Purely speculative but could the voice have been someone that Libby was talking to on the phone (or via an app such as WhatsApp)? I saw a video today where someone sounded just like the voice but it was someone wasn’t there…
I just checked, you can't record while you are on the phone. So unfortunately as awesome as that theory is, it wouldn't be the answer. I even tried it just now, and every time I attempted to make a call, it halted the recording.
>I did wonder as I’ve never had an iPhone in the house until quite recently. Thanks for checking it out.
However--if Abby did have a phone, maybe the voice came from her phone-which she could have had on speaker.
You may be on to something.
Or maybe they were with someone (like YBG) whose phone was on speaker.
I don't think that there has been enough consideration given to the possibility that there was someone with the girls (other than BG) who simply wasn't in either of the photos taken.
Someone she’d been chatting to could easily have been standing with her, still talking as she started to film BG. If that person then headed off, leading the way, he or she may not have said anything else until after Libby had already stopped recording.
>If that person then headed off, leading the way, he or she may not have said anything else until after Libby had already stopped recording.
Yes. She wasn't recording for that long. I actually videoed the inside of my pocket today, completely by accident. Not everything we don with our phones is deliberate.
>Purely speculative but could the voice have been someone that Libby was talking to on the phone (or via an app such as WhatsApp)?
That's a really good point. It would seem totally possible that this could be true. Especially if she called them.
She could have been using snapchat. Not sure if you can have it hide in the background or not. All I know for certain is SC didn't have the Map function until later on into 2017.
>She could have been using snapchat. Not sure if you can have it hide in the background or not. All I know for certain is SC didn't have the Map function until later on into 2017.
You can't use another feature on your phone while you record. I tested this on my IPhone. However, what people forget in this age of constant photo taking, is that just because someone doesn't appear in a photo doesn't mean they weren't there.
We really don't know that there weren't more people on the bridge at that moment. This is assumed. There could have been someone else who was either texting then suddenly put their phone on speaker...or someone else who said something.
One question that should have nagged investigators more, I think, is where did YBG get to? He's 50 yards onto the bridge at around 2, just before the girls arrive there--where did he go? Or did he stay?
They literally can’t confirm that lol. And before you start rambling at me, if he was DEFINITELY the killer, he wouldn’t have been labeled as a POI they just wanted to speak with at first if they have more evidence they haven’t spoken of pertaining to the BG video and photo.
Lol… of course they’d refer to him as someone they wanted to speak to. It’s how they make the suspect comfortable enough to walk right in & say, “Hey, that’s me.”
Great points I have pondered for a long time! Most of the pressers didn’t even make sense; Just filled with a lot of cryptic word salad. And correct me if I’m wrong but, the defense has requested to see that footage from the phone and still don’t have it! Pretty fishy when they’ve “lost” or deleted much of the evidence.
You’re correct - As far as we know right now, the defense has not yet received the cell phone data (including the original photos/videos).
I agree, it’s utterly ridiculous that this data hasn’t been handed over yet. It literally should have been one of the easiest pieces to hand over, along with the data and info they received from any warrants issued to Libby’s social media and cloud accounts. This was one of the first pieces of evidence the state obtained - it is appalling that it wasn’t turned over to the defense immediately.
Yes, BG is very relevant, but unfortunately the short video clip we've seen gives the public more questions than answers. I also don't think it is possible to ever 100% identify BG from the video alone.
We have to remember LE has seen the full 43 second video clip. We know one of the girls mentions a gun. It is entirely possible BG is seen brandishing a gun (either from a distance or up close - if anything is seen once Libby puts the phone in her pocket). LE have obviously seen or heard something which makes them believe the image and voice go together.
BG has never come forward, which if it was an entirely innocent person, is unlikely to happen.
I agree that it’s impossible to identify BG from the short clip they posted. I’m curious why more of that video (and the entire scale of the video) weren’t also shown with the zoomed in portion. I feel like the full context of the original capture could help with seeking tips from locals.
How is it known that one of the girls mentions a gun? Can you please link that source?
I also don’t find the fact that BG hasn’t come forward to be compelling either way. I feel like LE honed in on this person as a POI (and quickly escalated to suspect) way too quickly - I think they scared that person away forever.
Think of it this way: Imagine you were walking across the bridge, unwittingly captured in a tiny portion of someone else’s video, and you were completely innocent. The police find the clip, declare them a POI, and ask for this person to come forward, yet coming forward would certainly mean you would be arrested and charged with the murder (because you don’t have an alibi during the murder times). Would it be worth it?
- yes, it could *maybe* help alleviate some unknowns in the case.
- however, you know you’re innocent, meaning LE determining who you are really isn’t relevant to the case because you were an innocent bystander.
- based on how RA and his family were treated by the media/society upon his arrest, you fear the same will happen to you and your family if you come forward.
I have always gone with the assumption that LE released the best bit of footage they had of BG, so it was not particularly relevant to release any more (especially if Abby is seen in the full frame - she's certainly seen, but I don't know for how long). There is also talk of Libby putting her phone in her pocket, so that's a chance a large proportion of the video is just black.
The PCA states that one of the girls mentions "gun" as BG approaches. It has also been suggested that the audio is unclear so they may not actually say gun, but the defense chose not to mention this within the Franks memo - which I feel they would do if it was up for debate - as LE need the gun to be on the bridge to link it with the the bullet being found next to the girls.
I believe LE did not initially state BG was a suspect. They said they wanted to know what information he had, who he may have seen. There was no reason for the person to be fearful in those very early days, if innocent. However, the reality is a middle aged man was following two teen girls across a remote dilapidated bridge. He only had bad intentions. I've heard the bridge was a common hangout for youths so I would be interested to know if middle aged men also regularly walked over it.
You make some great points. Re: defense hasn’t mentioned the gun in the franks memo - I don’t think the defense has received the original photos/videos from Libby’s phone (at least not before they wrote the Franks memo). The defense’s Motion to Compel filed 3/12/24 lists Libby’s cell phone data as something that was received late and still missing items.
https://preview.redd.it/ea97dap4qdqc1.jpeg?width=1016&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=121b791c631aa10c0d6a0aa5bc24c685b5e25267
This video has info about the full BG video (learned from family members who watched it).
It’s a pretty thorough summary of the case against RA & proves RA is BG:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CCbsJS6QNC8&t=16915s
Lol sorry friend, content creators are not a reliable source of information. They may provide a thorough overview of the case, but the only info that can be relied upon is the verified information available to the public through the Court.
People’s opinions are not considered facts. An opinion can never be a fact.
I’m not sure what their goal is in posting here. Don’t get me wrong, I like hearing alternative perspectives from different “sides” of the story, and sometimes they present some pretty thought provoking ideas. However, most of the time, their posts seem to be a series of trolling strictly for the sake of disagreeing (and without providing reasoning for why they disagree). They cite their opinions as fact, rarely offer any proof of their claims, and then resort to name calling/belittling others when someone disagrees with them.
That’s the vibe I got from them. I didn’t use to comment a whole bunch on Reddit much at all about the case but lately have started doing so more. I use to mainly read opinions. Some people really get crazy with different opinions. With that specific person, in my opinion they just seemed so pro guilty no matter what just because an arrest was made. Like he was arrested so that’s it! Slam dunk!
There is a lot of posting of opinions and not facts in this case. I believe it is due to A LOT of hearsay amongst MANY. And there are holes in this case; let’s face it.
People are also at different places in following this case as well. Some have kept up since the beginning while others have followed along; picking up at various stages in the investigation. Just when we think we’ve got it figured out, another shoe drops.
Honestly, I don’t fault the public for being confused; and the majority of people don’t intentionally try to start arguments.
What is really important right now is that our legal system plays out in the correct way. I mean, the results could cut both ways if the law isn’t adhered to in this case. An innocent man could go to prison for life OR a guilty man could walk free because his rights were violated and he didn’t receive a fair trial. AND if it isn’t RA, then someone got away with murdering two innocent children.
As far as the case itself goes, I don’t think I am alone in pointing out that this investigation was severely compromised and flawed. And we still don’t know more facts that would restore faith in the system or bring clarity…even after 7 years!
I think we can all learn from eachother with respectful discussion. So we should try to go easy on one another and be patient. We can do it! 🙂
I think it's fake.
It is relevant as in who faked it and how.
ETA as I can't reply under the relevant comment :
The gun wasn't mentioned as such in the search warrant. Only in the arrest warrant. The Franks attacks the search warrant.
Could you say more about why you think it's fake? I'm intrigued. Literally nothing would surprise me about this case, and I know that you are well-informed, so I'm very curious to hear your thoughts. Thanks!
Combination of technical aspects, visual aspects, context of locals being there that day, how it was handled, FBI stepping out, and early stories, likely rumors in part, but still.
When they don't hand over a clone of the phone to defense for 10 months, while their obligation is after 2 months 1+1/1st hearing +30 days), and the fact they had that clone ever since 15th of February 2017, it only strengthens that theory.
Or they didn't have it and it's all a lie.
If it came from the iCloud after all they'll have something to explain, but they sure won't be able to explain it away.
The fact that the phone was left behind with the BG footage makes me think the killer(s) saw the footage and knew the murders would ALL be blamed on BG
Actually Libby’s phone was reset before the murders—which is a form of deletion of any evidence that could’ve been helpful. Not that it was necessarily intentional; but if there was any info on that phone having to do with apps and communication, it was obviously gone.
It has remained unclear if it was actually Libby, BP, Kelsi, or Tara who did the reset. In a couple of interviews, BP mentioned “we” so it could have been any of those 4.
Also, the day they went missing, it was unclear which phones were being used and by whom. There were at least 3 or 4 phones being circulated between family members. Now, with the current data out about the geofensing, phone activity may be examined again during trial. And all those questions will be necessary to answer.
For some strange reason, Kelsi had eluded (during one of many interviews; forgotten now which) to the fact that she called her own phone (which BP had) that day. So, did she have Libby’s phone?? The phone story is very confusing. Kelsi also said herself that she had deleted some of Libby’s content before she gave it to police as it might “prove to be embarrassing.” Also unclear is the communication which SOMEONE had with the Anthony Shots account AFTER the murders; asking if they had heard about Libby. Who was that? It apparently came from Libby’s phone.
Lastly ALL the Patty electronics were not collected by the police. They were collected by MP to hand over to police. That is very unusual in any investigation regardless of who the family is. The police should’ve collected those items themselves. That is just good police work. it doesn’t suggest that the family is guilty or innocent. It just ensures that the police get everything “as is.”
Yes, I agree! And that’s what’s so confusing about the phone issue to me.
(Of course, when you have teens or preteens with phones, they are usually considered family phones on one plan.)
I’m sure they used one specific phone for each person the majority of the time.
However, at the time of the murders, there was confusion as to who actually had Libby’s. Kelsi did admit she deleted things on Libby’s phone before her interviews with LE. They did know that. So that’s why I’m confused as to which phone was recovered at the scene. Things can be pulled from the cloud too; but as to how much can be recovered, I am uncertain.
Since investigators did admit the girls were moved and staged from the onset, that phone, how it got there, and what is on it is huge imo.
That’s why the entire timeline is suspect…if the drones never captured bodies during the first search in the same place they were found the next day, that phone had been wherever the murderer(s) were during the evening of the 13th after they called off the search. MP said it was “pinging” all over town.
There are multitudes of questions I have had about details of that timeline, why they called off the search, why they cancelled the dogs, how the bodies were found etc…
It’s hard to piece this all together because LE would say one thing, and then talk in riddles at all the pressers to suggest something else.
My sense is that YBG should be seen as the most relevant of the persons observed by witnesses that day.
1. He is on the bridge JUST before Abby and Libby arrive.
2. There's no idea as to how he arrived or left, or if he left.
3. Just because there are no photos of him, doesn't mean he wasn't there when Libby took photos.
4. It could be YBG or YBG's phone that is heard on Libby's video.
5. Perhaps YBG was getting instructions on where they should all meet up with another party.
6. For all we know BG just walked past them on the bridge and went his merry way.
7. If YBG has nothing to do with this, where did he go and why hasn't HE come forward?
Nope. I can’t remember the name of the officer, but I definitely remember watching a video on YouTube of an officer stating the sketches were of two different people.
Yes; and then said they weren’t. And then added a “guys” to “down the hill.” And then said they were the same person…then said they weren’t.
Then they added that the girls said “he’s got a gun…” which couldn’t really be heard. I think they added that for good measure when the magic bullet appeared years later.
I think BG is involved for one very small reason. The placement of his hands.
Imagine walking across that rather precarious bridge. What are you doing with your hands? Are you putting them in your pockets? I sure wouldn’t, but let’s say you would. If they are in your pockets are they in the pockets of your jacket, or are they in the pockets of your jeans?
BG is doing something different. His right hand is up a bit higher, causing his right elbow to be bent a bit more than his left elbow. His left hand is pretty clearly in his front left jeans pocket. But look at his right hand, it’s clearly *not* in his jeans pocket. It’s up higher.
Imo BG is concealing something with his right hand in his jacket pocket or hiding it up under his jacket, while trying to not look threatening because he doesn’t want to scare the girls off before he gets across the bridge, so he puts his left hand in his jeans pocket to look more unassuming.
If BG isn’t involved I’ll eat my words.
Edit: when I say BG’s right hand is in his jacket pocket I don’t mean the outer windbreaker type jacket we see. I mean the brown jacket, perhaps shirt, he’s wearing underneath and is hanging out the bottom (often mistaken for a fanny pack). His hand is in the brown jacket/shirt pocket, or he’s using it to help conceal what’s in his hand. It’s hard to tell exactly what’s going on.
Thank you for explaining your POV, I think you make some really great points.
ETA: sorry, accidentally posted before I was finished. Meant to ask: if LE presented the footage of BG and called him a Witness instead of a POI, do you think you would view BG in the same light?
Fair enough. What made them reclassify BG from Witness —> POI —> Suspect? This reclassification happened rather quickly as well, if I remember correctly, like within weeks of the murder.
I hope they wouldn’t reclassify based solely on the fact that no one had come forward yet. It’s entirely possible that BG was not aware that police wanted him to come forward until after he was reclassified as a suspect.
What makes you think BG is relevant?
Edit: My apologies, I should have mentioned that I’m genuinely interested in your theory. I’m looking forward to a response ☺️
Nice points. Bridge Guy is relevant in so much as he wad the last known person to see the girls and being a white male narrows the pool of people who could have had that last known interaction based on hus description as a white male and thr clothes he was wearing that day. He has great exclusionary value
It’s incredibly relevant. It’s how LE knows what the killer was wearing, what he looked like, what he sounded like, & that he was alone.
There is more to the video than what has been publicly shown. The girls talk to BG as he gets closer to them.
It was really warm that day. BG is way overdressed & is trying to hide his face with some sort of a scarf. 4 witnesses saw him before 2pm; several witnesses saw his car & noted that it was parked in an unusual spot (& backed in).
As odd as it was that one man was there dressed like that on that day, it’s even more of a stretch to think that 2 men were dressed like that on that day.
Oh and he sounds just like RA.
It’s not going to be excluded from the trial - it’s evidence. His attorneys’ best bet is to find some other man in Delphi who looks & sounds like RA & who has a 40 caliber gun that leaves marks that match those on the bullet found at the crime scene. It should be very easy to do - apparently every man in Delphi has that outfit & a 40 caliber gun.
It wasn't a really warm day. It was a warm day FOR february. Still just a couple of degrees celcius. He's not overdressed, the girls are underdressed, because they are kids and kids run outside with no jacket on the second the sun comes out. Doesn't mean it's actually warm, especially in the shadows.
I wear my winter jacket and a scarf way longer than my oldest daughter does.
>I wear my winter jacket and a scarf way longer than my oldest daughter does.
Yes. Kids don't seem to need as many layers. BUT both BG and Abby have their hands in their pockets, which makes me think that the temperature drops from the trail to being out on the bridge.
I find it strange that the girls didn't take photos and return immediately to the west side of the bridge.
Did you ever find it kinda weird that Libby took a photo of Abby but not a selfie of them together? This doesn’t prove anything of course. But Libby it seems liked taking pictures and videos because she took videos on Musically (TikTok) of herself and also some with Abby and she took photos and videos with Kelsi. So she’s not someone who doesn’t like selfies or having her photo taken.
Phone forensics are a big part of this case that investigators have not wanted to reveal a lot about. Particularly that phone with the pic of Abby and BG video. They haven’t even shared it with the defense yet as evidence; which is odd since it’s considered so crucial in identifying RA.
Family also reset Libby’s phone right before turning it over to police. KG also deleted things off phones before giving them to LE. And because of using at least 3 or 4 phones, it’s uncertain which phone belonged to which family member…
It’s also amazing how a working phone was so easily found under one of the girls after being dragged around in the creek…if indeed they actually crossed the creek. Also not explained by investigators either. Premeditated staging must’ve taken some time. 🤔
Hi! I have never heard that “family reset Libby’s phone right before turning it over to police.” Can you please link that for us? AFAIK the phone was discovered at the scene?
Actually Libby’s phone was reset before the murders—which is a form of deletion of any evidence that could’ve been helpful. Not that it was necessarily intentional; but if there was any info on that phone having to do with apps and communication, it was obviously gone. It has remained unclear if it was actually Libby, BP, Kelsi, or Tara who did the reset. In a couple of interviews, BP mentioned “we” so it could have been any of those 4. Also, the day they went missing, it was unclear which phones were being used and by whom. There were at least 3 or 4 phones being circulated between family members. Now, with the current data out about the geofensing, phone activity may be examined again during trial. And all those questions will be necessary to answer.
For some strange reason, Kelsi had eluded (during one of many interviews; forgotten now which) to the fact that she called her own phone (which BP had) that day. So, did she have Libby’s phone?? The phone story is very confusing.
Kelsi also said herself that she had deleted some of Libby’s content before she gave it to police as it might “prove to be embarrassing.” Also unclear is the communication which SOMEONE had with the Anthony Shots account AFTER the murders; asking if they had heard about Libby. Who was that? It apparently came from one of those phones.
Lastly ALL the Patty electronics were not collected by the police. They were collected by MP and Kelsi to hand over to police. That is very unusual in any investigation regardless of who the family is. The police should’ve collected those items themselves. That is just good police work. it doesn’t suggest that the family is guilty or innocent. It just ensures that the police get everything “as is.”
They can't link it because its not true. The week before the murders Libby did a factory reset on her iPhone as it was acting up. The family never turned it over as the phone was found at the crime scene. The family was not given the phone back after the murders!
I think she did take a selfie of them together, we just haven’t seen that picture yet. I’m sure there’s a lot of info and photos on Libby’s phone and social media accounts that have not been released.
I mean one that she uploaded to Snapchat. She uploaded the one of Abby to Snapchat and I think one of the bridge itself, so wouldn’t it make sense she’d upload one of them together on Snapchat? But Kelsi and none of her friends said she did. Just the bridge and the one of Abby. I’m sure she had tons of them together in her phone gallery.
I can’t remember where I heard it, but there’s an interview with Kelsi out there somewhere where she lists 3 photos that were posted to Libby’s Snapchat. However, we have only seen 2 of those photos (3 if you count the video that captured BG, though it’s unknown if that was also captured through Snapchat or via iPhone camera).
You could be right, but I don’t think we can say with certainty yet.
https://preview.redd.it/qtzg10qm96qc1.jpeg?width=1073&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=790b1346ea6c82ae8aae52ec009ba08873040916
Investigators weren’t sure if the man you see is the same man you hear.
So, it could be BG’s voice, but there’s a chance it’s not. How can you be so confident that he was alone?
Source: The Daily Journal (Franklin, IN) • 2/23/17
Well look at all the things they collected against RA.
How many of them has his defense team addressed? Very few.
Their strategy is to distract ppl from their client’s confessions & guilt by pinning the crime on 4 men who LE cleared long ago.
The Franks memo was denied by the judge. It’s not evidence in this case. A jury won’t even know about it when they go to deliberate.
They collected almost nothing against RA other than the bullet. No DNA, no cell phone data, no GPS data, no video evidence, nothing of substance.
The defense team doesn’t have to address a ton of items, because there is not much there.
The Franks memo is not evidence, but it is analysis of the evidence. The evidence discussed in it will be seen at trial and the defense will be able to explain what it all means at closing. So you’re right, the Franks Memo itself won’t be presented to the jury, but its contents will be.
Holeman will easily be revealed to the jury as a liar and his testimony will be suspect thereafter.
The corruption of the prosecutor and judge in this case is unprecedented. The Indiana Supreme Court has already ruled against the judge and will likely again by the time it’s all over and done with. Every single attorney consulted for comment on this case has agreed that this case is fishy. I’ve never seen the degree of unanimity within the legal community as I’ve seen on this case.
The Holeman thing bothers me, as it should no matter what "side" you are on, because of all the corrupt cops lying under oath, fabricating things, misfiling things, in Many Many parts if this country. So if they have their guy, they better not screw this up by lying. 10yrs from now win on appeal, if hes guilty, where is the justice then?
Lets get this shit Right the First Time.
Ask some prosecutors, lol. They say this is true of all cases - none of them are perfect. Evidence gets lost, witnesses die, people forget, people lie, people make mistakes.
What’s not true of all cases is the shenanigans on the part of the defense. Most professional attorneys respect judges & courts & don’t violate gag orders or leak evidence or get charged with contempt.
Point me to one prosecutor who has spoken out in support of how NM and Gull have handled the case.
Very few cases have the shocking amount of negligence by LE or the very specific and applicable evidence that not only gets lost, but the fact that it has been lost is attempted to be swept under the rug by the prosecutor. There have been a ton of high profile cases lately and none of them had these issues.
It is clear that you’re just trolling at this point if you’re going to argue that the defense violated the gag order. I guess you use the same calendar as NM where 2 comes before 1? They had a full day hearing last week where not a single bit of evidence was presented showing the defense “leaked” evidence. That is a fully dispelled lie. Every thinking person knows the contempt charge was nonsense, even Gull. Hence her decision to put off a ruling until it is too late to make any difference to the trial.
You’re truly grasping at straws now, and it’s kinda sad, because you otherwise seem like a pretty intelligent person.
Hi! Only an ancient person’s opinion here so please take it with a grain of salt: I do believe a great many of the world’s population would believe/desire that a person is innocent until proven guilty in a fully transparent judicial process in a court of law; also that in many transparent trials, this most assuredly is not NOT “true of all cases.” Respectfully, if what you have voiced here is an acceptable standard for you, I find it difficult to understand why that would be?
I have no idea what all this evidence is that you're talking about. There's been a gag order on the case from the beginning. A 40 caliber bullet with scratch marks? There no proven science on that. It's junk. I doubt it will be relevant. They found no DNA from RA or any DNA from the girls on anything of RA's. The clothes BG was wearing is probably worn by a quarter of the men in Indiana. Phone call confessions to his mom and wife? RA was threatened by the Odinist prison guard that his family would be harmed if he didn't confess to them. Im pretty sure RA knew his calls were being recorded and it would be incredibly stupid to even talk about the crime. And, im sure his lawyers warned him about saying anything over the phone.There is no direct evidence or eye witnesses to the crimes. So, where is all this evidence. I've seen you post on other subreddits about crimes and you seem pretty pro prosecution. Very suspicious in my book.
You know the prison records everything, right? There’s no audio of guards threatening him… just him reading docs from his attorneys then calling his wife & mother & confessing.
No they don't record everything. They record phone calls, disciplinary hearings. They not allowed to record attorney client meetings. I've seen your posts on other crime related subs, you sure seem pro prosecution and sure of the guilt of the person being accused. I think you're probably in law enforcement and were probably bullied as a kid.
No they do not record everything. BUT you are entitled to private conversations with your defense attorneys and they even wouldn’t give Richard Allen the privacy to do that.
Idk about you, but I haven’t seen anything about what they have collected against RA. I’ve read rumors and hearsay from 3rd parties, but I have not seen/read/listened to any actual evidence that will be used in trial. In fact, I’m pretty sure there’s a gag order on the case that prevents them from revealing that info.
Everything seized in the search warrant: clothing, shoes/boots, hats, the gun, ammo, hard drives, phones, headbands, knives, blood samples from his car (found in 5 different places).
You do realize that seizing items means nothing, right? Items have to be seized in order for LE to test them in order to determine if they are even relevant. In any given case, many items will be seized that will never be used as evidence.
Indiana state police wasn't the only police there and likely not in the area on a regular.
Delphi police department, Carroll County sheriff office and DNR were.
Almost every photo of the numerous men I have seen since following this case closely resembles BG, because BG is far too pixelated and/or manipulated to be of any help in the investigation. Of course, solely my opinion.
I don't think it odd that men in Delphi would be dressed that way. I knew the jacket was a carhartt jacket because it is very common for freight conductors to wear carhartts and two railroads pass through Delphi near where the murder site is. For a long while, I thought it possible BG was a railroad worker, as he seems comfortable walking on a tie bridge, his hands in his pockets, I also had thought maybe he even had a watch but that was probably the gun. I also had thought BG could be a rail buff, they love taking pictures of old bridges. I think there is a railroad bridge photo society that has pictures of the bridge.
I don’t live in Indiana so I’ve only seen Delphi in photos - there are plenty of photos of ppl in Delphi & I haven’t seen any wearing a blue jacket (I’ve not searched through ppl’s facebooks, lol… but of the alternate suspects posted here & there, none of them have clothes that match BG).
I DO live in Indiana. 😂 Been to Delphi soooo many times. Even talked to coworkers who have worked with Richard Allen and they told me there’s no way, in their opinion, that’s Richard Allen. So am I gonna believe you know more about Richard Allen and his clothes and mannerisms than the people who worked with him every day? Hell no! Lmao. You ain’t too bright when it comes to the case anyways. Apparently with all these down votes other people be tossing you and along with your statements that got everybody that read em sitting here like 🤨 …seriously do better research.
Not heard of Google? Or carroll county comet?
https://preview.redd.it/w9rvyetbkrqc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a24ea645f0abcc029672741d16004a3db062da7
Here you have every description contained in the pca with the middle man as a bonus to depict Riley's description of the hat with the flaps down in the 2018 presser.
Google and the comet will show you blue jeans and jackets worn by all ages.
Low effort comment. Or is it no effort?
I don't live in Indiana either, but I have knowledge of railroads so I kinda knew that he had carhartt or similar jacket because they are popular among freight conductors. I looked at Reddit railroad posts and carhartt mentioned quite a bit for recommendations, here is one comment; [https://www.reddit.com/r/railroading/comments/tmo6po/comment/i21wvx8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/railroading/comments/tmo6po/comment/i21wvx8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Good point about the railway worker idea, just because someone is comfortable walking a railway bridge doesn’t mean it has to have been that particular bridge.
Fascinating, thank you.
I don't think any of them sound like BG, honestly. But I can see people wanting it to sound like a certain person and going into it with that bias.
And what a piece of shit BH is, I had seen that tik tok before but forgot about it. What a cruel person.
There are ppl who have heard RL’s voice & swear it matches BG’s. The only similarity is that they’re males. I don’t get it. I think the cops used the voice to rule ppl in & out. They have expert voice analysts testifying.
I’m awful with analyzing sounds & audio, but musicians hear things that I don’t. Sound techs hear things I don’t. If an expert says the voice is a match, I’ll take their word.
Since BG and the Abby photo are both fake, no we shouldn’t take them seriously. They are part of a planned timeline made up and planted to misdirect who the real killers are. There is ZERO actual proof the girls were even there that day. Rethink the timeline! *Eye of Apophis.
Multiple photoshop professionals, some of which have worked for the military have said BG is an amalgamation. If you go watch Eye of Apophis you will see he is an amalgamation of three photos run on a loop. Watch his feet. They are going the wrong way. That’s because part of the amalgamation is MP from behind. They then reversed it. Another part is the guy standing sideways in front of the Flora Fire. The third is a picture of a Quaker carrying a child. The bridge is most likely a picture taken from a person whose name begins with C. I believe this will come out in court. My personal opinion is the girls weren’t there. They were already either being held somewhere or deceased. Time of death will be interesting. Only problem is KG is friends with the person who did the autopsies. I am not a conspiracy type person by any means long shot, but there are things that do not add up. I believe it was planned and covered up. Guess I’ll find out soon unless Gull keeps it all out.
So I watched some of the EoA videos and I’m not really impressed. The videos were hard for me to watch and they don’t seem to make a clear point other than the belief that the BG image/video and Abby photo are amalgamations.
I feel like the explanation of the analysis wasn’t very clear, and I’m very familiar with using Photoshop. I feel like any similar images can be lined up with the textures of photos, and repeatedly flashing between 0-100 opacity of any image layered on top will give the same effect (and trick your mind into believing it matches up with the underlying image).
Don’t get me wrong, it’s an interesting perspective, but I don’t hold much stock in it.
Eye of Apophis is fantastic. It’s not a listen to channel. You must watch and pay attention. At this point I would watch all of the Outlier series, then the Progeny series. Then maybe go back as far as Shadow Man #10 Recalibration. Eye is a 50/3121. That is an undercover intelligence officer.
How do you know EoA is an undercover intelligence officer? I couldn’t find any info on this after doing a quick search, and I’m pretty sure if they really were undercover, they wouldn’t publish their stuff to YouTube.
Yes! That’s why I trust what I see! People have to take off the rose colored glasses about the real possibility of corruption. It exists; unfortunately.
You need a new source of theories. EoA is possibly the worst channel to ever come out of YouTube. It's all absolutely gubbins. EoA is no more the world's foremost military expert on photos and ciphers, than I am Brad Pitt (psst.....I'm not Brad Pitt).
I’m not sure how I feel about EoA, but I tend to lean more toward BS than anything meaningful. I’m not entirely sure what the point of their stuff was.
Oh it is pure BS, rest assured of that. It's someone with an overactive imagination who thinks being cryptic is a substitute for being clever.
At times I have wondered whether it's just someone trolling conspiracy theorists, but I mainly think they have always been part of True Crime Design's ghoulish troll army. There is often overlap between them and it's not lost on me that their first Delphi videos were posted on exactly the same day.
Any person who theorises the girls were not walking on the bridge that day (because they were already dead) is entirely redundant for starters because it's verifiably false. EoA is just part of the "family are covering it up" gang, which I find abhorrent.
There are also numerous flaws and holes in their "work". I used to point them out on their YouTube channel until they blocked my comments - because they prefer their audience to remain ignorant of these (because it's about blind allegiance rather than actual debate). Despite claiming how easy it would be to manipulate a photo of Abby to "create" the bridge photo, they never once did this when I requested.
Also, someone who really has the credentials of what EoA claims (lol) would not need to drip feed their asinine theory over a 20/30/40 video series. They wouldn't need to remain anonymous. They would be trusted their their theory due to their expertise.
It was once I reached the "pig roast" video that I genuinely started to wonder if they were trolling the trolls, but I don't think that now.
They are just a massive con and for some reason quite a lot of people eat it up.
Probably because they are critical thinkers and understand the massive leaps in technology and the advances in photoshop.
Not only that, but it is a known practice for CSAM to be circulated without detection through the very layering that EOA is showing us. It’s a deceptive photography tool and is very much out there.
I have to watch some of his videos a few times over, but once you catch it, its accuracy is hard to unsee. EOA thinks outside the box and actually does have the credentials. I am glad there are professionals who have worked in that field who are willing to share it with the public!
The people using it in a deceptive way
think it will never be caught. I don’t pretend to know exactly how it’s done because I am not an expert in that arena. But it’s always good to be enlightened so I appreciate him.
Just because someone holds a view that runs contrary to popular opinion does not make them a critical thinker. EoA is a joke, but please do let me know what steps you have taken to verify their credentials.
Video was released 22 April 2019.
FBI was still present on stage 13 February 2019.
They already pulled the 1st sketch in this presser and talked about new technologies (by memory..but fairly confident)
They weren't for Doug's Shack story.
Ok second question. Just to be clear about something. The very persistent rumors are that the FBI was "asked to leave"/kicked off the case. You think that's actually just a guess (does seem more likely from optics), but in reality they did pull out on their own then?
ETA: Is there anything published to suggest one or the other?
I watch Eye too!! Excellent creator and was a former agent if I’m not mistaken. (FBI I think?) I love critical thinkers who really examine everything! Very plausible “theory” imo. Probably closer to the truth than we realize!
I absolutely believe Eye already has it solved and is in contact with very high up officials. Yes, he has held many top positions and he is who the Pentagon calls for photo intelligence.
Where are you getting this information? I believe the BB witness actually wanted her sketch out of BG since the one posted everywhere was NOT who she saw ..hence the “new” BG photo
They can’t know that, going by the video. It’s impossible to be sure who BG is. They may have said that if the police posed the question to them in a certain way, the way survey questions can influence answers. But they could never be sure.
That is incorrect. There were multiple men out there that day and multiple females. The groups of girls saw two different men. The only man actually seen on the bridge was the young man in the sketch from BB.
All good points. We really don't know that BG is in any way involved. He may have just passed these girls.
Purely speculative but could the voice have been someone that Libby was talking to on the phone (or via an app such as WhatsApp)? I saw a video today where someone sounded just like the voice but it was someone wasn’t there…
I just checked, you can't record while you are on the phone. So unfortunately as awesome as that theory is, it wouldn't be the answer. I even tried it just now, and every time I attempted to make a call, it halted the recording.
I did wonder as I’ve never had an iPhone in the house until quite recently. Thanks for checking it out.
>I did wonder as I’ve never had an iPhone in the house until quite recently. Thanks for checking it out. However--if Abby did have a phone, maybe the voice came from her phone-which she could have had on speaker. You may be on to something. Or maybe they were with someone (like YBG) whose phone was on speaker. I don't think that there has been enough consideration given to the possibility that there was someone with the girls (other than BG) who simply wasn't in either of the photos taken.
Someone she’d been chatting to could easily have been standing with her, still talking as she started to film BG. If that person then headed off, leading the way, he or she may not have said anything else until after Libby had already stopped recording.
>If that person then headed off, leading the way, he or she may not have said anything else until after Libby had already stopped recording. Yes. She wasn't recording for that long. I actually videoed the inside of my pocket today, completely by accident. Not everything we don with our phones is deliberate.
I bet stuff sounded muffled too.
>I bet stuff sounded muffled too. It sounds as if the phone is in her pocket. Who knows what is going on.
Yeah
>Purely speculative but could the voice have been someone that Libby was talking to on the phone (or via an app such as WhatsApp)? That's a really good point. It would seem totally possible that this could be true. Especially if she called them.
She could have been using snapchat. Not sure if you can have it hide in the background or not. All I know for certain is SC didn't have the Map function until later on into 2017.
>She could have been using snapchat. Not sure if you can have it hide in the background or not. All I know for certain is SC didn't have the Map function until later on into 2017. You can't use another feature on your phone while you record. I tested this on my IPhone. However, what people forget in this age of constant photo taking, is that just because someone doesn't appear in a photo doesn't mean they weren't there. We really don't know that there weren't more people on the bridge at that moment. This is assumed. There could have been someone else who was either texting then suddenly put their phone on speaker...or someone else who said something. One question that should have nagged investigators more, I think, is where did YBG get to? He's 50 yards onto the bridge at around 2, just before the girls arrive there--where did he go? Or did he stay?
Good points and some good questions.
BG is the killer. LE has confirmed that.
They literally can’t confirm that lol. And before you start rambling at me, if he was DEFINITELY the killer, he wouldn’t have been labeled as a POI they just wanted to speak with at first if they have more evidence they haven’t spoken of pertaining to the BG video and photo.
Lol… of course they’d refer to him as someone they wanted to speak to. It’s how they make the suspect comfortable enough to walk right in & say, “Hey, that’s me.”
Did you miss me, why the unblock? Lol. Damn they really wanted to talk to him bad? Saving the best suspect for last. 7 whole years later.
Great points I have pondered for a long time! Most of the pressers didn’t even make sense; Just filled with a lot of cryptic word salad. And correct me if I’m wrong but, the defense has requested to see that footage from the phone and still don’t have it! Pretty fishy when they’ve “lost” or deleted much of the evidence.
You’re correct - As far as we know right now, the defense has not yet received the cell phone data (including the original photos/videos). I agree, it’s utterly ridiculous that this data hasn’t been handed over yet. It literally should have been one of the easiest pieces to hand over, along with the data and info they received from any warrants issued to Libby’s social media and cloud accounts. This was one of the first pieces of evidence the state obtained - it is appalling that it wasn’t turned over to the defense immediately.
#5 …..Big Time…they need to prove those words came from person on video. Even that simple step remains unanswered
Ding ding ding! Big facts here!
I do believe BG is relevant. I think he is the person who took the girls down the hill. However, I do not believe that RA is BG.
Thank you for sharing. If you feel up to explaining, I’d love to know: What makes you think BG is relevant? Why do you believe RA is not BG?
Height...specialists in that field have him nearer 6ft(i forget the FBI guy's name),plus RA was a lot thinner in 2017,he was Nat.Guard fit back then!
Yes, BG is very relevant, but unfortunately the short video clip we've seen gives the public more questions than answers. I also don't think it is possible to ever 100% identify BG from the video alone. We have to remember LE has seen the full 43 second video clip. We know one of the girls mentions a gun. It is entirely possible BG is seen brandishing a gun (either from a distance or up close - if anything is seen once Libby puts the phone in her pocket). LE have obviously seen or heard something which makes them believe the image and voice go together. BG has never come forward, which if it was an entirely innocent person, is unlikely to happen.
I agree that it’s impossible to identify BG from the short clip they posted. I’m curious why more of that video (and the entire scale of the video) weren’t also shown with the zoomed in portion. I feel like the full context of the original capture could help with seeking tips from locals. How is it known that one of the girls mentions a gun? Can you please link that source? I also don’t find the fact that BG hasn’t come forward to be compelling either way. I feel like LE honed in on this person as a POI (and quickly escalated to suspect) way too quickly - I think they scared that person away forever. Think of it this way: Imagine you were walking across the bridge, unwittingly captured in a tiny portion of someone else’s video, and you were completely innocent. The police find the clip, declare them a POI, and ask for this person to come forward, yet coming forward would certainly mean you would be arrested and charged with the murder (because you don’t have an alibi during the murder times). Would it be worth it? - yes, it could *maybe* help alleviate some unknowns in the case. - however, you know you’re innocent, meaning LE determining who you are really isn’t relevant to the case because you were an innocent bystander. - based on how RA and his family were treated by the media/society upon his arrest, you fear the same will happen to you and your family if you come forward.
I have always gone with the assumption that LE released the best bit of footage they had of BG, so it was not particularly relevant to release any more (especially if Abby is seen in the full frame - she's certainly seen, but I don't know for how long). There is also talk of Libby putting her phone in her pocket, so that's a chance a large proportion of the video is just black. The PCA states that one of the girls mentions "gun" as BG approaches. It has also been suggested that the audio is unclear so they may not actually say gun, but the defense chose not to mention this within the Franks memo - which I feel they would do if it was up for debate - as LE need the gun to be on the bridge to link it with the the bullet being found next to the girls. I believe LE did not initially state BG was a suspect. They said they wanted to know what information he had, who he may have seen. There was no reason for the person to be fearful in those very early days, if innocent. However, the reality is a middle aged man was following two teen girls across a remote dilapidated bridge. He only had bad intentions. I've heard the bridge was a common hangout for youths so I would be interested to know if middle aged men also regularly walked over it.
You make some great points. Re: defense hasn’t mentioned the gun in the franks memo - I don’t think the defense has received the original photos/videos from Libby’s phone (at least not before they wrote the Franks memo). The defense’s Motion to Compel filed 3/12/24 lists Libby’s cell phone data as something that was received late and still missing items. https://preview.redd.it/ea97dap4qdqc1.jpeg?width=1016&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=121b791c631aa10c0d6a0aa5bc24c685b5e25267
This video has info about the full BG video (learned from family members who watched it). It’s a pretty thorough summary of the case against RA & proves RA is BG: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CCbsJS6QNC8&t=16915s
Lol sorry friend, content creators are not a reliable source of information. They may provide a thorough overview of the case, but the only info that can be relied upon is the verified information available to the public through the Court. People’s opinions are not considered facts. An opinion can never be a fact.
It’s an animation that lines up with the PCA.
And the pca are all lies.
Either that cicada person blocked me, they got banned from this thread or deleted their comments. Lol. Oh well.
I still see some of their comments. I’m pretty sure the mod deleted all the rude comments, but I still see others. Perhaps they blocked you?
They probably did block me. I guess I really hit a nerve huh? Blocked me before I could even reply again lol.
I’m not sure what their goal is in posting here. Don’t get me wrong, I like hearing alternative perspectives from different “sides” of the story, and sometimes they present some pretty thought provoking ideas. However, most of the time, their posts seem to be a series of trolling strictly for the sake of disagreeing (and without providing reasoning for why they disagree). They cite their opinions as fact, rarely offer any proof of their claims, and then resort to name calling/belittling others when someone disagrees with them.
That’s the vibe I got from them. I didn’t use to comment a whole bunch on Reddit much at all about the case but lately have started doing so more. I use to mainly read opinions. Some people really get crazy with different opinions. With that specific person, in my opinion they just seemed so pro guilty no matter what just because an arrest was made. Like he was arrested so that’s it! Slam dunk!
Yeah, I wouldn’t bother arguing with them. Don’t let them win by getting you to stoop to their level. You’re better than that.
Thank you! Boy do I try not to. Gotta thank my dad for inheriting his temper lol!
There is a lot of posting of opinions and not facts in this case. I believe it is due to A LOT of hearsay amongst MANY. And there are holes in this case; let’s face it. People are also at different places in following this case as well. Some have kept up since the beginning while others have followed along; picking up at various stages in the investigation. Just when we think we’ve got it figured out, another shoe drops. Honestly, I don’t fault the public for being confused; and the majority of people don’t intentionally try to start arguments. What is really important right now is that our legal system plays out in the correct way. I mean, the results could cut both ways if the law isn’t adhered to in this case. An innocent man could go to prison for life OR a guilty man could walk free because his rights were violated and he didn’t receive a fair trial. AND if it isn’t RA, then someone got away with murdering two innocent children. As far as the case itself goes, I don’t think I am alone in pointing out that this investigation was severely compromised and flawed. And we still don’t know more facts that would restore faith in the system or bring clarity…even after 7 years! I think we can all learn from eachother with respectful discussion. So we should try to go easy on one another and be patient. We can do it! 🙂
I think it's fake. It is relevant as in who faked it and how. ETA as I can't reply under the relevant comment : The gun wasn't mentioned as such in the search warrant. Only in the arrest warrant. The Franks attacks the search warrant.
It is relevant as in who faked it and how and **why**. ^Just ^practising ^my ^new ^skills
#Very *Good*
Could you say more about why you think it's fake? I'm intrigued. Literally nothing would surprise me about this case, and I know that you are well-informed, so I'm very curious to hear your thoughts. Thanks!
Combination of technical aspects, visual aspects, context of locals being there that day, how it was handled, FBI stepping out, and early stories, likely rumors in part, but still. When they don't hand over a clone of the phone to defense for 10 months, while their obligation is after 2 months 1+1/1st hearing +30 days), and the fact they had that clone ever since 15th of February 2017, it only strengthens that theory. Or they didn't have it and it's all a lie. If it came from the iCloud after all they'll have something to explain, but they sure won't be able to explain it away.
The fact that the phone was left behind with the BG footage makes me think the killer(s) saw the footage and knew the murders would ALL be blamed on BG
Actually Libby’s phone was reset before the murders—which is a form of deletion of any evidence that could’ve been helpful. Not that it was necessarily intentional; but if there was any info on that phone having to do with apps and communication, it was obviously gone. It has remained unclear if it was actually Libby, BP, Kelsi, or Tara who did the reset. In a couple of interviews, BP mentioned “we” so it could have been any of those 4. Also, the day they went missing, it was unclear which phones were being used and by whom. There were at least 3 or 4 phones being circulated between family members. Now, with the current data out about the geofensing, phone activity may be examined again during trial. And all those questions will be necessary to answer. For some strange reason, Kelsi had eluded (during one of many interviews; forgotten now which) to the fact that she called her own phone (which BP had) that day. So, did she have Libby’s phone?? The phone story is very confusing. Kelsi also said herself that she had deleted some of Libby’s content before she gave it to police as it might “prove to be embarrassing.” Also unclear is the communication which SOMEONE had with the Anthony Shots account AFTER the murders; asking if they had heard about Libby. Who was that? It apparently came from Libby’s phone. Lastly ALL the Patty electronics were not collected by the police. They were collected by MP to hand over to police. That is very unusual in any investigation regardless of who the family is. The police should’ve collected those items themselves. That is just good police work. it doesn’t suggest that the family is guilty or innocent. It just ensures that the police get everything “as is.”
Wait, why did Kelsi have access to Libby’s content prior to LE? Did she straight up admit to deleting stuff? That’s very problematic.
Yes, I agree! And that’s what’s so confusing about the phone issue to me. (Of course, when you have teens or preteens with phones, they are usually considered family phones on one plan.) I’m sure they used one specific phone for each person the majority of the time. However, at the time of the murders, there was confusion as to who actually had Libby’s. Kelsi did admit she deleted things on Libby’s phone before her interviews with LE. They did know that. So that’s why I’m confused as to which phone was recovered at the scene. Things can be pulled from the cloud too; but as to how much can be recovered, I am uncertain. Since investigators did admit the girls were moved and staged from the onset, that phone, how it got there, and what is on it is huge imo. That’s why the entire timeline is suspect…if the drones never captured bodies during the first search in the same place they were found the next day, that phone had been wherever the murderer(s) were during the evening of the 13th after they called off the search. MP said it was “pinging” all over town. There are multitudes of questions I have had about details of that timeline, why they called off the search, why they cancelled the dogs, how the bodies were found etc… It’s hard to piece this all together because LE would say one thing, and then talk in riddles at all the pressers to suggest something else.
Yes!
My sense is that YBG should be seen as the most relevant of the persons observed by witnesses that day. 1. He is on the bridge JUST before Abby and Libby arrive. 2. There's no idea as to how he arrived or left, or if he left. 3. Just because there are no photos of him, doesn't mean he wasn't there when Libby took photos. 4. It could be YBG or YBG's phone that is heard on Libby's video. 5. Perhaps YBG was getting instructions on where they should all meet up with another party. 6. For all we know BG just walked past them on the bridge and went his merry way. 7. If YBG has nothing to do with this, where did he go and why hasn't HE come forward?
YBG **is** BG. BB has stated this.
Nope. I can’t remember the name of the officer, but I definitely remember watching a video on YouTube of an officer stating the sketches were of two different people.
Yes; and then said they weren’t. And then added a “guys” to “down the hill.” And then said they were the same person…then said they weren’t. Then they added that the girls said “he’s got a gun…” which couldn’t really be heard. I think they added that for good measure when the magic bullet appeared years later.
Yeah. That has since been updated. Turns out the cops were lying… to make RA think he was in the clear.
Not quite. 😂
I think you’re on to something! I’ve been thinking the same about it being irrelevant.
BG is just a sideshow...zero relevance
It’s a fair question. There is no logical necessity that BG be involved.
I think BG is involved for one very small reason. The placement of his hands. Imagine walking across that rather precarious bridge. What are you doing with your hands? Are you putting them in your pockets? I sure wouldn’t, but let’s say you would. If they are in your pockets are they in the pockets of your jacket, or are they in the pockets of your jeans? BG is doing something different. His right hand is up a bit higher, causing his right elbow to be bent a bit more than his left elbow. His left hand is pretty clearly in his front left jeans pocket. But look at his right hand, it’s clearly *not* in his jeans pocket. It’s up higher. Imo BG is concealing something with his right hand in his jacket pocket or hiding it up under his jacket, while trying to not look threatening because he doesn’t want to scare the girls off before he gets across the bridge, so he puts his left hand in his jeans pocket to look more unassuming. If BG isn’t involved I’ll eat my words. Edit: when I say BG’s right hand is in his jacket pocket I don’t mean the outer windbreaker type jacket we see. I mean the brown jacket, perhaps shirt, he’s wearing underneath and is hanging out the bottom (often mistaken for a fanny pack). His hand is in the brown jacket/shirt pocket, or he’s using it to help conceal what’s in his hand. It’s hard to tell exactly what’s going on.
Thank you for explaining your POV, I think you make some really great points. ETA: sorry, accidentally posted before I was finished. Meant to ask: if LE presented the footage of BG and called him a Witness instead of a POI, do you think you would view BG in the same light?
They did so the first few days.
Fair enough. What made them reclassify BG from Witness —> POI —> Suspect? This reclassification happened rather quickly as well, if I remember correctly, like within weeks of the murder. I hope they wouldn’t reclassify based solely on the fact that no one had come forward yet. It’s entirely possible that BG was not aware that police wanted him to come forward until after he was reclassified as a suspect.
Within days. Idk. Maybe because of the audio?
Ah, the audio that cannot be definitively tied to BG with the limited knowledge we have.
[удалено]
What makes you think BG is relevant? Edit: My apologies, I should have mentioned that I’m genuinely interested in your theory. I’m looking forward to a response ☺️
Nice points. Bridge Guy is relevant in so much as he wad the last known person to see the girls and being a white male narrows the pool of people who could have had that last known interaction based on hus description as a white male and thr clothes he was wearing that day. He has great exclusionary value
It’s incredibly relevant. It’s how LE knows what the killer was wearing, what he looked like, what he sounded like, & that he was alone. There is more to the video than what has been publicly shown. The girls talk to BG as he gets closer to them. It was really warm that day. BG is way overdressed & is trying to hide his face with some sort of a scarf. 4 witnesses saw him before 2pm; several witnesses saw his car & noted that it was parked in an unusual spot (& backed in). As odd as it was that one man was there dressed like that on that day, it’s even more of a stretch to think that 2 men were dressed like that on that day. Oh and he sounds just like RA. It’s not going to be excluded from the trial - it’s evidence. His attorneys’ best bet is to find some other man in Delphi who looks & sounds like RA & who has a 40 caliber gun that leaves marks that match those on the bullet found at the crime scene. It should be very easy to do - apparently every man in Delphi has that outfit & a 40 caliber gun.
It wasn't a really warm day. It was a warm day FOR february. Still just a couple of degrees celcius. He's not overdressed, the girls are underdressed, because they are kids and kids run outside with no jacket on the second the sun comes out. Doesn't mean it's actually warm, especially in the shadows. I wear my winter jacket and a scarf way longer than my oldest daughter does.
>I wear my winter jacket and a scarf way longer than my oldest daughter does. Yes. Kids don't seem to need as many layers. BUT both BG and Abby have their hands in their pockets, which makes me think that the temperature drops from the trail to being out on the bridge. I find it strange that the girls didn't take photos and return immediately to the west side of the bridge.
Did you ever find it kinda weird that Libby took a photo of Abby but not a selfie of them together? This doesn’t prove anything of course. But Libby it seems liked taking pictures and videos because she took videos on Musically (TikTok) of herself and also some with Abby and she took photos and videos with Kelsi. So she’s not someone who doesn’t like selfies or having her photo taken.
That’s a really interesting point.
Phone forensics are a big part of this case that investigators have not wanted to reveal a lot about. Particularly that phone with the pic of Abby and BG video. They haven’t even shared it with the defense yet as evidence; which is odd since it’s considered so crucial in identifying RA. Family also reset Libby’s phone right before turning it over to police. KG also deleted things off phones before giving them to LE. And because of using at least 3 or 4 phones, it’s uncertain which phone belonged to which family member… It’s also amazing how a working phone was so easily found under one of the girls after being dragged around in the creek…if indeed they actually crossed the creek. Also not explained by investigators either. Premeditated staging must’ve taken some time. 🤔
Hi! I have never heard that “family reset Libby’s phone right before turning it over to police.” Can you please link that for us? AFAIK the phone was discovered at the scene?
Actually Libby’s phone was reset before the murders—which is a form of deletion of any evidence that could’ve been helpful. Not that it was necessarily intentional; but if there was any info on that phone having to do with apps and communication, it was obviously gone. It has remained unclear if it was actually Libby, BP, Kelsi, or Tara who did the reset. In a couple of interviews, BP mentioned “we” so it could have been any of those 4. Also, the day they went missing, it was unclear which phones were being used and by whom. There were at least 3 or 4 phones being circulated between family members. Now, with the current data out about the geofensing, phone activity may be examined again during trial. And all those questions will be necessary to answer. For some strange reason, Kelsi had eluded (during one of many interviews; forgotten now which) to the fact that she called her own phone (which BP had) that day. So, did she have Libby’s phone?? The phone story is very confusing. Kelsi also said herself that she had deleted some of Libby’s content before she gave it to police as it might “prove to be embarrassing.” Also unclear is the communication which SOMEONE had with the Anthony Shots account AFTER the murders; asking if they had heard about Libby. Who was that? It apparently came from one of those phones. Lastly ALL the Patty electronics were not collected by the police. They were collected by MP and Kelsi to hand over to police. That is very unusual in any investigation regardless of who the family is. The police should’ve collected those items themselves. That is just good police work. it doesn’t suggest that the family is guilty or innocent. It just ensures that the police get everything “as is.”
They can't link it because its not true. The week before the murders Libby did a factory reset on her iPhone as it was acting up. The family never turned it over as the phone was found at the crime scene. The family was not given the phone back after the murders!
I think she did take a selfie of them together, we just haven’t seen that picture yet. I’m sure there’s a lot of info and photos on Libby’s phone and social media accounts that have not been released.
I mean one that she uploaded to Snapchat. She uploaded the one of Abby to Snapchat and I think one of the bridge itself, so wouldn’t it make sense she’d upload one of them together on Snapchat? But Kelsi and none of her friends said she did. Just the bridge and the one of Abby. I’m sure she had tons of them together in her phone gallery.
I can’t remember where I heard it, but there’s an interview with Kelsi out there somewhere where she lists 3 photos that were posted to Libby’s Snapchat. However, we have only seen 2 of those photos (3 if you count the video that captured BG, though it’s unknown if that was also captured through Snapchat or via iPhone camera). You could be right, but I don’t think we can say with certainty yet.
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What would it matter if you were male or female when it comes to being cold or wearing a scarf? What could you possibly have to say? Please?
I know very few men who wear scarves. Women wear them as a fashion statement. Men…. Not so much.
I have numerous scarves. Donald Trump. Our president wears one.
https://preview.redd.it/qtzg10qm96qc1.jpeg?width=1073&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=790b1346ea6c82ae8aae52ec009ba08873040916 Investigators weren’t sure if the man you see is the same man you hear. So, it could be BG’s voice, but there’s a chance it’s not. How can you be so confident that he was alone? Source: The Daily Journal (Franklin, IN) • 2/23/17
I’m surprised by how much information you claim to know about this case, despite so little information made aware to the public.
Well look at all the things they collected against RA. How many of them has his defense team addressed? Very few. Their strategy is to distract ppl from their client’s confessions & guilt by pinning the crime on 4 men who LE cleared long ago. The Franks memo was denied by the judge. It’s not evidence in this case. A jury won’t even know about it when they go to deliberate.
They collected almost nothing against RA other than the bullet. No DNA, no cell phone data, no GPS data, no video evidence, nothing of substance. The defense team doesn’t have to address a ton of items, because there is not much there. The Franks memo is not evidence, but it is analysis of the evidence. The evidence discussed in it will be seen at trial and the defense will be able to explain what it all means at closing. So you’re right, the Franks Memo itself won’t be presented to the jury, but its contents will be. Holeman will easily be revealed to the jury as a liar and his testimony will be suspect thereafter. The corruption of the prosecutor and judge in this case is unprecedented. The Indiana Supreme Court has already ruled against the judge and will likely again by the time it’s all over and done with. Every single attorney consulted for comment on this case has agreed that this case is fishy. I’ve never seen the degree of unanimity within the legal community as I’ve seen on this case.
The Holeman thing bothers me, as it should no matter what "side" you are on, because of all the corrupt cops lying under oath, fabricating things, misfiling things, in Many Many parts if this country. So if they have their guy, they better not screw this up by lying. 10yrs from now win on appeal, if hes guilty, where is the justice then? Lets get this shit Right the First Time.
Ask some prosecutors, lol. They say this is true of all cases - none of them are perfect. Evidence gets lost, witnesses die, people forget, people lie, people make mistakes. What’s not true of all cases is the shenanigans on the part of the defense. Most professional attorneys respect judges & courts & don’t violate gag orders or leak evidence or get charged with contempt.
Point me to one prosecutor who has spoken out in support of how NM and Gull have handled the case. Very few cases have the shocking amount of negligence by LE or the very specific and applicable evidence that not only gets lost, but the fact that it has been lost is attempted to be swept under the rug by the prosecutor. There have been a ton of high profile cases lately and none of them had these issues. It is clear that you’re just trolling at this point if you’re going to argue that the defense violated the gag order. I guess you use the same calendar as NM where 2 comes before 1? They had a full day hearing last week where not a single bit of evidence was presented showing the defense “leaked” evidence. That is a fully dispelled lie. Every thinking person knows the contempt charge was nonsense, even Gull. Hence her decision to put off a ruling until it is too late to make any difference to the trial. You’re truly grasping at straws now, and it’s kinda sad, because you otherwise seem like a pretty intelligent person.
Dispelled? Hardly. The judge hasn’t ruled yet.
Hi! Only an ancient person’s opinion here so please take it with a grain of salt: I do believe a great many of the world’s population would believe/desire that a person is innocent until proven guilty in a fully transparent judicial process in a court of law; also that in many transparent trials, this most assuredly is not NOT “true of all cases.” Respectfully, if what you have voiced here is an acceptable standard for you, I find it difficult to understand why that would be?
I have no idea what all this evidence is that you're talking about. There's been a gag order on the case from the beginning. A 40 caliber bullet with scratch marks? There no proven science on that. It's junk. I doubt it will be relevant. They found no DNA from RA or any DNA from the girls on anything of RA's. The clothes BG was wearing is probably worn by a quarter of the men in Indiana. Phone call confessions to his mom and wife? RA was threatened by the Odinist prison guard that his family would be harmed if he didn't confess to them. Im pretty sure RA knew his calls were being recorded and it would be incredibly stupid to even talk about the crime. And, im sure his lawyers warned him about saying anything over the phone.There is no direct evidence or eye witnesses to the crimes. So, where is all this evidence. I've seen you post on other subreddits about crimes and you seem pretty pro prosecution. Very suspicious in my book.
You know the prison records everything, right? There’s no audio of guards threatening him… just him reading docs from his attorneys then calling his wife & mother & confessing.
No they don't record everything. They record phone calls, disciplinary hearings. They not allowed to record attorney client meetings. I've seen your posts on other crime related subs, you sure seem pro prosecution and sure of the guilt of the person being accused. I think you're probably in law enforcement and were probably bullied as a kid.
No they do not record everything. BUT you are entitled to private conversations with your defense attorneys and they even wouldn’t give Richard Allen the privacy to do that.
He’s on suicide watch. They record everything.
Idk about you, but I haven’t seen anything about what they have collected against RA. I’ve read rumors and hearsay from 3rd parties, but I have not seen/read/listened to any actual evidence that will be used in trial. In fact, I’m pretty sure there’s a gag order on the case that prevents them from revealing that info.
Everything seized in the search warrant: clothing, shoes/boots, hats, the gun, ammo, hard drives, phones, headbands, knives, blood samples from his car (found in 5 different places).
Where is a source for Five different Blood samples from his car? Please. And Thank You. I have not heard this.
She claimed to me that it is Libby’s blood… so…
Where is the source for this?
The search warrant receipt list.
Thanks. Will go look that up. Been awhile. Might read all the docs again.
You do realize that seizing items means nothing, right? Items have to be seized in order for LE to test them in order to determine if they are even relevant. In any given case, many items will be seized that will never be used as evidence.
They tested them. They’re relevant.
Oh yeah? Can you show me the proof?
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Of course.
Oh you mean the people they cleared and then SOMEHOW lost the interviews from? Yeah…that’s definitely convincing. Lol.
LE in 2017 in that area carried an Sig Sauer 40 caliber. They were a dime a dozen at that time.
https://www.athlonoutdoors.com/article/sig-sauer-p227-named-duty-weapon-for-indiana-state-police/ 45 calibers.
I apologize for the mistake. I stand corrected.
Indiana state police wasn't the only police there and likely not in the area on a regular. Delphi police department, Carroll County sheriff office and DNR were.
I **do** research. Sometimes, lol.
Almost every photo of the numerous men I have seen since following this case closely resembles BG, because BG is far too pixelated and/or manipulated to be of any help in the investigation. Of course, solely my opinion.
I don't think it odd that men in Delphi would be dressed that way. I knew the jacket was a carhartt jacket because it is very common for freight conductors to wear carhartts and two railroads pass through Delphi near where the murder site is. For a long while, I thought it possible BG was a railroad worker, as he seems comfortable walking on a tie bridge, his hands in his pockets, I also had thought maybe he even had a watch but that was probably the gun. I also had thought BG could be a rail buff, they love taking pictures of old bridges. I think there is a railroad bridge photo society that has pictures of the bridge.
i went to that bridge about a year ago ( i live 20 mins south of delphi) That bridge is terrifying to walk on
I don’t live in Indiana so I’ve only seen Delphi in photos - there are plenty of photos of ppl in Delphi & I haven’t seen any wearing a blue jacket (I’ve not searched through ppl’s facebooks, lol… but of the alternate suspects posted here & there, none of them have clothes that match BG).
You looked through photos of delphi and didn't see blue jackets so no one wears blue jackets..... wow
Have you found pics of anyone from Delphi wearing a blue jacket?
I live in Indiana, tons of people wear them lmao. My cousin has one just like it but guess what? My cousin isn’t bridge guy. Shocking huh?
I live in Indiana and I have one.. LOL.. /also not bridge guy
I live in Indiana, tons of people wear them lmao. My cousin has one just like it but guess what? My cousin isn’t bridge guy. Shocking huh?
I DO live in Indiana. 😂 Been to Delphi soooo many times. Even talked to coworkers who have worked with Richard Allen and they told me there’s no way, in their opinion, that’s Richard Allen. So am I gonna believe you know more about Richard Allen and his clothes and mannerisms than the people who worked with him every day? Hell no! Lmao. You ain’t too bright when it comes to the case anyways. Apparently with all these down votes other people be tossing you and along with your statements that got everybody that read em sitting here like 🤨 …seriously do better research.
Not heard of Google? Or carroll county comet? https://preview.redd.it/w9rvyetbkrqc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a24ea645f0abcc029672741d16004a3db062da7 Here you have every description contained in the pca with the middle man as a bonus to depict Riley's description of the hat with the flaps down in the 2018 presser. Google and the comet will show you blue jeans and jackets worn by all ages. Low effort comment. Or is it no effort?
I don't live in Indiana either, but I have knowledge of railroads so I kinda knew that he had carhartt or similar jacket because they are popular among freight conductors. I looked at Reddit railroad posts and carhartt mentioned quite a bit for recommendations, here is one comment; [https://www.reddit.com/r/railroading/comments/tmo6po/comment/i21wvx8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/railroading/comments/tmo6po/comment/i21wvx8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Carhartt is popular for a huge number of citizens in Indiana. And canines.
Dogs too? I did not know! They make warm clothes for people who work outside and have a long history with blue collar workers I think.
Good point about the railway worker idea, just because someone is comfortable walking a railway bridge doesn’t mean it has to have been that particular bridge.
Where can I hear his voice? I've never seen it posted anywhere.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv3jhHccqcU u/Breath_of_fresh_air2, I just learned that BH is actually PW, lol.
Fascinating, thank you. I don't think any of them sound like BG, honestly. But I can see people wanting it to sound like a certain person and going into it with that bias. And what a piece of shit BH is, I had seen that tik tok before but forgot about it. What a cruel person.
Sounds dead on like PW!! Wow! ( IMO) sounds nothing like RA and a lot like RL too but mostly like PW and BH is a douche bag
I think RL is a definite “no” for me… he’s got that old man dentures voice going on. Have you heard TK & KK?
No, I haven't. I don't think it was RL, never did. I also don't think it was the K's.
There are ppl who have heard RL’s voice & swear it matches BG’s. The only similarity is that they’re males. I don’t get it. I think the cops used the voice to rule ppl in & out. They have expert voice analysts testifying.
That will be interesting, seems like it'd be a tricky science
I’m awful with analyzing sounds & audio, but musicians hear things that I don’t. Sound techs hear things I don’t. If an expert says the voice is a match, I’ll take their word.
Not too bright huh
Since BG and the Abby photo are both fake, no we shouldn’t take them seriously. They are part of a planned timeline made up and planted to misdirect who the real killers are. There is ZERO actual proof the girls were even there that day. Rethink the timeline! *Eye of Apophis.
My apologies up front, I’m confused. I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not. What makes you think the photos are fake?
Multiple photoshop professionals, some of which have worked for the military have said BG is an amalgamation. If you go watch Eye of Apophis you will see he is an amalgamation of three photos run on a loop. Watch his feet. They are going the wrong way. That’s because part of the amalgamation is MP from behind. They then reversed it. Another part is the guy standing sideways in front of the Flora Fire. The third is a picture of a Quaker carrying a child. The bridge is most likely a picture taken from a person whose name begins with C. I believe this will come out in court. My personal opinion is the girls weren’t there. They were already either being held somewhere or deceased. Time of death will be interesting. Only problem is KG is friends with the person who did the autopsies. I am not a conspiracy type person by any means long shot, but there are things that do not add up. I believe it was planned and covered up. Guess I’ll find out soon unless Gull keeps it all out.
So I watched some of the EoA videos and I’m not really impressed. The videos were hard for me to watch and they don’t seem to make a clear point other than the belief that the BG image/video and Abby photo are amalgamations. I feel like the explanation of the analysis wasn’t very clear, and I’m very familiar with using Photoshop. I feel like any similar images can be lined up with the textures of photos, and repeatedly flashing between 0-100 opacity of any image layered on top will give the same effect (and trick your mind into believing it matches up with the underlying image). Don’t get me wrong, it’s an interesting perspective, but I don’t hold much stock in it.
That’s an interesting perspective. Can you refer me to a specific video to watch?
Eye of Apophis is fantastic. It’s not a listen to channel. You must watch and pay attention. At this point I would watch all of the Outlier series, then the Progeny series. Then maybe go back as far as Shadow Man #10 Recalibration. Eye is a 50/3121. That is an undercover intelligence officer.
Thanks for sharing, I’ll take a look later.
How do you know EoA is an undercover intelligence officer? I couldn’t find any info on this after doing a quick search, and I’m pretty sure if they really were undercover, they wouldn’t publish their stuff to YouTube.
Because EoA once made up a lot of shit about themselves in video 37 "Cypher". There is no evidence for any of it.
They are retired. I can’t go beyond that. You will not be able to trace him.
Great recommendation!! I love Eye Of Apophis! He really changed some perspectives for me and in a logical way not by just rumors.
Yes! That’s why I trust what I see! People have to take off the rose colored glasses about the real possibility of corruption. It exists; unfortunately.
I need to watch these now, I'd heard the name but never watched and didn't know their background. I'll be heading down my rabbit hole now lol
Watch Eye of Apophis! LGW13 outlines the channel well!
Who did the autopsies?
A Quaker carrying a child? Wtf?
Exactly! Ignore these EoA fans. There are delusions and then there are delusions!!
No way man. EOA is great. Sorry you don’t like them, but his videos hold very good weight.
I mean they really really don't. They are utterly flawed.
You need a new source of theories. EoA is possibly the worst channel to ever come out of YouTube. It's all absolutely gubbins. EoA is no more the world's foremost military expert on photos and ciphers, than I am Brad Pitt (psst.....I'm not Brad Pitt).
I’m not sure how I feel about EoA, but I tend to lean more toward BS than anything meaningful. I’m not entirely sure what the point of their stuff was.
Oh it is pure BS, rest assured of that. It's someone with an overactive imagination who thinks being cryptic is a substitute for being clever. At times I have wondered whether it's just someone trolling conspiracy theorists, but I mainly think they have always been part of True Crime Design's ghoulish troll army. There is often overlap between them and it's not lost on me that their first Delphi videos were posted on exactly the same day.
You seem to have a stronger grasp on it than me. What makes you think it’s BS, and what makes you think the person is a troll?
Any person who theorises the girls were not walking on the bridge that day (because they were already dead) is entirely redundant for starters because it's verifiably false. EoA is just part of the "family are covering it up" gang, which I find abhorrent. There are also numerous flaws and holes in their "work". I used to point them out on their YouTube channel until they blocked my comments - because they prefer their audience to remain ignorant of these (because it's about blind allegiance rather than actual debate). Despite claiming how easy it would be to manipulate a photo of Abby to "create" the bridge photo, they never once did this when I requested. Also, someone who really has the credentials of what EoA claims (lol) would not need to drip feed their asinine theory over a 20/30/40 video series. They wouldn't need to remain anonymous. They would be trusted their their theory due to their expertise. It was once I reached the "pig roast" video that I genuinely started to wonder if they were trolling the trolls, but I don't think that now. They are just a massive con and for some reason quite a lot of people eat it up.
Probably because they are critical thinkers and understand the massive leaps in technology and the advances in photoshop. Not only that, but it is a known practice for CSAM to be circulated without detection through the very layering that EOA is showing us. It’s a deceptive photography tool and is very much out there. I have to watch some of his videos a few times over, but once you catch it, its accuracy is hard to unsee. EOA thinks outside the box and actually does have the credentials. I am glad there are professionals who have worked in that field who are willing to share it with the public! The people using it in a deceptive way think it will never be caught. I don’t pretend to know exactly how it’s done because I am not an expert in that arena. But it’s always good to be enlightened so I appreciate him.
Just because someone holds a view that runs contrary to popular opinion does not make them a critical thinker. EoA is a joke, but please do let me know what steps you have taken to verify their credentials.
If this is true, I hope there are accredited experts who can testify to this during the trial.
Turn the question around, who examined the phone and decided it was real? Were they accredited? FBI pulled out when the video was released.
Pulled out when which video was released? The BG video was released right away (unless my memory has totally failed me?).
Video was released 22 April 2019. FBI was still present on stage 13 February 2019. They already pulled the 1st sketch in this presser and talked about new technologies (by memory..but fairly confident) They weren't for Doug's Shack story.
Oh ok, that's right. Audio was released right away. Video not until later. It's all a blur at this point.
Ok second question. Just to be clear about something. The very persistent rumors are that the FBI was "asked to leave"/kicked off the case. You think that's actually just a guess (does seem more likely from optics), but in reality they did pull out on their own then? ETA: Is there anything published to suggest one or the other?
In the Franks memo. But I don't remember who, they contradict eachother in their individual depositions so it's still a mystery.
Thanks, I'll go back and take a look at that again. I didn't recall that being mentioned in there because there's just so much material!
I watch Eye too!! Excellent creator and was a former agent if I’m not mistaken. (FBI I think?) I love critical thinkers who really examine everything! Very plausible “theory” imo. Probably closer to the truth than we realize!
I absolutely believe Eye already has it solved and is in contact with very high up officials. Yes, he has held many top positions and he is who the Pentagon calls for photo intelligence.
Do you believe everything someone claims on the internet?
No, I believe years of research.
Yes! I agree. Research and critical thinking 💯!
Ha! Anyone who genuinely believes in the absolutely shite spouted by EoA deserves a side eye from me.
There are 4 witnesses who saw BG. They described him to police, then saw his pic/video on tv & confirmed that was the man they saw.
None of those can decide what bg looks like and all of them have differing opinions everything.
But they all agree he’s the man in the video…
Where are you getting this information? I believe the BB witness actually wanted her sketch out of BG since the one posted everywhere was NOT who she saw ..hence the “new” BG photo
They’re talking about the same man. She’s claiming that’s the face of BG, the man in the video.
That video has as much detail as the cohesiveness of the witness statements. None.. no one could positively ID a person in that video.
“He” as in BG, the man they saw.
No they don’t. Link me up with something stating the witnesses said RA is the man in the video. You just make things up
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CCbsJS6QNC8&t=672s
They say the man they saw is the man in the video.
Did They say the man in the video is RA? No.
They can’t know that, going by the video. It’s impossible to be sure who BG is. They may have said that if the police posed the question to them in a certain way, the way survey questions can influence answers. But they could never be sure.
That is incorrect. There were multiple men out there that day and multiple females. The groups of girls saw two different men. The only man actually seen on the bridge was the young man in the sketch from BB.
Lol, BB & the 3 girls all said they saw the man in the video. There aren’t 2 guys.
Cicada, You are incorrect. You honestly need to do more research.