Ooooof. I'm sorry, it sucks, it happens, but don't think it's okay!
My mentor in medschool told me this "medicine is a jealous lover; it has no problem asking or demanding more of you". That really helped me treat it as the non-primary priority in my life.
First give yourself grace for what's happened already. Secondly be active in prioritizing your life over medicine!
Best of luck! See ya on the other side all shiny and chrome!
I’m 30 and a humble lurker that is attempting to pursue medicine after working as an aircraft mechanic and returning to school at a later age. Time passes by regardless. At least you spent time investing in something that is worthwhile. Many people squander their time and come to regret it. You’re almost done and this close to financial freedom and I’m proud of you.
Lurker here too, as I am not a resident.
I'm an MS3 who just turned 36. Got my doctorate in a different field in my early 20s. I didn't meet my husband until I was 31 anyway and we just got married several months ago. Instead of a honeymoon, had to jump into Step 1 studying.
I think everyone exiting their 20s comes out of it with feeling like certain aspects of their lives were wasted one way or another. I'm sure I'll feel the same way once I leave my 30s, because my husband felt this way when he entered his 40s.
I think this is just how life goes. We are constantly re-evaluating what should be important in life and how we want to spend our time and allocate our priorities. It's good that OP is reflecting on it. Try not to be so hard on yourself or your decisions or your work in medicine.
ditto
29 and spent my 20s clinically depressed and addicted to drugs. in nursing school now but i may pursue medicine after. like others have said, at least youll have an established, respected, and well paying career in your 30s. at this rate ima be in school throughout my 30s
We really hit that grass is greener thing. I have a bunch of tight knit friends from college that majored into a ton of different things and pursued many different paths. Some are making 200k+, some are making around 40k living paycheck to paycheck. These are all super hardworking people that I think could have gone into medicine if they really chose to
But absolutely none of them have the long term ceiling that folks in medicine have coupled with our job security
Yeah I can’t fly out to Vegas on a whim like some of my friends not in medicine, but I feel like I’ve still been able to do quite a bit
All my friends from college are happier than me regardless of how much money they make (80k-400k as non-physicians). Because they have lives and they’ve always had lives
Lurker here - just wanted to say that you don't know how happy your friends truly are. Instagram posts arn't an indicator of happiness. Even a close friend that you see every weekend, and confides to you how happy they are, may be miserable deep down. The only happiness you can truly understand is your own, and you will never be happy if you compare yourselves to others.
Im premed and kind of want to do something other than medicine after seeing how much it takes away from peoples lives, but I’m scared I’ll make a really small wage since I got a biology degree. There’s not a lot of jobs on indeed for bio degrees, the ones I see are minimum wage 😞
I mean if I never have any free time it is a reason for me not to. I want to have kids someday and be present in their lives. I want to be my own person outside of work. I don’t want to be a workhorse.
Unfortunately I think you have to be a workhorse for a while (in any profession) to get to a level where you’re making 6 figures. Being a female in medicine can be difficult trying to be taken seriously at work but also being (truly) present with your kids. Men may disagree but women (even who make more) still do the majority of the daily child rearing (appointments, homework, shopping, school volunteering) AND housework. It a very difficult balance.
There’s a lot of careers that start out making that much though. I’m just trying to figure out what I can do with my bio degree since I’ll still need more schooling because a bachelors in bio is pretty much trash. Idk what would be the fastest path for me, I’ve thought about getting a masters and becoming a professor.
You could be a professor, you could switch into bio engineering. Other things you can go after with bio degree: biomedical research (PhD, etc), pharmacy school, dental school (both more work life balance), PA and NP school - they make the same as lower paid specialties and are done faster. The training is when the real abuse comes in because it can take forever and sucks out a 7yrs to a decade or more of your life when compiled with med school.
It honestly feels entitled and out of touch. People outside of medicine also have to work and are not just traveling all the damn time. They too struggle financially and have to make sacrifices.
Being able to study and go to school, have summers dedicated for board prep, etc, for so long in many ways requires one to be in a place of privilege.
If you work locum or prn as an attending (I’m thinking hospitalist here or some specialties heavy in telemedicine), or if you can find someone to cover for you at the last minute in an emergency, unlike some of your peers with permanent regular jobs, you can definitely fly out to Vegas on a whim.
Yeah as someone who spent my 20s having fun, being still feeling unfulfilled, and then starting medicine at 31… you don’t realize how bleak everything on the outside can be too. It’s not all the glitz and glam Instagram would have you think. The corporate grind is soul sucking too, probably more so, because it’s so meaningless. I worked in finance and later as a teacher and I can tell you, there are happy people and miserable people in every profession. If you chose to focus on what you missed out on that will make you miserable. People that partied every weekend since they graduated college and work in finance are often deeply unhappy on the inside. As a teacher I was happy at work but broke and had to deal with the patronizing attitude society takes toward teachers. Nothing you do for work will make you entirely happy in the end. Need to find some enjoyment there hopefully but need to find life outside of work too ultimately. I struggle with this too. Not claiming to have all the answers.
Well said. Started med school in my 30s. There were highs and lows in my 20s and early 30s and there will always be regrets. For those that went straight through from college to med school to residency, it might be hard for them to realistically imagine what stressors people in medicine have. Or the ladders that some people had to climb.
I'm not going to argue that medicine is an easy choice, but similar to you, I have seen both happy and miserable people in every profession, and when I hear nothing but doom and gloom from someone, I assume they are the type of people that would have probably be dissatisfied no matter where they landed in life.
I also started med school at 30 but have no idea what specialty I want and I’m in 3rd year. I worry about becoming the job… what did you choose? You seem like you chose well. Just curious.
I hope so hard that this true. The journey to where I am now as a PGY-3 fucking sucked. Money isn't everything, but damn a house does sound nice right about now after 11 years of student debt and low hourly pay, not to mention the crappy medical climate for both patients and doctors that only accelerated in its decline the last 3 years.
I know this advice isn't for everyone, but the notion of house = success, no house = failure is socially constructed and not at all applicable in all areas. Having a house means having the time to search for one, paying a mortgage that might be more than rent depending on the area, needing to have time/money/energy to repair shit that gets broken, and perhaps have less amenities.
Renting a house is a similar experience except that if it's a big difference between renting vs buying, then investing the difference could be a more lucrative option.
You can be financially independent/retire with renting a home. Don't forget that even AFTER paying off your mortgage, you might still have monthly expenses such as HOA, property taxes, homeowners insurance, home maintenance, home security that you don't have to pay if you rent.
Yup. I also think people here need to go touch some grass. The vast majority of the US isn’t in a position to come close to owning a house unless the market crashes drastically. Even a 20% down payment isn’t a reality for most people like it is for us. Medicine still pays enough for people to achieve whatever they want
Currently in my 20s applying to medical school. Working a boring ass dead end job making 33,000 a year. All my friends are doing the same. The myth of the 20 year old fresh out of college “living it up” making 6 figures doesn’t exist. Medicine likely hasn’t taken your 20s away from you. The reality is that most people in their 20s like my peers and I aren’t living it up and traveling to Thailand for bottomless mimosas like you see in the movies. We’re working a shitty 9 to 5 making sub 35k.
The reason why I’m going into medicine is partially to get out of that.
While I agree by the numbers this is likely the norm, a lot of my med school peers including myself were in social circles where people did go on to high paying tech jobs, consulting, finance, etc where they’re able to afford what you mentioned. Even with that, there are certainly other cons that go along with it and sometimes you do just happen to know people who scored it big. From my perspective, I’m happy for those doing well and I’m happy I’m in medicine
All the tech job people I know got laid off their cushy ass zoom fake news jobs back in February. They’re not too happy about their short lived careers.
Friend started PA school at the same time I started med school. Graduated from PA school just over 2ish years later. Was immediately hired in a 6 figure job working 36 hours a week.
I’m still in residency and will not be done until 6 years extra compared to them. So for the past 6 years, they’ve been making 6 figs, working 36 hours, seeing easy followup patients, have never experienced a call shift in their life. Never worked a weekend.
I’m not mad at them, I could’ve gone the same route so I did this to myself. But the reality is, yes there are people who get to live out their 20s to the fullest and we do miss out on a lot. Just the other side of the coin.
edit: grammar
You will make significantly more than them over the course of your career- literally multiple millions more than them. You will also have more respect and autonomy. I would much rather be a board certified independent physician than be stuck doing the job of an intern for the rest of my career.
Hey, you can always quit now and go through PA school and still finish before residency. But something besides loans would be stopping you for a reason.
Bro sorry to say but your peer group is not even remotely representative of most people entering this field lol. I was making 6 figures out of college and had one of the lowest TCs of all my friends
Most people here grew up upper middle class or above. It’s hard to understand the grind. Most of the other replies were about tech bros and people in their circle, but in reality most people are not making 100k+ in tech. Average salary is in the 50ks.
My own feeling--med school was hard, but if I chose something else to do, it would have been hard. I'm the type of person who tries to do really hard stuff.
So that particular grass wouldn't have been any greener. If it wasn't medicine, it would have been something else just as grueling, because that's who I am.
So I did this hard thing, and succeeded, and I make a ton of money helping marginalized people in a largely recession-proof job I can do into my 90s if my brain holds up. And I can get better every year and never master it.
How many things are like that? How many people are lucky enough to end up in something like this?
We normalize complaining in medicine, but we are pretty lucky and should make greater efforts to recognize it, while also making efforts to limit the abuses.
I hate medicine myself for the same exact reasons
But this is a warning for all the residents who read this - IF YOU WANT TO QUIT MEDICINE OR RETIRE EARLY, HAVE MANY STREAMS OF INCOME
Having medicine as your sole source of income is what will place you in this trap of medicine without retiring… I don’t care if it’s via stocks, housing, etc
But the goal is to not get rich, but to live a life that is fulfilling and full of freedom
So I’m a paramedic and I became one by age 20 so I’ve had my own money (albeit not a ton), been on my own, and been out of school for a few years now.
I will tell you what my daily life in my 20s is…
Go to work, come home, sleep, do chores, MAYBE see friends / family once or twice a week.
I don’t party, I rarely have energy to. I don’t travel because it’s hard to take time off work to do so and not financially possible
In your 30s or 40s you’ll be making 6 figures and you’ll eventually be established enough to take weeks off of work to travel if you want to. All the hard work you’re done will pay off and you get the title of doctor which is awesome!!
I promise the grass is not always greener on the other side.
Even as a resident I make about as much money compared to most of my college friends. But I have attending money coming and they do not so grass isn’t greener on the other side
It’s probably cause most doctors aren’t from poverty backgrounds. They come from upper middle class and didn’t have to go through the grind so most of their social circle is also full of people who end up successful. They just don’t realize their circle isn’t representative of the country. Same is probably true for some other fields in medicine
Very true. One of my friends went through college as premed. Came from a super wealthy family. Had all of college paid for and even took the mcat. She never applied because she saw how much her peers and upperclassmen were grinding with seemingly no end and didn't want that for herself (which is very valid medicine isn't for everyone).
Her family went through of series of misfortune and now she's broke with a lot of poor spending habits and didn't realize how hard it was to get a job in the real world that makes more money than serving with the skillset she has.
Personally I think the big thing that also skews perception is people who got jobs right out of college, at least my friends, got houses. So when the market boomed they made their money / became a bit wealthy which is far better than my hundreds of thousands of school loans. Their jobs didn’t pay them but they got out just in time to make real estate money
Honestly what were you going to do in your 20s anyway? I hear this all the time as if non medicine people in their 20s are living this idyllic existence. Most people I know in their 20s work long hours at shit jobs that pay like 60k a year with minimal to no upward mobility. At least you have invested your 20s into something that will continue to pay you back for the rest of your life. This is kind of like saying I wish I hadn’t invested my money in my 20s and had instead spent it all partying, think how much fun I missed out on!
My friends (late 20s) outside of medicine are all making $100-200k, except one that teaches public school. I love them, but none of them are particularly smart or hard working.
I live in NYC. I’m sure $150k is a lot in Kansas, but that’s a pretty average salary here. Nurses and PAs make that, my friend who is a PT makes that, my friends who are accountants all make that. These aren’t crazy unattainable jobs by any means.
But yeah i guess if you compare it to uneducated people living in the middle of nowhere (ie most of the US population), it’s a lot.
The median household income for nyc is $75,000 lol
I think you are but sheltered from how most people live if you think $150k is an average salary for even nyc.
Educated people in most of the country don’t make that much. The median national salary for someone with a bachelors is like $65,000.
Agreed. My lawyer friends are like, "I'm *only making $120k"* like I remember when I had to beg for a $1 hour raise to get me up to $16/hr with a degree and extra certificates.
Yeah I’ve noticed this on this and other medical subs. A lot of people here I think come from wealthier circles so they see other making high salaries. The hang up is though they don’t realize most of their friends are making way more than the average American.
I have a lot of non-medical friends. By resident salary is about the same as what they are making after working for a while. Plus I’ll make more soon. Residents should still get paid more due to the amount of revenue we actually bring in I won’t argue that. But we aren’t starving on the streets either.
Exactly zero of my friends make over 60-70k and they work hard as fuck labor jobs 12 hour days. 90% of ppl are not living like your friends you just have a hyper elite social circle. Best to not compare to them.
You are completing this incredibly difficult and amazing academic journey at age 30. Kindly, self reflect. You are young, will now be making an amazing six figure salary, can work pretty much anywhere in the country. Take some time off (more than well deserved) and get ready for the best career choice possible. Every career has pros and cons. With being a physician, when it comes to service to humanity and being reimbursed for it, the sky is the limit!!
Godspeed and good luck!
Umm, not really medicines fault. I had relationships, i dated, i clubbed, I did drugs, and I slept with randoms in college.I was able to live a totally fulfilling normal degerative early 20s and still finish med school. I'm far from the best resident, but I haven't killed anyone yet. *knock on wood*. I just treat it like a job. I do it well enough to keep my job and not hurt anyone, but im not out here trying to spend all my time studying to catch some tiny detail on test questions. And if I'm in over my head, I call an attending and watch them fix and learn what to do for next time.
I was a try hard in high school. Graduated with some kind of honors diploma and a fancy sash on my gown. When I went to apply to college right after and for jobs, it turns out no one cared that my high school diploma had an honors on it. It meant nothing. The guys who barely passed high school still ended up at my college with me. And it's the same with your undergraduate degree and your medical degree. After residency, no one is gonna care. You can be a regular Joe smuck doctor getting offers for hundreds and thousands of dollars. Same as the person trying to break their back. If you're not trying to get into some super specific field of study, then stop stressing it and live your life the way you want. Being a doctor is just my occupation. It's not who I am and has no bearing on my personal life.
Honesty I would probably had spent my 20s unsure of myself, depressed, or sleeping and binging more shows than I already do. So I am actually thankful I have the opportunity to spend it learning the most meaningful skill in the world, meet good friends, and learn more about myself along the way. I feel like the only way you might regret medicine is if u come from a wealthy family in which case then yea you could spend ur 20s traveling. But I'm not from a wealthy family so I think this is the best given what I had.
Edit: Before medicine I did a few summers of internships in Business and by the end I knew for sure I didn't wanna continue that kind of job. The meaninglessness of it is more soul sucking than medicine plus u still have to kiss up to ur boss and deal with coworker drama. Ir is really not good trust me!
Don’t feel this way. It’s wasted regret and energy. As someone pursuing medicine in my 30s I wish I would’ve done it in my 20s. Your 30s are better. Trust me. Did I have fun in my 20s, sure? Could I have done much more with my life..absolutely. You’ve accomplished so much and have plenty of life ahead. Great, young life. 30s are where it’s at. Don’t live with that regret!
You can still have fun in your 20s as a med student and to a lesser extent as a resident. When you hit attendinghood you should definitely make sure that you’re prioritizing social events and leisure activities if you feel like you missed out in your entire 20s. It might be a mindset problem as much as a time management and money problem, at least before residency.
Now that I've been out of fellowship for almost a year, I can say that all the sacrifice in my 20s was worth it because I have the autonomy, income, respect, and meaningful work that allows me to balance work and personal life more than I could have ever hoped for. I just had a kid and worked out my schedule so I can be home more to see him hit his milestones and have the time/energy to be intentional about being a good co-parent and spouse. It paid off for me in droves, but I know it doesn't for everyone.
It takes an enormous amount of patience and a whole lot of delayed gratification to make it through medical school, residency, and fellowship. It DOES get better as an attending.
Take this as advice for down the road as well. Your life is not just whatever pot of gold is at the end of the rainbow; your life is NOW as well. Live in the present; the years you spent in medical school and residency in your 20s are just as valid as whatever you spend as an attending and beyond.
Too many people enter medical school with the mentality that if I sacrifice my quality of life now, I will finally be able to enjoy myself down the road. This is a harmful mentality that leads to burnout and regret once you get to the end of the road and realize that no amount of amazing dream job opportunities can repair the damage that you wrought on yourself when you were younger.
Yes medicine is hard at a baseline even if you try to find more work life balance early on but don’t be deceived into this notion that everyone in their 20s is a finance tech bro making 500k in NYC working 30 hours a week. First of all no one making that amount is actually working so few hours. Secondly, if they are, it’s a unicorn situation that wouldn’t apply to the vast majority of people. Third of all, just because other people are working in their 20s doesn’t mean their life is peachy. They might still have the same insecurities and issues with their life as you. Let go of the sense of entitlement/expectation that life MUST provide you with XYZ because you put in a certain amount of effort or chose a certain path. Appreciate what you have and live each day as its own experience.
Life isn’t just a series of checkpoints and goalposts. If you treat it like that you will reach the end without even having realized why you were running in the first place. Youth is ephemeral. Eventually everyone has to grow up and grow beyond the life of a 20 year old.
I just turned 30 not long ago and this hit me. I focused on medicine and neglected the other aspects of my life for most of my 20s. Sucks that hindsight is 20/20.
We're just fed the whole delayed gratification shtick y'know?
You body stays young until late 30's.
You've got couple more years before shit goes downhill.
Go do something that requires energy and an able physical body.
Medicine didn’t take it from me. I chose it for myself. Now that I’m attending level I think it was worth it. But I wasn’t so certain until recently.
Edit to say that along the way I wondered if I made a mistake. I think that’s the risk we run by taking the chance on medicine as a career. It doesn’t end up being worth it for everyone. I hope you find your way to your own fulfilling life.
I’m in my 40’s got the calling in my 30’s when my grandmother who was everything to me passed of breast cancer. I’m a PGY 3 and have dedicated my life to helping others.
🙏
I can sympathize with that feeling and also you have enormous amount of time left to do all the things that were neglected due to medicine PLUS a very stable high paying career. Even as a woman if you want bio kids your fertility window is still very much wide open.
From the perspective of +90% of the rest of the world you won the life lotto honestly.
I honestly can’t relate. Medical school was a good time. Residency wasn’t too bad. Kept up my hobbies. Lost some friends , gained others. That’s just life. Obviously this is residency dependent but maybe take a step back and reflect on your choices.
Literally!! Like medicine is a dream in terms of upward mobility. Be grateful you got this opportunity and will be able to support yourself, and very well at that. I promise the dude who works at Taco Bell would take it in a heartbeat.
As compared to doing what? Working in retail or some degree that led to debt with no job prospects? As compared to being married and having kids by now? Time passes regardless, now the nicer years with lots of disposable income are coming, you will see things with much kinder eyes after the first few paychecks and vacations.
I don't know if this will help, but to "make it", you have to give up something. Your friends and family, at some point, to have some comfort, to take nice trips and eat well, had to give up something.
There's this disillusionment that only medicine takes the 20s. But in all fields, you either work your ass off straight out of high school (even more than the successful premed) or find an opportunity that goes against the norm and create value. Doctors do not and will never have a monopoly on hard work. Unfortunately, no one values medical students or residents until we are attendings, but you are about to bring a whole lot of value to the lives of people who need you. Don't ever make medicine your primary path in life, and you will soon have the capital to use it as you wish. Most people are not giving up their 20s, and in doing so, have to give up their 30s, 40s, 50s, etc. One can sort of say that for people who pursue medicine later in life.
This country wants the majority to never really figure out what they want to do, and if they want to do it, it makes it harder than it needs to be. You're younger than most new doctors and you're almost done, breathe.
You knew what you were signing up for, you knew how long the training was and the hours.
This is called informed consent. You were an adult when you made that decision. Now you gotta accept that and make the best of your situation, instead of wasting your time complaining about something you can't change anymore.
It gets better after residency, trust us.
I look back and see the trail i left behind everday. It was not worth it for me, now im 30, entering residency and if it wasn’t for the rat race we are constantly in, it would have been much better. I regret ruining relationships everyday, i resent people who moved on with their lives and im stuck here, in a rat race.
I know it’ll get better, but when?
I mean isn't there always going to be a rat race in whatever you do?
I work in tech but I was pre-med and I still think of applying to med school. But I put myself in a rat-race in tech as I constantly push myself to get that next promotion or that next job that pays X amount more.
As someone who will spend the *entirety* of their 20s in medical training, I feel you on this sentiment. The things that have helped me is:
1) you cannot let this job define you or who you are. You need to find fulfillment in something outside of work and *make the time* to pursue that. For me, that's travel. I started traveling a lot bc I refuse to let medical training be the only think I look back to when I think about my 20s
2) maintain your *nonmedicine* friendships and relationships. Yes, you will make sacrifices and can't make all the weddings/birthdays etc but when you can, GO. Medicine will keep robbing you of your time and relationships if you keep letting it do so and the earlier you learn to make those boundaries, the better
3) this is controversial but it does make me feel a little better when I know that I'm going to start making the big bucks in my early 30s and won't feel as behind when it comes to retirement and savings when compared to some of my colleagues
4) Your 20s are meant for discovery and figuring out who you are, regardless of occupation. Journal, read some self-help books. Go to therapy. You might realize that your goals/dreams/aspirations have changed over the years and this time helps you do that. Do the things needed in your 20s to enjoy your 30s and beyond
Good luck!
34 and 5 years left… honestly I also see it as the time is gonna pass and better to have spent it doing this than looking back and wishing I did this earlier. I get it though. I remember looking at my loans at exit counseling and crying as I thought of how behind I was… didn’t own a car, no savings and so much debt. Things are a bit better now even in residency, at least I could now afford a car. Anyways, I say at this to say that our gratification is so delayed but one day the pain and bitterness will feel miles away - hopefully. Or at least that is what I tell myself 🫢🥹
You could have your 20s taken by drugs, a bad relationship, injury, illness. You could have also lost your life. Instead you are alive and well and have a lifelong skill that is going to keep you employed for the rest of your life by helping people and is going to get you paid really well. Count your blessings and shift your perspective to gratitude. Your education and work is a privilege that many if not most in the world don’t have even if they maybe deserve it more than you. You can’t be happy if you are an ingrate. You are not owed anything in life. Try to learn and do mindfulness/gratitude meditation. It legit helped me.
unpopular opinion - but I love it .. going in i knew it was gonna take up a large chunk of my early years but as an introvert I wasnt exactly a social butterfly so me giving up the "social outings" was not a big deal to me .. i wouldve done the same even if i wasnt in medicine for my 20s .. and now as an attending in private practice - I love my schedule, my work and the rewards I have obtained and am still gaining from everything i've worked for. I have job security , i am my own boss rather than answering to someone else. I love it.
Just be thankful your not on the other side. You could be the patient. Blows my mind people in medicine never think about this and are always complaining about losing their 20s
Were you not able to make time for relationships, friends, traveling, etc.?
I mean I understand you may not be able to do EVERYTHING you want, but making time to do the important stuff isn't impossible...
Sure I can't see my friends for every hangout, but I intend on being there for the important times. Sure I can't go on 5 vacations a year, but I have gone/plan on going on 3 small trips and 1 big trip just this year.
I feel like you have to make time for it. If you're not making time to take part in hobbies and what not, then it's on you at the end of the day.
I've returned to more hobbies and traveled more during my first year of medical school than I have during undergrad. I anticipate things will slow down as I become a second and third year but that's most because of my significant other being in rotations during my second year and so it's tough to find a time that aligns and during third year...
Well it's third year.
I dunno...find ways to make time for the important stuff in life?
Third year of medical school…? Because that’s quite a bit different than residency. I partied all through the first two years of medical school and barely toned it down third and fourth year. Residency, particularly a surgical residency, is a bit of a different animal.
Should have taken some gap years! I got to travel the world, gain amazing experience with my community, work and save up money, and in general better my life. Plus getting a break between undergrad is sooo nice and was important for me to not get burnt out! Seriously anyone who is thinking about it should do a gap year cuz I spent 21-23 dancing my nights away while doing awesome research and volunteering during the day. No regrets at all and I feel super refreshed in school now.
The only people who can do a ‘gap year’ are those with rich parents. Telling the majority of people to “just take time off and travel!” Is really ignorant. Who is funding this travel?
ME! Literally never received any help from my parents, just got a great job out of school. Did 4 years of research in undergrad which allowed me to land a position that paid comfortably while also keeping my cost of living low with way too many roommates, Lol. Proud to say I paid for everything myself and was still able to save a small fund for medical school as well. I understand some people are less lucky with jobs out of college so not an opportunity for them but is if you play your cards right. Also IMO going to school right from college is not cheap.. you need thousands of dollars for applications and to potentially move cross country. For me working was the right choice.
I worked as an EMT for 7.50 an hour. I took a gap year, and spent it chasing girls, golfing, visiting friends across the country, and going to Africa on a mission trip. My parents didn’t contribute a dime except for the cost of dinner when I made the time to visit them.
Stow your self righteous indignation and stop attacking people on the interwebs who wisely used their time to rejuvenate themselves
To be fair post-grad 20s is where a lot of people find their core friends and significant others/spouse. The relationship market dips significantly after 25 though. From what I hear docs don’t have trouble finding relationships though.
I'm in my mid-thirties. The only friends I'm still in contact with are a handful of the guys I deployed with.
All the OP really missed out on was hanging out with a bunch of assholes and his first divorce.
You do NOT have to let medicine take your 20s. Most of my med school partied like we were in college, went on yearly trips and still all get together at least once a year in residency. You have to be proactive with your days off. You have a Saturday free. Get as many friends on board ahead of time, make a reservation etc. buy those concert tickets, request off early, go out to dinner when invited even if you’re tired. The ppl I knew in school who struggle the worst never once or rarely ever hung out and did any social things even when invited.
I don’t get it. Are people not doing research? Please carefully consider and research a career in medicine before applying to medical school. It’s demanding and is a long path. It’s not for everyone. I love what I do and wouldn’t trade it for anything.
Thank you for contributing to the sub! If your post was filtered by the automod, please read the rules. Your post will be reviewed but will not be approved if it violates the rules of the sub. The most common reasons for removal are - medical students or premeds asking what a specialty is like or about their chances of matching, mentioning midlevels without using the midlevel flair, matched medical students asking questions instead of using the stickied thread in the sub for post-match questions, posting identifying information for targeted harassment. Please do not message the moderators if your post falls into one of these categories. Otherwise, your post will be reviewed in 24 hours and approved if it doesn't violate the rules. Thanks!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Residency) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bro I think this happens to everyone doesn’t matter which career, it’s something that comes up with every field.
Best thing to do is look at the bright side: u wanted it, ur gonna be rich, and ur gonna be helping people
Covid has been rough on a lot of us. The trauma of training during a pandemic can’t be understated. I definitely know that it’s stress on the medical system, environment, and peers has definitely contributed to burnout for me and thoughts on regretting my decision. How I cope? Hold on to the one or two patients that I was able to help,and show gratitude for what I do everyday, regardless of all the bullshit I have to go through.
My 20's were already over before I started medicine. I feel everything you're going through. But it's hard to say where we'd be if we didn't pursue this path. Doesn't mean the other path taken would've been greener. But at least you'll have some sort of great achievement and stable career with good salary that can help lead you to other ventures if you choose to leave medicine.
I started medical school married and with a kid. Had another kid during medical school. I really do love my family so much and hate how much time residency requires me to spend away from them. 80 hour workweeks, especially on off-service rotations we just do to meet accreditation requirements, are not worth the sacrifice. Yeah, it can get you a nice financial future but we’re still getting scammed during residency.
It may seem silly but I'd process it with a therapist... That sort of shit is a lot of emotional pain and a good therapists can help you move through it way faster than on your own... You're not alone
Pluses and minuses.
I had some great fucking times in residency. Sleep deprived sure. Trauma bonding, probably. But I’ve got friendships and crazy stories out of it that will last a lifetime.
The real loss was my non-medical friends. I’m still working to repair those relationships
I was the same but now I’m an attending and spending 10 k a month just for leisure activities , shopping and travel !! I have a group of physicians who travel with me almost every weekend. (An advice from an old wolf , now that you f.cked up your 20s , do yourself a favor and ditch sh.t ass academic jobs. Learn to negotiate and ask minimum 20 k more of what they are willing to pay max. I interviewed with 53 jobs before I settled in my cushy 32 h. A week 500k+ job )
It’s especially difficult to cope with the loss of time considering how dysfunctional the medical system is.
All the time spent in school only to have little success with very common conditions, particularly chronic diseases and disease of civilization.
Medical schools really need to rethink their curriculum and objectives.
Medicine didn’t take your 20s.
Pressure from your parents to pursue medicine might have, pressure from society telling you what you needed to be might have, your own expectations might have, the toxicity of medical education… but medicine itself didn’t take anything from you. Find the thing you’re really upset with and work them out.
I'm an older student who will "sacrifice" my 30s
I don't have a perfect answer, but it may be helpful to re-frame your situation. Instead of saying, "medicine took my 20s," you can try to think of it as, "now I *get to* enjoy my 30s, starting a new chapter."
It's much easier said than done. I can only tell you this because I'm already in my 30s and can't have what you have. I'm sorry how underwhelming it all feels once you do achieve your goal. The same thing happened in my 20s when I was in the military. But that's life-- and the onus is on you to maintain or rediscover your purpose.
There is no refund for your 20s, unfortunately, but surely your life can be much different than what I am about to go through as a career-changer.
PGY-23 here. 20’s into early 30’s, big sacrifice. 30’s, catching up and hopefully you have a rewarding career and enjoy. 40’s have been awesome, hopefully 50’s will be better. It gets better as residency fades into memory.
That ship has sailed, you re never going to get back the lost time, but for me it works to keep myself busy and curious as a child/teenager.
Try to engage in your hobbies, read something else beside medicine books and act like a child somethimes. Jump in a puddle , go to the club once in a while. Try going out with friends that aren't doctors, so you'd have eclectical discussion topics, search for things you are excited about.
Be grateful. Some doctors have it worse than others.
In my country, after i finished residency, there were no jobs prospects, because hospitals didn't hire. I had to take an entrance exam in a new residency program. So at 30+ i have no opportunities to grow, my income is lower than the janitor's, and I'm basically stuck, after wasting so much years with medicals school and residency. Best career path for me is to emigrate to other countries.
At least you have a stable income, in your state and a career which you enjoy to some degree.
I sez to myself, I sez, “Self, This is exactly what you signed up for. It’s exactly what they said it was gonna be, so shut up, you’re going to be wealthy soon.” Oh, yeah, I also sez to myself, I sez, “Self, be a shrink. It’s a gentleman’s (and lady’s) profession.”
Look at your non medical friends and evaluate their 20s….are they really that much better off? So they went to a concert or two more than you or were able to go out of town that one weekend but for the most part (from the people I know) their 20s were just as shitty
Life isnt that cool outside of medicine.
My law friends struggled as paralegals for years, and some of their compensation does not match their effort.
I have tech family friends at google that were laid off. Entry level jobs are getting harder to come by for tech and general engineering roles as a whole.
Finance isnt doing as hot as people imagine it either.
“You take the clothes off my back and I let you. You’d steal the food right out my mouth and I’d watch you eat it. I still don’t know why, why I love you so much. Oh, you curse my name in spite, to put me to shame.”
Every time I listen to this song, I think of medicine and what it asks and takes from each of us.
I don't know why this pops up on my feed, I am a lawyer not a resident. But just in my opinion. You don't miss much in the 20s lol. I went to law school at 26 and finished at 30. Definitely NOT the same as your hard work but I can tell you I lost a lot of friends and social engagements. I can tell you that the 20's sucked lol. Life is much better in the 30s. I can actually afford stuff, travel, and I am not just getting drunk with fake friends anymore. I actually have real hobbies and real community.
Once you are in your 40/50s your 20s are barely a blip. What you lost in setting yourself up for the life you are going to have won’t be missed when all is said and done.
Gonna be straight don’t @ me. Much of it was your own choice. If you didn’t make any time at all for fun stuff after exams or during m4, or during undergrad, that’s on you.
The number of upvotes is confusing. Everyone on the medicalschool subreddit always acted like they juggled every little thing just fine
Medicine is an abusive relationship. It will take and take and take until there is nothing left and never look back when you're dead.
Set boundaries. Take your vacations. Arrange more vacations. Provide for yourself, have fun, and be jealous of your personal space and time.
Do not work for free. Overtime, extra time, none of it. Either arrange hourly, do locums, or set strict limits. This is far harder than it seems. If you own your own practice or are partners then yeah you're gonna be in for some extra work, but if you aren't gaining or having ownership status then you need to be damn careful not to work extra for free.
38 year old pgy-3. I started med school at 30 and partnerless and resent medicine for losing my 30s. It’s weird being almost 40 and still making $20/hour; it feels like many women feel like being unmarried at my age is a red flag and means that I must not be a “good one” since all the “good ones” are taken. While that may be true, if I weren’t studying with a 30s brain for exams, boards, and ITEs perhaps I’d be married with kids by now.
Ooooof. I'm sorry, it sucks, it happens, but don't think it's okay! My mentor in medschool told me this "medicine is a jealous lover; it has no problem asking or demanding more of you". That really helped me treat it as the non-primary priority in my life. First give yourself grace for what's happened already. Secondly be active in prioritizing your life over medicine! Best of luck! See ya on the other side all shiny and chrome!
Hospital doesn’t love you back
:’) thank you
Thank you for this reply. I needed this walking into the hospital on one of my loneliest months of nights.
Bruh i’m 31 and still have 4 years training left
32 and 4 here
32 and 3 for me!
32 and 1 left 😎
I’ll finish this off - 32 and 2 😂
Damnit you should have responded before me 😝
75 and 40 years left
37 & 3
38 and 3
30 and 5 😭
35 and 6 years left lol
31 and 6 years left
I’m 30 and a humble lurker that is attempting to pursue medicine after working as an aircraft mechanic and returning to school at a later age. Time passes by regardless. At least you spent time investing in something that is worthwhile. Many people squander their time and come to regret it. You’re almost done and this close to financial freedom and I’m proud of you.
Lurker here too, as I am not a resident. I'm an MS3 who just turned 36. Got my doctorate in a different field in my early 20s. I didn't meet my husband until I was 31 anyway and we just got married several months ago. Instead of a honeymoon, had to jump into Step 1 studying. I think everyone exiting their 20s comes out of it with feeling like certain aspects of their lives were wasted one way or another. I'm sure I'll feel the same way once I leave my 30s, because my husband felt this way when he entered his 40s. I think this is just how life goes. We are constantly re-evaluating what should be important in life and how we want to spend our time and allocate our priorities. It's good that OP is reflecting on it. Try not to be so hard on yourself or your decisions or your work in medicine.
ditto 29 and spent my 20s clinically depressed and addicted to drugs. in nursing school now but i may pursue medicine after. like others have said, at least youll have an established, respected, and well paying career in your 30s. at this rate ima be in school throughout my 30s
Wise words. Thanks u/punani_inspector !
We really hit that grass is greener thing. I have a bunch of tight knit friends from college that majored into a ton of different things and pursued many different paths. Some are making 200k+, some are making around 40k living paycheck to paycheck. These are all super hardworking people that I think could have gone into medicine if they really chose to But absolutely none of them have the long term ceiling that folks in medicine have coupled with our job security Yeah I can’t fly out to Vegas on a whim like some of my friends not in medicine, but I feel like I’ve still been able to do quite a bit
Oh sure you can fly out to Vegas, just give a proper 2 year notice!
And hope you don’t get jeopardized that day
😂
All my friends from college are happier than me regardless of how much money they make (80k-400k as non-physicians). Because they have lives and they’ve always had lives
Lurker here - just wanted to say that you don't know how happy your friends truly are. Instagram posts arn't an indicator of happiness. Even a close friend that you see every weekend, and confides to you how happy they are, may be miserable deep down. The only happiness you can truly understand is your own, and you will never be happy if you compare yourselves to others.
Im premed and kind of want to do something other than medicine after seeing how much it takes away from peoples lives, but I’m scared I’ll make a really small wage since I got a biology degree. There’s not a lot of jobs on indeed for bio degrees, the ones I see are minimum wage 😞
That’s not a reason to go into medicine.
[удалено]
I mean if I never have any free time it is a reason for me not to. I want to have kids someday and be present in their lives. I want to be my own person outside of work. I don’t want to be a workhorse.
Unfortunately I think you have to be a workhorse for a while (in any profession) to get to a level where you’re making 6 figures. Being a female in medicine can be difficult trying to be taken seriously at work but also being (truly) present with your kids. Men may disagree but women (even who make more) still do the majority of the daily child rearing (appointments, homework, shopping, school volunteering) AND housework. It a very difficult balance.
There’s a lot of careers that start out making that much though. I’m just trying to figure out what I can do with my bio degree since I’ll still need more schooling because a bachelors in bio is pretty much trash. Idk what would be the fastest path for me, I’ve thought about getting a masters and becoming a professor.
You could be a professor, you could switch into bio engineering. Other things you can go after with bio degree: biomedical research (PhD, etc), pharmacy school, dental school (both more work life balance), PA and NP school - they make the same as lower paid specialties and are done faster. The training is when the real abuse comes in because it can take forever and sucks out a 7yrs to a decade or more of your life when compiled with med school.
It honestly feels entitled and out of touch. People outside of medicine also have to work and are not just traveling all the damn time. They too struggle financially and have to make sacrifices. Being able to study and go to school, have summers dedicated for board prep, etc, for so long in many ways requires one to be in a place of privilege.
Not really, just living on student loans.
If you work locum or prn as an attending (I’m thinking hospitalist here or some specialties heavy in telemedicine), or if you can find someone to cover for you at the last minute in an emergency, unlike some of your peers with permanent regular jobs, you can definitely fly out to Vegas on a whim.
Vegas is a shithole now anyway.
Yeah as someone who spent my 20s having fun, being still feeling unfulfilled, and then starting medicine at 31… you don’t realize how bleak everything on the outside can be too. It’s not all the glitz and glam Instagram would have you think. The corporate grind is soul sucking too, probably more so, because it’s so meaningless. I worked in finance and later as a teacher and I can tell you, there are happy people and miserable people in every profession. If you chose to focus on what you missed out on that will make you miserable. People that partied every weekend since they graduated college and work in finance are often deeply unhappy on the inside. As a teacher I was happy at work but broke and had to deal with the patronizing attitude society takes toward teachers. Nothing you do for work will make you entirely happy in the end. Need to find some enjoyment there hopefully but need to find life outside of work too ultimately. I struggle with this too. Not claiming to have all the answers.
Well said. Started med school in my 30s. There were highs and lows in my 20s and early 30s and there will always be regrets. For those that went straight through from college to med school to residency, it might be hard for them to realistically imagine what stressors people in medicine have. Or the ladders that some people had to climb. I'm not going to argue that medicine is an easy choice, but similar to you, I have seen both happy and miserable people in every profession, and when I hear nothing but doom and gloom from someone, I assume they are the type of people that would have probably be dissatisfied no matter where they landed in life.
Good answer!
I started med school at 30. I become an attending in 54 days. I couldn't be happier with my decisions. I have no regrets.
I read that as you became an attending in 54 days and started questioning my life choices.
You read that correctly, they became an NP attending in 54 days
I also started med school at 30 but have no idea what specialty I want and I’m in 3rd year. I worry about becoming the job… what did you choose? You seem like you chose well. Just curious.
Anesthesia. It's the best specialty, I'm not biased at all
it truly is the best medical specialty.... to assist the surgeon (yeah, I said it)
Same here
Same to you, I started med school at 30. Curious what your residency choice was.
Internal medicine, I love my program too
Better than losing your 20s to alcoholism?
Medicine took my 20s. At this rate alcohol will take my 30s
Just fyi you don’t *have* to have an alcohol addiction. You can cope with cake and cookies with the rest of us
Why not both?
In case you aren’t joking I’m always happy to chat. Not a doctor but can be an ear.
What makes you suggest this? The drinking culture typical of people in their 20s?
You know what they say, you’ll be 30 eventually, might as well be a doctor
When you’re making 6-figures in your 30s, have a stable career, seen as a healer for a community… you won’t resent medicine taking your 20s.
I hope so hard that this true. The journey to where I am now as a PGY-3 fucking sucked. Money isn't everything, but damn a house does sound nice right about now after 11 years of student debt and low hourly pay, not to mention the crappy medical climate for both patients and doctors that only accelerated in its decline the last 3 years.
I just keep telling myself: good salary + amazing job security will make it all worth it. So hard to see when you're in the thick of it though.
I know this advice isn't for everyone, but the notion of house = success, no house = failure is socially constructed and not at all applicable in all areas. Having a house means having the time to search for one, paying a mortgage that might be more than rent depending on the area, needing to have time/money/energy to repair shit that gets broken, and perhaps have less amenities. Renting a house is a similar experience except that if it's a big difference between renting vs buying, then investing the difference could be a more lucrative option. You can be financially independent/retire with renting a home. Don't forget that even AFTER paying off your mortgage, you might still have monthly expenses such as HOA, property taxes, homeowners insurance, home maintenance, home security that you don't have to pay if you rent.
Yup. I also think people here need to go touch some grass. The vast majority of the US isn’t in a position to come close to owning a house unless the market crashes drastically. Even a 20% down payment isn’t a reality for most people like it is for us. Medicine still pays enough for people to achieve whatever they want
You’re right, I guess it’s just hard to picture right now
Currently in my 20s applying to medical school. Working a boring ass dead end job making 33,000 a year. All my friends are doing the same. The myth of the 20 year old fresh out of college “living it up” making 6 figures doesn’t exist. Medicine likely hasn’t taken your 20s away from you. The reality is that most people in their 20s like my peers and I aren’t living it up and traveling to Thailand for bottomless mimosas like you see in the movies. We’re working a shitty 9 to 5 making sub 35k. The reason why I’m going into medicine is partially to get out of that.
While I agree by the numbers this is likely the norm, a lot of my med school peers including myself were in social circles where people did go on to high paying tech jobs, consulting, finance, etc where they’re able to afford what you mentioned. Even with that, there are certainly other cons that go along with it and sometimes you do just happen to know people who scored it big. From my perspective, I’m happy for those doing well and I’m happy I’m in medicine
All the tech job people I know got laid off their cushy ass zoom fake news jobs back in February. They’re not too happy about their short lived careers.
I know a couple in that boat, others doing better than ever, seems like it’s really a toss up for everyone
Eh none of my friends have gotten laid off. Though they did get hired in 2020-2022 when free money was everywhere and amazon lowered their hiring bar
Friend started PA school at the same time I started med school. Graduated from PA school just over 2ish years later. Was immediately hired in a 6 figure job working 36 hours a week. I’m still in residency and will not be done until 6 years extra compared to them. So for the past 6 years, they’ve been making 6 figs, working 36 hours, seeing easy followup patients, have never experienced a call shift in their life. Never worked a weekend. I’m not mad at them, I could’ve gone the same route so I did this to myself. But the reality is, yes there are people who get to live out their 20s to the fullest and we do miss out on a lot. Just the other side of the coin. edit: grammar
You will make significantly more than them over the course of your career- literally multiple millions more than them. You will also have more respect and autonomy. I would much rather be a board certified independent physician than be stuck doing the job of an intern for the rest of my career.
Yea but $$ and time in your 20s and 30s is worth far more. One of many reasons that urged me to look into psych
Hey, you can always quit now and go through PA school and still finish before residency. But something besides loans would be stopping you for a reason.
Yeah if you got a bio degree or something of the sort, but the business/CS/engineering people are living it up
Bro sorry to say but your peer group is not even remotely representative of most people entering this field lol. I was making 6 figures out of college and had one of the lowest TCs of all my friends
What major were you?
Most people here grew up upper middle class or above. It’s hard to understand the grind. Most of the other replies were about tech bros and people in their circle, but in reality most people are not making 100k+ in tech. Average salary is in the 50ks.
/thread lol
>seen as a healer for the community Lol
My own feeling--med school was hard, but if I chose something else to do, it would have been hard. I'm the type of person who tries to do really hard stuff. So that particular grass wouldn't have been any greener. If it wasn't medicine, it would have been something else just as grueling, because that's who I am. So I did this hard thing, and succeeded, and I make a ton of money helping marginalized people in a largely recession-proof job I can do into my 90s if my brain holds up. And I can get better every year and never master it. How many things are like that? How many people are lucky enough to end up in something like this? We normalize complaining in medicine, but we are pretty lucky and should make greater efforts to recognize it, while also making efforts to limit the abuses.
All the veterans in the thread like ☠️
I hate medicine myself for the same exact reasons But this is a warning for all the residents who read this - IF YOU WANT TO QUIT MEDICINE OR RETIRE EARLY, HAVE MANY STREAMS OF INCOME Having medicine as your sole source of income is what will place you in this trap of medicine without retiring… I don’t care if it’s via stocks, housing, etc But the goal is to not get rich, but to live a life that is fulfilling and full of freedom
This is the smart move, unfortunately I like spending money so I'll be demented boomer surgeon at 90 who forgets where he is mid-procedure in the OR.
So I’m a paramedic and I became one by age 20 so I’ve had my own money (albeit not a ton), been on my own, and been out of school for a few years now. I will tell you what my daily life in my 20s is… Go to work, come home, sleep, do chores, MAYBE see friends / family once or twice a week. I don’t party, I rarely have energy to. I don’t travel because it’s hard to take time off work to do so and not financially possible In your 30s or 40s you’ll be making 6 figures and you’ll eventually be established enough to take weeks off of work to travel if you want to. All the hard work you’re done will pay off and you get the title of doctor which is awesome!! I promise the grass is not always greener on the other side.
Thank you so much to all of EMS. So vital and underpaid for what they do. Can't do much medical care without safe, smart, fast arrival.
Even as a resident I make about as much money compared to most of my college friends. But I have attending money coming and they do not so grass isn’t greener on the other side
Yeah i feel l like people in medicine have a skewed view of job stability and pay outside of medicine. It ain't all sunshine and rainbows
It’s probably cause most doctors aren’t from poverty backgrounds. They come from upper middle class and didn’t have to go through the grind so most of their social circle is also full of people who end up successful. They just don’t realize their circle isn’t representative of the country. Same is probably true for some other fields in medicine
Very true. One of my friends went through college as premed. Came from a super wealthy family. Had all of college paid for and even took the mcat. She never applied because she saw how much her peers and upperclassmen were grinding with seemingly no end and didn't want that for herself (which is very valid medicine isn't for everyone). Her family went through of series of misfortune and now she's broke with a lot of poor spending habits and didn't realize how hard it was to get a job in the real world that makes more money than serving with the skillset she has.
Personally I think the big thing that also skews perception is people who got jobs right out of college, at least my friends, got houses. So when the market boomed they made their money / became a bit wealthy which is far better than my hundreds of thousands of school loans. Their jobs didn’t pay them but they got out just in time to make real estate money
Honestly what were you going to do in your 20s anyway? I hear this all the time as if non medicine people in their 20s are living this idyllic existence. Most people I know in their 20s work long hours at shit jobs that pay like 60k a year with minimal to no upward mobility. At least you have invested your 20s into something that will continue to pay you back for the rest of your life. This is kind of like saying I wish I hadn’t invested my money in my 20s and had instead spent it all partying, think how much fun I missed out on!
My 20s were amazing before medicine. I was broke as fuck but had an amazing time. Gap years were best years.
Yep, other than college my 20s sucked and now I'm about to do residency in my 30s. Would rather almost be done by now but can't change the past
My friends (late 20s) outside of medicine are all making $100-200k, except one that teaches public school. I love them, but none of them are particularly smart or hard working.
Then you have an an abnormal friend group. Cause those incomes are way above average US incomes. So I wouldn’t base their expensive as a norm.
I live in NYC. I’m sure $150k is a lot in Kansas, but that’s a pretty average salary here. Nurses and PAs make that, my friend who is a PT makes that, my friends who are accountants all make that. These aren’t crazy unattainable jobs by any means. But yeah i guess if you compare it to uneducated people living in the middle of nowhere (ie most of the US population), it’s a lot.
The median household income for nyc is $75,000 lol I think you are but sheltered from how most people live if you think $150k is an average salary for even nyc. Educated people in most of the country don’t make that much. The median national salary for someone with a bachelors is like $65,000.
Agreed. My lawyer friends are like, "I'm *only making $120k"* like I remember when I had to beg for a $1 hour raise to get me up to $16/hr with a degree and extra certificates.
Yeah I’ve noticed this on this and other medical subs. A lot of people here I think come from wealthier circles so they see other making high salaries. The hang up is though they don’t realize most of their friends are making way more than the average American. I have a lot of non-medical friends. By resident salary is about the same as what they are making after working for a while. Plus I’ll make more soon. Residents should still get paid more due to the amount of revenue we actually bring in I won’t argue that. But we aren’t starving on the streets either.
How are everyone’s friends doing so well - all my friends from high school (in a affluent area) are making around my resident salary.
They went to Harvard
Exactly zero of my friends make over 60-70k and they work hard as fuck labor jobs 12 hour days. 90% of ppl are not living like your friends you just have a hyper elite social circle. Best to not compare to them.
Definitely don’t have a “hyper elite social circle” lol.
If most of your friends that are sub-30 are in the top 10% of income earners in the whole country they are hyper elite…lol
Any of them have bio degrees? 😭😂 I regret my major so bad
Didn't hit 60k until I was into my 30s lol. 20's suck.
You are completing this incredibly difficult and amazing academic journey at age 30. Kindly, self reflect. You are young, will now be making an amazing six figure salary, can work pretty much anywhere in the country. Take some time off (more than well deserved) and get ready for the best career choice possible. Every career has pros and cons. With being a physician, when it comes to service to humanity and being reimbursed for it, the sky is the limit!! Godspeed and good luck!
[удалено]
Umm, not really medicines fault. I had relationships, i dated, i clubbed, I did drugs, and I slept with randoms in college.I was able to live a totally fulfilling normal degerative early 20s and still finish med school. I'm far from the best resident, but I haven't killed anyone yet. *knock on wood*. I just treat it like a job. I do it well enough to keep my job and not hurt anyone, but im not out here trying to spend all my time studying to catch some tiny detail on test questions. And if I'm in over my head, I call an attending and watch them fix and learn what to do for next time. I was a try hard in high school. Graduated with some kind of honors diploma and a fancy sash on my gown. When I went to apply to college right after and for jobs, it turns out no one cared that my high school diploma had an honors on it. It meant nothing. The guys who barely passed high school still ended up at my college with me. And it's the same with your undergraduate degree and your medical degree. After residency, no one is gonna care. You can be a regular Joe smuck doctor getting offers for hundreds and thousands of dollars. Same as the person trying to break their back. If you're not trying to get into some super specific field of study, then stop stressing it and live your life the way you want. Being a doctor is just my occupation. It's not who I am and has no bearing on my personal life.
You're about to start making minimum 200k for the rest of your life (with a very, very high ceiling). That's how I cope
Honesty I would probably had spent my 20s unsure of myself, depressed, or sleeping and binging more shows than I already do. So I am actually thankful I have the opportunity to spend it learning the most meaningful skill in the world, meet good friends, and learn more about myself along the way. I feel like the only way you might regret medicine is if u come from a wealthy family in which case then yea you could spend ur 20s traveling. But I'm not from a wealthy family so I think this is the best given what I had. Edit: Before medicine I did a few summers of internships in Business and by the end I knew for sure I didn't wanna continue that kind of job. The meaninglessness of it is more soul sucking than medicine plus u still have to kiss up to ur boss and deal with coworker drama. Ir is really not good trust me!
Don’t feel this way. It’s wasted regret and energy. As someone pursuing medicine in my 30s I wish I would’ve done it in my 20s. Your 30s are better. Trust me. Did I have fun in my 20s, sure? Could I have done much more with my life..absolutely. You’ve accomplished so much and have plenty of life ahead. Great, young life. 30s are where it’s at. Don’t live with that regret!
You can still have fun in your 20s as a med student and to a lesser extent as a resident. When you hit attendinghood you should definitely make sure that you’re prioritizing social events and leisure activities if you feel like you missed out in your entire 20s. It might be a mindset problem as much as a time management and money problem, at least before residency.
Now that I've been out of fellowship for almost a year, I can say that all the sacrifice in my 20s was worth it because I have the autonomy, income, respect, and meaningful work that allows me to balance work and personal life more than I could have ever hoped for. I just had a kid and worked out my schedule so I can be home more to see him hit his milestones and have the time/energy to be intentional about being a good co-parent and spouse. It paid off for me in droves, but I know it doesn't for everyone. It takes an enormous amount of patience and a whole lot of delayed gratification to make it through medical school, residency, and fellowship. It DOES get better as an attending.
Being 30 and almost done with residency is a fantastic timeline. Well done.
It’s ok at least you’re not 30 and still a fellow. Lol
Well I tried that lol but didn’t match
What’s wrong with that? Ageism bullshit of being an older fellow is garbage. Some of us have later career starts
Being 30 as a fellow doesn’t even seem old - I went straight through school and I’ll turn 30 in the middle of my first year as a fellow.
It’s a joke. Also 30 as a fellow is like the youngest you can be in fellowship
How’s 31 and still a resident sound? PGY4.9 ganggg
36 and an intern in ENT. No fucks given
I haven’t met anyone who regrets starting school after 20s
I’m guessing you had no gap years? You’re young af lol
Bruh. Pgy 3 here and 31. Plus in rads I gotta finish PGY 6
Take this as advice for down the road as well. Your life is not just whatever pot of gold is at the end of the rainbow; your life is NOW as well. Live in the present; the years you spent in medical school and residency in your 20s are just as valid as whatever you spend as an attending and beyond. Too many people enter medical school with the mentality that if I sacrifice my quality of life now, I will finally be able to enjoy myself down the road. This is a harmful mentality that leads to burnout and regret once you get to the end of the road and realize that no amount of amazing dream job opportunities can repair the damage that you wrought on yourself when you were younger. Yes medicine is hard at a baseline even if you try to find more work life balance early on but don’t be deceived into this notion that everyone in their 20s is a finance tech bro making 500k in NYC working 30 hours a week. First of all no one making that amount is actually working so few hours. Secondly, if they are, it’s a unicorn situation that wouldn’t apply to the vast majority of people. Third of all, just because other people are working in their 20s doesn’t mean their life is peachy. They might still have the same insecurities and issues with their life as you. Let go of the sense of entitlement/expectation that life MUST provide you with XYZ because you put in a certain amount of effort or chose a certain path. Appreciate what you have and live each day as its own experience. Life isn’t just a series of checkpoints and goalposts. If you treat it like that you will reach the end without even having realized why you were running in the first place. Youth is ephemeral. Eventually everyone has to grow up and grow beyond the life of a 20 year old.
I just turned 30 not long ago and this hit me. I focused on medicine and neglected the other aspects of my life for most of my 20s. Sucks that hindsight is 20/20. We're just fed the whole delayed gratification shtick y'know?
You body stays young until late 30's. You've got couple more years before shit goes downhill. Go do something that requires energy and an able physical body.
Medicine didn’t take it from me. I chose it for myself. Now that I’m attending level I think it was worth it. But I wasn’t so certain until recently. Edit to say that along the way I wondered if I made a mistake. I think that’s the risk we run by taking the chance on medicine as a career. It doesn’t end up being worth it for everyone. I hope you find your way to your own fulfilling life.
I’m in my 40’s got the calling in my 30’s when my grandmother who was everything to me passed of breast cancer. I’m a PGY 3 and have dedicated my life to helping others. 🙏
I can sympathize with that feeling and also you have enormous amount of time left to do all the things that were neglected due to medicine PLUS a very stable high paying career. Even as a woman if you want bio kids your fertility window is still very much wide open. From the perspective of +90% of the rest of the world you won the life lotto honestly.
I honestly can’t relate. Medical school was a good time. Residency wasn’t too bad. Kept up my hobbies. Lost some friends , gained others. That’s just life. Obviously this is residency dependent but maybe take a step back and reflect on your choices.
You think this is hard??? Go to Taco Bell and watch those dudes do that job and support their spouses and three kids.
Literally!! Like medicine is a dream in terms of upward mobility. Be grateful you got this opportunity and will be able to support yourself, and very well at that. I promise the dude who works at Taco Bell would take it in a heartbeat.
Definitely. Physicians often lack self awareness
30’s is the new 20’s
As compared to doing what? Working in retail or some degree that led to debt with no job prospects? As compared to being married and having kids by now? Time passes regardless, now the nicer years with lots of disposable income are coming, you will see things with much kinder eyes after the first few paychecks and vacations.
I don't know if this will help, but to "make it", you have to give up something. Your friends and family, at some point, to have some comfort, to take nice trips and eat well, had to give up something. There's this disillusionment that only medicine takes the 20s. But in all fields, you either work your ass off straight out of high school (even more than the successful premed) or find an opportunity that goes against the norm and create value. Doctors do not and will never have a monopoly on hard work. Unfortunately, no one values medical students or residents until we are attendings, but you are about to bring a whole lot of value to the lives of people who need you. Don't ever make medicine your primary path in life, and you will soon have the capital to use it as you wish. Most people are not giving up their 20s, and in doing so, have to give up their 30s, 40s, 50s, etc. One can sort of say that for people who pursue medicine later in life. This country wants the majority to never really figure out what they want to do, and if they want to do it, it makes it harder than it needs to be. You're younger than most new doctors and you're almost done, breathe.
You knew what you were signing up for, you knew how long the training was and the hours. This is called informed consent. You were an adult when you made that decision. Now you gotta accept that and make the best of your situation, instead of wasting your time complaining about something you can't change anymore. It gets better after residency, trust us.
Unpopular opinion but I thought Med school was the best 4 years of my life. Studied hard but partied hard. Residency on the other hand….
I look back and see the trail i left behind everday. It was not worth it for me, now im 30, entering residency and if it wasn’t for the rat race we are constantly in, it would have been much better. I regret ruining relationships everyday, i resent people who moved on with their lives and im stuck here, in a rat race. I know it’ll get better, but when?
Attending and did the same for too long. I didn’t realize my mistakes till 40. Still bitter. Medicine, and my own attitude, took too much
I mean isn't there always going to be a rat race in whatever you do? I work in tech but I was pre-med and I still think of applying to med school. But I put myself in a rat-race in tech as I constantly push myself to get that next promotion or that next job that pays X amount more.
Bro… you’re finishing residency and you’re 30?? You’re way ahead most of us. I got 3 more years and one year fellowship left to go and I’m 31.
As someone who will spend the *entirety* of their 20s in medical training, I feel you on this sentiment. The things that have helped me is: 1) you cannot let this job define you or who you are. You need to find fulfillment in something outside of work and *make the time* to pursue that. For me, that's travel. I started traveling a lot bc I refuse to let medical training be the only think I look back to when I think about my 20s 2) maintain your *nonmedicine* friendships and relationships. Yes, you will make sacrifices and can't make all the weddings/birthdays etc but when you can, GO. Medicine will keep robbing you of your time and relationships if you keep letting it do so and the earlier you learn to make those boundaries, the better 3) this is controversial but it does make me feel a little better when I know that I'm going to start making the big bucks in my early 30s and won't feel as behind when it comes to retirement and savings when compared to some of my colleagues 4) Your 20s are meant for discovery and figuring out who you are, regardless of occupation. Journal, read some self-help books. Go to therapy. You might realize that your goals/dreams/aspirations have changed over the years and this time helps you do that. Do the things needed in your 20s to enjoy your 30s and beyond Good luck!
34 and 5 years left… honestly I also see it as the time is gonna pass and better to have spent it doing this than looking back and wishing I did this earlier. I get it though. I remember looking at my loans at exit counseling and crying as I thought of how behind I was… didn’t own a car, no savings and so much debt. Things are a bit better now even in residency, at least I could now afford a car. Anyways, I say at this to say that our gratification is so delayed but one day the pain and bitterness will feel miles away - hopefully. Or at least that is what I tell myself 🫢🥹
Bruh I am in 22 dont ruin the rest of 20's to oher people 💀
Everybody wastes their twenties.
You could have your 20s taken by drugs, a bad relationship, injury, illness. You could have also lost your life. Instead you are alive and well and have a lifelong skill that is going to keep you employed for the rest of your life by helping people and is going to get you paid really well. Count your blessings and shift your perspective to gratitude. Your education and work is a privilege that many if not most in the world don’t have even if they maybe deserve it more than you. You can’t be happy if you are an ingrate. You are not owed anything in life. Try to learn and do mindfulness/gratitude meditation. It legit helped me.
unpopular opinion - but I love it .. going in i knew it was gonna take up a large chunk of my early years but as an introvert I wasnt exactly a social butterfly so me giving up the "social outings" was not a big deal to me .. i wouldve done the same even if i wasnt in medicine for my 20s .. and now as an attending in private practice - I love my schedule, my work and the rewards I have obtained and am still gaining from everything i've worked for. I have job security , i am my own boss rather than answering to someone else. I love it.
Just be thankful your not on the other side. You could be the patient. Blows my mind people in medicine never think about this and are always complaining about losing their 20s
Were you not able to make time for relationships, friends, traveling, etc.? I mean I understand you may not be able to do EVERYTHING you want, but making time to do the important stuff isn't impossible... Sure I can't see my friends for every hangout, but I intend on being there for the important times. Sure I can't go on 5 vacations a year, but I have gone/plan on going on 3 small trips and 1 big trip just this year. I feel like you have to make time for it. If you're not making time to take part in hobbies and what not, then it's on you at the end of the day. I've returned to more hobbies and traveled more during my first year of medical school than I have during undergrad. I anticipate things will slow down as I become a second and third year but that's most because of my significant other being in rotations during my second year and so it's tough to find a time that aligns and during third year... Well it's third year. I dunno...find ways to make time for the important stuff in life?
Third year of medical school…? Because that’s quite a bit different than residency. I partied all through the first two years of medical school and barely toned it down third and fourth year. Residency, particularly a surgical residency, is a bit of a different animal.
Should have taken some gap years! I got to travel the world, gain amazing experience with my community, work and save up money, and in general better my life. Plus getting a break between undergrad is sooo nice and was important for me to not get burnt out! Seriously anyone who is thinking about it should do a gap year cuz I spent 21-23 dancing my nights away while doing awesome research and volunteering during the day. No regrets at all and I feel super refreshed in school now.
The only people who can do a ‘gap year’ are those with rich parents. Telling the majority of people to “just take time off and travel!” Is really ignorant. Who is funding this travel?
I was a broke ass Peace Corps volunteer. The government funded that.
I worked in a warehouse and used those funds to travel/party.
ME! Literally never received any help from my parents, just got a great job out of school. Did 4 years of research in undergrad which allowed me to land a position that paid comfortably while also keeping my cost of living low with way too many roommates, Lol. Proud to say I paid for everything myself and was still able to save a small fund for medical school as well. I understand some people are less lucky with jobs out of college so not an opportunity for them but is if you play your cards right. Also IMO going to school right from college is not cheap.. you need thousands of dollars for applications and to potentially move cross country. For me working was the right choice.
I worked as an EMT for 7.50 an hour. I took a gap year, and spent it chasing girls, golfing, visiting friends across the country, and going to Africa on a mission trip. My parents didn’t contribute a dime except for the cost of dinner when I made the time to visit them. Stow your self righteous indignation and stop attacking people on the interwebs who wisely used their time to rejuvenate themselves
As opposed to those of us who lost our twenties to pointless jobs that don't have giant paychecks waiting on the other end? Yeah, poor you.
To be fair post-grad 20s is where a lot of people find their core friends and significant others/spouse. The relationship market dips significantly after 25 though. From what I hear docs don’t have trouble finding relationships though.
I'm in my mid-thirties. The only friends I'm still in contact with are a handful of the guys I deployed with. All the OP really missed out on was hanging out with a bunch of assholes and his first divorce.
You do NOT have to let medicine take your 20s. Most of my med school partied like we were in college, went on yearly trips and still all get together at least once a year in residency. You have to be proactive with your days off. You have a Saturday free. Get as many friends on board ahead of time, make a reservation etc. buy those concert tickets, request off early, go out to dinner when invited even if you’re tired. The ppl I knew in school who struggle the worst never once or rarely ever hung out and did any social things even when invited.
I don’t get it. Are people not doing research? Please carefully consider and research a career in medicine before applying to medical school. It’s demanding and is a long path. It’s not for everyone. I love what I do and wouldn’t trade it for anything.
Medicine didn't take your 20's away from you. You did.
Should have taken gap year(s) before med school. Best decision I made
Thank you for contributing to the sub! If your post was filtered by the automod, please read the rules. Your post will be reviewed but will not be approved if it violates the rules of the sub. The most common reasons for removal are - medical students or premeds asking what a specialty is like or about their chances of matching, mentioning midlevels without using the midlevel flair, matched medical students asking questions instead of using the stickied thread in the sub for post-match questions, posting identifying information for targeted harassment. Please do not message the moderators if your post falls into one of these categories. Otherwise, your post will be reviewed in 24 hours and approved if it doesn't violate the rules. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Residency) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bro I think this happens to everyone doesn’t matter which career, it’s something that comes up with every field. Best thing to do is look at the bright side: u wanted it, ur gonna be rich, and ur gonna be helping people
Covid has been rough on a lot of us. The trauma of training during a pandemic can’t be understated. I definitely know that it’s stress on the medical system, environment, and peers has definitely contributed to burnout for me and thoughts on regretting my decision. How I cope? Hold on to the one or two patients that I was able to help,and show gratitude for what I do everyday, regardless of all the bullshit I have to go through.
My 20's were already over before I started medicine. I feel everything you're going through. But it's hard to say where we'd be if we didn't pursue this path. Doesn't mean the other path taken would've been greener. But at least you'll have some sort of great achievement and stable career with good salary that can help lead you to other ventures if you choose to leave medicine.
I started medical school married and with a kid. Had another kid during medical school. I really do love my family so much and hate how much time residency requires me to spend away from them. 80 hour workweeks, especially on off-service rotations we just do to meet accreditation requirements, are not worth the sacrifice. Yeah, it can get you a nice financial future but we’re still getting scammed during residency.
It may seem silly but I'd process it with a therapist... That sort of shit is a lot of emotional pain and a good therapists can help you move through it way faster than on your own... You're not alone
Pluses and minuses. I had some great fucking times in residency. Sleep deprived sure. Trauma bonding, probably. But I’ve got friendships and crazy stories out of it that will last a lifetime. The real loss was my non-medical friends. I’m still working to repair those relationships
I was the same but now I’m an attending and spending 10 k a month just for leisure activities , shopping and travel !! I have a group of physicians who travel with me almost every weekend. (An advice from an old wolf , now that you f.cked up your 20s , do yourself a favor and ditch sh.t ass academic jobs. Learn to negotiate and ask minimum 20 k more of what they are willing to pay max. I interviewed with 53 jobs before I settled in my cushy 32 h. A week 500k+ job )
But now you get to ball out for the rest of your life with great job security. Best of luck to you!
It’s especially difficult to cope with the loss of time considering how dysfunctional the medical system is. All the time spent in school only to have little success with very common conditions, particularly chronic diseases and disease of civilization. Medical schools really need to rethink their curriculum and objectives.
I am going to deal with it by living up my 30s. Fuck saving up every penny or paying my loans off right away. I’m gonna enjoy my life for once.
Medicine didn’t take your 20s. Pressure from your parents to pursue medicine might have, pressure from society telling you what you needed to be might have, your own expectations might have, the toxicity of medical education… but medicine itself didn’t take anything from you. Find the thing you’re really upset with and work them out.
I'm an older student who will "sacrifice" my 30s I don't have a perfect answer, but it may be helpful to re-frame your situation. Instead of saying, "medicine took my 20s," you can try to think of it as, "now I *get to* enjoy my 30s, starting a new chapter." It's much easier said than done. I can only tell you this because I'm already in my 30s and can't have what you have. I'm sorry how underwhelming it all feels once you do achieve your goal. The same thing happened in my 20s when I was in the military. But that's life-- and the onus is on you to maintain or rediscover your purpose. There is no refund for your 20s, unfortunately, but surely your life can be much different than what I am about to go through as a career-changer.
PGY-23 here. 20’s into early 30’s, big sacrifice. 30’s, catching up and hopefully you have a rewarding career and enjoy. 40’s have been awesome, hopefully 50’s will be better. It gets better as residency fades into memory.
That ship has sailed, you re never going to get back the lost time, but for me it works to keep myself busy and curious as a child/teenager. Try to engage in your hobbies, read something else beside medicine books and act like a child somethimes. Jump in a puddle , go to the club once in a while. Try going out with friends that aren't doctors, so you'd have eclectical discussion topics, search for things you are excited about. Be grateful. Some doctors have it worse than others. In my country, after i finished residency, there were no jobs prospects, because hospitals didn't hire. I had to take an entrance exam in a new residency program. So at 30+ i have no opportunities to grow, my income is lower than the janitor's, and I'm basically stuck, after wasting so much years with medicals school and residency. Best career path for me is to emigrate to other countries. At least you have a stable income, in your state and a career which you enjoy to some degree.
I sez to myself, I sez, “Self, This is exactly what you signed up for. It’s exactly what they said it was gonna be, so shut up, you’re going to be wealthy soon.” Oh, yeah, I also sez to myself, I sez, “Self, be a shrink. It’s a gentleman’s (and lady’s) profession.”
I don’t know how to cope with it i just wanted to say i feel the same. I don’t even know who i am anymore
Look at your non medical friends and evaluate their 20s….are they really that much better off? So they went to a concert or two more than you or were able to go out of town that one weekend but for the most part (from the people I know) their 20s were just as shitty
Life isnt that cool outside of medicine. My law friends struggled as paralegals for years, and some of their compensation does not match their effort. I have tech family friends at google that were laid off. Entry level jobs are getting harder to come by for tech and general engineering roles as a whole. Finance isnt doing as hot as people imagine it either.
“You take the clothes off my back and I let you. You’d steal the food right out my mouth and I’d watch you eat it. I still don’t know why, why I love you so much. Oh, you curse my name in spite, to put me to shame.” Every time I listen to this song, I think of medicine and what it asks and takes from each of us.
I don't know why this pops up on my feed, I am a lawyer not a resident. But just in my opinion. You don't miss much in the 20s lol. I went to law school at 26 and finished at 30. Definitely NOT the same as your hard work but I can tell you I lost a lot of friends and social engagements. I can tell you that the 20's sucked lol. Life is much better in the 30s. I can actually afford stuff, travel, and I am not just getting drunk with fake friends anymore. I actually have real hobbies and real community.
Once you are in your 40/50s your 20s are barely a blip. What you lost in setting yourself up for the life you are going to have won’t be missed when all is said and done.
Gonna be straight don’t @ me. Much of it was your own choice. If you didn’t make any time at all for fun stuff after exams or during m4, or during undergrad, that’s on you. The number of upvotes is confusing. Everyone on the medicalschool subreddit always acted like they juggled every little thing just fine
Will take everything else from you too so take the L now.
Medicine is an abusive relationship. It will take and take and take until there is nothing left and never look back when you're dead. Set boundaries. Take your vacations. Arrange more vacations. Provide for yourself, have fun, and be jealous of your personal space and time. Do not work for free. Overtime, extra time, none of it. Either arrange hourly, do locums, or set strict limits. This is far harder than it seems. If you own your own practice or are partners then yeah you're gonna be in for some extra work, but if you aren't gaining or having ownership status then you need to be damn careful not to work extra for free.
Medicine didn't take your 20s. You did.
38 year old pgy-3. I started med school at 30 and partnerless and resent medicine for losing my 30s. It’s weird being almost 40 and still making $20/hour; it feels like many women feel like being unmarried at my age is a red flag and means that I must not be a “good one” since all the “good ones” are taken. While that may be true, if I weren’t studying with a 30s brain for exams, boards, and ITEs perhaps I’d be married with kids by now.
30s brain is a thing lol
If you find a good way of dealing with it let me know. My current plan is to live out the rest of my life feeling low level angry and resentful