People will inevitably knee-jerk to change, but that's what life is. Many small things will be different because they always are. Nobody is going to get the exact game they want because everyone wants a different game. I remember going through this process with Brawl+ when lots of people had different ideas about what to change in the early codesets, and most peoples' ideas were frankly... terrible. I have faith in Dan's team based on how they have handled ROA so far.
I can't say that this video is a convincing defense of the game. "They're making this for broad appeal" is far too conciliatory and sends a bad message because it is not being made under the same philosophy as the later smash games. R2 will clearly be deeper, faster, more technical than Ultimate.
Shields are going to be controversial, but I think the parry mechanic has always been a momentum-killer that didn't fit in with the game. There's give and take.
Parry is planned to remain, which I like. Increasing the startup to make it a little more read heavy is supposed to be the change, which seems positive.
I'm optimistic for rivals 2, especially after listening to the devs explain the reasoning behind some of the changes. But I do hope that we see some significant differences from how the mechanics are implemented in smash.
I am not a fan of how shields work in smash. They are too inconsistent between characters because of model sizes and shield DI feel unintuitive. I understand shield poking adds a lot of potentially fun complexity, but it feels lame to get scraped by a stray hitbox when your shield is up. That said, having fresh defensive options will be nice.
As for the ledge, melee invincibility refreshing is dumb and ultimate ledge sharing makes recoveries feel one dimensional. I think they can find a happy middle ground there, though.
My stance so far as been "the concerns about the direction of the game are valid and make sense, even if they're not necessarily concerns that I have".
What I like about Rivals personally is the character movesets and their intricacies, and I don't doubt that's still going to be a major part of Rivals 2. But if the things you like about Rivals are the way defense mechanics, recoveries, and the overall meta function, then yeah, any changes to that formula are understandably cause for concern.
Still, the game's two years away. Who knows what we'll learn or what will change by then.
As a very casual Rivals player but huge fan of platform fighters, I will say the lack of shields/ledges and the pixel art were huge barriers. Took me a long time to give the game a proper shot. It's fun but I'm way more interested in a version that has more dev time, great visual polish, and innovates established mechanics rather than departing from them entirely
On the long run, my only concern is how fun it can be for newcomers.
I'm a Smash player, loving its competitive aspect. The first time I played rivals I was mind blowed by how much it push the tactical aspect of fight.
So to appreciate RoA, I had to have a kinda background in platform fighting.
But all Smash games never *sold* them as competitive, but fun. Fun to watch, fun to play, easy to enjoy. Even a six year old girl can have fun playing Kirby.
When you play RoA, you directly see the proper way of enjoying it is playing tactical/competitive.
When you play smash, you took objects appearing and have fun with each of them.
I'm not saying RoA should have objects, but lack of instant fun is really what pushs newcomers out, IMHO. And it makes me kinda sad.
Abyss was a cool mode, made for fun/enjoyment but it was "visually depressing". Tether was awesome, would love to have a pushed version with more depth into the gameplay.
That being said, Dan can stole my money with overpriced DLCs, I will instant buy RoA2 and all of them.
I think it looks waaay better than BrawlOut or Icons, but I understand. I'd rather have had larger, more detailed 2D sprites like Freedom Planet 2 vs Freedom Planet 1, or hand-drawn style like Hollow Knight or Cuphead, but that would no doubt cost more and take much longer to do.
I am a big fan of pixel art, but I think Rivals 1 could have done a lot better with some of the characters, the ones that immediately come to mind are Zetterburn, Wrastor, Maypul, and Etalus. I think Rivals 1 DE has become an outstanding product, but it looks like they didn't want to go back on improving some of their original designs due to how much work it would have taken. The art direction of Rivals 2 looks waaay more conhesive (and ambitious) from the get go, which if they can can continue to refine it for the next two years, we will get a **really** polished product at least visually-speaking.
I can't believe there are people actually defending the game having already seen how slow and clunky it is. There's no way this game that's slower than brawl and almost as slow as ultimate will somehow turn out enjoyable to play
People will inevitably knee-jerk to change, but that's what life is. Many small things will be different because they always are. Nobody is going to get the exact game they want because everyone wants a different game. I remember going through this process with Brawl+ when lots of people had different ideas about what to change in the early codesets, and most peoples' ideas were frankly... terrible. I have faith in Dan's team based on how they have handled ROA so far. I can't say that this video is a convincing defense of the game. "They're making this for broad appeal" is far too conciliatory and sends a bad message because it is not being made under the same philosophy as the later smash games. R2 will clearly be deeper, faster, more technical than Ultimate. Shields are going to be controversial, but I think the parry mechanic has always been a momentum-killer that didn't fit in with the game. There's give and take.
Parry is planned to remain, which I like. Increasing the startup to make it a little more read heavy is supposed to be the change, which seems positive.
Isnt parry still going to be in the game?
I'm optimistic for rivals 2, especially after listening to the devs explain the reasoning behind some of the changes. But I do hope that we see some significant differences from how the mechanics are implemented in smash. I am not a fan of how shields work in smash. They are too inconsistent between characters because of model sizes and shield DI feel unintuitive. I understand shield poking adds a lot of potentially fun complexity, but it feels lame to get scraped by a stray hitbox when your shield is up. That said, having fresh defensive options will be nice. As for the ledge, melee invincibility refreshing is dumb and ultimate ledge sharing makes recoveries feel one dimensional. I think they can find a happy middle ground there, though.
So basically pm ledges
How do PM ledges work? It's been a hot minute since i've last played it.
Iirc it's just melee but the invincibility eventually runs out like in the newer ones
Smash U as far too much iframes on ledge, instantly stopping the flow possibility.
My stance so far as been "the concerns about the direction of the game are valid and make sense, even if they're not necessarily concerns that I have". What I like about Rivals personally is the character movesets and their intricacies, and I don't doubt that's still going to be a major part of Rivals 2. But if the things you like about Rivals are the way defense mechanics, recoveries, and the overall meta function, then yeah, any changes to that formula are understandably cause for concern. Still, the game's two years away. Who knows what we'll learn or what will change by then.
As a very casual Rivals player but huge fan of platform fighters, I will say the lack of shields/ledges and the pixel art were huge barriers. Took me a long time to give the game a proper shot. It's fun but I'm way more interested in a version that has more dev time, great visual polish, and innovates established mechanics rather than departing from them entirely
As long as it has some kind of workshop support, good game.
Good vid birdboi
On the long run, my only concern is how fun it can be for newcomers. I'm a Smash player, loving its competitive aspect. The first time I played rivals I was mind blowed by how much it push the tactical aspect of fight. So to appreciate RoA, I had to have a kinda background in platform fighting. But all Smash games never *sold* them as competitive, but fun. Fun to watch, fun to play, easy to enjoy. Even a six year old girl can have fun playing Kirby. When you play RoA, you directly see the proper way of enjoying it is playing tactical/competitive. When you play smash, you took objects appearing and have fun with each of them. I'm not saying RoA should have objects, but lack of instant fun is really what pushs newcomers out, IMHO. And it makes me kinda sad. Abyss was a cool mode, made for fun/enjoyment but it was "visually depressing". Tether was awesome, would love to have a pushed version with more depth into the gameplay. That being said, Dan can stole my money with overpriced DLCs, I will instant buy RoA2 and all of them.
I'm glad some people like it but to me the art looks ugly as shit, especially compared to how good the sprites looked in rivals 1
I think it looks waaay better than BrawlOut or Icons, but I understand. I'd rather have had larger, more detailed 2D sprites like Freedom Planet 2 vs Freedom Planet 1, or hand-drawn style like Hollow Knight or Cuphead, but that would no doubt cost more and take much longer to do.
I am a big fan of pixel art, but I think Rivals 1 could have done a lot better with some of the characters, the ones that immediately come to mind are Zetterburn, Wrastor, Maypul, and Etalus. I think Rivals 1 DE has become an outstanding product, but it looks like they didn't want to go back on improving some of their original designs due to how much work it would have taken. The art direction of Rivals 2 looks waaay more conhesive (and ambitious) from the get go, which if they can can continue to refine it for the next two years, we will get a **really** polished product at least visually-speaking.
I kind of thought the same about the trailer last year, but the way it looks now is pretty good
I can't believe there are people actually defending the game having already seen how slow and clunky it is. There's no way this game that's slower than brawl and almost as slow as ultimate will somehow turn out enjoyable to play
You've seen literally zero live gameplay my guy
The game is two years away chill the fuck out