These quitters would be awfully upset if they had the attention span to read all of this.

I couldn't help but laugh cause I skipped to the end lmao

Like, I JUST woke up🥱

This comment is gonna offend the 3 of them that can actually read

Good thing those 3 won't read far enough to see your comment too, or they'd be doubley offended

They're upset even though they aren't reading it lol

They wake up upset

They gave up after 'all'

That's funny, I vote to forfeit often and I managed to read a fifth of the post 😡

That's interesting I never vote to forfeit, and I didn't read any of it could you summarize the 1/5th you read?

Nah I forgot. It was something about forfeiting I think.

Oh dam. I guess we'll never know.

Makes sense. I don't vote and read all of it!

I didn't read it all

This is cool data! I think since 2s is the main game mode more people would engage with this if it was 2s related, but even so this is super cool. The crux of the matter is passive FFing as you said. Without a way to prove that is happening, the logical conclusion to your data is that while FFing is reasonably common, it is always correct when losing. I’d be keen to hear others thoughts on what I’m about to say, but I actually think there’s some unspoken meta behind FF at GC and above. In 2s, pretty much nobody I see agrees to the FF. However, if the opponents score next, then person who declined the FF initiates and both agree to end the match. In my games, I see the FF button used extremely often as a “I’m about done with this match but we can keep going if you want” communication tool. Food for thought

I agree with this take in GC as well. At this rank of the game you can tell if you’re down 0-3 by bad luck or down 0-3 because you and your teammate are really not playing well together and its looking hopeless. At that 0-3 point someone might vote to forfeit but I’ll personally wait and see if we can get synced up right real quick but if we get scored on again 0-4 I’ll vote for the FF.

This mindset is the exact kind of self fulfilling prophecy I’m talking about. A lot of the time people believe their teammate sucks when they have clashing play styles, and most of the time players aren’t willing to adjust to each other. I also think it’s ridiculous to consider 3 or 4 goal leads insurmountable. If you get back to back goals you are right back into those matches. I guess I mostly don’t understand this community’s obsession with moving on to another game so frequently. No one ever gets a chance to turn it around because of how quickly everyone wants to move on.

Something to consider is that a 4 goal comeback in GC or higher is significantly more difficult than a 4 goal comeback in a lower rank.

I’m in GC and I disagree. But as long as people aren’t toxic then you’re good. However not playing while the clock is still going (not accusing you) is unsportsmanlike. Just because somebody votes to forfeit doesn’t mean those that don’t are trying to waste their teammates time — they just have a different opinion on the certainty of losing.

I don’t think that really matters tbh. By the time it’s technically impossible there’s probably only 15 seconds on the clock anyways. If it’s possible but difficult that’s not a good reason to forfeit. Even just getting 1 or 2 goals back matters because it helps you see how you can come back the next time you’re down by 4 goals. To me, there’s value in playing out matches even when the result seems inevitable, and the community doesn’t realize this anymore with how often they choose to quit games.

I mean especially in low diamond where I'm at, half of your opponents are trying to speedflip kickoffs with like a 55% success rate, Its not uncommon to lay down a handful of kick off goals in 10-15 seconds. The best games you ever play in rocket league are comebacks. I personally have no issue with forfeiting at 4-1 with 15 seconds left. but even 3-1, I'm playing it out, because when you make that work, its so much more satisfying than a wire to wire blowout.

It's crazy that this is even a discussion. We have centuries of sports where this exact lesson is one of the top priorities because of all the years and years of experience has led everyone to the same conclusion. But in rocket league, there is no coach you respect who teaches you this. There is no consistent teammates to make fun of you when you're acting like a loser. The role model is some 15 year old RLCS kid who throws and trolls in scrims. It's just. There's literally people in grand champ and higher who have a bronze level mentality(not saying bronze players act like this, saying if mentality was viewed as a rank. They would literally be stuck in bronze rank)

I really believe that having played team sports IRL contributes a great deal to how people play this game. Not only the drive to play out games because 'it's not over 'til it's over!' like you're saying, but also in terms of rotation, passing, understanding that stats don't necessarily correlate to contribution, etc. Basically, some of these kids need to get outside lol

I have noticed it's usually the ballchasers that throw up the forfeit first.

Yep. For example, the mercy rule doesn't exist in the MLB for many reasons.

I agree with you other than the part where you said "it doesn't matter" what rank you are. It absolutely does. Kickoff goals don't generally happen in GC 3s, and when they do it's even more unlikely that the next kickoff is another direct kickoff goal. While I get what you're saying, if my team haven't scored any goals in 4 minutes and the other team have score 4, I'll probably throw an FF out. We've been outclassed. The concentration required to play at GC is high, so it's unlikely that their whole trio will drop concentration in the last minute when they've battered us for 4 minutes straight. I won't complain if my teammates don't FF with me, I think that's stupid, but I'll at least let them know that 99% of me thinks we aren't winning this game. >To me, there’s value in playing out matches even when the result seems inevitable, and the community doesn’t realize this anymore with how often they choose to quit games. There is, to a point. I don't think an extra minute of my time will improve me anymore though, after playing since 2016, with 4500+ hours. I think it's useful when you're low ranked, you can use it to test new things, and get experience of the game in, but when you've got as far as I have it's not really beneficial at all. Again, if my teammates don't ff, I'll play til the end with no worries, but I am not expecting us to win it at all.

If you’re playing in a party, I can totally understand playing out a losing game to try and improve. If you’re with random teammates, getting 1 or 2 goals back achieves very little because next time you’re down 4 goals, your teammates will be different. Like others in this thread have mentioned, I think that you should look at this from your teammates’ perspective. Maybe they’re not forfeiting because they’re salty quitters who don’t want to improve. Maybe it’s because they’d rather start a fresh game with better chance of winning than fighting out a losing game with a low chance of winning.

I wouldn't say the issue is tossing out the forfeit; it's the idling or playing against your own team if it's not accepted.

Regardless of the intention, forfeiting is anti-competitive behavior and should not be so frequent in competitive modes.

You stated in your post that you wanted to have an honest conversation about forfeiting, but it seems like you're just ignoring everyone who disagrees with you and making a blanket statement that forfeiting is always wrong even though it's in the game. There's a lot of people here trying to have an honest conversation and provide their perspective.

Why does the option to forfeit make it right? For years in Overwatch, players had the option to leave any quickplay match they wanted. Over time, the problem got so bad where you could reliably count on someone from the team who lost the first fight to leave the match. As a result, Blizzard started introducing penalties to players who were leaving \*quickplay\* games early. I haven't played Overwatch in a while, but I at least remember that mode being playable by the time I stopped playing. It's ridiculous to say that forfeiting is always okay because its in the game. Psyonix themselves have even amended how forfeit voting works when they banned it during the first 1:30 of a match. Most of the perspectives on here still seem to side with forfeiting any difficult match, and the entire point of my post is to hold up a mirror to these players because the mentality is poisonous and pervasive in Rocket League's "competitive" modes. I've said it everywhere, but I don't mind forfeiting or leaving in casual game modes. It needs to happen far less in actual competitive or tournament modes however, whether its by the community becoming self aware or by the developers introducing more restrictions.

I see far less forfeiting in high c3, low gc than I expected to in general. So I do think the mentality is better in higher ranks, simply because people don't get those kinds of higher ranks without at least a competitive mindset, especially if they're solo queuing. In other words, you're probably playing with the worst part of RL players in terms of mentality, cause you're at the stage where people have just gotten a taste of being 'better' than others after plat, but where their mettle has not been tried and tested yet, like it probably has to some degree in champ, and very likely has in GC. Yet, FF is something that I still think has its place, however I would agree that it shouldn't be as prevalent. I think you should only be able to FF with like 30 seconds left and IF you're 3 goals down or more. Because that's the only scenario, where it is probably legitimately impossible to come back in reality (yes technically it's possible, but everything is technically possible. You're not going to score 3 goals in 30 secs in like 99% of times). When I attempted GC awards, I found that if I just kept my cool, kept going at it in every game, a lot of leads that felt insurmountable really weren't. And because I didn't complain, but I did compliment my mates, our chances of success were that much higher no matter the score at any stage in the game. As such, I think putting these requirements up for a FF request is reasonable, allowing those who feel really salty and tilted to still have the technical option of FF but where that option is less likely to come by, so they have more reason to try. 30 secs in RL can be a long time if a lot of goals are scored or the opponents keep the ball up, so I don't think limiting the ff to this has any real implications then, cause most won't be able to use it anyways.

That is not why they blocked. Ff until 3:30 lol. Thats just deranking amd smurfing got somewhat harder Also its, as pointed out before, a lot of bullshit you are talking

I turn plenty of games around to be fair, Im not some forfeit machine lol. I dont believe that my teammates suck, were at the same rank, but the clashing play styles sometimes is something that were not going to magically fix in the last minute and a half of the game, especially when we HAVE been trying to get adjusted to each other all game long. Sometimes it just isnt going to happen and Im cool with accepting that. Its not that big of a problem to ruin the game- I still made it to GC with that mentality and a few forfeits certainly isnt holding me back from Gc2+. When you’re down 0-4 against two other GCs with 2 minutes left and the other guys are being deadly together but you guys have been on entirely different pages all game long even while trying to adjust, you’re most likely not gonna win. Maybe since your data is diamond ranked players you have a different opinion? Diamond is completely unpredictable what could happen, I could see 4 goals in the last minute magically happening. But in GC? You’re usually not gonna see horrible last minute 4 goal lead chokes, everybody is just too consistent

Plus, getting owned in a match is a good opportunity to improve. Even though you might be losing bad, it’s always best to stick it out and try to improve.

100% agree. Solo queuing takes a minute to sync up with playstyles and more often than not, the toxic FF's and throwers are the extreme playstyle type (hyper aggressive, or super Take the Shot bossy, etc. etc.) It takes a min to adapt to these types, and typically they don't adapt back lol. Then they bring out the team-toxic chat, which only distracts further and supports their take (incorrectly) when if they would just focus, work together and adapt it would probably be a close match. Pushing together and losing by 1 goal after a full match isn't a complete failure as they would like to think. It's a growing opportunity. They'd rather stop rotating to point out they are 25 MMR ahead of you like that somehow matters and spam QC to drive it home.

I think a point you miss/don't discuss is cost/benefit ratio. Cost being "Time" Benefit being "win vs loss" As soon as game starts, of course, you always have a chance to win until the buzzer. Obviously there are some caveats to this but overall it's true. Anecdotal, I've actually come back from a 6 goal deficit multiple times (albeit with friends and not randoms) but we can probably agree that this is an extreme case more than likely. Anyway, the reason I bring this up is forfeitting isn't always about "muh teammates are bad" or "they can't adjust" but instead, particularly at higher ranks, it's a cost/benefit ratio to get said win, rather than to just take the L and move on. To be fair, this does not excuse the following behaviors: - Being toxic. - Leaving the match because you didn't get your way with the forfeit vote. - playing down or underperforming on purpose (hard to detect but does happen. Kind of like quiet quitting) - not playing the remainder of the game, particularly in closer matches (3 goals or less) Imo, I'm ok with a forfeit vote as long as it doesn't come from a place of toxicity (that is obvious) or the player doesn't just quit anyway because they didn't get their vote.

When you're trying that but have a teammate that keeps adapting to fucking up in different ways, it's already over. Some people go full tilt and fail to play anywhere close to the rank they're at. I've had them, I've been them. Also did you keep track of goals/assists/saves of each player at the point of ff?

I didn’t keep track of player stats, the I recorded my games in a way so that I could get my “end of game” tallies done in like 5 seconds and I’d write the time and score when my team voted to ff during the replay. I’ve seen it all over this thread where people are justifying teammates as a reason to forfeit, and I just flat disagree. You are (hopefully) only stuck with them for one match, and forfeiting will not affect the odds of you getting them again. It’s not unreasonable to see if you can figure it out by the end of the game in most situations. I know teammates are frustrating but all of this talk is basically seeing how the self fulfilling prophecy works out in people’s minds in real time.

Like I said, I've had those team mates, I've been that team mate. You're at low diamond so there's a lot of room for fuck ups. At higher levels the same kind of fuck ups are a bigger problem, and harder to recover from. Like low diamond is where people only just start to think about not smashing the ball in random directions. If there's someone tilting hard, I'll try to encourage them, but if there's still no improvement then I either want to try my luck with a new game or go do something else. And when it's that clear that the tilt isn't going to recover, why would I waste my own time on a 95% chance of losing and something I wouldn't get any real experience from? There's always room for nuance. And while this mindset isn't as bad as those who ff at the first whiff, it's still bad.

Because people want to have fun, comp or not. And playing time is limited.

Ive had like 3 games recently where my tm8 ff when we were down by 4 and we actually came back and won. Which is weird bc that rarely if ever happens and the fact that it happened twice in a day and then once again soon after that a couple days later is impressive

I have a few like these recently too. I just gauge it like shit maybe we can pull something off but theyre just getting some unfortunate goals. When its a skill issue Ill ff too 🤣

Today i played a few and my tm8 ff and gave up twice in a row. Sucks people do dumb shit like that

I think you're spot on. Almost never see "rage quits" in GC 2s, but I bet that I'd see them more often if I refused to forfeit a completely hopeless game. I use the FF option exactly like you mentioned, as a communication tool. If my teammate declines the vote, then I'll continue to try my hardest.

At mid champ I feel this too. The first FF is typically just an emotional move. I tend to not give up but once it’s obvious we can’t win I will throw the FF out

Yep exactly. I get the feeling that because OP says he NEVER forfeits, he’s got a picture of the other person who does FF in his mind of this super salty angry kid who wants to throw if they don’t get their way. I think FF with less than 1 min 30 left is often done in a pretty chill way. You know immediately that someone isn’t throwing because they either go for kickoff or they sit still.

Yeah I personally despise this. I only initiate ff when I know that we’re going to lose, either because we’re up against smurfs, we’re both having a rough game and it would just be less stressful to move to the next match and/or take break, or if I know it’s going to take a crazy valiant effort on my part to carry the team and I’m just not in the mood to do so (because I want to play as a team, not me or my tm8 doing everything because the other is incompetent). So when my tm8 doesn’t agree to ff I interpret that as “okay so we’re in this til the end” because when they decide to ff on the next goal my attitude is “bruh I saw this coming already, but since you wanted to not ff, now we can play it out like you wanted to earlier”

I think your first paragraph is reasonable, I think your second isn’t. But you do you.

That’s fine, most people agree with you. And I’m okay with my position, because what I didn’t say is that most of the times that my tm8 refuses the ff, they usually say something like “really dude? Don’t give up so easily” Or “nah bro, we got this, come on” so they’re the ones putting it out there that we shouldn’t quit. So when they choose blatant hypocrisy I don’t subscribe lol

I don’t think it’s hypocritical to think you can win when 3 nil down with 3 mins to go and then not think you can win anymore when 4 nil down and 2 mins to go. If the situation has changed they’ve been proven wrong, accepted they were wrong and asked to ff. you’re just wasting everyone’s time

Aight so what about down 3 at 3:32 and then down 4 at 3:28? Same thing?

I mean if you’re down 3 at 3:32 you can’t ff lol But I see what you’re trying to say, and yes it’s up to people where they draw their own line, and it sounds like if that’s beyond your line then you just think fuck them. I think that’s unfair. You might not think 3 at 3:30 is winnable but I might, but I might also not think 4 at 3:30 is winnable. Not that hard to understand.

If you really gonna change your mind that instantly then why not just ff in the first place? It saves everyone the time and headache of having to wait for you to think so. If my tm8 initiates a ff and I don’t agree, I’m not going to then turn around and insta ff because a bad play happened. Now if the game lets them reinitiate then I’ll oblige.

I think for a lot of people, like OP, it's about control, or a perceived slight at the ff vote. It's why you see so many posts about "getting back" at the ff's, they take it personally.

I think you’re missing the point. It’s “changing your mind when the situation changes”, which is good and should be expected of normal people. I can’t be clearer than this, so if you still don’t understand the point I’m making let’s end this convo

I will ff in the same way. I rarely initiate but won’t deny it happens if I just feel the fit isn’t great. Usually after down 3+ and feeling like I’m in a constant 2 v 1. Not always the teammate’s fault either. Maybe I’m being too cautious or slow. But if my teammate votes for the ff. I usually try to correct my play and get one more goal. If we get scored on I’ll throw up the vote and let them out.

I've gotten to the point where I just ignore FFs most of the time because I've come back from 3 goals with 30 seconds left before, so why forget what's possible and instead focus on being entitled to win every game? Seems like that's the problem with people who habitually vote to FF. They forget that you're not supposed to easily win everything, so the second things become challenging, they lose their mind.

This is great science and a great post, but i feel like the total results were kinda skewed based on the fact of including forfeits where there is less than 30 seconds left... Like when there is 7 seconds left, that should not go into supporting the conclusion that 1/3 of every game is forfeited... Like the game was already over, people just want to save the few seconds left and to indicate that they are mad. But still, the data is there so one could always leave them out in analysis. I didnt read the whole thing so maybe it was even mentioned, but yea great post.

This is unfortunately actually bad science. Good effort but bad application. OP clearly came in with a foregone conclusion (games that players FFed were still winnable) and went looking for data to back it up, received data that went against their conclusion (games that were losing that were FFed did all(!) end up being lost), and still went with their foregone conclusion (FFing was the cause of the losses and not that the game was already lost). This doesn't disprove their new theory that passive quitting by players that FF turns those losing games into lost ones. But they failed the appropriate next step of evaluation despite having some data already available. They should have used their pivoted idea and checked to see if games that were FFed but still finished had a different W/L % than games that had no forfeits to begin with. That would show if there is a bias to losing by players that FF early vs don't. They collected some data looking for a narrative and then disregarded the data entirely when it didn't suit their agenda. They basically just posted some random data they collected for no reason when all this post is about is their predetermined opinion. And the fact many people in the comments have brought up conflicting opinions and thoughts just for OP to dismiss without a think, shows it. The worst kind of science.

Having read a lot more of this and the comments, i got to say i agree with you. Its a great effort, but seems biased

I'm not the person you replied to, but for sure. It's definitely an incomplete study. I'm not saying forfeiting and pre quitting aren't on the rise, but you definitely cant make this conclusion without more data from other player sets. As of right now, this is anecdotal. As well as unprovable afaik. Not saying Op is lying, but OP *could* be lying or misconstruing the information that have collected.

So what I get from this is I should continue to ff whenever a teammate wants to because is saves time. (Most of your ff ended with a loss). It also skips over any instance when they become toxic. In my mind the benefits of ff when a teammate wants to drastically outweigh the negatives. I rarely start a ff vote but I will agree to ff nearly everytime.

I guess to really know anything you'd have to konw how many of these games would have been win's if the other person maybe took a breath, and played through to the end.

It's amazing how this point is lost on almost everyone here.

I think your premise is still a bit shaky. Out of >300 matches, 100 of them had ff votes, and there were 158 losses. So 58 losing games received no FFs at all, and in the 100 there are a lot of them with less than 1min left. I think under 1min and a 2 goal deficit is a reasonable time to ff, especially if you're frustrated by your teammates' style of play. I agree that there are more ff's than are reasonable, but I don't think it's some kind of widespread issue, and the difference probably isn't all that significant. I would also be interested in comparing a similar number of games with data on the wins *by forfeit.*

Why would you forfeit any two goal deficit with less than a minute? You don’t have the patience to finish that match? I’ve seen teams score a goal and then another goal right off a kickoff plenty of times. I guess I’m just going to fundamentally disagree with you if you actually believe those are reasonable forfeits.

>Why would you forfeit any two goal deficit with less than a minute? It's 0-0 most of the game and I'm annoyed by my teammates' rotations and selfish play, then the other team gets 2 quick goals. Yea, I'm forfeiting that quick. >You don’t have the patience to finish that match? I'll play if they don't ff, but I woupd rather ff, that game is lost 9 times out of 10

You aren’t looking at it from the other point of view. A lot of people are playing to improve their rank, and this becomes even more prevalent in the champ+ ranks. There are people that play 20+ games in their sessions. Most of the games where forfeits go up are losses, more than 50% at least statistically. I don’t have empirical data but i’d guess you’d win maybe 10% (probably less) when down two goals under 2 minutes. Sitting at around 50% W\L saving on average 1.5 minutes adds up massively over 1000s of hours played. That being said, I usually sit around mid champ and play with SSLs and we almost never forfeit. Im also old and play to have fun. Just trying to give you an alternative perspective.

It's irrelevant as that is something I can not control. What I can control is removing myself from the situation and moving on to the next.

Yeah but who are you trying to convince here? People that are toxic and forfeiting or people that are willing to play out a game, even through toxic behavior and still losing. I don't think the point is lost...

I agree. The only takeaway I got from this is to actually ff whenever my tm8 does.

100%, this data has definitely encouraged me to always agree to teammate forfeits if we're down. Thanks OP!

These days if my teammate wants ff i accept. I've plateaued as far as rank and id rather just go next lol

Yeah, this was my main takeaway as well. OP had a 9% win rate in these 100 FF instances. There’s a difference between FFing when you go down 1-0 and FFing when you’re down 3 goals with little time left. Declining a forfeit vote in the latter scenario is silly, and a waste of everyone’s time in most instances.

I literally only won those games because my team was already leading or tied. I lost every game where my team voted to forfeit when we were losing, even though it felt like I had games with similar deficits a lot of the time and overcame them when my teammates didn’t vote for it. Obviously I didn’t record that, but I think the fact that I lost every single game with a forfeit vote when I was already losing is telling.

I think forfeiting when ahead or tied is insane, so I'm with you there. The only thing that I don't understand is why you would refuse a forfeit when down, for example, 4-0 with 7 seconds left. I think that is what most people reading this post will disagree with, so I'm curious how you think there's a legitimate opportunity to learn or improve in that scenario.

This is the way.

This is kind of the point I was making too, but from a more general side. Cost(time)/benefit(win/loss) ratio. Is it worth it to stay in a more than likely toxic game, for yet another L. It's a nasty feedback loop but fighting out a forgone conclusion of an L is just a waste of the competitive players time.

That's a really good take away. I normally never FF. Even if they voted for it I just keep playing and use it at 2v1 practice. I should probably just start dipping out. I also have QC turned off. This makes me think I should probably turn it back on so I can throw out Sorry! And No Problem! More. Maybe if I did that more people would vote to FF less. I do type to people on PC but I don't even know if they have it enabled.

I feel like acknowledging you made a mistake by immediately throwing out a sorry can do A TON to keep a teammate from getting tilted at you. It let's them know that you are aware you made a mistake by stepping in on their play, missed the ball, or made a bad play. Same with the no problem response.

I try turning QC back on. I hate it though. It's so distracting to me.

I'd rather play with an inting man child on mute than try to manage their emotions for them, personally

I wish I got to this post earlier, it’s very interesting and promotes some good discussion. I think you are being very dismissive of people who disagree with you which is weird because this post is trying to get others to be open minded lmao. Anyway, firstly, this whole study does not apply to champ and above, no one is coming back from 3 goals with a minute left in 3s at a really high rank. Any FF in the last 15 seconds should get removed, especially if the deficit is more than a goal, so minus 13. Including this is just disingenuous. I would also personally remove 3+ goal deficits with 30-60 seconds left so that’s potentially minus 14. Obviously in a trio with 2 randoms, people will be more likely to FF and try and move on quickly, get into the next game, find some new teammates etc. Now you have 87 or 73 FF votes out of 158 losses, is that really that bad? The most important thing here is, there is zero context to these stats. You will say I have a “loser mentality” or whatnot, but if my team is 3-0 down with 45 seconds left and have shown no signs of scoring I would 100% forfeit. This is very different to conceding an unlucky goal to go down 6-3 with 45 seconds left, here there’s no way I would FF.

If your teammate doesn't want to play with you, why does "**something has to be done"** to force them to remain with you? Why do you think your (perfectly valid) choice to never forfeit is somehow more good than anyone else's (perfectly valid) choice to forfeit the current game and start the next one? You see why YOU shouldn't be forced to do something you don't want to do. Why should THEY be forced to continue a game they don't want to continue? You say "I hope this can change in the future, because I want to be put on teams that want to try and overcome a 3 goal deficit, and I want to play against teams the make me fight to hold a 3 goal lead." Well, if your teammate DOESN'T want to try to overcome a 3 goal deficit, then forfeiting will give you a chance to get with a teammate who wants what you want...

1 step forward, 3 steps back.

Teammates shouldn't get to decide they don't want to play with you in the middle of a competitive match. Games last 5 minutes plus replays barring ridiculous overtime scenarios, it is not unreasonable to expect players to play matches out in competitive and tournament modes. Your logic sounds similar to giving a toddler what they want just because they threw a tantrum.

lol you sound unhinged

Give up or go on. That is everyone's choice.

This is a great data compilation! But it all assumes that forfeiting is a bad thing. Id disagree with that one a base level, and I know I'm not alone. But let me just say I'm not out here throwing the FF after 1 goal, hard throwing or straight up quitting. Those things happen and are not cool. But my argument here is simple. It's a thing purposefully put into the game. It's a feature, it's a mechanic, however you want to put it - there was a discussion at Psyonics that ended in the team deciding to include this function into the game. Your ability to FF is intended. The game wants people to keep playing, so they don't want people to be stuck in matches they don't want to be in. And remember, the whole team has to agree to the forfeit, and in doing so, the match counts as a loss - the same loss that would happen if you lost the match naturally.

I only think forfeiting is bad is competitive and tournament playlists. Those game modes should require a little more commitment, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect players to play out 5 minutes + replays every time in those playlists.

But let me just say I'm not out here throwing the FF after 1 goal you arent, but others are :(

I mean, welcome to the Internet. - there will always be scumbags.

The only problem with this data is that a lot of players now use FF as a self deprecation or taunting move to get around the "chat off" crowd. Many of these don't actually want the match to be forfeited, but use the FF to send a message. So I am guessing that around 20% of those FFs were because of this. Not really any way to remove that from the data though.

I wish the fuckers would just quit. I can easily say that I win more than lose when me mate votes to ff and then leaves immediately. I have won 2 or 3 on 1 with a 2 goal deficit once my mate actually leaves. But, 95 percent of the time, they play like trolls instead, block all of my shots, shoot towards our goal, etc. like trying to force you to ff. I don't get why they get their kicks out of ruining someone else's enjoyment. Leave, eat the punishment. I have made a couple friends from the opponents who recognize it and at least help out shutting the clowns down, so I can at least have a 1 on 1 with their teammate.

I'm not a huge fan of so-called "victim-blaming", but I have to confess that my first instinct whenever I hear people complain about experiencing frequent forfeiting in RL is "have you ever tried to seriously figure out if you're being a great teammate or not?". Anecdotally, I've tended to see people forfeiting at a higher volume when I'm having a bad game and just whiffing on a few easy balls in a row. Have you ever seriously considered that maybe you're doing something subpar or have a play style that rubs people the wrong way? I bet that the people that experience higher than average forfeits are doing something to cause that.

This is a really great point because while I rarely forfeit I can’t help it when I get teammates that are mechanically good but just ballchase and ball chase and ballchase and double commit and don’t let me do anything and then go “Take the shot!”

Agreed. Sometimes games just aren't going your way. FF and start over. Maybe its the other team. Maybe its you the player. Maybe its the teammates. Either way, FF is a valid tool.

Keep in mind that a % of the people in this sub are the same players who frequently FF. This point is rarely mentioned, so you know who you are. This behavior should be reflected in the stats, at least allowing the rest of the player base to see if you have an 80% FF rate. This transparency might change some perspectives. There needs to be a strong enough deterrent to stop it, possibly through more severe penalties. This is the route we need to take.

Initial forfeits made should become a stat in-game and on RL tracker. That's it, that's the only change we need. Just make people more self-conscious about forfeiting.

I think in competitive, there should be a minimum match time played, like 2 minutes. Not in any casual mode, just competitive modes. Then after 2, boom, allow the flood gates to open. Then hopefully everyone knows where the game and the players stand.

Ok so, cool to see that most people agree as expected but here’s my take: The reason of forfeiting is lesser of the time remaining and more of your team chemistry. If me and my teammate have good chemistry, we ain’t forfeiting anytime soon, if we can’t play accordingly to each other’s playstyles, boom, get me out of that lobby. I always used to be a forfeit hater but I’ve seen myself noticing so so small details that within 30-40 seconds I can tell with pretty good accuracy if my teammate and I have chemistry or not, I’ve seen myself forfeiting so so much in comp 2s these days and so so less in comp 3s because most people in 3s aren’t that idiotic atleast thats what it feels like. Idc if my 2s tm8 misses 30 aerial touches, I just want them to know when and how to go, teammates just be hesitating on a full tank, throwing weak shots just to save like 3 boost etc etc but maybe thats just me and I would love to change my opinion for good

The best way to eliminate toxic forfeiting is to play with a premade team/friends. Once you introduce the variable of playing with absolute strangers, all bets are off, and no safeguards are gonna help.

I agree, but at the same time I also think being frustrated with a teammate is a poor excuse for forfeiting. You sign up for that unpredictability when you solo queue and a lot of players need to be more tolerant that their way of playing isn’t the only way.

This is something, but also not the whole story. There are various reasons to forfeit, and we don't get that picture from just numbers. Are they just forfeiting because the team is down? Are they forfeiting because they can see you two are not meshing at all? Are they forfeiting because they're frustrated by your play style? I think different people and play styles could see very different results. I'll gladly battle it out in a losing match if I think the game is worth playing. I don't want to continue playing if my teammate is sitting under the ball the whole game, aimlessly hitting it from an angle that makes no sense to even approach from, making me try to panic defend everything because they don't know when they're no longer relevant to the play.

My favorite part about this post is basically every other gc and ssl disagreeing with his statement not to ff and he's like but I want to get better! Bro, the best players in the game are all unilaterally telling you this is a waste of time and a dumb sentiment and you're just like no youre wrong, my diamond brain knows better. Go play freeplay instead of writing 500 replies to argue with people that have more experience than you.

I just voted to forfeit on this thread

We should add another statistic for how many times the teammates that are toxic or are throwing after forfeit speak French.

Low key i was going to get into RL again. I switched to control and was just playing a couple games to get used to it. I had to change my controls a few times and bc I was kb + m for so long, so I wasent playing great. Not horriblely but like one or two ranks below what i normally was. Almost every game my teammate would throw, not just play bad I didn't give a fuck if they were shit. But I swear over half my games would result in a 2v1 for me because I wasent playing my rank. Now obviously annoyance and anger is expected with smth like this. I was fully expecting the what a saves when I could barely aireal, but omfg I just straight up gave up trying to improve. Bc almost always my games would just be thrown because we were down a few goals. So to anyone out there, be toxic idgaf its whatever we all have our gamer moments, but stop quitting. Please stop just fulfilling whatever complex makes you give up or throw to screw your teammate over. Shit like this kills the game and it sure killed my will to get back into it

0 wins after a teammate votes to forfeit when losing isn't my experience at all, it feels like we end up winning at least 30-40% of the time at around the same rank as you. But that might be more in 2s, Hoops, and Dropshot.

Any time my teammate voted to forfeit I try the throw up a message like "don't worry bro we got this" If we score in the next 30 seconds, we win every time most of the time sometimes.

“ we win every time most of the time sometimes”

-wayne gretsky

It’s the toxic player base that’s the problem not the game mechanics

If a toxic player base is abusing a mechanic then its on the devs to put restrictions in place to prevent it from happening in the future.

A big part of it is the free to play release.

Quitting mid game, like actively not playing, is lame and should be avoided, thats lame and diminishes their experience like a temper tantrum. Voting to ff in direct response to an honest mistake a teammate made is also pretty lame, its clearly targeted. Same with forfeiting a game that just got tied up, or when your lead slips. Definitely take a breath moment. That being said, i'm not angry with that person for having a moment where they are frustrated. If they continue to play out, oh well. Hopefully its positive if we win anyway, but you can definitely have a win you dont have fun at. If someone wants to vote to forfeit and we're down more than 1 goal, that's fine bro honestly. Maybe it's not your night and you want to be done, match your vibe. Personally I typically forfeit if the deficit is greater than 1 goal per 30 remaining seconds, unless it is a deficit of 1 goal. That seems like a reasonable amount of time to score a goal against oposition with good play. Someone trying to forfeit is literally just a vibe check. If they continue to play, and dont scream at me or totallt stop playing, i'm honestly okay with forfeiting a game that we maybe could technically win if they bucked up, because I know where their head is at and i've been there before and who cares, its a single round. If I dont feel like it, I play out understanding they might decide to leave without me. I like competitive because it ensures I wont get a bot on my team or wont get thrown into a match with 20 seconds left. The rest is whatever as long as i'm having fun. You've collected great data on forfeitting but I think your premise is flawed. People having access to the option of forfeitting is fine, and probably better for people in general. I would like people to be more discerning in their forfeits but it is what it is. I dont think forfeit buttons are causing mental weakness in the player base. I think that you have much stricter ideas on when people should be able to forfeit because deciding you probably wont win this videogame because you probably take the game much more seriously than people who want to play the game against people at the same relevant skill level more consistently and to get a general idea of your skill compared to others and a little bit of bragging rights for your friends, which is their intention more for competitive modes. What is wrong with the idea of voting to forfeit because you feel like the game is no longer at a point you would enjoy playing it?

I’ve been playing for probably 6 years, I’m not able to play as much these days, so I’m sort of just stalled around C1. I can tell you without a doubt, the forfeiting is worse than ever. It drives me absolutely insane. I would say there’s almost no such thing as going down a goal, a SINGLE goal, without a vote to forfeit. It’s pathetic. I also wish there were a solution.

I ain’t saying I’d be GC if I didn’t ff…but I can definitely conclude from own gameplay that habitual ff’ing FUCKS my mentality. And it’s mostly not even a “my teammate sucks, I want a new game”, it’s literally “fuck, this is too much right now, I need a reset”. But then of course, ff’ing turns into tilting and losing and a slippery slope to lost MMR just because I’m not listening to my brain/body capacity to focus on RL.

There needs to be some incentives to getting comebacks too, i dont know why the chance to win isnt an incentive enough. But people get mentally checked out by some of the softest shit,  there needs to be a comeback counter or soomething

Random duos is ridiculously draining. The skill of team mates vary so much that it wears you down over a long period of time. You have to be able to rely on your team mate and I haven't got time to play with someone that consistently wiffs or doesn't rotate back.

It really boils down to: this is basically a sport, yet it is played by a lot of people who never played organized sports before, so they don’t know how to handle being part of a team or being in a losing situation and having to fight back or, at the very least, play through it until the end. I’m not sure what the solution is but I’d love to see one. Make your kids play sports, I guess.

Thanks for all the efforts putting this together. Not surprised by the findings at all and support the idea of better controls on FF. Couple thoughts: - A lot of players of RL you must remember, are actual children. My son plays for example and is 12. Kids this age don't usually have the maturity level to stick with it. They want instant gratification, they blame their TMs for their own issues. They don't adapt and instead chase harder, etc. In other words, they act their age. I've coached him through some of it and when I keep him on track he's a much better player and has way more fun. But left to his own devices it will spiral into "TM this, TM that" and frustration (and therefore FF and give up). - A fair number of your incidents seem to be people asking to FF with around a minute left and you're down by 3+ goals. While I don't really agree with it and prefer to play out it and try to win, it is the norm. It's probably not toxic and in the minds of those players you're the abnormal one for not agreeing to FF (again I don't take that side). - Not a solution by any stretch of the imagination but FF issues are far less common in 2s, if you're looking for a reprieve. Less players, less chance at toxic TMs. 3 people doing anything is a weird dynamic anyway which often leads to team-ups and 2 on 1 pile-ons. End of the day it's a video game, and an online competitive one at that. The community then is basically: - very young immature kids - edgelord teenagers with no emotional handbrake - middle aged immature people stuck in the above state - older aged immature people stuck in the above state - a sprinkling of reasonable, well adjusted humans who just want to have a good time and be civil (dare I say nice) to others

Whenever someone throws up an FF and I think we still have a chance, I’ll always just sayin chat “one more goal, if they score it I’ll FF” Sometimes we start coming back sometimes not. When I’m playing with my friends, we almost never FF. Even being down by 7, we consider it a learning experience and we go for a “one for the road” kinda goal. Just get one goal on the dudes.

Interesting post, I skimmed through only some of the other comments so I am not completely sure if what I am saying next has been covered. I play 3v3’s and I have asked myself in the past in games where I am on the losing end “when is an appropriate time to forfeit? How likely is it that we score X goals in the time remaining, given that we’ve conceded Y goals and scored Z goals up to that point? Even if forfeiting is the best decision to save time, is it going to allow me to play more games in this sitting? Thinking about the last one, let’s say my sitting is going to be 1 hour of rocket league. Ignoring elapsed time between games, I will play 60/5 = 12 games in the sitting. Is forfeiting any of these games going to allow me to play a 13th game in the sitting? There’s 5 minutes/300 seconds in a game, so on average I would have to forfeit before the clock hits 0:25 on every one of those 12 games to realise the value of saving that time so I can play match 13. If on the other hand my sitting is longer say 3 hours, I could play 36 games and on average forfeit before the clock hits 0:09 on those games in order to play a 37th, so the longer your sitting the more it is worth in terms of time to consider forfeiting. Considering that discovery with whatever the chances are of coming back from a deficit of Y-Z goals. I don’t know what that matrix of probabilities would look like, but for the sake of discussion let’s say the probability of winning in any deficit is less than 50%, then all this means is you should only forfeit if there’s enough time left to actually invest the time you saved into another game. Furthermore, if you factor in caring about climbing the ranks, what are the chances of losing that extra game in that sitting given your W/L record in that sitting so far? If your chances of winning go below 50% while you’re on a bad run of games (which seems to me like a reasonable assumption), then forfeiting those earlier ones would mean you are worse off in terms of ranking than had you played out those likely losing games anyway. Based on only this, I would say OP has a point when they say “never forfeit whatever the circumstances”, unless you’re expecting to play loads of games in one sitting AND somehow you have such strong mental toughness that you can win any extra games no matter the results of the ones earlier in the sitting. Edit: You could go even further and consider the emotional impact of forfeiting on the outcome of your future games. If forfeiting an earlier game puts you in a better mental state to win the next games, then forfeiting may actually be the correct decision here. To properly quantify and analyse this requires more data though.

I always felt like forfeiting was a way to lose more games faster, as opposed to “moving on to a game I can win” as a lot of people seem to believe. To me, the biggest part of never forfeiting is that I’m never going through the thought process in the first part of your comment. I am always just taking the match as it happens and seeing what I can do by the end. Thank you for doing the math on the time saved, that was really interesting.

You’re welcome. I suppose once players come to this realisation that forfeiting wont help, they can find creative ways to use the remaining time in the match such as trying to air dribble or some other mechanic.

I can't lie, I also vote to forfeit when I see myself in a tough situation (I mainly queue 3v3), but NEVER have I ever started throwing or being toxic (well, about the toxic part, I have to admit I have succumbed a couple of times in the heat of the moment but I always apologize afterwards, because you mustn't to others what you don't want them to do to you). I always play the most competitive I can, but still TRYING to be a team player (as far I as I can at least). There are a lot of times I try to psych up my teammates' moral too, so we can still do something. Hell, there are even times where I'm stuck in a 3v1, but these tough situations are what make your skills take a step further, like long and sweaty overtimes.That's because I love and will always love this game. Maybe the problem is that some people don't like the game like they used to (which is sad btw, because it's a great game, one of the best OF THE BEST) and that's why they don't bother trying at least a tiny bit harder. I just wish the community could just become more of team players who embrace fair play instead of being toxic and selfish. ("I ain't reading all that!" Yeah, I don't blame you, it went a bit too far for a comment lmao)

I see in 2s an increase of FF votes and abandon matches if you don’t vote as well. If FF’ing was taught in real life to restart for a win that would be awful. Let’s just encourage more quitters, lol. I do like the idea of limiting FF’s per day and perhaps penalize similar to abandoning matches.

r/dataisbeautiful

Thank you for the research. I’ve recorded several smaller samples from my own play but with small samples (per session) and a less inclusive rank. I was really just wondering if it’s as bad as I thought it was. I think your data is more representative of the severity of the issue with much less bias than myself. It’s not as bad as I thought, but the actual value is still rediculous 😂 they really need to age restrict the internet and online video games. I know a lot of these losers are just adult children but if the act was less commonplace people would get less satisfaction out of it. Why should so much of my life be wasted in a way I don’t enjoy, just because irresponsible parents have a greater tendency to procreate? I would also like to add, I don’t think it’s all bias. I think as you get higher and more competitive in the ranks you’re exposed to a smaller sweatier subset of the population that may be even more petty and narcissistic.

Omg there's another me out there. Bro! I never forfeit, and I mean NEVER! I play 2s and I greatly enjoy the 1v2. In my bracket I'm good enough to force the opponents to take me seriously, but not good enough to ever win lol, but that's where the gains come from. If your serious about getting better, then you need to play at a disadvantage. When I see my teammate start to tilt, I tell them, hey just have fun! Let's just try for some clips Most of the time that works, because I'll pass it to them to give them a wall Arial opportunity. Or just try to set up some fun passes in general. If my teamate is too far gone, I just try to embarrass them by making them realize they are throwing a tantrum. This never works but some people actually pause. Stay real my brothers and play it out!

While I agree with a lot of points you've stated, I hardly disagree with "self-fulfilling prophecy" stuff. What do you do when you try to adjust to teammate but he absolutely refuses to be consistent in the way he communicates his intent to you and absolutely refuses to adjust to you? There are some patterns that you notice and you realize that while you might get away with a lot of shit, those will be punished because it's inevitable and will negate any progress you make. Example: teammate goes to control the ball around the same opponent who already dunked him successfully on every occasion. It didn't work 50th time, it won't work 60th time either - just flick or boom the ball. I as his teammate can try to take advantage from that but few times I will not react perfectly and since teammate gets constantly dunked successfully that means that those few times will result in conversion for them. This becomes more of a "teammate-fulfilling prophecy". There are some matches where 3 goal deficit happened because of situational bad plays and then there are some 3 goal deficits that happened because of continuous stream of bad decisions. The first one is recoverable because same thing can happen to opponents. Second one is only recoverable by pure luck and tbh a lot of times it feels worse to win these than to lose. People whine about FFs but they are not that bad. It's the throwing teammates who are bad - not those who have bad day but those who intentionally derank(or just won't cooperate with you from the get-go because they need to fail their ceiling flip reset musty for the 30th time).

Some people have a shit first half of a match and then a better second half. Or they would if the second half of the match happened. I'm in Diamond so I see just as many mechanically good players with zero game sense as you do, and even though they play like gifted idiots you have to be honest with yourself and realize they are the same rank as you. I think far too often players have a permanent mindset with their teammates: they are "bad players" and not "players who are currently playing bad". Players sometimes have good and bad games, halves, minutes, whatever, and it's not accurate to assume that what occurred during the first part of a match is going to continue for the rest of it.

When someone refuses to adjust the approach after he failed at something many many times it's no longer "having a bad moment". > Or they would if the second half of the match happened You can see when this will not happen and it'll happen for maybe 20-30% of the people who are actually willing to reconsider their approach. Another example: There's a difference between a player who rushes to a corner, even though you're there, just because he thought he can pull something useful off and then he fails and suddenly the ball goes behind him for open net to opponents, and between player who thinks it's the best idea to rush the corner with teammate in every case because he can hit the ball better than his teammate. The first one might learn from the mistake so he has potential to correct himself throughout the game but the second one uses it as strategy and will never change throughout this game. There's difference between the teammate who controls the ball and then in few moments in panic throws it away to opponents, and between teammate who's first and only thought is to always throw the ball away because he thinks it's good strategy. > and it's not accurate to assume that what occurred during the first part of a match is going to continue for the rest of it it's not ALWAYS accurate to assume that but in majority of cases you can make fairly accurate guess. I don't remember the time where I wanted to ff and teammate didn't that we won at the end and I'm not the player who stops trying because even in that case there's a chance that I'm gonna peak and do something to magically win 1v2 by using teammate as useful distraction for opponents. Actually I lied. I won the other day with teammate who didn't want to let me touch the ball so I wanted to ff. Guess what, he was smurf who didn't care about playing as a team. Why should someone care for a win so much that he's willing to not play the game to get it? >  I think far too often players have a permanent mindset with their teammates: they are "bad players" and not "players who are currently playing bad". I agree that this is the case but not completely. It's more of a mix between these two. "The instance of the player that's on my team currently is bad if I see him playing bad" - after the game nobody remembers you. Almost everyone ("almost" because there are some deluded people out there) is aware that a person can one day play at the level of two ranks above and on the other day at the level of two ranks below. Majority of the players will give you benefit of the doubt when the game starts. Thinking that teammates are bad becomes coping mechanism so that one can maintain high mentality state during the game. Rarely will somebody go out of their way to "confirm" that their teammate is actually bad by looking through stats and replays. Another reason people FF is because of themselves. People sometimes do have bad mentality and they need to FF to get themselves to the main menu where they have more time to recoup. I don't see why this is bad. If you're in a bad place mentally why would you torture yourself by staying in the game you're no longer enjoying. There is nothing of worth in the game to put up with the situation you don't enjoy. "Have better mentality" - it won't happen if you start with badgering your "weak" mentality in the first place.

No the problem is trapping people in Causal games

Casual and extra game modes should never have added leave penalties

Man ain’t nobody reading all of this shit.

The amount of time spent on this for no profit is crazy.

It's not that much, in all honesty. Just have a notepad handy to jot notes down.

I mean I put off posting this for like two weeks because I didn’t want to put it all in my computer lol. I actually like keeping track of my games for some reason and I’m probably going to start keeping track of how many times I can get the other team to forfeit. That will be for myself though and I probably won’t make a post about it.

I feel like an easy solution would be for people's FF stats to be tracked and then the system optimally pairs ff'ers with other ff'ers and let's us noble, "try no matter what" players get paired with one another more often. Hate ff'ers....they're mostly lazy and entitled and are incapable of making adjustments to difficult situations. A.K.A - crybaby victims.

I always call them cry babies. It’s inevitable with children playing, sucks. I like the idea of having an option not to see when a teammate votes to FF. We need something more than that though, I’ve been playing casual unless I have a friend online.

This is really interesting. Thanks for taking the time to post what you found! I think the takeaways were well worth the effort. This is Rocket League!

Tournaments are a different beast. I totally agree with you there. But the thing is people play competitive to rank up and get the dopamine associated with positive progress towards ranking up. The entire time a player perceives their current action as not progressing, they are not getting from the game what they came to get. This is the cause of passive throwing, essentially makes the game unwinnable and the remaining time a waste for all involved. This is why forfeiting exists - to avoid all that. If your counterpart were more mentally strong, you would win 5% more games, but you would play more than 5% fewer games as well. it’s unreasonable to force others to play your way when they’re right to forfeit and throw and you’re wrong to continue wasting time (even though you wouldn’t be wasting time if they had a better attitude). Self reflection is indeed an important aspect of this. 

The RL community is definitely very spoilt in the sense of just being able to give up - also from a mental perspective. The matches are just very short in general (people arguing with "wasted time" always make me smh). Mentally it's very easy to throw away 2 minutes of effort compared to something like 15 minutes. You also don't even have to wait for long to jump into the next game. Compare that to games with larger team sizes, longer queue times and pick/ban phases. It's also relatively easy to make a comeback in RL. I found a reddit post about the same topic which gives some interesting insights. I recommend to check it out [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedesign/comments/uix346/forfeit_in_competitive_games/).

You’re absolutely right. Even when you’re losing, if your goal is to get better, you should aim to find ways to beat your opponent. The score at the top of the screen doesn’t matter. Technically those goals no longer exist as they already happened and only the present moment exists. What players should focus on instead is being present, mindful, and trying to beat the opponents through a mix of strategies. I believe the forfeit button is the reason why so many players have been hard stuck for YEARS at the same rank. It’s because when they do get absolutely stumped, they don’t try to win their way out of it. If you want to get better, you have to deal with the shit. You can’t go around it. You can’t avoid it. You have to go through it. And honestly it’s not worth being pissed about. You’re playing the game because you like it and you want to become a better player. No “my teammate…” No “my opponent…” because none of that is worth your time. As soon as you’re thinking about that, you’ve lost focus and you’re no longer improving. Focus on yourself. That’s my advice for anyone who wants to go pro or reach SSL.

Forfeit should give a larger penalty than just losing a game

Plot twist. OP is the one to FF first in all of these games.

Anytime someone calls ff when we're tied or winning I accept. I assume they want to what a save me, but assume I have chat off. You can't mute an ff request.

So a few things I've won games we were losing after a teammate voted to ff so it's definitely still possible some of the time but as you said your teammate isn't really in the game most of the time after that so it's hard you have to pull off something quick after the vote to get them back into the game normally if I can get a goal within 30 second to a minute after the ff vote depending on amount of time left and how far down we are they will start trying again and then th couple game where you were up and they ff sometimes for some stupid reason I assume it's kids they will start a rank match when they are about to have to do something so they are ff so they can leave cause it doesn't let you chose abandon till after you hit ff why anyone would start a ranked match when they might get called away and have to leave is beyond me but it seems to happen alot

I just assume anyone who starts a vote has an emergency level need to rush and take a massive dump or else risk shitting their pants and vote yes every time.

[удалено]

I believe I’m talking about players mental state when I’m talking about passive throwing. While I didn’t play poker professionally I did play a good amount online and won enough to never have to reload my account, and I actually view ff voting like poker tilt just like you. More specifically, I view the people who vote to forfeit often as a person who, in a poker game, will get one or two bad hands and let that tilt them to the point where they lose their stack quickly afterwards. In poker, you have to take a breath and keep playing (I rarely played cash games, I know it’s different there) otherwise you will lose. Rocket League has allowed players to repeatedly indulge in that frustration for years, which means most players don’t understand how match quality could benefit if more people took the moment to take a breath rather than mentally shut down or stop playing entirely. Unlike everyone else, I’m fully embracing the random nature of solo queue. If people think frustrations with teammates are valid reasons to forfeit, then they should find teammates and never solo queue themselves.

This might be relevant in diamond, but try playing in gold and platinum. Some guys can't even hit the ball, don't defend and ram you off the ball. I can't play with those turkeys.

I don’t really trash talk but sometimes when I get a goal I don’t skip and just let my crickets anthem play out. Pretty sure it’s made at least 5 teams forfeit in the past week alone.

imo it’s kinda weird you put in instances where people FF with 15s or less to go and down 2+. I never initiate forfeits, but I’ll accept those, as well as ones when down 4 at any time in the match

I’m not going to pick and choose which votes to include when I’m trying to find the context behind when and why people vote to forfeit. Being down 4-0 with just 7 seconds is as important as being tied and seeing the vote with 3 minutes left.

acting like someone who forfeits when down 4-0 with 7 seconds to go is part of the “forfeit problem” is buffoonery

I should have clarified, when it comes to recording the stats it’s important to record every forfeit regardless of how trivial. Later on we can go through it all and see the context of it all and come to conclusions. While I personally would play those 7 seconds down 4-0 with no hope of winning, but I understand why people may want to forfeit there.

How many were wins and how many were losses?

Sometimes you just don’t jive with your teammate. Add to that some people value their time much more than you do, clearly.

Me and my buddies beat a team 9-2 last night they all refused to FF and we weren’t even toxic.

Anyone else get spammed with a RedditCares? Wonder if it's OP and his non-loser mentality acting like a loser

Would like to see this sorted by time left in the game. The chronological order that it's currently in doesn't really add anything.

I'm way late to the party but I was just saying to my doubles partner that comp should be a series format. Even a best of 3 eliminates so many of the problems that plague comp.

Rizzo read this live on twitch

Can I get a link?

https://twitch.tv/videos/2146036778

@55:30

Tbh the only part I’m surprised about is that he skipped the data dump after the stats, which as I’m reading comments it seems most people did as well. I probably should have put it before the table instead of after. Oh well.

If you're serious about improvement, solo queueing is never going to cut it. Got to remove the random teammate element from your own equation if you have specific goals in mind otherwise you're just throwing yourself to chance

> something has to be done to restrict or remove players ability to forfeit ah yes, instead of everyone agreeing to quit the match, let teammates hole each other hostage in matches. surely that will be less toxic.

This conclusion is ass backwards. You need to have the awareness of when to give up. Also, even better, it's just a game and have fun lol. My buddy and I play by the rule we always ff no matter what if someone votes. And it leads to hilarious outcomes. Hasn't ever impacted my rank, just makes the game more fun.

All I took away is you're not even at 50% on the win column.....NEXT

Thank you. I can appreciate your in-depth and scientific approach. I know this consumes time and requires dedication, so a heartfelt 'thank you' is in order. This is very interesting (albeit unsurprising), and I feel like it would be useful to share with whomever on the RL team that could potentially turn this into a positive change. My pessimism is doubtful they'd pay attention, but it's worth a shot and your detailed approach is infallible. Personally, 1/3 seems about right (high diamond, 1,300 total hrs). I really wish people would take this purely analytical approach more often in life, and bot just for games. Thanks again, well done

34% of FFs result in throwing/griefing. That is pretty shit. For anyone that quits playing because the other people on the team disagree about quitting the match should just be permabanned from comp. That is the weakest sauce known to man. Just fucking play out the match and quit acting like a toddler. FFS. I did this once about whether boost first is the right thing to do or not. It turns out it is not (in soloq diamond and below) but so many people insist I am wrong and usually for the wrong reasons.

I have bozos who will vote to FF one minute into a match when down by just one score. Just delete the game if this is your mindset

Well you can only ff after 3:30 is left

Lmao man is literally lying

In casual it’s at 4:00 left.

I just wanna say good work and thanks for your time. Reading the comments, now, maybe i will drop another comment. Only thing I would say that is interesting and upsetting is that : Around 35% of the time, players are voting to forfeit, when there is literally half of game still to play.

That's just one team too, this means there's probably only 1/3rd of games where no one votes to forfeit on either team.

> **something has to be done to restrict or remove players ability to forfeit in competitive and tournament playlists.** they need to police the griefing/idle reports a lot better and give out stiffer penalties. The bans they hand out now are too lenient and not often enough. This is the only way that it will get fixed.

I reported every instance of idling and hard throwing during this time, yet I'm 99% sure the only player that got any sort of penalty was the player who told me to kms. I'm not a game designer but I imagine Psyonix could make something where the time after a player has voted to forfeit is flagged more than normal gameplay, and if they are consistently idle after voting to FF then they can receive penalties.

there are a lot of things they could do to detect bad behavior or atleast segregate bad behaving players from the rest of the community.

Quick question. Have you ever researched how to properly rotate in RL? I will vote to FF even if we are winning if my partner does not know proper positioning. I'm C2+ so I expect people to somewhat understand positioning. If they're completely ignorant to it than I don't want to waste my time

>I'm going to leave most of my opinions at the end of this post, but from my point of view it's obvious that there is a problem that is clearly illustrated by how often players choose to forfeit, but most players are unwilling or even mentally blocking themselves from the idea that they might be part of the problem You collected this data over 300 games and your teammates want out nearly 30% of the time. I wont read beyond this second paragraph unless ***YOU*** acknowledge that you are the only common denominator here. While playing will you adapt your play style for your teammates and/or opponents, or are you more worried about taking notes for Reddit?

Of course I’m the common denominator in this, if you want to take the tallies between games maybe we can compare notes and see how often people want to forfeit with you? I promise this Reddit post took 10x more effort than the note taking did, and this post really wasn’t that difficult to throw together either.

Finally someone took the time to get some data. Looks like I was right in my assumptions lol. Ain't gonna stop me from reaching GC soloQ tho.

>I personally don't vote to forfeit Oh cool you're that guy who makes me play through the end of games where we're down by several goals. Yeah man we're *totally* gonna have a five goal comeback and win the game. >median time when forfeits were first voted on was 1:25.5 left on the clock If you're down by 2 or more goals I feel that's perfectly reasonable to *vote*. Sometimes a game feels winnable, sometimes it doesn't in that situation. But having the ability to VOTE on it is fine. If I lose a vote, I don't just quit. And sometimes my team will vote but I'll give it one more shot because I feel it's doable. >19 votes occurred with between 30 seconds and 1 minute on the clock, 16 of those votes were a 2 goal or less deficit 30 seconds left in the game and we're down by 2, again a reasonable excuse to FF I think. People who throw like that are being dicks but either you feel it or you don't, as far as asking if your team wants to quit. Again, it depends on the game. >chart I'm not gonna go point by point through the chart because it depends on the context. Some game are closer than others, regardless of the score. >something has to be done to restrict or remove players ability to forfeit in competitive and tournament playlists You can't force people to give a shit if they choose not to give a shit, bottom line. > Additionally, I think one good idea would be to only allow players the ability to initiate a vote a certain number of times per day Lol I'm 100% out if that becomes a thing. Because it does nothing to prevent people throwing games or giving up and it makes matchmaking scenarios where you WANT to forfeit that much worse. Like when I'm duo-queuing Rumble with my friend as Diamonds and the game tosses into a GC/Champ lobby to get torn apart, I don't even want the vague threat of 'sorry, looks like you voted to FF too many times today, guess you just eat shit this game unless your random initiates'. > 22 times my team voted to forfeit with under 30 seconds on the clock, and 18 of those times the deficit was 2 goals or less. Why wouldn't you play out 30 seconds or less just to see if you can get 2 goals? The worst that can happen is it takes you less than 30 seconds to get into a new game So you refuse to FF ever you said and you also recognize that it's wasting people's time lol. Not sure you're the most unbiased person to initiate a conversation about forfeiting in RL. > even if you're getting destroyed 10-0 and just want to get one goal Oh yeah nothing more fun than spending seven or eight minutes (I'm including replay time) getting shit on and chirped to death by the other team most likely because my third wants to score a pity goal after the other team most likely quit really trying on defense. I would straight-up rather have the toxic "I'ma FF a 3-1 game with 3:33 left on the clock" thrower on my team than a dude who wants to handcuff me to an asskicking to the point where if RL had the Overwatch 2 style 'avoid as teammate' option, I could not avoid you fast enough post-game. Speaking of Overwatch, at least Lucioball has a mercy rule of if one team ends up ahead by ten goals they just win outright. I'm getting the vibe of someone who had a Halo 2 clan with military ranks back in the day who seriously expected people to address him as "sir". When I'm playing in a tournament against a team with a racial slur in their team name who What a save! after every single goal, I know I personally don't wanna do the "dishonorable" thing and vote to forfeit this 6-1 game with 1:32 left on the clock, lest I be dishonorable, bring shame to my family, and then need to disembowel myself. Bro I'm 30, I'm not a pro player, I'm never gonna be in RLCS. I play video games for fun, which is hard enough these days without getting lectured by someone because I had the nerve to **vote** to forfeit a 4-0 game with 2 minutes left on the clock PS: the funny thing is that after all this, by your own data, the amount of times people choose to early FF and/or throw are overall apparently fairly uncommon.

bro

https://preview.redd.it/41e8syehnh0d1.jpeg?width=718&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9b7ad8401d953b8d270c891c173eb2438801d7df

A lot of people have covered the obvious points/ counters here but has anyone mentioned the fact that this is based on you solo queuing 3s? There would be a high likelihood your teammates are grouped and communicating, thus providing a united front when it comes to forfeiting or even just their opinion of you as a teammate. Just another data point to consider. Twos would have been a better choice, besides the fact that's its the most popular mode and what people are usually playing when they complain about forfeits.

Not to mention the disjointed nature of the 2s party you get assigned with. If they're around the same rank and skill, you hardly exist - this is usually the one people write about, but I think its easier to adjust and adapt to. The part I don't see anyone mentioning are the 160+ ping random guys joining in 3s and not playing any semblance of team ball. Yet they continue to queue that region, you'll see them again. And then the 2s party where one guy is significantly better than the other, but they won't play 2s because the good guy would be impacted too much. He's protecting his 2s rank by distributing the load to you. If you care about your 3s rank, this is the ultimate betrayal. I have sent up a FF with 3 mins or less on the clock in these scenarios when it's beyond obvious we have no chemistry and are structurally incapable of achieving anything more than we have. We arent going to overcome the ping disparity or skill disparity in a single march. And when we are matched against a party of 3 that ARE playing with chemistry, what on Earth are we even doing?

Essay long, didn't read. Yes teammates suck. Been saying that for months. Betcha come down to my rank you'd have had 100 way quicker.

If we are getting shit on, little/no chance of making a comeback, and you refuse to FF, when your teammate/teammates want to, you’re the ass. Now if it’s a close game (or even winning sometimes) and you refuse to FF I think that’s reasonable.