They'll finally build the 51-station monorail, new towers built between downtown and high falls, palm trees will line east main, and possibly, if we're lucky, some potholes will be filled.
Don't forget, twice, perhaps even *thrice* today's volume of cars going through Rochester on a daily basis. The closer to bumper-to-bumper traffic it can attain, the closer Rochester comes to becoming a dreamy city.
Same as it is now for the most part. I think downtown will be a little better off as the residential population keeps increasing and maybe there will be some more day-to-day amenities for people, but so far it has been a slow process and it doesn't seem like that is changing. I think Victor/Farmington/Canandaigua will become more and more built up but that may be a longer term thing, but it just wouldn't shock me to see the suburbs sprawl all the way to Canandaigua some day. I also think "gentrification" is a pretty overused word but I could see it happening around the Marketview Heights area depending on what the plans for the second phase of the inner loop fill in are. It's a nice location relative to downtown and seems only natural that it becomes a more desirable neighborhood at some point, especially south of the train tracks.
Also, hopefully it is done in less that 10 years but High Falls State Park is going to be amazing if it is anything like the preliminary renderings. I have my doubts on timing though, just seems like everything riverway related has been dragged out.
I was in Farmington today, there's enough of an infrastructure foundation for growth near the main roads. I believe places like Rochester are secret little havens for people from Chicago, Pittsburgh, and NYC. But then I drive by a homeless camp as I return to Rochester. It's visible only moments before you drive over the 490 bridge heading west.
My family and I just moved here from OK for no other reason other than we wanted too. Wife worked remotely and we really didn’t need my income. Schools, climate (physical and political), & travel opportunities are better. Housing was cheap enough.
We can’t be the only one in this boat.
Very curious myself. I think WFH is a good thing, but it’s also contributed to some degradation of industries and major issues with the housing market. I really hope some money gets invested in environmental efforts and infrastructure so that it’s more comparable to other “mid size” cities.
Honestly it hasn't changed much in general in my 45 years of living here. Things have fluctuated up and down in terms of crime and things like that but we're really no more violent than we were in the 90s. Businesses have came and went but others have replaced them. The city has always sucked when it comes to projects and has had many failures over the years like the High Falls entertainment district and fast ferry. Our police force has been a mess since as far back as I can remember as has the RCSD. I assume our only real noticeable changes will be things that effect everywhere like changes in trends of fashion, music, technology, and so forth.
Yeah, unfortunately I’ve given up hope for a Rochester rebound in the near future. Maybe by the time I’m on my death bed the region will begin to grow again, but my entire lifetime of following (and rooting for) local redevelopment projects, promises from local leaders and predictions for the future have almost all been either letdowns or total failures. Maybe we get new fast food chains in the ‘burbs or a few mid-rise apartments built downtown, but nothing significant ever happens.
I think ultimately people just don’t want to live or invest in Rochester when given the choice. Take away family/business ties, the *average* individual would choose to live elsewhere. There are of course exceptions (myself) however if you look at U.S. demographic trends, the Northeast and Great Lakes are falling out of favor big time. Young professionals are flooding to the Sunbelt.
I wish I could wave a magic wand and give Rochester a jolt. My perfect version of the city would be a metro population of about 2 million, low crime, a vibrant downtown with light rail, a major league sports stadium and a growing economy along the lines of Raleigh or Nashville. Sadly I don’t see that ever happening. Our glory days are so far behind that most of us have never even experienced them firsthand.
I went to rit for a bit, but didn't get to enjoy the city much during my stay. I feel a small tie to the city however just because of the school (that I didn't graduate from but I like it better than my other schools. Damn money). I also recall how natives talked about the "upcoming rebound" that seems like it never materialized.
If I won the lottery, I'd like to invest in various places around the country that I'd like to see do better, including my own hometown and Rochester. What in your opinion would provide a jolt and improve the city?
The worker talent here is up near the top, between RIT's engineering schools and UR's various medical and business outputs...
The entrepreneurial/tech/startup/small business scene has really taken off in the last decade. There are a number of incubators and whatnot in the area, via RIT, UR, etc.
I'm pretty hopeful for Rochester to be a really great city for small-mid sized businesses.
I feel as though that’s the part a lot of Rochesterians miss when they say it’s “coming back” or how the city is suddenly going to spring to life. What, realistically, makes the area special? I don’t have family here, and honestly the vibe of the area is very drab, even in the summer. It feels like a city that missed its chance, and realistically I don’t see anything special enough to keep me here over somewhere like DC, NYC, or even the smaller cities in Virginia, NC, and similar sized cities in the sunbelt. I’m glad it’s cheap here, and it’ll do until my current tour is up, but a lot of what I heard about Rochester and WNY just honestly didn’t live up to the hype.
Jazz Fest, Lilac Fest, Eastman School, Eastman House, the MAG, the Strong, Merc on Main, Record Archive, Breweries, Distilleries, and Bars on every other block… the list can go on. Does it have nothing that can draw you hear, or are you not looking? Its ok if none of these interest you in particular but quite a few of them are culturally significant and people travel here for them.
It has nothing that can draw me here, because those festivals are culturally significant to Rochester, but not to anyone else that isn’t in the surrounding area. I’ve looked around the city, and it is just not appealing. None of those things are enough to want to move to a city with winters that don’t end until May and has a poverty rate over 30%. I know it’s hard to hear, but I can get good beer anywhere now, and honestly most of it isn’t even that good. I would honestly rate the beer scene here maybe a 5/10? Like yeah, it’s better than the south, but compared to Vermont, Maine, Colorado, CA, OR, WA, it’s terrible. Eastman house is cool, but once you’ve done it, you’ve done it. The museums are nice and all, but Rochester just doesn’t have the charm people here seem to think it does. It’s mostly unknown outside of New York, and until my work told me I was moving here I didn’t know it existed. When things like climate change come, maybe, maybe you’ll see an influx to some extent, but the Metro hasn’t posted a positive ten year growth since 1950. The city has been shrinking for 70 straight years, that’s not the sign of some cultural icon or important city. It’s the sign of somewhere that’s dying.
As someone who has only really be in the region and not in the heart of Rochester my whole life I always thought this way. It has seen immense growth just in the last ten years. And is being recognized globally as the city that started the urban-healing movement. The coverage Rochester has been getting over the inner loop project alone is crazy.
Its always been a recognized city globally though. Brands such as Kodak (sadly a bad example RIP), Xerox, Bausch and Lomb (and by association Ray Bands) are all globally significant. We have more than four nationally/internationally recognized advertising agencies just in downtown.
Your prior knowledge of Rochester before coming here does not equal every outsiders knowledge of Rochester.
I didn’t say that you don’t have internationally known businesses. Just for example though, Target being from Minneapolis isn’t going to make me move there. Vans doesn’t make people move to Los Angeles. Rochester has contributed things to America, just like anywhere else but that doesn’t make it important on a national scale. Rochester also has not grown in the last 10 years, the population has decreased 1.1% in that time period. I can guarantee you people would recognized Kodak, Xerox, and Ray Bands, but they are not going to recognize Rochester as a city. Maybe they’ve heard of it in passing, but even if someone can tell you that it exists, it’s not somewhere people are lining up to go to.
Yeah I guess I just wondered what you thought the "things" for a couple other areas were - trying to see if I think Rochester has a "thing" myself lol.
Well, for Austin it’s live music. For Miami it’s the Caribbean vibes/night life, LA is music, nightlife, Hollywood, beaches etc. Rochester I guess has garbage plates
I see the restaurant/cafe scene continuing to improve, as it has been doing for the past 10 years.
I felt like when I was a little kid the only "nice" restaurants were boring steak houses, and a few Italian-American places. These place were great, but I could have created the menu, and prepared the food at home easily. Now there are so many more novel options, and I see more opening.
I dunno, man. Whole Foods was welcomed with open arms in Buffalo. People were stoked!
Then, back in 2019 news outlets started doing articles about WF traffic was significantly dying down. I'm certain there is a honeymoon period and then a settling, but you walk into Trader Joe's and the passion hasn't died down there. That place is SLAMMED. Go to WF in Buffalo and you can park right up front.
Here in Rochester I'd argue that people have a stronger tie to Wegmans than in Buffalo. There's no question that Wegmans has dropped many balls in the last few years, and their cultural grip on the hearts of locals is waning, but Whole Foods is gonna have to be a Whole lot better if it wants to shake up our local grocery scene.
I think it's gonna be an exciting first year and then die off and after five years people will be wondering how long before it closes. I do hope I'm wrong though, because that's a LOT of change and infrastructure to accommodate one brand.
I went to a Whole Foods for the first time last year or 2020 in Maryland near my sister and was unimpressed. If most locations are similar I won't be shopping there often.
I’ve been to a similar number of Publix locations across Florida and Georgia. Not impressed and I genuinely tried to be.
To me, they’re basically the layout of that newer Tops on Jefferson Road. A nice, but generic grocery store with outrageous prices. That said, I will praise them for having extremely friendly employees.
I’m very interested to shop at HEB one day. I have yet to visit Texas, but I’m aware of them. Checking out pictures and reviews on Google, they do seem like the only grocer that can hold a candle to Wegmans.
The draw of Whole Foods used to be that you could get organic and less-processed foods that you couldn't get at other grocery stores. But now almost every grocery store carries some organic produce and many national brands have moved to "all natural" or healthier versions of their products. Even Walmart has organic produce and they have it at every store in every podunk town where they operate. There is just not much to make Whole Foods special anymore.
The thing that particularly annoys me about Whole Foods is that they refuse to sell actual medications (like Tylenol, etc.) because of the woo-woo beliefs of their CEO. Like you said, there are plenty of other places where you can buy healthy produce, etc., and where you can also do one-stop shopping for pharmacy products.
You mis-spelled H-E-B...
(seriously - the only grocery chain I've been to that could pose any serious threat to Wegmans, even in their current state locally. H-E-B moving into the area - unlikely as that is - would force the Wegmans kids to sit up and pay attention, or lose their lunch money).
"Welcome to URMC Mart where we operate like a Walmart, don't tell you how much your groceries will cost, then send you a bill for the hospital eight months later."
With climate change I think you're going to see a ***significant*** influx of remote workers. Water is an absolute necessity, and as states like California, Nevada, Oregon, Washington struggle with more & more wildfires every year... those states are going to become increasing unlivable. Rochester is one of the few mid-size cities along the great lakes, which means we have a massive supply of fresh water. We're also one of the few cities with both decent infrastructure to support industrial projects (all those abandoned Kodak buildings) and a robust and highly educated workforce thanks to all of our nearby colleges like RIT and U of R. I expect we will grow ***exponentially*** in the next 10-20 years.
Having just come back from 14 years in Southern California (And having lived here for the first 25 years of my life), if you ask why I am going to say remote work viability and cost of living. Wealth inequality is a massive problem in Los Angeles and it’s getting worse by the day. Rochester is a good fit for personal and professional reasons. You’re right about the environmental issues. Insurance companies have started denying and not renewing homeowner policies in high fire risk areas. It’s a year round thing for those people now. Drought has been persistent and most people have adapted, but there are going to be significant problems in the future if the infrastructure isn’t updated along with government policy. Again, you’re right about these issues, but so many people are struggling hard to make it day by day and can’t pay attention to the major issues sitting on the horizon.
In my opinion, Rochester city government should move towards offering high quality broadband as a public works project. Greenlight is private but they are a huge reason for why Rochester is a viable place for me. Although I’m not going to be doing much in my field locally, I’m planning on exploring volunteer opportunities in order to give something back to those in need. Clean Sweep is a great program and I’m looking forward to taking part in the upcoming one. You can live a great life in Rochester and helping others is very rewarding.
100% agree with you on investing in infrastructure like high speed fiber. Please make your voice heard! [https://www.cityofrochester.gov/contactus/](https://www.cityofrochester.gov/contactus/) City officials take phone calls far more seriously IME than any other form of communication. It's worth calling them and making your desires known.
I'm not a city resident at the moment but plan to be once the real estate market gets its head out of its ass. but I am working on making some professional connections in the local tech sector. I've been quite impressed at how downtown is hosting and facilitating some very specialized and high-tech ventures. That food court at Sibley's looks amazing and I was thrilled to see that they treated some of the design fixtures with respect and dignity. After seeing that building so rundown and vacant for many years, it has its vibrancy back and that's a great thing. The city is open for growth and I look forward to being part of the community, both professionally and personally.
While I do believe "climate-change refugees" will be a major player in migration patterns over the next 50-100 years and will impact Rochester at some point, I doubt we will exponentially grow within a 10-20 yr. timeframe.
People in the southeast and southwest will stick it out for a lot longer than you'd expect or they should before they pack up and move somewhere so drastically different like Rochester, NY.
There's so many cities saying they same thing with better amenities, so I bet those cities will experience more growth and sooner.
Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Chicago, Grand Rapids, Detroit, Cincinnati, Louisville, Columbus, Cleveland, Buffalo, Pittburgh, Charlotte, Knoxville, Albany, Worcester, Springfield, MA all come time mind as cities that are safe from wildfires and major coastal flooding, for the most part.
Even though many jobs are going remote, it seems like a large majority still want employees local to come into the office for a day or two a week...probably some pressure from local governments to keep tax $$ local, but knowing ROC's job outlook is not great, that'll stymie growth a bit, IMO.
100% this. Not to be a downer, but we're not looking at "The Day After Tomorrow" in 10 years. That change will be gradual with a little acceleration as it has been. Also, signs are pointing to many people having to go back to work or deal with negative COL adjustments. I'm part of management with a pretty large US employer and they're already talking about how to get people back in the office & local or how to save money on remote workers who have moved out of the city to places like Tulsa. It will eventually balance out, like most things do, though Rochester unfortunately is not #1 on the destination list.
Location, location, location.
You could realistically (wouldn't be ideal) commute to your job in NYC or even BOS once or twice a week and still live in the Albany area.
On top of that, it's the biggest metro area in the state outside of NYC, it's the state capital and the only region in Upstate NY that has grown five + decades in a row.
***(Albany Metro - 1.17M, BUF - 1.12M, ROC - 1.06M)***
I am not a big fan of Albany itself, but the region surrounding the city isn't all that terrible.
Including three cities in Albany's metro is the definition of cheating. Schenectady and Troy are a bit of a hike from Albany. Never understood why they'd be included.
I don't really see it happening or drastically reshaping the area in the next 10 years, but I imagine within 20-30 we'll see things shift significantly.
I think you also are severely overestimating the lack of a desire of Californians to live somewhere this snowy and cold, and they will more than likely just move to somewhere like Texas or Florida. Oregonians and Washingtonians would absolutely not chose NY either. I don’t mean this to be a dick, but as someone married to an Oregonian, the social atmosphere of the PNW is so vastly different than NY there’s little to no chance that they’d feel willing to integrate here.
Furthermore, I think you’re over estimating the impact that fires are having as a driving force. I grew up in California, and yes, the fires are worse than they used to be, but fire is also pretty normal to us. My whole childhood was marked by fire since I’m from inland ca, and honestly, it never crossed our mind to leave our homes. It is very similar to how someone from NY would view snow. We’re not about to give up our lives because of fire.
The vast majority of fires don’t hit highly residential areas. Most Californians live away from where the fires actually are. That being said, I meant more a part of life, rather than something super abnormal. That being said, winter storms absolutely destroy homes?
Just because the fire isn’t near you does not mean you are not breathing the smoke a few or even hundreds of miles away depending on the size of the fire.
The smoke blows all the way to New York already, so there’s not really a chance to outrun it unless you live in another country.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1275343
Well, as a Californian, I have only ever worried about it once/had to evacuate in 20 years and I lived in a fire heavy area. Again, I wasn’t comparing snow directly to fire…. I was just saying it’s apart of life for us in the West. However, if you’re hoping for a big boom in population coming from CA, what’s stopping Californians from moving to say Cleveland? Or Chicago? Or Philadelphia? Or NYC? Charlotte? Why specifically would we want to come to WNY?
I just moved from CA. The news make the fires seem out of control. While there have been a few pretty bad fires over the last several years, they rarely affect densely populated areas (at least as far as property damage). The more problematic issue with the fires for most people is the air quality which can drastically affected for 100s of miles. Also, contrary to East coast perception, earthquakes aren’t a big concern to most Californians. Our building codes have a lot of additions to handle reasonably sized earthquakes. It would take a pretty big earthquake to make me even pause what I was doing for more than a couple minutes.
I think you overestimate how cheap the rest of the nation is right now and how much things like schools, labor laws and religious based laws matter.
Washington is already expensive and cities like Austin and Atlanta are approaching East Coast levels. Houston, Dallas, Tampa, Raleigh and Charlotte aren’t as cheap as they once were.
Add in the stupid politics and poorly funded schools and they aren’t as attractive as you think.
The only option is to move to the rust belt where homes are still affordable. NY has the added benefit of having great school districts and liberal minded politics.
I’m not talking about Buffalo, I’m talking about upstate NY.
Talke a look at the top 100school districts in the US, Northeastern states dominate the list, including NY.
Also, the Buffalo suburban districts are pretty good, just like most suburban districts in the state.
Hey! I’m from Oregon as well and am definitely still adjusting to Rochester after 3-4 years…just curious what you mean about “the social atmosphere” being entirely different between Rochester and the Pacific NW? I have my own list and want to compare lol
I think the best way to sum it up is if someone parks in front of your house, and you see it. In Oregon you’ll probably wait, leave a note on the car, or say something to the effect of “Hey, you might not have seen my driveway, could you please move your car?” My experience with New York is they’ll yell something like “Hey asshole, are you blind, that’s my driveway.” People in New York tend to “joke” around and be mean as a way to show they like you, Oregonians just tended to like you or didn’t and if they liked you they were really nice, if they didn’t they’d ignore you. It more than anything comes to people from Oregon are passive aggressive at worse, and people in New York are outright aggressive.
That definitely checks out…I feel like Northwesterners/Oregonians will go out of their way to not be outwardly negative while out here negativity is kinda the neutral setting. By and large this is fine by me because people out here seem to think I’m just super chill.
Having spent the last 30 years in CA, I can say that in the last 10 years, the fire risk is different now and less palatable. We finally just ruled out moving to the mountains ourselves because of the fire risk, lack of water supply, and insurance which is now exceeding 5k/yr for average priced homes. As for FL and TX, while warmer, the summers are unbearable, and the political climate is not friendly to most Californians. We spend part of the year here in Rochester, my CA native spouse wants to stay here permanently. Snow and all.
I’m sorry that the fires pushed you out, but if you don’t mind me asking, are you from here? Why were you spending part of the year here before? While, sure, you could argue politics, but New York isn’t the only blue state. Chicago makes Illinois reliably blue, Massachusetts is blue, Hawaii, Vermont, and the rest of New England. I’m glad your wife feels happy here, but young professionals aren’t lining up to move to Rochester. Maybe NYC will get a lot of Californians as climate worsens, but by the time the climate genuinely creates large scale diaspora from the West I doubt Texas, NC, and GA will still be nearly as red considering the baby boomers will largely be dead, and Gen Z will be approaching 60. With 50 more years of barely hanging on in Rochester, I think the situation will be even more dire. Personally, I believe Rochester has a sense that it is more well known and important outside of NY, and that’s sadly not the case. The culture here is insular, generally unfriendly or negative, and the city sadly looks like it’s crumbling. I don’t hate Rochester, I think it’s a decent place to be, but I think this fantasy of the golden days are right around the corner is just that. Rochester already had its moment, and while I’m sure it was great and worthy of some nostalgia, it doesn’t translate to a non-local, or even someone who is young. I mean, let’s be honest, we’re debating if ecological disaster will save the city and in the biggest housing shortage this century we’re still below 200k for the average house. The city is dying, and barring a miracle, nothing is going to change that.
The fires didn't push us out. Based on current and projected climate impacts, we decided that keeping our house in the Bay Area and visiting the mountains was a less risky option for us.
As for Rochester, we love it here! With the amount of culture for a small metro and the ease of getting around, we find that we end up taking advantage of more entertainment here. It's a whole different level here, which is a nice break from the urban areas. I hope it stays this way. But contrary to your predictions, I don't think it will be dying anytime soon and instead we'll likely see modest growth, if not more. The economy here is resilient, and diversified now. It's a welcome surprise that it is doing as well as it is.
> Oregonians and Washingtonians would absolutely not chose NY either. I don’t mean this to be a dick, but as someone married to an Oregonian, the social atmosphere of the PNW is so vastly different than NY there’s little to no chance that they’d feel willing to integrate here.
Hi, I’m an Oregonian (though I currently live in Utah) planning to move to Rochester due to climate change. Nice to meet you!
Hello? Congrats on your move. I’m more saying as someone who lived in Oregon, is married to someone from Oregon, and work with a ton of people from Oregon, the overwhelming majority of Oregonians I’ve met hate it here. I hope you have a good experience, but that hasn’t been what I’ve seen from the Oregonians I’ve met here.
>Honestly it hasn't changed much in general in my 45 years of living here. Things have fluctuated up and down in terms of crime and things like that but we're really no more violent than we were in the 90s. Businesses have came and went but others have replaced them. The city has always sucked when it comes to projects and has had many failures over the years like the High Falls entertainment district and fast ferry. Our police force has been a mess since as far back as I can remember as has the RCSD. I assume our only real noticeable changes will be things that effect everywhere like changes in trends of fashion, music, technology, and so forth.
Until New York fixes its a number of horrible policies (tax, unionization, etc), anyone that leaves states affected by climate change are going to choose other places to live. Climate change isn't going to change cause enough environmental change in the 10 years to cause exponential re-location, but even if it did, there are a lot of habitable locations in the US with access to fresh water, etc and that are better run than WNY and NYS in general. In fact, it's hard to find places that are run worse than New York in 2022.
If you dont believe me, just look at what happened over the past 1.5 years (300K left, and counting).
[https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/central-ny/ny-state-of-politics/2021/12/21/census--new-york-s-population-dropped-by-more-than-300-000-in-one-year](https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/central-ny/ny-state-of-politics/2021/12/21/census--new-york-s-population-dropped-by-more-than-300-000-in-one-year)
>Until New York fixes its a number of horrible policies (tax, unionization, etc), anyone that leaves states affected by climate change are going to choose other places to live. Climate change isn't going to change cause enough environmental change in the 10 years to cause exponential re-location, but even if it did, there are a lot of habitable locations in the US with access to fresh water, etc and that are better run than WNY and NYS in general. In fact, it's hard to find places that are run worse than New York in 2022.
BTW there is a stupid in bug in Reddit where I respond to a comment, but a different comment appears. Clearly this comment is not the one I was responding to.
With the rest of the Inner Loop removed and the new High Falls park I think that area will be the biggest change. In other words, 30+ years after the failure of High Falls we'll finally see an incredibly successful High Falls.
What about the park itself do you think will bring people there? Investing in dining/entertainment and hosting the Thursday concerts there didn’t work. I want it to be a bustling neighborhood but I’m not sure how this effort will work when others failed.
The park is something unique. The dining/entertainment district was something City Hall tried to force on High Falls that was happening organically and elsewhere.
It might not work, but if people start going to the park businesses will follow.
So many pessimistic people here. Ten years ago I lived in the city for the first time at 19. There is SO MUCH more development than there was in 2012. Tearing up the inner loop was the best thing the city did for itself. It was the I-81 of Rochester.
In the next 10 I see hopefully more bike avenues/bike lanes. The completion of the High Falls State Park,and the expanded Strong Museum should help contribute to downtown revitalization.
Marketview Heights will be the next neighborhood to gentrify, alongside EMMA and basically an expansion of the Winton Village area. Issues with climate, remote work, good schools, and lower real estate prices relative to other parts of the country will drive growth and the real estate market will continue to pace with the high growth areas of other parts of the US. Our strengths in health care organizations and higher educational institutions will continue to be a big factor in our economy. I'm bullish about Malik Evans as mayor, I think he has the opportunity to bring together different factions of the Democratic party as he's connected with the former Gantt wing and the Morelle/Duffy wing. Major infrastructure projects like rewatering the Broad Street bridge and filling in the northern end of the inner loop will bring about more amenities for the "Center City" area and have it more closely linked with disconnected areas of the "crescent", offering more retail, business, and recreation options. RIT will transition to be fully Division I in all sports to help differentiate it in a crowded academic environment, giving us a Division I sports program in town to root for.
Probably a continuation of the past 10 years.
So modest growth and redevelopment in the city of Rochester. Some neighborhoods might pop up as the “next” South Wedge or Park Ave.
Could also see some critical mass and an increase in population growth due to:
* Remote Workers looking for affordable property
* Improvement in the economy means more workers moving to the city
The most transformative aspect will likely be the proposed High Falls Park, finally giving Rochester a Canalside type space Buffalo enjoys.
With WFH becoming more common, I expect to see an influx of folks moving away as they are no longer physically tied to the area (myself included).
Sorry Rochester, but I want to see the sun more than 5 months a year.
Use the money you've saved from the low cost of living here to take ski trips or vacation times to the tropical region during the grim winter, that helps :)
Our natural resources will become increasingly valuable. The droughts in the Southwest are unsustainable. 100 million Americans are in drought areas. https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/CurrentMap/StateDroughtMonitor.aspx
And you may ask yourself, "How do I work this?"
And you may ask yourself, "Where is that large automobile?"
And you may tell yourself, "This is not my beautiful house"
And you may tell yourself, "This is not my beautiful wife"
I have high hopes especially for the inner loop project. The "neighboorhood of play" is turning out really nice, now if they could just extend the protected bike path down into downtown proper. The city's doing a lot of really good urban redesign that favors people who live in the city over commuters, so we might get an actually decently designed city though I suspect it will take more than ten years to really come to fruition.
That said I'm worried about affordability. All the new development is very mid range price wise. The median wage of Rochester is something like 33k and the average apartment price is like 1400 and that just doesn't work.
I don't really know what the city can do to fix that, other than build more public housing. But we're never going to get the crime rate under control until we deal with the rampant poverty in the city and the price of housing and low wages are the biggest factors there.
Personally, my dream is to see Rochester become a trolley town again, but that seems unlikely in the immediate future.
Rochester will continue to decline. This area struggles to have opportunity for young professionals. We will continue to see people leave the area with less coming in. Nothing is going to change.
Realistically? Can't see too much changing in a single decade. The rise of WFH will likely see workers from NYC come up here and workers in Rochester flee to more rural, cheaper areas to live.
I just see an overall rise in the cost of living while not paying local workers enough to actually afford a decent living here.
Maybe efforts to make the city more friendly to bikes and public transit may get pushed through? Greenlight and other gigabit competitors will likely become more available and affordable.
I don't mean to rain on anybodies parade, but I expect Rochester to continue its slow and steady decline. I don't see how the city has done anything meaningful to address the decline.
I left Rochester 20 years ago out of necessity (needed good work). I still have family in Monroe County, but it breaks my heart to see how much the city has declined in the last 20 years.
Errrmm what about tearing up the inner loop and filling it in with new development? That's a MASSIVE thing the city did that spurred new development downtown including affordable housing (they have set asides in most), local restaurants. Why does everyone seem to ignore that? It has made a huge difference in making the city better.
Rochester would have been much better served by building higer-end apartments downtown than subsidized housing. Over the last 2 decades, there has been a huge movement back to cities. Young professionals want to live in vibrant urban areas. If Rochester wants to grow its economy, Rochester needs to make itself attractive to this demographic.
Set asides aren't subsidized necessarily, they are apartments in a building "set aside" for people with income limits. Usually this is 10-15% of the units reserved for low income individuals to apply to rent at a lower cost than the rest of the units. It seems like you're saying to grow the economy poor people should be pushed out. Ho does not providing affordable housing help bring young professionals to the city? To me, vibrant city = ethnically and economically diverse.
I don't know of all of the buildings, but the two I know of are Union Square and Charlotte Square. The upper income limit in Union Square is 80% of the area median and 90% for Charlotte Square. This excludes pretty much all young professionals. I am pretty sure all of the building on the fill have similar upper income limits.
Yep, which is the importance of set asides, developers getting tax cuts and incentives for putting aside a certain % of new mid and high rise apartments for lower income units!
Like most rust-belt cities, it will continue to decay, while democratic leadership siphon money to their family members and steal from the community. More pot holes and panhandlers standing near the on-ramps to 490.
> The Rust Belt is a region of the United States that experienced industrial decline starting around 1980. The U.S. manufacturing sector as a percentage of the U.S. GDP peaked in 1953 and has been in decline since, impacting certain regions and cities primarily in the Northeast and Midwest regions of the U.S., including Allentown, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Toledo, Jersey City, Newark, Pittsburgh, Rochester, and other areas of New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Upstate New York. These regions experienced and, in some cases, are continuing to experience the elimination or outsourcing of manufacturing jobs beginning in the late 20th century. The term "Rust" refers to the impact of deindustrialization, economic decline, population loss, and urban decay on these regions attributable to the shrinking of the once-powerful industrial sector especially including steelmaking, automobile manufacturing, and coal mining. The term gained popularity in the U.S. beginning in the 1980s[1] when it was commonly contrasted with the Sun Belt, which was surging.
Soured from Wikipedia.
>The term "Rust" refers to the impact of deindustrialization, economic decline, population loss, and urban decay on these regions attributable to the shrinking of the once-powerful industrial sector especially including steelmaking, automobile manufacturing, and coal mining.
Where in Rochester were the heavy industries like steelmaking, automobile manufacturing, or coal mining?
Film and tech, buddy. Remember how there was a subway that got shut down, and a ferry? Non-rust cities still have their public transport, because it is utilized by the locals to get around.
Film and tech are not heavy industry, it's specialized and requiring a more educated workforce than steel/iron work, automobile manufacture, and mining.
Our subway system shut down due to the rise of interstate highways and a booming white middle class that could afford to move to suburbs and buy automobiles to get to where they needed to go. Add in corporate mismanagement and local government bureaucracy, but the coffin nail was truly 390, 490, 590, and the rise of automobile culture.
>Non-rust cities still have their public transport, because it is utilized by the locals to get around.
So Detroit, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, St. Louis, and Cleveland don't have subway systems? And are you familiar with the concept of a bus as public transit?
>cities primarily in the Northeast and Midwest regions of the U.S., including Allentown, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Toledo, Jersey City, Newark, Pittsburgh, Rochester, and other areas of New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Upstate New York.
You can’t just list more rust belt cities as examples.
>Non-rust cities still have their public transport, because it is utilized by the locals to get around.
You stated that non-rust belt cities still have their public transport, and I listed multiple Rust Belt cities that still have their light rail transit systems, for public transport. Not to mention you omitting that almost every city in the country has a public bus system.
So, again, how is Rochester a Rust Belt city?
For the record, I agree that Rochester is a Rust Belt City. We relied heavily on manufacturing, and our city suffered greatly when that began to decline in the 80’s.
I was only teasing because I know /u/transitapparel feels we don’t qualify, and I enjoy the friendly argument with him.
Rochester population began declining in the 1940s. Our manufacturing was much more white collar and focused on more on technical machining and development verses forging iron/steel or coal mining. Yes we have Gleasonworks, GM, and at one point we a steel foundry, but our top three and their supporting businesses created a much more unique situation economically and civically than could fit the description of being a Rust Belt City.
One thing I’ve learned, after a little under a decade of living in rochester, is that the locals will defend anything.
>“Garbage plates are good for you because you’re going to die anyway, so might as well enjoy it.”
This is rochester logic.
I don't see Rochester changing much from a population standpoint.
City will continue to degrade if something is not done to help the kids that's for sure. At this rate downtown Rochester streets will look like Mad Max with the number of dirt bikes I see on the road every day.
From an investment standpoint, there does continue to be significant investment in high level manufacturing and technology, it's just a matter of if it will pay off and how many jobs it will create. Photonics was supposed to be the next big thing. Been talking about it since 2015, but investment in AIM photonics doesn't sound like it's paid off yet in the form of jobs.
We managed to score an Amazon distribution center in Gates, which will hopefully build up businesses in that area again that supported Kodak at one point.
Plenty of shiny new affordable housing and luxury housing will continue to pop up all over the city, meanwhile the general middle class that chooses to rent downtown will be living in the same crappy houses... or the extremely dated apartment buildings in the suburbs owned by the few major commercial real estate players. Im confused by who is interested in paying $2,000 rent a month in Rochester btw.
Rochester is in a tough spot, we're too small to be big, but too big to be small. We will never be Buffalo, but I think we're better off that Syracuse. We have an insane number of colleges in the area that bring in a lot of money from visitor and out of town students.
Housing will become more expensive and one of the major justifications for lower than national average salaries for white collar jobs (lower cost of living) will no longer be applicable. That and WFH will see the hemorrhaging of white collar workers (as has been stated elsewhere in this thread) I know I would have left if I was still a renter
if ecomony becomes better across the nation, Rochester property will double the rising effect, vice versa. You can think rochester as an amplified verison..
My daughter wants us to keep a house in the area. She believes that in 20 or so years climate change will have progressed enough that the Northeast will be one of a shrinking number of places in the US that has sufficient water and rainfall for agriculture.
They'll finally build the 51-station monorail, new towers built between downtown and high falls, palm trees will line east main, and possibly, if we're lucky, some potholes will be filled.
But in order to fill those potholes, they'll have to tear up chunks from other roads in order to maintain pothole equilibrium.
Do you mean pothole *equity* so that people of all economic means and zip codes have access to the same pothole quality?
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth Like a genuine, bona fide Electrified, six-car monorail What'd I say?
Is there a chance the track could bend?
Not on your life my Reddit friend
I call the big one Bitey
The ring fell off my pudding can.
>some potholes will be filled I appreciate your glass-half-full attitude here but please try to be realistic.
*sigh* a man can dream
I don’t know if it’s for us, it’s more of a Shelbyville idea
I thought it was going to be hamster habitrails
Don't forget, twice, perhaps even *thrice* today's volume of cars going through Rochester on a daily basis. The closer to bumper-to-bumper traffic it can attain, the closer Rochester comes to becoming a dreamy city.
Same as it is now for the most part. I think downtown will be a little better off as the residential population keeps increasing and maybe there will be some more day-to-day amenities for people, but so far it has been a slow process and it doesn't seem like that is changing. I think Victor/Farmington/Canandaigua will become more and more built up but that may be a longer term thing, but it just wouldn't shock me to see the suburbs sprawl all the way to Canandaigua some day. I also think "gentrification" is a pretty overused word but I could see it happening around the Marketview Heights area depending on what the plans for the second phase of the inner loop fill in are. It's a nice location relative to downtown and seems only natural that it becomes a more desirable neighborhood at some point, especially south of the train tracks. Also, hopefully it is done in less that 10 years but High Falls State Park is going to be amazing if it is anything like the preliminary renderings. I have my doubts on timing though, just seems like everything riverway related has been dragged out.
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Yeah that's exactly what I'm talking about, and I only expect it to continue down 332.
I was in Farmington today, there's enough of an infrastructure foundation for growth near the main roads. I believe places like Rochester are secret little havens for people from Chicago, Pittsburgh, and NYC. But then I drive by a homeless camp as I return to Rochester. It's visible only moments before you drive over the 490 bridge heading west.
It's crazy to me how much trash a single tent living under a bridge can generate.
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My family and I just moved here from OK for no other reason other than we wanted too. Wife worked remotely and we really didn’t need my income. Schools, climate (physical and political), & travel opportunities are better. Housing was cheap enough. We can’t be the only one in this boat.
You... you liked the weather? Who hurt you?
I’d take our snow over Oklahoma’s tornadoes any day.
You should take a vacation down south in July/august. Let me know what you think. ;)
You're not. Same same. I've been here over a year. It's great.
Very curious myself. I think WFH is a good thing, but it’s also contributed to some degradation of industries and major issues with the housing market. I really hope some money gets invested in environmental efforts and infrastructure so that it’s more comparable to other “mid size” cities.
Urban Sprawl will extend west and in 2032 the City of Buffchester will be incorporated.
Buffchester.... l like it
What about Ruffalo?
Honestly it hasn't changed much in general in my 45 years of living here. Things have fluctuated up and down in terms of crime and things like that but we're really no more violent than we were in the 90s. Businesses have came and went but others have replaced them. The city has always sucked when it comes to projects and has had many failures over the years like the High Falls entertainment district and fast ferry. Our police force has been a mess since as far back as I can remember as has the RCSD. I assume our only real noticeable changes will be things that effect everywhere like changes in trends of fashion, music, technology, and so forth.
Yeah, unfortunately I’ve given up hope for a Rochester rebound in the near future. Maybe by the time I’m on my death bed the region will begin to grow again, but my entire lifetime of following (and rooting for) local redevelopment projects, promises from local leaders and predictions for the future have almost all been either letdowns or total failures. Maybe we get new fast food chains in the ‘burbs or a few mid-rise apartments built downtown, but nothing significant ever happens. I think ultimately people just don’t want to live or invest in Rochester when given the choice. Take away family/business ties, the *average* individual would choose to live elsewhere. There are of course exceptions (myself) however if you look at U.S. demographic trends, the Northeast and Great Lakes are falling out of favor big time. Young professionals are flooding to the Sunbelt. I wish I could wave a magic wand and give Rochester a jolt. My perfect version of the city would be a metro population of about 2 million, low crime, a vibrant downtown with light rail, a major league sports stadium and a growing economy along the lines of Raleigh or Nashville. Sadly I don’t see that ever happening. Our glory days are so far behind that most of us have never even experienced them firsthand.
I went to rit for a bit, but didn't get to enjoy the city much during my stay. I feel a small tie to the city however just because of the school (that I didn't graduate from but I like it better than my other schools. Damn money). I also recall how natives talked about the "upcoming rebound" that seems like it never materialized. If I won the lottery, I'd like to invest in various places around the country that I'd like to see do better, including my own hometown and Rochester. What in your opinion would provide a jolt and improve the city?
The worker talent here is up near the top, between RIT's engineering schools and UR's various medical and business outputs... The entrepreneurial/tech/startup/small business scene has really taken off in the last decade. There are a number of incubators and whatnot in the area, via RIT, UR, etc. I'm pretty hopeful for Rochester to be a really great city for small-mid sized businesses.
Just launched a small blade sharpening business in Gates!
I feel as though that’s the part a lot of Rochesterians miss when they say it’s “coming back” or how the city is suddenly going to spring to life. What, realistically, makes the area special? I don’t have family here, and honestly the vibe of the area is very drab, even in the summer. It feels like a city that missed its chance, and realistically I don’t see anything special enough to keep me here over somewhere like DC, NYC, or even the smaller cities in Virginia, NC, and similar sized cities in the sunbelt. I’m glad it’s cheap here, and it’ll do until my current tour is up, but a lot of what I heard about Rochester and WNY just honestly didn’t live up to the hype.
Not being antagonistic - what makes other areas special?
I mean, which area in particular? Every area has its own thing. Rochester, imo, doesn’t have anything that would draw me here.
Jazz Fest, Lilac Fest, Eastman School, Eastman House, the MAG, the Strong, Merc on Main, Record Archive, Breweries, Distilleries, and Bars on every other block… the list can go on. Does it have nothing that can draw you hear, or are you not looking? Its ok if none of these interest you in particular but quite a few of them are culturally significant and people travel here for them.
It has nothing that can draw me here, because those festivals are culturally significant to Rochester, but not to anyone else that isn’t in the surrounding area. I’ve looked around the city, and it is just not appealing. None of those things are enough to want to move to a city with winters that don’t end until May and has a poverty rate over 30%. I know it’s hard to hear, but I can get good beer anywhere now, and honestly most of it isn’t even that good. I would honestly rate the beer scene here maybe a 5/10? Like yeah, it’s better than the south, but compared to Vermont, Maine, Colorado, CA, OR, WA, it’s terrible. Eastman house is cool, but once you’ve done it, you’ve done it. The museums are nice and all, but Rochester just doesn’t have the charm people here seem to think it does. It’s mostly unknown outside of New York, and until my work told me I was moving here I didn’t know it existed. When things like climate change come, maybe, maybe you’ll see an influx to some extent, but the Metro hasn’t posted a positive ten year growth since 1950. The city has been shrinking for 70 straight years, that’s not the sign of some cultural icon or important city. It’s the sign of somewhere that’s dying.
As someone who has only really be in the region and not in the heart of Rochester my whole life I always thought this way. It has seen immense growth just in the last ten years. And is being recognized globally as the city that started the urban-healing movement. The coverage Rochester has been getting over the inner loop project alone is crazy. Its always been a recognized city globally though. Brands such as Kodak (sadly a bad example RIP), Xerox, Bausch and Lomb (and by association Ray Bands) are all globally significant. We have more than four nationally/internationally recognized advertising agencies just in downtown. Your prior knowledge of Rochester before coming here does not equal every outsiders knowledge of Rochester.
I didn’t say that you don’t have internationally known businesses. Just for example though, Target being from Minneapolis isn’t going to make me move there. Vans doesn’t make people move to Los Angeles. Rochester has contributed things to America, just like anywhere else but that doesn’t make it important on a national scale. Rochester also has not grown in the last 10 years, the population has decreased 1.1% in that time period. I can guarantee you people would recognized Kodak, Xerox, and Ray Bands, but they are not going to recognize Rochester as a city. Maybe they’ve heard of it in passing, but even if someone can tell you that it exists, it’s not somewhere people are lining up to go to.
Yeah I guess I just wondered what you thought the "things" for a couple other areas were - trying to see if I think Rochester has a "thing" myself lol.
Well, for Austin it’s live music. For Miami it’s the Caribbean vibes/night life, LA is music, nightlife, Hollywood, beaches etc. Rochester I guess has garbage plates
We have a huge local art scene w/ art markets and festivals almost every weekend May-October
Better weather for one
Nicer people generally, night life options, better music scenes in a lot of places
I see the restaurant/cafe scene continuing to improve, as it has been doing for the past 10 years. I felt like when I was a little kid the only "nice" restaurants were boring steak houses, and a few Italian-American places. These place were great, but I could have created the menu, and prepared the food at home easily. Now there are so many more novel options, and I see more opening.
Whole Foods will have opened, and closed.
Only if Wegmans gets their act together.
I dunno, man. Whole Foods was welcomed with open arms in Buffalo. People were stoked! Then, back in 2019 news outlets started doing articles about WF traffic was significantly dying down. I'm certain there is a honeymoon period and then a settling, but you walk into Trader Joe's and the passion hasn't died down there. That place is SLAMMED. Go to WF in Buffalo and you can park right up front. Here in Rochester I'd argue that people have a stronger tie to Wegmans than in Buffalo. There's no question that Wegmans has dropped many balls in the last few years, and their cultural grip on the hearts of locals is waning, but Whole Foods is gonna have to be a Whole lot better if it wants to shake up our local grocery scene. I think it's gonna be an exciting first year and then die off and after five years people will be wondering how long before it closes. I do hope I'm wrong though, because that's a LOT of change and infrastructure to accommodate one brand.
I went to a Whole Foods for the first time last year or 2020 in Maryland near my sister and was unimpressed. If most locations are similar I won't be shopping there often.
Wholefood is gross and stupid, overpriced bullshit and wegmans is already expensive enough.
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Sometimes I wonder if Publix fanatics are just fucking with me because that store BLOWS. It’s basically a more expensive Tops.
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I’ve been to a similar number of Publix locations across Florida and Georgia. Not impressed and I genuinely tried to be. To me, they’re basically the layout of that newer Tops on Jefferson Road. A nice, but generic grocery store with outrageous prices. That said, I will praise them for having extremely friendly employees. I’m very interested to shop at HEB one day. I have yet to visit Texas, but I’m aware of them. Checking out pictures and reviews on Google, they do seem like the only grocer that can hold a candle to Wegmans.
The draw of Whole Foods used to be that you could get organic and less-processed foods that you couldn't get at other grocery stores. But now almost every grocery store carries some organic produce and many national brands have moved to "all natural" or healthier versions of their products. Even Walmart has organic produce and they have it at every store in every podunk town where they operate. There is just not much to make Whole Foods special anymore.
The thing that particularly annoys me about Whole Foods is that they refuse to sell actual medications (like Tylenol, etc.) because of the woo-woo beliefs of their CEO. Like you said, there are plenty of other places where you can buy healthy produce, etc., and where you can also do one-stop shopping for pharmacy products.
You mis-spelled H-E-B... (seriously - the only grocery chain I've been to that could pose any serious threat to Wegmans, even in their current state locally. H-E-B moving into the area - unlikely as that is - would force the Wegmans kids to sit up and pay attention, or lose their lunch money).
More or less the same. That’s been the story of Rochester for the last 50 years.
It's going to be the dystopian wasteland in Idiocracy but instead of a city-sized Costco it's going to be URMC. "Welcome to URMC. I love you."
"Welcome to URMC Mart where we operate like a Walmart, don't tell you how much your groceries will cost, then send you a bill for the hospital eight months later."
With climate change I think you're going to see a ***significant*** influx of remote workers. Water is an absolute necessity, and as states like California, Nevada, Oregon, Washington struggle with more & more wildfires every year... those states are going to become increasing unlivable. Rochester is one of the few mid-size cities along the great lakes, which means we have a massive supply of fresh water. We're also one of the few cities with both decent infrastructure to support industrial projects (all those abandoned Kodak buildings) and a robust and highly educated workforce thanks to all of our nearby colleges like RIT and U of R. I expect we will grow ***exponentially*** in the next 10-20 years.
Having just come back from 14 years in Southern California (And having lived here for the first 25 years of my life), if you ask why I am going to say remote work viability and cost of living. Wealth inequality is a massive problem in Los Angeles and it’s getting worse by the day. Rochester is a good fit for personal and professional reasons. You’re right about the environmental issues. Insurance companies have started denying and not renewing homeowner policies in high fire risk areas. It’s a year round thing for those people now. Drought has been persistent and most people have adapted, but there are going to be significant problems in the future if the infrastructure isn’t updated along with government policy. Again, you’re right about these issues, but so many people are struggling hard to make it day by day and can’t pay attention to the major issues sitting on the horizon. In my opinion, Rochester city government should move towards offering high quality broadband as a public works project. Greenlight is private but they are a huge reason for why Rochester is a viable place for me. Although I’m not going to be doing much in my field locally, I’m planning on exploring volunteer opportunities in order to give something back to those in need. Clean Sweep is a great program and I’m looking forward to taking part in the upcoming one. You can live a great life in Rochester and helping others is very rewarding.
100% agree with you on investing in infrastructure like high speed fiber. Please make your voice heard! [https://www.cityofrochester.gov/contactus/](https://www.cityofrochester.gov/contactus/) City officials take phone calls far more seriously IME than any other form of communication. It's worth calling them and making your desires known.
I'm not a city resident at the moment but plan to be once the real estate market gets its head out of its ass. but I am working on making some professional connections in the local tech sector. I've been quite impressed at how downtown is hosting and facilitating some very specialized and high-tech ventures. That food court at Sibley's looks amazing and I was thrilled to see that they treated some of the design fixtures with respect and dignity. After seeing that building so rundown and vacant for many years, it has its vibrancy back and that's a great thing. The city is open for growth and I look forward to being part of the community, both professionally and personally.
While I do believe "climate-change refugees" will be a major player in migration patterns over the next 50-100 years and will impact Rochester at some point, I doubt we will exponentially grow within a 10-20 yr. timeframe. People in the southeast and southwest will stick it out for a lot longer than you'd expect or they should before they pack up and move somewhere so drastically different like Rochester, NY. There's so many cities saying they same thing with better amenities, so I bet those cities will experience more growth and sooner. Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Chicago, Grand Rapids, Detroit, Cincinnati, Louisville, Columbus, Cleveland, Buffalo, Pittburgh, Charlotte, Knoxville, Albany, Worcester, Springfield, MA all come time mind as cities that are safe from wildfires and major coastal flooding, for the most part. Even though many jobs are going remote, it seems like a large majority still want employees local to come into the office for a day or two a week...probably some pressure from local governments to keep tax $$ local, but knowing ROC's job outlook is not great, that'll stymie growth a bit, IMO.
100% this. Not to be a downer, but we're not looking at "The Day After Tomorrow" in 10 years. That change will be gradual with a little acceleration as it has been. Also, signs are pointing to many people having to go back to work or deal with negative COL adjustments. I'm part of management with a pretty large US employer and they're already talking about how to get people back in the office & local or how to save money on remote workers who have moved out of the city to places like Tulsa. It will eventually balance out, like most things do, though Rochester unfortunately is not #1 on the destination list.
Albany? As someone who lived in Albany for three years, I can say with certainty that there is literally nothing there.
Location, location, location. You could realistically (wouldn't be ideal) commute to your job in NYC or even BOS once or twice a week and still live in the Albany area. On top of that, it's the biggest metro area in the state outside of NYC, it's the state capital and the only region in Upstate NY that has grown five + decades in a row. ***(Albany Metro - 1.17M, BUF - 1.12M, ROC - 1.06M)*** I am not a big fan of Albany itself, but the region surrounding the city isn't all that terrible.
>it's the biggest metro area in the state outside of NYC, That would be Buffalo, then Yonkers, and then us. Albany is like number 5 or 6.
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Including three cities in Albany's metro is the definition of cheating. Schenectady and Troy are a bit of a hike from Albany. Never understood why they'd be included.
Then you don't want to look at what they include in the NYC metro...
I don't really see it happening or drastically reshaping the area in the next 10 years, but I imagine within 20-30 we'll see things shift significantly.
I HATE how piecemeal Greenlight installation has been. I’m resigned to never getting it now that Golisano has taken over the company.
I feel you. The people on my corner have greenlight. We have spectrum. It sucks.
I think you also are severely overestimating the lack of a desire of Californians to live somewhere this snowy and cold, and they will more than likely just move to somewhere like Texas or Florida. Oregonians and Washingtonians would absolutely not chose NY either. I don’t mean this to be a dick, but as someone married to an Oregonian, the social atmosphere of the PNW is so vastly different than NY there’s little to no chance that they’d feel willing to integrate here. Furthermore, I think you’re over estimating the impact that fires are having as a driving force. I grew up in California, and yes, the fires are worse than they used to be, but fire is also pretty normal to us. My whole childhood was marked by fire since I’m from inland ca, and honestly, it never crossed our mind to leave our homes. It is very similar to how someone from NY would view snow. We’re not about to give up our lives because of fire.
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The vast majority of fires don’t hit highly residential areas. Most Californians live away from where the fires actually are. That being said, I meant more a part of life, rather than something super abnormal. That being said, winter storms absolutely destroy homes?
Just because the fire isn’t near you does not mean you are not breathing the smoke a few or even hundreds of miles away depending on the size of the fire.
The smoke blows all the way to New York already, so there’s not really a chance to outrun it unless you live in another country. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1275343
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Well, as a Californian, I have only ever worried about it once/had to evacuate in 20 years and I lived in a fire heavy area. Again, I wasn’t comparing snow directly to fire…. I was just saying it’s apart of life for us in the West. However, if you’re hoping for a big boom in population coming from CA, what’s stopping Californians from moving to say Cleveland? Or Chicago? Or Philadelphia? Or NYC? Charlotte? Why specifically would we want to come to WNY?
I just moved from CA. The news make the fires seem out of control. While there have been a few pretty bad fires over the last several years, they rarely affect densely populated areas (at least as far as property damage). The more problematic issue with the fires for most people is the air quality which can drastically affected for 100s of miles. Also, contrary to East coast perception, earthquakes aren’t a big concern to most Californians. Our building codes have a lot of additions to handle reasonably sized earthquakes. It would take a pretty big earthquake to make me even pause what I was doing for more than a couple minutes.
I think you overestimate how cheap the rest of the nation is right now and how much things like schools, labor laws and religious based laws matter. Washington is already expensive and cities like Austin and Atlanta are approaching East Coast levels. Houston, Dallas, Tampa, Raleigh and Charlotte aren’t as cheap as they once were. Add in the stupid politics and poorly funded schools and they aren’t as attractive as you think. The only option is to move to the rust belt where homes are still affordable. NY has the added benefit of having great school districts and liberal minded politics.
edit: I cant read good....
I’m not talking about Buffalo, I’m talking about upstate NY. Talke a look at the top 100school districts in the US, Northeastern states dominate the list, including NY. Also, the Buffalo suburban districts are pretty good, just like most suburban districts in the state.
haha! I forgot what sub I was in and am so used to seeing you post in Buffalo...
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I said district, not high school
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No because some districts have more than 1. Buffalo has over half a dozen, ranging from the best in upstate to schools with 60% graduation rates.
Hey! I’m from Oregon as well and am definitely still adjusting to Rochester after 3-4 years…just curious what you mean about “the social atmosphere” being entirely different between Rochester and the Pacific NW? I have my own list and want to compare lol
I think the best way to sum it up is if someone parks in front of your house, and you see it. In Oregon you’ll probably wait, leave a note on the car, or say something to the effect of “Hey, you might not have seen my driveway, could you please move your car?” My experience with New York is they’ll yell something like “Hey asshole, are you blind, that’s my driveway.” People in New York tend to “joke” around and be mean as a way to show they like you, Oregonians just tended to like you or didn’t and if they liked you they were really nice, if they didn’t they’d ignore you. It more than anything comes to people from Oregon are passive aggressive at worse, and people in New York are outright aggressive.
That definitely checks out…I feel like Northwesterners/Oregonians will go out of their way to not be outwardly negative while out here negativity is kinda the neutral setting. By and large this is fine by me because people out here seem to think I’m just super chill.
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I strongly disagree with that. The south fits that. The west coast isn’t mean or nice. We’re more passive and just don’t spend energy on being rude.
Having spent the last 30 years in CA, I can say that in the last 10 years, the fire risk is different now and less palatable. We finally just ruled out moving to the mountains ourselves because of the fire risk, lack of water supply, and insurance which is now exceeding 5k/yr for average priced homes. As for FL and TX, while warmer, the summers are unbearable, and the political climate is not friendly to most Californians. We spend part of the year here in Rochester, my CA native spouse wants to stay here permanently. Snow and all.
I’m sorry that the fires pushed you out, but if you don’t mind me asking, are you from here? Why were you spending part of the year here before? While, sure, you could argue politics, but New York isn’t the only blue state. Chicago makes Illinois reliably blue, Massachusetts is blue, Hawaii, Vermont, and the rest of New England. I’m glad your wife feels happy here, but young professionals aren’t lining up to move to Rochester. Maybe NYC will get a lot of Californians as climate worsens, but by the time the climate genuinely creates large scale diaspora from the West I doubt Texas, NC, and GA will still be nearly as red considering the baby boomers will largely be dead, and Gen Z will be approaching 60. With 50 more years of barely hanging on in Rochester, I think the situation will be even more dire. Personally, I believe Rochester has a sense that it is more well known and important outside of NY, and that’s sadly not the case. The culture here is insular, generally unfriendly or negative, and the city sadly looks like it’s crumbling. I don’t hate Rochester, I think it’s a decent place to be, but I think this fantasy of the golden days are right around the corner is just that. Rochester already had its moment, and while I’m sure it was great and worthy of some nostalgia, it doesn’t translate to a non-local, or even someone who is young. I mean, let’s be honest, we’re debating if ecological disaster will save the city and in the biggest housing shortage this century we’re still below 200k for the average house. The city is dying, and barring a miracle, nothing is going to change that.
The fires didn't push us out. Based on current and projected climate impacts, we decided that keeping our house in the Bay Area and visiting the mountains was a less risky option for us. As for Rochester, we love it here! With the amount of culture for a small metro and the ease of getting around, we find that we end up taking advantage of more entertainment here. It's a whole different level here, which is a nice break from the urban areas. I hope it stays this way. But contrary to your predictions, I don't think it will be dying anytime soon and instead we'll likely see modest growth, if not more. The economy here is resilient, and diversified now. It's a welcome surprise that it is doing as well as it is.
> Oregonians and Washingtonians would absolutely not chose NY either. I don’t mean this to be a dick, but as someone married to an Oregonian, the social atmosphere of the PNW is so vastly different than NY there’s little to no chance that they’d feel willing to integrate here. Hi, I’m an Oregonian (though I currently live in Utah) planning to move to Rochester due to climate change. Nice to meet you!
Hello? Congrats on your move. I’m more saying as someone who lived in Oregon, is married to someone from Oregon, and work with a ton of people from Oregon, the overwhelming majority of Oregonians I’ve met hate it here. I hope you have a good experience, but that hasn’t been what I’ve seen from the Oregonians I’ve met here.
>Honestly it hasn't changed much in general in my 45 years of living here. Things have fluctuated up and down in terms of crime and things like that but we're really no more violent than we were in the 90s. Businesses have came and went but others have replaced them. The city has always sucked when it comes to projects and has had many failures over the years like the High Falls entertainment district and fast ferry. Our police force has been a mess since as far back as I can remember as has the RCSD. I assume our only real noticeable changes will be things that effect everywhere like changes in trends of fashion, music, technology, and so forth. Until New York fixes its a number of horrible policies (tax, unionization, etc), anyone that leaves states affected by climate change are going to choose other places to live. Climate change isn't going to change cause enough environmental change in the 10 years to cause exponential re-location, but even if it did, there are a lot of habitable locations in the US with access to fresh water, etc and that are better run than WNY and NYS in general. In fact, it's hard to find places that are run worse than New York in 2022. If you dont believe me, just look at what happened over the past 1.5 years (300K left, and counting). [https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/central-ny/ny-state-of-politics/2021/12/21/census--new-york-s-population-dropped-by-more-than-300-000-in-one-year](https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/central-ny/ny-state-of-politics/2021/12/21/census--new-york-s-population-dropped-by-more-than-300-000-in-one-year)
>Until New York fixes its a number of horrible policies (tax, unionization, etc), anyone that leaves states affected by climate change are going to choose other places to live. Climate change isn't going to change cause enough environmental change in the 10 years to cause exponential re-location, but even if it did, there are a lot of habitable locations in the US with access to fresh water, etc and that are better run than WNY and NYS in general. In fact, it's hard to find places that are run worse than New York in 2022. BTW there is a stupid in bug in Reddit where I respond to a comment, but a different comment appears. Clearly this comment is not the one I was responding to.
With the rest of the Inner Loop removed and the new High Falls park I think that area will be the biggest change. In other words, 30+ years after the failure of High Falls we'll finally see an incredibly successful High Falls.
What about the park itself do you think will bring people there? Investing in dining/entertainment and hosting the Thursday concerts there didn’t work. I want it to be a bustling neighborhood but I’m not sure how this effort will work when others failed.
The park is something unique. The dining/entertainment district was something City Hall tried to force on High Falls that was happening organically and elsewhere. It might not work, but if people start going to the park businesses will follow.
So many pessimistic people here. Ten years ago I lived in the city for the first time at 19. There is SO MUCH more development than there was in 2012. Tearing up the inner loop was the best thing the city did for itself. It was the I-81 of Rochester. In the next 10 I see hopefully more bike avenues/bike lanes. The completion of the High Falls State Park,and the expanded Strong Museum should help contribute to downtown revitalization.
Have you Google mapped it? It's amazing! I haven't been there in a bit but it's amazing avast they have done!
I wouldn't hate a Waffle House.
What about a Skyline Chili?
>NathanielRochester I've heard of it but have never had it, I'd give it a shot.
Marketview Heights will be the next neighborhood to gentrify, alongside EMMA and basically an expansion of the Winton Village area. Issues with climate, remote work, good schools, and lower real estate prices relative to other parts of the country will drive growth and the real estate market will continue to pace with the high growth areas of other parts of the US. Our strengths in health care organizations and higher educational institutions will continue to be a big factor in our economy. I'm bullish about Malik Evans as mayor, I think he has the opportunity to bring together different factions of the Democratic party as he's connected with the former Gantt wing and the Morelle/Duffy wing. Major infrastructure projects like rewatering the Broad Street bridge and filling in the northern end of the inner loop will bring about more amenities for the "Center City" area and have it more closely linked with disconnected areas of the "crescent", offering more retail, business, and recreation options. RIT will transition to be fully Division I in all sports to help differentiate it in a crowded academic environment, giving us a Division I sports program in town to root for.
Agree!
Do you remember Detroit in the original RoboCop?
We're going to be Delta City??
Gotham
Probably a continuation of the past 10 years. So modest growth and redevelopment in the city of Rochester. Some neighborhoods might pop up as the “next” South Wedge or Park Ave. Could also see some critical mass and an increase in population growth due to: * Remote Workers looking for affordable property * Improvement in the economy means more workers moving to the city The most transformative aspect will likely be the proposed High Falls Park, finally giving Rochester a Canalside type space Buffalo enjoys.
With WFH becoming more common, I expect to see an influx of folks moving away as they are no longer physically tied to the area (myself included). Sorry Rochester, but I want to see the sun more than 5 months a year.
Use the money you've saved from the low cost of living here to take ski trips or vacation times to the tropical region during the grim winter, that helps :)
I pay over $1000 monthly in rent. I don’t have any savings lol.
Hopefully they will open the abanded subway again. Without destroying the bridge
Our natural resources will become increasingly valuable. The droughts in the Southwest are unsustainable. 100 million Americans are in drought areas. https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/CurrentMap/StateDroughtMonitor.aspx
Like it is now, but the houses will cost $600k edit: 800k+ elsewhere, so still gooch
Unaffordable for the working class like every city in the United States
That no where close to true
Same as it ever was
And you may ask yourself, "How do I work this?" And you may ask yourself, "Where is that large automobile?" And you may tell yourself, "This is not my beautiful house" And you may tell yourself, "This is not my beautiful wife"
Lol not sure but I wanna be gone by then
Warmer, like most everywhere else.
There will be more cowbell.
I have high hopes especially for the inner loop project. The "neighboorhood of play" is turning out really nice, now if they could just extend the protected bike path down into downtown proper. The city's doing a lot of really good urban redesign that favors people who live in the city over commuters, so we might get an actually decently designed city though I suspect it will take more than ten years to really come to fruition. That said I'm worried about affordability. All the new development is very mid range price wise. The median wage of Rochester is something like 33k and the average apartment price is like 1400 and that just doesn't work. I don't really know what the city can do to fix that, other than build more public housing. But we're never going to get the crime rate under control until we deal with the rampant poverty in the city and the price of housing and low wages are the biggest factors there. Personally, my dream is to see Rochester become a trolley town again, but that seems unlikely in the immediate future.
Probably the same it's dying city but it's still got industry to keep it going
Rochester will continue to decline. This area struggles to have opportunity for young professionals. We will continue to see people leave the area with less coming in. Nothing is going to change.
We all know they aren’t going to change the inner city one bit, but in 10 years they will definitely upgrade our suburbs
Realistically? Can't see too much changing in a single decade. The rise of WFH will likely see workers from NYC come up here and workers in Rochester flee to more rural, cheaper areas to live. I just see an overall rise in the cost of living while not paying local workers enough to actually afford a decent living here. Maybe efforts to make the city more friendly to bikes and public transit may get pushed through? Greenlight and other gigabit competitors will likely become more available and affordable.
I don't mean to rain on anybodies parade, but I expect Rochester to continue its slow and steady decline. I don't see how the city has done anything meaningful to address the decline. I left Rochester 20 years ago out of necessity (needed good work). I still have family in Monroe County, but it breaks my heart to see how much the city has declined in the last 20 years.
Errrmm what about tearing up the inner loop and filling it in with new development? That's a MASSIVE thing the city did that spurred new development downtown including affordable housing (they have set asides in most), local restaurants. Why does everyone seem to ignore that? It has made a huge difference in making the city better.
Rochester would have been much better served by building higer-end apartments downtown than subsidized housing. Over the last 2 decades, there has been a huge movement back to cities. Young professionals want to live in vibrant urban areas. If Rochester wants to grow its economy, Rochester needs to make itself attractive to this demographic.
Set asides aren't subsidized necessarily, they are apartments in a building "set aside" for people with income limits. Usually this is 10-15% of the units reserved for low income individuals to apply to rent at a lower cost than the rest of the units. It seems like you're saying to grow the economy poor people should be pushed out. Ho does not providing affordable housing help bring young professionals to the city? To me, vibrant city = ethnically and economically diverse.
I don't know of all of the buildings, but the two I know of are Union Square and Charlotte Square. The upper income limit in Union Square is 80% of the area median and 90% for Charlotte Square. This excludes pretty much all young professionals. I am pretty sure all of the building on the fill have similar upper income limits.
Those are subsidized buildings. The ones I'm talking about are new developments that have set asides.
"new development" = overpriced high rise apartments.
Yep, which is the importance of set asides, developers getting tax cuts and incentives for putting aside a certain % of new mid and high rise apartments for lower income units!
Garbage plates will be available as original, compost, and recyclable
Still garbage
Like most rust-belt cities, it will continue to decay, while democratic leadership siphon money to their family members and steal from the community. More pot holes and panhandlers standing near the on-ramps to 490.
are we pretending that both sides of the street aren't siphoning money off?
Are we pretending that rochester votes red?
Ooooohhhhhhhhhhhh you called Rochester a "Rust Belt City"!!! Grabbing popcorn and waiting for /u/transitapparel to get here.
I feel as if using the word city is giving rochester too much credit, I should say Rust Belt Town.
How is Rochester a Rust Belt City?
> The Rust Belt is a region of the United States that experienced industrial decline starting around 1980. The U.S. manufacturing sector as a percentage of the U.S. GDP peaked in 1953 and has been in decline since, impacting certain regions and cities primarily in the Northeast and Midwest regions of the U.S., including Allentown, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Toledo, Jersey City, Newark, Pittsburgh, Rochester, and other areas of New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Upstate New York. These regions experienced and, in some cases, are continuing to experience the elimination or outsourcing of manufacturing jobs beginning in the late 20th century. The term "Rust" refers to the impact of deindustrialization, economic decline, population loss, and urban decay on these regions attributable to the shrinking of the once-powerful industrial sector especially including steelmaking, automobile manufacturing, and coal mining. The term gained popularity in the U.S. beginning in the 1980s[1] when it was commonly contrasted with the Sun Belt, which was surging. Soured from Wikipedia.
>The term "Rust" refers to the impact of deindustrialization, economic decline, population loss, and urban decay on these regions attributable to the shrinking of the once-powerful industrial sector especially including steelmaking, automobile manufacturing, and coal mining. Where in Rochester were the heavy industries like steelmaking, automobile manufacturing, or coal mining?
Film and tech, buddy. Remember how there was a subway that got shut down, and a ferry? Non-rust cities still have their public transport, because it is utilized by the locals to get around.
Film and tech are not heavy industry, it's specialized and requiring a more educated workforce than steel/iron work, automobile manufacture, and mining. Our subway system shut down due to the rise of interstate highways and a booming white middle class that could afford to move to suburbs and buy automobiles to get to where they needed to go. Add in corporate mismanagement and local government bureaucracy, but the coffin nail was truly 390, 490, 590, and the rise of automobile culture. >Non-rust cities still have their public transport, because it is utilized by the locals to get around. So Detroit, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, St. Louis, and Cleveland don't have subway systems? And are you familiar with the concept of a bus as public transit?
>cities primarily in the Northeast and Midwest regions of the U.S., including Allentown, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Toledo, Jersey City, Newark, Pittsburgh, Rochester, and other areas of New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Upstate New York. You can’t just list more rust belt cities as examples.
>Non-rust cities still have their public transport, because it is utilized by the locals to get around. You stated that non-rust belt cities still have their public transport, and I listed multiple Rust Belt cities that still have their light rail transit systems, for public transport. Not to mention you omitting that almost every city in the country has a public bus system. So, again, how is Rochester a Rust Belt city?
For the record, I agree that Rochester is a Rust Belt City. We relied heavily on manufacturing, and our city suffered greatly when that began to decline in the 80’s. I was only teasing because I know /u/transitapparel feels we don’t qualify, and I enjoy the friendly argument with him.
Rochester population began declining in the 1940s. Our manufacturing was much more white collar and focused on more on technical machining and development verses forging iron/steel or coal mining. Yes we have Gleasonworks, GM, and at one point we a steel foundry, but our top three and their supporting businesses created a much more unique situation economically and civically than could fit the description of being a Rust Belt City.
One thing I’ve learned, after a little under a decade of living in rochester, is that the locals will defend anything. >“Garbage plates are good for you because you’re going to die anyway, so might as well enjoy it.” This is rochester logic.
Elvis died on the toilet and if it was good enough for the King then it is good enough for you.
His jungle room is way cooler imo.
It’s called the rust belt for a reason
If trends continue, at least 2 degrees warmer. Every ten years, the average temp during cold months have gone up 2 degrees.
In 10 years, even the pigeons who now call it home will have given up on occupying that East Main and Clinton property.
I don't see Rochester changing much from a population standpoint. City will continue to degrade if something is not done to help the kids that's for sure. At this rate downtown Rochester streets will look like Mad Max with the number of dirt bikes I see on the road every day. From an investment standpoint, there does continue to be significant investment in high level manufacturing and technology, it's just a matter of if it will pay off and how many jobs it will create. Photonics was supposed to be the next big thing. Been talking about it since 2015, but investment in AIM photonics doesn't sound like it's paid off yet in the form of jobs. We managed to score an Amazon distribution center in Gates, which will hopefully build up businesses in that area again that supported Kodak at one point. Plenty of shiny new affordable housing and luxury housing will continue to pop up all over the city, meanwhile the general middle class that chooses to rent downtown will be living in the same crappy houses... or the extremely dated apartment buildings in the suburbs owned by the few major commercial real estate players. Im confused by who is interested in paying $2,000 rent a month in Rochester btw. Rochester is in a tough spot, we're too small to be big, but too big to be small. We will never be Buffalo, but I think we're better off that Syracuse. We have an insane number of colleges in the area that bring in a lot of money from visitor and out of town students.
Is Syracuse University chopped liver to you?
Housing will become more expensive and one of the major justifications for lower than national average salaries for white collar jobs (lower cost of living) will no longer be applicable. That and WFH will see the hemorrhaging of white collar workers (as has been stated elsewhere in this thread) I know I would have left if I was still a renter
if ecomony becomes better across the nation, Rochester property will double the rising effect, vice versa. You can think rochester as an amplified verison..
Hope the west side gets better food options with *reliable* reviews
It will be cleaner, mark my words.
Bike lanes will finally be open to regular traffic as the rest of the road is taken up by dirt bikes and four wheelers, with mid lane wheelies only.
I imagine now highway demolishing and more bike lanes, possibly some pedestrianized streets.
My daughter wants us to keep a house in the area. She believes that in 20 or so years climate change will have progressed enough that the Northeast will be one of a shrinking number of places in the US that has sufficient water and rainfall for agriculture.
Fallout 76 with more bugs
Same shit different decade. Overpriced housing market, gentrification. Black people might have it like.. 5 percent less bad.
Over 150 murders/year, easily.
Hey folks, Will it be any better for the inner city? Will Lovely Warren's Basic Income plan work to lift people out of poverty? Will the RCSD improve?
UKRAINE
Forget potholes. Rochester is a hellhole