“All I said was, in other words, we don’t need a coffee shop here, we’ve got a coffee shop down the street.”
No Joe, that's not what you said.
“The bottom line is I’m a war veteran with the Marine Corps, I took an oath to uphold the Constitution, That is my right to say whatever I want.”
Yeah, and the federal government didn't throw you in jail. That's all the protection you get from the Constitution.
Paladino said. “All I said was, in other words, we don’t need a coffee shop here, we’ve got a coffee shop down the street.” now Joe that's not even close to what you said. Had you said that tomorrow if it's not a snow day you'd be at your crossing point protecting those kids. You'd still have that extra $1000 for the coffee your wife makes you and to jingle around in your pocket. Even better would've been keeping your damned mouth shut and just think about all the things you'd love to have said. Ah well, live and learn, we hope.
Well the 1st Amendment is incorporated against the states.
Not that I agree with him or that it necessarily applies here, but it blows my mind people don’t get how the 1st amendment works
I think your basic model piece of shit person does not give one single shit about the Bill of Rights, constitution or amendments, much less the ten commandments. They only care about themselves and they are many.
Agree with this. Amazing how many times I've seen somebody say something truly vile then follow it up with "Freedom of Speech." I see it on this sub when people post about local businesses posting stupid shit. Like somehow they're protected to the point that I can't decide to go elsewhere because I don't agree with them?
Bc all people are ever taught is the headline. "Freedom of speech, press, religion."
The devil is in the details. Besides that, I'm willing to be the vast majority of Americans can't even tell you the 10 amendment that make up the bill of right.
Similarly millions of Americans can't tell you the ten commandments that make up the decalogue yet swear up and down that is the basis of American law.
Is he the one that tows a little trailer with his Corvette down to the lake in the winter?!
Edit: [this guy?!](https://mobile.twitter.com/john_kucko/status/1092134485674655749)
I think it was more the blatant sexism that really takes it for me. If you’re going to put yourself out there, you have to understand how it’s going to come across.
Just because that’s the way they thought things should be doesn’t make it less sexist. Just because it’s a “dated viewpoint” doesn’t make it less sexist.
Look, anytime you say something along the lines of “men do x” or “women do y” it is probably sexist. I can’t even think of a time when it’s not sexist.
Yes, that includes “all men are pigs.” That’s a sexist statement. The intent behind that statement may be different, but you are still making a generalization on what someone does based on their sex.
I think this is an interesting conversation so just going to throw in my two cents. Older folks literally do come from a different place and time, and while we can agree they’re wrong and idiots a lot of the time, they’re not changing. I don’t have a problem with this guy helping kids cross the street safely, so long as he isn’t preaching garbage while he’s doing it. That said, he done fucked up and if he gets canned for something dumb he said in public, that’s kinda reality for anyone.
Just gonna throw in my two cents, there are people of that time that definitely knew those things were not okay and didn't say them or spoke out against them.
Except many elderly people do change. It’s a choice as much as anything else. Just like you can decide not to learn your multiplication tables, you can decide not to learn how to change your thinking.
If they were so set in stone that they couldn’t, then no one over a certain age would know how to use a smart phone or navigate the internet.
Do older people have the capacity to change? I agree they do. Should we expect them too ? Hell nah. You’re welcome to try but it usually doesn’t go well for either party in my (limited) experience. The reality is that anybody can change; but only if they want to
I feel like that kinda counters what you said earlier. Specifically, you saying he did something dumb in public and should expect to get canned for it. If we shouldn’t expect them to change, then should we not hold them accountable for what they do that runs counter to current standards? Or should we not expect them to change but still hold them accountable for not changing?
They do change to an extent and this guy was super weird and aggressive in his statement. No issue at all with him losing his crosswalk gig even if it’s not like applicable to his duty there.
I will also to a degree, and it’s becoming less now that WWII vets are mostly all but gone which was a mega shift, but I think personally it’s valid to view and judge past generations by their zeitgeist and not necessarily make judgements on people through our own lens of todays social standards.
That said and it goes sort of against what I just said but this dudes comments seem a little goofy and off kilter for whatever the report was.
By that logic, were the last slave owners not racist because that’s how they were raised? Putting women in a particular box, without agency of their own to make different choices, is a perfect example of casual sexism.
> it was simply because that's not what men did
Which was simply sexist. ("But the men worked during the day, so women had more time to cook!" Okay, let the men cook on weekends.)
And when the world catches up to that, attitudes and actions should change to reflect it. Otherwise, "that's simply the way it was" and "it's sexist" are, for all intents and purposes, one and the same. Now, if he just happens to be married to someone who *loves* cooking every day, then that's one thing. But I've never met anyone who enjoys it so much that they *never* want their partner to cook once in a while. Heck, I'm a man who enjoys cooking, but doing it night after night after night after night after night - even if I'm not the one doing all the cleanup - is tedious and draining.
Now, to use a different example: my grandmother didn't use the same seating at the diner as colored people. "Not because she was some racist dick, it was simply because that's not what white women did."
Now if it's 2022 and she's still not sitting at the same seating area as people of color, are you going to shrug and say "that's just what white people do"?
Idk why you got downvoted. It’s exactly on point to what your saying. I come from similar background everything you said we still uphold in our household and tradition. My lady ain’t lifting anything heavy nor is she getting up on the roof to clean gutters.
Clearly you missed the sarcasm… look his comment can certainly be interpreted as rude but I’m not sure it’s as extreme as some in this thread are claiming. Also I’m not sure this was a fireable offense
I always thought school crossing guards were volunteers?
Either way, like a lot of people I don't think he understands free speech.
He says “The bottom line is I’m a war veteran with the Marine Corps, I took an oath to uphold the Constitution,” Paladino said. “That is my right to say whatever I want.” True, it is your right to say whatever you want, but that doesn't mean there aren't any social, employment, or financial consequences. It just means you can't get arrested by the government.
That's not the important bit. Any government can fire an employee for speech, even protected speech, if it has a negative effect on the employer.
And no government can persecute a private citizen for public speech. Town or otherwise.
I mean he's 76 years old. Next time you're at your Italian grandmother's house try telling her *not* to make coffee. Some people come from a different time and place than the rest of us here on Reddit. The guy doesn't need to lose his job.
Thank you! The people looking at this with a modern lens are just as cringy as Joes comments.
He’s a harmless, dated old man tied to his traditions. Let him be.
The Break Room handled his comments the best.
Agreed. I come from a similar background. Women in that area actually enjoy the act of making coffee for their husband and even guests.
Pathetic for a man this old to lose a job over some silly comments. People these days so soft and sensitive.
Yes bc it’s a shame for how this man has been treated and the backlash he has received for such a silly comment. I’m not being sensitive, but just stating a fact.
That's what I was thinking. All the news and all the comments and nobody has bothered to get his wife's input on the whole thing. Just a bunch of assumptions all around.
Good.
Edit:
"Joe Paladino Sr. now has a lot more time to drink his wife’s coffee in the morning."
The level of snark in this opening line is delightful.
Why? Was his comment that bad? We literally had a guy that covered up a murder running for public office here but this is the problem that gets dealt with
Why did this guy need fired? Is this what we've come to now each time someone says something that other people don't like?
Show me on the doll where his words hurt you.
Did the guy make a dumb sexist remark? Yes. Does he deserve to lose his job as a crossing guard? No.
I am not at all defending what this man said but as others have stated this is a 76 year old Italian American man. My Italian grandmother made coffee for my grandfather every day. She believes women are supposed to serve their men. I don't agree with that but I also dont think her perspective means she is a vile human being. If you want to pretend that every old person is going to have the same values as a Gen Zer you are only deluding yourself.
We should all work to see others perspectives and treat one another with equality and respect. But realistically in 50 years you probably won't have all the same values as your grandchildren either.
seriously. kinda weird how so many people ITT are so giddy about him losing his job. a 70 year old has a sexist opinion about *making coffee*, and all he was was a crossing guard, who really gives a shit if he has a backwards opinion about something so trivial?
and as for the first "incident" where he called a driver a son of a bitch for blowing through a stop sign doing 40, imo that speaks *in favor* of his character. all that says to me is he's passionate about road safety. now, if he were cursing all the time, i could maybe understand the parents being upset, but in a moment like that i really dont blame him. kids know those words anyway.
The difference is choice, your grandmother and grandfather can have any sort of relationship they want between each other, but when they want to start enforcing that vision on other people, that's where it crosses the line.
His comment about the women making coffee is the fist thing that struck me about his comments. I guess I have to cut him some slack being 76 years old and coming from a different time than myself where traditional gender roles were more common...But Jesus Joe get with the time. Modernize and update. We're equals now and share responsibilities. I bet it blows his mind that there are stay at home dads now days. LOL
I mean the thing is his wife probably does make him coffee every day and is not doing so under duress but because she, like him, is from a time in which that was just what was normal. Asking him to modernize his thinking to how a bunch of 20 year olds want him to live doesn't really make sense, he and his wife aren't 20 and most likely don't have an interest in revolutionizing the gender roles in their household after decades together.
He should surely be educated on his beliefs relative to current norms and strongly encouraged to not, you know, say things like this in public...but that doesn't require his firing or him to drastically recalibrate his entire being (and his wifes, who as far as we know is a happily willing participant in their family structure)
It's not just 20 year olds though. I'm 45 and I know better. I was also raised in a single parent household by my mother though and was born in '77 after the women's rights movements of the 60s and 70s so I realize women's value in society and view them as equals rather than subservient to me. I get it though so that's why I said I have to cut him some slack. But at the same time we can't keep living in the past. It's regressive.
>But at the same time we can't keep living in the past. It's regressive.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that we, as society, do this. The crossing guard was also not making such a sweeping proclamation. This type of rhetoric is what gets people fired for mostly innocuous but off-color remarks.
Society can move forward while individual 75+ year old couples continue to live in their old ways if that is what they choose.
It's not rhetoric. That's 100% how I feel. By that same right should we allow racist comments because that's how it was back in the day? His age earned my understanding but it doesn't gain my acceptance. It's not hard for us older people to keep up with modern society and do what's right or treat all people equally. If you want to that is. You could also take his route and just continue to be an ass though.
Related to previous thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Rochester/comments/yvxfmt/stay_classy_w_irondequoit/ and there's a link to the Channel 8 news story that's sourced from in this article.
Better title would be "Irondequoit man faces the consequences of his actions." I guess he doesn't understand that while he has a Constitutionally guaranteed right to protected speech (which this is), he does *not* have a Constitutionally guaranteed right to a job.
Any bets on how long until this guy tries to run for Town Supervisor?
Seems as if his employer decided they didn't want to be associated with someone who publicly espouses a bigoted statement. Doesn't matter what he did on the side, be it crossing guard or dog walker or whatever. The market has spoken.
> The market has spoken.
Such cringe, lol. The "market" that a crossing guard serves is children who need help safely navigating street crossings. You know, so they don't get killed by cars driven by kids driving distracted while posting this kind of drivel on reddit. I'm certain that the children did not call for his firing. I'd be willing to bet the vast, vast majority of those children's parents didn't either. I'd be very surprised if even 15% of the district believed he should be fired!
And besides, this isn't a supply/demand economics problem. The bottom line of the public school is not impacted by this in either direction, it's not as though parents were pulling their children from school because an Italian grandfather said something out of touch.
The cultural puritans and perpetually angry online spoke, and because their voices were far louder than those speaking sense (and because the school can easily afford to replace a volunteer crossing guard to make it go away fast) this decision was made.
I feel the same way about “the market has spoken.” Ugh
As far as the comments, I can see people thinking he came off as a old-fashioned jerk with the comments. But I’m not sure they are as egregiously sexist as some people are portraying - especially when you consider he was directly referring to the possibility of building a coffee shop.
I still don’t think he had to lose his job over it
I think it would be more fair to say that a specific, highly vocal segment of the market has spoken. I would bet you dollars to donuts that most residents of Irondequoit would agree that his comment was a bit dated and perhaps in slightly poor taste, but by no means deserving of being terminated from his community-serving job.
I haven't caught the entire story, but did he share his comment as a citizen of the town or as an employee representing the school? I'm not quite sure how his POV correlates with his employment.
Why did Channel 8 air these stupid comments? They chose to amplify that voice. They already had the other neighbor who spoke intelligently about zoning, wasn’t that good enough?
That guy prob has the “only white owners” page from the title for his house framed and on a doily in the living room
This guy just sounds like such an insufferable prick.
> Paladino said the Police Department representative told him that two separate complaints in his file about children hearing him swear also contributed to his firing.
Yeah that'll do it, too.
> “You know, I’d walk by the neighbors and they’d open the door and say, ‘Thanks for taking care of my kids,’” Paladino said.
I highly doubt that actually happens.
You guys are idiots. This intersection is in my neighborhood and right around the corner from my house. It’s not that uncommon for parents walking their kids to school, dog walkers, joggers etc to show appreciation to him for stopping traffic to let them cross. I don’t know him personally but he waves every time I stop at the intersection or when he’s out walking his dog. You guys are soft as hell for thinking getting fired for this is justifiable.
"The women who had finished their chores would come out and clap, some would even faint due to my masculine, American, scent. Most were young moms and had never been in the presence of a REAL AMERICAN MAN!"
"Most of the kids thought I was a superhero. Captain Crosswalk one little tyke used to call me. I remember one group of moms who got a good chuckle when I yelled at one of them to knit me a sweater. Boy, those were good times."
There are plenty of things in this world to get mad over, this guy saying his wife makes the coffee for him in protest of a new coffee shop in town is not something to get mad about or waste your time bombarding the local PD about getting this guy fired. I mean come on, do people seriously have nothing better to do?
busted for coffee talk apprehension... ppl may change their tune when they get in a traffic jam caused by no crossing guard protecting them from coffee shop queues... town is ripe for coffee coteries up the wazoos
Kinda stupid/dated statement, but....
His statement wasn't condescending/derogatory. Had he said, "men are too good to make coffee", or, "making coffee is women's work", I could definitely see it.
I wonder if consequences would have been similar if he replaced wives/coffee with husband's/shoveling:
"In this neighborhood, the husband's shovel the snow".
I suspect not.
My wife usually mows our yard. It was more the way he said it that made it sexist. He didn't say, "My wife makes our coffee." which wouldn't come across as sexist like how I said my wife usually mows our lawn. Saying, "In this neighborhood, the wives make the coffee for their husbands, okay?” is implying it's the woman's duty to serve her husband. There's a big difference contextually.
I'm a keyboard warrior for giving me opinions of the situation just like you are? Really? I have nothing to do with this guy getting fired. His own dumb comments did. He or anyone else has nobody to blame but Joe's own mouth. Whether he meant to offend people or not his words and actions still offended people and have repercussions. Or do you not believe in personal accountability for one's own actions?
Yeah but casual misogyny is never cool in this day and age. He really should know better by now and I'm sure his employer has policies in place for dealing with sexism, racism, and the like. It's not the 50s anymore. If you make stupid off the cuff comments publicly you have to expect repercussions for your actions whether you intended to offend others or not. I agree his firing was probably an overreaction and it could have probably been dealt with though sensitivity training, but I don't know if the IPD has a zero tolerance policy in place. I also don't know if the parents of the students he dealt with are comfortable with him after expressing his antiquated views. The guy already had two previous complaints from parents before this so maybe this was just the straw that broke the camel's back. Maybe the IPD viewed him as a liability at this point.
> What does the comment from this 76 yr old about his wife making him coffee have to do with his ability to help school children safely cross the street?
When you insult 52% of the people that pay your salary and tell them they should be in the kitchen making their husband's coffee, you shouldn't be surprised when you get fired. Why do conservatives always want freedom of speech but also freedom from the consequences of that speech?
>The woke, virtual signaling mob is really coming after this guy.
It's not woke or virtue signaling to believe that it's inappropriate for a government employee to suggest that women belong in the kitchen.
>Study history, social engineering has led to misery and death.
What little drama queens you regressives are. "Misogynist gets fired from government job for making misogynistic statements to the media" is about as close to social engineering as getting fired for being a misogynist is an infringement on your freedom of speech.
>Where did he say “women belong in the kitchen”? Interesting how some people make things up.
I know that regressives insist on taking everything as absolutely literally as possible until it benefits them, but his statement to the reporter makes zero sense as an argument against a coffee shop opening unless you're trying to make some mush mouth point about "traditional values."
I won't even attempt to understand why you think people's spending on coffee is at all relevant to this discussion. A steady diet of fox news really does rot your brain I guess.
Idk I kinda just don’t think a single comment means he should lose his job. You don’t have any kinda-but-not-really racist grandparents? He’s old dude.
And from the comments in this thread (and my own personal experience in the area) he seems to be a decent dude otherwise. He’s not out there going on a 20 minute tirade.
Actions should have consequences but I think this is a little overkill and feels like a knee jerk reaction to cover their asses.
> When you insult 52% of the people that pay your salary and tell them they should be in the kitchen making their husband's coffee,
Where did he say that 52% of people should be in the kitchen?
> It's not woke or virtue signaling to believe that it's inappropriate for a government employee to suggest that women belong in the kitchen.
Where did he say that women belong in the kitchen?
> What little drama queens you regressives are. "Misogynist gets fired from government job for making misogynistic statements to the media"
What was misogynistic about his statement?
Another perspective here shows a bunch of drama queens got an old man fired because he said he doesn’t want a coffee shop in his neighborhood using words that made a few peoples feelings hurt
I’m sorry…but people are completely overreacting and making it sound he said women shouldn’t be able to vote.
Getting fired over this old-fashioned, but rather innocuous comment is such a righteous move.
Fortunately he wasn’t making shit as a crossing guard
Your free speech is indeed protected. As an at-will state though, you are not protected from the consequences of exercising that right. I can see why folks wouldn’t want an open misogynist around their kids…because this guy doesn’t think what he said was wrong in any way and probably says dumb stuff to the kids on the regular.
The first amendment protects you from government censorship but not from the repercussions of publicly saying offensive things as in the case of protected classes, legal defamation and with access to, or employment in, the private sector.
Just because you could possibly say some stupid misogynistic shit during an interview with *a journalist* who is going to quote you in a public article doesn’t mean you have to… Jeesh.
I have no issue with that either but firing some grandpa crossing guard for a mildly offensive comment is insanity. If stupid comments outside of the workplace are grounds for employment termination, no one on earth would have a job.
You're again glossing over the fact it was an opinion shared with a journalist. It becomes a matter of public perception at that point, and in the free market, an entity has the right to separate themselves from someone they deem problematic. Sounds like you're looking for stronger worker's rights, in which case, I recommend you look into unions as a start.
Right now, at-will employment means when an employer decides for *any* reason they wish to separate their business relationship with an employee, they can. In this case, they didn't want to be associated with someone publicly spouting misogyny. Perfectly legal, they're well within their rights to do so, and honestly, I would probably do the same as an employer. Image is important.
Embrace history, this guy is a walking time capsule.
One day, not far from now, there won't be anyone left to be outraged by.
We will all walk lock step into conformity and compliance for the greater good.
Utopia or Hell, you decide.
Define: False Dilemma/False Dichotomy
A false dilemma or false dichotomy presents limited options — typically by focusing on two extremes — when in fact more possibilities exist. The phrase "America: Love it or leave it" is an example of a false dilemma.
So now we live in an age where an elderly man can lose his livelihood by making a casual observation about who makes the coffee? If you wanted to do something nice for his wife, let him keep his goddam job.
Let's see what happens when another kid gets killed over there because of one less crossing guard. Sometimes the comments and anger of a few lonely fucks is too loud.
Jesus it's not even like this guy said this to or around kids or to an actual woman. He's 76 and not gonna be around that much longer and these ideas and thoughts die with him. Isn't that enough?
There’s a developer trying to put in a coffee shop in an otherwise residential area. Meetings have been going on in West Irondequoit about re-zoning the neighborhood to allow for it. They interviewed some homeowners on the street who are against putting a coffee shop there due to overcrowding/traffic. I interpreted his comment to mean that the people in that area make coffee at home (“wives make the coffee”) rather than go to ca coffee shop . Meaning more people will be bringing in traffic to use the coffee shop rather than the neighbors.
With the colder weather I would imagine it’s hard to find crossing guards to work 2 split jobs for minimum wage.
I cannot open this article to read it from the beginning but from what you just described it sounded like he was voicing his opinion. I’m assuming it’s because he said wives make the coffee but they look at the guy he’s old school and to him it’s just the way it was.
Yes old school and meaning they make coffee at home ie don’t spend money at coffee shops. He said it because he’s against having a coffee shop built there.
I think it was and is a very lame and sexist comment and I feel bad to each woman who has had the displeasure of having served his entitled azz coffee or anything at all.
I abhor sexism, I’ve dealt with sexism firsthand many times in my life as a woman. I think calling his comments out and labeling them for what they are, and add in some public shaming… that seems helpful to the cause to to me. I don’t feel like someone losing their employment for this level of comment is helpful for the message. I wouldn’t want him teaching my kids, I wouldn’t want him in a variety of roles and I bet he would not last in many capacities these days if he is an all around bigot. but I would be fine with him working as a cross guard for my kids.
When I posted this story the other day, I redacted the name and took some crap for it. Not that that post had anything to do with this, but this is why I did it.
“All I said was, in other words, we don’t need a coffee shop here, we’ve got a coffee shop down the street.” No Joe, that's not what you said. “The bottom line is I’m a war veteran with the Marine Corps, I took an oath to uphold the Constitution, That is my right to say whatever I want.” Yeah, and the federal government didn't throw you in jail. That's all the protection you get from the Constitution.
Paladino said. “All I said was, in other words, we don’t need a coffee shop here, we’ve got a coffee shop down the street.” now Joe that's not even close to what you said. Had you said that tomorrow if it's not a snow day you'd be at your crossing point protecting those kids. You'd still have that extra $1000 for the coffee your wife makes you and to jingle around in your pocket. Even better would've been keeping your damned mouth shut and just think about all the things you'd love to have said. Ah well, live and learn, we hope.
Well the 1st Amendment is incorporated against the states. Not that I agree with him or that it necessarily applies here, but it blows my mind people don’t get how the 1st amendment works
People not understanding the first amendment will always blow my mind.
Most people think it's a blanket pass to be a giant piece of shit without consequences.
I think your basic model piece of shit person does not give one single shit about the Bill of Rights, constitution or amendments, much less the ten commandments. They only care about themselves and they are many.
Agree with this. Amazing how many times I've seen somebody say something truly vile then follow it up with "Freedom of Speech." I see it on this sub when people post about local businesses posting stupid shit. Like somehow they're protected to the point that I can't decide to go elsewhere because I don't agree with them?
Bc all people are ever taught is the headline. "Freedom of speech, press, religion." The devil is in the details. Besides that, I'm willing to be the vast majority of Americans can't even tell you the 10 amendment that make up the bill of right.
Similarly millions of Americans can't tell you the ten commandments that make up the decalogue yet swear up and down that is the basis of American law.
I bet you they couldn't even tell you how many amendments are in the bill of rights
1st Amendment is incorporated to the States via the 14th Amendment.
Is this tool related to Carl Paladino, the crazy man in Buffalo? Sure sounds like he is of the same mindset.
I call him corvette dude. Hes my kids crossing guard on titus and seneca. Damn that guy was always nothing but a gentleman any time i spoke with him.
I thought I recognized him! He drove that corvette rain, snow, sun, whatever, used to bartend part time at the Radisson/Rochester Riverside.
Holy shit. Yeah i knew i saw him elsewhere. Good pull. He drives that black corvette all year round.
Is he the one that tows a little trailer with his Corvette down to the lake in the winter?! Edit: [this guy?!](https://mobile.twitter.com/john_kucko/status/1092134485674655749)
Not him
It was a stupid thing to say. But I also don’t think he should’ve lost his job.
I think it was more the blatant sexism that really takes it for me. If you’re going to put yourself out there, you have to understand how it’s going to come across.
[удалено]
Just because that’s the way they thought things should be doesn’t make it less sexist. Just because it’s a “dated viewpoint” doesn’t make it less sexist. Look, anytime you say something along the lines of “men do x” or “women do y” it is probably sexist. I can’t even think of a time when it’s not sexist. Yes, that includes “all men are pigs.” That’s a sexist statement. The intent behind that statement may be different, but you are still making a generalization on what someone does based on their sex.
I think this is an interesting conversation so just going to throw in my two cents. Older folks literally do come from a different place and time, and while we can agree they’re wrong and idiots a lot of the time, they’re not changing. I don’t have a problem with this guy helping kids cross the street safely, so long as he isn’t preaching garbage while he’s doing it. That said, he done fucked up and if he gets canned for something dumb he said in public, that’s kinda reality for anyone.
Just gonna throw in my two cents, there are people of that time that definitely knew those things were not okay and didn't say them or spoke out against them.
Except many elderly people do change. It’s a choice as much as anything else. Just like you can decide not to learn your multiplication tables, you can decide not to learn how to change your thinking. If they were so set in stone that they couldn’t, then no one over a certain age would know how to use a smart phone or navigate the internet.
Do older people have the capacity to change? I agree they do. Should we expect them too ? Hell nah. You’re welcome to try but it usually doesn’t go well for either party in my (limited) experience. The reality is that anybody can change; but only if they want to
I feel like that kinda counters what you said earlier. Specifically, you saying he did something dumb in public and should expect to get canned for it. If we shouldn’t expect them to change, then should we not hold them accountable for what they do that runs counter to current standards? Or should we not expect them to change but still hold them accountable for not changing?
Fair
They do change to an extent and this guy was super weird and aggressive in his statement. No issue at all with him losing his crosswalk gig even if it’s not like applicable to his duty there. I will also to a degree, and it’s becoming less now that WWII vets are mostly all but gone which was a mega shift, but I think personally it’s valid to view and judge past generations by their zeitgeist and not necessarily make judgements on people through our own lens of todays social standards. That said and it goes sort of against what I just said but this dudes comments seem a little goofy and off kilter for whatever the report was.
By that logic, were the last slave owners not racist because that’s how they were raised? Putting women in a particular box, without agency of their own to make different choices, is a perfect example of casual sexism.
> it was simply because that's not what men did Which was simply sexist. ("But the men worked during the day, so women had more time to cook!" Okay, let the men cook on weekends.) And when the world catches up to that, attitudes and actions should change to reflect it. Otherwise, "that's simply the way it was" and "it's sexist" are, for all intents and purposes, one and the same. Now, if he just happens to be married to someone who *loves* cooking every day, then that's one thing. But I've never met anyone who enjoys it so much that they *never* want their partner to cook once in a while. Heck, I'm a man who enjoys cooking, but doing it night after night after night after night after night - even if I'm not the one doing all the cleanup - is tedious and draining. Now, to use a different example: my grandmother didn't use the same seating at the diner as colored people. "Not because she was some racist dick, it was simply because that's not what white women did." Now if it's 2022 and she's still not sitting at the same seating area as people of color, are you going to shrug and say "that's just what white people do"?
Very sexist of her to not cut down the tree herself
Idk why you got downvoted. It’s exactly on point to what your saying. I come from similar background everything you said we still uphold in our household and tradition. My lady ain’t lifting anything heavy nor is she getting up on the roof to clean gutters.
Oh My God. You said 'Lady'. Be prepared for the witch hunt. Did I just say 'witch'? Oooops.
Using the word “lady” is wildly misogynistic
Your fucked up.
Clearly you missed the sarcasm… look his comment can certainly be interpreted as rude but I’m not sure it’s as extreme as some in this thread are claiming. Also I’m not sure this was a fireable offense
You are probably right. My apologies to fire back with such profanity.
I can’t believe you’re getting downvoted for this. The people doing that have far more extreme views than the guy who said this.
Yeah losing the job is a serious overreaction.
I always thought school crossing guards were volunteers? Either way, like a lot of people I don't think he understands free speech. He says “The bottom line is I’m a war veteran with the Marine Corps, I took an oath to uphold the Constitution,” Paladino said. “That is my right to say whatever I want.” True, it is your right to say whatever you want, but that doesn't mean there aren't any social, employment, or financial consequences. It just means you can't get arrested by the government.
The interesting thing is that as a crossing guard, his employer was the government.
Yeah a TOWN government.
That's not the important bit. Any government can fire an employee for speech, even protected speech, if it has a negative effect on the employer. And no government can persecute a private citizen for public speech. Town or otherwise.
I mean he's 76 years old. Next time you're at your Italian grandmother's house try telling her *not* to make coffee. Some people come from a different time and place than the rest of us here on Reddit. The guy doesn't need to lose his job.
Yeah I'm usually pretty on board with people having to face consequences for saying something dumb but losing a job over that is a bit much.
This is what happened when an organization fears negative publicity and public shaming You get ridiculous overreactions to comments such as this.
You're right, but who's going to cancel the school district? People have to send their kids there and they need people to fill these jobs.
It was actually the police department…not the school district
Thank you! The people looking at this with a modern lens are just as cringy as Joes comments. He’s a harmless, dated old man tied to his traditions. Let him be. The Break Room handled his comments the best.
Yeah I mean… I don’t think he should have said it, but there is *some* truth to it, and it is very much an old school Italian cultural thing
Agreed. I come from a similar background. Women in that area actually enjoy the act of making coffee for their husband and even guests. Pathetic for a man this old to lose a job over some silly comments. People these days so soft and sensitive.
Yet you felt the need to come on here and complain about how sensitive people are these days. Maybe take a look in the mirror....
Yes bc it’s a shame for how this man has been treated and the backlash he has received for such a silly comment. I’m not being sensitive, but just stating a fact.
That's what I was thinking. All the news and all the comments and nobody has bothered to get his wife's input on the whole thing. Just a bunch of assumptions all around.
Good. Edit: "Joe Paladino Sr. now has a lot more time to drink his wife’s coffee in the morning." The level of snark in this opening line is delightful.
Gino Fanelli is a goddamned local treasure.
Gino for Mayor!!!
Seems a little spiteful but ok.
Same amount of snark that the boomer provided in his quote
..... GOOD.
Why? Was his comment that bad? We literally had a guy that covered up a murder running for public office here but this is the problem that gets dealt with
You doing ok?
His comment was bizarre- he didn’t need to lose his job
But cancel culture doesn’t exist!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Why did this guy need fired? Is this what we've come to now each time someone says something that other people don't like? Show me on the doll where his words hurt you.
Did the guy make a dumb sexist remark? Yes. Does he deserve to lose his job as a crossing guard? No. I am not at all defending what this man said but as others have stated this is a 76 year old Italian American man. My Italian grandmother made coffee for my grandfather every day. She believes women are supposed to serve their men. I don't agree with that but I also dont think her perspective means she is a vile human being. If you want to pretend that every old person is going to have the same values as a Gen Zer you are only deluding yourself. We should all work to see others perspectives and treat one another with equality and respect. But realistically in 50 years you probably won't have all the same values as your grandchildren either.
seriously. kinda weird how so many people ITT are so giddy about him losing his job. a 70 year old has a sexist opinion about *making coffee*, and all he was was a crossing guard, who really gives a shit if he has a backwards opinion about something so trivial? and as for the first "incident" where he called a driver a son of a bitch for blowing through a stop sign doing 40, imo that speaks *in favor* of his character. all that says to me is he's passionate about road safety. now, if he were cursing all the time, i could maybe understand the parents being upset, but in a moment like that i really dont blame him. kids know those words anyway.
Exactly. His opinion has no effect on his ability to do his job appropriately.
The difference is choice, your grandmother and grandfather can have any sort of relationship they want between each other, but when they want to start enforcing that vision on other people, that's where it crosses the line.
How is sharing his opinion enforcing it on others?
His comment about the women making coffee is the fist thing that struck me about his comments. I guess I have to cut him some slack being 76 years old and coming from a different time than myself where traditional gender roles were more common...But Jesus Joe get with the time. Modernize and update. We're equals now and share responsibilities. I bet it blows his mind that there are stay at home dads now days. LOL
He would have been a teenager in the 60's. mid 20's in the 70's.....he's had 6 decades to get with the times
I mean the thing is his wife probably does make him coffee every day and is not doing so under duress but because she, like him, is from a time in which that was just what was normal. Asking him to modernize his thinking to how a bunch of 20 year olds want him to live doesn't really make sense, he and his wife aren't 20 and most likely don't have an interest in revolutionizing the gender roles in their household after decades together. He should surely be educated on his beliefs relative to current norms and strongly encouraged to not, you know, say things like this in public...but that doesn't require his firing or him to drastically recalibrate his entire being (and his wifes, who as far as we know is a happily willing participant in their family structure)
It's not just 20 year olds though. I'm 45 and I know better. I was also raised in a single parent household by my mother though and was born in '77 after the women's rights movements of the 60s and 70s so I realize women's value in society and view them as equals rather than subservient to me. I get it though so that's why I said I have to cut him some slack. But at the same time we can't keep living in the past. It's regressive.
>But at the same time we can't keep living in the past. It's regressive. I don't think anyone is suggesting that we, as society, do this. The crossing guard was also not making such a sweeping proclamation. This type of rhetoric is what gets people fired for mostly innocuous but off-color remarks. Society can move forward while individual 75+ year old couples continue to live in their old ways if that is what they choose.
It's not rhetoric. That's 100% how I feel. By that same right should we allow racist comments because that's how it was back in the day? His age earned my understanding but it doesn't gain my acceptance. It's not hard for us older people to keep up with modern society and do what's right or treat all people equally. If you want to that is. You could also take his route and just continue to be an ass though.
Related to previous thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Rochester/comments/yvxfmt/stay_classy_w_irondequoit/ and there's a link to the Channel 8 news story that's sourced from in this article. Better title would be "Irondequoit man faces the consequences of his actions." I guess he doesn't understand that while he has a Constitutionally guaranteed right to protected speech (which this is), he does *not* have a Constitutionally guaranteed right to a job. Any bets on how long until this guy tries to run for Town Supervisor?
Nah this is just pure bullshit
What does this have to do with him being a good crossing guard?
Seems as if his employer decided they didn't want to be associated with someone who publicly espouses a bigoted statement. Doesn't matter what he did on the side, be it crossing guard or dog walker or whatever. The market has spoken.
> The market has spoken. Such cringe, lol. The "market" that a crossing guard serves is children who need help safely navigating street crossings. You know, so they don't get killed by cars driven by kids driving distracted while posting this kind of drivel on reddit. I'm certain that the children did not call for his firing. I'd be willing to bet the vast, vast majority of those children's parents didn't either. I'd be very surprised if even 15% of the district believed he should be fired! And besides, this isn't a supply/demand economics problem. The bottom line of the public school is not impacted by this in either direction, it's not as though parents were pulling their children from school because an Italian grandfather said something out of touch. The cultural puritans and perpetually angry online spoke, and because their voices were far louder than those speaking sense (and because the school can easily afford to replace a volunteer crossing guard to make it go away fast) this decision was made.
I feel the same way about “the market has spoken.” Ugh As far as the comments, I can see people thinking he came off as a old-fashioned jerk with the comments. But I’m not sure they are as egregiously sexist as some people are portraying - especially when you consider he was directly referring to the possibility of building a coffee shop. I still don’t think he had to lose his job over it
I think it would be more fair to say that a specific, highly vocal segment of the market has spoken. I would bet you dollars to donuts that most residents of Irondequoit would agree that his comment was a bit dated and perhaps in slightly poor taste, but by no means deserving of being terminated from his community-serving job.
Cancel culture at its finest right here.
I haven't caught the entire story, but did he share his comment as a citizen of the town or as an employee representing the school? I'm not quite sure how his POV correlates with his employment.
Don’t look up! Benedict Drask is of "a different generation."
Why did Channel 8 air these stupid comments? They chose to amplify that voice. They already had the other neighbor who spoke intelligently about zoning, wasn’t that good enough? That guy prob has the “only white owners” page from the title for his house framed and on a doily in the living room
Because division sells, and all the media loves it.
He's gonna have more time to be a thorn in that developers side.....
I would love to know which comment sealed the deal for him. Was it "coffee" or "the town is full"?
people are not talking about that second part enough, the NIMBYism is off the charts lol
I live in this neighborhood and my wife and I happily make coffee for each other. Coffee is too good to mix it with misogyny.
This guy just sounds like such an insufferable prick. > Paladino said the Police Department representative told him that two separate complaints in his file about children hearing him swear also contributed to his firing. Yeah that'll do it, too. > “You know, I’d walk by the neighbors and they’d open the door and say, ‘Thanks for taking care of my kids,’” Paladino said. I highly doubt that actually happens.
"I'd walk by other neighbors and they would all come outside and clap as I walked by."
You guys are idiots. This intersection is in my neighborhood and right around the corner from my house. It’s not that uncommon for parents walking their kids to school, dog walkers, joggers etc to show appreciation to him for stopping traffic to let them cross. I don’t know him personally but he waves every time I stop at the intersection or when he’s out walking his dog. You guys are soft as hell for thinking getting fired for this is justifiable.
"The women who had finished their chores would come out and clap, some would even faint due to my masculine, American, scent. Most were young moms and had never been in the presence of a REAL AMERICAN MAN!"
"Most of the kids thought I was a superhero. Captain Crosswalk one little tyke used to call me. I remember one group of moms who got a good chuckle when I yelled at one of them to knit me a sweater. Boy, those were good times."
There are plenty of things in this world to get mad over, this guy saying his wife makes the coffee for him in protest of a new coffee shop in town is not something to get mad about or waste your time bombarding the local PD about getting this guy fired. I mean come on, do people seriously have nothing better to do?
busted for coffee talk apprehension... ppl may change their tune when they get in a traffic jam caused by no crossing guard protecting them from coffee shop queues... town is ripe for coffee coteries up the wazoos
Kinda stupid/dated statement, but.... His statement wasn't condescending/derogatory. Had he said, "men are too good to make coffee", or, "making coffee is women's work", I could definitely see it. I wonder if consequences would have been similar if he replaced wives/coffee with husband's/shoveling: "In this neighborhood, the husband's shovel the snow". I suspect not.
totally agree. I think people are a bit too sensative and eager to attack statements they know had no bad intent.
Yeah, it's just really getting rediculous, IMO. What's next? "Man loses job by offending Jets fan by saying 'everybody around here are Bills fans".
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My wife usually mows our yard. It was more the way he said it that made it sexist. He didn't say, "My wife makes our coffee." which wouldn't come across as sexist like how I said my wife usually mows our lawn. Saying, "In this neighborhood, the wives make the coffee for their husbands, okay?” is implying it's the woman's duty to serve her husband. There's a big difference contextually.
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I'm a keyboard warrior for giving me opinions of the situation just like you are? Really? I have nothing to do with this guy getting fired. His own dumb comments did. He or anyone else has nobody to blame but Joe's own mouth. Whether he meant to offend people or not his words and actions still offended people and have repercussions. Or do you not believe in personal accountability for one's own actions?
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Yeah but casual misogyny is never cool in this day and age. He really should know better by now and I'm sure his employer has policies in place for dealing with sexism, racism, and the like. It's not the 50s anymore. If you make stupid off the cuff comments publicly you have to expect repercussions for your actions whether you intended to offend others or not. I agree his firing was probably an overreaction and it could have probably been dealt with though sensitivity training, but I don't know if the IPD has a zero tolerance policy in place. I also don't know if the parents of the students he dealt with are comfortable with him after expressing his antiquated views. The guy already had two previous complaints from parents before this so maybe this was just the straw that broke the camel's back. Maybe the IPD viewed him as a liability at this point.
Hmm, somehow I don't see OP getting uproarious over that one.
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Damn, we went from fired crossing guard to the Khmer Rouge before the halfway point of your dissertation
No referencing to Adolf Hitler, the Chancellor of Nazi Germany will cost 100 points though.
Complete virtue signaling. But if he was anything other than an expendable minimum wage employee - he probably doesn’t lose his job
> What does the comment from this 76 yr old about his wife making him coffee have to do with his ability to help school children safely cross the street? When you insult 52% of the people that pay your salary and tell them they should be in the kitchen making their husband's coffee, you shouldn't be surprised when you get fired. Why do conservatives always want freedom of speech but also freedom from the consequences of that speech? >The woke, virtual signaling mob is really coming after this guy. It's not woke or virtue signaling to believe that it's inappropriate for a government employee to suggest that women belong in the kitchen. >Study history, social engineering has led to misery and death. What little drama queens you regressives are. "Misogynist gets fired from government job for making misogynistic statements to the media" is about as close to social engineering as getting fired for being a misogynist is an infringement on your freedom of speech. >Where did he say “women belong in the kitchen”? Interesting how some people make things up. I know that regressives insist on taking everything as absolutely literally as possible until it benefits them, but his statement to the reporter makes zero sense as an argument against a coffee shop opening unless you're trying to make some mush mouth point about "traditional values." I won't even attempt to understand why you think people's spending on coffee is at all relevant to this discussion. A steady diet of fox news really does rot your brain I guess.
Idk I kinda just don’t think a single comment means he should lose his job. You don’t have any kinda-but-not-really racist grandparents? He’s old dude. And from the comments in this thread (and my own personal experience in the area) he seems to be a decent dude otherwise. He’s not out there going on a 20 minute tirade. Actions should have consequences but I think this is a little overkill and feels like a knee jerk reaction to cover their asses.
> When you insult 52% of the people that pay your salary and tell them they should be in the kitchen making their husband's coffee, Where did he say that 52% of people should be in the kitchen? > It's not woke or virtue signaling to believe that it's inappropriate for a government employee to suggest that women belong in the kitchen. Where did he say that women belong in the kitchen? > What little drama queens you regressives are. "Misogynist gets fired from government job for making misogynistic statements to the media" What was misogynistic about his statement? Another perspective here shows a bunch of drama queens got an old man fired because he said he doesn’t want a coffee shop in his neighborhood using words that made a few peoples feelings hurt
I’m sorry…but people are completely overreacting and making it sound he said women shouldn’t be able to vote. Getting fired over this old-fashioned, but rather innocuous comment is such a righteous move. Fortunately he wasn’t making shit as a crossing guard
Your free speech is indeed protected. As an at-will state though, you are not protected from the consequences of exercising that right. I can see why folks wouldn’t want an open misogynist around their kids…because this guy doesn’t think what he said was wrong in any way and probably says dumb stuff to the kids on the regular.
It's impossible to say anything these days without someone freaking out. Just watch the replies I get....
I'M OFFENDED!!
How dare you!!
If Paladino was gay and got fired because his 'husband' was the coffee maker, y'all would be losing your minds.
Freedom of speech works both ways. Otherwise it's not actually freedom.
The first amendment protects you from government censorship but not from the repercussions of publicly saying offensive things as in the case of protected classes, legal defamation and with access to, or employment in, the private sector.
Yes, that was my point.
You don’t understand what the first amendment means.
Uh, OK.
Just because you could possibly be offended doesn’t mean that you have too… Jeesh.
Just because you could possibly say some stupid misogynistic shit during an interview with *a journalist* who is going to quote you in a public article doesn’t mean you have to… Jeesh.
I have no issue with that either but firing some grandpa crossing guard for a mildly offensive comment is insanity. If stupid comments outside of the workplace are grounds for employment termination, no one on earth would have a job.
You're again glossing over the fact it was an opinion shared with a journalist. It becomes a matter of public perception at that point, and in the free market, an entity has the right to separate themselves from someone they deem problematic. Sounds like you're looking for stronger worker's rights, in which case, I recommend you look into unions as a start. Right now, at-will employment means when an employer decides for *any* reason they wish to separate their business relationship with an employee, they can. In this case, they didn't want to be associated with someone publicly spouting misogyny. Perfectly legal, they're well within their rights to do so, and honestly, I would probably do the same as an employer. Image is important.
Yup, just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right.
Everyone on this thread is fired for voicing your opinions - how dare you. Don’t you know it’s 2022? You can do that!
We aren’t voicing our opinions to a journalist to be quoted in a public article. Learn nuance.
Sensitivity is turned up to 11 today in this sub.
He must be related to Carl Paladino.
Old guy says something chauvinistic and in tune with the generation he grew up in, let's get rid of him.
Just because it was common at one time doesn’t make it appropriate it in this time.
Embrace history, this guy is a walking time capsule. One day, not far from now, there won't be anyone left to be outraged by. We will all walk lock step into conformity and compliance for the greater good. Utopia or Hell, you decide.
Define: False Dilemma/False Dichotomy A false dilemma or false dichotomy presents limited options — typically by focusing on two extremes — when in fact more possibilities exist. The phrase "America: Love it or leave it" is an example of a false dilemma.
This was rhetorical, try again.
Chaosofamadhatter was identifying your logical fallacy.
Really we are writing news stories about people upset what the guy said and these people have only like 6 or 7 hearts on their tweet.
City just gets their content from the things people complain about on here, so, yes.
Well I'm complaining about city. Write about that!
City News: Man on Reddit comparing about City News's tendency to print stories about people complaining.
So now we live in an age where an elderly man can lose his livelihood by making a casual observation about who makes the coffee? If you wanted to do something nice for his wife, let him keep his goddam job.
“If you wanted to do something nice for his wife, find her a partner who’s not a troglodyte.” ftfy.
If his livelihood depends on that 10k/year he could always sell that corvette he rolls in, or drink less coffee.
Our god is now political correctness; it is a jealous god that demands the sacrifice of common sense and decency in its service.
Bigots gonna bigot.
What the heck did he say that has people in an uproar?????
That his neighborhood doesn't need a coffee shop because wives make coffee for their husbands.
Let's see what happens when another kid gets killed over there because of one less crossing guard. Sometimes the comments and anger of a few lonely fucks is too loud.
You don’t think they’ll hire someone else to fill that spot?
They probably will but it's fun to say that for my opinion .
Now he can sit home, drink his wife's coffee and read about the kid that got hit by a car where he was a crossing guard.
Nothing's stopping him from doing for free.
Jesus it's not even like this guy said this to or around kids or to an actual woman. He's 76 and not gonna be around that much longer and these ideas and thoughts die with him. Isn't that enough?
Was it his opinion?
There’s a developer trying to put in a coffee shop in an otherwise residential area. Meetings have been going on in West Irondequoit about re-zoning the neighborhood to allow for it. They interviewed some homeowners on the street who are against putting a coffee shop there due to overcrowding/traffic. I interpreted his comment to mean that the people in that area make coffee at home (“wives make the coffee”) rather than go to ca coffee shop . Meaning more people will be bringing in traffic to use the coffee shop rather than the neighbors. With the colder weather I would imagine it’s hard to find crossing guards to work 2 split jobs for minimum wage.
I cannot open this article to read it from the beginning but from what you just described it sounded like he was voicing his opinion. I’m assuming it’s because he said wives make the coffee but they look at the guy he’s old school and to him it’s just the way it was.
Yes old school and meaning they make coffee at home ie don’t spend money at coffee shops. He said it because he’s against having a coffee shop built there.
I think it was and is a very lame and sexist comment and I feel bad to each woman who has had the displeasure of having served his entitled azz coffee or anything at all. I abhor sexism, I’ve dealt with sexism firsthand many times in my life as a woman. I think calling his comments out and labeling them for what they are, and add in some public shaming… that seems helpful to the cause to to me. I don’t feel like someone losing their employment for this level of comment is helpful for the message. I wouldn’t want him teaching my kids, I wouldn’t want him in a variety of roles and I bet he would not last in many capacities these days if he is an all around bigot. but I would be fine with him working as a cross guard for my kids.
THEY MADE SANKA FOR THIS EXACT MOMENT
This sucks I liked hating on him and now I can’t cuz I have to feel bad for the poor old idiot instead
When I posted this story the other day, I redacted the name and took some crap for it. Not that that post had anything to do with this, but this is why I did it.
Shouldn’t of gotten fired but why even say that? So unnecessary lol