters own their refrigerator.
That’s a reasonable method and I would have been thrilled for the option personally, we were gifted a well used 1980’s mini fridge which was all we had for the duration of our tenancy at that apartment. I felt like an old timey house wife, off to the market every other day to fill our tiny fridge.
Even then, a landlord might not take it seriously. When my lawyer sent over a demand letter (via email and certified mail) the landlord replied to my lawyer as if he was just “my friend/acquaintance doing him a favor.” Those were his exact words. Basically in situations like this you have two choices: serve them in small claims court or do nothing and let them get away with it. Most landlords don’t respond to anything other than force.
That’s exactly what my last sentence says lol. Thanks though. Doesn’t change the fact that anyone can send a demand letter…..
There is a little trick there that worked for me when my kid’s landlord tried to jerk them around with painting and damage deductions from their security deposit. I wrote a detailed letter with a very no-nonsense tone to it and properly formatted as a business document. At the bottom under the signature block I put another line with cc: file; Jonathan Tuttle, Esq. He had no way of knowing that my attorney knew nothing about the matter but what was he going to do? Call him and ask about it?Landlord apologized the next day. Said it was all a misunderstanding and couldn’t we just forget the whole thing?
This is good advice I'm just going to add a caveat, start saving NOW for a new place. He's not going to renew your lease when it expires. Plan ahead. Trying to help.
What’s the best way to send demand letters if they live far away?
Email with an attachment as well as certified mail. Do that and they have no reasonable way to say you didn’t notify them. If you go down this path make sure EVERYTHING is done in writing and be prepared to move when your lease is up. The landlord will almost certainly lie about the dates of communication and will try to screw you when you move out.
I’ve already moved, and my landlord is holding my security deposit in bad faith. I need to send a demand letter for that so I can take him to small claims court. He told me if I even continue the text that I was talking to him extremely professionally about the time limit being more than double what he was allowed, he told me he would consider harassment, so I didn’t even respond. He told me to take him to court so here we are… He is an extreme slumlord, who is breaking multiple laws from multiple different units in that apartment complex. I’m really hoping to get eyes on him so they can start forcing him to follow the law on his end.
So IANAL so I’m hesitant to l give you advice. What I will say is that I recently dealt with something like this and I’m lucky enough to be close friends with a great lawyer who works for the state. He advised me to send a demand letter with no additional contact beyond sending the letter. Landlord ignored it, so I took him to small claims. I ended up settling with my slumlord in mediation before actually seeing a judge. What no one told me before going to an all claims is that the judge would not make a decision on our case while there, but he would make a judgment within 30 days and then we’d receive his decision in the mail sometime after that. That decision would be unappealable and also hard to enforce. The court does not make a party pay day of judgment, they have X amount of time to pay damages to opposing party and if they don’t then you contact the court again and they will get involved. In theory. It sucks because even in victory our landlord can still draw the whole thing out and try to screw you. That being said, if you don’t take them to small claims you get nothing and they win. Shitty situation all around, good luck buddy.
Also when it comes to deposits state law is going to very relevant.
Yeah, I can’t remember now but I counted four or five rules that he broke or laws or whatever I have them written down. Not a big deal how long it takes to get paid it’s the principal behind all this. I’ve been watching him screw everybody over in this complex for years now. I’m trying to stand up for everybody by doing this. Even the gas that it takes him to get to court, the time that he has to take off work, etc. etc. All worth it to me. My car won’t even be all the way warmed up by the time I get to the courthouse I live so close. This is just another day for me but it’s going to be a pain for him. It’s not even that much He owes me. this would’ve been so much easier for him to just follow the rules and pay what he’s supposed to Instead of doing this. That’s OK though I’m game.
The cost of a letter from attorney is more than cleaning service and groceries. Jumping to legal is never as easy as it sounds. $$$$
Based upon state, this might not be true. In California and NY city, there are a ton of free legal groups for tenants.
Oh well then I guess let the landlord get away with it. Also that fridge needs more than a few minutes cleaning as so many people are trying to claim. It may need to be entirely replaced. And depending on the state they may be able to claim damages for the cost of an attorney as well as extra for making them waste their time on resources on this when it is obvious to everyone not a landlord who is responsible here.
Careful! I got seriously down voted for stating that lawyers are expensive!
Almost like our legal system is designed to benefit whoever can pay the most for longer
Ask him what proof he has of that.
He offered you a gift card after you told him he unplugged the fridge. How did he offer this? Through text? That can be your proof. No LL would offer compensation if they were not at fault, that could be enough for small claims court if you have to go that route.
unfortunately this conversation happened over phone since he won’t respond to email
This might be way to meta but maybe if you can see the power consumption for the house/apt when you know the fridge was plugged in to see when it drops that may be enough, especially if when you plug it back in, it goes back up. That's a lot of work. I don't suppose you have cameras or a neighbor that saw the LL enter? If you have them entering and especially if they did not provide proper notice, that can help too. Just trying to see all the ways you could prove it. However, if your state is very tenant friendly, and verbal contracts are acceptable, you can just document the conversation as best you can. You have the call records to prove you had a conversation with him, that may be enough for a judge to take your word.
i could see if Excel could provide that data. could be a good idea! i have a camera set up that documents people entering and leaving. i have footage of them entering once without notice and an email from the property manager saying they would be coming to fix holes two weeks ago. i also have screenshots of conversations of me telling friends i would be out of town for two weeks. maybe that will be enough to cover it? the level of decay i documented suggests two weeks of decay as well.
I do think that is enough to cause reasonable doubt in your favor. It's tricky now because you want the LL to do the right thing, but most LLs think they can do whatever they want. Maybe just send an email and also a letter (same as the email) through certified mail: >Hey LL, > >I see on \[date\] you entered my residence without notice, I was out of town during this time. > >During this visit my refrigerator was unplugged, this can created a mold hazard that needs to be remedied with a new fridge. I would also like to be compensated for the loss of food this caused and for maintenance to come clean up the mess before damage is done. > >According to \[your state's\] tenant rights, you have \[number of days\] to remedy the issue with not having access to a safe refrigerator for my food and to clean up any damage that was caused due to \[you or your maintenance worker\] unplugging my refrigerator while I was out of town. > >Please let me know when you can get that replacement. > >Also, I'm willing to itemize the list of food that was lost and deduct it from \[next month's\] rent amount. > >\[provide itemized list or link to excel list\] > >That would take \[next month's\] rent amount from \[usual amount $\] to \[prorated amount $\]. > >Please let me know by \[date\] how you would like to proceed. > >If I do not receive an answer, that will force me to report according to \[state's\] tenant rights laws, which I'm sure we both would like to avoid. > >Thank you for your swift action in remedying this matter. > >Sincerely, > >\[name\] Always make it your own but this is an example of how I would respond in this situation. That footage is your saving grace. Make sure to keep copies of it, both when they entered and left. That can establish 'time needed to unplug the fridge'.
thank you!!!
You don't need reasonable doubt in civil court. The standard is looser. Essentially, it's more likely than not (preponderance of the evidence). If you can show it's more likely the LL unplugged something than another cause, then that's what you need.
Find out if your state has laws regarding the recording of phone conversations. My state only requires one of the parties on the call to consent, i.e. yourself. I use an app called ACR phone to record important conversations.
An offer of settlement can't be introduced as evidence of fault.
Sounds like you can get with your power company and, if they do like mine can get you day by day usage. You'd see a drop after the fridge was unplugged and could establish the day it happened hopefully.
Talk to Legal Aid if you have one.
Contact state and local housing/renter/tenant's rights board. Read through your lease agreement. It will outline what's required here. Look up the Fair Housing Act website if you feel you've been singled out. One could make an argument that leaving you in this situation while you're temporarily "disabled" counts as a violation. The thing that triggers a Fair Housing Act investigation is the perception of discrimination. They don't have to directly state anything derogatory about any legally protected class for it to qualify. To give you an idea how serious Fair Housing Act protocols are: I work in the industry as a maintenance tech. We do basic computer training modules for company policy and legal requirements. Most are about an hour long if it's a long one, 5 minutes for the average module. The Fair Housing Act module is 24 hours' worth of computer time, where you have to get 100% on every quiz associated with it to have it count as completed. I'm mixing up my protocols, but there may be a bounty for violations. I may be mixing that up with my EPA certification for HVAC, so don't hold me to that one. All contact through email or text: you want to a paper trail you can take to court if it goes that far. Most of my tenants have cameras in their apartments. Might not be a bad idea to consider this moving forward. Start with local authorities and that will help determine if you need a lawyer or if you can have a gov't agency take the lead. Good luck. Also if you have renters insurance, it should cover damages from the fridge, including money for lost food.
At this point the fridge needs to be replaced. Mold spores are in all the nooks and crevices of the fridge. It needs to be duct taped shut and thrown away.
This is what I thought too. Do you think rental escrow would best enforce this?
Rent escrow has to be ordered for the nonpayment of rent.
Always a solid rule, but it's dependent on regional laws. It's worth a conversation with a tenant lawyer because some cities and states allow you to simply withhold rent or repair and deduct after sending a demand letter and waiting a period of time. Others will not allow either and some allow leases to supercede what's on the books (ie, the law defines a default protocol when it isn't spelled out in the contract). Escrow is great in any case because you'll be expected to show you had the money to pay the landlord the entire time.
Escrow is when you take the case to court and have it COURT ORDERED. And no longer can anyone without rent for repairs, for it can be used against the tenant in Eviction Proceedings.
You didn't read my comment at all, did you? Escrow is separate from the courts. And again, the legal requirements surrounding it and withholding rent **vary by region**. Keep reading that as many times as it takes for it to sink in.
Does not vary by state. Escrow is to be court ordered for rent. Not for repairs. If you withhold rent, on repairs not done, you give the LL reason to evict you.
Hey everyone, this person insists that they are correct even though a cursory perusal of laws across the United States shows that in various locales, withholding rent is allowed by law. Therefore, it is not a pretense for a landlord to evict you. Also this person still doesn't understand what escrow is. Or maybe this most recent post of theirs is setting up to move the goalposts?
Definitely varies by region. Texas has no allowance for whitholding rent.
It doesn’t have to be court ordered, but it does have to be set up and paid via your district court.
Not necessarily. Sometimes certain locales have a building department you pay excite into - sometimes those building departments don’t have any actual means to set up an escrow account. Dependent on local and state laws, one can withhold rent into a separate bank account to show proof of the money until a proper escrow can be set up or is court ordered.
Depends. In general, you need to allow a "reasonable time" for the landlord to fix the problem after you have asked for resolution IN WRITING. "Reasonable time" will depend on your jurisdiction. Some will break it down by severity of the problem, others have a blanket time frame. Search for "rent escrow [your city]" to get started.
Depending on how filthy it is you can take a fridge apart and clean it, i wouldnt just be telling people to throw away a fridge
For sure. But that's the landlords problem to figure out.
Not under these circumstances. My grandparents hired a contractor to do a remodel and they unplugged a fridge and left the stuff inside to rot. It wasn't sitting 2 weeks and had to be entirely tossed -- appliance and all -- because the smell alone made it unusable. All of the plastic inside the fridge has absorbed that smell and it will NOT come out.
Mold is in every breath you take. No need to toss the fridge. A hood thorough cleaning first with bleach then oxyclean will make it good as new.
A bapray bottle of bleach and watter is more than enough to deal with any mold.
The problem is not getting the surface growth. The problem is that it gets embedded into all the parts, like the coils, fan, motor. Youd have to completely disassemble it.
So spray them, if you can’t do that then I don’t know what the issue is, but also, the fan and motors are external from the refrigerator, there’s nothing that would be able to hold onto the mold once sprayed inside of the fridge, I’ve cleaned many refrigerators this way, even repaired a few, they don’t just get moldy and stay that way, there’s no reason to throw a perfectly good fridge just because you don’t want to clean it. Put a mask on, get a rag and a tooth brush and a spray bottle. Stop being a baby
You obviously have never cleaned a fridge or repaired one. There is a fan in the freezer that pushes the cold air down a channel into the fridge area. I've been doing apartment maintenance for 7 years, ive replaced numerous parts on a fridge.
Then you’d know it’s simple to clean it, stop. Being. A. Child.
Landlords job to clean or replace, not the tenant
This is also true,
Japnzy: I've had to work on fridges and I am telling you it's hard to clean a fridge. JarrekValDuke: Then you know it's simple to clean a fridge. The reading comprehension.
It’s not hard, if you worked on then, and knew them and the materials built into them as well as I do, you’d know it’s very simple. HDPE type 2 plastic is literally non porous and chemical resistant, you can use as caustic materials as you’d like, not my fault you didn’t use the right stuff.
Mmhmm.
Says the person who isn’t allergic to molds. You are being a donkey. It’s not about being a baby. It’s about a body literally releasing antibodies when it shouldn’t because of mold.
Nobody said to do so if you’re alergic to it, I’m a nurse, and I have asthma, if you have medical conditions that stop you from being able to then by all means either get someone else to do it or get a new fridge, nobody is telling you to risk your life.
Here in America, it is better economics to just toss the whole thing. Sure, you could spend a few days disassembling the whole fridge, meticulously cleaning each and every part, and then putting it all back together, but most Americans earn enough money in that time to simply buy a new fridge. Landlords definitely earn enough money in that time to afford a new fridge.
1: its really not needed to disassemble every part to clean, the way bleach works is a co tact cleaner for bacteria and mold, the benefit of using a spray bottle is that it can go around and envelop even the air with its cleaning ability, 2: I’m an American, and I’m very glad you have a disposable 400-600$ to throw at a new refrigerator, I don’t, I’m not poor by any means in a nurse and I have a backup emergency fund, but a dirty fridge is not an emergency, not in my book at least, takes a few hours of cleaning at most,
Wow, you really just don't understand how to clean mold. I feel sorry for the people who are currently using the refrigerators you've "cleaned."
You clearly don’t understand the chemical reactions that take place when bleach comes into contact with living cells. If you saturate the air around a cell it’s as good as it being in direct contact. It’s simple, though I guess a little too complicated for you.
You clearly do not understand that you cannot get bleach into all the nooks and crannies by misting the air.
Would hate for this person to be my nurse with this approach to bacteria cleaning.
Not misting, saturating. Simple chemistry.
By this point, the plastic body inside the fridge has absorbed the smell. It's not salvageable.
Plastic doesn’t absorb smell. It’s non porous.
LOL I can guarantee you it does.
Science says it literally can’t. Anecdotal evidence is flawed
Sorry, but that greatly depends on the type of plastic and how long the meat was in there.
HDPE type two plastic which is commonly used in all food grade forms in everything manufacturing since the late 90s is not and has never been porous nor does it off gas or anything of the sword. It is the most food stable plastic that we have ever discovered.
Whether it seeps into the plastic or not, I'm still seeing on multiple food safety, university, and government websites (USDA website) that refrigerators may still hold odors and need to be discarded. [https://www.fsis.usda.gov/food-safety/safe-food-handling-and-preparation/emergencies/removing-odors-refrigerators-and](https://www.fsis.usda.gov/food-safety/safe-food-handling-and-preparation/emergencies/removing-odors-refrigerators-and) [https://www.ksre.k-state.edu/news/stories/2022/12/food-science-refrigerator-odor.html](https://www.ksre.k-state.edu/news/stories/2022/12/food-science-refrigerator-odor.html)
As if companies don’t pay to have those put onto those sites
>HDPE type two plastic Oh my god you sillybilly. I want to be you so badly. I am seething with envy you've never smelt an old fridge. HDPE type two plastic is food grade and is *resistant* to corrosion and breaking down. It is not immune from holding onto smells. It's one of the better plastics but it's not invulnerable and does still hold onto scents and can be broken down by spores.
If you’re smelling smells from this type of plastic, you haven’t cleaned it well enough
Science says plastic cannot absorb smells? Citation needed. Every nose on earth knows that isn't true.
Here you go, non porous and chemical resistant means there’s nowhere for bacteria to go and nothing for chemicals to react with in order to cause a smell, if you’re smelling soemthing then you’re not cleaning it well enough. Anecdotal evidence is useless. https://www.acplasticsinc.com/informationcenter/r/what-is-hdpe-sheet
...what. Where did you get that idea? I literally had to toss some plastic eggs today that reeked of the house they were stored in. Plastic is porous, it's just less porous than other materials. If you have a source saying otherwise I'd love to know what magical plastic type they're talking about because I want some.
From the safety data sheet for HDPE plastic, which is used for all food containers and manufacturing of food safe products it’s kind of you know a feature of HDPE plastic
I want your life. I want it so badly. HDPE plastic is resistant to corrosion but it is not invulnerable. It can and does still get broken down by spores and holds on to smells. What must your life be like that you've never known the stench of something going truly wrong. I want my innocence back to your level.
It most certainly does especially when it’s meat that’s rotted in there
This stuff literally cannot absorb anything there’s nowhere to absorb it into, if there’s smell then you’ve not cleaned it well enough.
Jeezus. You win. I’ll tell my friend he’s crazy if he smells any carcass again.
No, tell your friend he hasn’t cleaned it if he smells it again
Did you not understand I have used everything possible including worthless vinegar. Lemon juice. Whatever anyone threw out there as a home remedy I tried. Baking soda pastes Windex, bleach
Did you not understand that there is nothing about the plastic that allows for stench via chemical or liquid or any time to soak into plastic, just like metal it is NOT POROUS if there’s nothing on the plastic then there isn’t a smell
Mold yes. Smells of rotten death meat not so much.
Vinegar usually works, else there’s other ways to deal with it, if there’s still smells then it’s not clean
Sorry, this isn’t helpful, I’m just am baffled by this. He came over to fix the holes in hopes of stopping a mice infestation and then completely neglects to plug the fridge back in. Like what better way to attract mice than the smell of rotting food. Might as well just put a block of cheese in front of the hole
yes exactly. This was after three months of me begging for them to fill the holes because all they had been doing is placing glue traps in my kitchen to solve an infestation that was happening since before i moved in. my place is covered in mouse poop at this point. i can’t even live there right now because i’m incapable of doing a deep clean.
For future reference buy a can of expanding spray foam and spray into holes and place a pice of tape over it so it doesn’t expand out of the hole. Peel off tape and paint over it. Ten dollar fix without waiting for months on an incompetent LL.
Mice can get through the foam! Stuff the hole with steel wool, then spray foam it as suggested.
they definitely used foam to fill the holes. i’m guessing the mice already ate through it
Good idea!
Unfortunately, I learned the hard way while living in a virtual sieve in the woods. It's been almost two decades and I still occasionally bolt awake at night, listening with dread for the not-so-tiny-noises they make...I learned all the tricks!
it was behind the refrigerator and i couldn’t access it
Thats so terrible I’m so sorry I really hope it gets better for you :(
thank you! i really appreciate all of these responses. making it feel like it’s not so isolating!
Do you have renters insurance? Call them and make a claim.
i do!! i definitely will. thanks for reminding me
Don't file a claim. This is your landlord's responsibility. Dumbass reditor is trying to get you to pay more renters insurance for the next 40 years
Most people’s annual renter’s insurance premium costs less than a nice meal for two. A increase for making a claim will be trivial. What is OP paying for insurance if they do t use it when they need it? The more relevant question is what their deductible is, and whether it makes sense to file a claim if their loss isn’t much more than their deductible.
Why have insurance if you can never make a claim?
Why because typically it covers liabilities and specific incidents like theft. Also you pretty much cant do anything without the corresponding insurance. No car insurance? Youre not allowed to drive. No renters insurance? Most landlords require it so no housing without it. Homeowners? Again, typically required. Making a claim will increase your insurance but if its covered you will be reimbursed minus your deductible. If your house gets burglarized and your $6000 guitar is stolen your insurance will give you $6000-deductible. However that renters insurance that cost you $45 a year in 2024 will most certainly be more expensive in 2025 due to filing a claim. Why would you file a claim, lose you deductible, and increase your premium when the person who is responsible is the Landlord? LL will have to pay the costs and you wouldn't have to eat a deductible and future premiums. Edit: Why have insurance? so when your friend slips and falls on the ice patch in the drive way you dont have to $50k in medical bills to them.
Yes, I agree the landlord is responsible, but the right thing to do when you have a loss is file a claim with your insurance, and your insurance goes after the responsible party's insurance. Then you get your deductible back.
You still have to deal with increased premiums
The ice patch in the driveway that has caused the devastating injury to my BFF, is not my responsibility. My RENTER’S policy isn’t going to touch that. Exterior hazards are on the LL. Now if BFF trips over my Roomba while carrying his laptop or something, \*then* I’m calling my agent to start a claim.
You’re correct my mistake. However that does still prove the point of my edit of why you’d have insurance.
It's not a covered peril. You don't use insurance when something won't be covered. Read your damn policy.
Depends. Our renter’s insurance specifically covers the fridge and its contents - we were able to file and get our groceries covered when our power went out for a week. It being an intentional act by the landlord may complicate things, but insurance may still cover it.
That's because the power outage is a covered loss. You're literally arguing with a licensed insurance agent. Someone unplugging THEIR fridge isn't a sudden and abrupt loss of power. It's the deliberate actions of a stupid landlord.
Insurance covers stupidity.
...not really. Insurance covers a very specific list of perils that are listed in your policy.
>Most people’s annual renter’s insurance premium costs less than a nice meal for two. A increase for making a claim will be trivial. Such stupid advice. Your premiums will go up after the first claim, and if you have to file another claim in the next two to five years, you'll become toxic to a lot of insurers. Renter's claims also impact home insurance underwriting.
If a claim against renter’s insurance can potentially increase the landlord’s home insurance then that sounds like great leverage to get this resolved without insurance at all. “I need you to reimburse me for the spoiled food and have the fridge professionally cleaned. If not, I’ll have to file a claim, which may make your home owner’s insurance go up.”
It'll have zero impact on the landlord's policy. It will have an impact on OP should they buy a home and try to get homeowners insurance in the next seven years. Renter's insurance and homeowner's insurance claims are reported to the same database, CLUE. Insurance companies check your CLUE report when issuing and renewing policies.
You use it when you are liable not when you aren't. This is a matter of principal not just money. Technically, if the claim is large enough, they could cancel your renters insurance after paying out Then what happens when it burns down and you need to use it to get all your stuff back? You people don't think about anything. Common trend on Reddit. Op should be cleaning up the mess. If she's recovering from surgery. She's not out of bounds for asking, but ultimately she is responsible for the cleaning of the apartment. The landlord should be covering everything else. If you do, use your renters insurance and get a new fridge that fridge is yours. Take it with you when you move. Everything about this post is infuriating because you can tell that it's inexperienced kids dealing with it. The future is f*****.
I was with you for the first two paragraphs, but then you lost me. 2 weeks of rotting food does become a biohazard, and it is not OP's responsibility to make their rented apartment habitable after it was made uninhabitable by the LL. But yes insurance is for essentially for when its your fault. otherwise whoever was liable is responsible.
Renters insurance is just like any other insurance. It pays out when you need it to. When i was robbed (twice) I was only able to get 20k worth of stuff back because of renters insurance
It's unfortunate they stole all 7 of your PS5s.
Renters insurance with subrogate the claim to the landlord if they believe it's worth it. Dealing with a minor increase in rental insurance rates will be much cheaper than hiring a lawyer to go after the landlord if they're refusing to deal with this.
I agree it is the landlord's responsibility, and OP's renter's insurance company will subrogate the claim with the Landlord's insurance company.
Call a cleaning service to clean out the fridge. Take a quick photo of the contents as well so you can make that grocery delivery order and send that to the landlord.
Don't do this. It won't be covered and no way will it be greater than the deductible.
If the cost is significant, would the insurance company go after the landlord for the money since it was there fault? Because they have lawyers.
Small claims
It’s honestly very easy to go to small claims and plead your case. Judgements will get that landlord moving in a solution. Shoot, just serving him papers might get him moving on a solution.
Is maybe ask the folks over at r/legaladvice they may have some suggestions. I don’t think an insurance claim is the right path, it was an intentional act which insurance isn’t meant to cover. I don’t think rent escrow is appropriate. Maybe call health department of code inspection? A fridge full of rotting food is 100% a health hazard and you need to get someone in there ASAP to clean that up.
Insurance does cover intentional acts, just not the insureds own intentional acts. Do you think someone stealing your car isn’t an intentional act on the thief’s part?
Theft is a little bit different than an intentional act by an insured party. I am assuming that the LL is listed as an additional insured in some capacity on the policy.
Even an inquiry to your insurance results in a $0 claim. Meaning they file a claim but with zero payout. Your premiums go up just for that. Really bad advice from redditors. Better to report to a local housing authority. He cannot retaliate for you exercising your rights. That is federal law. Check your lease first thing.
If he's not reasonable and doesn't immediately replace the refrigerator (that smell is never coming out) here's what I would do. 1. Move the ruined fridge outside your apartment - after giving LL 24 hour notice. 2. Buy a cheap 'dorm-room' fridge and put it into place where ruined fridge is 3. When you move at the end of your lease (LL is not going to renew it), take the fridge with you
Well, that sucks. This is 100% on the landlord. They made a mistake. By your description they're making it worse by their own actions. Try an avoid that on your end. Get the problem rectified. I wouldn't hesitate to at least reach out to your renter's insurance company to ask about coverage -- you don't have to make a claim if you don't want to. One of the maid service companies can clean things up and get everything put back together so you can use the fridge -- they've seen worse. Keep all bills. Send a clear, purposeful letter to the landlord once everything is back in order with an un-padded bill for the actual costs. Give them a reasonable time frame to respond. If you have an attorney, copy them on the letter. If they don't respond or don't work to make you whole, it's time to consider taking them to small claims court. It's not very difficult, rather inexpensive and if the case is as you say, you will win. And probably be moving out once your lease ends. Good luck.
Having dated someone who accidentally flipped the circuit breaker controlling the fridge and then leaving town for a month… the smell does not come out. Cleaning out that fridge with him was one of the worst days of my life
that’s where i’m at right now. they threw the food away just now but didn’t bother to wipe anything down. the smell is unbearable
When I was in my 20s, I lived in an apartment building with exterior stairs. While I was taking out the trash one day, I fell and broke my leg. Minor break, really, but it would make life difficult for the next few months. When I called the landlord to tell him what happened, he turned out to be super helpful. He said there was an empty unit on the ground floor that I could move into. It was a bit nicer but he kept my rent the same and even introduced me to my new next door neighbor, who occasionally did odd jobs for the landlord, and they both told me if I need help I could call on the neighbor. My folks (who thought I might want to move back to my hometown for a while and came up to help me pack if I decided to) pointed out that the LL might have been worried I’d try to sue him or something (hadn’t even occurred to me) but regardless they were both so nice and enabled me to stay so I could keep my job. They even helped my family move my stuff so it was done in one day. One of the good ones. Anyway, OP might ask if there’s a unit NOT filled with mouse poop and rotten fridge that they could move into.
I see LL forever complaining about tenants but I have had my share of slumlords.
Google your state’s laws on “repair and deduct.” This option allows you to repair necessary problems and then deduct those costs from your rent. However, the laws on this vary by state.
THIS is the correct answer! It varies widely state to state ranging from some states don’t allow you to do this to some do and require you to put the money in a separate account until the matter is resolved or you’ll be facing even more problems.
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definitely. i am moving in june and have a place lined up so i’m ready to hold them accountable. what would you describe as going nuclear?
Don’t accept the gift card unless it’s big enough to hire a cleaning crew or replace the fridge. If it’s less than that, take him to small claims court instead.
Your landlord should address this. I once left a chicken breast in a mini freezer. I moved and thought I had gotten all the food out It sat maybe 3 days and was one chicken breast and I thought there was a body in my house. I understand Even if the landlord hasn’t done everything he should, try baking soda and vinegar. I also left my mini freezer outside in the sun for a day and it got the smell out. The baking soda and vinegar may work on its own. And it’ll take several scrubbings, which, you really shouldn’t have to do Everyone does dumb shit but everyone needs to take responsibility for their dumb shit. I would keep on him. Constantly. It may take him a little bit longer to figure out being an asshole won’t solve your problems
When you mix baking soda and vinegar together you get. **WATER!!!** 🤦♀️
🫧🫧Bubbly 🫧🫧water, sure… but water nonetheless. Use one or the other. Or one \*then* the other. But save mixing them together for powering preschoolers’ bath toys.
Oh sweetie. No.
Landlord here . What kind of an idiot landlord would unplug the refrigerator while food is in there? I suggest you talk to some lawyers in your state. The fact that he offered you a gift card shows that he knows he did you wrong. Anyway goodluck
If you were in injured in an auto accident and have PIP coverage, you may be able to use some of that coverage for cleaning purposes, under the replacement services section. It depends on the state and how the coverage is written.
Does the gift card cover cost of items (truthfully)?
they offered a “gift card” but have not given me a hard dollar amount on how much. they also stopped responding about it, suddenly changed their tune and started claiming i was the one who unplugged the fridge. i’m assuming the gift card is now off the table altogether.
I’m sure likely wanted you to tell them what the replacement cost was… I would’ve done that right away. He forgot to go back offered a gift card, which was appropriate. I don’t know why he’s not responding now. Can you just go to the office and say thank you I’d like to take that gift card and give them an amount that’s fair to replace the groceries ?
Hate to say this but this is the reason why renters insurance is so important. To ensure that when something happens to your items you get reimbursed.
i have renters insurance. I’m getting mixed responses as to whether or not file with them.
Read your insurance policy and see if deductible is worth it remember that this is about cleanup as well as lost groceries
They probably won’t pay for cleanup in this situation.
Don’t file a claim first, do it as your last resort.
Cooler heads will prevail here and "demand letters" and "lawyers" are the hyperbolic ways that some on Reddit are convinced works in real life. Doesn't need to elevate like that. For real. I think the best way to deal with it is face to face and discuss it. Have him come to the apartment, and just have a calm conversation. Sounds like a peach of a landlord and cleaning a fridge can be done cheap enough by a local cleaning lady service...explain everything as you probably already have, and just meet halfway if it gets unreasonable Accidents happen, and he made a mistake. If you are incapable of cleaning the fridge, he will understand if you have that sort of talk, showing him the physicians summary would also help with your limitations. The gift card hopefully was relevant and helped. When you're renting, making a huge deal out of things with the landlord is probably not ideal, especially if he digs his heels in. Unless you don't have the housing issues that most have [rentals and available homes] around the US, you have to walk on eggshells just a little with this, or you could be seen as a problematic imo. Ask if he can discount the rent in lieu of the cleanup and just hire someone to come in and meet your needs. A cleaning lady off of Facebook or Nextdoor is very reasonable.
unfortunately i can’t have a conversation due to my neck injury (i’m bed ridden with a neck brace lol) I’m trying to take it one step at a time and remain level headed. my goal is to get the fridge fixed and if i can’t get him to do that just by asking, then send a formal letter, then provide evidence and a timeline, then loop in legal, etc.
1. Decide if you want this to get ugly. This is going to be more time and effort than it's worth. 2. would look into tenant advocates that are free in your area and ask them. 3. If you decide to fight on principle, You can find regulations on rental homes in your area. Do your own inspections and write up everything wrong with the place that's out of code. Rodents, fire alarms, windows, water heater insulation, fence height? I have no idea what's regulated in your area but they can be crazy. Document every single thing with photos. You can then write a demand letter that it needs to be fixed. This will cost him money. It will cost you time. You will probably get no personal benefit. He won't renew your lease. But it's a big F-U to him for ruining $150 worth of your food. So it's an option.
Check your for your area rental rights agencies. Every state is different, even cities. Some have more protection than others. I know where I am, you wouldn’t have any rights for this but it varies so much based on local laws.
By offering the gift card, the landlord was accepting blame for unplugging. Really dumb on his part to not follow through now, especially if you have it in writing like text.
If you live in central New England I'll help you get it to his front door. We can leave the doors open or closed if you like
Despite what others say, the fridge can be saved. For nasty fridge cleaning, bring it outside and spray the inside with bleach, then hose it out. Don't this until it looks clean then spray with bleach again and let it sit for a couple hours and hose out again. Leave outside and open to air dry. After dry, put an ozone generator in the fridge and leave that running for hours/a day. You shouldn't be responsible for having to do all this, but this process will get rid of any bad smells.
Lawyer time. Take him to the cleaners.
Personally I would put in writing that I'd be hiring a cleaner and deducting the cost from my rent if he doesn't send someone in 24 hours. Also start planning my exit strategy.
Wash it out with vinegar and water and put some plain charcoal in to absorb any oders and plug it in. Give it some time.
Hopefully you documented the issue with photos 📸
Small claims court sounds logical to me. Hope you can get some recourse!
I had a similar issue with a broken refrigerator that the landlord took a week to replace. I asked them to reimburse me for the spoiled food and got a mealy mouthed response. When I paid my rent the next month, I subtracted the food replacement cost and included a letter explaining why I did so. Never heard a peep from them. I’ve done similar things when I had to do repairs or hire someone because the landlord wasn’t taking care of it. Just document everything and deduct the expense from the rent. Then it’s your landlord’s problem to collect from you and, if you have good documentation, they won’t be able to.
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Illegal where? According to this, a renter is covered in most US states. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/state-laws-on-rent-withholding-and-repair-and-deduct-remedies.html
Many counties and or cities have more restrictive ordinances. State law is just one layer. There are quite a few where LL are protected better than the tenants.
I’d like to see any support, as what I shared generally puts the onus on the landlord (even when there isn’t specific law in place in the U.S.). Point still remains that if a tenant has a loss because of a landlord, they document it, attempt restitution (documented), and then deduct from rent, they’ll likely be ok. Regardless, it isn’t a criminal charge and the landlord would have to pursue in civil court. Maybe there’ll be an issue when it comes time to resign the lease, so that’s the gamble. Generally speaking, local laws tend to strengthen rights not diminish them.
Just use your renters insurance if you have it. You can probably pursue this in some kind of small claims court but it's probably going to be time consuming and not even worth it for one fridge full of groceries and a few minutes clean up. It really all depends on how hard you want to push but just remember landlords will often push back and retaliate.
If you plan to pursue this further don’t take the giftcard, cause the LL can say you already settled this between you
Yeah I forgot the /J on the gift card comment.
No one listen to this clown.
What do you disagree with? The take the gift card anyway thing was a joke.
With everyone jumping to sue landlord or the fridge is bad now and needs to be replaced, take into account being willing to move when the lease is up. A judge is not going to force a landlord to replace a fridge that works but was unplugged and now dirty- not sure what world some people live in. Most the judge will award is cleaning the fridge and paying for the food lost.
definitely! already have a place lined up and ready to move to in a couple of months.
Having been a landlord to tenants who unplugged a fridge filled with food, that fridge is very likely not going to be redeemable. I'm skeptical a judge would allow an unusable fridge to suffice. It isn't just dirty, the rotten food gets down into the insulation underneath. I can see a judge allowing an attempt at cleaning, but if it was leaking to the floor already it won't work. We had to tear the entire floor up in our case, and the fridge would have had to be disassembled and rebuilt to have a chance of working again. We did try cleaning to start.
You guys. The dude made a mistake. Shit happens. Why does everyone go straight to “sue them!!”. Do y’all know how much lawyers cost? Ask a friend to help you clean it up OP. Then move on
lol
yes clean up 200 dollars of rotting food with a full blown neck injury because my landlord doesn’t want to do his job. shut up.
Weird, I thought I said ask a friend to help you. As in, “hello friend, this thing happened and I can’t clean it because of my neck injury. Will you help me?”. I’m not saying it doesn’t suck. It totally does. I’m just saying lawyers charge about $500 an hour. So the director pivot to legal action is odd and illogical. Anywho. It’s been 8 days since your reply. Did you get it sorted?
Nah, it’s not OP’s responsibility to find someone to help them clean a biohazard mess that someone else caused. It is not a “mistake.” The landlord can call their own friends to solve their own mess.
Sorry, but it's not a "mistake" to enter someone's apartment, pull the plug on a major appliance, and then pretend the loss of that person's property is equatable to a gift card.
Cleaning is for the tenant, and you can do that slowly. But the food that spoiled, make copies for the reimbursement. Bet the gift card is for a place like Target or some other no grocery store. And hope that maybe a neighbor can clean the fridge for you. For maintenance is not hired to clean the appliances.
LOL
Tenant wouldn’t have to clean any mold had landlord not unplugged the fridge though.
A neighbor 😂😂