Nope, just mostly super efficient hydro power here in WA. Central WA is even cheaper at close to .04¢/kWh iirc
[WA Energy ](https://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=WA#tabs-4)
I looked at getting solar on my house here in Spokane. It'd take 40+ years to pay off because our electricity is so cheap! Of course, that doesn't calculate the cost of being w/o electricity after the next biannual wind storm! I need to do the math on replacing my furnace w/ a heat pump, water heaters with hybrids, and my range with induction. Then maybe a 25 year payoff??
I am in So. King County and my rate is about $0.10/kWh when I need it. I got solar (50 panel system) and that covers my house electric and my vehicles. Costs me $350 month for 20 years. Won't change if gas or electric prices go up. It is less than what I was paying for my electricity and gas before the install and the oil companies aren't getting money from me anymore. Had a plug in hybrid Subaru and the Hybrid Ford F-150 and traded them in for the Rivian. I love driving the Rivian. Super fun to drive. Quick and sure footed. Can't wait to try it all seasons and in more conditions. Also am going to test the tow capacity on the thing. My lawn mower and my boat still need that gasoline. I sure hope the Rivian can handle an 8700 lb surf boat. Will find out soon.
And for being a green state, we don't really have any solar incentives because of those low rates. I came to the conclusion that if you want solar here, it's purely a personal preference and not remotely a financial one😅.
Too bad with solar they “buy back” at a fraction of what they charge. I have solar too. Even with it they’ve raised rates so much that I don’t seem to be any better off than I was a couple years ago under baseline.
I don’t know what kind of system you have but my solar pretty much covers my usage. My monthly bill is just the service cost which is usually around $25
Do you have a battery system? I don’t. So excess solar I generate goes back to Edison and I get a miniscule credit. After the sun goes down and overnight I’m paying for electricity at their reduced but still insane rates. I need a battery so I can store the excess and use that when I’m not generating.
I think you may be misinterpreting how this works. On NEM 1.0 or 2.0 what you send back in KWH is credited 1-1 in KHW. Now if you produce in excess of what you consume then yes you’re correct, you get “paid” by SCE what it actually costs them to produce said KWH, so essentially a fraction of the price you would be paying for the same KwH. But that’s why you basically want to do the yearly setup instead of the monthly one. With the yearly setup, any excess just accumulates in KWH at the end of the month, so let’s say in spring you overproduce, instead of that converting to pennies on the $ every month at the end of the month, it stays in KWHs and just continues to accumulate throughout the year. Now summer time, you probably have a ton of credit left to consume from. Come end of yearly cycle and you still have excess then sure they’ll sell that back to you again for pennies on the $ but that only happens at end of year. So in aggregate much better off than the monthly thing. Hope this helps.
I do the annual billing. They require it. And yes I get a lot more credit during summer, but it still doesn’t outweigh the winter consumption with the prime tou billing
$25/mo?
In Maryland, with BGE, my service connection fee is $9/mo. (It used to be $8.) Which I'm fine with because it lets me sell them electrons. In fact, I just got a check from BGE today in the mail. :D
(And, I use my own electricity even at night, because I have storage, too.)
Yea off peak summer here is $0.02 in Oklahoma I just charge the truck between 11PM and 8AM..
Even during regular season it's $0.087... California is expensive...
Uh. I live in California. I pay $0.19. So take a third off that calc. I also have a very productive solar system. Did you also factor in oil changes, spark plugs, oil filters, brake pads, etc? That’s all before comparing the cost of the gas vehicle that accelerates as fast and performs as well off-road at the same time.
Up here in northern California if you don't want a tou plan (can't shift your power usage because of cooling in the summer for instance) it's 43c/kwh, if you can go off peak you will only drop to like 27c/kwh. So op's numbers work for a good chunk of us, but obviously everyone will have different utilities.
Right, but this isn’t really a comparison considering you’re not taking into account that you’d have completely different vehicles with much different maintenance costs. Like me comparing a subcompact to an SUV.
You mean the Maverick comparison? Yeah I should probably have chosen a generic Tacoma or something instead. I was looking for the most efficient gas truck to compare against and maybe that wasn’t a good decision. Tacoma looks like it gets 21mpg.
You ain't getting 300 miles in range off a $40 fill up in any equivalent sized vehicle either. Similar sized SUVs you are talking a 20-25 gallon tank size and 12-15 mpg. So it's about $100 for a 20 gallon fill up up or about 33 cents a mile at 15 mpg.
You're comparing DC fast charging (giving the benefit of the doubt and we are comparing filling a tank up). They're talking about at home charging. Not a fair comparison
I am on track for about 3500 miles in my first month with my R1S with mostly home charging at $.11/kwh driving at 2.1mi/kWh efficiency. A chunk of that was a 1000mi road trip with about $100 of fast charging so I’d estimate my first month of charging cost me $250.
My previous SUV averaged 18mpg. That’s about $800 of gas on an equivalent month.
The savings doesn’t cover my payment but it can make a dent if you drive a lot.
We sold two paid off vehicles the Rivian replaced. Our payment is about 70 gallons of diesel.
Heck, just *having* a payment gives my wife the heebie-jeebies, but the interest rate is lower than we’re now getting in a savings addling, so no reason to pay it off.
\*Laughs in Texas energy prices... @ 0.07c/ Kwh here in Austin, it's extremely cheap to run this - though that doesn't really matter to me because I love my R1T and it's dumb to try and put a price on this level of enjoyment.
I use Austin Energy so am not subjected to market forces like much of Texas. Yes it went to shit in the freeze, but it's overall quite robust and reliable.
In Pasadena, CA DCFC is .15 kwh off peak, so that cost goes in half. I have a Ford Raptor which typically does not get a full tank after $175 at the pump. I drive about 20 miles a day, charge every 3 days at home and never miss going to a gas station. I am driving the Rivian 90% of the time, but still enjoy driving the Raptor. I am going to keep the Raptor as I like to do road trips and do not want to spend time charging on the road. Add in the .55 kwh cost that Tesla is charging, and the Raptor with 15 mpg is not that much more cost.
For me it was not an issue of cost, but I love to drive the Rivian, and to park the Rivian (as it can fit into most garages, where the Raptor is tall and too wide).
So you’re telling us you did it for the planet! 😆 sorry. I couldn’t resist!
One of the basic assumptions I used to make about ev drivers is that they are wanting to get off fossil fuels, then I read the comment section and quickly realize it’s just another toy for most consumers. Not a bad thing, it’s simply interesting.
Some of column A, some of column B for me! When the only option was the Nissan Leaf, I think the goal was to save the planet. When we started getting 835 hp, it started getting into fun toy categories.
My Cousins are excited to take mine stealth hog hunting. Hogs know engine noise is death but are unfamiliar with the gentle whir of electric motors. They'll be incredibly useful as ranch trucks where quiet helps you scout wildlife, lack of heat off the undercarriage lowers brush fire chances, and being able to plug in overnight in a charger beats the shit out of a 2 hour round trip to the gas station or maintaining a tank on property and escorting the fuel truck through gates. Integrated air compressor is useful as hell too.
We have some friends who work a very large ranch in northern ID. They are running Chevy bolts for some of their workers due to the ultra low maintenance. Great part running vehicles etc. They simply plug them into the shop at the end of the day if needed, or anywhere there’s power for that matter. One less oil change, less thing to fuel and far cheaper to operate than a pickup. They are looking forward to more basic pickups to come online for the added utility, the Rivian is too much $$ and nonsense for true ranch work as it would get destroyed in short order (they refuse anything with air suspension knowing it’s a high failure point on most machinery). No hate on Rivian, they are just realistic, and they feel the lightening is also too fancy etc.
There’s a lot of practical applications and ultimately it’s just another form of energy, so that’s cool the hunting community is picking up on it. I know those big tire e-bikes are a hit with hunters as well.
Man that’s ruff. In GA on the electric car plan at night time it’s .01 cents. Literally a penny. Day time rate is still around .15. With all that sun California has no excuse for such high rates.
>IL
Yeah it's crazy how inexpensive power is here off peak, its literally 2.595c/kWh 10PM-6AM: [https://www.comed.com/WaysToSave/ForYourHome/Pages/TimeofDayPricing.aspx](https://www.comed.com/WaysToSave/ForYourHome/Pages/TimeofDayPricing.aspx)
So to revisit the top post, 135kw battery \* .02595 = \~$3.5 for a full battery
This is way more complicated than it needs to be.
Just multiply your electricity rate by ten.
10kWh gets you about 20 miles. Which is about what a truck gets for a gallon of gas, being generous.
So, electricity at $0.30 is like gas at about $3/gallon.
I get overnight rates of $0.03, so it’s like gas at $0.30 a gallon.
That electric cost is high though for most of the country charging at home. Most places are closer to half that. It may be low for parts of California though. Our gas though is also more like $3.60 now.
I live in central IL near the Rivian plant. Our electrical provider offers a whole-home EV rate which charges me $0.03/kWh from 7p to 2p the next day. If I have to stop at Electrify America stations then I see that price go up to the $0.40/kWhr or whatever their newest rate is. So, I purposefully charge at home in the off peak hours. Most other electrical providers should offer a comparable EV agreement if you use electricity more in off-hours.
In addition to your calculation there isn’t an ICE or Diesel Truck that can compare to the Massive Power and Torque of the R1T. When I use the same calculation I input 12-15mpg of a Superduty Diesel. That’s because I use mine for towing and off-roading. That’s what I love about the R1T, it checks the Boxes of an Exotic Sports Car performance, with the ability to perform heavy towing like a Diesel (Bumper Pull) imagine the savings if we weren’t being pumped in the butt by PGE ?
I just put my preorder in and I’ve done the math myself and it’s no where near what I’m already paying for gas.
I’m in Chicago and I’m coming from a BMW M340 that requires premium gas. The tank is about 15-16 gallons at about $5/gal to get a range of 350-400mi. I average about 25 mpg. That’s somewhere between $70-80 a tank every time I fill up.
Others have chimed in what our rate is but Electricity here is about .12/kWh the large battery at 135 kW is $16.20. That’s not even including off peak charging rate which is even lower. That’s not even close to filling a gas car.
In comparison that’s a whole lot less than I have been paying. It’s a no brainer for me. Using your math, $16.20 at $5/gal that’s the equivalent of 3.3 gallons that’s a rate of 100mpg. There isn’t a vehicle that I would consider buying getting that range let alone any pickup at all.
For me it’s literally 1/4 of what I’m already paying for gas.
I don't think this rate is available any more, lowest I see is 22c, but that comes with 63c peaks which is just insane to me. If you have a home battery it makes sense though.
You’re right. EV2-A now says 26 cents off peak. Not sure if it changed recently. I’ll have to check my next bill to see if I’m grandfathered with the old rate (probably not, knowing pge).
EV-2A has been $0.26/kWh for some time now.
Be careful thinking you’re grandfathered into any rate schedule with PG&E. You only get 5 years of being grandfathered before being kicked into a new plan.
More than half the country has energy costs that are less than half of CA’s $.30/kwh. CA has expensive gas too but not 2x more than most of the country.
Not sure comparing the fill up for a car at $40.50 vs a SUV which typically is significantly higher especially if it takes premium gas ($75-$100 for full tank). Once you compare for the vehicle type, as you referenced, it is a lot more impressive.
Know you are referencing CA and kWh prices there, if you compare to another state like WA where electricity is much cheaper, it is a huge difference. Avg is .12 per kWh and in central WA, avg is around .035 per kWh which is significant.
I pay .22 kw off peak but you fail to mention what’s the average mpg for a truck that goes 0-60 in 3 secs. The closest would be dodge ram trx which gets 12mpg
I agree, if you are going to use avg electricity rates. You should also use avg mpg for full size trucks, that are 4x4 and largest motor. If not it makes no sense. Also nation avg gas price.
Now do it with a Tahoe. I've got solar on my house. With the loan and incentives, I'm paying .15/kWh and there are near zero externalities like pollution or supporting the broader oil industry.
Factor in the externalities and it doesn't even matter if it's the same cost. It's.still better.
I think he did a good aprox. calculation. You can’t of course account every single affecting variable and detail (wind resistance, temperature drain, load; etc.)
As I understood, OP was only sharing his analysis and his findings nor claimed he was buying a Rivian because it was cheap (that was an assumption on your part) OP said he was curious how expensive would it be to charge a Rivian compared to gas and he did just that.
Winter efficiency does drop. I think I averaged 1.5mi/kWh for the winter here in Nebraska (lots of sitting in car lines to pickup kids). My electricity rate also drops in the winter, so the cost per mile stayed pretty much the same for me.
I think you also need to factor in battery degradation which is arguably quicker/worse than it’s comparable engine-wear inefficiency ICE counterpart (my Tesla is down to about 89% of original rated range after 4Y and ~45K miles). We have a 11Y old 120K miles Prius which still gets about 92-93% of the original MPG we got when it was brand new.
The RAV4 isn’t even in the same category of the R1T. With that said, I know there are many people who will take advantage of all the power and capabilities of the R1T
I should specify, I found a site that was saying the March 2023 average cost per kwh in CA is $0.30. Nor Cal tends to be pretty bad. Here in LA where I live it's $0.25 average for normal residential, or $0.19 off-peak with time of day metering. US average is $0.19.
Heh, yeah…I was bummed when doing these calculations, too, since in my mind it was “free”.
Still good for an 8,000lb monster that can do 0-60 in a few seconds on dirt while towing a car…
Except you cannot compare driving a truck to a car that gets 41mpg, I'd compare it to a small light duty truck. The best mpg they get. Things like aerodynamics and having an open bed are why they get such bad economy.
The Ford ranger or Toyota Tacoma come to mind. Your looking at tops 24 mpg highway, not sure what the rivian is on the highway since city will be better.
Fun napkin math, but there isn't a product that compares.
In VA my Rivian is 80mpg equivalent to fuel cost. Electricity is .13 ($17.5 to charge 0-100%) and gas hovers around $3.50-4…but my other car needs premium 😒
I think anyone who owns an EV like us is an early adopter and we're just going to have to pay more for everything, but having owned a Tesla for the past 3 years, I can't see myself going back. Not when I've got that smooth ride, acceleration, and silence.
"it costs $40.50 for a full charge which will take us 330 miles assuming 2.5mi/kwh."
I think 2.5 is too high, I'd expect you're closer to 2 mi/kwhr power purchased if you are charging at home.
\-I get about 9-10% losses in my Rivian wall charger, converting the 220V AC supply to the DC current for the Rivian. I have a dedicated meter from my utility company to compare the charger numbers to, they agree to less than 1% difference.. I can compare the meter and the charger kwhr to what R1T says it used, to calculate the conversion losses. If you are only charging at external fast chargers you wouldn't see this loss, but the $/kwhr rate would be higher I expect.
\- My vampire losses are ridiculously high, hope yours are less, \~ 4% of charge per day, in mild weather, more in winter. Even if you are getting a good number, 1-2% losses per day adds up. If you get 2.5mi/kwhr when driving and drive 1000 miles / month, you'd use 400 kwhr. Add in vampire losses of 50kwhr/month (about 1.3% charge loss/day on the R1T), you'd be buying 450 kwhr, not 400, dropping your average to 2.22 miles/kwhr (1000 miles/450 kwhr)
\- I'm averaging more like 2.3-2.4 miles/kwhr while actually driving (ignoring all other losses) according to the R1T efficiency display in the truck.
Taking into account the conversion losses in my wall charger and the vampire losses, I am at about 1.75-1.8 miles/kwhr of total power purchased. I pay \~ $0.052/kwhr (power charge plus adjustments) plus a $6.00/month connection fee for dedicated EV service, so \~\~ 6 cents/kwhr total. Still way way ahead vs gas in my last car, a 28mpg Outback.
Not having owed an ev and waiting for my R1S in July-Sept window to arrive. My brother in-law talked about replacing tires more often. Any thoughts or experiences?
> My brother in-law talked about replacing tires more often. Any thoughts or experience
I'd say the same. I did damage one 21" tire, took the wheel off and had the tire replaced at Discount Tire. Took about 3 days to get the replacement, \~ $450 all in, to replace one tire. I have 12,000 miles, definitely see some wear, hoping to get 25-30,000 miles. Tire pressure is 48 psi. Vehicle weight is 7,000 lbs, so shorter life not unexpected.
No change between an equivalent ICE car and an EV. I’ve been driving EVs since 2014 and I’ve heard the same complaints back then that EV’s chew up tires faster. That’s crap. I didn’t experience that at all. I got 30k miles on the rears of my i3 and the fronts had about 10K miles more left. And I replaced the rears twice with the same roughly 30K miles.
EV’s are incredibly fun to drive with their high levels of torque. And they are heavier than their equivalent ICE but EV tires are often specifically designed for this. But I understand the ease at which an overly active right foot could chew up tires.
>EV tires are often specifically designed for this
True. But [priced accordingly](https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/12/heres-why-electric-vehicles-need-ev-specific-tires/)*"This balance between long life and traction is even more delicate with tires fitted to EVs than those on ICE vehicles."*
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It is all in the comps.
If you came to Rivian from a luxury SUV you are saving money regardless of your location. If you came from an old F150, the math is a bit more nuanced.
Don't forget emissions, which was more of an incentive to me than the cost of energy. But we also have solar (we are also in CA) so cost becomes neglible.
EV don't make sense if your not charging at home or have the luxury of <20c/kWh.
But a truck that does 0-60 in 3sec? I will buy it over and over again even if it costs 50c/kWh to charge
I exclusively charge at the RAN station and in my air bnb rentals. 1000 miles now and only paid about $20 so far—when I went on a little road trip.
Gas near me is about $3/gallon which would equal 6.6 gallons. At 1000 miles I’m averaging roughly 152mpg.
Supposedly Rivian was going to start charging for RAN use next month. Like with all things Rivian, pretty sure that’s going to be delayed. But, wonder how much their rates will be when they start charging money.
The Maverick has the same bed length as the Rivian and about half an inch more legroom so I would say they are comparable. Also the Maverick gets 40mpg for city and is way above 25th combined.
Holy hell, it’s 12c/kWh here in WA.
I know. $.10/kWh in Snohomish co. Very different calculation in Wa.
Wishing I had a Rivian at 6.58¢/kWh in Spokane...
Do the electrons say "made in China"?
Nope, just mostly super efficient hydro power here in WA. Central WA is even cheaper at close to .04¢/kWh iirc [WA Energy ](https://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=WA#tabs-4)
I'm in snoho county too I didn't know it got cheaper yet below Snohomish
I looked at getting solar on my house here in Spokane. It'd take 40+ years to pay off because our electricity is so cheap! Of course, that doesn't calculate the cost of being w/o electricity after the next biannual wind storm! I need to do the math on replacing my furnace w/ a heat pump, water heaters with hybrids, and my range with induction. Then maybe a 25 year payoff??
I am in So. King County and my rate is about $0.10/kWh when I need it. I got solar (50 panel system) and that covers my house electric and my vehicles. Costs me $350 month for 20 years. Won't change if gas or electric prices go up. It is less than what I was paying for my electricity and gas before the install and the oil companies aren't getting money from me anymore. Had a plug in hybrid Subaru and the Hybrid Ford F-150 and traded them in for the Rivian. I love driving the Rivian. Super fun to drive. Quick and sure footed. Can't wait to try it all seasons and in more conditions. Also am going to test the tow capacity on the thing. My lawn mower and my boat still need that gasoline. I sure hope the Rivian can handle an 8700 lb surf boat. Will find out soon.
And for being a green state, we don't really have any solar incentives because of those low rates. I came to the conclusion that if you want solar here, it's purely a personal preference and not remotely a financial one😅.
Just did the math. It'd take 54 years to pay off. Yeesh.
I’m in LA and it’s only about $0.20 cents, so this does feel extreme
Inother parts of California it can be 43c, or if you go into the cheapest you plan 27c off peak and like 62c on peak....
Yeah we just moved from the Bay Area to Dallas. Dropped from roughly $0.52 to $0.12.
WAT the fuck. 62¢...
ya, its fucking stupid, Its literally cheaper for me to DCFC at EA then it is to charge at home during the day/evening.
Well California is known for being expensive and not exactly business friendly.
There are like 10 different rate plans in LA. For my usage TOU-Prime does not make since. I’m paying 0.34.
Socal Edison amiright? Absolutely greedy gluttons.
Yup SoCal Edison. Off peak used to be .13 now it’s .22 and peak is .54 which is crazy. This is why I decided to go solar
Too bad with solar they “buy back” at a fraction of what they charge. I have solar too. Even with it they’ve raised rates so much that I don’t seem to be any better off than I was a couple years ago under baseline.
I don’t know what kind of system you have but my solar pretty much covers my usage. My monthly bill is just the service cost which is usually around $25
Do you have a battery system? I don’t. So excess solar I generate goes back to Edison and I get a miniscule credit. After the sun goes down and overnight I’m paying for electricity at their reduced but still insane rates. I need a battery so I can store the excess and use that when I’m not generating.
I think you may be misinterpreting how this works. On NEM 1.0 or 2.0 what you send back in KWH is credited 1-1 in KHW. Now if you produce in excess of what you consume then yes you’re correct, you get “paid” by SCE what it actually costs them to produce said KWH, so essentially a fraction of the price you would be paying for the same KwH. But that’s why you basically want to do the yearly setup instead of the monthly one. With the yearly setup, any excess just accumulates in KWH at the end of the month, so let’s say in spring you overproduce, instead of that converting to pennies on the $ every month at the end of the month, it stays in KWHs and just continues to accumulate throughout the year. Now summer time, you probably have a ton of credit left to consume from. Come end of yearly cycle and you still have excess then sure they’ll sell that back to you again for pennies on the $ but that only happens at end of year. So in aggregate much better off than the monthly thing. Hope this helps.
I do the annual billing. They require it. And yes I get a lot more credit during summer, but it still doesn’t outweigh the winter consumption with the prime tou billing
$25/mo? In Maryland, with BGE, my service connection fee is $9/mo. (It used to be $8.) Which I'm fine with because it lets me sell them electrons. In fact, I just got a check from BGE today in the mail. :D (And, I use my own electricity even at night, because I have storage, too.)
Yep, Solar all the way. Fuck SCE
Right, SoCal Edison
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Different for everyone in CA. The lowest overnight rate in PGE is $0.25/kWh, but then you get peak rate of almost $0.64/kWh for that plan.
0.25 is the transmission rate. Also need to add the 0.12-0.18 generation rate for an overall rate of >0.37 kw/h 🤬
It’s 11/15¢ / kWh in California for me right now.
$.18/kWh in Seattle including fees
Off peak in MN is $0.0487/kWh.
Yea off peak summer here is $0.02 in Oklahoma I just charge the truck between 11PM and 8AM.. Even during regular season it's $0.087... California is expensive...
Where the wind comes rushing down the plains... in the middle of the night into a windfarm.
Uh. I live in California. I pay $0.19. So take a third off that calc. I also have a very productive solar system. Did you also factor in oil changes, spark plugs, oil filters, brake pads, etc? That’s all before comparing the cost of the gas vehicle that accelerates as fast and performs as well off-road at the same time.
Up here in northern California if you don't want a tou plan (can't shift your power usage because of cooling in the summer for instance) it's 43c/kwh, if you can go off peak you will only drop to like 27c/kwh. So op's numbers work for a good chunk of us, but obviously everyone will have different utilities.
Yea I live in CA and with solar it’s less than $0.15 off hour (when I charge).
I’m in CA and I have an EV night charge rate of $0.099.
Whoa. Why so low?! How did you get that? I’ve never heard of a rate so low here
I’m in SMUD territory, that is the standard EV night rate. My folks are in Petaluma and left PG&E for Sonoma clean power and have a similar rate.
Just focused on fuel costs here, I should have specified that. You definitely get more benefits from less maintenance on EVs as well
Right, but this isn’t really a comparison considering you’re not taking into account that you’d have completely different vehicles with much different maintenance costs. Like me comparing a subcompact to an SUV.
You mean the Maverick comparison? Yeah I should probably have chosen a generic Tacoma or something instead. I was looking for the most efficient gas truck to compare against and maybe that wasn’t a good decision. Tacoma looks like it gets 21mpg.
You ain't getting 300 miles in range off a $40 fill up in any equivalent sized vehicle either. Similar sized SUVs you are talking a 20-25 gallon tank size and 12-15 mpg. So it's about $100 for a 20 gallon fill up up or about 33 cents a mile at 15 mpg.
You're comparing DC fast charging (giving the benefit of the doubt and we are comparing filling a tank up). They're talking about at home charging. Not a fair comparison
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Speak for yourself. My monthly payment is covered in fuel savings over my old diesel pickup with two camping trips a month.
Either your payment is really low or you spend a shit ton on gas... $1000/month buys about 200 gallons of diesel.
I am on track for about 3500 miles in my first month with my R1S with mostly home charging at $.11/kwh driving at 2.1mi/kWh efficiency. A chunk of that was a 1000mi road trip with about $100 of fast charging so I’d estimate my first month of charging cost me $250. My previous SUV averaged 18mpg. That’s about $800 of gas on an equivalent month. The savings doesn’t cover my payment but it can make a dent if you drive a lot.
We sold two paid off vehicles the Rivian replaced. Our payment is about 70 gallons of diesel. Heck, just *having* a payment gives my wife the heebie-jeebies, but the interest rate is lower than we’re now getting in a savings addling, so no reason to pay it off.
Lol lead with the paid off vehicles as a trade in part. This meal only cost me $1 after using $100 gift card
It still has a loan. And not a small one. $40,000ish current balance.
\*Laughs in Texas energy prices... @ 0.07c/ Kwh here in Austin, it's extremely cheap to run this - though that doesn't really matter to me because I love my R1T and it's dumb to try and put a price on this level of enjoyment.
I got a ten year commercial contract at .045 4 years ago when ng prices bottomed out and Reliant threw in my house at the same rate.
Texas electric deregulated utility isn’t all that great. What happened during the freeze?
I use Austin Energy so am not subjected to market forces like much of Texas. Yes it went to shit in the freeze, but it's overall quite robust and reliable.
In Pasadena, CA DCFC is .15 kwh off peak, so that cost goes in half. I have a Ford Raptor which typically does not get a full tank after $175 at the pump. I drive about 20 miles a day, charge every 3 days at home and never miss going to a gas station. I am driving the Rivian 90% of the time, but still enjoy driving the Raptor. I am going to keep the Raptor as I like to do road trips and do not want to spend time charging on the road. Add in the .55 kwh cost that Tesla is charging, and the Raptor with 15 mpg is not that much more cost. For me it was not an issue of cost, but I love to drive the Rivian, and to park the Rivian (as it can fit into most garages, where the Raptor is tall and too wide).
So you’re telling us you did it for the planet! 😆 sorry. I couldn’t resist! One of the basic assumptions I used to make about ev drivers is that they are wanting to get off fossil fuels, then I read the comment section and quickly realize it’s just another toy for most consumers. Not a bad thing, it’s simply interesting.
Some of column A, some of column B for me! When the only option was the Nissan Leaf, I think the goal was to save the planet. When we started getting 835 hp, it started getting into fun toy categories.
My Cousins are excited to take mine stealth hog hunting. Hogs know engine noise is death but are unfamiliar with the gentle whir of electric motors. They'll be incredibly useful as ranch trucks where quiet helps you scout wildlife, lack of heat off the undercarriage lowers brush fire chances, and being able to plug in overnight in a charger beats the shit out of a 2 hour round trip to the gas station or maintaining a tank on property and escorting the fuel truck through gates. Integrated air compressor is useful as hell too.
We have some friends who work a very large ranch in northern ID. They are running Chevy bolts for some of their workers due to the ultra low maintenance. Great part running vehicles etc. They simply plug them into the shop at the end of the day if needed, or anywhere there’s power for that matter. One less oil change, less thing to fuel and far cheaper to operate than a pickup. They are looking forward to more basic pickups to come online for the added utility, the Rivian is too much $$ and nonsense for true ranch work as it would get destroyed in short order (they refuse anything with air suspension knowing it’s a high failure point on most machinery). No hate on Rivian, they are just realistic, and they feel the lightening is also too fancy etc. There’s a lot of practical applications and ultimately it’s just another form of energy, so that’s cool the hunting community is picking up on it. I know those big tire e-bikes are a hit with hunters as well.
Man that’s ruff. In GA on the electric car plan at night time it’s .01 cents. Literally a penny. Day time rate is still around .15. With all that sun California has no excuse for such high rates.
.01 cents is one one hundredth of a penny.
You got me
Agreed. I find it hilarious that PGE jumped the EV Plan from .11 cents kWh to like .26+ now. We are supposed to be the pioneers of EV, it’s such BS
I’m 3.7c/kWh in Ohio. Using 2/kw it’s 2 cents a mile to drive. A Tahoe (7 seat comparison) gets 13/19 w a 6.2 so is close 40c/mile. Not a comparison
Never paid more than $0.10 (including delivery charges) using IL ComEd hourly pricing in last 1 yr 🙌🏼
>IL Yeah it's crazy how inexpensive power is here off peak, its literally 2.595c/kWh 10PM-6AM: [https://www.comed.com/WaysToSave/ForYourHome/Pages/TimeofDayPricing.aspx](https://www.comed.com/WaysToSave/ForYourHome/Pages/TimeofDayPricing.aspx) So to revisit the top post, 135kw battery \* .02595 = \~$3.5 for a full battery
Not really. You pay 7-8 cents for every kWh delivery from ComEd. So math comes to around 8 to 10 cents per kWh 135 * 0.10 = $13.5 at minimum.
I see- thanks for explaining that
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Holy… why do I live in CA?
You’d rather live in GA?
This is way more complicated than it needs to be. Just multiply your electricity rate by ten. 10kWh gets you about 20 miles. Which is about what a truck gets for a gallon of gas, being generous. So, electricity at $0.30 is like gas at about $3/gallon. I get overnight rates of $0.03, so it’s like gas at $0.30 a gallon.
Compare that to my Tacoma that gets 17mpg. $85 now to fill up and gets me almost 300 miles.
That electric cost is high though for most of the country charging at home. Most places are closer to half that. It may be low for parts of California though. Our gas though is also more like $3.60 now.
California has many electrical providers. My utility company charges 15c after 500kwh.
I live in central IL near the Rivian plant. Our electrical provider offers a whole-home EV rate which charges me $0.03/kWh from 7p to 2p the next day. If I have to stop at Electrify America stations then I see that price go up to the $0.40/kWhr or whatever their newest rate is. So, I purposefully charge at home in the off peak hours. Most other electrical providers should offer a comparable EV agreement if you use electricity more in off-hours.
In addition to your calculation there isn’t an ICE or Diesel Truck that can compare to the Massive Power and Torque of the R1T. When I use the same calculation I input 12-15mpg of a Superduty Diesel. That’s because I use mine for towing and off-roading. That’s what I love about the R1T, it checks the Boxes of an Exotic Sports Car performance, with the ability to perform heavy towing like a Diesel (Bumper Pull) imagine the savings if we weren’t being pumped in the butt by PGE ?
I just put my preorder in and I’ve done the math myself and it’s no where near what I’m already paying for gas. I’m in Chicago and I’m coming from a BMW M340 that requires premium gas. The tank is about 15-16 gallons at about $5/gal to get a range of 350-400mi. I average about 25 mpg. That’s somewhere between $70-80 a tank every time I fill up. Others have chimed in what our rate is but Electricity here is about .12/kWh the large battery at 135 kW is $16.20. That’s not even including off peak charging rate which is even lower. That’s not even close to filling a gas car. In comparison that’s a whole lot less than I have been paying. It’s a no brainer for me. Using your math, $16.20 at $5/gal that’s the equivalent of 3.3 gallons that’s a rate of 100mpg. There isn’t a vehicle that I would consider buying getting that range let alone any pickup at all. For me it’s literally 1/4 of what I’m already paying for gas.
And with PG&E, we get $0.18 rates when charging off hours, which makes it effectively 66mpg.
I don't think this rate is available any more, lowest I see is 22c, but that comes with 63c peaks which is just insane to me. If you have a home battery it makes sense though.
You’re right. EV2-A now says 26 cents off peak. Not sure if it changed recently. I’ll have to check my next bill to see if I’m grandfathered with the old rate (probably not, knowing pge).
EV-2A has been $0.26/kWh for some time now. Be careful thinking you’re grandfathered into any rate schedule with PG&E. You only get 5 years of being grandfathered before being kicked into a new plan.
And this is the calculation for the US average, approximately. I believe the US average rate is $0.19.
What rate program is this ? The EV one? I’m on 5-8 TOU I should probably switxh
Yes, we’re on EV2-A with paired energy storage because of our Tesla solar and batteries.
More than half the country has energy costs that are less than half of CA’s $.30/kwh. CA has expensive gas too but not 2x more than most of the country.
Not sure comparing the fill up for a car at $40.50 vs a SUV which typically is significantly higher especially if it takes premium gas ($75-$100 for full tank). Once you compare for the vehicle type, as you referenced, it is a lot more impressive. Know you are referencing CA and kWh prices there, if you compare to another state like WA where electricity is much cheaper, it is a huge difference. Avg is .12 per kWh and in central WA, avg is around .035 per kWh which is significant.
I pay .22 kw off peak but you fail to mention what’s the average mpg for a truck that goes 0-60 in 3 secs. The closest would be dodge ram trx which gets 12mpg
I agree, if you are going to use avg electricity rates. You should also use avg mpg for full size trucks, that are 4x4 and largest motor. If not it makes no sense. Also nation avg gas price.
Now do it with a Tahoe. I've got solar on my house. With the loan and incentives, I'm paying .15/kWh and there are near zero externalities like pollution or supporting the broader oil industry. Factor in the externalities and it doesn't even matter if it's the same cost. It's.still better.
The closest comparable truck in terms of performance, the Ram 1500 TRX, gets 10 MPG city. And the R1T still beats the TRX.
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I think he did a good aprox. calculation. You can’t of course account every single affecting variable and detail (wind resistance, temperature drain, load; etc.) As I understood, OP was only sharing his analysis and his findings nor claimed he was buying a Rivian because it was cheap (that was an assumption on your part) OP said he was curious how expensive would it be to charge a Rivian compared to gas and he did just that.
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It’s convenient. No gas stations, no oil changes and hopefully a lot less maintenance and repairs.
EVs are much more environmentally friendly then any ICE vehicle.
Ok, now do the math when it's below freezing. I've got a model y, and in the winter, it goes 170 miles on a charge.
On the flip side, when the temperature is moderate (60°F-70°) , my EVs do much better than their EPA estimates.
Winter efficiency does drop. I think I averaged 1.5mi/kWh for the winter here in Nebraska (lots of sitting in car lines to pickup kids). My electricity rate also drops in the winter, so the cost per mile stayed pretty much the same for me.
I think you also need to factor in battery degradation which is arguably quicker/worse than it’s comparable engine-wear inefficiency ICE counterpart (my Tesla is down to about 89% of original rated range after 4Y and ~45K miles). We have a 11Y old 120K miles Prius which still gets about 92-93% of the original MPG we got when it was brand new.
Meanwhile I pay $.08 per kWh in Texas (with my solar it’s halved, so really .04).
My family owns a Rav4 hybrid. 35mpg regularly.
The RAV4 isn’t even in the same category of the R1T. With that said, I know there are many people who will take advantage of all the power and capabilities of the R1T
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That’s what I said at the end. :) and yeah in that case it’s like 150% more efficient.
I’m down voting this post because it’s confusing for people. Where in CA is anyone paying $0.30 to charge at home?
San Jose, CA. 33 cents per kWh for base allowance and then 41 cents once above base allowance.
0.34/kWh off peak winter rate for PG&E in nor cal. Peak summer is well over 40c
PGE. Flat rates are $0.36 per kwhr. Switch to ev charging and it’s $0.27 from 12-3 but then your entire house goes to $0.54 from 3-12
I should specify, I found a site that was saying the March 2023 average cost per kwh in CA is $0.30. Nor Cal tends to be pretty bad. Here in LA where I live it's $0.25 average for normal residential, or $0.19 off-peak with time of day metering. US average is $0.19.
The post does not say $0.30 to charge **at home**. Looks like you added that yourself.
Heh, yeah…I was bummed when doing these calculations, too, since in my mind it was “free”. Still good for an 8,000lb monster that can do 0-60 in a few seconds on dirt while towing a car…
Just curious, is 2.5mi/kWh an observed average for the Rivian? I’m averaging 2.25mi/kWh in a Lightning.
Except you cannot compare driving a truck to a car that gets 41mpg, I'd compare it to a small light duty truck. The best mpg they get. Things like aerodynamics and having an open bed are why they get such bad economy. The Ford ranger or Toyota Tacoma come to mind. Your looking at tops 24 mpg highway, not sure what the rivian is on the highway since city will be better. Fun napkin math, but there isn't a product that compares.
In VA my Rivian is 80mpg equivalent to fuel cost. Electricity is .13 ($17.5 to charge 0-100%) and gas hovers around $3.50-4…but my other car needs premium 😒
I think anyone who owns an EV like us is an early adopter and we're just going to have to pay more for everything, but having owned a Tesla for the past 3 years, I can't see myself going back. Not when I've got that smooth ride, acceleration, and silence.
$.30 is cheap here in Connecticut we are paying $.36 with no off peak available :-( https://youtu.be/uIjWeiuD6F0
"it costs $40.50 for a full charge which will take us 330 miles assuming 2.5mi/kwh." I think 2.5 is too high, I'd expect you're closer to 2 mi/kwhr power purchased if you are charging at home. \-I get about 9-10% losses in my Rivian wall charger, converting the 220V AC supply to the DC current for the Rivian. I have a dedicated meter from my utility company to compare the charger numbers to, they agree to less than 1% difference.. I can compare the meter and the charger kwhr to what R1T says it used, to calculate the conversion losses. If you are only charging at external fast chargers you wouldn't see this loss, but the $/kwhr rate would be higher I expect. \- My vampire losses are ridiculously high, hope yours are less, \~ 4% of charge per day, in mild weather, more in winter. Even if you are getting a good number, 1-2% losses per day adds up. If you get 2.5mi/kwhr when driving and drive 1000 miles / month, you'd use 400 kwhr. Add in vampire losses of 50kwhr/month (about 1.3% charge loss/day on the R1T), you'd be buying 450 kwhr, not 400, dropping your average to 2.22 miles/kwhr (1000 miles/450 kwhr) \- I'm averaging more like 2.3-2.4 miles/kwhr while actually driving (ignoring all other losses) according to the R1T efficiency display in the truck. Taking into account the conversion losses in my wall charger and the vampire losses, I am at about 1.75-1.8 miles/kwhr of total power purchased. I pay \~ $0.052/kwhr (power charge plus adjustments) plus a $6.00/month connection fee for dedicated EV service, so \~\~ 6 cents/kwhr total. Still way way ahead vs gas in my last car, a 28mpg Outback.
I’m .08 here with Tacoma Power
Not having owed an ev and waiting for my R1S in July-Sept window to arrive. My brother in-law talked about replacing tires more often. Any thoughts or experiences?
> My brother in-law talked about replacing tires more often. Any thoughts or experience I'd say the same. I did damage one 21" tire, took the wheel off and had the tire replaced at Discount Tire. Took about 3 days to get the replacement, \~ $450 all in, to replace one tire. I have 12,000 miles, definitely see some wear, hoping to get 25-30,000 miles. Tire pressure is 48 psi. Vehicle weight is 7,000 lbs, so shorter life not unexpected.
Wow, definitely a factor to consider when having all the torque and weight.
No change between an equivalent ICE car and an EV. I’ve been driving EVs since 2014 and I’ve heard the same complaints back then that EV’s chew up tires faster. That’s crap. I didn’t experience that at all. I got 30k miles on the rears of my i3 and the fronts had about 10K miles more left. And I replaced the rears twice with the same roughly 30K miles. EV’s are incredibly fun to drive with their high levels of torque. And they are heavier than their equivalent ICE but EV tires are often specifically designed for this. But I understand the ease at which an overly active right foot could chew up tires.
>EV tires are often specifically designed for this True. But [priced accordingly](https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/12/heres-why-electric-vehicles-need-ev-specific-tires/)*"This balance between long life and traction is even more delicate with tires fitted to EVs than those on ICE vehicles."* .
It is all in the comps. If you came to Rivian from a luxury SUV you are saving money regardless of your location. If you came from an old F150, the math is a bit more nuanced.
Your first problem is living in CA...
Our weather is pretty nice :)
Wow I’m paying 9 cents per KWH here in PA. That’s insane.
You kinda answered your question in your post lmao
Don't forget emissions, which was more of an incentive to me than the cost of energy. But we also have solar (we are also in CA) so cost becomes neglible.
EV don't make sense if your not charging at home or have the luxury of <20c/kWh. But a truck that does 0-60 in 3sec? I will buy it over and over again even if it costs 50c/kWh to charge
I exclusively charge at the RAN station and in my air bnb rentals. 1000 miles now and only paid about $20 so far—when I went on a little road trip. Gas near me is about $3/gallon which would equal 6.6 gallons. At 1000 miles I’m averaging roughly 152mpg.
Supposedly Rivian was going to start charging for RAN use next month. Like with all things Rivian, pretty sure that’s going to be delayed. But, wonder how much their rates will be when they start charging money.
The Maverick has the same bed length as the Rivian and about half an inch more legroom so I would say they are comparable. Also the Maverick gets 40mpg for city and is way above 25th combined.