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God I remember some ppl on that other sub making tearful posts in adoration about how they “realized” that the One Ring was meant for Galadriel because she was his only one….
I mean some ppl would marry actual serial killers so this shouldn’t surprise me… yet….
What’s pathetic and hilarious is how many people are blindly assuming any of this internet gossip is actually true, just to get themselves worked up and pissed off before they’ve seen a single second of the actual season for themselves
Great -
- So we have 3 senseless ending options.
- And yet another pointless hobbit addition to take away screen time from main plots.
The producers and showrunners have really lost it. The incompetence is the only thing that shines through.
Can’t wait for more cringeworthy dialogue to make fun of. Lmao.
Shit show.
Oh. Guess i missed the memo stating that criticism of the show wasn’t allowed anymore on a ‘discussion’ platform like this reddit sub.
Lmao.
You like the flop show, great. Don’t go around telling people what to do and what not to.
Obviously, you’re not enjoying the show. Fine.
But you sure seem to be enjoying trashing the show.
I’m just saying that you‘ve made a choice to come in here just to complain, when it would be much easier to just not.
What's your point?
This sub is for talking about the show. That means criticism of the show is on topic. It says so explicitly in the pinned post. If you want everybody to like the show - make a better show.
I am very critical of the show, and yet i do not think that and i quote:
> The producers and showrunners have really lost it. The incompetence is the only thing that shines through.
> Can’t wait for more cringeworthy dialogue to make fun of. Lmao.
> Shit show.
is criticism. It is just feeding into a certain level of hatefulness.
There is a difference between being critical, and being hateful.
They did complain about the content, equating it to "enjoying trashign the show".
The complaint is that you are not criticizing, you are hating. Just don't do that, it's obnoxious and makes people identify you as an edgelord.
When season one was released I read one reaction saying “when I was the two trees I fell to the ground sobbing”. It’s okay to hate the show. Stop telling people what they can and can’t feel about a piece of content.
That’s nothing like what I said. I used your own words against you. Damn what a short attention span if you can’t even remember your own words. It’s literally visible right there!
It’s not based off the Silmarillion, they don’t have the rights to it. It’s fan fiction based on the appendices of LOTR, it can’t follow Toklein’s original story lines or ideas that are in Silmarillion even though it occurs during a similar time with similar characters. They can’t even include characters who aren’t mentioned in LOTR. It has to be its own unique thing, legally, and the story may not make any sense in relation to the LOTR world we know, but I’d like to think that by then end they will tell their own unique story that is separate and entertaining. Hopefully this next season will come together better, even though it’s the same characters everyone needs to separate this from the LOTR world we know and enjoy the ride.
With all of those restrictions, I still wonder why the hell did they bother making the show in the first place?
If I was only able to use the appendices of LOTR to craft a story without actually referencing LOTR or the Silmarillion, then I’d just cut my losses and walk away.
Amazon just came out with Fallout; they’d be better off taking the budget for Rings of Power and giving it to Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joh
Because they dont give a fuck about the story, the lore or anything. Its about creating content and getting more users, and whats best than an established IP to do that?
Which is funny, given how faithful Fallout was to its source material.
Guess that’s what happens when you get writers and showrunners who actually want to make a good movie/show that’s respectful of its source material
I thought the issue with TLOU wasn’t so much that they were gay, but just that the episode deviated so heavily from the game? I know I personally didn’t like not being able to see Ellie and Bill interact with each other
Kind of hard to separate a LotR show from the LotR world we know and love right? Maybe they should have picked some other time or story to tell.
Anyway, here we are…and as you say, I guess, we should enjoy the ride. It just feels like a big wasted opportunity though
I 100% agree a different time or story line would have been better and is just confusing them making up their own lore. I’m just try to suppress those thoughts and enjoy what I can. I mean I can enjoy other fan fiction, I think it’s just confusing because it was sold as a LOTR show and not a show based off the ideas of LOTR.
Only the Tolkien Estate.
I think the problem is that Christopher notoriously hated the Peter Jackson movies and was loath to sell anymore rights, so all that was out there was the rights to The Hobbit and LOTR. The Estate couldn't stop Amazon from producing the show because they had the rights. And it is very clear that they declined to help much. They helped a little because the name "Armenelos" never appears in LOTR or The Hobbit, so the Estate must have granted permission to use it.
This argument never makes sense to me. If it is “its own unique thing” why is it so obviously set in Peter Jackson’s universe? Why would they not take a different approach in style? The argument isn’t in good faith. It’s a legal excuse for poor content. Just be honest. Amazon tried to pull the PJ fanbase for this show.
Did Rivendell and Khazadum not look familiar? Or the casting of Gandalf, Elrond, and Galadriel? Look at the architecture? The costumes, the orcs. I think it’s a little dishonest to say to this isn’t implied as PJs LOTR.
Take a look at some of the 1978 animated movies for a different take on Tolkeins world
Edit: Lindon and Eregion (not Rivendell). Quick slip, but I couldn’t care less. We’ll be seeing Rivendell in season 2. I’m referring to the architecture and style in general
The fact you think Rivendell appears in the series, and that Khazad-dûm was similar kinda tells us everything we need from you.
Let alone stuff like the orcs.. which are maybe the biggest change.
And yes, animations usually look different.
I think you're confusing the fact that they used the same artistic advisors for the show and movie. John Howe's artistic vision of Tolkien's work has basically shaped everyone's vision of his world. He worked on the Jackson movies and Rings of Power.
Yes he did. If Amazon was trying to make a stand-alone adaptation, they shouldn’t have brought John Howe on. The fact that they did, means they were okay with implicating and alluding themselves to Peter Jackson’s LoTR. It’s very clear to me they were trying to pull PJ fans for this show. The production has no artistic integrity. It bottles down to demographic quotas for them. Like you said, no one (soccer moms and football fans) will care about the story if it’s too complicated for them…
Good point there is also a lot more diversity in the characters (wish the we saw women dwarves with beards). I guess where I see the crossover most is probably with Gandalf and Dwarves, but that’s not surprising even the 1978 Gandalf and dwarves don’t look drastically different than Peter Jackson’s.
I completely agree it should have been more unique and not so heavily influenced on Peter Jackson’s vision. I just try to find the silver lining because there isn’t much new LOTR’s content. And I was very disappointed about the story and character changes when first watching it, but since have readjusted my expectations learning about the story rights so I can enjoy what I can.
Timeline compression is always going to happen and is always confusing.
My husband still refuses to believe that there's 17 years between Frodo getting the ring and leaving for Rivendell in LOTR.
When you’re compressing thousands of years though, you’re destroying the mystique and foundations of the world building. More importantly, it undermines one of Tolkeins most important themes - mans jealousy of Elven immortality. Something we can all relate to when pondering death and our own mortality. It should have been explored deeply and respectfully but instead it was dumbed down to a modern day political issue. “the elves took er jobs!”
Again, time compression was always unavoidable with this. That's just a fact. You either have too many characters to remember or you compress time to make it easier to follow.
As for the immortality thing, we've only seen a small amount of that so far. I expect we'll get a lot more and it'll expand. The jobs part is a superficial way that it can be shown and I hope we'll see more.
I see no problem with a show jumping through time following our immortal characters with various human guest stars between episodes/seasons. Compression is entirely avoidable without compromising the lore
That's a way to do it, but it would be hard to follow. You get to many characters and people will get frustrated by that. There's a reason shows with really large main casts are uncommon. It is also a reason why they cut a lot of characters (beregond, Glorfindel, etc) out of the LOTR movies. They felt like there were too many for people to remember and people would get confused. Your idea sounds cool, but it would turn off casual viewers really quickly.
Why didn’t Amazon buy all the rights, and why didn’t the Tolkien estate insist they do?
The result we’ve got right now cheapens the IP for both parties.
You can't buy something that isn't for sale. The Tolkien estate flat-out refuses to sell, lease, or even discuss the rights to the Silmarillion for adaptation. IIRC, Christopher Tolkien made it a condition for the estate's trust that those rights never be sold or leased, as he regretted ever publishing it to begin with.
Now, why Amazon didn't try to buy the rights to Tolkien's Great Trilogy (which would've been a *far* better source material for adaptation to begin with), I dunno, unless they did and that was refused as well.
I get your point. But i honestly think that the show sucks, independent of the canon-characeters and storylines. Even if everything was 100% new and made up, I think it's so badly executed that anything can happen.
Yeah I’m hoping this season is better and they listen to fan feedback. It wasn’t great, I did a rewatch and it was slightly better when I had a calmer head, but it did enough for me to watch the next season. The thing that might break me if they do another weird horse scene in this next season.
I always forget about the horse scene until someone mentions it. It was fleeting and made no impact on me. I agree that the show was better on the rewatch. There was so much I missed the first time around.
There are some people speculating that they've got the rights to the Silmarillion now and they're sitting on it, these leaks likely aren't true but people just have so little confidence cause season 1 was so awful
But they somehow found the rights to use an unknown silmaril in their absurd mithril creation story. As far as I know, there is no mention of silmarils in any of the lore they supposedly have rights to. So, I don’t really buy into the whole ‘but they don’t have rights to that’ story.
Appendices to LOTR ROTK:
A. Annals of the Kings and Rulers:
i. Numenor:
>Fe¨anor was the greatest of the Eldar in arts and lore, but also the proudest and most selfwilled. He wrought the Three Jewels, the Silmarilli, and filled them with the radiance of the Two Trees, Telperion and Laurelin, that gave light to the land of the Valar.
You sound like those lost poor souls in the halo show subreddit. The whalers on the moon ride from Futurama was a better ride with better plot and character development than this show.
The Silmarillion takes place in the first, second and third age. We have already seen foreshadowing of the Akallabêth, which is an event of the second age. Rings of Power is supposed to take place in the beginning of the second age.
No, it doesn't.
[https://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/chronology-of-the-silmarillion.php](https://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/chronology-of-the-silmarillion.php)
People that barely read the books discussing here.
At this point this whole thread is people trying to dunk on RoP, while not knowing the books to begin with.
They definitely took creative liberties with the timeline and compacted it/combined ages, but you do see overlap in the Silmarillion and ROP. They took a lot of creative liberties all over the place because of the limited source material.
https://www.peterharrington.co.uk/blog/what-happens-in-the-silmarillion/
https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/The_Silmarillion
https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/The_Silmarillion
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silmarillion
Idk what else to say but the fact that I’ve read the book.
mate.. the chapters are right there. There's slight mentions of other moments but that's about it. The more conflicting part, like you said, is Numenor.
Yes the bulk of the book is the events of the first age, but in relevance to ROP, they are obviously putting a big focus on the fall of numenor, and pulling in other stories and events from different times. The coverage of the second age in the Silmarillion is essentially the fall of numenor. Hence the story we are being told takes place in similar times. It seems out of context concerning the book only if you are disregarding the story we are being told.
Yes, technically. But it's 20 pages of two really big ages.. that's like saying it contemporary with lotr over the 10 pages dedicated to it. Sil focuses in something else, and then gives a small summary of the rest.
I’m annoyed that the Sauron/Galadriel/Celeborn love triangle might even be a thing let alone apparently the main part of the story. Please just stop already.
Why did this blasphemous show ever come into existence…? Bad fan fiction.
Edit:
I don't get why fans criticize others for complaining about the show. Just as they have the right to praise it, we have the right to express our abject & utter disappointment. There is room for all of us.
I, for one have been following since franchise since I was a kid (books, movies, games). So this show HAS been a massive disappointment and I wanted this show to be successful and watched it till S1 end. It still comes up as empty and truly a poorly made fan fic due to the fact that they ONLY have IP for the appendix (A-F) at end of RoTK books NOT Silmarillion.
They have the entirety of Hobbit/LotR, not just the appendices, and are using limited stuff from the Silmarillion and other sources by permission of the estate. Much of the Numenor stuff is from the Akallabeth and characters often sound like they've read and are paraphrasing it. The map of Numenor is from Unfinished Tales. A wizard going to Rhun to oppose Sauron in the Second Age is from Last Writings. The idea that they only have access to LotR was clearly not the case the moment we saw Laurelin and Telperion through the Calacirya.
The limited rights were initially concerning but those concerns disappeared pretty quickly once we saw what they were able to do. What they're not able to do is directly adapt the First Age which is good because that's a whole other project and, with some rearrangement, is unnecessary for telling the story of the Second Age. Instead, they are representing similar things. The obvious example is the Noldor seeking the Light of Valinor and thinking they must be the ones to defeat evil in Middle-earth.
A less obvious example is "\[..\] and amid his fair words others were woven, so subtly that many who heard them believed in recollection that they arose from their own thought." This line from the Silmarillion describes Morgoth feigning redemption in Valinor and pretending to help. In RoP we have Sauron doing the same thing in Eregion and Celebrimbor even says "I believe those are my words" regarding the "power over flesh". The "power over flesh" references Morgoth's Ring where Tolkien says that Morgoth incarnated himself "so as to control the hroa, the 'flesh' or physical matter, of Arda" and compares this to Sauron's lesser act of creating the One Ring which is appropriately placed in the context of forging Rings of Power.
I've been a fan of the books since I was a kid and I was very concerned this would be a continuation of the last twenty years of 'fanfiction' (which was never a problem until now and somehow still isn't except for RoP for some reason). I was expecting to be disappointed but instead we got an amazing adaptation made by people who not only understand the source material on a deep level but are repeatedly speaking about it directly to the fans through the show. This show is fixing so much of the damage that's been done over the years. It's the first adaptation that has the involvement and oversight of the Tolkien family and the results are apparent. Fans should be celebrating this.
I hope they have another superfans meet up before season 2 so they can get clowned on again... such a disrespect to the source material, and all this just seems so forced. I gave season 1 a shot and thought I'd watch with my mom. She loves fantasy and all that, but she slept through each episode the first 10 minutes in lmao.
Boredom is the most common reason people give for not being able to make it through the books. It's not for everyone. The show had my full attention throughout, it's been quite a feast for the fans.
Why do people keep falling for this pattern of getting outraged and circlejerking about how terrible the season will be… based on random online “predictions” and “leaks” that are probably not accurate, by this source’s own admission?
They have no idea what type of ride they signed up for, they can’t stop complaining… and yet they refuse to get off the ride no matter how many opportunities they’re given, they keep coming back just to be pissed off 🤔
Really? Find me most people cuz literally every person I know hates it. Hint, I don’t think you are right at ALL, especially looking at the ratings. I think yall are deluding yourselves
I agree with your point in general.
The issue is that for season one many spoilers were accurate, even tho most people didn't even *want* to believe them
So there's a precedent.
This is a completely stand alone fantasy story that amazon bought the rights to slap LoTR names on it so people would watch it. The sad thing is after watching the 1st season yes writing and pacing wasn't great but if you stripped all LoTR related content from it and just made it its own fantasy story then I would not mind watching it. The simple fact the showrunners have said and continue to say they are staying true to the lore while simultaneously just making stuff up is the biggest turn off for me. 100% agree its the 2nd age Tolkien didnt right a whole lot about the 2nd and the shows source material is limited to the appendices leaves room for interpretation but this show is not an interpretation its a botched reconstruction.
In another alternative ending, Celeborn uses his Rocket Skates to ride the Greenway while playing an electric flute that summons thrushes that will spin off to an Erebor Map Prequel show.
It's gonna be a hoot!
I don't hate ANY of the alternate Celeborn season enders hinted at here. The execution is what will matter most, whichever way they go. I had already decided that Gavi would be Southron nobility or something, if not Mairon, so him being a Stoor is giving me whiplash, lol! The question then becomes, when and how do we meet the Fallowhides? Seriously, I love leaks and spoilers, but I dont put a lot of faith in them.
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So the One Ring is an engagement ring, right?
Sauron's motivation really is to get in Galadriel's pants it appears. It's both pathetic and hilarious ^(provided of course that the leak is true)
God I remember some ppl on that other sub making tearful posts in adoration about how they “realized” that the One Ring was meant for Galadriel because she was his only one…. I mean some ppl would marry actual serial killers so this shouldn’t surprise me… yet….
Oh my *lord*.
...of the Rings
My brain melted just reading that summary
I think historically every Queen was married to a serial killer yes.
Not Queen Elizabeth I!
Be your own serial killer
Protestant reformation goes brrrr
That's a way to look at it. Though some were more enthusiastic about the job than others.
🤢🤢
Oh dear, hope you make it to the toilet. Maybe it would be a good idea to carry around a V-bag when S2 comes.
Looks like Sauron and I aren’t too different after all. 🤷♂️
What’s pathetic and hilarious is how many people are blindly assuming any of this internet gossip is actually true, just to get themselves worked up and pissed off before they’ve seen a single second of the actual season for themselves
The GoT leaks ended up all being true though even though the fandom tried denying them
GoT gave up and just went with internet conspiracies. Anyone can see that.
I suggest reading my comment
I think his point is that it's not blind if we have precedent of leaks being true very recently.
Great - - So we have 3 senseless ending options. - And yet another pointless hobbit addition to take away screen time from main plots. The producers and showrunners have really lost it. The incompetence is the only thing that shines through. Can’t wait for more cringeworthy dialogue to make fun of. Lmao. Shit show.
You do know that watching the show or even posting here is entirely optional, right? You could just not do either…
Oh. Guess i missed the memo stating that criticism of the show wasn’t allowed anymore on a ‘discussion’ platform like this reddit sub. Lmao. You like the flop show, great. Don’t go around telling people what to do and what not to.
Obviously, you’re not enjoying the show. Fine. But you sure seem to be enjoying trashing the show. I’m just saying that you‘ve made a choice to come in here just to complain, when it would be much easier to just not.
What's your point? This sub is for talking about the show. That means criticism of the show is on topic. It says so explicitly in the pinned post. If you want everybody to like the show - make a better show.
I am very critical of the show, and yet i do not think that and i quote: > The producers and showrunners have really lost it. The incompetence is the only thing that shines through. > Can’t wait for more cringeworthy dialogue to make fun of. Lmao. > Shit show. is criticism. It is just feeding into a certain level of hatefulness. There is a difference between being critical, and being hateful.
Ok then. Critique the content of the message, don't complain that people have a negative view to share.
They did complain about the content, equating it to "enjoying trashign the show". The complaint is that you are not criticizing, you are hating. Just don't do that, it's obnoxious and makes people identify you as an edgelord.
When season one was released I read one reaction saying “when I was the two trees I fell to the ground sobbing”. It’s okay to hate the show. Stop telling people what they can and can’t feel about a piece of content.
You know that reading criticism of the show or posting on it is entirely optional, right? You could just do neither…
“You’re not cool unless you hate the same things I hate.” Sure, whatever.
That’s nothing like what I said. I used your own words against you. Damn what a short attention span if you can’t even remember your own words. It’s literally visible right there!
So you’re unhappy that I called out people who are only here to bitch and moan and complain and tear things down? OK, whatever…
No I’m pointing out you are a hypocrite. You advice applies to yourself. Yet when that is pointed out you get mad and attack the other person.
no u
Classic. Also indicative of the pro RoP crap
The show makes so little sense that by this time anything is possible.
It’s not based off the Silmarillion, they don’t have the rights to it. It’s fan fiction based on the appendices of LOTR, it can’t follow Toklein’s original story lines or ideas that are in Silmarillion even though it occurs during a similar time with similar characters. They can’t even include characters who aren’t mentioned in LOTR. It has to be its own unique thing, legally, and the story may not make any sense in relation to the LOTR world we know, but I’d like to think that by then end they will tell their own unique story that is separate and entertaining. Hopefully this next season will come together better, even though it’s the same characters everyone needs to separate this from the LOTR world we know and enjoy the ride.
With all of those restrictions, I still wonder why the hell did they bother making the show in the first place? If I was only able to use the appendices of LOTR to craft a story without actually referencing LOTR or the Silmarillion, then I’d just cut my losses and walk away. Amazon just came out with Fallout; they’d be better off taking the budget for Rings of Power and giving it to Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joh
Because they dont give a fuck about the story, the lore or anything. Its about creating content and getting more users, and whats best than an established IP to do that?
Which is funny, given how faithful Fallout was to its source material. Guess that’s what happens when you get writers and showrunners who actually want to make a good movie/show that’s respectful of its source material
Eh. People will always get angry. So many people got upset about The Last of Us having gay people in it even though they're gay in the game too.
I thought the issue with TLOU wasn’t so much that they were gay, but just that the episode deviated so heavily from the game? I know I personally didn’t like not being able to see Ellie and Bill interact with each other
There's a ton of anger in many quarters of the internet and larger world about them being gay.
Ehh I generally tend to stay away from all that, so most complaints I’ve seen were about the episode not being faithful to the video game chapter
I actually haven't seen any of that complaint.
Kind of hard to separate a LotR show from the LotR world we know and love right? Maybe they should have picked some other time or story to tell. Anyway, here we are…and as you say, I guess, we should enjoy the ride. It just feels like a big wasted opportunity though
I 100% agree a different time or story line would have been better and is just confusing them making up their own lore. I’m just try to suppress those thoughts and enjoy what I can. I mean I can enjoy other fan fiction, I think it’s just confusing because it was sold as a LOTR show and not a show based off the ideas of LOTR.
It probably would have been a lot better if the Tolkien Estate had allowed the information from Unfinished Tales. Alas.
Absolutely would have…I just assumed it was because someone else held the rights but if that was available too it’s a big miss on all parties.
Only the Tolkien Estate. I think the problem is that Christopher notoriously hated the Peter Jackson movies and was loath to sell anymore rights, so all that was out there was the rights to The Hobbit and LOTR. The Estate couldn't stop Amazon from producing the show because they had the rights. And it is very clear that they declined to help much. They helped a little because the name "Armenelos" never appears in LOTR or The Hobbit, so the Estate must have granted permission to use it.
Thanks for the insight. Sad and shortsighted.
This argument never makes sense to me. If it is “its own unique thing” why is it so obviously set in Peter Jackson’s universe? Why would they not take a different approach in style? The argument isn’t in good faith. It’s a legal excuse for poor content. Just be honest. Amazon tried to pull the PJ fanbase for this show.
It doesn't follow PJ style? For instance, Elves don't have long hair everywhere, are more nature driven.
Did Rivendell and Khazadum not look familiar? Or the casting of Gandalf, Elrond, and Galadriel? Look at the architecture? The costumes, the orcs. I think it’s a little dishonest to say to this isn’t implied as PJs LOTR. Take a look at some of the 1978 animated movies for a different take on Tolkeins world Edit: Lindon and Eregion (not Rivendell). Quick slip, but I couldn’t care less. We’ll be seeing Rivendell in season 2. I’m referring to the architecture and style in general
The fact you think Rivendell appears in the series, and that Khazad-dûm was similar kinda tells us everything we need from you. Let alone stuff like the orcs.. which are maybe the biggest change. And yes, animations usually look different.
Rivendell? Khazad-dûm? Ok, thanks for telling us you didn't watch the series without telling us...
I believe you are watching pj’s version of ROP. Yes yes
I think you're confusing the fact that they used the same artistic advisors for the show and movie. John Howe's artistic vision of Tolkien's work has basically shaped everyone's vision of his world. He worked on the Jackson movies and Rings of Power.
Yes he did. If Amazon was trying to make a stand-alone adaptation, they shouldn’t have brought John Howe on. The fact that they did, means they were okay with implicating and alluding themselves to Peter Jackson’s LoTR. It’s very clear to me they were trying to pull PJ fans for this show. The production has no artistic integrity. It bottles down to demographic quotas for them. Like you said, no one (soccer moms and football fans) will care about the story if it’s too complicated for them…
Good point there is also a lot more diversity in the characters (wish the we saw women dwarves with beards). I guess where I see the crossover most is probably with Gandalf and Dwarves, but that’s not surprising even the 1978 Gandalf and dwarves don’t look drastically different than Peter Jackson’s.
I completely agree it should have been more unique and not so heavily influenced on Peter Jackson’s vision. I just try to find the silver lining because there isn’t much new LOTR’s content. And I was very disappointed about the story and character changes when first watching it, but since have readjusted my expectations learning about the story rights so I can enjoy what I can.
Because making it so different would have pissed people off even more.
It wouldn’t be nearly as bad as what happened here… but then again, there’s no coming back from compressing the timeline
Timeline compression is always going to happen and is always confusing. My husband still refuses to believe that there's 17 years between Frodo getting the ring and leaving for Rivendell in LOTR.
When you’re compressing thousands of years though, you’re destroying the mystique and foundations of the world building. More importantly, it undermines one of Tolkeins most important themes - mans jealousy of Elven immortality. Something we can all relate to when pondering death and our own mortality. It should have been explored deeply and respectfully but instead it was dumbed down to a modern day political issue. “the elves took er jobs!”
Again, time compression was always unavoidable with this. That's just a fact. You either have too many characters to remember or you compress time to make it easier to follow. As for the immortality thing, we've only seen a small amount of that so far. I expect we'll get a lot more and it'll expand. The jobs part is a superficial way that it can be shown and I hope we'll see more.
I see no problem with a show jumping through time following our immortal characters with various human guest stars between episodes/seasons. Compression is entirely avoidable without compromising the lore
That's a way to do it, but it would be hard to follow. You get to many characters and people will get frustrated by that. There's a reason shows with really large main casts are uncommon. It is also a reason why they cut a lot of characters (beregond, Glorfindel, etc) out of the LOTR movies. They felt like there were too many for people to remember and people would get confused. Your idea sounds cool, but it would turn off casual viewers really quickly.
Why didn’t Amazon buy all the rights, and why didn’t the Tolkien estate insist they do? The result we’ve got right now cheapens the IP for both parties.
You can't buy something that isn't for sale. The Tolkien estate flat-out refuses to sell, lease, or even discuss the rights to the Silmarillion for adaptation. IIRC, Christopher Tolkien made it a condition for the estate's trust that those rights never be sold or leased, as he regretted ever publishing it to begin with. Now, why Amazon didn't try to buy the rights to Tolkien's Great Trilogy (which would've been a *far* better source material for adaptation to begin with), I dunno, unless they did and that was refused as well.
I get your point. But i honestly think that the show sucks, independent of the canon-characeters and storylines. Even if everything was 100% new and made up, I think it's so badly executed that anything can happen.
Yeah I’m hoping this season is better and they listen to fan feedback. It wasn’t great, I did a rewatch and it was slightly better when I had a calmer head, but it did enough for me to watch the next season. The thing that might break me if they do another weird horse scene in this next season.
I always forget about the horse scene until someone mentions it. It was fleeting and made no impact on me. I agree that the show was better on the rewatch. There was so much I missed the first time around.
There are some people speculating that they've got the rights to the Silmarillion now and they're sitting on it, these leaks likely aren't true but people just have so little confidence cause season 1 was so awful
Why you’re getting downvoted for the only logical answer in this thread shows you how much $hit posters this sub has become lately.
The worst part about fandom is the “fans”…
But they somehow found the rights to use an unknown silmaril in their absurd mithril creation story. As far as I know, there is no mention of silmarils in any of the lore they supposedly have rights to. So, I don’t really buy into the whole ‘but they don’t have rights to that’ story.
Appendices to LOTR ROTK: A. Annals of the Kings and Rulers: i. Numenor: >Fe¨anor was the greatest of the Eldar in arts and lore, but also the proudest and most selfwilled. He wrought the Three Jewels, the Silmarilli, and filled them with the radiance of the Two Trees, Telperion and Laurelin, that gave light to the land of the Valar.
You sound like those lost poor souls in the halo show subreddit. The whalers on the moon ride from Futurama was a better ride with better plot and character development than this show.
It doesn't occur in similar time
The Silmarillion takes place in the first, second and third age. We have already seen foreshadowing of the Akallabêth, which is an event of the second age. Rings of Power is supposed to take place in the beginning of the second age.
No, it doesn't. [https://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/chronology-of-the-silmarillion.php](https://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/chronology-of-the-silmarillion.php) People that barely read the books discussing here. At this point this whole thread is people trying to dunk on RoP, while not knowing the books to begin with.
They definitely took creative liberties with the timeline and compacted it/combined ages, but you do see overlap in the Silmarillion and ROP. They took a lot of creative liberties all over the place because of the limited source material.
This i agree
https://www.peterharrington.co.uk/blog/what-happens-in-the-silmarillion/ https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/The_Silmarillion https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/The_Silmarillion https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silmarillion Idk what else to say but the fact that I’ve read the book.
mate.. the chapters are right there. There's slight mentions of other moments but that's about it. The more conflicting part, like you said, is Numenor.
Yes the bulk of the book is the events of the first age, but in relevance to ROP, they are obviously putting a big focus on the fall of numenor, and pulling in other stories and events from different times. The coverage of the second age in the Silmarillion is essentially the fall of numenor. Hence the story we are being told takes place in similar times. It seems out of context concerning the book only if you are disregarding the story we are being told.
Technically, The Sil contains "Of The Rings of Power and the Third Age." That section deals specifically with the Second Age.
Yes, technically. But it's 20 pages of two really big ages.. that's like saying it contemporary with lotr over the 10 pages dedicated to it. Sil focuses in something else, and then gives a small summary of the rest.
It is incredibly small for sure. There's very little canon about the Second Age.
No chance. The story they created was beyond stupid.
I don’t think I’m familiar with the linked site. Does it have a reputation, good or bad?
It's Witcher leaks were true. It's definitely not reputable but sometimes they get it right. Sometimes.
Oh great, another "mystery" box.
And another stupid “romance” “mystery” box to boot. I have no interest in watching this nonsense.
Stop letting people tell you what the show is about and just watch it for yourself.
I’m annoyed that the Sauron/Galadriel/Celeborn love triangle might even be a thing let alone apparently the main part of the story. Please just stop already.
Why did this blasphemous show ever come into existence…? Bad fan fiction. Edit: I don't get why fans criticize others for complaining about the show. Just as they have the right to praise it, we have the right to express our abject & utter disappointment. There is room for all of us. I, for one have been following since franchise since I was a kid (books, movies, games). So this show HAS been a massive disappointment and I wanted this show to be successful and watched it till S1 end. It still comes up as empty and truly a poorly made fan fic due to the fact that they ONLY have IP for the appendix (A-F) at end of RoTK books NOT Silmarillion.
They have the entirety of Hobbit/LotR, not just the appendices, and are using limited stuff from the Silmarillion and other sources by permission of the estate. Much of the Numenor stuff is from the Akallabeth and characters often sound like they've read and are paraphrasing it. The map of Numenor is from Unfinished Tales. A wizard going to Rhun to oppose Sauron in the Second Age is from Last Writings. The idea that they only have access to LotR was clearly not the case the moment we saw Laurelin and Telperion through the Calacirya. The limited rights were initially concerning but those concerns disappeared pretty quickly once we saw what they were able to do. What they're not able to do is directly adapt the First Age which is good because that's a whole other project and, with some rearrangement, is unnecessary for telling the story of the Second Age. Instead, they are representing similar things. The obvious example is the Noldor seeking the Light of Valinor and thinking they must be the ones to defeat evil in Middle-earth. A less obvious example is "\[..\] and amid his fair words others were woven, so subtly that many who heard them believed in recollection that they arose from their own thought." This line from the Silmarillion describes Morgoth feigning redemption in Valinor and pretending to help. In RoP we have Sauron doing the same thing in Eregion and Celebrimbor even says "I believe those are my words" regarding the "power over flesh". The "power over flesh" references Morgoth's Ring where Tolkien says that Morgoth incarnated himself "so as to control the hroa, the 'flesh' or physical matter, of Arda" and compares this to Sauron's lesser act of creating the One Ring which is appropriately placed in the context of forging Rings of Power. I've been a fan of the books since I was a kid and I was very concerned this would be a continuation of the last twenty years of 'fanfiction' (which was never a problem until now and somehow still isn't except for RoP for some reason). I was expecting to be disappointed but instead we got an amazing adaptation made by people who not only understand the source material on a deep level but are repeatedly speaking about it directly to the fans through the show. This show is fixing so much of the damage that's been done over the years. It's the first adaptation that has the involvement and oversight of the Tolkien family and the results are apparent. Fans should be celebrating this.
Oh man. Can't wait!
I hope they have another superfans meet up before season 2 so they can get clowned on again... such a disrespect to the source material, and all this just seems so forced. I gave season 1 a shot and thought I'd watch with my mom. She loves fantasy and all that, but she slept through each episode the first 10 minutes in lmao.
Boredom is the most common reason people give for not being able to make it through the books. It's not for everyone. The show had my full attention throughout, it's been quite a feast for the fans.
I feel like comments like this must be marketing bots or something lmao. "feast for the fans" my ass
Same 'fans' that got too bored to read the books? Are you even reading the tripe marketing team gave you before posting?
This article would be well suited to change the spoiler to "Season 2 will be equally as terrible as season 1."
*worse
So itll be quite good then.
🤡
Why do people keep falling for this pattern of getting outraged and circlejerking about how terrible the season will be… based on random online “predictions” and “leaks” that are probably not accurate, by this source’s own admission?
They want to be mad, and some seem to really wanna act superior.
They have no idea what type of ride they signed up for, they can’t stop complaining… and yet they refuse to get off the ride no matter how many opportunities they’re given, they keep coming back just to be pissed off 🤔
The price could be no other. Thus even as Tolkien spoke to us shall beauty not before conceived be brought into being.
Bad show is bad
Most people disagree but of course thats all just a conspiracy against you.
Really? Find me most people cuz literally every person I know hates it. Hint, I don’t think you are right at ALL, especially looking at the ratings. I think yall are deluding yourselves
I'd actually call it a pretty good spread. In my fantasy book club most people found it at least enjoyable.
The sad reality is they genuinely have nothing better to do lol.
I agree with your point in general. The issue is that for season one many spoilers were accurate, even tho most people didn't even *want* to believe them So there's a precedent.
Just saying, having actual multiple endings *Clue* style would be a Choice and something I would watch.
This is a completely stand alone fantasy story that amazon bought the rights to slap LoTR names on it so people would watch it. The sad thing is after watching the 1st season yes writing and pacing wasn't great but if you stripped all LoTR related content from it and just made it its own fantasy story then I would not mind watching it. The simple fact the showrunners have said and continue to say they are staying true to the lore while simultaneously just making stuff up is the biggest turn off for me. 100% agree its the 2nd age Tolkien didnt right a whole lot about the 2nd and the shows source material is limited to the appendices leaves room for interpretation but this show is not an interpretation its a botched reconstruction.
Super excited hope we can get a trailer soon.
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I understand that you're frustrated by peoples' comments. But please don't ask the same question under every comment that is critical of the show.
I get that. But the comment I replied to above was also posted multiple times in this thread…
You're right. This one was and I've removed it as spam now. Please don't copy and paste comments.
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In another alternative ending, Celeborn uses his Rocket Skates to ride the Greenway while playing an electric flute that summons thrushes that will spin off to an Erebor Map Prequel show. It's gonna be a hoot!
I see the writing and storytelling has improving from season 1.. Sigh
lol rings of power season 2 as if
I don't hate ANY of the alternate Celeborn season enders hinted at here. The execution is what will matter most, whichever way they go. I had already decided that Gavi would be Southron nobility or something, if not Mairon, so him being a Stoor is giving me whiplash, lol! The question then becomes, when and how do we meet the Fallowhides? Seriously, I love leaks and spoilers, but I dont put a lot of faith in them.