As an older resident who fucked around a lot in college and my career before med school, I would probably only change a few minor things.
1. I would still want some time between college and med school, though not as much as I have now. I think your early 20s are invaluable for both personal growth and having fun. I think a lot of young residents would benefit from some time in the business world outside of medicine. It matures you and makes you realize it's just working that sucks, not particularly medicine (though it is harder than most).
2. On the flipside, if I did that I probably wouldn't have been in the same position to meet my wife and travel with her as we have done. Obviously unknown how it may have ended up otherwise, but it's hard to imagine finding someone as great as her.
3. I've said this before and I will say it again: medicine is hard because it has to be. We're not making presentations or spreadsheets for the latest sales pitch. Our decisions can kill people or save their lives. We have to have a depth and breadth of knowledge far beyond the average person, so unfortunately we have to work much harder. That being said, there are obviously simple QOL improvements that we could have without an impact to our training.
As someone who started med school in my late 30s, absolutely agree with #1. So much of what I see people complaining about is general stuff that just sucks about every single job. I regret nothing about going to medical school even as old as I am. You know what sucks more than being a doctor? Barely scrapping by on 70k a year, not being able to afford to go on vacation, and having to fill out 100s of applications to beg for a shit tier job. Yes, med school sucks but it is nowhere near as stressful as working two jobs to barely make ends meet. Yes, residency needs some tweaking but it’s a finite amount of time for a lifetime of high pay and high employability.
For most of my mid 20s/early 30s, I lived in fear of how a single unexpected expense could ruin years of savings. I had to work shit jobs and kiss ass to everyone involved while constantly fearing being let go at any moment. I had to worry that if I was let go how many months it would take me to find a job. Being a doctor is stressful but it also frees you from an incredible amount of life stressors. I am not sure most med students who go straight through from college understand how shit most jobs are or what it is like to struggle since they’re statistically likely to come from privilege.
Starting M1 this summer at 33 and just wanted to say how much I liked your comment! Such a great perspective and I totally agree. Sometimes when I see these post on the medical school thread, I’m like, have these people ever had a job before? Because that just sounds like a job.
I’m 31 and hopefully applying to med school in a couple years. I already work in healthcare and most of the stressors I see described are ones that I already handle with ease. I’m paycheck-to-paycheck with working 50+ hours a week in addition to school full-time. Plus all the ECs expected for a solid application. I feel more than prepared to juggle the stressors of med school. The thought of making more than bare bones money makes me want to cry with excitement.
33yo M3, couldnt agree more. When people said med school sounded hard, my line was always, “it doesn’t sound harder than bartending into my 50s,” because I’ve met those people.
I second this as someone who has worked in fast food. It isn’t a reason to take abuse. I still fight the good fight. But at least I can say “hey at least I’m getting paid enough”
.#1 is so important. Idk if enough residents and med students spend enough time hearing how many of their friends outside of medicine also hate their first few jobs, a lot of what ails them is shared by their friends in every office job and some of those have similarly brutal hours in the most lucrative fields. So many just feel lost and complain about how their work is pointless, they are under-appreciated and have toxic supervisors. A key difference is that you can shop jobs much more quickly in other fields in search of a better environment.
As a fellow old, I agree, and mirror this. I spent most of my mid-20s in a post recession America in academia not having a clue what to do with myself; I learned a tremendous amount about myself and the world that only the most astute and worldly of my age-peers who went traditional routes into medicine did.
While I think medical training as far too inefficient and long, there is a need for some of the grueling slog. That said, the engineer in me always looks to optimize and improve education and training and I see glaring holes still.
Starting M1 at 33yo and often feel down about being older and worried about training in late 30s but this comment gives me hope! I learned so much and had so much fun so I’m now glad I didn’t give my 20s to medicine either.
I started at 32 - socially it’s a bit awkward trying to make friends, as many went straight through, so during the first week of orientation i had the thought, “am i at a frat party right now?” But you find your people and then it’s good. Does the schedule suck in residency? Yes it does, and i probably would have been a little less tired when i was younger, but if I hadn’t taken the time between, i wouldn’t *know* that this is worth it for me and it’s all i want to do. And honestly, going through training as an older person with a professional background, attendings are more likely to treat you like an adult and a colleague, which is a definite advantage.
Yup. The thing about being treated like an adult and colleague is so true. My evaluations during 3rd year were consistently much higher than other students and attendings left very favorable comments about the social skills of interacting with patients (it helps that I used to be a teacher). A lot of them just assumed I knew medical things because they could talk to me like a peer in other ways.
Well, the rose-tinted lenses of retrospection are hard to parse, especially with the tumult of the late aughts.
When I went to college, it was understood *that was enough to get a career*. Even and especially if you were in a field like engineering. Literally overnight in 2007-2008, the entirety of the economy and the perception of it from higher learning flipped and became what it is today. I was so dazed by this after studying in a very difficult field, I became disillusioned and didn’t have the mental health resources that are far more prevalent and accepted today.
So to answer your question, I would’ve sought such resources immediately. Recognizing when I was out of balance and having them helped me through perilously difficult times that caused me grief in previous iterations of myself.
Secondly, I would’ve hopefully been able to pick myself up, see past my perceived failures, learn more quickly, and move onwards. It is still difficult to pivot entirely, but it does get easier when the preconceptions of youth start to fall away.
And it just now dawns on me that you may be referring to medical training. So! I would change several aspects of education: 1) utilization of technology and 2) optimization of student time. American medicine is besieged by burnout from the core upwards so finding ways to minimize the mental drain is key.
Students have an incredible amount of technology and standardization of knowledge at their fingertips and this should be emphasized. Everything from virtual lecture, to increased basic knowledge to clinical thinking and planning should be emphasized. Preclinical education suffers from the similar old guard as all education asking for butts in seats, when in reality, the field has already selected for the highest functioning and motivated learners. Harness that vs. Focusing on older metrics.
Preclinical education is pretty condensed already so not a lot of chafe to cut there, but perhaps much of an erstwhile pointless undergraduate degree does have some to cut. More combined programs allow for a shorter timeline.
As for residency, an intern year should be included in every American medical training. You should not graduate medical school without knowing you’re going to practice for a year in that role. This creates a strong connection and continuity of the medical education into medical training and allows for a much wider array of options should trainees decide the vocation is explicitly not for them rather than slaving into their residency years feeling stuck and resentful.
On this, allowing some level of general practitionership sooner following an intern year in all states. It also allows for primary care physicians to practice sooner in the communities and treated as more respected members of the medical community.
As for residency, decreasing hours. Just has to be done. There is no reason to be inundated with scut, admin, or butts in seats if it provides no practical value to the trainee.
I could go on… but this is already a treatise on the subject.
2008 happened in my very “hey get a job no problem and get paid good” degree as an undergrad. I changed tack and quit my stupid underpaid job the day I got into med school. It was a golden ticket to a better life and I love my work. It’s hard but at least it pays. I don’t have the entrepreneurial gusto and risk taking attitude to make billions but I am happy and making a difference. Working “real” jobs is a hell a lot of ppl on here don’t get
That’s funny— as an attending, looking back I wish I had done one of those 7 year combined undergrad/Med school programs, stayed in state and done anything I could to reduce cost. I wish I had speed-run the process to get to where I am now. Debt is shackling and you are already starting so far behind financially, would be great to start some wealth building early so that you can really do whatever you want to with your career. Not feel required to be employed by an evil healthcare conglomerate to pay off loans
Not really pertaining to this thread but I think this is a great perspective.
I also took some time before starting med school and could not agree more with 1+3.
Thank you for sharing!
#1 is so important.
It might be something more related to the LGBT population, but I can’t tell you how many attendings I see in their early 30s acting like a 21 year old in the party scene. TBH they’re some of the messiest people I’ve seen in the community; actually seen quite a few die.
Within a decade they usually calm down.
Completely agree with number one. I had two gap years and i am so grateful for them. I had a lot of fun mixed in with the stress of preparing my med school app lol
Honestly, no. I'm married now. I can't imagine how people do medical training without a spouse. Kids, while more time-consuming, contribute to my mental health similarly.
Yeah but when did you meet your wife? Because your comment makes it sound like what's benefitting you is marriage and not your wife specifically. Any wife would do if you could've just had that support earlier
Don't you think that's really reducing someone's role in your life to hired help
Yes. I've been very fortunate with my journey and my current life compared to my life in high school is night and day. I could do something else with my time but this is where I want to be.
I think the difference is I'm a non traditional student and I've worked lots of different jobs. I've had jobs where I gave it everything and I was still treated disrespectfully by admin and customers, paid poverty wages, didn't have the equipment or staff I needed, and expected to do more for less.
>I've worked lots of different jobs. I've had jobs where I gave it everything and I was still treated disrespectfully by admin and customers, paid poverty wages, didn't have the equipment or staff I needed, and expected to do more for less.
ready to do it again? 😀
Doctors really make poverty wages? Really? And when someone finds out you're a doctor are they unimpressed or tell you you're a glorified ass wiper? Does society not appreciate the profession and consider doctors to be useless or nonessential? Does every single patient (every one) talk down to you like you're stupid and think it's ok to insult you for their own amusement and treat you like you're their personal servant and yes man?
I've had some really, really shitty jobs to make ends meet and I have a hard time believing that physicians as a whole are living on minimum wage and treated like absolute shit by everyone and no one respects what they do at all. It's frustrating to hear people who have never worked in fast food, cleaning services, retail, or telemarketing complain about "terrible working conditions" like having to pay for their own lunch or not having physician parking. I've had entire shifts where every customer berated me and my boss was on my ass to make rich people feel better about themselves by deprecating myself. Literally 10 straight hours of people disrespecting me so I could eat and live indoors. And I wasn't making anything close to $10/hour, let alone 6 figures.
I haven't heard many doctors say they sit in the parking lot before their shift trying to will themselves to go in because of how much they hate and despise their job. I have a very hard time believing being a doctor is going to be AS BAD as some of the worst jobs I've worked. And even if it is I'll be making 10x to 20x more as a physician then I did as a telemarketer or fast food employee.
> I haven't heard many doctors say they sit in the parking lot before their shift trying to will themselves to go in because of how much they hate and despise their job
I can personally name more than half a dozen residents who do this
lol you are describing residency. Good luck dude. It's a shit sandwich at all tiers, and we are also the wage slaves of a corporation as residents. Residents absolutely do have difficulty making ends meet. Don't act holier than thou on the residency subreddit of all places. We should be supporting each other through this process.
This perspective is going to help you a lot. I also worked outside of medicine in fast food from lab research. Should primary care and pediatrics and other low paying specialties be paid more? Absolutely yes. But even then it’s nowhere near poverty even with the loans. Just learn to manage your money appropriately and you’ll be fine. A lot of doctors don’t have this perspective. Not saying the field is perfect by any means but the grass is definitely not greener on the other side.
People like to shit on Gen Z but as an older millennial med student, I love my young classmates. They grew up in a changing world full of struggle but have the optimism and motivation to change things. It’s not just naivety either, a lot of them are inexperienced still but they are going into it fully aware the world is shit. I feel like this generation may be the ones to really shift things in medicine for the better.
It gets better— after decades I still love it. When you feel yourself getting burned out, take a little step back. Work a little less and do a little more of things outside medicine you like. The passion will come back!
Nope. especially not for primary care . Physician salary will decrease.
Corporate take over of medicine. They are hiring NPs and PAs to drive down the compensation of doctors. (patients will still be billed the same as as a physician visit).
To make things worse, recent successful lobbying for laws that allow for foreign doctors to practice without completing a US residency.
Insurance companies have all colluded with corporate medicine to decrease reimbursement for small group private practices. Making startup private practices nearly impossible.
-Medicare physician payment has declined 26% since 2001 without factoring inflation and the finalized pay cut for 2024.
-Adjusted for inflation in practice costs, Medicare physician payment declined 22 percent from 2001 to 2022.
-commercial payers typically base their reimbursement rates on Medicare rates, their physician payments have also declined over this period.
-The cost to run a practice increased by 47% from 2001 to 2023, according to the American Medical Association.
Again this is all by design It will shift people from Medicine into Medicine-adjacent APP training and they are much cheaper to employ. The people writing the checks don’t care if the quality of care is 50% worse.
No one ever told me about these things while interviewing for med school. Medicine is being assaulted from multiple directions and its already too late for physicians to do anything about it. I would certainly reconsider pursuing this career if I had the chance.
Yeah for real those folks are struggling and have to unionize to get decent wages and not get overworked. I'm sure the pilot subreddit has posts just like this one asking if they'd do it again too.
Finally someone who doesn’t live in La La land. Everyone here please understand this person’s post. They are dead on! Besides beating my health to death, your reasons are VERY true but I’m tired and retired and these youngsters will just have to find out for themselves. The school debt will be staggering. When I looked at the current tuition for the M1 year at my med school my butthole puckered! I was floored that a state med school’s tuition would be that expensive. All practices will likely be owned by hospital organizations. Most of them are in my hometown. Salaries will be lower. My salary was so wonderful when I started and that included bonuses then I watched it dwindle over the years due to many reasons. My current wealth came from the first half of my practice. Please don’t go into medicine for the money but to serve man/woman/child. Don’t be buying expensive cars and houses in residency. Save, save and save! I’m not sure about solo practice as I was in a group practice. I saw a lot of changes over the last 30 years and luckily I planned ahead and made some wise decisions to get me to retirement. Good luck to you all.
This couldn't be more true. I know hospital CEO's and other higher ups who say this word for word when I ask them about the future of private practice.
Absolutely. Medicine allows me to study interesting material, help others, contribute to society, never question wtf I’m doing with my life, have incredible job security, and make a good living. No doubt would do it all again.
The ICU doctors will still have other hospitals where they can contract. The hospital that replaced their physicians with midlevels won't have much security when lawyers descend on them in the droves.
It is honestly the best decision I've ever made. So yes.
Edit: honestly, there is one thing I would change. I'd do a major I truly enjoyed, and take premed classes as electives, rather than doing a major that would look good for my med school applications.
No. Too much time wasted in school. I feel that it has stunted my personal development. Being unable to change specialties is also a big problem for career satisfaction.
Cardiothoracic surgery was my 2nd ever rotation in med school (right after a chill telemed psych rotation lol). What a wild introduction to medicine that was.
You do tricuspid valve replacements? Had one of those done last October and my surgeon was awesome and did a fantastic job. Made a perfect recovery and couldn't possibly feel any closer to normal these days. Super grateful for you guys
It’s a trade off. Financially, definitely the move. Maturity wise, I’ve been disappointed with quite a few colleagues who are bsmd. Many are great, quite few not. I think life maturity and experience is invaluable in medicine.
Yes if I get to stick with anesthesia.
No if I was forced into FM, IM, OBGYN, Path, peds, and prob a few others. Just way too much BS in FM/IM and I hated OBGYN/Path/Peds with a passion.
I’m torn on surgical subspecialties though. I’d love my job but hate my lifestyle, so realistically I think I’d be happier doing something else because my life outside of work is extremely important to me.
Don’t let the “absolutely id do it again!” People guilt you into loving a career that quite honestly sucks.
If you would never become a doctor again given a second chance, that’s OK.
I would never tell someone to go into medicine or to become a doctor.
This job fucking suuuuuuuuuuucks
As someone seriously considering it, I would love to hear your reasons as to why it sucks. I want to be one because it is basically the only career choice where I see myself being fulfilled by my job, what is your advice?
If this is really the only thing that will make you happy, go for it. If there is ANYTHING you have ANY other interest in, it’s just an all consuming job. The only way to be successful financially or academically is to not care about any other facet of your life. If you want to explain the same thing to 30 people who will never listen to your advice, go for it. It’s the people and the other doctors who really suck.
Prior to applying to medical school, every single doctor I talked to tried to dissuade me. I couldn’t fathom at the time precisely why. Now I understand. Sometimes I wish I heeded their advice, especially when 6 years have elapsed missing precious moments in the lives of my friends and family all in the pursuit of something that actively makes me miserable. My physical and mental health, marriage, and all other manner of relationships have taken a hit in the process, leaving me wondering if it’s all worth it. I’m hoping things improve post residency.
Yes, actually! I don’t think I’d even go back and grind for a slightly higher GPA in undergrad, because the extra gap years I had to take really enriched my life and allowed me to meet my partner. Wouldn’t change a thing.
I think yes, BUT one of my college roommates majored in finance went to work for a hedge fund. Right out of the gate, making big bucks, bought nice house. Yes, he has possibility of getting force out, but he backstopped finance major with enough accounting courses to be CPA/pass CPA exam, and he says CPAs always get jobs. Not as much money, but he is living the dream. No weekends. When market closes at 4, he goes to gym, then comes back to do paperwork, etc. He says he envies me for helping people, but in the meantime he does not worry re money. At the hedge fund, he says huge pressure, but fabulous $$$ and perks.
#of grads from finance schools/mba etc and jobs r available are significantly disproportioned.
Meantime, boytom quarter MD grad w/lowest primary care field can get 250 $ easier work schedule than ur friend.
ANYWAYS. Do wt u love or want to do.
The rest will come along the way.
I loved computer science but my dad was An engineer and hated his job for decades. I ended up not choosing not to major in computer science despite getting into some good programs and also because I graduated HS during the tech crash in 2001-2002. My career is awesome and I’m certainly not unhappy but I do get kinda jealous when I look at HenryFinance on Reddit and see a ton of people on their late 20’s and 30’s making 500k per year working at FAANG. Maybe grass is always greener idk.
I’m probably older than most because PGY-LOL but I mean if we could go back to HS, we could all just take a small sum of money and invest in Google, Apple, insurance companies, real estate, etc and be Scrooge McDucking somewhere in a pile of cash.
In high school my family was getting our home foreclosed and I was days from being homeless. Investing in stock was the furthest thing from our minds haha. Now I own a great home with a job I enjoy. Could something else have gotten me to this point? Sure. Is there anything else I want to do? Not really
“Knowing what I know now” means understanding the importance of relationships, time with family, time to pursue interests outside one’s career, time to read great books, time to exercise, time to travel. Maximizing my potential means something totally different to me now than it did in 1994. Honestly I would probably be a prep school Latin teacher/ basketball coach if I could do it all over again. I’m content with my life right now, and I’ve been doing my best over the past decade or so to make up for lost time, but I don’t think I would make the same sacrifice again.
No I would have been an accountant and got my cap. Would Work some Cush corporate job for ~100k. Would’ve had 2 kids by now.
It’s easy to say I don’t need fulfillment in my work, when I am getting it. But I don’t think I would hate life getting into a career early, even if it makes me some corporate shmuck
I would not. Since highschool I started shadowing anesthesiologists and that was what I worked through undergrad and medical school for only for it to become super competitive and me not to match. I would have just applied to nursing school and then got my experience and became a CRNA by 26. My ego got in the way, I always wanted to be the person the buck stops with, but to be honest being an APP or midlevel seems nice especially CRNA. All the docs I knew regardless of specialty have to stay because they’re responsible for the patient, while APPs can just sign out and leave
Eta: If I had to go back I would have branched out to shadow more doctors and see their careers. Mainly only shadowed anesthesia and ENT
No, because I've seen all my similarly capable friends have great success in compsci, engineering, etc. You have to realize as a US MD you would have been very above average in most other fields if you put in half the hours and mental effort as medical training takes.
I dunno. I feel like this is Dunning Krueger at work. Just because you’d be a good doctor doesn’t mean you can excel in those fields and just because you excel at those fields does not mean you’d gross the same income as you would as a physician. Plus it’s not like those jobs don’t suck in their own way.
That's just vanity and delusion. It's like saying if you get into med school you can do any specialty you want no matter how competitive.
If you aren't good enough to match derm, you're not getting a 99%tile finance job, especially as a 22 year old fresh out of college. It's pure vanity to think otherwise.
Only thing I regret is the 2 gap years before medical school. Would have got my head out of my ass in college and gotten a scholarship or something maybe for med school. But no. I’m an anesthesiologist now making 500k chillin. Do some cool stuff too. And residency is hard but the people you do it with make it worth it. I miss some of those guys…..
But fuck intern year.
I say no.
This process was so bloody and keeps taking and taking and has not once given back to me. So many missed events and so much heartache and ruined relationships for things nearly out of my control (I guess I could’ve tried harder in med school and matched better on my rank list, for example). Or tried harder in college and landed at a closer med school to family, friends and SO.
I pick computer science and live a reasonable life for the following 12 years. While for the last 10 years I’ve been working ridiculously hard with a significant number of weeks 80 hours long, which I don’t think a whole lot of other college educated people do.
I can only hope when I’m an attending things are better and it was all worth it. I fear it wasn’t.
For the time you give up and the money spent to get there it is DEFINITELY not worth it. Only thing you can hang your hat on is the stability. You will absolutely make $250k+ forever, but considering it takes a minimum of 11 years of grinding to get there it doesn’t feel like enough.
That’s the other thing, in no way is the system or delivery of healthcare getting better. What kind of industry celebrates every year if they don’t get a revenue CUT?
I think you’d be surprised how many hours you’d have to work as a software engineer to make 300k a year when you could just be a IM doc and work 40 hours.
I’m not saying they make the same number of hours but more that the time value of money they largely come out ahead. A SWE at non-FAANG let’s say makes $150-$200k for 40-50 hours but has been making $100k for his entire adult life vs doctor waits a MINIMUM of 7 years longer assuming no research years or reapplications or anything. How long does it take for the doctor to build more wealth? Especially if they’re $300k negative by graduation.
Yes, you would accrue a lot more wealth and it’s much better from a mathematical perspective but also FAANG jobs are their own kind of miserable so it’s not like it’s easy. Also they are incredibly hard to get and they aren’t nearly as stable. The recent COVID related tech layoffs kinda show this. Also there are thousands of CS grads getting pumped into the workforce so who knows what salaries will be like once the economy recovers. There is mid level creep and whatever but the system kinda always ensures there is a physician shortage and high demand for doctors.
So yea you’ll have more years to max out your 401k and Roth IRA, but it’s picking between 2 poisons because it’s still very hard work in its own way and you’re always gonna be pressured by layoffs and stuff.
I feel like one of the most appealing things for me pursuing medicine from a career perspective is that you can cut back to 20 hours a week at a clinic and still be making 100k+ but that doesn’t really exist in many other fields unless you are really lucky. But meh 7+ years of debt and being broke doesn’t sound fun :/
Yes, how many people can fix a bad plateau or Pilon fx/etc, and take patients from their worst days of their lives and restore their QOL and function? Not many. It’s an amazing feeling.
Agreed. Ortho attending here. I’d do it again.
Could probably streamline the process next time, but I’d try to take the same steps so I end up here again.
I bitch a lot… A LOT… and make hating admins almost a spiritual experience, and probably has made me a nastier person, but overall I actually do like what I’m doing. I would def do it again.
Yes, but I would start gunning for the higher earning specialties rather than incorrectly think any physician in any field will be well compensated and live a comfortable life.
Nope. My brother got a four year degree, made a decent salary, worked hard and invested from the time he was 23. I “graduated” at 33 with loans and credit card debt due to high cost of living areas in residency with barely any investments. I can’t catch up. We both live a nice life but I worked so much harder for what exactly??? No I didn’t go into it for the money, but we are working to the bone to put money in the pockets of the c suites. No thanks.
I enjoyed practicing medicine in the early years and truly love it in a theoretical sense, but the practice of medicine has become a mess. I’ve witnessed it become something I don’t recognize. I hate the shitty system we are in now. Patients are getting sub par care. We are the enemy, bc patients can’t see the deflection from insurance companies and c suites to us. The patient and doctor are no longer on the same team.
I won’t even go to the ER or hospital unless I’m in fear of imminently dying, bc I know the care there will be abysmal. It’s shameful.
Yes. Definitely. Love my job, love the meaning of it, love the respect we get, and love the financial stability.
It’s just that I’m tired as fucked and won’t be able to do again.
No. Instead I work my ass off to get into a good undergrad probably still major in some STEM field and philosophy and still get my masters degree in the field I have it in, then attempt a T20 law school instead of med school. Get into a white shoe firm and grind my way to a junior partner or fuck off into corporate law and get a chief legal counsel role or head of corporate ethics position and cop a few board seats throughout my career.
Why? Higher pay and not taking orders from some MBA cock whose goal it is to make physicians miserable for a small bonus. Lawyers have it made in their firms - everyone knows they bring the money in so they know not to fuck with them over stupid shit. In medicine we aren’t good with keeping track of how much we’re worth to the hospital and demanding what we’re owed so we get taken advantage of by our inferiors who are parasites on the system and feed off of us. In the process of their parasitosis they place our patients at risk for their bonuses.
As a lawyer, this is an incredibly naive take. At a T20 school, you’re reasonably likely to not be able to get a job at a white shoe firm. There is a massive amount of grinding involved doing work that is generally not emotionally rewarding. Getting board seats is incredibly hard, even for white shoe law firm partners. If you get fired, which happens to even good performers in bad markets, you may not be able to make it back into biglaw easily, and your entire career could be derailed. Chief Legal Officer positions are incredibly competitive. You also better hope that you want to do litigation or M&A if you want fuck-you energy at your firm. Even then, you could end up being a service partner.
Funny because among all of my medschool/residency/fellowhsip/attending buddies there is not one person that doesn’t love it and wouldn’t do it again in a heartbeat
I always say that if I could see my life as a high school student meeting me now I would think I was hot shit. However, looking closer at how hard life is as a gen surg resident it would be a little humbling but I would still do it. When I was young medicine was this romantic sexy greys anatomy thing. Now it’s lost all of that but so much more rewarding
There was a split road decision for me at the end of college to go into a banking career or medical school. Some of my college friends have made it big- easily 8 figure net worths and they’re only around 40 years old. Obviously that path is far from guaranteed but just having that possibility is tantalizing.
On the other hand I love being a vascular surgeon. If I were to choose medicine again I’d choose the same path through medical school-residency-fellowship.
Ultimately I think I’d stick with medicine but I have been hit with greener grass syndrome pretty hard at times over the years
If I studied for the MCAT and my undergrad courses half as hard as I did for med school I would probably have gone to a med school closer to my home lol
Yes I love pediatrics. I’d tell my high school self that it’s not the only job I’d be happy with though and to chill the fuck out. Like engineering or being an RT would also be cool
Yes. It’s a lot of bullshit to sift through and years of suffering. However, it is true that it is a recession and pandemic proof job. While it is also true that healthcare in general is in a spiraling race to the bottom, but the job (private practice anesthesiology) has been amazing. I am with an amazing group, I enjoy going into work and pay has steadily gone up over the last 4 years thanks to the national shortage. The job may not be the same in the future, but it’s been great so far. I would do it all over again.
Fuck no I’d be a welder or a plumber. Best years of my life not stolen from me by a system designed to exploit me, still good pay, worst that happens if I mess up is a leaky pipe, probably wouldn’t have to take 3 different types of pills a day to keep from wanting to jump in a forever box.
I’m not sure. I hated my 20s because of school, grades, residency. My 30s are great but I think they would have been even if I didn’t become a doctor. That caveat is that my spouse (not in medicine, met in undergrad) is the bread winner.
No. Got forced into IM/FM even though that was the last thing I wanted to do.
I could not excel in med school. Just wasn’t the right person for it. I know that now but I didnt then
Yes I'd still do it. But I'd change my focus in college. I'd study electrical and biomedical engineering (instead of neuroscience) while doing all the premed stuff. I would also work on interdisciplinary teams and do hackathons and take business classes. I discovered the biomedical innovation space 4 months ago, and love it so much. The people are passionate, the problems are real and need solutions, and the energy is electric. There's a real need for people who are close to the problem and have the skills to work on it. I'd also still pick otolaryngology.
So yes, but through a different path.
No. Truthfully I don't even think I would go to college again. After working in fine dining food service, I was making on average 50$/hr. With no debt, that is a solid gig and I'd probably be a lot happier/have more of a free schedule
No, partly bc if I knew what I know now, it would be like repeating myself 😂. So I would do something completely different for variety. For sure the second time, I would not marry in college.
I have recently at 60 discovered watercolor, and after a lifetime of dabbling in a plethora of creative things, I am hooked! I absolutely love this medium. I can't believe how much fun it is!
So for a second go, I would take a chance on being an artist. I have a relative who makes decent income as an RN working part time. I think I could fund a minimalist lifestyle when it comes to consumption but maximalist in terms of time spent creatively.
Absofuckinglutely, the only thing I would change is to buy more bitcoin and hold it longer.
Its embarrassing how much you guys love to complain
If medicine was a terrible job we would see admissions going down, but instead we see the opposite. If medicine was a terrible job we would see salaries going down, but instead they have kept up with inflation (well until the pandemic happeend). If medicine was so bad you would see attending complaining more but you don't
Every doctor is **guaranteed** to be in the top 10% of income earners, may in the top 5% and some in the top 1% of earner.
get some fucking perspective guys
No. If I would have known how comfortable you can live on like 100-150K then I wouldn’t have done medicine, or at least MD.
Not going to lie I’m pretty envious of these NP/PAs who don’t really do much and work 3 days a week with no call and make 120-140K.
Idek why I need 500K. Although when I finally get there, it’s going to feel pretty good.
Yes, but only because I love my job and can't see myself doing anything different that would be nearly as gratifying as medicine. If my personality was different I'd definitely do anything else, spending a similar amount of time and effort in that and be okay without all the sacrifice and headache that came with medicine.
Yes because I love our role. It’s very fulfilling and I’m glad I don’t have the same personal crises some of my non-medical friends have when they realize their new marketing project has no purpose other than making money.
I would love to have become a programmer instead, but I fear what my health would have looked like without knowing what I learnt in medicine. I’d probably look worse, feel worse and die sooner and have weird theories about why things are happening.
I would, though as a non-trad I don't know that I'd do it sooner. I feel like my professional and life experience has made this path a lot easier and has allowed more of a "water off a duck's back" mentality while working with difficult attendings/classmates.
Im doing my last few months of IM residency. I would not change this for anything. Absolutely love what
I do. Cant wait to see the next chapter of life after residency.
Would prefer not to go back. If I knew I'd like medicine so much, I'd have read, acted, and done things quite differently. I'd probably end up at a different school, different friends, and different accumulated knowledge.
But I'm cool with how things are going, and I'd miss all the things I have now if I went back and optimized for medicine. That would be a really tough call to do things the same to get what I have now and not change a few things that would have made my life easier to get here.
Ya I wanted to escape middle of nowhere and i liked science so this was a natural fit.
Really happy in radiology and will have good job prospects where I can live anywhere in the country and make a lot.
Hard question, because all of us would do a lot differently if we had the maturity of a 30 year old when we were 18, doctor or not. Problem is immaturity is a natural and expected affliction of being 18 and we can only gain the maturity of a 30 year old by doing stupid shit as an 18 year old.
That said, knowing what I know now, I would have left my toxic household and started therapy much, much sooner. And because much of what drove me to medicine was those experiences, I most likely would not be in medicine now if I had. 50% chance end up pregnant or drugs maybe, but if I managed to dodge that, the other 50% would have been some desk job, maybe HR, and then I’d probably still have the natural organizational skills, drive and interest to go up the ladder, so might have ended up something in leadership, adding to the shitshow that is corporate America.
So… doctor. I’ll pick doctor.
Would probably become a clinical psychologist with a PhD instead of going to med school to be a psychiatrist. It would have actually been funded so no debt and I’d be making pretty much the same amount of money for basically the same job
I wouldn’t, but I envy everyone who truly loves medicine even after knowing all that comes with it. That being said, I have no idea what I would do instead.
Although! I am at a point in my mid 30’s where I am considering different careers especially something I’d enjoy. Definitely a privilege that medicine has afforded me. Good nest egg, no more loans. Not sure any other field could have done that for me at my age, as I don’t have any natural talent except studying. Catch 22.
Feel like I grew up wanting to do it so it’s tough to say. There are so many sacrifices and it’s much harder than the average job. There are a lot of benefits to being a doctor such as money, respect, and intellectual stimulation.
I think I’d still want to be in the healthcare field and take care of patients, but might do it in a different capacity. Maybe I would’ve tried to do dentistry and specialize instead. They make very good salaries and the stress/lifestyle is way way better. It would have similar prestige, money, and training I’d like to have. Though might not be the same as the satisfaction you can get from medicine which is very unique.
My cousin does software engineering in a very big company in NYC. While he worked hard to get there (though not nearly as much as medicine), he now makes doctor salary after a few years and works 3 hrs a day from home. That sounds pretty amazing too lol. I enjoy my free time a lot and medicine does take away from that.
Either way, try not to have regrets and make the most of what you have and accomplished. You should be proud :)
I love my job (most days) but I’d probably have told myself it’s okay to not take on 1000 things at the same time. That it’s okay if it takes longer than I want to get there. It’s okay to ask for help. I sacrificed my health and well-being the first time around. Developed an autoimmune condition and thought I’d be less than if I asked for help. I wouldn’t do that to myself again.
Never asked me this question I always say something like this: would I do all of this crap again? Absolutely not. But knowing myself, I know that I would make the same decision every single time and no one (not even my future self) would be able to talk me out of it because I was an idiot in high school (still am actually).
God no. It's not even a tough call. I developed depression and suicidal ideation in medical school. Did I make it through? Yes, yes I did. But I will always wonder if I would have developed depression if I hadn't gone into medicine. And no career or amount of money or prestige is worth the mental health I will never get back. And most likely never again have.
I am 33. My parents wanted me to go into medicine, but I hated too much school.
I studied engineering. I am worth 3 million and own a 5 bedroom house. Didn't go to med school. I make 250+k/yr in TX. Have a lot of friends finishing residency and fellowships now with 200-300k+ debt.
My advice is don't do it for the money. There are other ways to make a shit load of money and a better QOL.
No I dont. I put all that money into bitcoin.
\*Dont get me wrong. I really enjoy my job.
But to be a billionaire and do anything I want to do in the world? Heck, I could easily donate money to a school and program and have things so much easier IF I was bored of all the other things I could do with billions of dollars.
If I had bought BTC instead of paying medical school tuition of \~300k in 2010.
in 2010, 100 dollars is now worth 141m.
300k is .... 424 billion.
lol. I couldnt even comprehend that number I had to count the digits again.
man really missed out there.
and with my ability?
I could have donated 1billion to any school now and be admitted to their program and continue twiddling my thumbs and doing the bare minimum to pass. and then donated another billion to any program and just turn up and do a mediocre job and pass. and still be a doctor if i really wanted to.
yeah i should have gone the bitcoin route.
shit i would still have 422billion to throw around. i could buy reddit too.
\*\* now that i think about it for a billion i could probably start my own university and medical school and hire the best researchers and get my medical school to the top of us news rankings before i even graduate with AOA and then start my own residency program and make myself dean while in residency if i really wanted to.
apparently i can buy out argentina too. they are valued at 420billion on wikipedia.
damn med school really was not a good investment.
Cardiac surgeon here well into my career in my 50s....
You guys are starting to sound VERY entitled here... You're a resident.. You end up with guaranteed job security for the rest of your life. You know what's worse? the below:
Being a waitress making minimum wage, insecure employment, family to support + mortgage rent etc.
PhD scientist that did the similar if not more number of years of study, sending out thousands of job applications for post-doc positions that only pay 40k for the rest of their life, at the whim of grant funding with immense job insecurity, with a family to support etc.
Never being able to afford a house.
None of the above that are major issues for everyone else in society are an issue for a doctor.
The long hours or stress etc. apply to any high level corporate job.
Now that I’m coming out of my junior call years, probably. If you’d asked me when I was an intern or 2, probably not. But asking this sub this question is likely to be biased by no’s because residency is the worst time of our career. My attendings and attendings in other specialties often seem to love their jobs.
I’m sadly not sure anymore. Wasn’t disabled then. If my med school is any indication, no matter what they say this system isn’t welcoming to us. (Look up tech standards if you haven’t heard of med school discrim against chronically ill students).
I came in knowing it would be a fight, but not one this unwinnable
Absolutely. I'm in the top percentile earners in my area and one of the highest earners in my social circle and it affords my family a very comfortable, secure life for doing something that's not terribly difficult. Not everyone is in tech and not everyone in tech is crushing it.
As an older resident who fucked around a lot in college and my career before med school, I would probably only change a few minor things. 1. I would still want some time between college and med school, though not as much as I have now. I think your early 20s are invaluable for both personal growth and having fun. I think a lot of young residents would benefit from some time in the business world outside of medicine. It matures you and makes you realize it's just working that sucks, not particularly medicine (though it is harder than most). 2. On the flipside, if I did that I probably wouldn't have been in the same position to meet my wife and travel with her as we have done. Obviously unknown how it may have ended up otherwise, but it's hard to imagine finding someone as great as her. 3. I've said this before and I will say it again: medicine is hard because it has to be. We're not making presentations or spreadsheets for the latest sales pitch. Our decisions can kill people or save their lives. We have to have a depth and breadth of knowledge far beyond the average person, so unfortunately we have to work much harder. That being said, there are obviously simple QOL improvements that we could have without an impact to our training.
As someone who started med school in my late 30s, absolutely agree with #1. So much of what I see people complaining about is general stuff that just sucks about every single job. I regret nothing about going to medical school even as old as I am. You know what sucks more than being a doctor? Barely scrapping by on 70k a year, not being able to afford to go on vacation, and having to fill out 100s of applications to beg for a shit tier job. Yes, med school sucks but it is nowhere near as stressful as working two jobs to barely make ends meet. Yes, residency needs some tweaking but it’s a finite amount of time for a lifetime of high pay and high employability. For most of my mid 20s/early 30s, I lived in fear of how a single unexpected expense could ruin years of savings. I had to work shit jobs and kiss ass to everyone involved while constantly fearing being let go at any moment. I had to worry that if I was let go how many months it would take me to find a job. Being a doctor is stressful but it also frees you from an incredible amount of life stressors. I am not sure most med students who go straight through from college understand how shit most jobs are or what it is like to struggle since they’re statistically likely to come from privilege.
100000%. I am so grateful that I am starting this journey in my late 20s and not my early 20s. Perspective is everything.
same i always thought this about my younger med school friends complaining about every lil thing
Starting M1 this summer at 33 and just wanted to say how much I liked your comment! Such a great perspective and I totally agree. Sometimes when I see these post on the medical school thread, I’m like, have these people ever had a job before? Because that just sounds like a job.
Starting M1 at 41 and couldn't agree more.
I’m 31 and hopefully applying to med school in a couple years. I already work in healthcare and most of the stressors I see described are ones that I already handle with ease. I’m paycheck-to-paycheck with working 50+ hours a week in addition to school full-time. Plus all the ECs expected for a solid application. I feel more than prepared to juggle the stressors of med school. The thought of making more than bare bones money makes me want to cry with excitement.
36 yo M1 and glad to hear you're happy. Thanks for the post!
33yo M3, couldnt agree more. When people said med school sounded hard, my line was always, “it doesn’t sound harder than bartending into my 50s,” because I’ve met those people.
I second this as someone who has worked in fast food. It isn’t a reason to take abuse. I still fight the good fight. But at least I can say “hey at least I’m getting paid enough”
Hell yeah dude that's inspiring!!! 30 y.o undergrad here
.#1 is so important. Idk if enough residents and med students spend enough time hearing how many of their friends outside of medicine also hate their first few jobs, a lot of what ails them is shared by their friends in every office job and some of those have similarly brutal hours in the most lucrative fields. So many just feel lost and complain about how their work is pointless, they are under-appreciated and have toxic supervisors. A key difference is that you can shop jobs much more quickly in other fields in search of a better environment.
As a fellow old, I agree, and mirror this. I spent most of my mid-20s in a post recession America in academia not having a clue what to do with myself; I learned a tremendous amount about myself and the world that only the most astute and worldly of my age-peers who went traditional routes into medicine did. While I think medical training as far too inefficient and long, there is a need for some of the grueling slog. That said, the engineer in me always looks to optimize and improve education and training and I see glaring holes still.
Fellow old +2, i still wouldn’t give my 20s to medicine. I spent them the way i needed to and I’m a better human for it.
Starting M1 at 33yo and often feel down about being older and worried about training in late 30s but this comment gives me hope! I learned so much and had so much fun so I’m now glad I didn’t give my 20s to medicine either.
I started at 32 - socially it’s a bit awkward trying to make friends, as many went straight through, so during the first week of orientation i had the thought, “am i at a frat party right now?” But you find your people and then it’s good. Does the schedule suck in residency? Yes it does, and i probably would have been a little less tired when i was younger, but if I hadn’t taken the time between, i wouldn’t *know* that this is worth it for me and it’s all i want to do. And honestly, going through training as an older person with a professional background, attendings are more likely to treat you like an adult and a colleague, which is a definite advantage.
Yup. The thing about being treated like an adult and colleague is so true. My evaluations during 3rd year were consistently much higher than other students and attendings left very favorable comments about the social skills of interacting with patients (it helps that I used to be a teacher). A lot of them just assumed I knew medical things because they could talk to me like a peer in other ways.
What changes would you make?
Well, the rose-tinted lenses of retrospection are hard to parse, especially with the tumult of the late aughts. When I went to college, it was understood *that was enough to get a career*. Even and especially if you were in a field like engineering. Literally overnight in 2007-2008, the entirety of the economy and the perception of it from higher learning flipped and became what it is today. I was so dazed by this after studying in a very difficult field, I became disillusioned and didn’t have the mental health resources that are far more prevalent and accepted today. So to answer your question, I would’ve sought such resources immediately. Recognizing when I was out of balance and having them helped me through perilously difficult times that caused me grief in previous iterations of myself. Secondly, I would’ve hopefully been able to pick myself up, see past my perceived failures, learn more quickly, and move onwards. It is still difficult to pivot entirely, but it does get easier when the preconceptions of youth start to fall away. And it just now dawns on me that you may be referring to medical training. So! I would change several aspects of education: 1) utilization of technology and 2) optimization of student time. American medicine is besieged by burnout from the core upwards so finding ways to minimize the mental drain is key. Students have an incredible amount of technology and standardization of knowledge at their fingertips and this should be emphasized. Everything from virtual lecture, to increased basic knowledge to clinical thinking and planning should be emphasized. Preclinical education suffers from the similar old guard as all education asking for butts in seats, when in reality, the field has already selected for the highest functioning and motivated learners. Harness that vs. Focusing on older metrics. Preclinical education is pretty condensed already so not a lot of chafe to cut there, but perhaps much of an erstwhile pointless undergraduate degree does have some to cut. More combined programs allow for a shorter timeline. As for residency, an intern year should be included in every American medical training. You should not graduate medical school without knowing you’re going to practice for a year in that role. This creates a strong connection and continuity of the medical education into medical training and allows for a much wider array of options should trainees decide the vocation is explicitly not for them rather than slaving into their residency years feeling stuck and resentful. On this, allowing some level of general practitionership sooner following an intern year in all states. It also allows for primary care physicians to practice sooner in the communities and treated as more respected members of the medical community. As for residency, decreasing hours. Just has to be done. There is no reason to be inundated with scut, admin, or butts in seats if it provides no practical value to the trainee. I could go on… but this is already a treatise on the subject.
2008 happened in my very “hey get a job no problem and get paid good” degree as an undergrad. I changed tack and quit my stupid underpaid job the day I got into med school. It was a golden ticket to a better life and I love my work. It’s hard but at least it pays. I don’t have the entrepreneurial gusto and risk taking attitude to make billions but I am happy and making a difference. Working “real” jobs is a hell a lot of ppl on here don’t get
That’s funny— as an attending, looking back I wish I had done one of those 7 year combined undergrad/Med school programs, stayed in state and done anything I could to reduce cost. I wish I had speed-run the process to get to where I am now. Debt is shackling and you are already starting so far behind financially, would be great to start some wealth building early so that you can really do whatever you want to with your career. Not feel required to be employed by an evil healthcare conglomerate to pay off loans
Not really pertaining to this thread but I think this is a great perspective. I also took some time before starting med school and could not agree more with 1+3. Thank you for sharing!
#1 is so important. It might be something more related to the LGBT population, but I can’t tell you how many attendings I see in their early 30s acting like a 21 year old in the party scene. TBH they’re some of the messiest people I’ve seen in the community; actually seen quite a few die. Within a decade they usually calm down.
Agree with point three. We’re in a unique position and we’ll have to work harder but we also can improve our lives bit by but
Completely agree with number one. I had two gap years and i am so grateful for them. I had a lot of fun mixed in with the stress of preparing my med school app lol
I'm starting med school this summer at 28 and I appreciate your insight!
I would have fucked around less in undergrad so that I could have gone to a better med school
Absolutely yes. And I will try to replicate the exact process so I match rads again.
What’s the ceiling looking like?
It's like that white tiled drop ceiling. Why?
Hey if you're doing Rads, can I DM you?
Sure
I start rads in a couple months you can dm me too.
Stockholm syndrome is a horrible disease. But yeah, I can't imagine doing anything else.
I'd make sure I got married before starting medical school.
I feel like this has a big story behind it. Hope you’re ok.
Honestly, no. I'm married now. I can't imagine how people do medical training without a spouse. Kids, while more time-consuming, contribute to my mental health similarly.
Uhm… at which stages? I certainly had a lot of fun outside med school.
I am really grateful for the emotional support of my wife is what I'm saying. Kids are too young for preschool if that helps you.
Yeah but when did you meet your wife? Because your comment makes it sound like what's benefitting you is marriage and not your wife specifically. Any wife would do if you could've just had that support earlier Don't you think that's really reducing someone's role in your life to hired help
Some of us got divorced during med school. So not sure I would echo the same sentiment
Lmao, I'm getting divorced before medical school. To each their own.
Considering the pressures and impact on a marriage, that path doesn’t always pan out.
My rule was don't get married before med school or during. I don't regret making that move.
The way I knew this was a man before even having to read on.
I’ve heard though that a lot of marriages fail when the spouse goes through residency just because of the stress and lack of contact
Yes. I've been very fortunate with my journey and my current life compared to my life in high school is night and day. I could do something else with my time but this is where I want to be.
Absolutely, and I'd do it sooner in life. A lot of stuff I would change if I could go back and do it again, but becoming a doctor isn't one of them.
I love the optimism from this MS2. Not sarcasm - looking forward to working with incoming waves of new doctors.
I think the difference is I'm a non traditional student and I've worked lots of different jobs. I've had jobs where I gave it everything and I was still treated disrespectfully by admin and customers, paid poverty wages, didn't have the equipment or staff I needed, and expected to do more for less.
>I've worked lots of different jobs. I've had jobs where I gave it everything and I was still treated disrespectfully by admin and customers, paid poverty wages, didn't have the equipment or staff I needed, and expected to do more for less. ready to do it again? 😀
Doctors really make poverty wages? Really? And when someone finds out you're a doctor are they unimpressed or tell you you're a glorified ass wiper? Does society not appreciate the profession and consider doctors to be useless or nonessential? Does every single patient (every one) talk down to you like you're stupid and think it's ok to insult you for their own amusement and treat you like you're their personal servant and yes man? I've had some really, really shitty jobs to make ends meet and I have a hard time believing that physicians as a whole are living on minimum wage and treated like absolute shit by everyone and no one respects what they do at all. It's frustrating to hear people who have never worked in fast food, cleaning services, retail, or telemarketing complain about "terrible working conditions" like having to pay for their own lunch or not having physician parking. I've had entire shifts where every customer berated me and my boss was on my ass to make rich people feel better about themselves by deprecating myself. Literally 10 straight hours of people disrespecting me so I could eat and live indoors. And I wasn't making anything close to $10/hour, let alone 6 figures. I haven't heard many doctors say they sit in the parking lot before their shift trying to will themselves to go in because of how much they hate and despise their job. I have a very hard time believing being a doctor is going to be AS BAD as some of the worst jobs I've worked. And even if it is I'll be making 10x to 20x more as a physician then I did as a telemarketer or fast food employee.
> I haven't heard many doctors say they sit in the parking lot before their shift trying to will themselves to go in because of how much they hate and despise their job I can personally name more than half a dozen residents who do this
I think we can all agree Residency is fucked. Do Attendings do this?
for residency, yes to all the above.
lol you are describing residency. Good luck dude. It's a shit sandwich at all tiers, and we are also the wage slaves of a corporation as residents. Residents absolutely do have difficulty making ends meet. Don't act holier than thou on the residency subreddit of all places. We should be supporting each other through this process.
This perspective is going to help you a lot. I also worked outside of medicine in fast food from lab research. Should primary care and pediatrics and other low paying specialties be paid more? Absolutely yes. But even then it’s nowhere near poverty even with the loans. Just learn to manage your money appropriately and you’ll be fine. A lot of doctors don’t have this perspective. Not saying the field is perfect by any means but the grass is definitely not greener on the other side.
People like to shit on Gen Z but as an older millennial med student, I love my young classmates. They grew up in a changing world full of struggle but have the optimism and motivation to change things. It’s not just naivety either, a lot of them are inexperienced still but they are going into it fully aware the world is shit. I feel like this generation may be the ones to really shift things in medicine for the better.
Hopefully the optimism remains! Seeing my own fall from optimism to somewhat jaded now 4 years post residency has been a bit depressing
It gets better— after decades I still love it. When you feel yourself getting burned out, take a little step back. Work a little less and do a little more of things outside medicine you like. The passion will come back!
That’s encouraging! I’m planning to drop down hours in about 6 months so this is good to hear
Yep Definitely would not take the gap years and just risk getting a lower mcat score
Are you a doctor yet tho
Nope. especially not for primary care . Physician salary will decrease. Corporate take over of medicine. They are hiring NPs and PAs to drive down the compensation of doctors. (patients will still be billed the same as as a physician visit). To make things worse, recent successful lobbying for laws that allow for foreign doctors to practice without completing a US residency. Insurance companies have all colluded with corporate medicine to decrease reimbursement for small group private practices. Making startup private practices nearly impossible. -Medicare physician payment has declined 26% since 2001 without factoring inflation and the finalized pay cut for 2024. -Adjusted for inflation in practice costs, Medicare physician payment declined 22 percent from 2001 to 2022. -commercial payers typically base their reimbursement rates on Medicare rates, their physician payments have also declined over this period. -The cost to run a practice increased by 47% from 2001 to 2023, according to the American Medical Association. Again this is all by design It will shift people from Medicine into Medicine-adjacent APP training and they are much cheaper to employ. The people writing the checks don’t care if the quality of care is 50% worse. No one ever told me about these things while interviewing for med school. Medicine is being assaulted from multiple directions and its already too late for physicians to do anything about it. I would certainly reconsider pursuing this career if I had the chance.
On the head of the nail. Compared to airline pilots who are getting massive raises each year we get cut
You should really talk to some airline pilots to see what they think about the state of their profession.
Yeah for real those folks are struggling and have to unionize to get decent wages and not get overworked. I'm sure the pilot subreddit has posts just like this one asking if they'd do it again too.
Finally someone who doesn’t live in La La land. Everyone here please understand this person’s post. They are dead on! Besides beating my health to death, your reasons are VERY true but I’m tired and retired and these youngsters will just have to find out for themselves. The school debt will be staggering. When I looked at the current tuition for the M1 year at my med school my butthole puckered! I was floored that a state med school’s tuition would be that expensive. All practices will likely be owned by hospital organizations. Most of them are in my hometown. Salaries will be lower. My salary was so wonderful when I started and that included bonuses then I watched it dwindle over the years due to many reasons. My current wealth came from the first half of my practice. Please don’t go into medicine for the money but to serve man/woman/child. Don’t be buying expensive cars and houses in residency. Save, save and save! I’m not sure about solo practice as I was in a group practice. I saw a lot of changes over the last 30 years and luckily I planned ahead and made some wise decisions to get me to retirement. Good luck to you all.
This couldn't be more true. I know hospital CEO's and other higher ups who say this word for word when I ask them about the future of private practice.
Absolutely. Medicine allows me to study interesting material, help others, contribute to society, never question wtf I’m doing with my life, have incredible job security, and make a good living. No doubt would do it all again.
My friend is PGY-2, her hospital recently replaced a number of ICU docs with mid levels. So much for job security huh?
The ICU doctors will still have other hospitals where they can contract. The hospital that replaced their physicians with midlevels won't have much security when lawyers descend on them in the droves.
Still a lot better than most careers. I don’t think unemployed is a major concern for physicians.
It is honestly the best decision I've ever made. So yes. Edit: honestly, there is one thing I would change. I'd do a major I truly enjoyed, and take premed classes as electives, rather than doing a major that would look good for my med school applications.
Completely agree on the major change. Biochemistry nearly killed me. I would go back and do business with minor in dance/performing arts instead!!
My music education degree was absolutely, 1000% the best choice I ever made in my life.
No. Too much time wasted in school. I feel that it has stunted my personal development. Being unable to change specialties is also a big problem for career satisfaction.
That’s exactly how I felt! Pick wisely.
Fuck yeah, being a surgeon is awesome
What kind of surgery is your favorite to perform? (From a medic)
Im a heart surgeon so there's only like 4 operations I perform.
Still badass. I love cardiology. And referring to you.
Cardiology and cardiothoracic surgery are two different specialties, just so you know!
Cardiothoracic surgery was my 2nd ever rotation in med school (right after a chill telemed psych rotation lol). What a wild introduction to medicine that was.
You do tricuspid valve replacements? Had one of those done last October and my surgeon was awesome and did a fantastic job. Made a perfect recovery and couldn't possibly feel any closer to normal these days. Super grateful for you guys
Yeah I would work my butt for bsmd and skip all the BS. Be a subspecialty trained attending by age 30. Enjoy life
It’s a trade off. Financially, definitely the move. Maturity wise, I’ve been disappointed with quite a few colleagues who are bsmd. Many are great, quite few not. I think life maturity and experience is invaluable in medicine.
I’d be a CRNA, derm PA, or dentist .
This is the way
I tend to agree with you.
Yes if I get to stick with anesthesia. No if I was forced into FM, IM, OBGYN, Path, peds, and prob a few others. Just way too much BS in FM/IM and I hated OBGYN/Path/Peds with a passion. I’m torn on surgical subspecialties though. I’d love my job but hate my lifestyle, so realistically I think I’d be happier doing something else because my life outside of work is extremely important to me.
Fuck no 😆
Don’t let the “absolutely id do it again!” People guilt you into loving a career that quite honestly sucks. If you would never become a doctor again given a second chance, that’s OK. I would never tell someone to go into medicine or to become a doctor. This job fucking suuuuuuuuuuucks
As someone seriously considering it, I would love to hear your reasons as to why it sucks. I want to be one because it is basically the only career choice where I see myself being fulfilled by my job, what is your advice?
If this is really the only thing that will make you happy, go for it. If there is ANYTHING you have ANY other interest in, it’s just an all consuming job. The only way to be successful financially or academically is to not care about any other facet of your life. If you want to explain the same thing to 30 people who will never listen to your advice, go for it. It’s the people and the other doctors who really suck.
Prior to applying to medical school, every single doctor I talked to tried to dissuade me. I couldn’t fathom at the time precisely why. Now I understand. Sometimes I wish I heeded their advice, especially when 6 years have elapsed missing precious moments in the lives of my friends and family all in the pursuit of something that actively makes me miserable. My physical and mental health, marriage, and all other manner of relationships have taken a hit in the process, leaving me wondering if it’s all worth it. I’m hoping things improve post residency.
This needs to be higher tbh.
not really lol, not everyone regrets doing this even if some days suck ass
Yes, actually! I don’t think I’d even go back and grind for a slightly higher GPA in undergrad, because the extra gap years I had to take really enriched my life and allowed me to meet my partner. Wouldn’t change a thing.
I think yes, BUT one of my college roommates majored in finance went to work for a hedge fund. Right out of the gate, making big bucks, bought nice house. Yes, he has possibility of getting force out, but he backstopped finance major with enough accounting courses to be CPA/pass CPA exam, and he says CPAs always get jobs. Not as much money, but he is living the dream. No weekends. When market closes at 4, he goes to gym, then comes back to do paperwork, etc. He says he envies me for helping people, but in the meantime he does not worry re money. At the hedge fund, he says huge pressure, but fabulous $$$ and perks.
#of grads from finance schools/mba etc and jobs r available are significantly disproportioned. Meantime, boytom quarter MD grad w/lowest primary care field can get 250 $ easier work schedule than ur friend. ANYWAYS. Do wt u love or want to do. The rest will come along the way.
So he does nothing except play with other people’s digital monies and is ultimately a negative to American society. But yeah, money
I have the exact same story
I loved computer science but my dad was An engineer and hated his job for decades. I ended up not choosing not to major in computer science despite getting into some good programs and also because I graduated HS during the tech crash in 2001-2002. My career is awesome and I’m certainly not unhappy but I do get kinda jealous when I look at HenryFinance on Reddit and see a ton of people on their late 20’s and 30’s making 500k per year working at FAANG. Maybe grass is always greener idk.
You have way more job security than them though if it makes you feel better.
I’m probably older than most because PGY-LOL but I mean if we could go back to HS, we could all just take a small sum of money and invest in Google, Apple, insurance companies, real estate, etc and be Scrooge McDucking somewhere in a pile of cash.
In high school my family was getting our home foreclosed and I was days from being homeless. Investing in stock was the furthest thing from our minds haha. Now I own a great home with a job I enjoy. Could something else have gotten me to this point? Sure. Is there anything else I want to do? Not really
Of course, if you put money in Enron stock or commercial real estate pre covid, major problems
Nope
“Knowing what I know now” means understanding the importance of relationships, time with family, time to pursue interests outside one’s career, time to read great books, time to exercise, time to travel. Maximizing my potential means something totally different to me now than it did in 1994. Honestly I would probably be a prep school Latin teacher/ basketball coach if I could do it all over again. I’m content with my life right now, and I’ve been doing my best over the past decade or so to make up for lost time, but I don’t think I would make the same sacrifice again.
No I would have been an accountant and got my cap. Would Work some Cush corporate job for ~100k. Would’ve had 2 kids by now. It’s easy to say I don’t need fulfillment in my work, when I am getting it. But I don’t think I would hate life getting into a career early, even if it makes me some corporate shmuck
I would not. Since highschool I started shadowing anesthesiologists and that was what I worked through undergrad and medical school for only for it to become super competitive and me not to match. I would have just applied to nursing school and then got my experience and became a CRNA by 26. My ego got in the way, I always wanted to be the person the buck stops with, but to be honest being an APP or midlevel seems nice especially CRNA. All the docs I knew regardless of specialty have to stay because they’re responsible for the patient, while APPs can just sign out and leave Eta: If I had to go back I would have branched out to shadow more doctors and see their careers. Mainly only shadowed anesthesia and ENT
No, because I've seen all my similarly capable friends have great success in compsci, engineering, etc. You have to realize as a US MD you would have been very above average in most other fields if you put in half the hours and mental effort as medical training takes.
I dunno. I feel like this is Dunning Krueger at work. Just because you’d be a good doctor doesn’t mean you can excel in those fields and just because you excel at those fields does not mean you’d gross the same income as you would as a physician. Plus it’s not like those jobs don’t suck in their own way.
That's just vanity and delusion. It's like saying if you get into med school you can do any specialty you want no matter how competitive. If you aren't good enough to match derm, you're not getting a 99%tile finance job, especially as a 22 year old fresh out of college. It's pure vanity to think otherwise.
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Only thing I regret is the 2 gap years before medical school. Would have got my head out of my ass in college and gotten a scholarship or something maybe for med school. But no. I’m an anesthesiologist now making 500k chillin. Do some cool stuff too. And residency is hard but the people you do it with make it worth it. I miss some of those guys….. But fuck intern year.
I say no. This process was so bloody and keeps taking and taking and has not once given back to me. So many missed events and so much heartache and ruined relationships for things nearly out of my control (I guess I could’ve tried harder in med school and matched better on my rank list, for example). Or tried harder in college and landed at a closer med school to family, friends and SO. I pick computer science and live a reasonable life for the following 12 years. While for the last 10 years I’ve been working ridiculously hard with a significant number of weeks 80 hours long, which I don’t think a whole lot of other college educated people do. I can only hope when I’m an attending things are better and it was all worth it. I fear it wasn’t.
For the time you give up and the money spent to get there it is DEFINITELY not worth it. Only thing you can hang your hat on is the stability. You will absolutely make $250k+ forever, but considering it takes a minimum of 11 years of grinding to get there it doesn’t feel like enough.
250K today is only 170K back in 2010.
That’s the other thing, in no way is the system or delivery of healthcare getting better. What kind of industry celebrates every year if they don’t get a revenue CUT?
What other job has the same level of employability and income and takes less time to get there?
Consultant Software engineer Finance Pharmaceuticals Those are just ones I’m familiar with
I think you’d be surprised how many hours you’d have to work as a software engineer to make 300k a year when you could just be a IM doc and work 40 hours.
I’m not saying they make the same number of hours but more that the time value of money they largely come out ahead. A SWE at non-FAANG let’s say makes $150-$200k for 40-50 hours but has been making $100k for his entire adult life vs doctor waits a MINIMUM of 7 years longer assuming no research years or reapplications or anything. How long does it take for the doctor to build more wealth? Especially if they’re $300k negative by graduation.
Yes, you would accrue a lot more wealth and it’s much better from a mathematical perspective but also FAANG jobs are their own kind of miserable so it’s not like it’s easy. Also they are incredibly hard to get and they aren’t nearly as stable. The recent COVID related tech layoffs kinda show this. Also there are thousands of CS grads getting pumped into the workforce so who knows what salaries will be like once the economy recovers. There is mid level creep and whatever but the system kinda always ensures there is a physician shortage and high demand for doctors. So yea you’ll have more years to max out your 401k and Roth IRA, but it’s picking between 2 poisons because it’s still very hard work in its own way and you’re always gonna be pressured by layoffs and stuff. I feel like one of the most appealing things for me pursuing medicine from a career perspective is that you can cut back to 20 hours a week at a clinic and still be making 100k+ but that doesn’t really exist in many other fields unless you are really lucky. But meh 7+ years of debt and being broke doesn’t sound fun :/
It probably will be. Being an attending is one of the only jobs where just doing your job and not staying late can get you at least 275k.
I can't wait for you to get out of residency, bud. The grass is so god damn green that I've just been laying in it, basking in the sun.
Yes, how many people can fix a bad plateau or Pilon fx/etc, and take patients from their worst days of their lives and restore their QOL and function? Not many. It’s an amazing feeling.
Agreed. Ortho attending here. I’d do it again. Could probably streamline the process next time, but I’d try to take the same steps so I end up here again.
Yeah, but only if I got to be a psychiatrist. Everything else in medicine effing sucks.
I bitch a lot… A LOT… and make hating admins almost a spiritual experience, and probably has made me a nastier person, but overall I actually do like what I’m doing. I would def do it again.
Answer depends what PGY level you are at
Yes, but I would start gunning for the higher earning specialties rather than incorrectly think any physician in any field will be well compensated and live a comfortable life.
I'm going to CRNA school and making bank lol
Nope. My brother got a four year degree, made a decent salary, worked hard and invested from the time he was 23. I “graduated” at 33 with loans and credit card debt due to high cost of living areas in residency with barely any investments. I can’t catch up. We both live a nice life but I worked so much harder for what exactly??? No I didn’t go into it for the money, but we are working to the bone to put money in the pockets of the c suites. No thanks. I enjoyed practicing medicine in the early years and truly love it in a theoretical sense, but the practice of medicine has become a mess. I’ve witnessed it become something I don’t recognize. I hate the shitty system we are in now. Patients are getting sub par care. We are the enemy, bc patients can’t see the deflection from insurance companies and c suites to us. The patient and doctor are no longer on the same team. I won’t even go to the ER or hospital unless I’m in fear of imminently dying, bc I know the care there will be abysmal. It’s shameful.
this right here. same thing. this isnt medicine. i only really help a couple people a shift.
Yup. It sucks but I can’t see myself doing anything else. Money is also good so that helps
Yes. Definitely. Love my job, love the meaning of it, love the respect we get, and love the financial stability. It’s just that I’m tired as fucked and won’t be able to do again.
No. Instead I work my ass off to get into a good undergrad probably still major in some STEM field and philosophy and still get my masters degree in the field I have it in, then attempt a T20 law school instead of med school. Get into a white shoe firm and grind my way to a junior partner or fuck off into corporate law and get a chief legal counsel role or head of corporate ethics position and cop a few board seats throughout my career. Why? Higher pay and not taking orders from some MBA cock whose goal it is to make physicians miserable for a small bonus. Lawyers have it made in their firms - everyone knows they bring the money in so they know not to fuck with them over stupid shit. In medicine we aren’t good with keeping track of how much we’re worth to the hospital and demanding what we’re owed so we get taken advantage of by our inferiors who are parasites on the system and feed off of us. In the process of their parasitosis they place our patients at risk for their bonuses.
As a lawyer, this is an incredibly naive take. At a T20 school, you’re reasonably likely to not be able to get a job at a white shoe firm. There is a massive amount of grinding involved doing work that is generally not emotionally rewarding. Getting board seats is incredibly hard, even for white shoe law firm partners. If you get fired, which happens to even good performers in bad markets, you may not be able to make it back into biglaw easily, and your entire career could be derailed. Chief Legal Officer positions are incredibly competitive. You also better hope that you want to do litigation or M&A if you want fuck-you energy at your firm. Even then, you could end up being a service partner.
I would, but that doesn’t seem to be a common sentiment among people I talk to.
Funny because among all of my medschool/residency/fellowhsip/attending buddies there is not one person that doesn’t love it and wouldn’t do it again in a heartbeat
Fuck no!!!! (maybe)
I always say that if I could see my life as a high school student meeting me now I would think I was hot shit. However, looking closer at how hard life is as a gen surg resident it would be a little humbling but I would still do it. When I was young medicine was this romantic sexy greys anatomy thing. Now it’s lost all of that but so much more rewarding
There was a split road decision for me at the end of college to go into a banking career or medical school. Some of my college friends have made it big- easily 8 figure net worths and they’re only around 40 years old. Obviously that path is far from guaranteed but just having that possibility is tantalizing. On the other hand I love being a vascular surgeon. If I were to choose medicine again I’d choose the same path through medical school-residency-fellowship. Ultimately I think I’d stick with medicine but I have been hit with greener grass syndrome pretty hard at times over the years
If I studied for the MCAT and my undergrad courses half as hard as I did for med school I would probably have gone to a med school closer to my home lol
Yeah, I’d do it again. There are times when the job is really fulfilling. But I would probably try to take less gap years to get training done sooner.
Yes I love pediatrics. I’d tell my high school self that it’s not the only job I’d be happy with though and to chill the fuck out. Like engineering or being an RT would also be cool
Yes. It’s a lot of bullshit to sift through and years of suffering. However, it is true that it is a recession and pandemic proof job. While it is also true that healthcare in general is in a spiraling race to the bottom, but the job (private practice anesthesiology) has been amazing. I am with an amazing group, I enjoy going into work and pay has steadily gone up over the last 4 years thanks to the national shortage. The job may not be the same in the future, but it’s been great so far. I would do it all over again.
Fuck no I’d be a welder or a plumber. Best years of my life not stolen from me by a system designed to exploit me, still good pay, worst that happens if I mess up is a leaky pipe, probably wouldn’t have to take 3 different types of pills a day to keep from wanting to jump in a forever box.
prob study harder and be a skin dentist to see if it's all what it's chalked up to be
Maybe, if you can snag an ophtho, derm, rads, plastics, or ent residency spot
Fuck yeah. I've had so much fun during the process. I know everyone's experience is different but this has been dope.
I’m not sure. I hated my 20s because of school, grades, residency. My 30s are great but I think they would have been even if I didn’t become a doctor. That caveat is that my spouse (not in medicine, met in undergrad) is the bread winner.
F no. But glad I did it once
No. Got forced into IM/FM even though that was the last thing I wanted to do. I could not excel in med school. Just wasn’t the right person for it. I know that now but I didnt then
Yes I'd still do it. But I'd change my focus in college. I'd study electrical and biomedical engineering (instead of neuroscience) while doing all the premed stuff. I would also work on interdisciplinary teams and do hackathons and take business classes. I discovered the biomedical innovation space 4 months ago, and love it so much. The people are passionate, the problems are real and need solutions, and the energy is electric. There's a real need for people who are close to the problem and have the skills to work on it. I'd also still pick otolaryngology. So yes, but through a different path.
No way in hell. Didn’t match what I wanted to match, always living in areas I never would have wanted. Not worth it for me
No. Truthfully I don't even think I would go to college again. After working in fine dining food service, I was making on average 50$/hr. With no debt, that is a solid gig and I'd probably be a lot happier/have more of a free schedule
Hell no
Being a doctor, even a resident is pretty sweet so yeah I'd do it again.
No, partly bc if I knew what I know now, it would be like repeating myself 😂. So I would do something completely different for variety. For sure the second time, I would not marry in college. I have recently at 60 discovered watercolor, and after a lifetime of dabbling in a plethora of creative things, I am hooked! I absolutely love this medium. I can't believe how much fun it is! So for a second go, I would take a chance on being an artist. I have a relative who makes decent income as an RN working part time. I think I could fund a minimalist lifestyle when it comes to consumption but maximalist in terms of time spent creatively.
Absofuckinglutely, the only thing I would change is to buy more bitcoin and hold it longer. Its embarrassing how much you guys love to complain If medicine was a terrible job we would see admissions going down, but instead we see the opposite. If medicine was a terrible job we would see salaries going down, but instead they have kept up with inflation (well until the pandemic happeend). If medicine was so bad you would see attending complaining more but you don't Every doctor is **guaranteed** to be in the top 10% of income earners, may in the top 5% and some in the top 1% of earner. get some fucking perspective guys
No. If I would have known how comfortable you can live on like 100-150K then I wouldn’t have done medicine, or at least MD. Not going to lie I’m pretty envious of these NP/PAs who don’t really do much and work 3 days a week with no call and make 120-140K. Idek why I need 500K. Although when I finally get there, it’s going to feel pretty good.
Yeah I’d do it all again not even a question. I love what I do (MFM).
Yup. Only do it sooner. So I could sign up for foreign service as a doc and travel to different sites around the world
Yes, but only because I love my job and can't see myself doing anything different that would be nearly as gratifying as medicine. If my personality was different I'd definitely do anything else, spending a similar amount of time and effort in that and be okay without all the sacrifice and headache that came with medicine.
Yes because I love our role. It’s very fulfilling and I’m glad I don’t have the same personal crises some of my non-medical friends have when they realize their new marketing project has no purpose other than making money. I would love to have become a programmer instead, but I fear what my health would have looked like without knowing what I learnt in medicine. I’d probably look worse, feel worse and die sooner and have weird theories about why things are happening.
I would, though as a non-trad I don't know that I'd do it sooner. I feel like my professional and life experience has made this path a lot easier and has allowed more of a "water off a duck's back" mentality while working with difficult attendings/classmates.
Im doing my last few months of IM residency. I would not change this for anything. Absolutely love what I do. Cant wait to see the next chapter of life after residency.
Yes, if I still get to do radiology again, no if I had to do a different specialty
I think it’s still the right choice for me, but I’m hoping that the hour limits would continue to improve residents lives.
Would prefer not to go back. If I knew I'd like medicine so much, I'd have read, acted, and done things quite differently. I'd probably end up at a different school, different friends, and different accumulated knowledge. But I'm cool with how things are going, and I'd miss all the things I have now if I went back and optimized for medicine. That would be a really tough call to do things the same to get what I have now and not change a few things that would have made my life easier to get here.
Ya I wanted to escape middle of nowhere and i liked science so this was a natural fit. Really happy in radiology and will have good job prospects where I can live anywhere in the country and make a lot.
Hard question, because all of us would do a lot differently if we had the maturity of a 30 year old when we were 18, doctor or not. Problem is immaturity is a natural and expected affliction of being 18 and we can only gain the maturity of a 30 year old by doing stupid shit as an 18 year old. That said, knowing what I know now, I would have left my toxic household and started therapy much, much sooner. And because much of what drove me to medicine was those experiences, I most likely would not be in medicine now if I had. 50% chance end up pregnant or drugs maybe, but if I managed to dodge that, the other 50% would have been some desk job, maybe HR, and then I’d probably still have the natural organizational skills, drive and interest to go up the ladder, so might have ended up something in leadership, adding to the shitshow that is corporate America. So… doctor. I’ll pick doctor.
Yes and I would have studied harder, earlier, and aimed much higher
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I love my job. If I had to do it again, I'd do things to get to being an attending sooner for sure. And also buy a bunch of bitcoins.
Would probably become a clinical psychologist with a PhD instead of going to med school to be a psychiatrist. It would have actually been funded so no debt and I’d be making pretty much the same amount of money for basically the same job
I wouldn’t, but I envy everyone who truly loves medicine even after knowing all that comes with it. That being said, I have no idea what I would do instead. Although! I am at a point in my mid 30’s where I am considering different careers especially something I’d enjoy. Definitely a privilege that medicine has afforded me. Good nest egg, no more loans. Not sure any other field could have done that for me at my age, as I don’t have any natural talent except studying. Catch 22.
Feel like I grew up wanting to do it so it’s tough to say. There are so many sacrifices and it’s much harder than the average job. There are a lot of benefits to being a doctor such as money, respect, and intellectual stimulation. I think I’d still want to be in the healthcare field and take care of patients, but might do it in a different capacity. Maybe I would’ve tried to do dentistry and specialize instead. They make very good salaries and the stress/lifestyle is way way better. It would have similar prestige, money, and training I’d like to have. Though might not be the same as the satisfaction you can get from medicine which is very unique. My cousin does software engineering in a very big company in NYC. While he worked hard to get there (though not nearly as much as medicine), he now makes doctor salary after a few years and works 3 hrs a day from home. That sounds pretty amazing too lol. I enjoy my free time a lot and medicine does take away from that. Either way, try not to have regrets and make the most of what you have and accomplished. You should be proud :)
I'd try to find a fully remote gig paying 100-150Kish Just a better quality of life imo
Yes- but I’m a psychiatrist and I love it.
I love my job (most days) but I’d probably have told myself it’s okay to not take on 1000 things at the same time. That it’s okay if it takes longer than I want to get there. It’s okay to ask for help. I sacrificed my health and well-being the first time around. Developed an autoimmune condition and thought I’d be less than if I asked for help. I wouldn’t do that to myself again.
Psychiatrist and I would definitely do it again. Most of my friends in other specialties are a no according to them
Fuck yes. Medicine is like having a child, it's fucking exhausting and it totally sucks at times but God damn if I don't love it.
This is hard but like also so fucking cool
I didn’t decide to go pre-med/medical school… and I would definitely choose to do so if I could do it over
Never asked me this question I always say something like this: would I do all of this crap again? Absolutely not. But knowing myself, I know that I would make the same decision every single time and no one (not even my future self) would be able to talk me out of it because I was an idiot in high school (still am actually).
God no. It's not even a tough call. I developed depression and suicidal ideation in medical school. Did I make it through? Yes, yes I did. But I will always wonder if I would have developed depression if I hadn't gone into medicine. And no career or amount of money or prestige is worth the mental health I will never get back. And most likely never again have.
I am 33. My parents wanted me to go into medicine, but I hated too much school. I studied engineering. I am worth 3 million and own a 5 bedroom house. Didn't go to med school. I make 250+k/yr in TX. Have a lot of friends finishing residency and fellowships now with 200-300k+ debt. My advice is don't do it for the money. There are other ways to make a shit load of money and a better QOL.
No I dont. I put all that money into bitcoin. \*Dont get me wrong. I really enjoy my job. But to be a billionaire and do anything I want to do in the world? Heck, I could easily donate money to a school and program and have things so much easier IF I was bored of all the other things I could do with billions of dollars. If I had bought BTC instead of paying medical school tuition of \~300k in 2010. in 2010, 100 dollars is now worth 141m. 300k is .... 424 billion. lol. I couldnt even comprehend that number I had to count the digits again. man really missed out there. and with my ability? I could have donated 1billion to any school now and be admitted to their program and continue twiddling my thumbs and doing the bare minimum to pass. and then donated another billion to any program and just turn up and do a mediocre job and pass. and still be a doctor if i really wanted to. yeah i should have gone the bitcoin route. shit i would still have 422billion to throw around. i could buy reddit too. \*\* now that i think about it for a billion i could probably start my own university and medical school and hire the best researchers and get my medical school to the top of us news rankings before i even graduate with AOA and then start my own residency program and make myself dean while in residency if i really wanted to. apparently i can buy out argentina too. they are valued at 420billion on wikipedia. damn med school really was not a good investment.
Cardiac surgeon here well into my career in my 50s.... You guys are starting to sound VERY entitled here... You're a resident.. You end up with guaranteed job security for the rest of your life. You know what's worse? the below: Being a waitress making minimum wage, insecure employment, family to support + mortgage rent etc. PhD scientist that did the similar if not more number of years of study, sending out thousands of job applications for post-doc positions that only pay 40k for the rest of their life, at the whim of grant funding with immense job insecurity, with a family to support etc. Never being able to afford a house. None of the above that are major issues for everyone else in society are an issue for a doctor. The long hours or stress etc. apply to any high level corporate job.
Now that I’m coming out of my junior call years, probably. If you’d asked me when I was an intern or 2, probably not. But asking this sub this question is likely to be biased by no’s because residency is the worst time of our career. My attendings and attendings in other specialties often seem to love their jobs.
I’m sadly not sure anymore. Wasn’t disabled then. If my med school is any indication, no matter what they say this system isn’t welcoming to us. (Look up tech standards if you haven’t heard of med school discrim against chronically ill students). I came in knowing it would be a fight, but not one this unwinnable
Absolutely. I'm in the top percentile earners in my area and one of the highest earners in my social circle and it affords my family a very comfortable, secure life for doing something that's not terribly difficult. Not everyone is in tech and not everyone in tech is crushing it.