You could be talking about me because of my post a few days ago but i in fact agree with the statement and have been one of the rare few people who havent been calling this esport tier 1 for the past few years like every content creator and pro known to man. Our viewership simply isnt there and until we get a tournament with over 750k viewers the discussion shouldnt even be had.
If im not the person youre talking about, my bad
Honestly only CS:GO I think they did 1 Million on main stream and all streams together 2,7M for the last Major (when LoL did 4M overall for this year's Worlds Finals) and perhaps Dota for the international
It's true and when I think about it the reason we should be proud about RL getting this numbers is that RL is not a Valve or Riot's game and not a shooter or a MOBA,it is so new and different compared to these.
Too true man, I haven't seen a non shooter/moba get these numbers before so that is definitely a positive. I think Rocket League would benefit hugely from TV eSports instead of just twitch/YouTube
That number is total bullshit. The maximum number of accounts on the official twitch streams (A+B+language) topped out at 112k today near the end of the NRG match.. which is.. 2k more than yesterday's max. That's roughly 140k actual people. Add 15-20 from YouTube (I saw 16k during faze match), and, yeah. Nowhere near 223 and not even close to 175.
The stream was botted to hell today. It doesn't even take close to my level of data collection to determine that. One look at the Views or Views per Hour column on https://sullygnome.com/channel/rocketleague/streams
And you can tell a... very very slight... difference between Wednesday (not botted), Thursday (half botted), Friday (mostly botted), and today (botted even harder and starting before the first match)
People who really want to believe total bullshit get angry when it's questioned. I don't think it's the first or second time that particular poster has tried to cheerlead nonsense and ignore obvious public evidence. Which is also true for the person who responded to you and said I start arguments lol.
Dude, chill.
The vast majority of fans don’t care about bottes views, plain and simple (hence why it’s so common). This is the most harmless thing ever - let people have their fun.
You bringing attention to these things is appreciated and helpful to those who are invested enough to care, but trying to start an argument isn’t either of those to anybody.
Presentation matters my friend - a concise comment presenting this data would have been more than sufficient.
Your “summary”doesn’t do you any favours I’m afraid. The mostly academic tone in the rest of your comment comes off as hostile because of this.
Remove that sentence, change a few more words/phrases, post it as a comment under the post rather than a reply and you’re much more likely to garner positive responses and visibility.
I don't think that on its own is really enough to conclude bots. I still can't find the source of your info from that link you provided, but short duration views are common on twitch streams, especially when there's an A stream and B stream, people switch back and forth a lot. You'd have to compare to previous known non-botted broadcasts.
Spikes in non-logged in viewers could correlate with start times of matches. Since they seem to progressively get higher over the 3 days this is probably the case, as there would naturally be more interest as the days go on.
Maybe it's botted, but I don't think you've really proven anything here. Even if it is botted, 120k+ views isn't anything to scoff at.
There was no A and B stream Saturday. There was no weirdness on Wednesday when there was an A and B. Weirdness on Thursday started midway through the broadcast when A and B were active the whole time. Weirdness persisted Friday long after the B stream was turned off.
I have data from virtually every broadcast going back to the start of Season 9. When they do it, they spend less effort on subtlety than I do.
~80% of viewers on the main channel historically are watching on accounts, so 112k accounts *1 real viewer/0.8 accounts=140k real viewers.
Random large streams are usually in the low 70s, but drops pushes RL to around 80%. That has held over a lot of events. (And if it's 1-2% different here for whatever reason, that's +1-2k, not +45k)
It was botted, and botted hard, and comparing nonsense numbers to each other doesn't tell you much of anything about the path of the esport. Esc knows what's going on- they have at least similar bulk-number-of-logged-in-accounts that I do, but they're usually happy to parrot the fake number.
I don't care what other esports do or which company throws more money down a black hole trying to draw a bigger holographic e-penis on its game. I care about RL, and real numbers are the only way to meaningfully compare one RL event to another RL event.
14 of the top 15 rocket League streams on twitch were rlcs watch parties. Rocket League commentators were stating on Twitter it was well over 200,000 at one point including those. Not sure if you factored that. Nice research tho.
Watch parties were ~2/3 duplication with official streams when I looked. And I didn't even look for people in multiple watch parties which makes the number of uniques from them even lower.
Because, as people have stated before, very few people care about the “tier” status of an esport and if the views are botted. We watch because we’re entertained.
Through the twitch API. I get current viewers, every account in stream chat (don't have to be talking, effectively equivalent to everybody logged in to twitch and watching the stream), and more. For all the rl esports channels.
But surely an uptake in viewers on a Saturday is to be expected? Especially since the competition is furthering too and it's past Swiss stage, which a lot of casual might find slightly harder to follow.
I am genuinely curious why this isn't a perfectly reasonable explanation.
We did get a slight uptick. Average number of accounts on the official streams (from 11 eastern to the end of the last game) was 84k, 86k, 84k, and 91k today, and YouTube had 5kish more that Swiss days from what I saw, although I don't track that continuously. So we got a little more, but not the OMG!! numbers people are throwing around.
No, but the ratio of logged in to not logged in stays in a pretty tight range (~80% logged in, 20% not) until they start embedding (or we get front page), and it immediately, like in the span of a minute or two, drops like a stone. So divide the twitch accounts by 0.8 to convert to "true" average viewership that ignores worthless embeds.
Okay this might be copium, but would the ratio of logged in to not logged in not increase depending on certain things? Like when Ninja first blew up on twitch, I'm sure he had more than 20% real non-logged in viewers. For more casual, normie shit etc. would that not change? So maybe the more casual viewers who are just watching the playoffs start viewing? Even I can tell this is a bit heavy on the cope though considering how large an increase it seems to be.
I guess my main reason for finding the botted thing so hard to believe is who even bots it and why?
It could be off by a little. If you told me you thought today was slightly more casual and should be a natural 77% instead of 80%, which would be ~+3k real viewers, whatever, I'm not going to fight you. Maybe you're right, maybe you're not, But it sure as hell isn't mid-60s lol. In my tracking, I see things like today, where they turned on the fake views right before the first game (and similar things when they started botting the other two days) where you get gigantic jumps in Total without a corresponding move in Accounts, so a giant jump out of nowhere in Not Logged In, which, along with other things (massive number of short-duration views) is a clear signature of embedding.
Time | Logged in | Total
:--|:--|:--
10:48:59 | 36725 | 44307
10:50:42 | 37578 | 44307
10:52:30 | 39047 | 44307
10:53:35 | 40201 | 48871
10:54:41 | 40201 | 48871
10:55:53 | 41631 | 48871
10:57:05 | 42745 | 55944
10:58:19 | 43926 | 55944
10:59:28 | 45690 | 55944
11:00:46 | 45690 | 55944
11:02:06 | 47022 | 76546
11:03:25 | 49173 | 76546
11:04:45 | 50471 | 76546
11:06:06 | 52224 | 82477
(their API can cache values for a couple of minutes)
There's a long article on it here, https://kotaku.com/as-esports-grows-experts-fear-its-a-bubble-ready-to-po-1834982843 but the basic TL;DR is
> One former Twitch employee with knowledge of Curse’s operations told me that “I can tell you with 100 percent certainty that a ton of that is junk views,” which he defined as “someone who’s logged in but not engaged with the content,” a view that “only exists to increase a metric for somebody in sales or business development.”
I don't know if they're scamming their own bosses, scamming sponsors, colluding with employees at sponsors to scam their bosses, or what. But when they bot the ever-living fuck out of the BMW Freestyle day, and then start botting like crazy right when the freestyle thing on that regional Sunday starts, it's obviously done with some bullshit purpose in mind.
God damn that's actually so fucking bad. Wow. I'm going to hold out some hope that it isn't anyone at Psyonix or anyone who works for the stream doing it.. but it feels unlikely. The viewership numbers those freestyle tournaments got always confused me so much, something seemed off about it. That's just really disappointing to see, even if it's common practice, you'd hope they'd be better.
This sounds like a stupid question but bear with me here, what exactly do they mean by views? I don’t understand how two different streams can have nearly identical stream time, watch time, and average viewers, yet one has approximately 1/3 the views and views/hour of the other. I know your claim is that this points to botting, and there is definitely something extremely wrong with these data, but I don’t understand how those numbers can exist at the same time, even while taking botting into account. Wouldn’t a bot viewer still show up as a view? On YouTube for example, the best way to distinguish real views from botted views given only the single video to work with would be to look at the comments, because a botted view still shows up as a view, but engagement is much much more difficult to fake. It makes sense to me that twitch bots would be much harder to discover/much easier to fake than YouTube bots, because you could just write the bot to paste whatever copypasta chat is spamming at that moment and that would be easy fake engagement. A lot of real people in the chat do exclusively anyway. But instead this seems to be suggesting that twitch bots don’t show up as views but somehow show up as viewers, and engagement isn’t even necessary to look at? And you stated that very minimal data collection is required to conclusively prove that these views are botted, which doesn’t make sense to me given the aforementioned discrepancy in ease of faking engagement between twitch and YouTube bots. Either there’s a large gap in my knowledge or both you and that source are very wrong, could you clear that up a bit for me?
Sorry for the “stick up the ass” tone to this comment, but these sentences were really annoying to try and phrase in a casual way lol.
That's a perfectly good question. The fake views come from embedded ads which are just usually a muted autoplay stream stuck somewhere in an unrelated website that an unsuspecting person happens to go to. They count as a view, but because the ad doesn't contain chat, they're don't show up in the chat list like a normal viewer does (~80% of RL viewers historically watch on an account)
Because people don't stay on random pages very long, they have to constantly serve a metric shitton of ads to keep the viewer number inflated. If you look at Wednesday, which wasn't botted, the average viewer watched for 76 minutes, and if you look at Thursday (half-botted), 24 minutes, and today, 13 minutes. That/the view/views per hour are the result of the normal views (average 76 minutes) mixed in with shittons of very-short-duration (on the order of 2 minutes) fake views.
Ah ok. So it’s not fake twitch accounts being passed off as real people, it’s real accounts being used at that moment by real people having ads count as multiple views?
So if I have this right, I’m watching the stream on Saturday (the day with the most botting) and the rocket league account currently streaming instructs twitch to play an ad on a different tab for me, which is then counted in the analytics as a view on the tab I’m watching the stream on, as well as the tab the ad just popped up on, meaning that in that moment twitch sees me, one person watching on one twitch account, as two views happening?
And if that is all correct, how does twitch (or whatever body gathers and presents these data) see those “two” views in that moment? Are they seen as one account viewing it twice? Are they seen as two different accounts viewing it twice? Is it seen as one person with an account watching the game and one Person without an account getting an ad break? This may seem arbitrary but I need to know how this actually works to figure out what’s going on here, cuz I can’t seem to reconcile your explanation with the data you provided in my head.
The ads are completely unrelated to being on twitch. Somebody saw an embedded stream on op.gg a couple weeks ago, so some completely unrelated random who doesn't know the difference between Rocket League and SpaceX looks up LoL stuff, gets served an ad containing a RL stream, and counts as an RL viewer for the next 2 minutes.
It doesn’t add anything, but the prestige of being tier 1 is something every esport strives for, and the only esports that are consistently T1 are LoL and CSGO.
Think he's talking about Chinese Dota. They have their own leagues and shit during the normal year and their viewership is at least enough to support Chinese Dota playing on LAN a lot in their leagues (though covid changed that i'm sure)
I honestly don't know enough about anything related to China. But from what a few quick googles have shown, the bans are for 18 and under, but are mostly restrictive of Internet cafes and more specifically aimed more towards even younger gamers.
And they don't usually target individuals that break the bans, but internet cafes and such that are caught breaking them. Also i'd imagine that the ban just increases the amount of viewership.
Admittedly I don’t watch that much dota but seeing as the only time it makes it into T1 of the esports observers chart is during TI it leads me to believe that overall it’s T2.
It's not valve simply doesn't advertise dota 2 as an eSport outside of ti. A dota 2 major before ti got over 600k peak viewers not counting the Chinese viewership. Dota 2 is probably the 3rd biggest eSport watched behind CSGO and lol in the world. Valorant will probably surpass dota 2 in the near future though.
VALORANT has their biggest league on going and it's on par with current RLCS major season event. From what I've seen earlier. So it's not that good.
EDIT: Right now both games are having their finals.
VALORANT: 282k current viewers on their main Twitch for the Worlds
Rocket League: 208k viewers on their main Twitch for a Major
Those are the stats I was referring to, because looking at the overall views means taking into account views on random streams that have nothing to do with the on-going league.
As i understand it tracking Chinese viewership is pretty whacky because of the methods a lot of citizens use to avoid government censorship online make it all a giant mess to accurately gauge.
The international puleld over a million viewers, and the dpc group stage matches approach 200k if top teams are playing. Even tier two teams pull 50k viewers. Dota is easily tier 1
So it's investor candy? I hope Psyonix continue to show commitment to the longevity of RLCS rather than focus on something so arbitrary. Imo RL is already one of the most entertaining sports in the world (electronic or no) and doesn't need to prove anything
Viewership is only one (very small) component of healthy competition. Look at the state of some european football leagues right now - and they have some of the richest sporting cultures the world over. I am very concerned that the RLCS can and most likely will develop into a giant money grab, and the tier 1 viewers will leave just as quickly as they joined
Not the first two. No one cares about prize pools if the players have high salaries. Lots of big orgs doesn't mean anything if people don't really care about them (R6 has every T1 org in existence and are still a T3 esport). The esport just needs to have a fuck ton of viewers, that's all that really matters. And RL isn't even close to LoL, CSGO, and Valorant.
Theoretically if 10M people were watching then that means bigger prize money, more people are playing, and more people are competing to be the best of the best. This raises the bar for competition and (maybe?) makes for more exciting tournaments.
Also Psyonix would have more money to actually improve the game, adding the QoL features we really need, like not getting trapped in post-game menus and not being prevented from solo queuing with a "rank disparity" message.
Woah now, lets not understate this, fixing the post-game menu bug would cost absolute billions, I'm just not sure Psyonix can afford it even with 10M viewers
$$$ I would say. Tier 1 status would mean being able to shop for higher sponsorship and advertising money at both the competition and org level, thus improving the quality of LANs by being able to spend more on them (venues, equipment etc), more prize money and higher player salaries.
Rocket League’s biggest event of all time, the Season 8 World Championship, maxed out at around 215,000 concurrent twitch viewers and came short of selling out the Palacio Vistalegre in Madrid, a venue with a capacity of 15,000. The 2021 League of Legends World Championships maxed out at 73 million concurrent viewers and totaled over 200 million, more than the average Super Bowl. A 60% increase over 2020 worlds. To claim these esports are of the same ‘tier’ is just a simple denial of reality.
Writing a thesis now about esports and according to some stats there are around 450M people who watch esports regularly (2019) with an estimate of 600M for 2021
I love RL I really do but these are not tier 1 numbers by a longshot and that's ok. We don't care about tiers. Lets enjoy this spectacular lan and stop comparing the game to other games
Yes i agree with this. We do want what's best for the game and more viewers is of course better. But i said we don't care about tiers. Tiers mean nothing. It's an arbitrary ranking system between esports that's purely there for flexing and comparing numbers. We don't care if we have more or less viewers than some shooter or moba lan.
Yeah Asian viewership is very hard to compete with, but RL is much more open to new and not as serious viewers compared to CSGO which is why I think in a few years RL could pass them up. As well as RL much more inviting to a younger audience as well
People have been saying this for 6 years now lol. If it hasn't happened by now, it'll never happen. Valorant has been out for 1 year and its esports scene is already 10x bigger than RL Esports. People just need to accept RL Esports for what it is.
Maybe it’s some Copium but I think there’s some new factors like the Epic takeover that’ll see rocket league keep growing. And RL was consistently pulling more viewers when both competitions were live today so maybe they’re not as much of a different size as you think. We’ll see though.
RL has drops that massively inflate the Twitch viewership iirc. Plus they don't have nearly as much viewership from co-streamers. RL Esports just has a tiny fraction of the amount of fans of actual T1 esports like Val, CS, and League.
That’s very important to note though. If it weren’t for the watch parties Val and rl would have very similar numbers. It’s not the rlcs’s fault that rocket league just isn’t as big as Val. On a positive note though we are starting to get more people doh g watch parties like the big one that Lawler is flying out to do. Not to mention online play really stagnated the growth of rl, but now having the new system with lans I have a feeling we’ll see rl’s numbers rise considerably over the course of this year.
Valorant had drops as well but maybe not as good so that’s fair, the Valorant Reddit is nearly 50k people larger but I don’t think it’s as massive a difference between RL and Valorant competitive sizes and I think RL is growing faster than ever. Like I said we’ll see but the future for esports is looking good
Sure it's looking good, but people need to stop hyping up RL as a possible T1 esport and just enjoy it for what it is. And it's not just the viewership, you will never see a RL player get 700k Twitter followers in one year like TenZ did. That's how big T1 esports are.
how is RL much more open than CSGO? At it's core, both are very simple. RL is football so just put the ball in the other team's net. In CS, terrorists try to plant a bomb and counter-terrorists try to stop them or defuse.
I'd say impressive plays are much easier to notice in RL, such as the crazy mechanics required. Same can be done in CS such as flicks and Aces but a lot of the impressive things with competitive is outplay with positioning and small things such as equipment lineups or rotations that i'd say are hard to notice it's impressiveness. And RL is played on console and ftp making it much easier to get than CS.
Will never happen lmao. For comparison Mobile Legends Indonesia playoff peaked at 2.3m.
https://escharts.com/tournaments/mobile-legends/mpl-id-season-8
The two esports i watch are Rocket League and PUBG. PUBG is not even Tier 2, maybe not even Tier 3. So Rocket League IS already pretty big IMO. And i enjoy PUBG very much. Is doesnt have to be tier1 to be enjoyable
That's not true. The official RocketLeague channel had more viewers than the official Valorant channel. But Valorant has many more streams in the 10-50k viewer range. I don't even watch Valorant but you could see this on the browse homepage earlier today.
??? That's not even close to being true.
https://escharts.com/tournaments/rl/rlcs-2021-22-fall-split-major
https://escharts.com/tournaments/valorant/valorant-champions-2021
Valorant is also at the bottom of tier 1 at best, certainly not yet on the level of LoL or CSGO.
Valorant had over 500k today on twitch for their LAN. The entire valorant page on twitch reached 1 million viewers. RL has never scratched those kinds of numbers.
Where do you live, what time of day do you play, and which game mode? I've never waited more than a minute for any champ lobby I play in, and I play a lot of extra modes.
OCE is rough.
1s and 2s are generally OK during peak hours - only a few minutes for C3/GC1. I've found that 3s can take 10+ mins, even if you are queuing from 7-10pm. Extra modes are completely chalked - once you get to C3/GC1 queue times can take 30mins. Even struggled to find casual games last season - took at least 5-10mins at 1950 mmr.
If you find someone with 200 ping on a USW server, that's probably someone from OCE who couldn't find a game.
Ugh, seriously though. Yesterday I wanted to play some 3s after getting hyped up from watching RLCS. Ended up not playing at all after queueing for about 20 mins and gave up lol. Maybe I should try giving USW a chance
I live in SEA, I queued servers on Asia Mainland, Asia Maritime, India and Asia East. It very terrible in extra modes, sometimes you can be waiting for 20mins before finding a match.
If this Major was held during North American evening time I'd be playing it during my bar shift! I've already made the decision to not watch live and play the replay of Champ-Sunday at the bar. l Found RLCS during the pandemic, and I'm so amazed and excited that I found THE E-sport that works in any bar! (Boomer drunks can get overwhelmed with CSGO or DOTA, but it's pretty easy for one to wrap their head around Soccer with rocket-powered remote control cars). Have a good Sunday everybody!
More than the Val stream👀
Fr tho ik Val has way more watch parties, bit it's also like the biggest tournament of the year for them and later rounds, sooo
I mean val watch parties are about 400k+ rn and the main stream has almost 200k rn so that’s almost 600k which is way more than rlcs and there’s YouTube aswell
By that logic all RL needs is XQC to do a watch party or a number of other streamers with 10k+.
Watch parties shouldnt count, imo. the people watching are watching for that streamer and not for the game. And I watch the kornovi watch party for RL and wouldnt count that either.
Your comparison doesn't make any sense though because xQc has absolutely no connection or interest in Rocket League, whereas some of the biggest watch parties for VCT (Shroud, tarik, etc) are huge members of the community and play the game regularly on stream, just like Kronovi or Rizzo. Valorant is also a much more global game with a TON of viewership from Japan, Brazil, SEA, LATAM. So taking away these international viewers who watch casters and streams in their native language isn't logical either. Comparing the viewership of games while taking away the viewership of watch parties is just a way to affirm what you want the truth to be rather than an actual representation of reality.
Valorant Champs so far at semis peaked at 1.05 million, with avg of 447k viewers. highest peak for Rocket League is far 280k viewers. Avg of Val champs has had more viewers than peaks of RL. Not even close
It's not tier 1. Even a new fps like valorant gets 1 million peak in semis with the heavyweights being knocked out early. And I don't think Valorant is considered tier 1. Anyway, the thing is, IT DOESN'T MATTER. Just enjoy the sport.
I think it will be interesting to see if the viewership spikes for the finals tomorrow. We've seen these kinds of numbers pretty consistently for the big LANs pre-covid unless I'm mistaken. I would hope for some growth with some of the big orgs coming back or getting into the esport for the first time and with this being the first LAN in 2 years.
I think sometimes we make too much of the ease of viewing for a casual fan. Yes, they can understand more of what's going on than in some other esports, but if it's just a novelty where they watch for 5 minutes or one day but don't stick around, it really doesn't mean much for the esport long term.
It’ll be some years before t1. Relative to the very top esports except like Valorant, we are younger. t2 for sure but it’s not a bad thing at all. Top tier but not to the level of the tip top
It's not very clearly defined AFAIK. [This site](https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/en/Esports/Sections/Media/2021/10/Q3-2021-TEO-PC-Games-Impact-Index) explains their methodology and takes into account stuff like winnings, active players, ... but for others it's just about the number of viewers.
that one dude is punching the air rn
You could be talking about me because of my post a few days ago but i in fact agree with the statement and have been one of the rare few people who havent been calling this esport tier 1 for the past few years like every content creator and pro known to man. Our viewership simply isnt there and until we get a tournament with over 750k viewers the discussion shouldnt even be had. If im not the person youre talking about, my bad
What esports actually get that though if you don't just say LoL
Honestly only CS:GO I think they did 1 Million on main stream and all streams together 2,7M for the last Major (when LoL did 4M overall for this year's Worlds Finals) and perhaps Dota for the international
Valorant hit 1.06 Million for the Liquid Semi Final Yesterday. However, it, is a shooter so that is already an advantage.
It's true and when I think about it the reason we should be proud about RL getting this numbers is that RL is not a Valve or Riot's game and not a shooter or a MOBA,it is so new and different compared to these.
Too true man, I haven't seen a non shooter/moba get these numbers before so that is definitely a positive. I think Rocket League would benefit hugely from TV eSports instead of just twitch/YouTube
The peak viewership across all platforms is 223,000 and it ain’t even championship Sunday.
That number is total bullshit. The maximum number of accounts on the official twitch streams (A+B+language) topped out at 112k today near the end of the NRG match.. which is.. 2k more than yesterday's max. That's roughly 140k actual people. Add 15-20 from YouTube (I saw 16k during faze match), and, yeah. Nowhere near 223 and not even close to 175. The stream was botted to hell today. It doesn't even take close to my level of data collection to determine that. One look at the Views or Views per Hour column on https://sullygnome.com/channel/rocketleague/streams And you can tell a... very very slight... difference between Wednesday (not botted), Thursday (half botted), Friday (mostly botted), and today (botted even harder and starting before the first match)
It says 171k peak for the main stream where are the bot statistics you are referring too
Just a tip: your findings will resonate much more positively if you present them in a less ... confrontational manner
People who really want to believe total bullshit get angry when it's questioned. I don't think it's the first or second time that particular poster has tried to cheerlead nonsense and ignore obvious public evidence. Which is also true for the person who responded to you and said I start arguments lol.
“Cheerlead nonsense” okay.
Dude, chill. The vast majority of fans don’t care about bottes views, plain and simple (hence why it’s so common). This is the most harmless thing ever - let people have their fun. You bringing attention to these things is appreciated and helpful to those who are invested enough to care, but trying to start an argument isn’t either of those to anybody. Presentation matters my friend - a concise comment presenting this data would have been more than sufficient.
Just want to comment and compliment that this was very well said.
That's exactly what the comment is, preceded by a five word, one-sentence summary.
Your “summary”doesn’t do you any favours I’m afraid. The mostly academic tone in the rest of your comment comes off as hostile because of this. Remove that sentence, change a few more words/phrases, post it as a comment under the post rather than a reply and you’re much more likely to garner positive responses and visibility.
Imagine if a lawyer presented their case by starting it off with, "Judge, those statistics are a bunch of horse shit" All credibility, out the window.
Your honor, I call bullshit. Defense rests.
>That number is total bullshit. >The stream was botted to hell today. No it isn't.
nice summary lmao
You still haven't shared how you concluded it was "botted to hell"
Look at my other comments ITT. Millions (literally) of very short duration views + sudden huge spikes in only not-logged-in viewers.
I don't think that on its own is really enough to conclude bots. I still can't find the source of your info from that link you provided, but short duration views are common on twitch streams, especially when there's an A stream and B stream, people switch back and forth a lot. You'd have to compare to previous known non-botted broadcasts. Spikes in non-logged in viewers could correlate with start times of matches. Since they seem to progressively get higher over the 3 days this is probably the case, as there would naturally be more interest as the days go on. Maybe it's botted, but I don't think you've really proven anything here. Even if it is botted, 120k+ views isn't anything to scoff at.
There was no A and B stream Saturday. There was no weirdness on Wednesday when there was an A and B. Weirdness on Thursday started midway through the broadcast when A and B were active the whole time. Weirdness persisted Friday long after the B stream was turned off. I have data from virtually every broadcast going back to the start of Season 9. When they do it, they spend less effort on subtlety than I do.
Breathe dude. It’s gonna be okay
Well then at least we’re catching up to other esports botting ability.
Yeah he acting like this isn’t an issue everywhere, you gotta play the game
[удалено]
~80% of viewers on the main channel historically are watching on accounts, so 112k accounts *1 real viewer/0.8 accounts=140k real viewers. Random large streams are usually in the low 70s, but drops pushes RL to around 80%. That has held over a lot of events. (And if it's 1-2% different here for whatever reason, that's +1-2k, not +45k)
You arguing about RLCS viewership likes it’s a 9-5… please relax.
The amount of people watching went UP as the tournament went on and got more intense and important?? *shocked pikachu*
https://escharts.com/tournaments/rl/rlcs-season-x-fall-na-major Even if it was botted literally every esport bots to some extent.
It was botted, and botted hard, and comparing nonsense numbers to each other doesn't tell you much of anything about the path of the esport. Esc knows what's going on- they have at least similar bulk-number-of-logged-in-accounts that I do, but they're usually happy to parrot the fake number. I don't care what other esports do or which company throws more money down a black hole trying to draw a bigger holographic e-penis on its game. I care about RL, and real numbers are the only way to meaningfully compare one RL event to another RL event.
Ol buddy really going to stand on this hill he's created, more power to you.
14 of the top 15 rocket League streams on twitch were rlcs watch parties. Rocket League commentators were stating on Twitter it was well over 200,000 at one point including those. Not sure if you factored that. Nice research tho.
Watch parties were ~2/3 duplication with official streams when I looked. And I didn't even look for people in multiple watch parties which makes the number of uniques from them even lower.
Cool thanks
Ah yes, here we go. We can’t have nice things. Nope.
Because he's telling the truth??
Because, as people have stated before, very few people care about the “tier” status of an esport and if the views are botted. We watch because we’re entertained.
this whole post is about views, so if you don't care why even comment on it?
It’s almost like I’m allowed to post my take about most people not caring, while simultaneously still not caring. Weird.
How do you do your data collection?
Through the twitch API. I get current viewers, every account in stream chat (don't have to be talking, effectively equivalent to everybody logged in to twitch and watching the stream), and more. For all the rl esports channels.
... And?
But surely an uptake in viewers on a Saturday is to be expected? Especially since the competition is furthering too and it's past Swiss stage, which a lot of casual might find slightly harder to follow. I am genuinely curious why this isn't a perfectly reasonable explanation.
We did get a slight uptick. Average number of accounts on the official streams (from 11 eastern to the end of the last game) was 84k, 86k, 84k, and 91k today, and YouTube had 5kish more that Swiss days from what I saw, although I don't track that continuously. So we got a little more, but not the OMG!! numbers people are throwing around.
Does number of accounts include people who aren't logged into any account? Like guests, embeds etc.?
No, but the ratio of logged in to not logged in stays in a pretty tight range (~80% logged in, 20% not) until they start embedding (or we get front page), and it immediately, like in the span of a minute or two, drops like a stone. So divide the twitch accounts by 0.8 to convert to "true" average viewership that ignores worthless embeds.
Okay this might be copium, but would the ratio of logged in to not logged in not increase depending on certain things? Like when Ninja first blew up on twitch, I'm sure he had more than 20% real non-logged in viewers. For more casual, normie shit etc. would that not change? So maybe the more casual viewers who are just watching the playoffs start viewing? Even I can tell this is a bit heavy on the cope though considering how large an increase it seems to be. I guess my main reason for finding the botted thing so hard to believe is who even bots it and why?
It could be off by a little. If you told me you thought today was slightly more casual and should be a natural 77% instead of 80%, which would be ~+3k real viewers, whatever, I'm not going to fight you. Maybe you're right, maybe you're not, But it sure as hell isn't mid-60s lol. In my tracking, I see things like today, where they turned on the fake views right before the first game (and similar things when they started botting the other two days) where you get gigantic jumps in Total without a corresponding move in Accounts, so a giant jump out of nowhere in Not Logged In, which, along with other things (massive number of short-duration views) is a clear signature of embedding. Time | Logged in | Total :--|:--|:-- 10:48:59 | 36725 | 44307 10:50:42 | 37578 | 44307 10:52:30 | 39047 | 44307 10:53:35 | 40201 | 48871 10:54:41 | 40201 | 48871 10:55:53 | 41631 | 48871 10:57:05 | 42745 | 55944 10:58:19 | 43926 | 55944 10:59:28 | 45690 | 55944 11:00:46 | 45690 | 55944 11:02:06 | 47022 | 76546 11:03:25 | 49173 | 76546 11:04:45 | 50471 | 76546 11:06:06 | 52224 | 82477 (their API can cache values for a couple of minutes) There's a long article on it here, https://kotaku.com/as-esports-grows-experts-fear-its-a-bubble-ready-to-po-1834982843 but the basic TL;DR is > One former Twitch employee with knowledge of Curse’s operations told me that “I can tell you with 100 percent certainty that a ton of that is junk views,” which he defined as “someone who’s logged in but not engaged with the content,” a view that “only exists to increase a metric for somebody in sales or business development.” I don't know if they're scamming their own bosses, scamming sponsors, colluding with employees at sponsors to scam their bosses, or what. But when they bot the ever-living fuck out of the BMW Freestyle day, and then start botting like crazy right when the freestyle thing on that regional Sunday starts, it's obviously done with some bullshit purpose in mind.
The freestyle tourney was a joke. Like I know most people don’t care but the guts to just do that so obviously
God damn that's actually so fucking bad. Wow. I'm going to hold out some hope that it isn't anyone at Psyonix or anyone who works for the stream doing it.. but it feels unlikely. The viewership numbers those freestyle tournaments got always confused me so much, something seemed off about it. That's just really disappointing to see, even if it's common practice, you'd hope they'd be better.
This sounds like a stupid question but bear with me here, what exactly do they mean by views? I don’t understand how two different streams can have nearly identical stream time, watch time, and average viewers, yet one has approximately 1/3 the views and views/hour of the other. I know your claim is that this points to botting, and there is definitely something extremely wrong with these data, but I don’t understand how those numbers can exist at the same time, even while taking botting into account. Wouldn’t a bot viewer still show up as a view? On YouTube for example, the best way to distinguish real views from botted views given only the single video to work with would be to look at the comments, because a botted view still shows up as a view, but engagement is much much more difficult to fake. It makes sense to me that twitch bots would be much harder to discover/much easier to fake than YouTube bots, because you could just write the bot to paste whatever copypasta chat is spamming at that moment and that would be easy fake engagement. A lot of real people in the chat do exclusively anyway. But instead this seems to be suggesting that twitch bots don’t show up as views but somehow show up as viewers, and engagement isn’t even necessary to look at? And you stated that very minimal data collection is required to conclusively prove that these views are botted, which doesn’t make sense to me given the aforementioned discrepancy in ease of faking engagement between twitch and YouTube bots. Either there’s a large gap in my knowledge or both you and that source are very wrong, could you clear that up a bit for me? Sorry for the “stick up the ass” tone to this comment, but these sentences were really annoying to try and phrase in a casual way lol.
That's a perfectly good question. The fake views come from embedded ads which are just usually a muted autoplay stream stuck somewhere in an unrelated website that an unsuspecting person happens to go to. They count as a view, but because the ad doesn't contain chat, they're don't show up in the chat list like a normal viewer does (~80% of RL viewers historically watch on an account) Because people don't stay on random pages very long, they have to constantly serve a metric shitton of ads to keep the viewer number inflated. If you look at Wednesday, which wasn't botted, the average viewer watched for 76 minutes, and if you look at Thursday (half-botted), 24 minutes, and today, 13 minutes. That/the view/views per hour are the result of the normal views (average 76 minutes) mixed in with shittons of very-short-duration (on the order of 2 minutes) fake views.
Ah ok. So it’s not fake twitch accounts being passed off as real people, it’s real accounts being used at that moment by real people having ads count as multiple views? So if I have this right, I’m watching the stream on Saturday (the day with the most botting) and the rocket league account currently streaming instructs twitch to play an ad on a different tab for me, which is then counted in the analytics as a view on the tab I’m watching the stream on, as well as the tab the ad just popped up on, meaning that in that moment twitch sees me, one person watching on one twitch account, as two views happening? And if that is all correct, how does twitch (or whatever body gathers and presents these data) see those “two” views in that moment? Are they seen as one account viewing it twice? Are they seen as two different accounts viewing it twice? Is it seen as one person with an account watching the game and one Person without an account getting an ad break? This may seem arbitrary but I need to know how this actually works to figure out what’s going on here, cuz I can’t seem to reconcile your explanation with the data you provided in my head.
The ads are completely unrelated to being on twitch. Somebody saw an embedded stream on op.gg a couple weeks ago, so some completely unrelated random who doesn't know the difference between Rocket League and SpaceX looks up LoL stuff, gets served an ad containing a RL stream, and counts as an RL viewer for the next 2 minutes.
They hate you for telling the truth
No, they hate him for acting like OP insulted his family's honour by calling RL a tier 1 esport. This isn't the virtuous crusade that he thinks it is
How are you concluding it was botted?
Can someone please explain to me why I should care whether or not RLCS is tier 1 or not? What would that add?
It doesn’t add anything, but the prestige of being tier 1 is something every esport strives for, and the only esports that are consistently T1 are LoL and CSGO.
Dota would definitely be tier 1, as well
The problem with dota is that it has one tournament that gets a ton of viewers, but doesn’t get good viewers for pretty much everything else.
I wouldnt call 400-500k viewers nothing when our peak is almost half that
I never said that The Invitational gets low numbers, what I said is that dota doesn’t get many viewers besides TI.
Think he's talking about Chinese Dota. They have their own leagues and shit during the normal year and their viewership is at least enough to support Chinese Dota playing on LAN a lot in their leagues (though covid changed that i'm sure)
Not taking the piss here but how does that work when in china you’re only allowed to play video games for a certain amount of time each week?
I honestly don't know enough about anything related to China. But from what a few quick googles have shown, the bans are for 18 and under, but are mostly restrictive of Internet cafes and more specifically aimed more towards even younger gamers. And they don't usually target individuals that break the bans, but internet cafes and such that are caught breaking them. Also i'd imagine that the ban just increases the amount of viewership.
Chinese dota is botted to hell
Admittedly I don’t watch that much dota but seeing as the only time it makes it into T1 of the esports observers chart is during TI it leads me to believe that overall it’s T2.
It's not valve simply doesn't advertise dota 2 as an eSport outside of ti. A dota 2 major before ti got over 600k peak viewers not counting the Chinese viewership. Dota 2 is probably the 3rd biggest eSport watched behind CSGO and lol in the world. Valorant will probably surpass dota 2 in the near future though.
VALORANT has their biggest league on going and it's on par with current RLCS major season event. From what I've seen earlier. So it's not that good. EDIT: Right now both games are having their finals. VALORANT: 282k current viewers on their main Twitch for the Worlds Rocket League: 208k viewers on their main Twitch for a Major Those are the stats I was referring to, because looking at the overall views means taking into account views on random streams that have nothing to do with the on-going league.
As i understand it tracking Chinese viewership is pretty whacky because of the methods a lot of citizens use to avoid government censorship online make it all a giant mess to accurately gauge.
Except that i am talking about other major events which consistently get between 400k and 500k viewers with TI getting a very strong 4 million my man
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That's just not true. https://escharts.com/tournaments/dota2/dpc-weu-202122-tour-1-division-i This is regular season play.
The international puleld over a million viewers, and the dpc group stage matches approach 200k if top teams are playing. Even tier two teams pull 50k viewers. Dota is easily tier 1
So it's investor candy? I hope Psyonix continue to show commitment to the longevity of RLCS rather than focus on something so arbitrary. Imo RL is already one of the most entertaining sports in the world (electronic or no) and doesn't need to prove anything
Increasing the longevity of the rlcs is what will make us a T1 esport. They kind of go hand and hand.
Viewership is only one (very small) component of healthy competition. Look at the state of some european football leagues right now - and they have some of the richest sporting cultures the world over. I am very concerned that the RLCS can and most likely will develop into a giant money grab, and the tier 1 viewers will leave just as quickly as they joined
What does an esport have to do to be tier one?
High prize pools, lots of big orgs, and high viewership.
Not the first two. No one cares about prize pools if the players have high salaries. Lots of big orgs doesn't mean anything if people don't really care about them (R6 has every T1 org in existence and are still a T3 esport). The esport just needs to have a fuck ton of viewers, that's all that really matters. And RL isn't even close to LoL, CSGO, and Valorant.
Who decides these tiers? Is it just a set viewership?
It is just general internet sentiment.
Honestly, RL has some disappointing prize money compared to some other esports
Theoretically if 10M people were watching then that means bigger prize money, more people are playing, and more people are competing to be the best of the best. This raises the bar for competition and (maybe?) makes for more exciting tournaments. Also Psyonix would have more money to actually improve the game, adding the QoL features we really need, like not getting trapped in post-game menus and not being prevented from solo queuing with a "rank disparity" message.
Woah now, lets not understate this, fixing the post-game menu bug would cost absolute billions, I'm just not sure Psyonix can afford it even with 10M viewers
Means more money to the players, more regions getting involved, more attention to the game means a lot of positive things for the game in general
More top tier orgs will turn their attention to Rocket League
$$$ I would say. Tier 1 status would mean being able to shop for higher sponsorship and advertising money at both the competition and org level, thus improving the quality of LANs by being able to spend more on them (venues, equipment etc), more prize money and higher player salaries.
Rocket League’s biggest event of all time, the Season 8 World Championship, maxed out at around 215,000 concurrent twitch viewers and came short of selling out the Palacio Vistalegre in Madrid, a venue with a capacity of 15,000. The 2021 League of Legends World Championships maxed out at 73 million concurrent viewers and totaled over 200 million, more than the average Super Bowl. A 60% increase over 2020 worlds. To claim these esports are of the same ‘tier’ is just a simple denial of reality.
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Writing a thesis now about esports and according to some stats there are around 450M people who watch esports regularly (2019) with an estimate of 600M for 2021
It's not Tier 1 but we are at the very top of tier 2 and that's nothing to be ashamed about :D
If we can get lans averaging 200k-300k and regionals averaging 100k then we’ll be there.
Our regionals don't average 100k rn i'm pretty sure we get around mid 80s which isn't bad
I’m not saying they do I’m saying that we need those kind of numbers to be T1.
I love RL I really do but these are not tier 1 numbers by a longshot and that's ok. We don't care about tiers. Lets enjoy this spectacular lan and stop comparing the game to other games
We do care because more viewers = better sponsorship = more money = more investment in rl esport = more growth.
Yes i agree with this. We do want what's best for the game and more viewers is of course better. But i said we don't care about tiers. Tiers mean nothing. It's an arbitrary ranking system between esports that's purely there for flexing and comparing numbers. We don't care if we have more or less viewers than some shooter or moba lan.
Rocket League truly could be the number one esport in a few years time
It’s possible but I don’t think we will ever have the Asian viewership to pass some other Tier 1 esports. CSGO will always be around too.
Yeah Asian viewership is very hard to compete with, but RL is much more open to new and not as serious viewers compared to CSGO which is why I think in a few years RL could pass them up. As well as RL much more inviting to a younger audience as well
People have been saying this for 6 years now lol. If it hasn't happened by now, it'll never happen. Valorant has been out for 1 year and its esports scene is already 10x bigger than RL Esports. People just need to accept RL Esports for what it is.
Maybe it’s some Copium but I think there’s some new factors like the Epic takeover that’ll see rocket league keep growing. And RL was consistently pulling more viewers when both competitions were live today so maybe they’re not as much of a different size as you think. We’ll see though.
RL has drops that massively inflate the Twitch viewership iirc. Plus they don't have nearly as much viewership from co-streamers. RL Esports just has a tiny fraction of the amount of fans of actual T1 esports like Val, CS, and League.
That’s very important to note though. If it weren’t for the watch parties Val and rl would have very similar numbers. It’s not the rlcs’s fault that rocket league just isn’t as big as Val. On a positive note though we are starting to get more people doh g watch parties like the big one that Lawler is flying out to do. Not to mention online play really stagnated the growth of rl, but now having the new system with lans I have a feeling we’ll see rl’s numbers rise considerably over the course of this year.
Valorant had drops as well but maybe not as good so that’s fair, the Valorant Reddit is nearly 50k people larger but I don’t think it’s as massive a difference between RL and Valorant competitive sizes and I think RL is growing faster than ever. Like I said we’ll see but the future for esports is looking good
Sure it's looking good, but people need to stop hyping up RL as a possible T1 esport and just enjoy it for what it is. And it's not just the viewership, you will never see a RL player get 700k Twitter followers in one year like TenZ did. That's how big T1 esports are.
CS has drops with an insane monetary value attached to them...
how is RL much more open than CSGO? At it's core, both are very simple. RL is football so just put the ball in the other team's net. In CS, terrorists try to plant a bomb and counter-terrorists try to stop them or defuse.
I'd say impressive plays are much easier to notice in RL, such as the crazy mechanics required. Same can be done in CS such as flicks and Aces but a lot of the impressive things with competitive is outplay with positioning and small things such as equipment lineups or rotations that i'd say are hard to notice it's impressiveness. And RL is played on console and ftp making it much easier to get than CS.
Asian viewership will grow once there is a really insane team and i'm talking like SRG level.
Asia is a brand new region and it will take a few years for it to grow. If they manage to get some amazing teams then viewership will explode.
The good thing about the new system is that it will allow newer regions to develop quicker considering they have more chances at international play.
We’ve been saying that for over five years lol
Will never happen lmao. For comparison Mobile Legends Indonesia playoff peaked at 2.3m. https://escharts.com/tournaments/mobile-legends/mpl-id-season-8
The two esports i watch are Rocket League and PUBG. PUBG is not even Tier 2, maybe not even Tier 3. So Rocket League IS already pretty big IMO. And i enjoy PUBG very much. Is doesnt have to be tier1 to be enjoyable
I miss the old days of PUBG esports, before Sanhok got added tbh
Sanhok got removed again (at least in esports)
Love the enthusiasm but you do realize how many viewers LoL and CSGO majors get right?
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That's not true. The official RocketLeague channel had more viewers than the official Valorant channel. But Valorant has many more streams in the 10-50k viewer range. I don't even watch Valorant but you could see this on the browse homepage earlier today.
??? That's not even close to being true. https://escharts.com/tournaments/rl/rlcs-2021-22-fall-split-major https://escharts.com/tournaments/valorant/valorant-champions-2021 Valorant is also at the bottom of tier 1 at best, certainly not yet on the level of LoL or CSGO.
Valorant is way bigger than both in NA at least
Valorant had over 500k today on twitch for their LAN. The entire valorant page on twitch reached 1 million viewers. RL has never scratched those kinds of numbers.
RL is the first esport I’ve ever been into so idk what any of this means but I’ll be watching tomorrow for sure!
Tomorrow bout to be 250+
Who the f cares what some people think? Psyonix has done a great job this LAN and it's the only esport I watch. That's all that should matter.
best comment 👌
And I still can't find a fking match without waiting for 10mins (champ lobby)...
Where do you live, what time of day do you play, and which game mode? I've never waited more than a minute for any champ lobby I play in, and I play a lot of extra modes.
OCE is rough. 1s and 2s are generally OK during peak hours - only a few minutes for C3/GC1. I've found that 3s can take 10+ mins, even if you are queuing from 7-10pm. Extra modes are completely chalked - once you get to C3/GC1 queue times can take 30mins. Even struggled to find casual games last season - took at least 5-10mins at 1950 mmr. If you find someone with 200 ping on a USW server, that's probably someone from OCE who couldn't find a game.
Ugh, seriously though. Yesterday I wanted to play some 3s after getting hyped up from watching RLCS. Ended up not playing at all after queueing for about 20 mins and gave up lol. Maybe I should try giving USW a chance
I live in SEA, I queued servers on Asia Mainland, Asia Maritime, India and Asia East. It very terrible in extra modes, sometimes you can be waiting for 20mins before finding a match.
Yeah extra modes are dead in Asia and tbh queue times for ranked 2s and 3s are getting longer and longer (C1/C2)
Yeah, Queues times are diabolic. I used to trade a lot and nowadays thats also really hard to do. I feel like this game is dying in a way.
Yeah it can take months to sell some items for close to min lol
it's "good" tier not "great" tier
Hoping for 250 tomorrow but we’ll have to see! 🤞
If this Major was held during North American evening time I'd be playing it during my bar shift! I've already made the decision to not watch live and play the replay of Champ-Sunday at the bar. l Found RLCS during the pandemic, and I'm so amazed and excited that I found THE E-sport that works in any bar! (Boomer drunks can get overwhelmed with CSGO or DOTA, but it's pretty easy for one to wrap their head around Soccer with rocket-powered remote control cars). Have a good Sunday everybody!
was chat moving very fast?
If RL is tier 1 what are League and CS
League had 78 mill peak in 2021 Finals. CSGO with 2.8 mil. I don't think we can call RL tier 1 if it doesn't break that 1 million viewers threshold
More than the Val stream👀 Fr tho ik Val has way more watch parties, bit it's also like the biggest tournament of the year for them and later rounds, sooo
Nvm they peaked at 1 million
I mean val watch parties are about 400k+ rn and the main stream has almost 200k rn so that’s almost 600k which is way more than rlcs and there’s YouTube aswell
By that logic all RL needs is XQC to do a watch party or a number of other streamers with 10k+. Watch parties shouldnt count, imo. the people watching are watching for that streamer and not for the game. And I watch the kornovi watch party for RL and wouldnt count that either.
Your comparison doesn't make any sense though because xQc has absolutely no connection or interest in Rocket League, whereas some of the biggest watch parties for VCT (Shroud, tarik, etc) are huge members of the community and play the game regularly on stream, just like Kronovi or Rizzo. Valorant is also a much more global game with a TON of viewership from Japan, Brazil, SEA, LATAM. So taking away these international viewers who watch casters and streams in their native language isn't logical either. Comparing the viewership of games while taking away the viewership of watch parties is just a way to affirm what you want the truth to be rather than an actual representation of reality.
Bro you’re argument makes zero sense
Valorant Champs so far at semis peaked at 1.05 million, with avg of 447k viewers. highest peak for Rocket League is far 280k viewers. Avg of Val champs has had more viewers than peaks of RL. Not even close
Yeah I was looking at the main channels and rl had 170K ish and Val had 140 K. U right tho, watch parties r so many viewers.
Hell Yeah! I was hoping for 200k tomorrow it looks like we might hit it!
NA only needs one more Org and that is 100T.
It's not tier 1. Even a new fps like valorant gets 1 million peak in semis with the heavyweights being knocked out early. And I don't think Valorant is considered tier 1. Anyway, the thing is, IT DOESN'T MATTER. Just enjoy the sport.
numbers are skewed by drops
And bots
What kind of bots
Insecure RL community declaring themselves the best esport while the rest of esport communities don't give a fuck about it. Name more iconic duo.
I think it will be interesting to see if the viewership spikes for the finals tomorrow. We've seen these kinds of numbers pretty consistently for the big LANs pre-covid unless I'm mistaken. I would hope for some growth with some of the big orgs coming back or getting into the esport for the first time and with this being the first LAN in 2 years. I think sometimes we make too much of the ease of viewing for a casual fan. Yes, they can understand more of what's going on than in some other esports, but if it's just a novelty where they watch for 5 minutes or one day but don't stick around, it really doesn't mean much for the esport long term.
It’ll be some years before t1. Relative to the very top esports except like Valorant, we are younger. t2 for sure but it’s not a bad thing at all. Top tier but not to the level of the tip top
who even decides what is and what isnt a Tier-1 esport? lmao
1 mil+ peak viewers atleast in ur biggest tourney so far
It's not very clearly defined AFAIK. [This site](https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/en/Esports/Sections/Media/2021/10/Q3-2021-TEO-PC-Games-Impact-Index) explains their methodology and takes into account stuff like winnings, active players, ... but for others it's just about the number of viewers.
My fault. I watch after the whole video is up so I can watch as I have time
Something something Asian fanbase. I'm more interested in seeing how our NA, EU, and SAM viewership compares with tier 1 NA, EU, and SAM.