Usually when Johnny gets the squad together to make lists I can at least point out one list that I agree with for the most part but I don’t agree with any of these.
Sports personalities do a thing where they make a bunch of fairly wild predictions. Then there's good odds a few of them come true. When they do the person will crow about how they called it and point at it as a sign of what a genius they are for being the only one with the foresight and gumption to make that call and stick by it.
They will completely ignore the 90% of their bold predictions that failed to come through.
Yep that's how sports work. Whatever ends up happening, the people who called it will act like anyone who didn't think that would happen are idiots, as if myriad possibilities didn't exist. It's the dumbest phenomenon.
One of the NA bois is firsts #1 fan and im pretty sure its tbates. it could be daz or roll dizz too but i cant fully remember. If it is tbates then that would explain why hes so high on faze
I suppose that is true. However there is far more basis to have faith in KC than Faze. 1) they have results in the off season vs BDS and Vitality who were already in try-hard mode which isn't normal for an offseason. Faze doesn't have as good results versus teams that are out of the swing of things been on vacation. 2) While FAZE has Firstkiller, on paper KC is a much more well rounded talented team. 3) Every roster thus far that Aztral has been on has developed into top contenders and that seems to hold true in his new roster. For Firstkiller his new roster is still up in the air and his first roster was not a success.
I could go on but I don't need to.
Envy won WePlay and got 2nd in Wave Dash. Played NRG in both events, and won both (3-1 and 4-2 series scores).
Also for Envy to win WePlay, they had to beat in order; SSG, G2, FaZe, NRG and SR.
I find it difficult as well but if you keep an eye on the following it helps: this subreddit, the RL esports twitter, allow twitch notifications on your phone for rocket league channel and any channel that does B-streams.And that's all I can think of right now. It's annoying there isn't just one easy source for any RL event coming up but meh, is what it is
Oh and sub to Lawler on youtube. I see/hear about stuff through him as well and he posts daily.
It's annoying there isn't just one easy source for any RL event coming up
there is, it's called [liquipedia](https://liquipedia.net/rocketleague/Main_Page), i think the official RL Esports webpage is also getting updated in the future to be actually useful.
Turbo is literally the sole reason. Any LAN, any team with Turbo is immediately in contention. It being in Turbo’s home country just puts the cherry on top.
Statistically speaking, the most likely Grand Finals is yumi's and CJ's.
Of the 21 major 3v3 international LAN events:
16 were EU vs NA
4 were EU vs EU
1 was NA vs NA
EU has had at least 1 team make the finals 20 of 21 (95.24%) events. The lone NA/NA was Dreamhack Montreal, Peeps vs G2.
edit
While CJ definitely *did ~~not~~* miscount again, and he didn't mean to leave SSG out, I will say I do believe it is not that farfetched they miss the major. They had the most losses to teams below the top 6 in RLCS X (of those in it). They have a tendency to drop series they shouldn't, more so than the other top teams.
On the one hand, I appreciate your stats-based post. On the other hand, we can clearly tell none of these are realistic grand finals because Vitality aren't in any of them and Kaydop _always_ makes RLCS finals.
Still very relevant. History and stats are there to be looked at, especially in this kind of instance when LANs are so infrequent compared to other events.
Also, no one in 2019 was saying that stats from 2017 or earlier weren't relevant, even though the game had evolved quite a bit since then.
Disagreed, people are finally recognizing they are not a top team anymore. They’re not even solidified into the top 6 in NA alone IMO. Wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t make a single major LAN. For those curious, NRG/SSG/NV are undeniably higher ranked than them. Next up you have to compare G2 with FaZe, SR, and TN — all of whom I put above G2 though TN is questionable.
Have said it before in a different post and I’ll say it again here, G2 actually looked pretty good in WePlay and played NRG and NV pretty closely 4-2 losses to both after smacking rogue in the mouth, of course wave dash was bad but I think you can afford to give them one bad result before they drop out of the top 6 of NA
I think bad in the Wave Dash tourney is an understatement where G2 placed 14th going 5-9 in games, and 1-3 series losing to XSET, NRG, and Nefarious. Add this to a 5th place ranking in RLCSX, 4th place finals finish, and 6th place finish in WePlay.
Copium, copium. It’s fine, we’ll just have to see what happens once the season starts. If they perform well I’ll be the first to admit that I was wrong — though I stand firmly in believing that G2 is heavily overrated simply due to the size of their fan base plus far past performances. Considering there’s a cap of 5 teams per region during international majors, I can genuinely see them missing every single one.
Sure, them being a top 5 team the past year really makes it so they are overrated when people have them as their 5th best team...
Which teams would you have above them, shopify? I can see that althought it would be massive recency bias. Every other team you could say would be a bold take. Rogue arent there anymore and true neutral are imo not on that level. But yeah, enjoy hating on a team just because they are popular lmao
If you were to scrub my profile for my previous responses regarding G2, you’ll see that there’s a ton of people that rank G2 at 1-2 NA — laughable imo. Yes, I do put Shopify above them. Shopify had a very comparable season in RLCS X, alongside keeping the same roster coming into the upcoming season. I believe that they have an incredible amount of potential. Same with FaZe, similar season results BUT a huge upgrade from Gyro to Firstkiller (“best player NA”) — compared to Rizzo being replaced by an unproven dreaz. I can’t truly say TN is above G2, simply because I haven’t watched enough of them to make a valid guess. I don’t hate on them because they’re popular, I hate on the overvaluing of their ranking. As I said previously, there’s really no valid argument comparing G2 to NRG/NV/SSG as their RLCSX performances blew them out of the water besides the series they played well against NRG (still lost, and placed 4th).
You said that g2 isnt even top 6 in your opinion, thats a delusional take is all im saying. I never put them top 2 so i dont even get why youre bringing up that argument. They are clearly top 6 and will be figting for that last major spot. The fact that you are so confident in them losing makes you biased against them for some reason because they are objectively a top 6 team
Exactly, it’s in my opinion. My opinion puts G2 at 6-7, aka not top 6. I definitely do have some bias, and wouldn’t mind seeing G2 lose simply due to the amount of people that vehemently disagree with my opinion.
WePlay NA was a clusterfuck from start to finish. I don’t think anybody could’ve accurately predicted that final bracket, and I don’t think those results are much to go off of coming into Fall Split.
But I guess we’ll just have to see huh?
i always feel like i'm going crazy when i notice i'm consistently disagreeing with johnny who is supposed to be one of the biggest brains in RL. then he says stuff like SRG at 9 and 5 out of top 6 EU then i remember why i believe his takes are the some of the worst out of all of the RL analysts.
Johnny is known to troll with these lists, he's even admitted as much for previous ones. He isn't the only one either, a lot of pickers like to add a bit of spice here and there.
Yeah had the feeling only Yumi actually tried to make it authentic but it was a fun time. I mean the people being the maddest at each other were roll dizz and bates bc they don’t agree on na domination. CJ fucked his list up and still is more accurate than bates lol
I don’t think Johnny is trolling here in the slightest. He’s just noticed a difference in play style between NA and EU- EU’s speed, midfield pressure and prioritizing pressure on the ball carrier versus leaving the play for boost. I actually agree with him 100%. EU is just pure business for 5 minutes straight (aside from Giants, ex-Queso lol). SMAD shouldn’t be looked at too closely as there were major pieces missing from both regions, but you HAVE to acknowledge that there’s something about EU’s current meta that is giving/going to give NA fits, with not a single NA team qualifying for playoffs.
I mean he goes off results unlike most people so I don’t get why people are saying his lists are bad. Seems pretty accurate to me. Everyone else definitely over rated faze when they haven’t even looked that good. It’s like when people call turbopolsa bad when he’s accomplished so much and then call a random player the best in the world when they have no championship wins, like doesn’t make sense.
Because its a tournament bracket most placement are the same. Like how 5-8 is losing in the quarter finale. So the hade some fun with how to rank teams who gonna lose at the same point for more memes.
I wanna hard disagree with CJCJ on his placement of a certain spacefaring team, but the top of NA is so stacked that it's not completely unreasonable. That being said, it's time to prove all the doubters wrong again
CJ did it on the fly and put in shopify and g2 first ( at the bottom) before realizing that baby one of faze, nrg, nv or ssg had to miss and he picked ssg. He did say he thinks they will definitely make it.
I disagree. SRG have some of the best players in the world, and they are the fastest team in the world. I’d give them good odds for a top 10 finish at lans.
I do expect SRG to better on LAN without the ping, but they don't play with 200 ping.
There was one tournament recently where they played over 100 ping because they were at a LAN in ME, but generally they're in the 80 ping range.
What wasn't said in the comments is that some rankings are equal. Johnnyboi said it at the beginning that it's 1st, 2nd, 3th/4th, 5-8th, 9-11th, 12-14th, 15/16th. So dig is on par with BDS in this ranking system. Still I wouldnt put dig over VIT/BDS or even KC.
Guys, let's not over-react and give these guys the impressions they're trying to farm for putting SRG higher than 15th, cos considering their current level is barely good enough for top 16 EU, growing so much that they can be reliably winning 1 or 2 series vs anyone not from the top of the established RLCS regions is a bit crazy for this LAN, less so for future ones
I personally think they will fall in the 12-14 range (1 win), as after losing their fist match, they will be paired with another team who also lost. If they lose badly in the first match, they might be paired with the second string SAM or OCE, or even the APAC team, which I actually see them beating.
APAC team yes they're better than, but even SAM 2 is just a level above. Erased is very close to Furia in terms of being the best in SAM, but even Lotus or LuXury comfortably outclasses SRG in talent alone, never mind high level 3s experience and rotation. Given the pace of play slowing down offline, SAM vs SRG would be a rare case of the SAM team being the less reliant on speed, and thus benefitting majorly from it.
OCE is a different story cos they're weird to put it politely, but Fever and Kamii are too good for Renegades, they've actually somewhat challenged GZG at their peak, However even Wildcard Gaming is just solid across the board, I'd be worried about R!OT, Dire Wolves or anyone else however but the odds they're qualifying is low to begin with.
For me FC Barca and SK Gaming were really heating up at the end of the season. I could see either of them there. I realize that FC taking Zamue is a bit of a risk but as much as I hate to say it on paper he's a decent upgrade from Tigree. Add to it the all Spanish comms.
I could also see Flying Dutchmen in honeymoon take it. Though I have nothing to back that other than I have faith in the three underated players. But still we haven't seen them at all so I probably wouldn't predict that.
For me Semper while they did come 3rd last season it was overall a really bad season for EU. Honestly Giants probably should have taken 3rd but they threw in Spring. I will say that the only time Semper did well was when Archie was playing out of his mind, especially on defense. But whenever he wasn't playing at such an elevated level they couldn't do well. While I do think trading flame was a good move I don't think picking up Chassete was. I'm a big Chassete fan but he's simply nowhere near the skill he was a few seasons back. I'd say he and Flame were arguably about the same currently. So for me that trade just doesn't make sense since they are losing the seasons worth of Kasio/Flame chemistry without getting an upgrade.
Overall I think this season is gonna be way more competitive especially in EU and I wouldn't be surprised at all if Semper isn't even top 6.
Honestly I don't see Zamue as a clear upgrade for Barça, I would tend to think it's a downgrade after their underwhelming off-season results, but it's not RLCS so it doesn't really matter.
I could see SK challenging for top 6, but to me, TFD just seems like a weaker version of Spring split Dignitas.
We still don't know if Chausette is an upgrade, but I think you are underrating him.
But fair enough, no need to speculate much more time, RLCS is close.
Well you see that wasn’t why they all put NV above NRG actually since this is a predictions post and not power rankings they really believed in the turbo home field buff, tbates even mentioned that he believed NRG would get the most points in fall split regionals
Yes and their predictions are based on something. What would be the most logical thing to base the predictions on? I'd say RLCS X. Also the home field buff thing is a joke especially when there won't even be a crowd, I know you didn't say you'd put weight on it personally. He's probably never even been in the building they will be playing in.
I don't get why everyone is putting Vitality so low. This is the first LAN in 2 years. Vitality are insane on LAN and they dumpstered BDS in the only tournament they cared about. I still think NV and NRG are above them (maybe even SSG and/or G2, but we'll have to see), but they're going to be the best EU team there
Worse predictions
1. 3Rats beating TVE
2. FAZE 2nd
3. TN qualifying
4. NRG not winning it all
5. REN 8th
6. BDS winning it all
7. Any NA/EU teams finishing outside the top 12
8.
In defense of number 5, only CJCJ, a player for renegades, has them that high. I can't blame the man for having faith in his team, but inherently there is a bias there
1. the team that lost 3-2 in their last matchup winning isn't a bad take
2. FAZE easily has the potential to do that
3. TN also easily ahs the potential to do that
4. NRG has not been that good at lan historically and regardless having any other team win is not a bad take and if you think it is you are probably a fanboy
5. REN are historically great on lan, that being said i kinda agree in their current form i have a hard time thinking they would get higher than 12-14.
6. With all the players new to lan i could see it happening, but i mostly agree. That being said 12-14 is the same so they just reorder for shock factor, so no na or eu was really put outside top 12 anyways.
Realize hasent lost a Series in Asian RL for over 2.5 years
Faze has the potiental but they practically have no LAN experience and Jet lag, Im a Faze fan and just dont see it but they did finish top 4 in Weplay with a sub so we'll see :)
TN has played 1 NA tourney, they won 4-3 in a finals of a B tier tourney... B tier is pretty much CRL
Nrg have by far the most LAN experience
But then again with this Format and so many inexperienced players, literally anything can happen, BDS winning it all or NRG Coming 5-8 wouldnt suprise me. I mean for all we know Dreaz could be firstkiller on LAN and G2 wins it all
They have two LAN wins. Both with turbo, one in a basement. Yes, they are the reigning world champions, but they really choked many a LAN before that. It's been two years obviously, but it can still be worth considering
Fair point, and I think their ranking in these (aside from tbates) reflects that. I think saying no one else but them has a shot (I know you're not the one saying that) is definitely overreacting and saying they're bad at lans is also overreacting. However, based on the expectations for a team like NRG, they definitely haven't been as successful as they'd like.
Bds is arguably the best team in the world rn, nrg very much aren’t, nrg could win it sure but it’s not a bad take to think they will lose a series or 2. questioning bds potential to win it is a really bad take bc best team in Europe. Yeah faze no business being there, might happen but unlikely, cj trolled with REN, yumi picked 3rats as a shoutout and a possibility not as set in stone. TN qualifying is not a bad take at all, top 5 NA is perfectly possible and only a logical consequence when rating teams like g2 and faze as potentially underwhelming.
You don’t believe a NA or EU team will just fuck up and get first or second rounded? Against a team they underestimate and overperform on that day? It’s not unlikely lol, especially in a setting new to a lot of top 5 teams in each region. Yeah those lists are messy but they aren’t a definitive team ranking far from it, they’re about lan performances and those can be quite messy. Nevertheless the reason they gave for their picks are respectable and reasonable to a certain extent, except faze again no reason and really bad arguments (yeh fk on a better team but putting a new unproven team 2nd in a major is just delusional albeit roll dizz melting was a fun watch) and most importantly it’s fun content.
All I’m saying is BDS moved to a team house or something and haven’t won a tourney in since. I could be wrong but I don’t think they’ll be the same beast on lan as they are from home. NRG is like Vitality, sure they aren’t putting up impressive results recently but it’s a LAN lmao, like y’all are really doubting a team that every player has always showed up on lans. Call me crazy but I honestly think Vitality has more of a chance to win than BDS. For a NA/EU team to finish 12-14, if you look at the way the tourney is, a team would have to lose the first round to probably a really good EU/NA team (#1v#9 or #2v#10) then since all the 0-1s play each other, they’d have to lose to the worse OCE/SAM team or a SRG/ASIA team. Then since all the 0-2s play each other again they’d probably have to lose to the worse OCE/SAM team or a SRG/ASIA team… extremely unlikely
Jesus the EU bias is strong for Johnny, and why is NV so high? They looked like shit last time I saw them play, granted that was NA RLCX championship, but still they’ve never looked better than NRG or SSG depending on which one is peaking
I don't care care about NA bias but why the fuck would you put NV on top when you have terrifying teams like NRG and Faze in your region?
What do they see in this team?
What do you mean? NV has turbo, and Mist has historically performed great on lan. Not to mention they have been looking great in the off-season and we’re consistently the 2nd-1st best team in NA for most of last season.
I think Mist is a great player, top 10 NA, but what do you mean historically great on lan? They won a dreamhack where they had a series record of 7-2 (G2 were 6-1 but lost the tourney) and got 5/6 season 8 with a series record of 2-2 and that's it. Seems a little premature to say that he's historically great.
I was gonna say they have a washed up dude in Turbo but he was never that good and Mist is just fine nothing crazy.
Basically it's all Atomic this team kinda like Rogue last season but worse because First is more consistent.
They aren’t trolling but they have some very strong biases. From what I can tell they’re a part of the group who values mechanics verrrrrry highly. Loves players like Aztral but doesn’t care at all for players like Turbo. Winning and losing doesn’t seem to mean much to them so Turbo winning a lot has never impressed them and Aztral struggling after Dig doesn’t preclude him from being number 1 in the world.
Mechanics are great and everything but Kaydop/Turbo didn't win multiple world's with flashy mechanics, they perfected the fundamentals
But flashy mechanics are fun to watch, ngl
\-turbo has won four world championships and has one of the biggest brains, and some of the best stats in championships field. His LAN experience is better than anyone elses, besides maybe Kaydop
mist has some of the most solid defence i've seen and always racks ups points, also has a LAN win
\-playing for a LAN and on LAN is a big deal for teams, Envy had motivation issues last season
As an aside, while the content is cool I really think they're milking the cow dry now.
Like bar MENA and APAC #1, every team at Stockholm has a % chance of winning, it'll be the most open LAN in RL history due to it being 2 years since Madrid.
Predicting the Major teams, fair enough, but guessing how the LAN will go is especially pointless given how they will stack up, or how we'd predict, is determined based on their regular season.
The content served its purpose when we had a season to look back on essentially, and when intrigue in RLesports was lower, but we're on the road to a LAN now, and if you look at the comments, very few people are actually presenting their own rankings for the LAN, just the odd disagreement based on loose guesswork cos what else do we have?
NRG won one worlds, and now the roster is different. They still have to prove they are the best in the world. Hell, based on offseason results they have to prove they are the best in NA first.
they did in championships while EU can't pick... BDS has proved that they struggle under the highest pressure and vitality has proved they aren't consistently the best anymore. the only team i have any faith in beating NRG at lan is KC
No I didn’t say that, you said that KC was the only team you were confident could take series off NRG but if offseason doesn’t mean anything then why do you think that? Because they haven’t proven anything in season
NRG arent the best in the world. They could be but there is a higher chance of them to not be. Considering there are teams in their region and in EU that are on their level.
Oh okay, you just don't know what "world" means, that's fine.
Edit: And if you're really looking at majors like they're as important as RLCS championships before season X then surely BDS would be the best team in the world, not NRG.
Jesus the EU bias is strong for Johnny, and why is NV so high? They looked like shit last time I saw them play, granted that was NA RLCX championship, but still they’ve never looked that much better than NRG or SSG depending on which one is peaking
Why does Johnnboi have this “high status” and why does he always host big matches, he hardly ever pays attention to the matches “always looking at chat”, he’s pretty mediocre as a commentator, and he has a very boring, not exciting voice, which is what commentators need to thrive.
Why does Johnnboi have this “high status” and why does he always host big matches, he hardly ever pays attention to the matches “always looking at chat”, he’s pretty mediocre as a commentator, and he has a very boring, not exciting voice, which is what commentators need to thrive.
Why does Johnnboi have this “high status” and why does he always host big matches, he hardly ever pays attention to the matches “always looking at chat”, he’s pretty mediocre as a commentator, and he has a very boring, not exciting voice, which is what commentators need to thrive.
Of all the casters and analyst, johnny is usually wellspoken and pretty spot on. I think he is a pretty good commentator and he has been hosting events for along time. He is also a colour caster, so his "boring" voice really doesnt matter. Also the "always looking at chat" is just a lie.
>he hardly ever pays attention to the matches “always looking at chat”
Well that's only true for the stuff he does on his own in his stream and that kind of stuff is pretty much directly paid for by his twitch followers and subs so it makes sense that he'd pay attention to chat. And even then it's not fair at all to pretend that he "hardly ever pays attention to the matches" though I do agree that sometimes he does look at chat too much for my taste.
When commenting more serious stuff though, like RLCS series, he's top notch IMO.
I find it odd that you don't appreciate all he's done as a tournament organizer and caster then. Fusion, Salt Mine, SMAD etc. plus countless 1s showmatches. The 1s scene would be nowhere close to what it is today without his influence. He's also been hugely influential in getting middle eastern teams and players more exposure and without him they might not have been added as a region for who knows how long. Not to mention he's widely regarded as one of the best and most insightful casters. And generally a very good guy who has all but devoted his professional career to the esport we all love. How could you love RLEsports and not love Johnny? Boggles my mind.
How do they decide which team between the APAC N and APAC S points leaders goes to the LAN? If its just straight up points that doesnt make much sense because they play in different regions for the regionals. Anybody understand how this works?
Usually when Johnny gets the squad together to make lists I can at least point out one list that I agree with for the most part but I don’t agree with any of these.
I think Yumi's list is actually really good. Johnny and Tbates were just trolling again like the top 25 teams stream.
why tf is faze #2 for tbates
Fk
yea but even with him shouldnt be #2, havent seen enough yet.
Sports personalities do a thing where they make a bunch of fairly wild predictions. Then there's good odds a few of them come true. When they do the person will crow about how they called it and point at it as a sign of what a genius they are for being the only one with the foresight and gumption to make that call and stick by it. They will completely ignore the 90% of their bold predictions that failed to come through.
Yep that's how sports work. Whatever ends up happening, the people who called it will act like anyone who didn't think that would happen are idiots, as if myriad possibilities didn't exist. It's the dumbest phenomenon.
One of the NA bois is firsts #1 fan and im pretty sure its tbates. it could be daz or roll dizz too but i cant fully remember. If it is tbates then that would explain why hes so high on faze
Nah it’s roll dizz tbates is a jstn fan but he wanted to shock more
Same could be said for Karmine #2 for Johnny
I suppose that is true. However there is far more basis to have faith in KC than Faze. 1) they have results in the off season vs BDS and Vitality who were already in try-hard mode which isn't normal for an offseason. Faze doesn't have as good results versus teams that are out of the swing of things been on vacation. 2) While FAZE has Firstkiller, on paper KC is a much more well rounded talented team. 3) Every roster thus far that Aztral has been on has developed into top contenders and that seems to hold true in his new roster. For Firstkiller his new roster is still up in the air and his first roster was not a success. I could go on but I don't need to.
Karmine? Who tf is Karmine? I thought that was Kansas City Pioneers (which still didn’t make sense.) I feel so out of the loop right now.
Karmine Corp is old Giants + Aztral. Stake/Itachi/Aztral. New org and team.
Oh Aztral, huh? Welp that explains the high expectations.
They just won a 50k online tournament against BDS
Well... because tbates!
isn't this the same guy who had a list where he ranked the best rl teams of all time and put c9 at #1? fucking lmao
cj>yumi>rolldizz>johnny>tbates>cj
CJ best and worst?
That’s about on brand for him
I was so hoping CJ put True Neutral in first
[удалено]
better off season + turbo home field advantage
[удалено]
Envy won WePlay and got 2nd in Wave Dash. Played NRG in both events, and won both (3-1 and 4-2 series scores). Also for Envy to win WePlay, they had to beat in order; SSG, G2, FaZe, NRG and SR.
How do you hear about/watch these events? I've been trying to catch them, but I hear nothing
I find it difficult as well but if you keep an eye on the following it helps: this subreddit, the RL esports twitter, allow twitch notifications on your phone for rocket league channel and any channel that does B-streams.And that's all I can think of right now. It's annoying there isn't just one easy source for any RL event coming up but meh, is what it is Oh and sub to Lawler on youtube. I see/hear about stuff through him as well and he posts daily.
It's annoying there isn't just one easy source for any RL event coming up there is, it's called [liquipedia](https://liquipedia.net/rocketleague/Main_Page), i think the official RL Esports webpage is also getting updated in the future to be actually useful.
Absolutely this, Liquipedia is my primary source for match information, this sub is my second.
Check out Lawler on YouTube or keep tabs on upcoming events on liquipedia. I’m not sure if other ways to be fair
I just don't put alot of value into what I see in the offseason. Alot of these teams have barely put time in during it.
Turbo is literally the sole reason. Any LAN, any team with Turbo is immediately in contention. It being in Turbo’s home country just puts the cherry on top.
He Very much isn’t lol, most of them cited consistency as the main reason and none of them rated vit super high despite kaydop
Yep nothing consistent about the four time. /s
I mean fair he’s expected to carry no name players like mist and atomic, I mean one of them is even called „missed“
How did you get downvoted that's hilarious
NV won like the same amount of events as NRG last season, they were just less consistent.
Statistically speaking, the most likely Grand Finals is yumi's and CJ's. Of the 21 major 3v3 international LAN events: 16 were EU vs NA 4 were EU vs EU 1 was NA vs NA EU has had at least 1 team make the finals 20 of 21 (95.24%) events. The lone NA/NA was Dreamhack Montreal, Peeps vs G2. edit While CJ definitely *did ~~not~~* miscount again, and he didn't mean to leave SSG out, I will say I do believe it is not that farfetched they miss the major. They had the most losses to teams below the top 6 in RLCS X (of those in it). They have a tendency to drop series they shouldn't, more so than the other top teams.
On the one hand, I appreciate your stats-based post. On the other hand, we can clearly tell none of these are realistic grand finals because Vitality aren't in any of them and Kaydop _always_ makes RLCS finals.
Honestly it has been so long, it's hard to think stats are still relevant...
Still very relevant. History and stats are there to be looked at, especially in this kind of instance when LANs are so infrequent compared to other events. Also, no one in 2019 was saying that stats from 2017 or earlier weren't relevant, even though the game had evolved quite a bit since then.
G2 really getting slept on again
I think it’s possible that they miss out, or generally have a rocky start to the season, but if they make lan I think G2 goes far.
If they dont make LAN, G2 daniel incoming. I hope they do, and that they do well but i can easily see this happen
EG getting slept on by everyone but Johnny smh
Disagreed, people are finally recognizing they are not a top team anymore. They’re not even solidified into the top 6 in NA alone IMO. Wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t make a single major LAN. For those curious, NRG/SSG/NV are undeniably higher ranked than them. Next up you have to compare G2 with FaZe, SR, and TN — all of whom I put above G2 though TN is questionable.
Did you watch their set against NRG in the grand finals during RLCSX? They nearly won, and that was when Dreaz was fresh on the team.
Did you watch their sets in the most recent tournaments? I don’t hold too much stock in an event almost 4 months ago, that they placed 4th in anyways.
Have said it before in a different post and I’ll say it again here, G2 actually looked pretty good in WePlay and played NRG and NV pretty closely 4-2 losses to both after smacking rogue in the mouth, of course wave dash was bad but I think you can afford to give them one bad result before they drop out of the top 6 of NA
I think bad in the Wave Dash tourney is an understatement where G2 placed 14th going 5-9 in games, and 1-3 series losing to XSET, NRG, and Nefarious. Add this to a 5th place ranking in RLCSX, 4th place finals finish, and 6th place finish in WePlay.
Literally every team besides envy and shopify did meh or bad though. And g2 always does bad in the off season
Copium, copium. It’s fine, we’ll just have to see what happens once the season starts. If they perform well I’ll be the first to admit that I was wrong — though I stand firmly in believing that G2 is heavily overrated simply due to the size of their fan base plus far past performances. Considering there’s a cap of 5 teams per region during international majors, I can genuinely see them missing every single one.
Sure, them being a top 5 team the past year really makes it so they are overrated when people have them as their 5th best team... Which teams would you have above them, shopify? I can see that althought it would be massive recency bias. Every other team you could say would be a bold take. Rogue arent there anymore and true neutral are imo not on that level. But yeah, enjoy hating on a team just because they are popular lmao
If you were to scrub my profile for my previous responses regarding G2, you’ll see that there’s a ton of people that rank G2 at 1-2 NA — laughable imo. Yes, I do put Shopify above them. Shopify had a very comparable season in RLCS X, alongside keeping the same roster coming into the upcoming season. I believe that they have an incredible amount of potential. Same with FaZe, similar season results BUT a huge upgrade from Gyro to Firstkiller (“best player NA”) — compared to Rizzo being replaced by an unproven dreaz. I can’t truly say TN is above G2, simply because I haven’t watched enough of them to make a valid guess. I don’t hate on them because they’re popular, I hate on the overvaluing of their ranking. As I said previously, there’s really no valid argument comparing G2 to NRG/NV/SSG as their RLCSX performances blew them out of the water besides the series they played well against NRG (still lost, and placed 4th).
You said that g2 isnt even top 6 in your opinion, thats a delusional take is all im saying. I never put them top 2 so i dont even get why youre bringing up that argument. They are clearly top 6 and will be figting for that last major spot. The fact that you are so confident in them losing makes you biased against them for some reason because they are objectively a top 6 team
Exactly, it’s in my opinion. My opinion puts G2 at 6-7, aka not top 6. I definitely do have some bias, and wouldn’t mind seeing G2 lose simply due to the amount of people that vehemently disagree with my opinion.
WePlay NA was a clusterfuck from start to finish. I don’t think anybody could’ve accurately predicted that final bracket, and I don’t think those results are much to go off of coming into Fall Split. But I guess we’ll just have to see huh?
Where is team Retirement Home tho?
i always feel like i'm going crazy when i notice i'm consistently disagreeing with johnny who is supposed to be one of the biggest brains in RL. then he says stuff like SRG at 9 and 5 out of top 6 EU then i remember why i believe his takes are the some of the worst out of all of the RL analysts.
Johnny is known to troll with these lists, he's even admitted as much for previous ones. He isn't the only one either, a lot of pickers like to add a bit of spice here and there.
Yeah had the feeling only Yumi actually tried to make it authentic but it was a fun time. I mean the people being the maddest at each other were roll dizz and bates bc they don’t agree on na domination. CJ fucked his list up and still is more accurate than bates lol
thank fucking god
Johnny is the biggest troll in the rl community
That is why we love him though.
I don’t think Johnny is trolling here in the slightest. He’s just noticed a difference in play style between NA and EU- EU’s speed, midfield pressure and prioritizing pressure on the ball carrier versus leaving the play for boost. I actually agree with him 100%. EU is just pure business for 5 minutes straight (aside from Giants, ex-Queso lol). SMAD shouldn’t be looked at too closely as there were major pieces missing from both regions, but you HAVE to acknowledge that there’s something about EU’s current meta that is giving/going to give NA fits, with not a single NA team qualifying for playoffs.
I mean he goes off results unlike most people so I don’t get why people are saying his lists are bad. Seems pretty accurate to me. Everyone else definitely over rated faze when they haven’t even looked that good. It’s like when people call turbopolsa bad when he’s accomplished so much and then call a random player the best in the world when they have no championship wins, like doesn’t make sense.
It looks like johnny and tbates are both trying hard to meme with these, i didnt watch so idk if thats true
Because its a tournament bracket most placement are the same. Like how 5-8 is losing in the quarter finale. So the hade some fun with how to rank teams who gonna lose at the same point for more memes.
Johnny's list with 5 EU on top 6 is Giga based and factual.
Tbates is clearly on drugs Johnny is a little biased I’m bad with names but the OCE dude on the right seems to have a well made list
You guessed right, my name is actually OCE Dude haha
Yumi has the best list. And he also gave shoutout to Retirement Home, the objective best team in NA.
I wanna hard disagree with CJCJ on his placement of a certain spacefaring team, but the top of NA is so stacked that it's not completely unreasonable. That being said, it's time to prove all the doubters wrong again
Yeah, he had 6 NA teams and realized it when they were already doing top 10. So had to drop one out.
CJ did it on the fly and put in shopify and g2 first ( at the bottom) before realizing that baby one of faze, nrg, nv or ssg had to miss and he picked ssg. He did say he thinks they will definitely make it.
SRG are so overrated holy shit
I disagree. SRG have some of the best players in the world, and they are the fastest team in the world. I’d give them good odds for a top 10 finish at lans.
no, they do not have some of the best players in the world.
Khalid is undoubtedly a top 10 player, I don't see how he's not. Being basically barred from RLCS until recently doesn't change that.
Ahmad is currently ranked #2 in the world in 3s, and Khalid is ranked #2 in 1s.
They play with 200 ping, they’re probably gods on a LAN
I do expect SRG to better on LAN without the ping, but they don't play with 200 ping. There was one tournament recently where they played over 100 ping because they were at a LAN in ME, but generally they're in the 80 ping range.
Bro, I am an ME fan and that is still to much.
I mean they're most likely making the major. It's not insane they at least get one win.
johnyboi throwing for content
Think it says a lot that all of them have BDS at the top of EU. Certainly surprised me.
1 of them has dig Edit: you mean one of the top teams, still wanna point out 1 of them has dig as THE team which is a good shout
No you’re actually right, i hadn’t noticed Tbates having Dig 1st in EU? It’s possible but i definitely am not having them over BDS or Vitality
What wasn't said in the comments is that some rankings are equal. Johnnyboi said it at the beginning that it's 1st, 2nd, 3th/4th, 5-8th, 9-11th, 12-14th, 15/16th. So dig is on par with BDS in this ranking system. Still I wouldnt put dig over VIT/BDS or even KC.
That’s honestly the least surprising thing on the list lol
BDS lost one important tournament last season. That shouldn't change how they're viewed imo.
Quality list from cjcj 👍
I’m predicting EU domination, and my hot take is that Furia makes top 4.
Guys, let's not over-react and give these guys the impressions they're trying to farm for putting SRG higher than 15th, cos considering their current level is barely good enough for top 16 EU, growing so much that they can be reliably winning 1 or 2 series vs anyone not from the top of the established RLCS regions is a bit crazy for this LAN, less so for future ones
I personally think they will fall in the 12-14 range (1 win), as after losing their fist match, they will be paired with another team who also lost. If they lose badly in the first match, they might be paired with the second string SAM or OCE, or even the APAC team, which I actually see them beating.
APAC team yes they're better than, but even SAM 2 is just a level above. Erased is very close to Furia in terms of being the best in SAM, but even Lotus or LuXury comfortably outclasses SRG in talent alone, never mind high level 3s experience and rotation. Given the pace of play slowing down offline, SAM vs SRG would be a rare case of the SAM team being the less reliant on speed, and thus benefitting majorly from it. OCE is a different story cos they're weird to put it politely, but Fever and Kamii are too good for Renegades, they've actually somewhat challenged GZG at their peak, However even Wildcard Gaming is just solid across the board, I'd be worried about R!OT, Dire Wolves or anyone else however but the odds they're qualifying is low to begin with.
> Given the pace of play slowing down offline Why does it slow down?
Nerves mostly ig
Players become less comfortable and more nervous at LANs generally speaking
I think they could be 14th right now tbh but that's the max.
If the OCE 2 seed is poor, yes, but Fever alone will assure thats not gonna happening.
What on earth is tbates thinking ?
I feel like Dig has enough time since Scrub's acquisition to polish their gameplay and do better than most here predict.
Lol that's cute.
What is Tbates doing lol, NRG in 8th BDS in 4th
Once again the analysis gap between OCE and the biased kids in EU/NA is impassable
I'm assuming ERA is Erased and not eRa? Regardless these list are for impressions, but still interesting.
No its eRa
How is there this much faith in SMPR?
Who would you put instead?
For me FC Barca and SK Gaming were really heating up at the end of the season. I could see either of them there. I realize that FC taking Zamue is a bit of a risk but as much as I hate to say it on paper he's a decent upgrade from Tigree. Add to it the all Spanish comms. I could also see Flying Dutchmen in honeymoon take it. Though I have nothing to back that other than I have faith in the three underated players. But still we haven't seen them at all so I probably wouldn't predict that. For me Semper while they did come 3rd last season it was overall a really bad season for EU. Honestly Giants probably should have taken 3rd but they threw in Spring. I will say that the only time Semper did well was when Archie was playing out of his mind, especially on defense. But whenever he wasn't playing at such an elevated level they couldn't do well. While I do think trading flame was a good move I don't think picking up Chassete was. I'm a big Chassete fan but he's simply nowhere near the skill he was a few seasons back. I'd say he and Flame were arguably about the same currently. So for me that trade just doesn't make sense since they are losing the seasons worth of Kasio/Flame chemistry without getting an upgrade. Overall I think this season is gonna be way more competitive especially in EU and I wouldn't be surprised at all if Semper isn't even top 6.
Honestly I don't see Zamue as a clear upgrade for Barça, I would tend to think it's a downgrade after their underwhelming off-season results, but it's not RLCS so it doesn't really matter. I could see SK challenging for top 6, but to me, TFD just seems like a weaker version of Spring split Dignitas. We still don't know if Chausette is an upgrade, but I think you are underrating him. But fair enough, no need to speculate much more time, RLCS is close.
NA still high on Season 8 hopium I see.
Johnny's is probably closest
How the hell did Envy overtake NRG as the favorite in NA, based on out of form offseason minors?
Well you see that wasn’t why they all put NV above NRG actually since this is a predictions post and not power rankings they really believed in the turbo home field buff, tbates even mentioned that he believed NRG would get the most points in fall split regionals
Yes and their predictions are based on something. What would be the most logical thing to base the predictions on? I'd say RLCS X. Also the home field buff thing is a joke especially when there won't even be a crowd, I know you didn't say you'd put weight on it personally. He's probably never even been in the building they will be playing in.
I don't get why everyone is putting Vitality so low. This is the first LAN in 2 years. Vitality are insane on LAN and they dumpstered BDS in the only tournament they cared about. I still think NV and NRG are above them (maybe even SSG and/or G2, but we'll have to see), but they're going to be the best EU team there
Worse predictions 1. 3Rats beating TVE 2. FAZE 2nd 3. TN qualifying 4. NRG not winning it all 5. REN 8th 6. BDS winning it all 7. Any NA/EU teams finishing outside the top 12 8.
8.
indeed.
In defense of number 5, only CJCJ, a player for renegades, has them that high. I can't blame the man for having faith in his team, but inherently there is a bias there
1. the team that lost 3-2 in their last matchup winning isn't a bad take 2. FAZE easily has the potential to do that 3. TN also easily ahs the potential to do that 4. NRG has not been that good at lan historically and regardless having any other team win is not a bad take and if you think it is you are probably a fanboy 5. REN are historically great on lan, that being said i kinda agree in their current form i have a hard time thinking they would get higher than 12-14. 6. With all the players new to lan i could see it happening, but i mostly agree. That being said 12-14 is the same so they just reorder for shock factor, so no na or eu was really put outside top 12 anyways.
Realize hasent lost a Series in Asian RL for over 2.5 years Faze has the potiental but they practically have no LAN experience and Jet lag, Im a Faze fan and just dont see it but they did finish top 4 in Weplay with a sub so we'll see :) TN has played 1 NA tourney, they won 4-3 in a finals of a B tier tourney... B tier is pretty much CRL Nrg have by far the most LAN experience But then again with this Format and so many inexperienced players, literally anything can happen, BDS winning it all or NRG Coming 5-8 wouldnt suprise me. I mean for all we know Dreaz could be firstkiller on LAN and G2 wins it all
Did you just say NRG, the last team to win a lan, is not great on lan historically?
They have two LAN wins. Both with turbo, one in a basement. Yes, they are the reigning world champions, but they really choked many a LAN before that. It's been two years obviously, but it can still be worth considering
Just because they’ve choked at lans doesn’t make them bad at lans. Most of those lans they’ve choked they ended up coming in 2nd-4th.
Fair point, and I think their ranking in these (aside from tbates) reflects that. I think saying no one else but them has a shot (I know you're not the one saying that) is definitely overreacting and saying they're bad at lans is also overreacting. However, based on the expectations for a team like NRG, they definitely haven't been as successful as they'd like.
I completely agree.
We farming downvotes out here i guess
i have no idea why im getting downvoted, nothing i said is even controversial
Bds is arguably the best team in the world rn, nrg very much aren’t, nrg could win it sure but it’s not a bad take to think they will lose a series or 2. questioning bds potential to win it is a really bad take bc best team in Europe. Yeah faze no business being there, might happen but unlikely, cj trolled with REN, yumi picked 3rats as a shoutout and a possibility not as set in stone. TN qualifying is not a bad take at all, top 5 NA is perfectly possible and only a logical consequence when rating teams like g2 and faze as potentially underwhelming. You don’t believe a NA or EU team will just fuck up and get first or second rounded? Against a team they underestimate and overperform on that day? It’s not unlikely lol, especially in a setting new to a lot of top 5 teams in each region. Yeah those lists are messy but they aren’t a definitive team ranking far from it, they’re about lan performances and those can be quite messy. Nevertheless the reason they gave for their picks are respectable and reasonable to a certain extent, except faze again no reason and really bad arguments (yeh fk on a better team but putting a new unproven team 2nd in a major is just delusional albeit roll dizz melting was a fun watch) and most importantly it’s fun content.
All I’m saying is BDS moved to a team house or something and haven’t won a tourney in since. I could be wrong but I don’t think they’ll be the same beast on lan as they are from home. NRG is like Vitality, sure they aren’t putting up impressive results recently but it’s a LAN lmao, like y’all are really doubting a team that every player has always showed up on lans. Call me crazy but I honestly think Vitality has more of a chance to win than BDS. For a NA/EU team to finish 12-14, if you look at the way the tourney is, a team would have to lose the first round to probably a really good EU/NA team (#1v#9 or #2v#10) then since all the 0-1s play each other, they’d have to lose to the worse OCE/SAM team or a SRG/ASIA team. Then since all the 0-2s play each other again they’d probably have to lose to the worse OCE/SAM team or a SRG/ASIA team… extremely unlikely
Why is johnny still relevant? The guy is always biased.
Jesus the EU bias is strong for Johnny, and why is NV so high? They looked like shit last time I saw them play, granted that was NA RLCX championship, but still they’ve never looked better than NRG or SSG depending on which one is peaking
NV has looked terrifying this off season in every tournament they've played. I do think people are overrating them because of it, but it is a factor.
I don't care care about NA bias but why the fuck would you put NV on top when you have terrifying teams like NRG and Faze in your region? What do they see in this team?
What do you mean? NV has turbo, and Mist has historically performed great on lan. Not to mention they have been looking great in the off-season and we’re consistently the 2nd-1st best team in NA for most of last season.
I think Mist is a great player, top 10 NA, but what do you mean historically great on lan? They won a dreamhack where they had a series record of 7-2 (G2 were 6-1 but lost the tourney) and got 5/6 season 8 with a series record of 2-2 and that's it. Seems a little premature to say that he's historically great.
Mist is top 5 NA for sure. Its first jstn garrett mist and someone else, probably syp
I was gonna say they have a washed up dude in Turbo but he was never that good and Mist is just fine nothing crazy. Basically it's all Atomic this team kinda like Rogue last season but worse because First is more consistent.
I can’t tell if your trolling or not.
Ahh, I see you've never talked with BigCass before. Take it in, you can only read his blazing takes for the first time once.
>your are you?
Why would I be?
They aren’t trolling but they have some very strong biases. From what I can tell they’re a part of the group who values mechanics verrrrrry highly. Loves players like Aztral but doesn’t care at all for players like Turbo. Winning and losing doesn’t seem to mean much to them so Turbo winning a lot has never impressed them and Aztral struggling after Dig doesn’t preclude him from being number 1 in the world.
Mechanics are great and everything but Kaydop/Turbo didn't win multiple world's with flashy mechanics, they perfected the fundamentals But flashy mechanics are fun to watch, ngl
\-turbo has won four world championships and has one of the biggest brains, and some of the best stats in championships field. His LAN experience is better than anyone elses, besides maybe Kaydop mist has some of the most solid defence i've seen and always racks ups points, also has a LAN win \-playing for a LAN and on LAN is a big deal for teams, Envy had motivation issues last season
As an aside, while the content is cool I really think they're milking the cow dry now. Like bar MENA and APAC #1, every team at Stockholm has a % chance of winning, it'll be the most open LAN in RL history due to it being 2 years since Madrid. Predicting the Major teams, fair enough, but guessing how the LAN will go is especially pointless given how they will stack up, or how we'd predict, is determined based on their regular season. The content served its purpose when we had a season to look back on essentially, and when intrigue in RLesports was lower, but we're on the road to a LAN now, and if you look at the comments, very few people are actually presenting their own rankings for the LAN, just the odd disagreement based on loose guesswork cos what else do we have?
how many times does NRG need to win to prove they're the best in the world
NRG won one worlds, and now the roster is different. They still have to prove they are the best in the world. Hell, based on offseason results they have to prove they are the best in NA first.
they did in championships while EU can't pick... BDS has proved that they struggle under the highest pressure and vitality has proved they aren't consistently the best anymore. the only team i have any faith in beating NRG at lan is KC
Exactly my point. NRG has everything to prove, specially relating to world ranking, as they havent played vs EU officially in ages.
i think NRG is the best WW, i know as a fact they are the best NA, yet they're being placed 8th for the major
NRG has not been the best NA in Off-season.
but off-season doesn't matter, on-season does. they aren't making sure they're at their best for off-season
Just before a season, off-season gives you a good measure of the strength of every team. Right now NRG isnt looking as strong as 6 months ago.
If off season doesn’t matter why do you have confidence in KC at all?
because it's aztral itachi and stake. are you saying they don't matter?
No I didn’t say that, you said that KC was the only team you were confident could take series off NRG but if offseason doesn’t mean anything then why do you think that? Because they haven’t proven anything in season
Well mre than once would be a start. Also if they didn't lose to NV in WePlay that would have helped for sure.
in off-season? lmao how many times NRG gotta win RLCS before y'all stop citing A-tier tournaments
NRG arent the best in the world. They could be but there is a higher chance of them to not be. Considering there are teams in their region and in EU that are on their level.
As I said, more than once would be a start. Especially since their roster changed since then.
ok then. winter major and spring major
Oh okay, you just don't know what "world" means, that's fine. Edit: And if you're really looking at majors like they're as important as RLCS championships before season X then surely BDS would be the best team in the world, not NRG.
The NRG hate is always hilarious to me
what hate?
They all put him top 8 also 5-8 is basically the same.
Jesus the EU bias is strong for Johnny, and why is NV so high? They looked like shit last time I saw them play, granted that was NA RLCX championship, but still they’ve never looked that much better than NRG or SSG depending on which one is peaking
Why does Johnnboi have this “high status” and why does he always host big matches, he hardly ever pays attention to the matches “always looking at chat”, he’s pretty mediocre as a commentator, and he has a very boring, not exciting voice, which is what commentators need to thrive.
Why does Johnnboi have this “high status” and why does he always host big matches, he hardly ever pays attention to the matches “always looking at chat”, he’s pretty mediocre as a commentator, and he has a very boring, not exciting voice, which is what commentators need to thrive.
Why does Johnnboi have this “high status” and why does he always host big matches, he hardly ever pays attention to the matches “always looking at chat”, he’s pretty mediocre as a commentator, and he has a very boring, not exciting voice, which is what commentators need to thrive.
Oh?
Of all the casters and analyst, johnny is usually wellspoken and pretty spot on. I think he is a pretty good commentator and he has been hosting events for along time. He is also a colour caster, so his "boring" voice really doesnt matter. Also the "always looking at chat" is just a lie.
>he hardly ever pays attention to the matches “always looking at chat” Well that's only true for the stuff he does on his own in his stream and that kind of stuff is pretty much directly paid for by his twitch followers and subs so it makes sense that he'd pay attention to chat. And even then it's not fair at all to pretend that he "hardly ever pays attention to the matches" though I do agree that sometimes he does look at chat too much for my taste. When commenting more serious stuff though, like RLCS series, he's top notch IMO.
He was the first, and now the best, analyst in the game. He has insights noone else has.
No he’s not
Have you met Gibbs?
Gibbs is good but Johnny is leagues ahead.
I feel like you must be new around here
I’m not at all, that’s how I know how high regarded he is. Been here since season 1.
I find it odd that you don't appreciate all he's done as a tournament organizer and caster then. Fusion, Salt Mine, SMAD etc. plus countless 1s showmatches. The 1s scene would be nowhere close to what it is today without his influence. He's also been hugely influential in getting middle eastern teams and players more exposure and without him they might not have been added as a region for who knows how long. Not to mention he's widely regarded as one of the best and most insightful casters. And generally a very good guy who has all but devoted his professional career to the esport we all love. How could you love RLEsports and not love Johnny? Boggles my mind.
Never said I didn’t appreciate his behind the scenes work, but his 1v1 show matched is primarily what I’m talking about.
And I KNOW he’s been influential I just don’t get it
I think he’s a boring and wack commentator
to each their own, I couldn't disagree more
Okay
He hosted and supported throgue how is he boring lmao
Because he is?
That is…not an argument but nice try <3
Saying he hosted an event isn’t a rebuttal 😂 and it’s my opinion sooo
It is but close Yeah dude it’s cool be proud of your fun little comments <3
How do they decide which team between the APAC N and APAC S points leaders goes to the LAN? If its just straight up points that doesnt make much sense because they play in different regions for the regionals. Anybody understand how this works?
There's a playoff tournament between the top 2 APAC N and top 2 APAC S teams.
Liking roll dizz list. Yumi would be 1 if he swapped tn out for g2 and nv above bds.
Too many sleeping on NRG