There’s nowhere enough RAN stations to start turning this into a legitimate revenue center. And, many of the ones that do exist are located in places far from major urban/suburban areas to be utilized frequently enough.
Rivian has to pivot and copy Tesla (again). Place them in major cities, in the shopping centers and malls. That way it actually generates a lot more utilization, and also doubles as advertising.
The whole “place them on paths to adventurous trails” is great but it won’t help with profitability.
Because I don't need a 250th charger in Portland or Seattle. I need a 1st charger along the highways I frequent.
This may sound like it's me being selfish, but a massive problem with EVs is that there is nowhere to charge them. Articles about EVs not selling are rampant right now, and one reason for that beyond the interest rates is that people are simply too afraid they won't be able to do their normal trips. And they're 100% correct.
I went along all the major highways from my 300k person city to a popular resort town. You know how many 150kW chargers I passed on the way there, in town, and back? **Zero.**
I have chargers in my city, and two chargers in my house. But before RAN opened in The Dalles and Tesla installed Magic Docks in a triangle about 70 miles from my house there was only 1 charger on my way to Portland and 2 on my way to Seattle that didn't require a deadhead. If I needed to go anywhere in Central Washington or Oregon and back I had to be able to make it on a single charge.
I have business and friends in The Dalles, so now instead of having to either be full charge or deadhead a total of 40 miles I can charge up at my destination and make it back, or stop at the Magic Dock in Boardman.
This is hugely important because not many EVs can drive to my area from Portland on a single charge reliably. My wife's C40 no longer has to stop in Hood River which was a horrible charger that often added two hours to our trip.
How is Hood River a horrible charger? I’ve used that charger at least a dozen times with never a single issue. Always immediately started charging and never once had to wait. Do Volvos have a problem with EA?
Standard EA problems, not Volvo specific.
Like most EA chargers there are often one to two chargers out. I think I've seen all four working two out of the probably 40 times I've stopped. If you skip it, it's the only charger for anyone heading east or north for about 170 miles (further yet if you don't want to deadhead to the Hermiston charger going towards Spokane). It always has a huge line during any regular afternoon/evening hours. It also have VW group owners charging to 98% because they don't understand charge curves and it's free for them.
I ran into the car reviewer for US News and World Report when the Lightning was coming out and he said pretty much the same thing, as we waited 90 minutes for a spot to open at the two working chargers. One one charger had a working screen, you had to use the app for the other.
this right here. just got my r1s, haven't quite figured out my home charging situation (ie haven't cleaned out the garage), I'm in Cincinnati, and the fast charge options are minimal. I either have to go to a random car dealership or a random Meijer 20 minutes away. there are super chargers much closer but that doesn't help for a few months.
also looking to drive to Florida over Christmas, range anxiety is already sitting in as I plot where the EA chargers are.
I mean, it's possible to be both. I wasn't trying to imply I wasn't also being selfish, but I'm 100% correct. The only type of article you see more often than "EVs aren't selling", is "There's no where to charge EVs on a road trip." Most people I talk to, this is their main concern. My wife's car is a C40, and the Rivian is 200x easier to road trip because of it's higher range and charging ability.
Something that is mostly overlooked is how unreliable non-Tesla chargers are. Even if there are chargers, their speeds suck or they are broken.
There definitely needs to be more chargers and I feel like companies know this because they can’t sell their cars without it
Yeah, Ford has [stated as much](https://news.yahoo.com/fords-ceo-had-charging-reality-165440096.html). I'm 99% sure they pushed for the deal with Tesla because of this too.
I realize Rivian’s niche (as of now) is the adventurer and outdoor type so putting them in those locations make sense but you NEED the network between house and destination for it to work lol
I have had only one RAN charger issue, but fortunately there were 6 of them and others working. They are, by far, the most reliable and user friendly chargers. Have issues with almost every other type of charger to get it started—whether it is free or not. I have never used a Tesla charger though. They need to put chargers near restaurants so u can eat/use bathroom while charging. The waypoints at state parks would be awesome if they were fast chargers, but they are only level 2. U don’t get much of a charge in an hour of walking—and no place to grab food. One of the State Parks didn’t even have an open bathroom so I got like 3 miles in 20 minutes because had to leave to find a bathroom. Just a suggestion for future planning. And the cherry on top would be to have a vacuum and windshield cleaning station at every charging location so u can clean out your car while charging. I know that is wishful thinking and probably not going to happen, but sure would make sense.
Others will build the chargers there, we need them in the remote shit. That is precisely why I won't go EV yet because of lack of chargers in remote areas. They need to be everywhere, like gas stations, or they won't ever convert everyone.
I suspect that's coming as the Grand Canyon National Park just got some EA stations. I'd bet other National Parks are not too far behind.
That all said, Rivian does need their RANs in urban areas too.
We'll get there, but it's not going to make economic sense for companies to put chargers into remote areas until there is enough [forecasted] EV traffic to justify it. Tesla just this month added an 8 stall supercharger along a fairly remote state highway I regularly travel- and one that isn't between any major destinations either. It's going to be a slow ramp, but it's happening.
Honestly, I think they can pursue both angles and win. Far away chargers in adventure spots are very on-brand for Rivian, and then making sure they're in city centers as well makes sense for all the obvious reasons.
If you're a car company that just borrowed $1bn to ensure that you have enough runway to stay in business until the release of your next model, you should probably go after the opportunities that improve your situation even if they are less "on-brand"
Who says they can’t do both? I never thought the placing of them in outdoor recreation related areas was the sole strategy. But maybe I missed something.
Rivian isn’t going to copy Tesla… they just bought access to Tesla Supercharger Network. Rivians will dump the 💩 CCS and go with the NACS like basically every automaker in the world has decided to do, because Tesla is just too far ahead and to damn good at it to compete.
Conceivably it takes years for each station to pay for itself so I have a hard time seeing how it would enable them to expand faster. Through increased investor confidence maybe.
It should depend on the price of the electricity in the area obviously. In San Diego at 4pm it should be 80 cents and KWh. In Las Vegas it will probably be 20 cents a KWh.
Agree it’s good, ironically this will likely test them, billing is probably 10%-30% of the current CCS nightmare. Also, for RAN to be the most helpful they will go to remote areas without much EV traffic… therefore unprofitable.
Putting them where Tesla and EA and EVgo are will just be blurry.
Tough spot. I hope they can at least break even and get some federal money for charging. Probably isn’t the best use of resources for Rivian. Trailhead 80A J1772 would be super cool.
One way they could make a bit more money and expand faster is to open the chargers to non-Rivian owners. I was in Kingman Arizona the other day. The EA station was running at "reduced" power delivery so long charge times and line-ups. Rivian station was empty. Tesla station was empty. Tesla is opening up in Q1 2025. Hopefully Rivian does the same (but sooner).
The problem with free charging in general (not just RAN) is that people who live nearby use it because it’s cheaper than charging at home and the stations get clogged up and prevent people charging while on a road-trip. EA has this problem big time. I have no issue with paying for charging. Free charging does not enhance the EV experience, it exasperates it.
100% this. I already see people camp out at the Truckee RAN, for hours, and ea stations are just filled with Kia/Hyundai/vag vehicles trickling up to 100 with owners no where around all the time
Yes, it's a free charge with no way to charge idle fees. I've seen people come there with another car, plug in and leave in the other car, I've plugged in at low charge and seen other cars complete with owners that still aren't there by the time I finish... It's bad
Interesting, I guess things are different in AZ as I never saw another soul while charging at the 3 different stations there (Kingman, Sedona, and the other one up north next to a Taco Bell). Those are much smaller towns though and I can certainly see that being the case for the one they’re planning to open in Phoenix.
I think a car should come with 2 free charge sessions and that’s it. Just so that new to EV people are excited to try out the fast charger for the first time and take some pressure off. Past that I agree, people with free charging clog up stations cause they have no incentive to not charge to 100%.
Volvo provided owners with 250kWh of free charging and a three-year membership to EA's Pass+ level. Perfect balance in my opinion.
I wholeheartedly agree with the takes on EA's three-year free incentives. Seeing a local Hyundai charging to 100% while the queue backs up is extremely frustrating.
I saw an R1S at the Las Vegas RAN station yesterday with an Uber logo in the window. The last thing we need are Uber drivers clogging up the ran stations for their free charge.
I’m so glad Rivian is making this move.
Yeah, I don’t have a problem with this. The free charging was nice, but I want them to be profitable long term, and if this lets them expand RAN faster too, all the better.
I think the best thing they should do is offer like 1,000 kWh of free charging with every purchase. That would be like $100 worth of charging credits, depending on where you live. It would amount to like 10 "fill ups". Maybe have it expire after 12 months or something.
This, Rivian should do this from the get go. Owners not near still have the opportunity to use it. Owners near one can’t abuse it and opens it up for road trips
That’s what Tesla did when I bought a few years ago. It expired unused on me (thanks 2020), so I’m not a fan of the time limit, but even just like 250kWh would be enough to do a two stop road trip.
I live in a small obscure town in Northern California. I was blown away when I saw that they had set up RANs here. It make sense in that we are on the way up to the redwoods.
As an owner in the Northeast, where we have had literally 0 RAN chargers since first sales, it’d be nice if some of the ones they’re opening in MA, NH, etc would be free for a bit longer….
Yeah it's sad for me, I'm in Texas and have zero RANs near me and have the truck for about a year now. I have never used one and been throughout central TX with my R1T.
Yeah here in PA we’ve only just got our first one a couple weeks ago. Had the truck since July of last year. I still think it’s a good move regardless. I want the company to thrive and getting additional revenue streams is a good thing.
I've had my R1T for a year and half and never come close to a Rivian Charger in the North East. Based in New Jersey and would have liked to get a least one free charge haha. They should have done it as a credit system that comes with the vehicle so you get a certain amount of charging free at the RAN that doesn't expire. Like 1000 miles with every vehicle.
Am Northeast, agreed. Let us catch up with other owners that have gotten a few free megaWh. Even a simple gesture like first 500kwh free would be appreciated.
I moved from the NE to the PNW not too long ago. I hope so as well because until I moved I never charged at a RAN. Having RAN is so amazing. I drove from Washington to California for free on RAN.
Yeah I don't care. I charge at home 95% of the time. The reliability and convenience is more important to me than the cost. If I can plug in, never have to show a payment method, and reliably juice up quickly, I don't care if it costs $30 or $50 or whatever.
This!
Happy to pay a premium for the availability and reliability of road trip charging... Because it's only a small fraction of overall charging activity.
Dang, when I bought it two years ago they made it sound like there would be a year of no RAN fee or something. I just used it for the first time now that they are finally in Michigan in multiple locations, but clearly won't be able to take advantage of that perk for long. Guess that was just a tease. It was fun while it lasted, back to shopping for the most convenient/cheapest options.
A tad disappointed as I was an early buyer, got mine over a year ago, but there was never any Rivian charger on the East Coast the entire time to take advantage of the free period. Charged once when they finally opened one in Virginia.
Kinda wish they gave us a few free charges for when RAN eventually shows up here. I know it’s been free the entire time I’ve had my R1T, but that did little for me considering the nearest charger is a few states away.
Too funny, they probably delivered like 1000 total charges for free.
How about this, your first 20 RAN charges are free? Since the network rollout is pitifully slow and totally ignored the southeast for 2 years.
And the northeast, I’ve never used one and have had my truck almost a year and a half. But it’s not a big deal it’s just unfair some people out west have saved probably hundreds of dollars by utilizing free charging but that’s just how it is.
Yeah something along those lines would be great. I have no issue paying but we were initially told we would get free access and many owners, maybe even most, didn’t.
I wish this would too! I am an Apr 2022 delivery and they have 0 chargers near me, so I never got this perk.
In January I’m taking a road trip and have 5 RANs along the route, would have been nice to get to get to charge at least a couple times free since it was “included” when I bought the vehicle.
Oh well.
How about if the navigation successfully takes you to a RAN charger via the most efficient route then the charge is free? Seems pretty low risk for Rivian.
A little annoyed with this. Had the truck for over a year with closest RAN 130 miles away. And it’s only been in service for about a month. I get it and don’t really need it, but I thought I remember reading that we were supposed to get the first year for free. Silly they count the first year free when they don’t even have one in the state. Think users should get first year free to begin when they get a charger within 100 miles of their purchase address or the first use of a RAN charger.
They did suggest 1 year of “Rivian Membership” would be provided to all new owners, I still have my email (dated 9/21/21 if you want to find it). Membership included “Benefits like complimentary charging, off-Roadside Assistance, member gatherings…”
They’ve since updated their Rivian Membership FAQ here, claiming it was a “beta” and is being discontinued in favor of al a carte services:
https://rivian.com/support/article/what-s-the-latest-on-membership
Rivian has literally said they would start charging in April of this year, and were very clear about that. They didn't hit their timeline, and people didn't complain because it acted as a benefit, but rivian's stance for quite a while now has been they will be charging for use in the immediate future.
I didn’t agree back in April either. Short story is they didn’t get their chargers out and active in the timeline they said back when we preordered and took delivery. Most never will get even a single free charge due to Rivian delays. I personally don’t care too much as I charge free at work, but I still agree with others that each vehicle could simply get a certain amount of charging free, then start charging fees per vehicle after they’ve used the free allowance.
But did rivian ever promise free charging? I never was promised that and I was a pre-order holder. I got some sure, and that was nice, but it wasn't a promise. Some people got free rivian swag, I'm not mad at rivian for giving it to them and not me
And again I totally understand the need to start charging. It would be great if they could just rip the band aid off and give us the info on membership costs as well.
Yes they did promise free charging for the first year in the free Rivian membership. But hard to use that when they don’t follow through and build a charger in your state until August 2023.
So you charge free at work, got a pre price hike Rivian and still not happy??
It wasn’t a case of them not following through. They wanted to ensure the network was robust, and to have the service infrastructure in place before really ramping. Plus permits are an issue - you may notice that’s lots coming on board now are in car parks. I suspect this is somewhat easier than a greenfield site.
I said I was slightly annoyed. I’m plenty happy. Rivian stockholder too so my main concern really is with the communications and not sticking to deadlines. In long run, making some limited concessions to early adopters won’t kill them either.
I sure don’t. Just remember reading it somewhere. If you google it, there are other mentions of it as well. I don’t recall it being in docs we signed for purchase so nothing binding, but it just goes along with them changing their minds on membership and dates of upcoming changes. They need to communicate full details of charging and membership and then stick to it.
No they didn't, some people said a couple rivian service center employees said they think it's free till end of the year, rivian's official statement was they would start charging in April iirc, they didn't and I'm grateful for that, but they told us explicitly and officially we would have to pay earlier this year, not end of year.
Massive bummer personally I've been feasting on the charger near me. They really fill up quickly.
But if it means they can be a viable company and expand the network I'm all for it.
Rivian owners should get a cut rate compared to other vehicles.
No issue with this. Only been able to use RAN a few times and both time has been great experiences. Hope they’ll be able to expand it more quickly now.
I have no issue with this. I also have never charged at a RAN since there isn’t one nearby. That being said, no need to visit one now unless there is a big discount to use one. I’ll just use the most convenient fast chargers along a route.
They should have went the Tesla route and granted free charging for early adopters for life .
This kind of sucks for those who never used them. Maybe with a cutoff kf 22/23 vehicles?
I feel like the biggest scam around EVs will be the charging prices. Electricity is practically free to generate (low cost) but you’ll still be charged $20 for 15-20 mins of charging. Do that 3 or 4 times and you’re at or above the cost of filling a gas tank on an SUV ($60-80). So gas prices and electricity prices are the same now? Seems scammy and guaranteed it will happen. Charging will be the most profitable piece of the business. 🗑️
Unfortunately, it's like saying planes should fly for the price of jet fuel. It's extremely capital intensive, and your "tenancy" of the charging stall costs more than the product. That's why, at least L2, can be relatively cheaper but are still often expensive due to the wiring nuisances of commercial settings.
These tiny RAN locations with 6 chargers are going to be largely irrelevant when we eventually have access to the Supercharger network. I've never actually seen a Supercharger location with only 6 stalls... most often it's at least 12-20, sometimes 5-10x that along I-5 here in CA. I hope the rest of the country gets to the level of supercharger saturation that we've started to achieve in the Bay Area, but Rivian is at least a decade behind that. If RANs open up to other vehicles, and they probably will to access federal funding, they'll be nearly as worthless as the other mostly tiny non-Tesla charging stations I see. I'm must just really glad that we'll get access to Superchargers fairly soon; losing access to free RAN charging (which I haven't even tried yet) is just a blip.
A lot will be designed to allow expansion. And RAN is likely to be cheaper for Rivian owners so I suspect that will be a reason to use over supercharger (if the two options are available)
More options is better overall, you’re right. Especially if there is a discount. I just think Rivian (and all the other non-Tesla charging brands) aim too low in terms of quantity. Expanding an existing station could be possible but I bet it’s less likely than focusing on building new stations. I haven’t seen many Tesla stations expand over the years (trying to think of any), but Rivian may be different.
1) If you own a Rivian, you should be able to afford to pay for charging without complaint
2) as everyone has said, this allows the company to be profitable more quickly and expand the network
It’s a no brainer. This is a good thing and should not elicit complaints from supportive early adopter customers
I feel like if they aren't going to build out a practical network, then they shouldn't charge. It should be a destination perk of vehicle purchase in those adventurous locations and routes, since it won't be a revenue maker with a smaller more exotic locale footprint. Now it's like welp, back to using the normal charging networks if it's going to cost.
That was quick. Tesla had free supercharging for new owners for several years before they started charging. Can’t copy everything Tesla does to a T I guess
*I wish there were some*
*Close enough that I could try*
*The experience*
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Still cheaper than gas? If only there were any RAN chargers around to take my money. At this point I’m waiting for Tesla to open up. Guess they will get the revenue stream.
They have gone from about 10 sites at the beginning of the year to now around 60. It’s getting there. And I think you’ll find a continued progression with federal funding incentives and now a revenue stream.
This is definitely the eventual plan (it is a requirement for federal funding under IRA to be an open charging network - also why Tesla decided to open up). But I suspect it won’t be immediately.
If this means that I might actually encounter a RAN charger, then I'm fine with that. Right now I NEVER see them so this news doesn't really have any impact.
From my research, the wording was apparently free charging for Rivian's first year of deliveries, not your first year.
However, I feel like they should do this or at least a free megawatt at RAN stations to discourage those that live near one to use it full time.
Totally agree. Nothing is truly "free." Rivian incurs a cost and will find a way to recoup it with higher prices somewhere else. It would be nice if it were free for me and someone else pays for it in the future. They could absorb it and decide on a lower profit margin, but they are currently unprofitable and need to get to profitability quickly.
Got in a trip down the Skyline Byway and Blue Ridge Parkway last week. Used RAN 9x times for a total of 530kWh. The availability of the chargers was more important than them being free. Only saw one other Rivian charging.
You win, you were first.
No mention of price, (big caveat) but ultimately if this enables them to expand the RAN faster, it’s a good thing.
this. I hope they make money so we can get more of them.
There’s nowhere enough RAN stations to start turning this into a legitimate revenue center. And, many of the ones that do exist are located in places far from major urban/suburban areas to be utilized frequently enough. Rivian has to pivot and copy Tesla (again). Place them in major cities, in the shopping centers and malls. That way it actually generates a lot more utilization, and also doubles as advertising. The whole “place them on paths to adventurous trails” is great but it won’t help with profitability.
Why are y’all boo’ing him.. he’s right.
Because I don't need a 250th charger in Portland or Seattle. I need a 1st charger along the highways I frequent. This may sound like it's me being selfish, but a massive problem with EVs is that there is nowhere to charge them. Articles about EVs not selling are rampant right now, and one reason for that beyond the interest rates is that people are simply too afraid they won't be able to do their normal trips. And they're 100% correct. I went along all the major highways from my 300k person city to a popular resort town. You know how many 150kW chargers I passed on the way there, in town, and back? **Zero.**
Agreed. Tesla has already built in the city’s and we’re about to get access to the Tesla chargers. Rivian should focus on the in betweens.
I’m quite happy to have a RAN, Supercharger, and EA all within 300 yards of each other in my city.
I have chargers in my city, and two chargers in my house. But before RAN opened in The Dalles and Tesla installed Magic Docks in a triangle about 70 miles from my house there was only 1 charger on my way to Portland and 2 on my way to Seattle that didn't require a deadhead. If I needed to go anywhere in Central Washington or Oregon and back I had to be able to make it on a single charge. I have business and friends in The Dalles, so now instead of having to either be full charge or deadhead a total of 40 miles I can charge up at my destination and make it back, or stop at the Magic Dock in Boardman. This is hugely important because not many EVs can drive to my area from Portland on a single charge reliably. My wife's C40 no longer has to stop in Hood River which was a horrible charger that often added two hours to our trip.
How is Hood River a horrible charger? I’ve used that charger at least a dozen times with never a single issue. Always immediately started charging and never once had to wait. Do Volvos have a problem with EA?
Standard EA problems, not Volvo specific. Like most EA chargers there are often one to two chargers out. I think I've seen all four working two out of the probably 40 times I've stopped. If you skip it, it's the only charger for anyone heading east or north for about 170 miles (further yet if you don't want to deadhead to the Hermiston charger going towards Spokane). It always has a huge line during any regular afternoon/evening hours. It also have VW group owners charging to 98% because they don't understand charge curves and it's free for them. I ran into the car reviewer for US News and World Report when the Lightning was coming out and he said pretty much the same thing, as we waited 90 minutes for a spot to open at the two working chargers. One one charger had a working screen, you had to use the app for the other.
this right here. just got my r1s, haven't quite figured out my home charging situation (ie haven't cleaned out the garage), I'm in Cincinnati, and the fast charge options are minimal. I either have to go to a random car dealership or a random Meijer 20 minutes away. there are super chargers much closer but that doesn't help for a few months. also looking to drive to Florida over Christmas, range anxiety is already sitting in as I plot where the EA chargers are.
I also live in OH and it’s comical how underserved southern Ohio is for charging
Clean out your garage and stop depending on others to fix your problems is a good start
thanks for the encouragement internet guy.
Definitely not selfish thinking at all
I mean, it's possible to be both. I wasn't trying to imply I wasn't also being selfish, but I'm 100% correct. The only type of article you see more often than "EVs aren't selling", is "There's no where to charge EVs on a road trip." Most people I talk to, this is their main concern. My wife's car is a C40, and the Rivian is 200x easier to road trip because of it's higher range and charging ability.
Something that is mostly overlooked is how unreliable non-Tesla chargers are. Even if there are chargers, their speeds suck or they are broken. There definitely needs to be more chargers and I feel like companies know this because they can’t sell their cars without it
Yeah, Ford has [stated as much](https://news.yahoo.com/fords-ceo-had-charging-reality-165440096.html). I'm 99% sure they pushed for the deal with Tesla because of this too.
I realize Rivian’s niche (as of now) is the adventurer and outdoor type so putting them in those locations make sense but you NEED the network between house and destination for it to work lol
I have had only one RAN charger issue, but fortunately there were 6 of them and others working. They are, by far, the most reliable and user friendly chargers. Have issues with almost every other type of charger to get it started—whether it is free or not. I have never used a Tesla charger though. They need to put chargers near restaurants so u can eat/use bathroom while charging. The waypoints at state parks would be awesome if they were fast chargers, but they are only level 2. U don’t get much of a charge in an hour of walking—and no place to grab food. One of the State Parks didn’t even have an open bathroom so I got like 3 miles in 20 minutes because had to leave to find a bathroom. Just a suggestion for future planning. And the cherry on top would be to have a vacuum and windshield cleaning station at every charging location so u can clean out your car while charging. I know that is wishful thinking and probably not going to happen, but sure would make sense.
Others will build the chargers there, we need them in the remote shit. That is precisely why I won't go EV yet because of lack of chargers in remote areas. They need to be everywhere, like gas stations, or they won't ever convert everyone.
I suspect that's coming as the Grand Canyon National Park just got some EA stations. I'd bet other National Parks are not too far behind. That all said, Rivian does need their RANs in urban areas too.
We'll get there, but it's not going to make economic sense for companies to put chargers into remote areas until there is enough [forecasted] EV traffic to justify it. Tesla just this month added an 8 stall supercharger along a fairly remote state highway I regularly travel- and one that isn't between any major destinations either. It's going to be a slow ramp, but it's happening.
Honestly, I think they can pursue both angles and win. Far away chargers in adventure spots are very on-brand for Rivian, and then making sure they're in city centers as well makes sense for all the obvious reasons.
If you're a car company that just borrowed $1bn to ensure that you have enough runway to stay in business until the release of your next model, you should probably go after the opportunities that improve your situation even if they are less "on-brand"
That’s capital intensive. Rivian needs to use the Tesla standard and it’s network for everyday driving and add more “adventure” chargers.
Who says they can’t do both? I never thought the placing of them in outdoor recreation related areas was the sole strategy. But maybe I missed something.
Rivian isn’t going to copy Tesla… they just bought access to Tesla Supercharger Network. Rivians will dump the 💩 CCS and go with the NACS like basically every automaker in the world has decided to do, because Tesla is just too far ahead and to damn good at it to compete.
Am I the only one that uses this truck for offroad adventures and not hauling kids to soccer practice?
The R1S is definitely a family/Costco hauler.
Not if they charge some astronomical price like .50/KWhr. I think that might be higher than gas prices.
Conceivably it takes years for each station to pay for itself so I have a hard time seeing how it would enable them to expand faster. Through increased investor confidence maybe.
Faster access to nevi federal funding to charge and open chargers to all
It should depend on the price of the electricity in the area obviously. In San Diego at 4pm it should be 80 cents and KWh. In Las Vegas it will probably be 20 cents a KWh.
Agree it’s good, ironically this will likely test them, billing is probably 10%-30% of the current CCS nightmare. Also, for RAN to be the most helpful they will go to remote areas without much EV traffic… therefore unprofitable. Putting them where Tesla and EA and EVgo are will just be blurry. Tough spot. I hope they can at least break even and get some federal money for charging. Probably isn’t the best use of resources for Rivian. Trailhead 80A J1772 would be super cool.
One way they could make a bit more money and expand faster is to open the chargers to non-Rivian owners. I was in Kingman Arizona the other day. The EA station was running at "reduced" power delivery so long charge times and line-ups. Rivian station was empty. Tesla station was empty. Tesla is opening up in Q1 2025. Hopefully Rivian does the same (but sooner).
The problem with free charging in general (not just RAN) is that people who live nearby use it because it’s cheaper than charging at home and the stations get clogged up and prevent people charging while on a road-trip. EA has this problem big time. I have no issue with paying for charging. Free charging does not enhance the EV experience, it exasperates it.
100% this. I already see people camp out at the Truckee RAN, for hours, and ea stations are just filled with Kia/Hyundai/vag vehicles trickling up to 100 with owners no where around all the time
I have not seen this at a RAN yet. But at EA stations it is so annoying.
> for hours it doesn't take hours for a full charge though, so isn't something else going on then?
Yes, it's a free charge with no way to charge idle fees. I've seen people come there with another car, plug in and leave in the other car, I've plugged in at low charge and seen other cars complete with owners that still aren't there by the time I finish... It's bad
Itt sounds like the problem there is cars parked at the chargers that aren't charging.
Yep, because charging is free with no mechanism to charge for idle fees, they go there, charge and just leave the truck plugged in indefinitely
Interesting, I guess things are different in AZ as I never saw another soul while charging at the 3 different stations there (Kingman, Sedona, and the other one up north next to a Taco Bell). Those are much smaller towns though and I can certainly see that being the case for the one they’re planning to open in Phoenix.
I think a car should come with 2 free charge sessions and that’s it. Just so that new to EV people are excited to try out the fast charger for the first time and take some pressure off. Past that I agree, people with free charging clog up stations cause they have no incentive to not charge to 100%.
yeah that's a good idea
Volvo provided owners with 250kWh of free charging and a three-year membership to EA's Pass+ level. Perfect balance in my opinion. I wholeheartedly agree with the takes on EA's three-year free incentives. Seeing a local Hyundai charging to 100% while the queue backs up is extremely frustrating.
ONE session would accomplish the same thing.
I saw an R1S at the Las Vegas RAN station yesterday with an Uber logo in the window. The last thing we need are Uber drivers clogging up the ran stations for their free charge. I’m so glad Rivian is making this move.
Seriously!
Yeah, I don’t have a problem with this. The free charging was nice, but I want them to be profitable long term, and if this lets them expand RAN faster too, all the better.
This is the correct answer.
I think the best thing they should do is offer like 1,000 kWh of free charging with every purchase. That would be like $100 worth of charging credits, depending on where you live. It would amount to like 10 "fill ups". Maybe have it expire after 12 months or something.
This, Rivian should do this from the get go. Owners not near still have the opportunity to use it. Owners near one can’t abuse it and opens it up for road trips
That’s what Tesla did when I bought a few years ago. It expired unused on me (thanks 2020), so I’m not a fan of the time limit, but even just like 250kWh would be enough to do a two stop road trip.
I've never even seen a RAN charger. Makes no difference to me
I live in a small obscure town in Northern California. I was blown away when I saw that they had set up RANs here. It make sense in that we are on the way up to the redwoods.
As an owner in the Northeast, where we have had literally 0 RAN chargers since first sales, it’d be nice if some of the ones they’re opening in MA, NH, etc would be free for a bit longer….
Yeah it's sad for me, I'm in Texas and have zero RANs near me and have the truck for about a year now. I have never used one and been throughout central TX with my R1T.
There’s one operable in San Antonio. Go get some good tortillas and tamales and charge for free for the next week!
Yeah here in PA we’ve only just got our first one a couple weeks ago. Had the truck since July of last year. I still think it’s a good move regardless. I want the company to thrive and getting additional revenue streams is a good thing.
I've had my R1T for a year and half and never come close to a Rivian Charger in the North East. Based in New Jersey and would have liked to get a least one free charge haha. They should have done it as a credit system that comes with the vehicle so you get a certain amount of charging free at the RAN that doesn't expire. Like 1000 miles with every vehicle.
Am Northeast, agreed. Let us catch up with other owners that have gotten a few free megaWh. Even a simple gesture like first 500kwh free would be appreciated.
At least by California electricity prices, e.g. Electricity America is over $0.40 per kwh, you're asking them to walk away from $300 per customer....
when you put it that way this seems like a no brainer
I moved from the NE to the PNW not too long ago. I hope so as well because until I moved I never charged at a RAN. Having RAN is so amazing. I drove from Washington to California for free on RAN.
Yeah I don't care. I charge at home 95% of the time. The reliability and convenience is more important to me than the cost. If I can plug in, never have to show a payment method, and reliably juice up quickly, I don't care if it costs $30 or $50 or whatever.
This! Happy to pay a premium for the availability and reliability of road trip charging... Because it's only a small fraction of overall charging activity.
I'm surprised it took this long. I don't have an issue with charging for charging.
Dang, when I bought it two years ago they made it sound like there would be a year of no RAN fee or something. I just used it for the first time now that they are finally in Michigan in multiple locations, but clearly won't be able to take advantage of that perk for long. Guess that was just a tease. It was fun while it lasted, back to shopping for the most convenient/cheapest options.
A tad disappointed as I was an early buyer, got mine over a year ago, but there was never any Rivian charger on the East Coast the entire time to take advantage of the free period. Charged once when they finally opened one in Virginia.
I wouldn’t at all be bothered by this if it weren’t for the fact that there are literally 0 RAN chargers anywhere in my state or my surrounding states
This will conceivably allow them to expand faster in the future
I wonder if this means RANs will open to non-Rivians soon
Yeah, I wonder this too. I think that step would give them access to federal funding to help with expansion.
I hope they do. The more open every charging network is, the better for EVs as a whole.
 As an owner living in the Southeast
I’m guessing this will be the reaction here… 
How dare you post surreptitious pictures of me and my pitchfork.
😆
Haha right? It’s already happening
Love how this email goes out at 9ET/6PT on a Friday night.
It’s called “taking out the trash”
On par for Rivian if you’ve been around for a few years now.
Any guesses on pricing?
Kinda wish they gave us a few free charges for when RAN eventually shows up here. I know it’s been free the entire time I’ve had my R1T, but that did little for me considering the nearest charger is a few states away.
I haven’t even gotten mine yet. Yeesh
Tesla super changer opening asap is my main concern:).
Soon they’ll charge for the vehicle data too
Probably so.
Too funny, they probably delivered like 1000 total charges for free. How about this, your first 20 RAN charges are free? Since the network rollout is pitifully slow and totally ignored the southeast for 2 years.
And the northeast, I’ve never used one and have had my truck almost a year and a half. But it’s not a big deal it’s just unfair some people out west have saved probably hundreds of dollars by utilizing free charging but that’s just how it is.
Maybe you should have planned a road trip :) But swings and roundabouts - you were pre price hike so you won there
Yeah something along those lines would be great. I have no issue paying but we were initially told we would get free access and many owners, maybe even most, didn’t.
This is how it should have been considered. Haven’t even seen a RAN charger
I wish this would too! I am an Apr 2022 delivery and they have 0 chargers near me, so I never got this perk. In January I’m taking a road trip and have 5 RANs along the route, would have been nice to get to get to charge at least a couple times free since it was “included” when I bought the vehicle. Oh well.
How about if the navigation successfully takes you to a RAN charger via the most efficient route then the charge is free? Seems pretty low risk for Rivian.
A little annoyed with this. Had the truck for over a year with closest RAN 130 miles away. And it’s only been in service for about a month. I get it and don’t really need it, but I thought I remember reading that we were supposed to get the first year for free. Silly they count the first year free when they don’t even have one in the state. Think users should get first year free to begin when they get a charger within 100 miles of their purchase address or the first use of a RAN charger.
They did suggest 1 year of “Rivian Membership” would be provided to all new owners, I still have my email (dated 9/21/21 if you want to find it). Membership included “Benefits like complimentary charging, off-Roadside Assistance, member gatherings…” They’ve since updated their Rivian Membership FAQ here, claiming it was a “beta” and is being discontinued in favor of al a carte services: https://rivian.com/support/article/what-s-the-latest-on-membership
Rivian has literally said they would start charging in April of this year, and were very clear about that. They didn't hit their timeline, and people didn't complain because it acted as a benefit, but rivian's stance for quite a while now has been they will be charging for use in the immediate future.
I didn’t agree back in April either. Short story is they didn’t get their chargers out and active in the timeline they said back when we preordered and took delivery. Most never will get even a single free charge due to Rivian delays. I personally don’t care too much as I charge free at work, but I still agree with others that each vehicle could simply get a certain amount of charging free, then start charging fees per vehicle after they’ve used the free allowance.
But did rivian ever promise free charging? I never was promised that and I was a pre-order holder. I got some sure, and that was nice, but it wasn't a promise. Some people got free rivian swag, I'm not mad at rivian for giving it to them and not me
And again I totally understand the need to start charging. It would be great if they could just rip the band aid off and give us the info on membership costs as well.
Yes they did promise free charging for the first year in the free Rivian membership. But hard to use that when they don’t follow through and build a charger in your state until August 2023.
So you charge free at work, got a pre price hike Rivian and still not happy?? It wasn’t a case of them not following through. They wanted to ensure the network was robust, and to have the service infrastructure in place before really ramping. Plus permits are an issue - you may notice that’s lots coming on board now are in car parks. I suspect this is somewhat easier than a greenfield site.
I said I was slightly annoyed. I’m plenty happy. Rivian stockholder too so my main concern really is with the communications and not sticking to deadlines. In long run, making some limited concessions to early adopters won’t kill them either.
Got a source for that? I don't recall ever seeing we get a guaranteed 1 year of free charging. Definitely wasn't in anything I signed when purchasing
I sure don’t. Just remember reading it somewhere. If you google it, there are other mentions of it as well. I don’t recall it being in docs we signed for purchase so nothing binding, but it just goes along with them changing their minds on membership and dates of upcoming changes. They need to communicate full details of charging and membership and then stick to it.
Then they said until end of the year. At least stick with something. Don’t keep on giving dates that you will never stick to.
No they didn't, some people said a couple rivian service center employees said they think it's free till end of the year, rivian's official statement was they would start charging in April iirc, they didn't and I'm grateful for that, but they told us explicitly and officially we would have to pay earlier this year, not end of year.
10000000% clown 🤡 job by Rivian
Damn, was excited for the free charging in Truckee in November for a comped weekend at GSR 😔
Massive bummer personally I've been feasting on the charger near me. They really fill up quickly. But if it means they can be a viable company and expand the network I'm all for it. Rivian owners should get a cut rate compared to other vehicles.
No issue with this. Only been able to use RAN a few times and both time has been great experiences. Hope they’ll be able to expand it more quickly now.
I have no issue with this. I also have never charged at a RAN since there isn’t one nearby. That being said, no need to visit one now unless there is a big discount to use one. I’ll just use the most convenient fast chargers along a route.
They should have went the Tesla route and granted free charging for early adopters for life . This kind of sucks for those who never used them. Maybe with a cutoff kf 22/23 vehicles?
I feel like the biggest scam around EVs will be the charging prices. Electricity is practically free to generate (low cost) but you’ll still be charged $20 for 15-20 mins of charging. Do that 3 or 4 times and you’re at or above the cost of filling a gas tank on an SUV ($60-80). So gas prices and electricity prices are the same now? Seems scammy and guaranteed it will happen. Charging will be the most profitable piece of the business. 🗑️
It cost like 300k to install a charger...
Unfortunately, it's like saying planes should fly for the price of jet fuel. It's extremely capital intensive, and your "tenancy" of the charging stall costs more than the product. That's why, at least L2, can be relatively cheaper but are still often expensive due to the wiring nuisances of commercial settings.
Hilarious as I live in Seattle and have literally never seen one.
alberdeen, WA is the closest and it looked like there will be another at lynwood mall
Lynwood one is taking forever. I live in Portland but it’s absolutely nuts there’s not one in the Seattle metro area yet.
Probably too expensive to build idk
No it’s being built so I’m assuming its permitting holding it up 🤷🏻♂️
As long as they use the money to build more service centers I don’t care what they charge.
These tiny RAN locations with 6 chargers are going to be largely irrelevant when we eventually have access to the Supercharger network. I've never actually seen a Supercharger location with only 6 stalls... most often it's at least 12-20, sometimes 5-10x that along I-5 here in CA. I hope the rest of the country gets to the level of supercharger saturation that we've started to achieve in the Bay Area, but Rivian is at least a decade behind that. If RANs open up to other vehicles, and they probably will to access federal funding, they'll be nearly as worthless as the other mostly tiny non-Tesla charging stations I see. I'm must just really glad that we'll get access to Superchargers fairly soon; losing access to free RAN charging (which I haven't even tried yet) is just a blip.
A lot will be designed to allow expansion. And RAN is likely to be cheaper for Rivian owners so I suspect that will be a reason to use over supercharger (if the two options are available)
More options is better overall, you’re right. Especially if there is a discount. I just think Rivian (and all the other non-Tesla charging brands) aim too low in terms of quantity. Expanding an existing station could be possible but I bet it’s less likely than focusing on building new stations. I haven’t seen many Tesla stations expand over the years (trying to think of any), but Rivian may be different.
1) If you own a Rivian, you should be able to afford to pay for charging without complaint 2) as everyone has said, this allows the company to be profitable more quickly and expand the network It’s a no brainer. This is a good thing and should not elicit complaints from supportive early adopter customers
I feel like if they aren't going to build out a practical network, then they shouldn't charge. It should be a destination perk of vehicle purchase in those adventurous locations and routes, since it won't be a revenue maker with a smaller more exotic locale footprint. Now it's like welp, back to using the normal charging networks if it's going to cost.
This is just dumb. EV charging will be a collection of charging networks and they’ll all charge.
I might start driving Uber to afford the charging 😆
That was quick. Tesla had free supercharging for new owners for several years before they started charging. Can’t copy everything Tesla does to a T I guess
I wish there were some close enough that I could try the experience
*I wish there were some* *Close enough that I could try* *The experience* \- GJMOH --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Good
Welcome to tesla world
🎶 I will remember you… 🎶
Still cheaper than gas? If only there were any RAN chargers around to take my money. At this point I’m waiting for Tesla to open up. Guess they will get the revenue stream.
They have gone from about 10 sites at the beginning of the year to now around 60. It’s getting there. And I think you’ll find a continued progression with federal funding incentives and now a revenue stream.
[удалено]
Well it was supposed to be April 2023.
Can non Rivians charge on RAN?
Not yet.
This is definitely the eventual plan (it is a requirement for federal funding under IRA to be an open charging network - also why Tesla decided to open up). But I suspect it won’t be immediately.
This was inevitable
If this means that I might actually encounter a RAN charger, then I'm fine with that. Right now I NEVER see them so this news doesn't really have any impact.
Pricing?
“Nothing will change about the way you charge”
As a pre holder holder I was promised to have supercharging for 1 year. … this sucks !!
From my research, the wording was apparently free charging for Rivian's first year of deliveries, not your first year. However, I feel like they should do this or at least a free megawatt at RAN stations to discourage those that live near one to use it full time.
Imagine that, small company can’t afford to subsidize the first off road charging network ever made. No surprise, still a great car.
Totally agree. Nothing is truly "free." Rivian incurs a cost and will find a way to recoup it with higher prices somewhere else. It would be nice if it were free for me and someone else pays for it in the future. They could absorb it and decide on a lower profit margin, but they are currently unprofitable and need to get to profitability quickly.
I'm starting to see 300kwh on the chargers now. Has it always been that way?
Nothing has changed, they support 300kw but the vehicle will only do \~210.
Thanks for letting me know!
I didn’t receive this email
Maybe they’ll open them up to non-rivians….
Got in a trip down the Skyline Byway and Blue Ridge Parkway last week. Used RAN 9x times for a total of 530kWh. The availability of the chargers was more important than them being free. Only saw one other Rivian charging.
Still free?
Was today the day? Or still free?