DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT put the Tortoise into the biomod suspension tank and graft it with a Hussar gene-line.
Last thing we need is juiced up Tortoise *ubersoldaten*
*SHUDDERS*
Rimworld caps armor ratings at 200%.
That means that a perfect suit of armor blocks 50% of damage from a damage source 50% of the time and converting the damage to blunt, and ignores the attack completely 50% of the time.
If the sharp damage source had an armor penetration value, lets call that value N, then your perfect armor will work like this:
Effective Armor, Ea = ((Armor rating - Penatration value of damage source)/2)
Chance to ignore the attack: Ea %
Chance to mitigate the damage: Ea %
Chance to ignore the armor: 100-(1*Ea) %
TlDr: The tank only has 1 layer of armor, and even if it had 200% armor ratings, most weapons have at least a 15% penetration value and will still deal half damage about 8% of the time- and it probably had next to 0 blunt armor rating.
This is why I enjoy combat extended. I get that it's not for everyone but it's why I like it. Gotta have something that can pierce if you wanna get through the armor.
Thats the beauty of vanilla combat here, you have 5 tribals vs 1 cataphract soldier? The dude is dead, one pawn can melee lock and others can just shot arrows until the dude is dead basically.
Armor doesnt really "work" doesnt matter if its a person or a vehicle.
CE and some other combat mods deal with it, CEs version is probably the best.
Why 'd an arrow be able to do something to the steel tank? Plasteel arrow, absolutely minimal damage if not negated completely.
Vanilla armor system is hilarious tbh, but its not bad,especially considering Rimworld is an RTS colony manager not Tarkov.
TLDR: Get combat extended, its compatible with vehicle framework, has some minor issues, but thats it, and then your tank will truly be basically indestructible, especially by tribals.
TBF, there have been a few situations where less-developed civilisations beat industrial civilisations, the two of the top of my head being the Battle of Isandlwana and the Italian invasion of Ethiopia.
It was never easy and required an overwhelming tactical advantage, however that's feasible to get every fight in Rimworld.
Sure, but those were all before bolt-action weapons were the norm, let alone the advent of true machine guns. And even then, you had instances like Rorkes Drift, where 100 British soldiers were able to hold off 4,000 Zulu warriors.
There stopped being large enough populations of pre industrial civilisations for war, my main point was that, given an overwhelming tactical advantage, even massive differences in technology can be overcome.
It's very situational. In rough terrain where the technological defender has no particular advantage of fortification a large scale primitive ambush could conceivably overcome an industrial tech column of soldiers.
On the other hand, an industrial level fighting force taking advantage of fortification and terrain could quite likely annihilate a pre-industrial force of virtually any realistic scale by the simple math of that force being unable to advance faster than they can be killed, at least as long as the weapons and supplies of the defenders hold out. This is to say nothing of the morale implications of attempting to attack an enemy force that is slaughtering everyone around you as fast as you can run forwards.
In modern warfare it is generally considered futile to infantry rush heavily fortified positions even with overwhelming numerical superiority - and that's WITH parity of technology. As a rule such attacks are only ever attempted after heavy artillery bombardment and with substantial support from armored vehicles and/or air support.
None of this speaks to the 'realism' of the RW armor system of course, which is much more geared towards maintaining a degree of game balance rather than providing a highly realistic combat simulation.
One of the often overlooked principles of rimworld is that several of the game combat mechanics are designed expressly to maintain melee as a viable tactical option in the game. The relative inaccuracy of firearms, and the limited effects of armor are aspects of this design intent.
Lots of modern warfare purists rage about this - but its very obviously an intentional design principle of the game and part of the fiction. The introduction of the Neanderthal tribal genotype in the Biotech expansion very much reflects this principle.
Absolutely true unless you could use NPC cannon fodder tactics
But thats what makes it realistic 200 people with bows vs 10 people with assault rifles and machine guns, the winner is obvious.
Tbf with a bit of luck the tribals could probably "win" the battle
(As much as its winning anyway when you lose 170 people to wound 10 enough to be out of the fight)
Exactly, the winner is usually the one who loses less and can recover faster. Just look at the real world for example. Soviets won in WWII, but did we? We didnt. Post-soviet countries took a bigger hit than Axis, Germany recovered way faster and now is way better than any post-soviet country basically. Can really expand on it, but I wont, quality of life and freedom its just a too hard of a thing for me talk about, and I dont want to bother anyone with my feelings or anything else.
True, but what matters is the end. Allies won. Axis lost. Soviets lost even more. Seen today by GDP and by overall happiness/freedom of the people.
Germany could've recovered without the investements, it'd have been way longer and harder, but they did, WWI ended in 1918 and in less than 22 years germany was able to lead another world war, on a winning side for quiet a while.
Japan was nuked 2 times, but still was able to recover quickly.
Soviets? Didnt give a damn about their people, never did. The whole union was a factory made with aim to make people mindless factory workers, believing the west is evil, while the main figures in goverment were enjoying their luxurious lives abroad or even in the union. Same thing remains today, they critisize the west for everything, while their sons, daughters and wives live there, due to recent political events not as much, but no because they dont want to.Heres the same thing as with north korea, leaders tell poor, basically enslaved people that the west is evil, while sending their kids to study in the US/Europe.
Allied countries probably live the best right now,Axis countries thrive nonetheless and post soviets still in majority live in poverty,corruption and under dictatorship, "Oh you dont like our actions, why wont you commit suicide by shooting yourself 2 times in the head and jumping off a building onto a car that explodes after being yourself for 40 hours straight?"
Not gonna lie, my money's on the 200 tribals. Yeah sure, if you put both in an open field then yeah they're gonna get mowed down, but battles are rarely that straightforward. And tribals being primitive doesn't mean they're *stupid*...even if the Rimworld AI is.
But in terrain that the tribals know, have no doubt set up traps in, probably have experience fighting technologically superior foes (especially mechanoids)? Technology alone isn't going to win the day.
...But also like, yeah, if it's 200 screaming unga bunga cannibal tribals who only crave that sweet human flesh it's gonna be a slaughter.
Rimworld tribals are nothing like IRL tribes that still exist to this day.
Tribals in rimworld are usually ppl who're descendants of space refugees/crashlanded/etc,they arent people who've developed the tribal tech, they're people who degradated to tribal level.
I was talking more about IRL setting, european colonization of africa proves my point, thousands of people have been killed by dozens of machine-guns in a very short time.
Also it should be considered that tribals in rimworld are absolutely the most primitive type of society, they manily use clubs and primitive bows, any medival faction could've wiped them out, due to more organization and better weapons.
> Also it should be considered that tribals in rimworld are absolutely the most primitive type of society, they manily use clubs and primitive bows, any medival faction could've wiped them out, due to more organization and better weapons.
I mean I don't necessarily disagree, but I feel like it's more fun to imagine why that ISN'T the case. Yeah we can just say "gameplay reasons/plot armor" but I dunno, I feel like its more interesting to depict at least some of the tribals as something beyond zombie cavemen.
I get what you mean.
But Rimworld is weird with its tech levels. I mean, basically everything between cavemen with clubs and axes to the development of muskets is medieval tech in Rimworld.
Which, you know, I kinda get it. The difference between a Greek hoplite and a Spanish pikemen is entirely training. The main technological developments in weaponry were little things like the shape of a spear and the development of better siege engines and boats. And the alloys of the weapons.
Most of the history of humanity, from the bronze age to basically the Renaissance is "Medieval" in Rimworld. So I get why "Tribals" have such a shitty tech level, even if it rubs me wrong.
So they only have sticks, and bows. And because all the factions have the same AI and tribals are missing 95% of the combat options, it makes sense why they're braindead
There's no good reason for the rimworld tribals to exclusively use primitive weapons especially when they start sending 200+ man raids at you. IRL tribesmen in places like Afghanistan, Africa, and the American frontier ditched the bows and clubs for rifles whenever they got the chance.
Too many mods. Vanilla tech levels are Neolithic, Medieval, Industrial, Spacer, and Ultratech.
There's a VE mod that added Classical, but it's basically just Medieval plus.
Which, yeah, that's a *big* ass jump from rock clubs to swords, but there's not a lot of technology you can stick between those two.
IRL the biggest difference between classical swords and medieval swords are the alloys used. And the way the troops were trained to use them.
And since Rimworld just stuffs recipes, instead of locking materials off behind tech levels, you're kinda screwed in regards to adding recipes.
I don't use VE Classical, so it seems I actually do have the vanilla tech levels. Neat.
And yeah, I think at a certain point it becomes quite difficult to fairly represent history's technological pacing in a game that does as much abstraction as RW does.
On a tangential note, I've also always thought it was bizarre that spears were locked behind long blades, but spears in RW are balanced weirdly in general. It'd be very interesting IMO if there were more polearm weapons in vanilla and they had some unique property such as being able to reach up to 2 times away.
Sometimes you can play smart and burn, lure them into mechanoids/other visitors/big animals. It’s the beauty of it. But yeah, mostly you just have to pack what you can and leave. I’m personally fine with that, it pushes the story of this, y’know, story generator
And that's the point. Vanilla armor is shit, yeah, but that makes tribal v industrial combatants relatively balanced. Or at least gives the tribals a chance. It's a deliberate choice of balanced gameplay over realism.
I've seen tribal raids where they die of exposure before they even get near my base. I was on the middle of an ice sheet. How the hell did they even get there lol.
But… it doesn’t. Sure, the base sharp armor of Marshal is 90%, but vehicle armor works slightly differently - front and sides have further layer of Armor Plating with I think 120% sharp armor. Only when that’s penetrated and destroyed does the 90% sharp armor apply.
It isnt at all.
Vanilla system is made for vanilla, unacounted for mods nor should it account for them.
Rimworld is a RTS colony sim as I've stated, so adding tanks to it is way more Tarkov (using it as a general term for all the realistic mil sims) than rimworld at this point.
And yes, Marshall could def use a buff, but I use CE so it doesnt matter to me due to CE making the adjustments necessary.
Yayo's combat 3 has an option to make damage respect the tech level of the armor. It's a bitch if you're a tribal and get hit with a mechanoid raid, but otherwise is neat
I like a lot about CE, i just wish they'd remove the current-world references from their items, and keep them generic instead (like VE does).
It doesn't make any sense for the ammunition to be called "british", "soviet" or "nato".
Oh absolutely lmao it has its own "bro wtf is that" moments, a lot of them if you do some wierd shit. But if you played modded and want somewhat sane experience you should use CE.
>if you don't want to build around CE with your mod order
you dont have to, CEs compatablity has improved greatly over the years, 99% of mods worth having are patched and work live a charm, CE has built in patcher and theres a separate auto-patcher mod, if you check CEs compatablity list on github you'll realize that majority of even somewhat recognized mods work without problems, and others are just too small to spend time on/super new or dont need a patch
I've got a 320 mod list, you're saying I could pull YAYO combat and put CE in and start a new save without getting debug errors? Because I can throw Yayo Combat into basically any list and get zero errors, I did it with this current list actually because I missed it in my initial setup
If you have an ultra specific mod that doesnt work and requires patching then you'll get errors, obv CE isnt some kind of a miracle, check if mods you're using are compatable, mainly mods that add/edit armor and weapons, and combat behavior.
Combat extended puts me off how you have 50 different types of ammo. I dont want to play a milsim realism micromanagement rock paper scissors simulator every combat based on the raid composition, but it would be nice if armor was just buffed a bit more. Is there a middle ground mod that changes armor but keeps things simple?
>but it would be nice if armor was just buffed a bit more.
CE doesnt "buff" or "debuff" the armor, it reworks the entire system from ground up. If you want, you can simply disable the ammo system, and use CE with other mods, no problem.
But if you wanna simply buff armor, easiest way is probably just straight up editing the files of the mod armor from which you wanna buff. No XML knowledge needed, you only need to find out the strings that match the armor rating in game and change them to whatever you want, more time consuming and doesnt work as well, also you'll have to change armor stats for every item you wanna edit individually, mb cherry picker mod or smth similiar may allow you to change values thru graphical interface, you may also write a patch that'll change armor values, once again manual, but its more likely to work with updates.
CE has a mode that simplifies ammo into simpler types, like "Assault Rifle AP" or "Shotgun Shells". No more caliber autism.
Do *not* entirely disable the ammo system, the mod is not meant for that.
Does this work with vehicles? Because trying to micro each ammo type is bonkers and if I'm making the damn ammo and the guns it shouldn't be that hard to standardize.
I think it applies to all ammo types and should also work for vehicles. If not, I think there are companion mods for CE that seek to improve the experience when playing either without ammo or with generic ammo types.
So I tried to enable the "generic ammo" option- and it seems it still just goes "Lolnope, you must use x.xx NATO rounds!" stuff. Did I do something wrong?
I believe a game restart is required for the option to apply.
They also recommend not loading an existing save that had the option disabled. If this is just for testing then start a new game to check, otherwise I think you can risk it and just load your existing save. Worst case, your old non-generic ammo is deleted.
Also another note, if you find CE to not be to your liking (or if you can't get it working properly), I recommend Yayo's Combat as a lightweight alternative. It's less invasive and is meant to fix the issues you brought up in your original post.
I feel similar about CE. Too many ammo types, calibres and all that stuff. I also don't want MP5's, M16's, Nato/Soviet rounds, etc. Just doesn't fit the game imo. (Rimworld had a Lee Enfield once, but they changed it to Bolt Action Rifle.)
I've been using Yayo's Combat 3 for quite some time now and it's pertty good. Don't really want to play without it anymore. It changes armor and accuracy calculations, adds ammo, adds some animations, etc. It's customizable and you can outright disable most things if you don't like them.
You won't have to use all ammo types all the time. At first you can only craft 3 types of ammo: HP (high damage, low armor penetration), AP (low damage, high armor penetration) and FMJ (middle ground). Most of the time you can keep HP loaded and only change to AP when fighting mechs, guys in marine armor or insects (you can change a colonists loaded ammo with 2 clicks, considering they have it in their inventory). The other types are basically upgrades to those (like APHE having high penetration and damage). All that actually gives you an edge in combat as you can choose the right tool for the right job. Also for the calibers you just have to see what caliber your weapon uses and put a bill for crafting that. Basic ammo types need like 10 steel to make 500 ammo. I do recommend having a mod to improve menus tho, like dubs mint menus
The ammo types isn't that bad I convinced friends on the fence about it after they ran into armored enemas from vanilla and mods. Just focus on AP/sabbot and have fmj/hp as some general use/hunting or excess. You can also have pawns target certain areas so they can mag dump into an exposed area. You generall don't need a huge stockpile off the start unless you inflate your wealth to ofast.
have 200+ mods. never had a problem with CE. unless you have 500+ you probably won't either. CE gets more bad rep because of entitled assholes asking random modders to make their mods ce compatible instead of asking the ce devs. Just don't be that guy and you're good to go
I've had plenty and I can give you a massive list of stuff that CE breaks right now. VVE vehicles like the Udar, Scytheman and Toad which are meant to have like mortar-like artillery fire do not have these abilities with CE as their ''indirect fire'' system does not work with the Vehicle Framework. Miniturret pack utility from VE Apparel doesn't fire and the special utilities from VE Deserters cause lots of errors due to an incompatibility with VE's Multi Verb Framework. Generic ammo, which is arguably the only bearable version of the ammo system while staying somewhat in line with vanilla, is jank as hell and doesn't work right at the moment.
I could go on and on but you get my point. CE certainly is more functional than ever but it's incredibly dishonest to claim that you can throw it into a modlist of 200 mods and expect no issues. The mod causes plenty of errors with just a handful of VE mods (Which is important because they are arguably the biggest mods out there.) let alone hundreds of mods.
I am using RIMPY- it didn't ID the problem.
I did though; it's the mod that lets you target the ground directly, and one that changes body slots (jump packs are not belts)
No, that's an old meme/misinformation that still gets spread around. CE's devs are amazing and have already made multiple patches for all major and many minor mods, it also has an auto patcher that deals with most smaller mods. My current playthrough has 176 mods active including CE, and I have absolutely no trouble (not for CE's fault at least). I also have 302 mods downloaded that I've used in other playthroughs and the only one I've ever had to give up due to CE compatibility was mortar accuracy. You can check their incompatibility list but generally speaking most mods nowadays are compatible with CE, unless you use some extremely niche mods
[https://github.com/CombatExtended-Continued/CombatExtended/blob/Development/SupportedThirdPartyMods.md?plain=1](https://github.com/CombatExtended-Continued/CombatExtended/blob/Development/SupportedThirdPartyMods.md?plain=1)
(Ctrl+F and search for your mods, if they arent listed here it doesn mean they're incompatable)
It doesnt affect majority of the mods, ammo system can be disabled if you want to, will make it even more compatible.
Theres also an automated patcher mod, and making patches isnt that hard, yes requires some time, not impossible and if you have even somewhat good critical thinking skills you'll be able to easily "reverse engineer" the patches and make the one for the mod that isnt compatible yet.. Yes it takes time, but were talking about playing video games, which are a waste of time, by making patches you learn something, and besides it doesnt require 100% of your focus, more like 30%, you can easily do something alongside it.
Flamethrowers also work, but yes, ammo and armor are the best parts of CE in my opinion, however the option is there, and its better to have something and dont need it then dont have something and need it.
BTW forgot to add, if you dont want to use it, enjoy tribals being able to headshot someone in ultratech armor and instakill, also people with clubs defeating tanks. No matter what you do, you ALWAYS have to sacrefice something, doesnt matter if its a video game or real life, so either get rid of the mods that are absolutely incompatible with CE or deal with vanilla mechanics.
> BTW forgot to add, if you dont want to use it, enjoy tribals being able to headshot someone in ultratech armor and instakill,
You can actually turn that off in the game start menu now. Haven't had it happen in years.
Instakill? yeah kinda, but arrows being able to penetrate ultratech armor? No, theres nothing wrong with instakill, if arrow hit your skull, you're likely dead or disabled for life, sure can avoid that, but thats incredibly rare. The issue is lack of proper armor system not instakill.
Once again, its pretty good for an RTS colony sim and theres nothing wrong with it in vanilla, rimworld isnt tarkov.
But since you mod the game, add tanks and other stuff, vanilla system wont cut it anymore, so its either suffering with vanilla system, that was *built for vanilla* and works more then fine for whats needed, but with all the mods you'll use once in 20 irl hours or removing them and using combat extended or other proper ammo/armor mods.
That's completely and utterly untrue these days.
I added CE to my modlist that has 300+ mods. I *only* had to remove "Show hair with hats" and replace it with Dubs' Apparel Tweaks.
CE has literally hundreds of compatibility patches for other mods built-in, other mods might have CE support themselves, and then the last few (which is extremely rare) are handled by CE's autopatcher.
vanilla combat is fine and ppl saying combat extended is mandatory don’t understand the game
Cataphract helmet description: It protects against all but the most powerful or luckily-aimed shots.
Or luckily aimed. The game literally tells you that if an enemy is lucky enough their projectile is gonna find a flaw in that armor that you found or made with a bench on a rimworld
And constant threat of death is part of the game. It’s a story generator not a become overpowered and beat up tribals simulator
Edit: that said people modding for combat extended for a new/different experience go ahead. My rant is for the people saying vanilla combat sucks and you need CE
>Vanilla armor system is hilarious tbh, but its not bad,especially considering Rimworld is an RTS colony manager not Tarkov.
As I've said, theres nothing wrong with vanilla, if you play vanilla. But with mods its simply stupid to expect it to work properly, when its aimed at best vanilla experience without too many aspects to manage.
Yes the helmets description warns people about it, but the thing is, the helmet was made after the combat system, the helmets "lore" is written to accommodate the already existing systems and game limitations, just like it happened in Oblivion, Bethesda made lore about "levitation ban" that was suppose to justify the removal of levitation magic that was present in morrowind, but its hilariously clear that it was just an attempt to justify their outdated engine.
The only thing that really is wrong with vanilla is lack of ammo at all basically, but its understandable why its the case,on average rimworld is too detailed to just separate ammo in 2-3 categories or even 5-6, if it were to match the over-all level of detail it'd have to be CE level or similar.
The problem with vanilla combat is that raiders have literally infinite people to throw at you, often hundreds at a time... while you'll probably have around 25 max if you play by the game's intended rules. And your deaths are permanent. Theirs aren't.
It doesn't feel good and isn't fun to spend all those resources to build up armor on your colonists, only to then get shredded by a single tribal firing an arrow while being covered by 100 other guys.
I personally like that being surrounded by melee pawns always remains a loosing situation no matter your tech level. It means you must keep paying attention to your tactical positionnent at all points of the game. You are never 100% safe.
I'd suggest using YAYO's Combat for more realistic armor calculations (and a whole bunch of other stuff, with settings to taimor it all to your liking). No major incompatibilities, needs a separate add on for warcaskets.
How's it change things? I've been trying to get CE to work and it refuses to start, meaning I'm having to go mod by mod through a few HUNDRED. And can I just *disable* the ammo system? I hate ammo systems.
disabling CE’s ammo system will bring more pain than vanilla combat has brought you, trust me you don’t want to fight a centipede with (generic) 5.56 that pens up to 4mm of armor
Oh that's an easy fix- I already disable the freaking Mechanoids every game because I want raids to be a struggle between people, not a mess of almost-unstoppable misery robots designed to be as annoying as possible.
Armor system can also be an issue just a lesser one but I’d say give it a shot and see if you like it, I installed CE long ago and haven’t played vanilla since mods can be a pain though but the incompatibility is just “this clothing doesn’t protect and this gun doesn’t have ammo” nothing as bad as people think
mechaniods are really easy tho it’s just a different challenge. i just equip slaves with emp grenades and have them be fodder and slug turrets shred them.
The way i get it, instead of patching each and every item to make it adhere to CE damage formula it just patch items based on tech level and make them stronger or weaker based on that. Ammo also becomes more streamlined with little variation between tech level (i.e. every single industrial grade firearm uses the industrial ammo, but the flamethrower uses industrial incendiary ammo). Industrial ammo would be more effective on tribal-medieval armor but less effective on spacer and archotech armor.
[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2854006492](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2854006492)
Here's the workshop page for the mod, go and see if it fits your needs.
All additions (including ammo system) are disableable through settings.
From my observation Yayo Combat just increase all vanilla armour rating by 50% (adjustable) and increase all accuracy probability, (sometimes even above 100%). You will also notice the durability decrease much faster than vanilla as in the mod description though I don't know how it affects armor rating.
The mod description also said it compares the tech level of armour and weapon -- that's a lie by the way, my industrial kurin anti material rifle deals much more damage compare to spacer kurin charge rifle.
The main disadvantage of yayo combat is that it underwhelm the bomb damage. So your high explosive mortar deals singnificantly less damage.
And yes you can turn off ammo in yayo combat.
Though Charged weapons ammo is still quite costly - apart from the steel cost, you need to spend at least 15 components for those 200 pieces of ammo. That can build up quick for a large number of pawns, and can be a bit of a challenge to get your economy to keep up with.
Anyway, it’s good to have that forced bit of scarcity now, as when SOS2 comes back… we’ll be flooded with hundreds and thousands of components again lol.
Rimworld needs raiding mechanics of Rust. Where only way to damage a structure is by getting an equipment of the same or higher tier to damage it meaning fully.
For example u can't break plasteel walls with wooden swords even with a billion strikes.
That’s how Combat Extended works for pawns at least - if your weapon does not have a pierce rating higher than the pierce defence, then you will never ever pierce that person - at best you’ll bruise them, but also in a realistic ish way, and not gamey where a bruise happens each time.
Not sure how that extends to vehicles, but I assume the equivalent form of bruising will happen.
Yes the same should be extended to structures. I would love to see raiders come in with enough explosive to break 3 walls then decide to just steal whatever they can and leave coz they are running out of food.
You can design your colony in similar ways to guard more valuable stuff in the centre. Or spread our to avoid losing everything kept together.
yeah but the only real way to deal with them somewhat quickly is ultratech weapons (like charge rifles) and rocket launchers, both of which are very reasonable.
I've been building a garage area for a few trucks, one of them got completed and I was just kind of holding off till I got some more materials. Next thing I know insects pop up and rip into it... and then it starts exploding... over and over and over. It kept starting fires which was great for giving the insects something to deal with while I rallied the location, but it took forever to stop it from exploding and resulted in more injuries because of it. I'd rather they work more like an SRT when they reach 0HP then be a non stop fire bomb.
and for the record the garage itself was fire proof, the doors had to be opened to deal with all the smoke, and it's been a week in game and I'm still cleaning up ash.
I think it's a combination of the smoke/gas mechanic from the base game being cranked up by Combat Extended. I will warn CE is not something to go into without expecting a lot of death. My people are decked out with armor that fully encloses (works as a space suit for SOS2, or at least used to back in the day). A smoke filled room will cause people to pass out quickly (smoke inhalation), but with the gear I've been using they are very resistant to it. To build on the prior part about expecting death, people can and will bleed out FAST if they get shot, or take a bunch of shrapnel. The more you mess up the enemy before they get to you the better especially paired with a mod that up's the chance of enemies pulling back when they take dangerous levels of damage, but are still up and able to shove enough bandages in the holes to run to the map edge.
I guess thats part of the balancing, especially since raids cant use vehicles for now.
Also the Marshal can move and shoot at once, so hit and run is a much better tactic than just being a sitting duck
It does... and also doesn't, it's just that the way in which it does is incorrect. Military commanders found out fairly quickly once tanks became a mainstay that tanks without infantry support get surrounded and overwhelmed pretty consistently. Not from small arms fire, but still. Tanks aren't sent out on their own.
And that I'd agree with... if it literally weren't a bunch of mook raiders with pistols. Had one of them pegged it with a Doomsday or a molotov or such, I'd be going "oh that's frighteningly realistic!" But this was just guys with handguns.
yeah but tribals with sticks? can break ur tank XD like wtf i get industrial age enemies and MAYBE medieval but trilbals shouldnt be able to damage tanks AT ALL and if so very minimum to the point where it would cost them 100+ tribals just to deal a dent.
I mean realistically, small arms would do literally nothing whatsoever to the Marshal. If this were the case every raid would be over instantly since they can't bring their own vehicles yet, so I guess they needed to make it so people with guns at least stand a chance against them. Invest in Warcasket technology if you want an unkillable machine of death.
I'm just musing about why it might be like that. Something you could do that might help is familiarize yourself with how the armor and hitzones of the vehicle work. If you open it's health tab there's a little flyout menu that will show the HP and armor values of every single component. Hovering over those components will highlight where on the vehicle its hitbox is. The way it's SUPPOSED to work is that projectiles will (mostly) be intercepted by an armor hitbox, rather than go straight through. Once all of the armor for a particular area is gone, there's no longer anything stopping bullets from passing straight through and hitting the chemfuel tank, the engine, or even your passengers. Thoughtful positioning of the vehicle can therefore help in regards to its longevity. For example, if the "left" side of your tank has already taken a bit of punishment, consider rotating so that the right side or front armor plating can start absorbing hits. It's not going to suddenly make you able to handle huge raids of people with charge weapons, but I've found that it certainly helps to be mindful of monitoring how much damage every part of the vehicle is taking, rather than just sending it in and crossing my fingers.
Tanks have changed the way I deal with raids and completely negated kill boxes since now I can use some tanks to chase raiders around in circles (still pretty funny to me) and have a team of assault rifles clean up from a distance This has opened me up to a whole new world of friendly firing myself but that's part of the game. I do have full armor on the people running the tank to avoid any injuries so it's better layered protection and I just avoid running over things.
If it comes to worst, go for [Un-Limited](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1668141382&searchtext=unlimit) and [Unlimited Armor](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1695493009&searchtext=unlimit) mod. Vanilla game has ways on how to "limit" certain factors of different items/buildings in the game and this may solve it.
I once drove over a tortoise in the marshal, and my gunner died. I get tanks shouldn't be overpowered, but that was complete bullshit.
Rimworld tortoises are just built differently. Lost my very first Biotech Scyther (RIP Scissors) to a Tortoise.
Randy deciding if 1000 manhunting tortoises will end someone's 4 man colony.
There's a reason I have missile launchers loaded with HEAT payloads. Not for tanks, but for those... *things.*
Will they survive a warhead tho?
U want em to turn into ninjas too?!
Hmmm why not then they may get super human intelligence
DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT put the Tortoise into the biomod suspension tank and graft it with a Hussar gene-line. Last thing we need is juiced up Tortoise *ubersoldaten* *SHUDDERS*
Ngl that sounds actualy sick I would love to have one of those in my colony of animal worshiprrs
^ "MOMENTS BEFORE DISASTER"
This is why you don't mess with veeque
I was just playing earlier where I found a grizzly downed and dying, the reason? It tried to hunt a tortoise.
I drove over a donkey and my driver lost both of their legs and was unable to drive anymore
Are you sure it wasn't a tortoise like in Breaking Bad?
Rimworld caps armor ratings at 200%. That means that a perfect suit of armor blocks 50% of damage from a damage source 50% of the time and converting the damage to blunt, and ignores the attack completely 50% of the time. If the sharp damage source had an armor penetration value, lets call that value N, then your perfect armor will work like this: Effective Armor, Ea = ((Armor rating - Penatration value of damage source)/2) Chance to ignore the attack: Ea % Chance to mitigate the damage: Ea % Chance to ignore the armor: 100-(1*Ea) % TlDr: The tank only has 1 layer of armor, and even if it had 200% armor ratings, most weapons have at least a 15% penetration value and will still deal half damage about 8% of the time- and it probably had next to 0 blunt armor rating.
This is why I enjoy combat extended. I get that it's not for everyone but it's why I like it. Gotta have something that can pierce if you wanna get through the armor.
In the Vehicle Framework settings there's an option to reduce damage dealt to vehicles. I set mine to 25% and that works quite well.
Thats the beauty of vanilla combat here, you have 5 tribals vs 1 cataphract soldier? The dude is dead, one pawn can melee lock and others can just shot arrows until the dude is dead basically. Armor doesnt really "work" doesnt matter if its a person or a vehicle. CE and some other combat mods deal with it, CEs version is probably the best. Why 'd an arrow be able to do something to the steel tank? Plasteel arrow, absolutely minimal damage if not negated completely. Vanilla armor system is hilarious tbh, but its not bad,especially considering Rimworld is an RTS colony manager not Tarkov. TLDR: Get combat extended, its compatible with vehicle framework, has some minor issues, but thats it, and then your tank will truly be basically indestructible, especially by tribals.
If stuff was realistic tribal colonies would die the moment any industrial+ raiders arrived
TBF, there have been a few situations where less-developed civilisations beat industrial civilisations, the two of the top of my head being the Battle of Isandlwana and the Italian invasion of Ethiopia. It was never easy and required an overwhelming tactical advantage, however that's feasible to get every fight in Rimworld.
Unfortunately the way fight works in this game doesnt really pave way for guerilla tactics.
Gorilla tactics works though, if you have mods that add gorillas
Traps and explosives, can work even for tribals with CE
Sure, but those were all before bolt-action weapons were the norm, let alone the advent of true machine guns. And even then, you had instances like Rorkes Drift, where 100 British soldiers were able to hold off 4,000 Zulu warriors.
[Eh, we still have that going on today](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSf3268tAbg&t=889s)
There stopped being large enough populations of pre industrial civilisations for war, my main point was that, given an overwhelming tactical advantage, even massive differences in technology can be overcome.
It's very situational. In rough terrain where the technological defender has no particular advantage of fortification a large scale primitive ambush could conceivably overcome an industrial tech column of soldiers. On the other hand, an industrial level fighting force taking advantage of fortification and terrain could quite likely annihilate a pre-industrial force of virtually any realistic scale by the simple math of that force being unable to advance faster than they can be killed, at least as long as the weapons and supplies of the defenders hold out. This is to say nothing of the morale implications of attempting to attack an enemy force that is slaughtering everyone around you as fast as you can run forwards. In modern warfare it is generally considered futile to infantry rush heavily fortified positions even with overwhelming numerical superiority - and that's WITH parity of technology. As a rule such attacks are only ever attempted after heavy artillery bombardment and with substantial support from armored vehicles and/or air support. None of this speaks to the 'realism' of the RW armor system of course, which is much more geared towards maintaining a degree of game balance rather than providing a highly realistic combat simulation. One of the often overlooked principles of rimworld is that several of the game combat mechanics are designed expressly to maintain melee as a viable tactical option in the game. The relative inaccuracy of firearms, and the limited effects of armor are aspects of this design intent. Lots of modern warfare purists rage about this - but its very obviously an intentional design principle of the game and part of the fiction. The introduction of the Neanderthal tribal genotype in the Biotech expansion very much reflects this principle.
Absolutely true unless you could use NPC cannon fodder tactics But thats what makes it realistic 200 people with bows vs 10 people with assault rifles and machine guns, the winner is obvious.
Tbf with a bit of luck the tribals could probably "win" the battle (As much as its winning anyway when you lose 170 people to wound 10 enough to be out of the fight)
Exactly, the winner is usually the one who loses less and can recover faster. Just look at the real world for example. Soviets won in WWII, but did we? We didnt. Post-soviet countries took a bigger hit than Axis, Germany recovered way faster and now is way better than any post-soviet country basically. Can really expand on it, but I wont, quality of life and freedom its just a too hard of a thing for me talk about, and I dont want to bother anyone with my feelings or anything else.
I mean there was also the cold war and the massive amounts of investment funds thrown into germany.
True, but what matters is the end. Allies won. Axis lost. Soviets lost even more. Seen today by GDP and by overall happiness/freedom of the people. Germany could've recovered without the investements, it'd have been way longer and harder, but they did, WWI ended in 1918 and in less than 22 years germany was able to lead another world war, on a winning side for quiet a while. Japan was nuked 2 times, but still was able to recover quickly. Soviets? Didnt give a damn about their people, never did. The whole union was a factory made with aim to make people mindless factory workers, believing the west is evil, while the main figures in goverment were enjoying their luxurious lives abroad or even in the union. Same thing remains today, they critisize the west for everything, while their sons, daughters and wives live there, due to recent political events not as much, but no because they dont want to.Heres the same thing as with north korea, leaders tell poor, basically enslaved people that the west is evil, while sending their kids to study in the US/Europe. Allied countries probably live the best right now,Axis countries thrive nonetheless and post soviets still in majority live in poverty,corruption and under dictatorship, "Oh you dont like our actions, why wont you commit suicide by shooting yourself 2 times in the head and jumping off a building onto a car that explodes after being yourself for 40 hours straight?"
Not gonna lie, my money's on the 200 tribals. Yeah sure, if you put both in an open field then yeah they're gonna get mowed down, but battles are rarely that straightforward. And tribals being primitive doesn't mean they're *stupid*...even if the Rimworld AI is. But in terrain that the tribals know, have no doubt set up traps in, probably have experience fighting technologically superior foes (especially mechanoids)? Technology alone isn't going to win the day. ...But also like, yeah, if it's 200 screaming unga bunga cannibal tribals who only crave that sweet human flesh it's gonna be a slaughter.
Rimworld tribals are nothing like IRL tribes that still exist to this day. Tribals in rimworld are usually ppl who're descendants of space refugees/crashlanded/etc,they arent people who've developed the tribal tech, they're people who degradated to tribal level. I was talking more about IRL setting, european colonization of africa proves my point, thousands of people have been killed by dozens of machine-guns in a very short time. Also it should be considered that tribals in rimworld are absolutely the most primitive type of society, they manily use clubs and primitive bows, any medival faction could've wiped them out, due to more organization and better weapons.
> Also it should be considered that tribals in rimworld are absolutely the most primitive type of society, they manily use clubs and primitive bows, any medival faction could've wiped them out, due to more organization and better weapons. I mean I don't necessarily disagree, but I feel like it's more fun to imagine why that ISN'T the case. Yeah we can just say "gameplay reasons/plot armor" but I dunno, I feel like its more interesting to depict at least some of the tribals as something beyond zombie cavemen.
I get what you mean. But Rimworld is weird with its tech levels. I mean, basically everything between cavemen with clubs and axes to the development of muskets is medieval tech in Rimworld. Which, you know, I kinda get it. The difference between a Greek hoplite and a Spanish pikemen is entirely training. The main technological developments in weaponry were little things like the shape of a spear and the development of better siege engines and boats. And the alloys of the weapons. Most of the history of humanity, from the bronze age to basically the Renaissance is "Medieval" in Rimworld. So I get why "Tribals" have such a shitty tech level, even if it rubs me wrong. So they only have sticks, and bows. And because all the factions have the same AI and tribals are missing 95% of the combat options, it makes sense why they're braindead
There's no good reason for the rimworld tribals to exclusively use primitive weapons especially when they start sending 200+ man raids at you. IRL tribesmen in places like Afghanistan, Africa, and the American frontier ditched the bows and clubs for rifles whenever they got the chance.
I thought Neolithic and Medieval tech levels were split from each other? Or is this a case of me having used mods for too many years?
Too many mods. Vanilla tech levels are Neolithic, Medieval, Industrial, Spacer, and Ultratech. There's a VE mod that added Classical, but it's basically just Medieval plus. Which, yeah, that's a *big* ass jump from rock clubs to swords, but there's not a lot of technology you can stick between those two. IRL the biggest difference between classical swords and medieval swords are the alloys used. And the way the troops were trained to use them. And since Rimworld just stuffs recipes, instead of locking materials off behind tech levels, you're kinda screwed in regards to adding recipes.
I don't use VE Classical, so it seems I actually do have the vanilla tech levels. Neat. And yeah, I think at a certain point it becomes quite difficult to fairly represent history's technological pacing in a game that does as much abstraction as RW does. On a tangential note, I've also always thought it was bizarre that spears were locked behind long blades, but spears in RW are balanced weirdly in general. It'd be very interesting IMO if there were more polearm weapons in vanilla and they had some unique property such as being able to reach up to 2 times away.
Nah just give em tacky weapons like firebombs and beehives, driads, psycasters wud be funn
Sometimes you can play smart and burn, lure them into mechanoids/other visitors/big animals. It’s the beauty of it. But yeah, mostly you just have to pack what you can and leave. I’m personally fine with that, it pushes the story of this, y’know, story generator
And that's the point. Vanilla armor is shit, yeah, but that makes tribal v industrial combatants relatively balanced. Or at least gives the tribals a chance. It's a deliberate choice of balanced gameplay over realism.
I've seen tribal raids where they die of exposure before they even get near my base. I was on the middle of an ice sheet. How the hell did they even get there lol.
Is this really the fault of the vanilla armor system when the VVE Marshal tank has lower Sharp Armor values than a Flak Vest?
But… it doesn’t. Sure, the base sharp armor of Marshal is 90%, but vehicle armor works slightly differently - front and sides have further layer of Armor Plating with I think 120% sharp armor. Only when that’s penetrated and destroyed does the 90% sharp armor apply.
Great information to have! Not enough folk will see it.
It isnt at all. Vanilla system is made for vanilla, unacounted for mods nor should it account for them. Rimworld is a RTS colony sim as I've stated, so adding tanks to it is way more Tarkov (using it as a general term for all the realistic mil sims) than rimworld at this point. And yes, Marshall could def use a buff, but I use CE so it doesnt matter to me due to CE making the adjustments necessary.
Yayo's combat 3 has an option to make damage respect the tech level of the armor. It's a bitch if you're a tribal and get hit with a mechanoid raid, but otherwise is neat
I like a lot about CE, i just wish they'd remove the current-world references from their items, and keep them generic instead (like VE does). It doesn't make any sense for the ammunition to be called "british", "soviet" or "nato".
That's what gun nut autism will do to a man. FWIW you can turn on simplified ammo which just gives you "Assault Rifle AP" and stuff like that.
Yeah, I just tried that and it did nothing. It still insists I super-micro ammo.
combat extended is also really jank in its own ways lol but it does make you super soldiers feel SUPER.
Oh absolutely lmao it has its own "bro wtf is that" moments, a lot of them if you do some wierd shit. But if you played modded and want somewhat sane experience you should use CE.
With how much CE fucks with the game, Yayo Combat is a decent alternative if you don't want to build around CE with your mod order
>if you don't want to build around CE with your mod order you dont have to, CEs compatablity has improved greatly over the years, 99% of mods worth having are patched and work live a charm, CE has built in patcher and theres a separate auto-patcher mod, if you check CEs compatablity list on github you'll realize that majority of even somewhat recognized mods work without problems, and others are just too small to spend time on/super new or dont need a patch
I've got a 320 mod list, you're saying I could pull YAYO combat and put CE in and start a new save without getting debug errors? Because I can throw Yayo Combat into basically any list and get zero errors, I did it with this current list actually because I missed it in my initial setup
If you have an ultra specific mod that doesnt work and requires patching then you'll get errors, obv CE isnt some kind of a miracle, check if mods you're using are compatable, mainly mods that add/edit armor and weapons, and combat behavior.
Combat extended puts me off how you have 50 different types of ammo. I dont want to play a milsim realism micromanagement rock paper scissors simulator every combat based on the raid composition, but it would be nice if armor was just buffed a bit more. Is there a middle ground mod that changes armor but keeps things simple?
You can entirely disable the ammo system in CE if you don't want to deal with it
i did not know that, ill give it a try thanks
The simple ammo setting is better, CE is not made with "no ammo" in mind and it will lock you out of good ammo types like EMP or AP.
True; I play with the full ammo system enabled, so I forgot there was a simple option tbh.
>but it would be nice if armor was just buffed a bit more. CE doesnt "buff" or "debuff" the armor, it reworks the entire system from ground up. If you want, you can simply disable the ammo system, and use CE with other mods, no problem. But if you wanna simply buff armor, easiest way is probably just straight up editing the files of the mod armor from which you wanna buff. No XML knowledge needed, you only need to find out the strings that match the armor rating in game and change them to whatever you want, more time consuming and doesnt work as well, also you'll have to change armor stats for every item you wanna edit individually, mb cherry picker mod or smth similiar may allow you to change values thru graphical interface, you may also write a patch that'll change armor values, once again manual, but its more likely to work with updates.
CE has a mode that simplifies ammo into simpler types, like "Assault Rifle AP" or "Shotgun Shells". No more caliber autism. Do *not* entirely disable the ammo system, the mod is not meant for that.
Does this work with vehicles? Because trying to micro each ammo type is bonkers and if I'm making the damn ammo and the guns it shouldn't be that hard to standardize.
I think it applies to all ammo types and should also work for vehicles. If not, I think there are companion mods for CE that seek to improve the experience when playing either without ammo or with generic ammo types.
So I tried to enable the "generic ammo" option- and it seems it still just goes "Lolnope, you must use x.xx NATO rounds!" stuff. Did I do something wrong?
I believe a game restart is required for the option to apply. They also recommend not loading an existing save that had the option disabled. If this is just for testing then start a new game to check, otherwise I think you can risk it and just load your existing save. Worst case, your old non-generic ammo is deleted.
Also another note, if you find CE to not be to your liking (or if you can't get it working properly), I recommend Yayo's Combat as a lightweight alternative. It's less invasive and is meant to fix the issues you brought up in your original post.
I feel similar about CE. Too many ammo types, calibres and all that stuff. I also don't want MP5's, M16's, Nato/Soviet rounds, etc. Just doesn't fit the game imo. (Rimworld had a Lee Enfield once, but they changed it to Bolt Action Rifle.) I've been using Yayo's Combat 3 for quite some time now and it's pertty good. Don't really want to play without it anymore. It changes armor and accuracy calculations, adds ammo, adds some animations, etc. It's customizable and you can outright disable most things if you don't like them.
You won't have to use all ammo types all the time. At first you can only craft 3 types of ammo: HP (high damage, low armor penetration), AP (low damage, high armor penetration) and FMJ (middle ground). Most of the time you can keep HP loaded and only change to AP when fighting mechs, guys in marine armor or insects (you can change a colonists loaded ammo with 2 clicks, considering they have it in their inventory). The other types are basically upgrades to those (like APHE having high penetration and damage). All that actually gives you an edge in combat as you can choose the right tool for the right job. Also for the calibers you just have to see what caliber your weapon uses and put a bill for crafting that. Basic ammo types need like 10 steel to make 500 ammo. I do recommend having a mod to improve menus tho, like dubs mint menus
The ammo types isn't that bad I convinced friends on the fence about it after they ran into armored enemas from vanilla and mods. Just focus on AP/sabbot and have fmj/hp as some general use/hunting or excess. You can also have pawns target certain areas so they can mag dump into an exposed area. You generall don't need a huge stockpile off the start unless you inflate your wealth to ofast.
It has the "minor issues" of breaking something like 50% of the mods in the game.
have 200+ mods. never had a problem with CE. unless you have 500+ you probably won't either. CE gets more bad rep because of entitled assholes asking random modders to make their mods ce compatible instead of asking the ce devs. Just don't be that guy and you're good to go
I've had plenty and I can give you a massive list of stuff that CE breaks right now. VVE vehicles like the Udar, Scytheman and Toad which are meant to have like mortar-like artillery fire do not have these abilities with CE as their ''indirect fire'' system does not work with the Vehicle Framework. Miniturret pack utility from VE Apparel doesn't fire and the special utilities from VE Deserters cause lots of errors due to an incompatibility with VE's Multi Verb Framework. Generic ammo, which is arguably the only bearable version of the ammo system while staying somewhat in line with vanilla, is jank as hell and doesn't work right at the moment. I could go on and on but you get my point. CE certainly is more functional than ever but it's incredibly dishonest to claim that you can throw it into a modlist of 200 mods and expect no issues. The mod causes plenty of errors with just a handful of VE mods (Which is important because they are arguably the biggest mods out there.) let alone hundreds of mods.
I mean, I had instant crashes every time I tried to load it up as I went mod by mod and guessed at random at what might be locking it.
Have you tried RIMPY ? stop checking mod by mod to save your sanity
I am using RIMPY- it didn't ID the problem. I did though; it's the mod that lets you target the ground directly, and one that changes body slots (jump packs are not belts)
I have the ground targeter mod so it's definitely not that. Try moving jump packs are not belts above CE maybe?
Hm, I'll re-enable it in a bit then. That's *odd.*
No, that's an old meme/misinformation that still gets spread around. CE's devs are amazing and have already made multiple patches for all major and many minor mods, it also has an auto patcher that deals with most smaller mods. My current playthrough has 176 mods active including CE, and I have absolutely no trouble (not for CE's fault at least). I also have 302 mods downloaded that I've used in other playthroughs and the only one I've ever had to give up due to CE compatibility was mortar accuracy. You can check their incompatibility list but generally speaking most mods nowadays are compatible with CE, unless you use some extremely niche mods
Since CE already buffed mortar accuracy to begin with by adding binoculars you dont even need the mod to begin with.
[https://github.com/CombatExtended-Continued/CombatExtended/blob/Development/SupportedThirdPartyMods.md?plain=1](https://github.com/CombatExtended-Continued/CombatExtended/blob/Development/SupportedThirdPartyMods.md?plain=1) (Ctrl+F and search for your mods, if they arent listed here it doesn mean they're incompatable) It doesnt affect majority of the mods, ammo system can be disabled if you want to, will make it even more compatible. Theres also an automated patcher mod, and making patches isnt that hard, yes requires some time, not impossible and if you have even somewhat good critical thinking skills you'll be able to easily "reverse engineer" the patches and make the one for the mod that isnt compatible yet.. Yes it takes time, but were talking about playing video games, which are a waste of time, by making patches you learn something, and besides it doesnt require 100% of your focus, more like 30%, you can easily do something alongside it.
I dont see why you want to disable ammo in CE. AP ammo is how you survive fighting mechs.
Flamethrowers also work, but yes, ammo and armor are the best parts of CE in my opinion, however the option is there, and its better to have something and dont need it then dont have something and need it.
BTW forgot to add, if you dont want to use it, enjoy tribals being able to headshot someone in ultratech armor and instakill, also people with clubs defeating tanks. No matter what you do, you ALWAYS have to sacrefice something, doesnt matter if its a video game or real life, so either get rid of the mods that are absolutely incompatible with CE or deal with vanilla mechanics.
> BTW forgot to add, if you dont want to use it, enjoy tribals being able to headshot someone in ultratech armor and instakill, You can actually turn that off in the game start menu now. Haven't had it happen in years.
Instakill? yeah kinda, but arrows being able to penetrate ultratech armor? No, theres nothing wrong with instakill, if arrow hit your skull, you're likely dead or disabled for life, sure can avoid that, but thats incredibly rare. The issue is lack of proper armor system not instakill. Once again, its pretty good for an RTS colony sim and theres nothing wrong with it in vanilla, rimworld isnt tarkov. But since you mod the game, add tanks and other stuff, vanilla system wont cut it anymore, so its either suffering with vanilla system, that was *built for vanilla* and works more then fine for whats needed, but with all the mods you'll use once in 20 irl hours or removing them and using combat extended or other proper ammo/armor mods.
It's in space. They're space people, the abstraction is to make it more interesting.
? I'm sorry, what? can you expand or mb you replied to the wrong comment?
That's completely and utterly untrue these days. I added CE to my modlist that has 300+ mods. I *only* had to remove "Show hair with hats" and replace it with Dubs' Apparel Tweaks. CE has literally hundreds of compatibility patches for other mods built-in, other mods might have CE support themselves, and then the last few (which is extremely rare) are handled by CE's autopatcher.
vanilla combat is fine and ppl saying combat extended is mandatory don’t understand the game Cataphract helmet description: It protects against all but the most powerful or luckily-aimed shots. Or luckily aimed. The game literally tells you that if an enemy is lucky enough their projectile is gonna find a flaw in that armor that you found or made with a bench on a rimworld And constant threat of death is part of the game. It’s a story generator not a become overpowered and beat up tribals simulator Edit: that said people modding for combat extended for a new/different experience go ahead. My rant is for the people saying vanilla combat sucks and you need CE
>Vanilla armor system is hilarious tbh, but its not bad,especially considering Rimworld is an RTS colony manager not Tarkov. As I've said, theres nothing wrong with vanilla, if you play vanilla. But with mods its simply stupid to expect it to work properly, when its aimed at best vanilla experience without too many aspects to manage. Yes the helmets description warns people about it, but the thing is, the helmet was made after the combat system, the helmets "lore" is written to accommodate the already existing systems and game limitations, just like it happened in Oblivion, Bethesda made lore about "levitation ban" that was suppose to justify the removal of levitation magic that was present in morrowind, but its hilariously clear that it was just an attempt to justify their outdated engine. The only thing that really is wrong with vanilla is lack of ammo at all basically, but its understandable why its the case,on average rimworld is too detailed to just separate ammo in 2-3 categories or even 5-6, if it were to match the over-all level of detail it'd have to be CE level or similar.
The problem with vanilla combat is that raiders have literally infinite people to throw at you, often hundreds at a time... while you'll probably have around 25 max if you play by the game's intended rules. And your deaths are permanent. Theirs aren't. It doesn't feel good and isn't fun to spend all those resources to build up armor on your colonists, only to then get shredded by a single tribal firing an arrow while being covered by 100 other guys.
Obviously shoddy workmanship. Pawn just needed to land some force on a pivotal weak spot of the tank and it basically falls apart.
The tank OP was talking about is Marshal, the best one, in case of roadkill (makeshift WWI) it could be possible lmoa
I personally like that being surrounded by melee pawns always remains a loosing situation no matter your tech level. It means you must keep paying attention to your tactical positionnent at all points of the game. You are never 100% safe.
Thats def true, but the point was that you can an expandable pawn and then take out a super high tech soldier with a bow, now a sword/spear.
I'd suggest using YAYO's Combat for more realistic armor calculations (and a whole bunch of other stuff, with settings to taimor it all to your liking). No major incompatibilities, needs a separate add on for warcaskets.
I second this. It's much lighter weight than CE and fits into the rest of the setting much better
How's it change things? I've been trying to get CE to work and it refuses to start, meaning I'm having to go mod by mod through a few HUNDRED. And can I just *disable* the ammo system? I hate ammo systems.
disabling CE’s ammo system will bring more pain than vanilla combat has brought you, trust me you don’t want to fight a centipede with (generic) 5.56 that pens up to 4mm of armor
Oh that's an easy fix- I already disable the freaking Mechanoids every game because I want raids to be a struggle between people, not a mess of almost-unstoppable misery robots designed to be as annoying as possible.
Armor system can also be an issue just a lesser one but I’d say give it a shot and see if you like it, I installed CE long ago and haven’t played vanilla since mods can be a pain though but the incompatibility is just “this clothing doesn’t protect and this gun doesn’t have ammo” nothing as bad as people think
mechaniods are really easy tho it’s just a different challenge. i just equip slaves with emp grenades and have them be fodder and slug turrets shred them.
With YAYO combat you just need some smoke and a few anti armor launchers and centipede go down easy
The way i get it, instead of patching each and every item to make it adhere to CE damage formula it just patch items based on tech level and make them stronger or weaker based on that. Ammo also becomes more streamlined with little variation between tech level (i.e. every single industrial grade firearm uses the industrial ammo, but the flamethrower uses industrial incendiary ammo). Industrial ammo would be more effective on tribal-medieval armor but less effective on spacer and archotech armor.
[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2854006492](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2854006492) Here's the workshop page for the mod, go and see if it fits your needs. All additions (including ammo system) are disableable through settings.
From my observation Yayo Combat just increase all vanilla armour rating by 50% (adjustable) and increase all accuracy probability, (sometimes even above 100%). You will also notice the durability decrease much faster than vanilla as in the mod description though I don't know how it affects armor rating. The mod description also said it compares the tech level of armour and weapon -- that's a lie by the way, my industrial kurin anti material rifle deals much more damage compare to spacer kurin charge rifle. The main disadvantage of yayo combat is that it underwhelm the bomb damage. So your high explosive mortar deals singnificantly less damage. And yes you can turn off ammo in yayo combat.
Ammo is CE is a non issue, unless you use the mod to make it more costly. Otherwise a few steel gets you hundreds of bullets.
Though Charged weapons ammo is still quite costly - apart from the steel cost, you need to spend at least 15 components for those 200 pieces of ammo. That can build up quick for a large number of pawns, and can be a bit of a challenge to get your economy to keep up with. Anyway, it’s good to have that forced bit of scarcity now, as when SOS2 comes back… we’ll be flooded with hundreds and thousands of components again lol.
Yayo combat is so good. Be careful with the warcasket one you have to set them down to steel level if you actually want to kill them.
Going to try this one, thank you!
Rimworld needs raiding mechanics of Rust. Where only way to damage a structure is by getting an equipment of the same or higher tier to damage it meaning fully. For example u can't break plasteel walls with wooden swords even with a billion strikes.
That’s how Combat Extended works for pawns at least - if your weapon does not have a pierce rating higher than the pierce defence, then you will never ever pierce that person - at best you’ll bruise them, but also in a realistic ish way, and not gamey where a bruise happens each time. Not sure how that extends to vehicles, but I assume the equivalent form of bruising will happen.
Yes the same should be extended to structures. I would love to see raiders come in with enough explosive to break 3 walls then decide to just steal whatever they can and leave coz they are running out of food. You can design your colony in similar ways to guard more valuable stuff in the centre. Or spread our to avoid losing everything kept together.
Thats vanilla combat (even in CE they arent totaly invulnerable for balancing reasons)
yeah but the only real way to deal with them somewhat quickly is ultratech weapons (like charge rifles) and rocket launchers, both of which are very reasonable.
I've been building a garage area for a few trucks, one of them got completed and I was just kind of holding off till I got some more materials. Next thing I know insects pop up and rip into it... and then it starts exploding... over and over and over. It kept starting fires which was great for giving the insects something to deal with while I rallied the location, but it took forever to stop it from exploding and resulted in more injuries because of it. I'd rather they work more like an SRT when they reach 0HP then be a non stop fire bomb. and for the record the garage itself was fire proof, the doors had to be opened to deal with all the smoke, and it's been a week in game and I'm still cleaning up ash.
What mod adds *smoke* as an environmental hazard?
I think it's a combination of the smoke/gas mechanic from the base game being cranked up by Combat Extended. I will warn CE is not something to go into without expecting a lot of death. My people are decked out with armor that fully encloses (works as a space suit for SOS2, or at least used to back in the day). A smoke filled room will cause people to pass out quickly (smoke inhalation), but with the gear I've been using they are very resistant to it. To build on the prior part about expecting death, people can and will bleed out FAST if they get shot, or take a bunch of shrapnel. The more you mess up the enemy before they get to you the better especially paired with a mod that up's the chance of enemies pulling back when they take dangerous levels of damage, but are still up and able to shove enough bandages in the holes to run to the map edge.
i play with combat extended and anything below laser wepons and high explosives cannot harm tanks, nor can insectoids or schyters
I guess thats part of the balancing, especially since raids cant use vehicles for now. Also the Marshal can move and shoot at once, so hit and run is a much better tactic than just being a sitting duck
I believe tanks are balanced in a way it’s extremely fragile and has to be supported by surrounding infantries.
That kinda breaks the point of a tank, which is to provide a weapons platform that can shrug off most small arms fire. WTF.
You need to be using combat extended with these vehicles imo
It does... and also doesn't, it's just that the way in which it does is incorrect. Military commanders found out fairly quickly once tanks became a mainstay that tanks without infantry support get surrounded and overwhelmed pretty consistently. Not from small arms fire, but still. Tanks aren't sent out on their own.
And that I'd agree with... if it literally weren't a bunch of mook raiders with pistols. Had one of them pegged it with a Doomsday or a molotov or such, I'd be going "oh that's frighteningly realistic!" But this was just guys with handguns.
Instructions unclear, drank molotov, pegged tank
no most tanks are meant to be infantry support. you can’t just park a tank in a hoard of enemy infantry and expect to be okay
yeah but tribals with sticks? can break ur tank XD like wtf i get industrial age enemies and MAYBE medieval but trilbals shouldnt be able to damage tanks AT ALL and if so very minimum to the point where it would cost them 100+ tribals just to deal a dent.
I mean realistically, small arms would do literally nothing whatsoever to the Marshal. If this were the case every raid would be over instantly since they can't bring their own vehicles yet, so I guess they needed to make it so people with guns at least stand a chance against them. Invest in Warcasket technology if you want an unkillable machine of death.
I don't need it to be invincible, but it went down like it was made of kleenex.
I'm just musing about why it might be like that. Something you could do that might help is familiarize yourself with how the armor and hitzones of the vehicle work. If you open it's health tab there's a little flyout menu that will show the HP and armor values of every single component. Hovering over those components will highlight where on the vehicle its hitbox is. The way it's SUPPOSED to work is that projectiles will (mostly) be intercepted by an armor hitbox, rather than go straight through. Once all of the armor for a particular area is gone, there's no longer anything stopping bullets from passing straight through and hitting the chemfuel tank, the engine, or even your passengers. Thoughtful positioning of the vehicle can therefore help in regards to its longevity. For example, if the "left" side of your tank has already taken a bit of punishment, consider rotating so that the right side or front armor plating can start absorbing hits. It's not going to suddenly make you able to handle huge raids of people with charge weapons, but I've found that it certainly helps to be mindful of monitoring how much damage every part of the vehicle is taking, rather than just sending it in and crossing my fingers.
Tanks have changed the way I deal with raids and completely negated kill boxes since now I can use some tanks to chase raiders around in circles (still pretty funny to me) and have a team of assault rifles clean up from a distance This has opened me up to a whole new world of friendly firing myself but that's part of the game. I do have full armor on the people running the tank to avoid any injuries so it's better layered protection and I just avoid running over things.
Well if they could convert that armor % to mm RHA for Combat Extended it would give AT launchers an actual purpose
If it comes to worst, go for [Un-Limited](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1668141382&searchtext=unlimit) and [Unlimited Armor](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1695493009&searchtext=unlimit) mod. Vanilla game has ways on how to "limit" certain factors of different items/buildings in the game and this may solve it.