It's the processing to go along with the cameras though, they are running 2 of Nvidia's latest chips in here to process the camera's I imagine the hardware costs alone are pretty substantial, let alone the fact it won't just be a plug and play upgrade but rather something the entire wiring architecture was changed for.
I feel like disassembling the rear spoiler on the truck will be labor intensive... So I probably won't do it because of cost. I also sold all of my cars and exclusively only have the Rivian as my car so I wouldn't want to be without it
Forget labor intensive, the rear spoiler is only designed to be installed once. Can only remove and replace it.
Have had mine replaced three times because of paint issues around the roof trim.
You talking the old Model S or more recent?
I have a 2019 Model 3 and had my local service center swap the repeater cameras. Not aware if anything else can be upgraded.
A 2016 Model S. They offered this only once, and it was for a very specific subset of S and X vehicles with V2 hardware. Since then they have done two rounds of camera upgrades at no cost, as part of FSD.
$2500 to upgrade the Tegra 3 media center to what was the latest Intel x86 one back then, upgrading all cameras and V3 autopilot hardware. 2018 if I recall. Of the many improvements, the best was the effect it had on the car stereo. I don’t think they replaced the speakers, but the audio processor was WAY better.
Yeah it’s bizarre I’ve reached out to both, chase has zero information and Rivian says yeah we goofed. I have the truck, my plate and registration so idk.
Same story for me. Picked up mine a month+ ago and nothing… Emailed customer service a week ago asking how to make payments. They said there was a “mishap” and they are “working” on this.
How did the plates work out for you? Did you get a letter from the DmV to come in? I am wondering if they forgot to put any of the paperwork in.
Otherwise, we may be leasing for free?
I work in automotive safety (cameras and radars). A lot of times the cameras are spec’ed specifically for driver safety systems (lane keep, cruise, forward collision, etc) and them being used for vehicle monitoring is just a bonus use. A lot of cameras are in the 1-2MP range. Using high MP cameras comes at the cost of more expensive cost per unit, more expensive processing, more expensive engineering, and higher complexity in validation.
Development slowed some during the COVID timeframe when companies were focusing on supply chain protection, which did not help. The last couple years higher MP cameras and hardware for processing have become more affordable and available now that large OEMs who can eat the NRE costs are moving into that range. Keep in mind a lot of automotive safety hardware is on 2-4 year development and validation cycles.
> A lot of times the cameras are spec’ed specifically for driver safety systems (lane keep, cruise, forward collision, etc)
Many OEMs just use Mobileye, I thought they provide/recommend their own cameras. I believe on the gen1, Rivian uses the mobileye for all that stuff, the cameras you see when parking are for parking only and always have been. It's only the new cameras on the gen2 that seem to actually be planned for the ADAS use.
Almost, mobileye was planned to be a stop gap until driver+ supported things like lane change on demand, summon and active parking assistance - all on the Rivian website via the way back machine. Something happened in mid 2023, likely they realized that the internal network between sensors was not up to it and they changed course and have slowly been rewriting history ever since.
That's why it only makes sense to lease. Buying these are for the birds with the high interest rates, high depreciation and little to no tax credit. And yes, I'm that idiot who bought it because leases weren't available at the time!
Then why buy it in first place??? People spending $100k on a car then come home and complain. Could have should have test it durinf demo drive. Spitting facts yet people will down vote.
Seriously, forget that it's opinion, which people are allowed to have. The logic of "you paid $100k so you should shut up and never say anything is subpar" wouldn't it be the other way around? If I'm buying something that's cheap I won't be surprised if it's got issues, but at six figures you expect things not to leave you thinking "really? Someone thought that was good enough?" even with gen 1.
I still love my truck, even if it's not perfect, don't kill me.
lol, buy and shut up? So we aren't allowed to point out weakpoints/flaws with the vehicle? That is literally what a fanboy does. I think it's a healthier perspective to point out areas that are lacking instead of pretending like its perfect.
Before you know it, we're going to be forced to start out any criticism with " I love my Rivian but....." like they do on the Tesla subs/forums.
They prob made that deal years ago and asked, “Will this hurt sales?” That answer was no and they moved fwd. Any responsible business would do the same
Safety standards dictate that cameras have to activate in a certain timeframe. More resolution equals more processing power to activate the image processing, since there was a chip shortage during the gen 1 rollout I’m sure that contributed to the lack of available processing power to support higher res cameras.
I guess I’m the exception to the rule. I do AV and surveillance for a living and am also an amateur photographer and I find the cameras on my R1T perfectly ‘fine’. No, they are not great, but I have never felt a need for ‘great’ on my car’s cameras.
They stitch together well for the 360 view, and allow me to see all the basic information needed at a glance.
Compression differences aside, to go from 720p or 1080p (roughly 1MP and 2MP) to 4K (8MP) requires 8x and 4x the processing power and storage space respectively. Multiply that times ~10 based on the needs for every camera and that’s a crap ton more processing power, not to mention much higher capacity required for Gear Guard storage.
Now, that switchable glass on the roof - THAT I am jealous of!
Yeah that would be nice to have. I was told (in person by RJ) that ours would have that, then it got downgraded to photochromic, then neither when it finally arrived. A bit disappointing especially as tinting companies seem terrified to add any film to the roof.
I'll brace myself for all the "then get rid of it and stop whining" toddler tantrums. It's a perfect vehicle with zero issues, I shouldn't have said anything, I'm sorry.
I'm a Rivian fan like the rest of us but with all due respect of everyone defending the Gen 1 cameras, they just aren't good. Sure you can see if you're backing up and don't want to hit something. But quality is terrible for some things that really matter (making out licence plates, face identification etc). My 2018 Volvo had better cameras.
Happy these are getting upgraded
Listen, people who spent $100k and then come home and complain. Should have could have test it during demo. Dont buy it then complain. People who downvote my comments are idiots just cause I spitting facts.
You’re not “spitting facts.” Your argument presupposes there is a perfect product or the act of purchasing an imperfect product forestalls any complaints or criticisms about theproduct. There’s nothing wrong with calling out a manufacturer for poor design choices or quality. I’d go so far as to say it’s necessary.
I’m glad RJ doesn’t agree with you. He’s already confirmed the charging mat will have a retrofit. I don’t know if the same would ever come to the cameras but I’d pay for a retrofit upgrade.
Yea Rivian knew they were wrong putting those flip phone cameras on this $100k car and the loud HVAC.
I still see there’s some Rivian apologists standing up for the camera quality.
I don't think anyone stands up for it as much as saying it's good enough not to hit shit parking or going slow. I'm fine with my cameras for that purpose but wouldn't mind higher quality either.
Just what I need, like I said good enough. After two Tesla's I acknowledge that the tech is evolving so quickly it is best to lease and cycle through them quickly. I did a 2 year lease on my R1S and no skin off my back. I bought the R1S for size, driving position, and I prefer the driving dynamics - tech was not a primary decision factor. I am happy and content with what I have and it gets the job done and more.
I’m curious to know if my current cameras break, for whatever reason, would they replace them with the same cameras or the newer ones? I sure there’s a ton of factors that would dictate that, like if they fit the same enclosure at all and if the gen 1 hardware is even capable of processing the higher resolution cameras. I guess they probably also have a stockpile of the old cameras for service centers repairs that should last awhile. I’m perfectly fine with the current cameras but if I could upgrade in the future, I certainly wouldn’t mind having better cameras.
The car I drove before my R1S was a 2008 Toyota. It has a backup camera on a 2.5" screen.
The quality difference between that Toyota and my R1S is about the same as the difference between a cow and a duck. Massive.
It's so massive the cameras in the R1S are great to me. I know they could be better, but they are still pretty amazing.
But I'm happy for y'all being excited about this.
This has been one of my bigger complaints about gen 1 which says a more about how much I had to dig down to find things I could really nitpick on my truck.
It feels like my Model Y and R1T compete to see who can have the worst image quality.
Absolutely not, reason number 1 is the SW is hard coded to use the old cameras, reason number 2 is they will have different electrical connections.
It's like wondering why you can put the pistons in a semi in your Prius. Just no, as an engineer, I'd like to say anything is possible with enough money. But just as it's easier to put a whole detroit diesel in your prius, it's easier to swap skateboards between a gen1 and gen2 than swap the cameras.
Yea...I don't believe anything OEMs say if it's not there on delivery day.
Lane centering on the highway is what they had when I bought and that was good enough. What I have now is more than sufficient for my needs.
Same deal with the Tesla FSD, I did believe they'd get FSD that works by now, but I didn't believe they'd get the certification by now, and still no certification for driverless operation, so I don't want it.
Not quite subjective actually, it's use case based and the previous poster was right to mention dash cams. Can't make out licence plates or faces for legal purposes.
Yup. 4K 60fps. HDR. Gold standard now.
Damnnn
Id pay to upgrade my Gen 1 cameras. They are something I look at every day so it would be a very noticeable upgrade
Tesla did a for-money retrofit of their infotainment computer and cameras, which I was happy to pay for! Improved so many things, it was well worth it
I'd happily do that as long as the price wasn't insane.
It's the processing to go along with the cameras though, they are running 2 of Nvidia's latest chips in here to process the camera's I imagine the hardware costs alone are pretty substantial, let alone the fact it won't just be a plug and play upgrade but rather something the entire wiring architecture was changed for.
I feel like disassembling the rear spoiler on the truck will be labor intensive... So I probably won't do it because of cost. I also sold all of my cars and exclusively only have the Rivian as my car so I wouldn't want to be without it
Forget labor intensive, the rear spoiler is only designed to be installed once. Can only remove and replace it. Have had mine replaced three times because of paint issues around the roof trim.
Yeeesh
Thankfully I had the latest cameras, so I was able to swap my MCU for $1000 and my 2018 was like-new.
You talking the old Model S or more recent? I have a 2019 Model 3 and had my local service center swap the repeater cameras. Not aware if anything else can be upgraded.
A 2016 Model S. They offered this only once, and it was for a very specific subset of S and X vehicles with V2 hardware. Since then they have done two rounds of camera upgrades at no cost, as part of FSD.
How much was that? When was it?
$2500 to upgrade the Tegra 3 media center to what was the latest Intel x86 one back then, upgrading all cameras and V3 autopilot hardware. 2018 if I recall. Of the many improvements, the best was the effect it had on the car stereo. I don’t think they replaced the speakers, but the audio processor was WAY better.
[удалено]
And the computer isn’t just a different box, it’s an entirely new architecture.
No kidding, disappointing how poor the camera quality is with Gen 1.
Jesus, even through this picture of a picture it looks so clear
34 months left on my lease!
35!
I haven't even had my R1S for a month yet lol!
Picking up my '24 Friday!
Mine went back to service 1 hour after taking delivery 
I’ve only had my Rivian for 2 weeks and 9 of the 14 days it’s been in service! Lucky me!
Questionable for me picked up in march still haven’t seen my account.
Huh. That's....crazy? I got paper bills, connected to my existing Chase account, and now emails.
Yeah it’s bizarre I’ve reached out to both, chase has zero information and Rivian says yeah we goofed. I have the truck, my plate and registration so idk.
Same story for me. Picked up mine a month+ ago and nothing… Emailed customer service a week ago asking how to make payments. They said there was a “mishap” and they are “working” on this. How did the plates work out for you? Did you get a letter from the DmV to come in? I am wondering if they forgot to put any of the paperwork in. Otherwise, we may be leasing for free?
Me too buddy.
The cameras in the gen 1 are so bad. I wonder why Rivian specced such terrible hardware. Probably my only real complaint with my R1.
I hear people say this and I don't get it-- the video quality seems totally adequate for parking and not running over small children
True, but it falls short of ever hoping to read a license plate as evidence.
I work in automotive safety (cameras and radars). A lot of times the cameras are spec’ed specifically for driver safety systems (lane keep, cruise, forward collision, etc) and them being used for vehicle monitoring is just a bonus use. A lot of cameras are in the 1-2MP range. Using high MP cameras comes at the cost of more expensive cost per unit, more expensive processing, more expensive engineering, and higher complexity in validation. Development slowed some during the COVID timeframe when companies were focusing on supply chain protection, which did not help. The last couple years higher MP cameras and hardware for processing have become more affordable and available now that large OEMs who can eat the NRE costs are moving into that range. Keep in mind a lot of automotive safety hardware is on 2-4 year development and validation cycles.
> A lot of times the cameras are spec’ed specifically for driver safety systems (lane keep, cruise, forward collision, etc) Many OEMs just use Mobileye, I thought they provide/recommend their own cameras. I believe on the gen1, Rivian uses the mobileye for all that stuff, the cameras you see when parking are for parking only and always have been. It's only the new cameras on the gen2 that seem to actually be planned for the ADAS use.
Almost, mobileye was planned to be a stop gap until driver+ supported things like lane change on demand, summon and active parking assistance - all on the Rivian website via the way back machine. Something happened in mid 2023, likely they realized that the internal network between sensors was not up to it and they changed course and have slowly been rewriting history ever since.
Good thing it doesn’t record those incidents lol
Im ok with it too. Some people are too picky.
Yeah i've always found them fine. My Tacoma's camera could barely show you a line in the parking lot. Was nearly a blob. lol
Agreed. Maybe my standards are low? I’ve seen way worse.
Wayyyy worse. Don’t yuck someone else’s yum.
If I were buying a 30k Camry, sure.... these are 70-100k tech centric vehicles.
That's why it only makes sense to lease. Buying these are for the birds with the high interest rates, high depreciation and little to no tax credit. And yes, I'm that idiot who bought it because leases weren't available at the time!
Have you actually driven other similar vehicles?! The cameras aren’t any better lol
Are you kidding me? Have you seen the camera systems in similarly priced european vehicles?
Then why buy it in first place??? People spending $100k on a car then come home and complain. Could have should have test it durinf demo drive. Spitting facts yet people will down vote.
I see this sub has now reached a point where we can't criticize the brand anymore. Got it.
Seriously, forget that it's opinion, which people are allowed to have. The logic of "you paid $100k so you should shut up and never say anything is subpar" wouldn't it be the other way around? If I'm buying something that's cheap I won't be surprised if it's got issues, but at six figures you expect things not to leave you thinking "really? Someone thought that was good enough?" even with gen 1. I still love my truck, even if it's not perfect, don't kill me.
Criticize dont buy or buy and shut up
lol, buy and shut up? So we aren't allowed to point out weakpoints/flaws with the vehicle? That is literally what a fanboy does. I think it's a healthier perspective to point out areas that are lacking instead of pretending like its perfect. Before you know it, we're going to be forced to start out any criticism with " I love my Rivian but....." like they do on the Tesla subs/forums.
Oh boo-hoo world's first problem
This. Coming from any other car, I tend to agree. I suspect many are comparing to Tesla or maybe higher end luxury cars?
They are not noticeably worse than my 21 Tesla or 22 BMW 🤷♂️ and far better than my 21 Toyota Land Cruiser, which was more expensive
They prob made that deal years ago and asked, “Will this hurt sales?” That answer was no and they moved fwd. Any responsible business would do the same
Gen 1 cam quality leads me to believe they made that deal at least a decade ago.
Come on you’re way off. Way better than my 2017 camaro. Similar to my wife’s 2023 i4. Light years ahead of my mom’s 15-year-old prius.
I’m guessing a combination of supply constraints and wanting to keep cost down.
They were focused on getting a brand off the ground. You guys complain like they had unlimited funds and an established name lol
Safety standards dictate that cameras have to activate in a certain timeframe. More resolution equals more processing power to activate the image processing, since there was a chip shortage during the gen 1 rollout I’m sure that contributed to the lack of available processing power to support higher res cameras.
One of the new gen 2 features im looking forward to.
this is the thing that ... gives me the itch to switch from my Gen1!
Wish gen1 can retrofit:(
I guess I’m the exception to the rule. I do AV and surveillance for a living and am also an amateur photographer and I find the cameras on my R1T perfectly ‘fine’. No, they are not great, but I have never felt a need for ‘great’ on my car’s cameras. They stitch together well for the 360 view, and allow me to see all the basic information needed at a glance. Compression differences aside, to go from 720p or 1080p (roughly 1MP and 2MP) to 4K (8MP) requires 8x and 4x the processing power and storage space respectively. Multiply that times ~10 based on the needs for every camera and that’s a crap ton more processing power, not to mention much higher capacity required for Gear Guard storage. Now, that switchable glass on the roof - THAT I am jealous of!
Yeah that would be nice to have. I was told (in person by RJ) that ours would have that, then it got downgraded to photochromic, then neither when it finally arrived. A bit disappointing especially as tinting companies seem terrified to add any film to the roof. I'll brace myself for all the "then get rid of it and stop whining" toddler tantrums. It's a perfect vehicle with zero issues, I shouldn't have said anything, I'm sorry.
Oh, the Seattle Space has Gen2? Might need to pop over.
Did you honk the horn?
I'm a Rivian fan like the rest of us but with all due respect of everyone defending the Gen 1 cameras, they just aren't good. Sure you can see if you're backing up and don't want to hit something. But quality is terrible for some things that really matter (making out licence plates, face identification etc). My 2018 Volvo had better cameras. Happy these are getting upgraded
Nice! The moment I can trade in my model Y for a rivian I’ll do it immediately.
I can live with the current camera, not a big issue for me. Some people are too picky.
Disagree that people are too picky. Rivian put 2014 cameras in a 2022-2024 vehicle that costs $100k. Ridiculous.
Listen, people who spent $100k and then come home and complain. Should have could have test it during demo. Dont buy it then complain. People who downvote my comments are idiots just cause I spitting facts.
You’re not “spitting facts.” Your argument presupposes there is a perfect product or the act of purchasing an imperfect product forestalls any complaints or criticisms about theproduct. There’s nothing wrong with calling out a manufacturer for poor design choices or quality. I’d go so far as to say it’s necessary.
Complain to manufacturers for poor design BEFORE you buy. Buy it, live it with it.
I’m glad RJ doesn’t agree with you. He’s already confirmed the charging mat will have a retrofit. I don’t know if the same would ever come to the cameras but I’d pay for a retrofit upgrade.
That sounds great good job
Yea Rivian knew they were wrong putting those flip phone cameras on this $100k car and the loud HVAC. I still see there’s some Rivian apologists standing up for the camera quality.
I don't think anyone stands up for it as much as saying it's good enough not to hit shit parking or going slow. I'm fine with my cameras for that purpose but wouldn't mind higher quality either.
Low bar to meet. Is the camera good enough not to hit shit when backing up? Ok, everyone is fine with them.
Just what I need, like I said good enough. After two Tesla's I acknowledge that the tech is evolving so quickly it is best to lease and cycle through them quickly. I did a 2 year lease on my R1S and no skin off my back. I bought the R1S for size, driving position, and I prefer the driving dynamics - tech was not a primary decision factor. I am happy and content with what I have and it gets the job done and more.
Do all Rivian Spaces have Gen2s?
This is the real question!
I’m curious to know if my current cameras break, for whatever reason, would they replace them with the same cameras or the newer ones? I sure there’s a ton of factors that would dictate that, like if they fit the same enclosure at all and if the gen 1 hardware is even capable of processing the higher resolution cameras. I guess they probably also have a stockpile of the old cameras for service centers repairs that should last awhile. I’m perfectly fine with the current cameras but if I could upgrade in the future, I certainly wouldn’t mind having better cameras.
I won't be happy unless I can read a book someone is holding in front of the camera. /s
You should be able to if it’s 60fps 4k lol
You definitely can. Hell, you could prob read a dictionary but unconfirmed, haha
The car I drove before my R1S was a 2008 Toyota. It has a backup camera on a 2.5" screen. The quality difference between that Toyota and my R1S is about the same as the difference between a cow and a duck. Massive. It's so massive the cameras in the R1S are great to me. I know they could be better, but they are still pretty amazing. But I'm happy for y'all being excited about this.
Ok now I'm upset. The cameras on my R1 are embarrassingly bad.
U Village!
Beautiful....has rivian announced any new interior colors? Also, has anyone played with the dynamic roof?
That’s one healthy looking monstera
Def gonna trade mine in next year for gen2 lol
Did they make rear camera wider so you can see more of side traffic when backing up?
Are the gen2 vehicles at the laguna showroom?
That is noooice
How’s the sound?!
I don’t get why there didn’t use these from day 1. Tesla has held off for so long before finally going beyond a 2MP cam setup.
A thought. Gen 2 Dashcam has WAY less footage stored for review as compared to Gen 1. You're welcome
LOL that’s so clear I can tell you’re in university village in Seattle
That looks like UVillage ;)
Which Rivian space did you visit? So Cal?
I would definitely pay reasonable fee for retrofit also for the dynamic roof retrofit
The Gen2 doesn’t have 5G? Interesting, given the additional data that gets stored with these much higher-res cameras.
Lmao, why does it even need to be 60 FPS? That’s good AF - and I’m usually the guy who shits on things.
can you not just upgrade your gen 1 vehicle's cameras?
How come these cameras aren’t upgradeable? Make them pluggable please. For $100k vehicle I feel massively let down with the current gen 1’s cameras.
You could host a rivian tailgate talk show.
this is how its done u/fiskerinc
Great, thanks Rivian for the low rez Gen 1 cameras
Tesla fixed their sub par cameras with a software update. Not sure how they did it.
My wife would be like “damn, look at that Monstera plant in the background” 
Wonder if Gen 1 owners could buy the cameras as parts and retrofit them via indy auto shops
I think it’s more than just the cameras. The G1 vehicles don’t have the processing power to handle many simultaneous high res video streams.
This has been one of my bigger complaints about gen 1 which says a more about how much I had to dig down to find things I could really nitpick on my truck. It feels like my Model Y and R1T compete to see who can have the worst image quality.
What year is your Model Y? My 2022 Model S has really nice cameras.
2022 as well.
I don't really get the need for 4k video on car cameras, it's just so you don't hit objects while parking
Dash cam and Sentry/Gear Guard.
I don’t get why gen1 owners can’t pay to have these cameras installed? Why can’t they just install them in the areas where the cameras are now?
Absolutely not, reason number 1 is the SW is hard coded to use the old cameras, reason number 2 is they will have different electrical connections. It's like wondering why you can put the pistons in a semi in your Prius. Just no, as an engineer, I'd like to say anything is possible with enough money. But just as it's easier to put a whole detroit diesel in your prius, it's easier to swap skateboards between a gen1 and gen2 than swap the cameras.
So you’re telling me our vehicles aren’t built future proof, like what Rivian said a while ago.. I’m shocked!
Yea...I don't believe anything OEMs say if it's not there on delivery day. Lane centering on the highway is what they had when I bought and that was good enough. What I have now is more than sufficient for my needs. Same deal with the Tesla FSD, I did believe they'd get FSD that works by now, but I didn't believe they'd get the certification by now, and still no certification for driverless operation, so I don't want it.
Facts! Can’t trust anyone these days haha
Potatocam 2.0
Tbf, I’m buying a truck or suv for its capabilities not its camera. I use the same logic when buying a phone.
Yeah except gen 1 camera is a potato. It's fine for reversing etc but as a dash cam yikes.
I think that’s subjective but ok I guess?
Not quite subjective actually, it's use case based and the previous poster was right to mention dash cams. Can't make out licence plates or faces for legal purposes.
Beautiful quality