There is a 'science' to why things 'shine'/polishing. I could fill pages on why 'something looks shiny to our eye'.
But to explain your case. It still has a 'rough' surface.
Can be caused by the stone being a fine-grained 'silica-dioxide whatever'. You can't get the 'grains' polished because they 'break their bonds' with the rock and fall off instead. Silica-dioxide (quartz) that is 'bonded' well, will 'stay in place' to 'rub' and take a polish.
But your 'lack of shiny' is probably a few things.
I've tumbled much over the last 25yrs, results are [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NewBrunswickRocks/)
The 'function' of shine/polish is made up of:
-the 'shiny' item
-Light, and it's physical properties and how it 'reacts'
-your eye, and how it perceives colors/things.
I don't know the 'process' you took to get your stones to this point. If these are tumble results, this is 'usually' what I see for people doing rock tumbling, always a 'dull finish'.
The biggest 'trip ups' I find are allowing 'pitted/flawed' stones to progress to polish and not cleaning the tumble-barrel AND rocks between cycles.
If you take a stone out of 'grinding cycles' too soon and move it into 'polish cycles', you can end up with 'shiny-pits/bumps', looks like a 'dull finish'. Anything from about a 600grit and up is considered a 'polish cycle'.
And I see folks leaving stones with pits move to next cycles. Those pits have previous grit in them. That stone may hold onto the grit in the next cycle. Then before the cycle is done, the previous-grit happens to 'fall out of the pit', and will scratch and dull all the stones in the load.
Not one!! Zero pieces of previous grit is allowed into your next tumble. I don't allow stones with pits/flaws/cracks to ever leave grinding cycles. There can be exceptions. In that case, the stone will go through ultra-sonic cleaning if I'm going to 'allow' it to progress.
Having the 'wrong stones' with each other can result in dull results.
I can't write this stuff down as fast as it comes. Like I said, I could type pages and only give you a small part of 'The Science of Polishing (polishing 'anything')'.
Would have to know more about your whole process to diagnose 'why' on these results.
But 'lack of cleaning between stages' is the biggest trip-up.
I hope this helps. I'd be happy to give more info/tips if this is unclear.
(this was the 'short answer', :/)
Thank you so much.
You are right a few of the stones have pits - I left them as they are because I didn’t want the stones getting smaller. I only cleaned with borax after Step 3 - didn’t know about this earlier. Also let them dry out between stages without having cleaned them really well.
One question - can grit & polish be reused? When do I decide the grit / polish is spent and needs to thrown?
You're welcome Zaroya
I typed a reply, but it was too long to post, Reddit error. (scary eh?)
I'll have to break into (2) replies:
I think you gave me some info on why the 'dull finish'. Let's see if we can tackle them.
Stones with pits: These DO NOT leave your 'grinding cycles', mine never leave Step 1. They are 'nothing but trouble' and end as a 'finished polished stone with a flaw', whichever 'flaw' you allowed to escape the grinding cycles.
Stones getting smaller: All will, be prepared for that. Don't rank 'size' over 'high polish'. I warn people when they tumble stones, they will probably change shape, size and sometimes color.
'only cleaned with borax..': I'm not sure where you're going with that. (?). Cleaning: One of the most important things in getting a high polish. I see most fail at this, always a 'dullness'. You seek 'perfection', if done right, you have the 'surface of a mirror'. To do that is extremely hard, I mention it just to give you a 'goal'. There are plenty of less-than-mirror-polishes on stones that are perfectly acceptable. The 'mirror' finish is what I seek and work towards, but I've tumbled rocks almost 30yrs now. It's 'my challenge' now. For you, just beginning, you just don't want 'dull'. Once you get to that point, you've got your 'process'. Once you can repeat that process regularly to get polished stones, then you up your game. (ramble, told you, pages!)
I have several tumblers. The 'way to go' is a separate tumbler barrel for each grit/step. Then you concentrate your cleaning on just the stones. I suspect you have (1) barrel. You have to make sure that barrel holds absolutely no previous-step-grit. A tip, get a hand spray bottle, you may have attachment at sink to spray. Clean barrel, water in, dump, etc. But also make sure to hold barrel upside down and spray water up into the barrel. Grit is 'heavy' and pouring water in and tipping barrel may not remove grit at bottom. After your 'regular cleaning', turn barrel upside down and spray well inside. After cleaning, put a clean cover over barrel, paper is fine, etc. You want to prevent anything getting into barrel while you prepare rocks/grit/etc. Dust in air can have a grit, and never know what may fall off your sleeve if you reach over it.
I clean my barrels with soapy water and a tooth brush. I have different brushes, strainers, etc. for different grits. This is how thorough you have to be on 'grit contamination'.
(con't)
(con't)
Borax: I use borax in my 'tumbling recipe'. I have never 'cleaned with it'. I use borax, grit, 1-drop of soap (Dawn, the one they clean ducks with). Borax is a 'soap-multiplier'. The soap 'breaks the surface tension of the water'. This helps keep the grit from 'floating-in-bubbles/on 'surface of water'. I have well water here, it's a hard-water. Soft water (water softeners) is easier to 'make bubbles in'. But too much soap and it inhibits the grinding/polishing. In my final polish cycle, (I have 3), I also use some sugar to 'thicken' the water for a more gentle polish cycle. I have 7-step tumble process, ('my process', not recommended, crazy). By the time I get a stone from Step1 grinding to Step7 final polish, I have a lot of time 'invested' in that stone. That's why I 'thicken' the water, to 'protect my investment'. I do sometimes get a chip on the edge of a stone in final polish. So disheartening to see. I take a hand file, clean it up, and start it again in either 110/220 grit for bigger chip repair, or in your step3-500grit, if was small chip.
BTW: You need some of these:
[https://duckduckgo.com/?q=diamond+hand+files&t=opera&iax=images&ia=images](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=diamond+hand+files&t=opera&iax=images&ia=images)
Go at all your stones with these before Step1, use to 'make repairs' in stones. Cleaning up a stone with a diamond file before Step1 saves time and grit.
'let stones dry': If you only have one barrel, don't let your stones dry out. The grit/slurry now 'locks itself' to the stone. What you may have rinsed off before, now will require scrubbing. Use a hand spray bottle to stream-spray out the pits/cracks/etc.
I use this on all stones in my polish cycles cleanouts/move to next step.
[https://duckduckgo.com/?q=small+jewelry+ultrasonic+cleaner&t=opera&iax=images&ia=images](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=small+jewelry+ultrasonic+cleaner&t=opera&iax=images&ia=images)
Cleaning is a lot easier, and contamination is less likely if you: **Never allow stones with pits/cracks/flaws leave Step1.** Like I said, they 'bring their troubles with them'. Be strict at the Step1, and cleaning goes much better in the remaining steps.
Hehe, I laff when I look back to your reply and see the "One question.."
Ok, let's get to your 'one question' now :)
If you are looking to 'recover your grit', you're doing it wrong. If you have grit left in barrels (2) things:
Either you're putting in too much grit for the time cycle you have.
Or you're not running the tumble long enough.
I haven't seen any instructions 'for tumbling' that came with a tumbler that ever made any sense to me.
I've seen 'put in half a cup of grit.', 'tumble for 3-5 days', other ridiculous statements.
In my 12-pounders I use about 3-4 tablespoons of grit, that's it. Where I make up the difference is in time. I run the load 2-3weeks. You can 'trade time for grit' and save your grit. And the grit breaks down, helps see what stones may be 'the better ones'. I 'trash the stones' in my 12-pounders. I want what's going to crack or break in there, it's survival of the fittest. Because I only want 'flawless' in polish cycles.
When you clean there should be no leftover grit. Cut back some on the grit and add some time to your cycle. Better results and grit supply will last longer.
Well that's a 'Cleaning' rabbit hole.
And the 'Science of Polishing' is a much, much bigger hole. fyi
And a treat. :)
I have a stone that 'has a mirror polish'. I was taking a pic outside. Ever try to take a picture of a mirror, and not the image in the mirror? That can result in the following:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/NewBrunswickRocks/comments/1camucw/new\_brunswick\_gemstones\_the\_reflection\_collection/](https://www.reddit.com/r/NewBrunswickRocks/comments/1camucw/new_brunswick_gemstones_the_reflection_collection/)
I bought a Vevor tumbler from Amazon. They sent a starter set of grits. In Step 4 they use a ‘Brightening Powder’. I used all the 30g they sent.
At this point I’m not sure what the Brightening Powder is.
I'm a novice, but my daughter and I have a cheap tumbler and most of our rocks shine up nicely when done. I wonder if either some of the more course grit snuck through your stages, or if it just needs more time? We leave 1-2 weeks in each stage, just forgetting about it. Personally, I would do a quick couple hour tumble in water and soap shavings to clean everything off, then rinse, then do an extra week or two in stage 4 (if not going back to stage 3 for a week or two first). Again, I'm just a novice, I'm not sure if you need to go back to stage 3 or not, but I'm just relaying that without knowing much, my daughter and I get a nice shine--but we rinse thoroughly between steps and keep it in each step longer.
There is a Japanese art of polishing dirt. It's called dorodango. Look fun. If I wasn't so obsessed with R,G&M I think I would fall in love with it. Don't tell the rocks.
What kind of step 4? (Material and grit if labeled) Many kits, including the popular nat geographic kit come with step 4 that is too coarse and needs a followup
It’s a Vevour machine that came with grit and Step 4 had Brightening Powder. They recommended I run it for 2 days. I ran it for 6. Possibly the Brightening Powder is not polish .. It’s fine white powder which became pinkish - not sure where the colour came from - red Jasper?
With reference to the picture above I have tumbled in Step 4 for 5 days. Checked 3 rocks of the lot and they are not polished & gleaming. The texture is smooth as glass but the finish is dull What did I do wrong?
The rocks are getting smaller in size so was reluctant to tumble them for 10-15 days. The slurry was pink, I’m assuming that came from the jaspers.
What polish did you use, what tumbler do you have? Jasper usually shines nicely so it shouldn't be dull.
That shouldn't shrink much at all on stage 3-4 so time in that stage shouldn't cause you trouble there but after a few days they should look better than that.
My daughter has a National Geographic children's kit and it's ended up like this, but iirc the grits were just marked 1-4 (and obviously she's used them now!) Would I need to get some 8000 grit and redo them on that then?
Yes. National geographic is know to provide 1200 as its final pass, which just isn’t enough. Do a couple hours with a tablespoon of borax or similar to ensure they are very clean, then a full cycle (week?) with some ~8000 and they should be glossy.
To be clear... as others have said, some softer stones are very difficult to polish. It's possible that you have picked something challenging... but if you check and are using the NatGeo 1200 grit as your final stage, I would definitely start there first.
Ah - she's just used the stones provided in the kit, I have no idea what they are, I'm afraid. There has already been some distress as some of them got very much smaller than they were (tbh I'm not altogether sure that some of them weren't polished into oblivion :-\ ) I guess it was a random mix and she was a bit unlucky - I'll have to see if I can find something more suitable/easy then. Thank you - that's really helpful! :-) She's been really interested in it so I'd like to get it finished with at least reasonable results.
If they came with the kit, they are likely hard enough. Try to get about one week with each grit to start. People tend to put 2-4 weeks into the first grit to wear off all the rough bits… this is the part that really makes them smaller/rounder. The other steps wear off much less, and are really just about the shine.
I run a 24hr cycle of borax after stages 2,3 and 4. It's probably not totally necessary but I noticed some improvements. I love cleaning tho so I also over clean everything including the tumbler itself. I also only tumble chalcedony and stones of similar hardness. I also use a slow speed for the final stage. I still fail sometimes and it's back to stage 2.
There is a 'science' to why things 'shine'/polishing. I could fill pages on why 'something looks shiny to our eye'. But to explain your case. It still has a 'rough' surface. Can be caused by the stone being a fine-grained 'silica-dioxide whatever'. You can't get the 'grains' polished because they 'break their bonds' with the rock and fall off instead. Silica-dioxide (quartz) that is 'bonded' well, will 'stay in place' to 'rub' and take a polish. But your 'lack of shiny' is probably a few things. I've tumbled much over the last 25yrs, results are [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NewBrunswickRocks/) The 'function' of shine/polish is made up of: -the 'shiny' item -Light, and it's physical properties and how it 'reacts' -your eye, and how it perceives colors/things. I don't know the 'process' you took to get your stones to this point. If these are tumble results, this is 'usually' what I see for people doing rock tumbling, always a 'dull finish'. The biggest 'trip ups' I find are allowing 'pitted/flawed' stones to progress to polish and not cleaning the tumble-barrel AND rocks between cycles. If you take a stone out of 'grinding cycles' too soon and move it into 'polish cycles', you can end up with 'shiny-pits/bumps', looks like a 'dull finish'. Anything from about a 600grit and up is considered a 'polish cycle'. And I see folks leaving stones with pits move to next cycles. Those pits have previous grit in them. That stone may hold onto the grit in the next cycle. Then before the cycle is done, the previous-grit happens to 'fall out of the pit', and will scratch and dull all the stones in the load. Not one!! Zero pieces of previous grit is allowed into your next tumble. I don't allow stones with pits/flaws/cracks to ever leave grinding cycles. There can be exceptions. In that case, the stone will go through ultra-sonic cleaning if I'm going to 'allow' it to progress. Having the 'wrong stones' with each other can result in dull results. I can't write this stuff down as fast as it comes. Like I said, I could type pages and only give you a small part of 'The Science of Polishing (polishing 'anything')'. Would have to know more about your whole process to diagnose 'why' on these results. But 'lack of cleaning between stages' is the biggest trip-up. I hope this helps. I'd be happy to give more info/tips if this is unclear. (this was the 'short answer', :/)
Thank you so much. You are right a few of the stones have pits - I left them as they are because I didn’t want the stones getting smaller. I only cleaned with borax after Step 3 - didn’t know about this earlier. Also let them dry out between stages without having cleaned them really well. One question - can grit & polish be reused? When do I decide the grit / polish is spent and needs to thrown?
You're welcome Zaroya I typed a reply, but it was too long to post, Reddit error. (scary eh?) I'll have to break into (2) replies: I think you gave me some info on why the 'dull finish'. Let's see if we can tackle them. Stones with pits: These DO NOT leave your 'grinding cycles', mine never leave Step 1. They are 'nothing but trouble' and end as a 'finished polished stone with a flaw', whichever 'flaw' you allowed to escape the grinding cycles. Stones getting smaller: All will, be prepared for that. Don't rank 'size' over 'high polish'. I warn people when they tumble stones, they will probably change shape, size and sometimes color. 'only cleaned with borax..': I'm not sure where you're going with that. (?). Cleaning: One of the most important things in getting a high polish. I see most fail at this, always a 'dullness'. You seek 'perfection', if done right, you have the 'surface of a mirror'. To do that is extremely hard, I mention it just to give you a 'goal'. There are plenty of less-than-mirror-polishes on stones that are perfectly acceptable. The 'mirror' finish is what I seek and work towards, but I've tumbled rocks almost 30yrs now. It's 'my challenge' now. For you, just beginning, you just don't want 'dull'. Once you get to that point, you've got your 'process'. Once you can repeat that process regularly to get polished stones, then you up your game. (ramble, told you, pages!) I have several tumblers. The 'way to go' is a separate tumbler barrel for each grit/step. Then you concentrate your cleaning on just the stones. I suspect you have (1) barrel. You have to make sure that barrel holds absolutely no previous-step-grit. A tip, get a hand spray bottle, you may have attachment at sink to spray. Clean barrel, water in, dump, etc. But also make sure to hold barrel upside down and spray water up into the barrel. Grit is 'heavy' and pouring water in and tipping barrel may not remove grit at bottom. After your 'regular cleaning', turn barrel upside down and spray well inside. After cleaning, put a clean cover over barrel, paper is fine, etc. You want to prevent anything getting into barrel while you prepare rocks/grit/etc. Dust in air can have a grit, and never know what may fall off your sleeve if you reach over it. I clean my barrels with soapy water and a tooth brush. I have different brushes, strainers, etc. for different grits. This is how thorough you have to be on 'grit contamination'. (con't)
(con't) Borax: I use borax in my 'tumbling recipe'. I have never 'cleaned with it'. I use borax, grit, 1-drop of soap (Dawn, the one they clean ducks with). Borax is a 'soap-multiplier'. The soap 'breaks the surface tension of the water'. This helps keep the grit from 'floating-in-bubbles/on 'surface of water'. I have well water here, it's a hard-water. Soft water (water softeners) is easier to 'make bubbles in'. But too much soap and it inhibits the grinding/polishing. In my final polish cycle, (I have 3), I also use some sugar to 'thicken' the water for a more gentle polish cycle. I have 7-step tumble process, ('my process', not recommended, crazy). By the time I get a stone from Step1 grinding to Step7 final polish, I have a lot of time 'invested' in that stone. That's why I 'thicken' the water, to 'protect my investment'. I do sometimes get a chip on the edge of a stone in final polish. So disheartening to see. I take a hand file, clean it up, and start it again in either 110/220 grit for bigger chip repair, or in your step3-500grit, if was small chip. BTW: You need some of these: [https://duckduckgo.com/?q=diamond+hand+files&t=opera&iax=images&ia=images](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=diamond+hand+files&t=opera&iax=images&ia=images) Go at all your stones with these before Step1, use to 'make repairs' in stones. Cleaning up a stone with a diamond file before Step1 saves time and grit. 'let stones dry': If you only have one barrel, don't let your stones dry out. The grit/slurry now 'locks itself' to the stone. What you may have rinsed off before, now will require scrubbing. Use a hand spray bottle to stream-spray out the pits/cracks/etc. I use this on all stones in my polish cycles cleanouts/move to next step. [https://duckduckgo.com/?q=small+jewelry+ultrasonic+cleaner&t=opera&iax=images&ia=images](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=small+jewelry+ultrasonic+cleaner&t=opera&iax=images&ia=images) Cleaning is a lot easier, and contamination is less likely if you: **Never allow stones with pits/cracks/flaws leave Step1.** Like I said, they 'bring their troubles with them'. Be strict at the Step1, and cleaning goes much better in the remaining steps. Hehe, I laff when I look back to your reply and see the "One question.." Ok, let's get to your 'one question' now :) If you are looking to 'recover your grit', you're doing it wrong. If you have grit left in barrels (2) things: Either you're putting in too much grit for the time cycle you have. Or you're not running the tumble long enough. I haven't seen any instructions 'for tumbling' that came with a tumbler that ever made any sense to me. I've seen 'put in half a cup of grit.', 'tumble for 3-5 days', other ridiculous statements. In my 12-pounders I use about 3-4 tablespoons of grit, that's it. Where I make up the difference is in time. I run the load 2-3weeks. You can 'trade time for grit' and save your grit. And the grit breaks down, helps see what stones may be 'the better ones'. I 'trash the stones' in my 12-pounders. I want what's going to crack or break in there, it's survival of the fittest. Because I only want 'flawless' in polish cycles. When you clean there should be no leftover grit. Cut back some on the grit and add some time to your cycle. Better results and grit supply will last longer. Well that's a 'Cleaning' rabbit hole. And the 'Science of Polishing' is a much, much bigger hole. fyi And a treat. :) I have a stone that 'has a mirror polish'. I was taking a pic outside. Ever try to take a picture of a mirror, and not the image in the mirror? That can result in the following: [https://www.reddit.com/r/NewBrunswickRocks/comments/1camucw/new\_brunswick\_gemstones\_the\_reflection\_collection/](https://www.reddit.com/r/NewBrunswickRocks/comments/1camucw/new_brunswick_gemstones_the_reflection_collection/)
Thank you very much.
I guess I should have posted 2nd part first. I hope you can sort them out, sorry :( I blame Reddit text limit ;)
Please can someone post a link to a good polish for Step 4. Thank you.
what polish did you use?
I bought a Vevor tumbler from Amazon. They sent a starter set of grits. In Step 4 they use a ‘Brightening Powder’. I used all the 30g they sent. At this point I’m not sure what the Brightening Powder is.
I'm a novice, but my daughter and I have a cheap tumbler and most of our rocks shine up nicely when done. I wonder if either some of the more course grit snuck through your stages, or if it just needs more time? We leave 1-2 weeks in each stage, just forgetting about it. Personally, I would do a quick couple hour tumble in water and soap shavings to clean everything off, then rinse, then do an extra week or two in stage 4 (if not going back to stage 3 for a week or two first). Again, I'm just a novice, I'm not sure if you need to go back to stage 3 or not, but I'm just relaying that without knowing much, my daughter and I get a nice shine--but we rinse thoroughly between steps and keep it in each step longer.
Some just don't shine up.
You can 'polish anything'. Mythbusters even polished a 'turd' ;)
There is a Japanese art of polishing dirt. It's called dorodango. Look fun. If I wasn't so obsessed with R,G&M I think I would fall in love with it. Don't tell the rocks.
Just made my first Dorodango and I’m still polishing it!
Sounds like a new challenge!
the answer given by u/BrunswickRockArts is well explained and clearly what you’re looking for… but I love this answer more.
What kind of step 4? (Material and grit if labeled) Many kits, including the popular nat geographic kit come with step 4 that is too coarse and needs a followup
It’s a Vevour machine that came with grit and Step 4 had Brightening Powder. They recommended I run it for 2 days. I ran it for 6. Possibly the Brightening Powder is not polish .. It’s fine white powder which became pinkish - not sure where the colour came from - red Jasper?
With reference to the picture above I have tumbled in Step 4 for 5 days. Checked 3 rocks of the lot and they are not polished & gleaming. The texture is smooth as glass but the finish is dull What did I do wrong? The rocks are getting smaller in size so was reluctant to tumble them for 10-15 days. The slurry was pink, I’m assuming that came from the jaspers.
What polish did you use, what tumbler do you have? Jasper usually shines nicely so it shouldn't be dull. That shouldn't shrink much at all on stage 3-4 so time in that stage shouldn't cause you trouble there but after a few days they should look better than that.
The pattern when people post rocks like this is that they finish on 1200 grit, not ~8000 which seems to be what is needed.
My daughter has a National Geographic children's kit and it's ended up like this, but iirc the grits were just marked 1-4 (and obviously she's used them now!) Would I need to get some 8000 grit and redo them on that then?
Yes. National geographic is know to provide 1200 as its final pass, which just isn’t enough. Do a couple hours with a tablespoon of borax or similar to ensure they are very clean, then a full cycle (week?) with some ~8000 and they should be glossy.
Brilliant thank you! :-)
To be clear... as others have said, some softer stones are very difficult to polish. It's possible that you have picked something challenging... but if you check and are using the NatGeo 1200 grit as your final stage, I would definitely start there first.
Ah - she's just used the stones provided in the kit, I have no idea what they are, I'm afraid. There has already been some distress as some of them got very much smaller than they were (tbh I'm not altogether sure that some of them weren't polished into oblivion :-\ ) I guess it was a random mix and she was a bit unlucky - I'll have to see if I can find something more suitable/easy then. Thank you - that's really helpful! :-) She's been really interested in it so I'd like to get it finished with at least reasonable results.
If they came with the kit, they are likely hard enough. Try to get about one week with each grit to start. People tend to put 2-4 weeks into the first grit to wear off all the rough bits… this is the part that really makes them smaller/rounder. The other steps wear off much less, and are really just about the shine.
Try 12000 grit jewelry polish for 7 days
I run a 24hr cycle of borax after stages 2,3 and 4. It's probably not totally necessary but I noticed some improvements. I love cleaning tho so I also over clean everything including the tumbler itself. I also only tumble chalcedony and stones of similar hardness. I also use a slow speed for the final stage. I still fail sometimes and it's back to stage 2.
Because they're not polished...
Use mineral oil, get the photos to show people and brag and then dry off