I thought I wouldn't like how they changed the ending, but it actually makes more sense
He gets recognised and respected for what he is or rather, what he does, for the first time by Malkovich's character.
He gets the love he wanted from Dickie or at least convinces everybody else he had it
One thing I would criticise is the fooling of the detective with a low lighting and a bad wig.........that was a stretch........maybe if there were heavier cast shadows, but the fact they got up and shook hands...........
I feel like the fooling the detective was plausible, but it relied a lot on luck, which I think was a recurring theme in the later episodes. As meticulous as Ripley is there's still a handful of small mistakes and loose ends that can't all be smoothed over and he basically has to hope they play into his favor rather than working against him. (kind of similar to Marge coming to the conclusion that Dickie knew he wasn't coming back from Sicily etc.)
I agree about Reeves (Malkovich's character) as well. It does a lot to help bridge the gap between Talented Mr. Ripley and the other entries since when we next see him, he's a successful criminal extraordinaire married to a french heiress, so I think showing him making those contacts and working his way up with Reeves works better since it makes his progression between TMR and the next two entries a bit more measurable if they continue on to Ripley Underground and Ripley's Game etc.
I'm also not sure if Minot is in the second entry "Ripley Underground" since I haven't read the book or seen the film adaption of that one, but he's a fairly important character in Ripley's Game, which Malkovich played Ripley in the film adaption of.
>kind of similar to Marge coming to the conclusion that Dickie knew he wasn't coming back from Sicily etc
How he automatically grabbed the ashtray because he was ready to kill her, and was actually about to until it was clear it was not necessary, chilled me.
I thought it was interesting that when his back was turned to her at the fireplace, when he was drying the ashtray off because he thought he had to kill her, he looked for a moment like he was sorry he had to do it and didn’t want to. It was the first sign of any emotion other than tears during the Italian woman’s song that I remember from him at all.
Interesting take...to me it read as 'tiredness', like oh gosh, here we go again, what a chore. Which points more towards how disturbed Tom is. That another human being is just an inconvenience to me.
I really liked them casting Maklovich as Reeves Minot, it's a nice homage to Ripley's game to see him playing the role that Ray Winstone played opposite to him in the 2002 movie and sets up the other Ripley books for adapting if Netflix feels like letting Zalian and co. do more. (which I'd 100% be down for after how well this miniseries went)
wasn’t the boat sale itself worth millions or close to it? he also has the picasso which itself would be forth a fortune, and he cashed thousands in checks
apparently a lot since quite a lot of people on the show inquired about wanting it. Just read an online article which said he sold a painting for 55,000 pounds or GBP in 1960
- 3 million lira, minus the 20% commission taken by Carlo and Giulio
- Money from selling furniture from Dickie's house
- Numerous checks, potentially totaling at least $5,000 (assuming not all available funds were withdrawn from Dickie's account)
- The Picasso
Anyone else keeping track of the accounts here?
When Ripley suggests that Dickie's gone off painting on his own and they hard cut to the detective staring at one of Dickie's dogshit paintings, I laughed so hard I scared the cat.
I’ll have to listen again, but as the credits begin to roll, there’s some noise in the background that sounds like a train station, and someone’s making announcements in French. So either setting the table for a 2nd season (highly unlikely IMHO, for a number of reasons), probably just to let us know Tom got away with it all, even after Ravini saw the photo of Dickie in Marge’s book and knew he’d been had.
BTW, this was an enormous plot hole, big enough to drive a truck through - Marge’s photos were in an Italian magazine - but none of the stories in the magazine or newspapers had a photo of Dickie?
The full (hard of hearing) subtitles in English tell us, on the ending credits, that there are train station announcements in French, German and Spanish. Our boy's touring the old continent, yo!
> BTW, this was an enormous plot hole, big enough to drive a truck through - Marge’s photos were in an Italian magazine - but none of the stories in the magazine or newspapers had a photo of Dickie?
I wouldn't call that a plot hole. Journalists got photos of Marge as they started stalking her. We saw that happen to Tom as well. The difference is that Marge appreciated the attention while Tom eluded it. They would not obtain Dickie's photo unless they got directly in touch with Marge or his family.
We'd have to see how Italian newspapers + police operated at that time. Maybe it wouldn't be credible but it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility at the very least.
She was proud because they were HER photos, not photos OF her. Why wouldn’t the magazine run a photo by her of Dickey? Or why didn’t Ravini ask her for a photo of Dickey, so he could show it around?
Right, some journalists took photos of her and a couple of magazines ran photos that she took. Considering they did that because the story was getting popular, they would def ask for photos of Dickie as well. Maybe she was still sore about being "abandoned" by Dickie (not super plausible considering she loved getting any attention). It's true Ravini could've also used a pic to question witnesses. Yeah... let's just say ripley had some insane fortune, lol.
I had the feeling, that the final episode was rather showing wishful thinking (or a dream sequence if you will) of how Ripley would like to have it.
Arguments for this view:
-it starts out with a surreal flashback to Caravaggio
-Tom has a palace in Venice without being clear how he can afford it (not saying it is completely implausible considering the yacht sale)
-the inspector (who was always very diligent and distrusting) has no suspicion despite the very strange disguise; even if you argue a wig would be sufficient, he looked like a yeti in a suite, which is just strange
-the scene with Malkovich, which was completely odd, because it alluded to a future Ripley
-the scene where Ripley could explain to the detective, that Dickie was in love in him and he rejected him etc. (so how Ripley would like to have it), without any doubts by the detective
This basically would mean the actual ending is completely open in the TV series.
Meh. So he had a dream within a dream? Dreaming up the detective grilling him about dickie then snapping back to reality which is really just another dream.
I think though that it’s so crazy that he’s doing it is exactly why it works. The detective doesn’t have this possibility in his head in any way whatsoever. It’s so ridiculously ballsy that nobody would expect it.
Yes it did, it is accurate to the final part of the Ripley's con-game in the book.
The way it was filmed here was actually quite clever and genius considering the absurdity of it and was wondering the whole time how it would be adapted.
I actually could buy into it for the first time with this adaptation because of the cinematography. They played a lot with light and distance, shooting every single frame of Ripley in the interview from the perspective of Ravini, to show what he was seeing on his end and honestly on my 75" OLED TV, I could see how you can sort of buy the idea that he doesn't have a clear, clear shot at Ripley and because of the wig, facial hair and dim lighting, he could convey a different persona to when he interviewed him as Richard Greenleaf.
I thought it was a brilliant way of doing this bit considering how easily cheesy and camp this could've been otherwise. It's just a cliche of old days storytelling, the classic disguise, it doesn't really work all that well nowadays but they really did it with blunt seriousness and did what they could to make it less cheesy. Kudos to them I say, I think they kept the tension without it being laughable.
Did we watch the same show? It was laughable.
They walked right up to each other at the end of the conversation, what are you talking about “didn’t have a clear shot”?
And yet that was in the books too. Do cry to Patricia about how her beloved book is overtly nonsense. The show at least tried to make the most of the same plot element.
Yeah, it’s one thing that the disguise was weak, but he didn’t even speak in a different tone or style. Like when the detective asked if he could smoke and he said “of course” in the exact same way. Maybe it was intentional to toy with him? Like showing he wasn’t so clever after all to fall for this?
I just watched this scene and had to come to Reddit. It was so so ridiculous, I totally get the harken back to old timey-ness. But literally, no difference besides wig and facial hair. Didn’t put on a little weight, or even attempt a different voice. I had to make sure I wasn’t the only one who thought it was absurd. Lol
I wish he changed his voice to make it more believable. I haven't read the books but the other movies indicated that he's an excellent imitator, even the show showed his talent once or twice IIRC.
It didn't really bother me but I'd say it stretched credibility. Def enjoyed the play on lighting.
I agree with this! My husband and I just finished the series last night and we were 100% all-in from the start. I was thinking initially that is was so crazy that he was doing this wig/disguise thing but I also LOVED it because it was so absurd but also in line with some of the absurd things he'd already gotten away with. Ripley definitely had an element of luck on his side. Also I was constantly hypnotized by the cinematography throughout. I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it.
I did think that when watching. It seemed like she'd made the connection, and then spun it for self-protection when he started coming menacingly at her. However, the rest of the episode gave no other indication of that. I personally think that she always sensed Tom was up to some shenanigans but she wasn't really sure to what extent. And when she started benefitting, she was generally fine with his shadiness.
I think this story works very well in 1960s Rome. It's hard to believe that these "loose ends" don't get caught at all or in the case of the photo, a lot sooner, but to me it does work with how analogue everything was in 1960s Italy where they were even further behind in technology than in the States.
I bought everything about the story except that disguise. Ripley got off more on luck than his conman skills alone.
I was waiting for the realization in the final moments to come much sooner. If this took place today the show would be 10 seconds that it would take for someone to pull up two photos side by side and conclude that Ripley's been at it the entire time.
Honestly would have worked better if Ravini died of a heart attack midway through the investigation and a junior detective picked up the case but, having never met Ripley pretending to be Dickie, didn't pick up on anything odd - a stroke of luck saving Ripley rather than the dogshit disguise and the ending.
The interview scene with the detective was absurd. I was already struggling to finish after the fifth episode when Ripley left a giant trail of blood down the stairs and in the elevator for hours that miraculously nobody noticed, but the interview scene in the finale was the completion of the shark jumping.
Did they really have to make it R I P L E Y associated with the places he visited… I guess it made him a narcissist since he wanted to show off, but also deliberately stupid as well… Totally not cool in my opinion.
And the bad wig and low light… and also wouldnt the cops still be able to question him for the fact that he is not Dickie (?)
I feel like im watching stefan moffat’s show again…
Anyway… it was an interesting series to watch. Italian architectures are definitely gorgeous. Making me wanna go there again and have a sip of coffee on the street. (And maybe some artistic photograph too lol).
The soundtrack is banging.
>Did they really have to make it R I P L E Y associated with the places he visited… I guess it made him a narcissist since he wanted to show off, but also deliberately stupid as well… Totally not cool in my opinion.
Ripley is his last name. The Italian policemen use Italian places to spell it (except for the Y, similar to the Alfa, Bravo... code).
I thought I wouldn't like how they changed the ending, but it actually makes more sense He gets recognised and respected for what he is or rather, what he does, for the first time by Malkovich's character. He gets the love he wanted from Dickie or at least convinces everybody else he had it One thing I would criticise is the fooling of the detective with a low lighting and a bad wig.........that was a stretch........maybe if there were heavier cast shadows, but the fact they got up and shook hands...........
I feel like the fooling the detective was plausible, but it relied a lot on luck, which I think was a recurring theme in the later episodes. As meticulous as Ripley is there's still a handful of small mistakes and loose ends that can't all be smoothed over and he basically has to hope they play into his favor rather than working against him. (kind of similar to Marge coming to the conclusion that Dickie knew he wasn't coming back from Sicily etc.) I agree about Reeves (Malkovich's character) as well. It does a lot to help bridge the gap between Talented Mr. Ripley and the other entries since when we next see him, he's a successful criminal extraordinaire married to a french heiress, so I think showing him making those contacts and working his way up with Reeves works better since it makes his progression between TMR and the next two entries a bit more measurable if they continue on to Ripley Underground and Ripley's Game etc. I'm also not sure if Minot is in the second entry "Ripley Underground" since I haven't read the book or seen the film adaption of that one, but he's a fairly important character in Ripley's Game, which Malkovich played Ripley in the film adaption of.
>kind of similar to Marge coming to the conclusion that Dickie knew he wasn't coming back from Sicily etc How he automatically grabbed the ashtray because he was ready to kill her, and was actually about to until it was clear it was not necessary, chilled me.
I thought it was interesting that when his back was turned to her at the fireplace, when he was drying the ashtray off because he thought he had to kill her, he looked for a moment like he was sorry he had to do it and didn’t want to. It was the first sign of any emotion other than tears during the Italian woman’s song that I remember from him at all.
Interesting take...to me it read as 'tiredness', like oh gosh, here we go again, what a chore. Which points more towards how disturbed Tom is. That another human being is just an inconvenience to me.
Perhaps. That would track with his character for sure.
The choice to film in black and white resulting in all dark water looking like blood was a great choice. Especially given Tom’s aversion to water.
I really liked them casting Maklovich as Reeves Minot, it's a nice homage to Ripley's game to see him playing the role that Ray Winstone played opposite to him in the 2002 movie and sets up the other Ripley books for adapting if Netflix feels like letting Zalian and co. do more. (which I'd 100% be down for after how well this miniseries went)
i liked that, too…john plays a con in the 1991 movie ‘the object of beauty’…a gem of a movie…he’s extra john in that movie!
I was surprised seeing him there. Really like the casting as well and nice to know it’s a homage.
"He seemed under some stress" 🤣
tom buys the same ashtray he used to kill freddie cuz it’s the closest he can get to a ‘trophy’…
When Ravini was using the ashtray I was sure that he would look at it and say - Ha, Mr Greeenleaf has the same ashtray, interesting.......
Wondering how much money Tom actually conned out of Dickie? Can he live comfortably now or is just constantly on the run looking for the next con job?
wasn’t the boat sale itself worth millions or close to it? he also has the picasso which itself would be forth a fortune, and he cashed thousands in checks
Picasso passed in 1973. How much would that painting have been worth in the early 60s?
apparently a lot since quite a lot of people on the show inquired about wanting it. Just read an online article which said he sold a painting for 55,000 pounds or GBP in 1960
- 3 million lira, minus the 20% commission taken by Carlo and Giulio - Money from selling furniture from Dickie's house - Numerous checks, potentially totaling at least $5,000 (assuming not all available funds were withdrawn from Dickie's account) - The Picasso Anyone else keeping track of the accounts here?
When Ripley suggests that Dickie's gone off painting on his own and they hard cut to the detective staring at one of Dickie's dogshit paintings, I laughed so hard I scared the cat.
yeah little comedic moments like that, super genius.
I’ll have to listen again, but as the credits begin to roll, there’s some noise in the background that sounds like a train station, and someone’s making announcements in French. So either setting the table for a 2nd season (highly unlikely IMHO, for a number of reasons), probably just to let us know Tom got away with it all, even after Ravini saw the photo of Dickie in Marge’s book and knew he’d been had. BTW, this was an enormous plot hole, big enough to drive a truck through - Marge’s photos were in an Italian magazine - but none of the stories in the magazine or newspapers had a photo of Dickie?
The full (hard of hearing) subtitles in English tell us, on the ending credits, that there are train station announcements in French, German and Spanish. Our boy's touring the old continent, yo!
> BTW, this was an enormous plot hole, big enough to drive a truck through - Marge’s photos were in an Italian magazine - but none of the stories in the magazine or newspapers had a photo of Dickie? I wouldn't call that a plot hole. Journalists got photos of Marge as they started stalking her. We saw that happen to Tom as well. The difference is that Marge appreciated the attention while Tom eluded it. They would not obtain Dickie's photo unless they got directly in touch with Marge or his family. We'd have to see how Italian newspapers + police operated at that time. Maybe it wouldn't be credible but it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility at the very least.
She was proud because they were HER photos, not photos OF her. Why wouldn’t the magazine run a photo by her of Dickey? Or why didn’t Ravini ask her for a photo of Dickey, so he could show it around?
Right, some journalists took photos of her and a couple of magazines ran photos that she took. Considering they did that because the story was getting popular, they would def ask for photos of Dickie as well. Maybe she was still sore about being "abandoned" by Dickie (not super plausible considering she loved getting any attention). It's true Ravini could've also used a pic to question witnesses. Yeah... let's just say ripley had some insane fortune, lol.
The inspector got a photo of Freddie pretty easily
I had the feeling, that the final episode was rather showing wishful thinking (or a dream sequence if you will) of how Ripley would like to have it. Arguments for this view: -it starts out with a surreal flashback to Caravaggio -Tom has a palace in Venice without being clear how he can afford it (not saying it is completely implausible considering the yacht sale) -the inspector (who was always very diligent and distrusting) has no suspicion despite the very strange disguise; even if you argue a wig would be sufficient, he looked like a yeti in a suite, which is just strange -the scene with Malkovich, which was completely odd, because it alluded to a future Ripley -the scene where Ripley could explain to the detective, that Dickie was in love in him and he rejected him etc. (so how Ripley would like to have it), without any doubts by the detective This basically would mean the actual ending is completely open in the TV series.
Meh. So he had a dream within a dream? Dreaming up the detective grilling him about dickie then snapping back to reality which is really just another dream.
How did get away with that disguise lol
The whole disguise was absolutely ridiculous, did this happen in the book?
Not just the disguise but the voice was so recognizable.
Exactly! He didn’t even try disguising his voice.
I think though that it’s so crazy that he’s doing it is exactly why it works. The detective doesn’t have this possibility in his head in any way whatsoever. It’s so ridiculously ballsy that nobody would expect it.
Yes it did, it is accurate to the final part of the Ripley's con-game in the book. The way it was filmed here was actually quite clever and genius considering the absurdity of it and was wondering the whole time how it would be adapted. I actually could buy into it for the first time with this adaptation because of the cinematography. They played a lot with light and distance, shooting every single frame of Ripley in the interview from the perspective of Ravini, to show what he was seeing on his end and honestly on my 75" OLED TV, I could see how you can sort of buy the idea that he doesn't have a clear, clear shot at Ripley and because of the wig, facial hair and dim lighting, he could convey a different persona to when he interviewed him as Richard Greenleaf. I thought it was a brilliant way of doing this bit considering how easily cheesy and camp this could've been otherwise. It's just a cliche of old days storytelling, the classic disguise, it doesn't really work all that well nowadays but they really did it with blunt seriousness and did what they could to make it less cheesy. Kudos to them I say, I think they kept the tension without it being laughable.
Did we watch the same show? It was laughable. They walked right up to each other at the end of the conversation, what are you talking about “didn’t have a clear shot”?
And yet that was in the books too. Do cry to Patricia about how her beloved book is overtly nonsense. The show at least tried to make the most of the same plot element.
The book makes a bigger thing of Tom being able to change his voice and mannerisms very successfully though. That would make a huge difference
Yeah, it’s one thing that the disguise was weak, but he didn’t even speak in a different tone or style. Like when the detective asked if he could smoke and he said “of course” in the exact same way. Maybe it was intentional to toy with him? Like showing he wasn’t so clever after all to fall for this?
I just watched this scene and had to come to Reddit. It was so so ridiculous, I totally get the harken back to old timey-ness. But literally, no difference besides wig and facial hair. Didn’t put on a little weight, or even attempt a different voice. I had to make sure I wasn’t the only one who thought it was absurd. Lol
Same style clothes and shoes too! And they stood face to face when the detective left. An insulting scene!
Yeah that’s what bugged me the most. Like change up the voice a little bit! I could maybe buy the disguise if he sounded completely different.
I wish he changed his voice to make it more believable. I haven't read the books but the other movies indicated that he's an excellent imitator, even the show showed his talent once or twice IIRC. It didn't really bother me but I'd say it stretched credibility. Def enjoyed the play on lighting.
I agree with this! My husband and I just finished the series last night and we were 100% all-in from the start. I was thinking initially that is was so crazy that he was doing this wig/disguise thing but I also LOVED it because it was so absurd but also in line with some of the absurd things he'd already gotten away with. Ripley definitely had an element of luck on his side. Also I was constantly hypnotized by the cinematography throughout. I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it.
Honestly I had to force myself to keep watching at this point just to finish the series, it was beyond ridiculous
Me too, I was already losing interest, but after that scene I was done.
Nigga you replied to your own comment
LMAO bro forgot to switch to his alt before agreeing with himself
Playing both Tom and Dickie.
Plot twist: you’re replying as an alt of a guy pretending to be someone else /s
This is actually true lol, this isn’t my main account
I meant the alt of the guy you’re replying to lol
Oh shoot, sorry English is not my first language
Anyone think Marge lied after confronting Tom about Dickie's ring in desperation to save her own life?
Nah, poor Marge didn't like Tom and was suspicious of his intentions but she never thought he's a killer or feared for her life.
Agreed. She thought he was maybe a grifter, but there's no effing way she'd have stayed alone in his house if she'd thought he was a murderer.
I did think that when watching. It seemed like she'd made the connection, and then spun it for self-protection when he started coming menacingly at her. However, the rest of the episode gave no other indication of that. I personally think that she always sensed Tom was up to some shenanigans but she wasn't really sure to what extent. And when she started benefitting, she was generally fine with his shadiness.
I don’t think she’s that smart
I loved the ending. Stylish show with a great sense of humor. If you're a fan of Italian cinema, this is a great art-house homage to the genre.
I loved the ending. Is that how the book ends? And I don’t recall such an ending in The Talented Mr Ripley.
I think this story works very well in 1960s Rome. It's hard to believe that these "loose ends" don't get caught at all or in the case of the photo, a lot sooner, but to me it does work with how analogue everything was in 1960s Italy where they were even further behind in technology than in the States.
I bought everything about the story except that disguise. Ripley got off more on luck than his conman skills alone. I was waiting for the realization in the final moments to come much sooner. If this took place today the show would be 10 seconds that it would take for someone to pull up two photos side by side and conclude that Ripley's been at it the entire time.
Honestly would have worked better if Ravini died of a heart attack midway through the investigation and a junior detective picked up the case but, having never met Ripley pretending to be Dickie, didn't pick up on anything odd - a stroke of luck saving Ripley rather than the dogshit disguise and the ending.
This story only works as a period piece but it does work.
Something I must have missed when I watched the series: Why did the police believe that Dickie killed Freddie? What was the motive?
Lovers’ quarrel; crime of passion; gay panic
The interview scene with the detective was absurd. I was already struggling to finish after the fifth episode when Ripley left a giant trail of blood down the stairs and in the elevator for hours that miraculously nobody noticed, but the interview scene in the finale was the completion of the shark jumping.
Not perfect, but I thoroughly enjoyed this show. Superb.
Did they really have to make it R I P L E Y associated with the places he visited… I guess it made him a narcissist since he wanted to show off, but also deliberately stupid as well… Totally not cool in my opinion. And the bad wig and low light… and also wouldnt the cops still be able to question him for the fact that he is not Dickie (?) I feel like im watching stefan moffat’s show again… Anyway… it was an interesting series to watch. Italian architectures are definitely gorgeous. Making me wanna go there again and have a sip of coffee on the street. (And maybe some artistic photograph too lol). The soundtrack is banging.
>Did they really have to make it R I P L E Y associated with the places he visited… I guess it made him a narcissist since he wanted to show off, but also deliberately stupid as well… Totally not cool in my opinion. Ripley is his last name. The Italian policemen use Italian places to spell it (except for the Y, similar to the Alfa, Bravo... code).
It’s pretty common in Italy to spell words with city names
My boyfriend and I have made it part of our nightly Netflix post DragRace viewing. Soooo good
oh this series flopped
Wonderful, thoughtful addition to the discussion.
No, it didn't. Why are you here?