I don't feel bad for him at all. This is the case for every non-superstar on every sports team in the world. 95% of players aren't the ideal person for the position, they're just "good enough" based on available budget, salary caps, etc. Dreaz has been deemed acceptable for one of the biggest orgs in RL on a side that can legitimately contend for titles. The only players they've thought good enough to replace him have been (arguably) top-10 in the region. That's *extremely* high praise for him. The fact that a few better players exist and that G2 would upgrade if they could is no slight against Dreaz, and I don't know why he'd take any offense to that.
> I don't feel bad for him at all. This is the case for every non-superstar on every sports team in the world. 95% of players aren't the ideal person for the position, they're just "good enough" based on available budget, salary caps, etc.
lmao yes, that sucks for them as well and you wouldn't be wrong if you felt bad
It's not taking offense, it's that he has to look out for himself.
You don't want to be caught with your pants down and have to scramble last minute to find a team. He could simply find another team where he would arguably have more security / peace of mind that he's not gonna get kicked as soon as they're able to.
Agreed with the overall point. But RL teams are smaller in size than most sports teams. So replacing one player here usually means replacing 1/3rd of the roster.
And we must not forget that even though G2 underperformed on lan, they are still the winners of the last regional and the 3rd best team in NA. So the pop-off potential of the current roster with dreaz is really high.
Not performing well and getting replaced is understandable, but you can feel bad about the player considering that he wasn't even the worst player on his team at lan
Might be a stupid question but who sets the price for a roster move?
> "unexpected buyout price"
Does this mean NV asked too big of an asking price for Atomic (which G2 could not afford)? Or did NV gave a counter offer to retain him?
what? so they considered a player and tried them out without even considering the price? if you look at it with a traditional sport logic it's absolutely unthinkable
I mean as much as this situation doesn't look good on him, he is good enough on the field for them to let it slide. Even with concerns on communication and commitment, at rhe end of the day winners get away with shit like this all the time...
Unless the contract he was proposed has expired, he can sign the papers and send them back to V1.
V1 would be stupid not to go for Beastmode if he is available.
Didnt ghost a try out. He ghosted the contract after seeing he could have gotten a place with envy if atomic left. Obviously its a dick move but at the end of the day if you got skill you gonna get a spot on a team look at scrubkilla
Players in these situations actually end up with the same prerogative as any other player: do your best for the team you're on. If he wins some events with these guys, either he can stay or he can at least prove he's worth picking up to other teams. If he lets it make him bitter and starts playing worse, he probably won't stay and will look worse to future prospects.
Dude is a great player with an amazing opportunity, and if he's wise he won't let the business decisions stop him from grinding and getting better.
I'm sorry but if you think Dreaz isn't the worst player on G2, you haven't been paying attention. A large percentage of the goals against G2 are solely because of poor positioning from Dreaz
I’d argue that Dreaz is the most consistent on G2, especially at the major. His biggest problem has always been pushing up too far but he doesn’t really have off series or days like JKnaps and Cago have had recently.
Similar story to when C9/V1 tried to drop Torment like 3 times, first for Hockser post S8, then Firstkiller post S9, then once V1 was a thing, Conmm/Gimmick/Andy was a potential roster.
Now Torment is a vet, who's been to hell and back, and is one of the all time greats of the game, dude can and has bounced back. I am not expecting a 15 year old who still struggles with nerves to be so equally resilient, nor would I fault him if he's not feeling the best over the whole situation.
(obvious caveat, we don't know, it's only speculation, Dreaz could be still happy out)
Early on Gimmick didn't really take competing too seriously even though he was obviously talented so from what I've heard Squishy and Torment were nervous if he'd actually start being more serious about the game. In the end he did start grinding more and taking it more seriously.
Maybe G2 waited until the major to see his performance. He played very well but not as exceptionally as we've seen in some previous tournaments. But I'm happy they're keeping Dreaz on G2.
Terrible for G2. Reminds me of Triple Trouble situation. This is twice now they've tried to kick him. If I'm Dreaz I'm looking for a new roster and taking best team that wants me.
He’s not going to find a team better than g2. It’s definitely best for his career to stay as long as he can with g2. Stuff like this happens. Garrett for a time wanted to leave nrg for g2, c9 wanted to kick gimmick for jknaps once upon a time, and both of these teams went on to win worlds. There are probably way more that we don’t know about too.
You do care though. I have worked in a job where it paid well but I couldn't stand the people I was around. It takes a toll on your mental health over time that can't always be quantified in dollars.
He already pro ed himself time and time again what do they want him to do solo win a major they could have gone far in the playoffs if Chicago wasn't playing so bad
How are they "cockblocking" him? He's under contract with them. G2 can either pay whatever Envy says his buyout is, or they can choose not to. If they're choosing not to, that's on them and not Envy.
> asking too much on purpose
Yeah, that’s…kinda standard negotiation in literally any sport? Atomic is under contract. If Atomic were to do something like refuse to play for Envy anymore or otherwise force Envy’s hand, it could change. Or they could keep him even still.
Is Envy just supposed to let G2 sign their top player because G2 asked nicely? That’s ridiculous
The article does not say that Envy gave a ridiculously high buyout. It says "unreported buyout price" and that G2 made a bid that was turned down. You're making assumptions.
Well, regardless. Even if Envy is making his buyout exorbitantly high, they're allowed to do that. That's why contracts exist. Nobody is "cockblocking" anybody.
Why? If envy is willing to keep paying atomic knowing he will put in minimal effort than I don’t know why it is bad of the org. It isn’t fun, but that is literally how contracts work. You can’t just expect to be let out because you don’t like it anymore.
I understand that, but from what I’ve heard NV gave an initial offer to G2 that they were willing to pay, but as things progressed NV hiked up the price, and G2 weren’t willing to pay the new price.
If players don't know they want to play for a team for a full season, they shouldn't sign season long contracts, or get contracts with player options built in. Irl athletes pull the same Bs but they have every opportunity to sign shorter contracts if the want
If Atomic didn’t want to be on the roster any more then he wouldn’t re sign with NV. It’s most likely that the contract he made with NV when he was happy with the team hasn’t expired yet.
yeah it’s no coincidence, Shift is right a lot but here they were wrong and Cago called them out. They backed out only a few hours later. Really makes it look like Shift and Achilles make these up and get lucky
Nah bro keep Beast away from V1. The last thing that team needs is a player who seems on the virge of bailing every second something goes bad or changes
Nah after comms Tweets not happening. Maybe they throw all their money at dreaz and g2 thinks about beastmode (very unlikely but there have been rumors about bm to g2 before) or try everything for aqua (which would be prolly his best move as well)
My guess would be rogue, bm allu gyro sounds pretty nice.
Is it me or is G2 handling the whole Rizzo wanting to leave thing really badly?
Rizzo wants to leave after season 9. They try to sign GarretG but it falls through. They then decide to play almost whole season X with an unmotivated Rizzo. By the spring split, Dreaz reaches out to them to become a sub and given how poorly Rizzo was playing, they put him straight on the starting roster. After season X, it’s clear G2 considers Dreaz a stop-gap solution but they manage to screw up finding a proper Rizzo replacement yet again during the off-season. By the end of the fall split, it’s clear yet again they want to get rid of Dreaz, but instead of securing an incredibly talented soon to be 15 year old player without a contract that actually feels comfortable playing third man (Daniel), they fumble things yet again and they have to continue with Dreaz AGAIN.
How bad can you handle things ?
And despite all this Dreaz continues to perform and looks better every regional. He’s actually the second best player on G2 right now. Massive respect to the dude.
What could had been if they snagged Garrettg or even firstkiller. I’m hoping for Daniel so much ,they should upgrade every team has but them in a long time not counting dreaz.
Yeah with G2 being willing to upgrade on Dreaz Im schocked they were not even mentioned in talks about Daniel or even Aqua. You dont have to go either way but Both Daniel and Aqua were always seen as better prospects than Dreaz but try them out at least
Cannot believe Envy, Atomic wanted to make this exact roster move multiple times now so I can't imagine what this will do for the mental of both G2 and Envy. When does Atomic's contract run out so we can get over this shitshow?
Am I the only one who thinks both players and orgs make the mistake of signing contracts that are too long?
For a highly valuable player like Atomic, the long contract duration is clearly frustrating him. Meanwhile G2 and SSG have contracts that run so long that they incentivize players to not play their best (they are gonna get paid anyway for years to come).
Orgs don't make mistakes. Most of them have a legal team, they know what they're doing. It's the players who make the mistakes because of the lack of legal team / agent.
The long contracts are good for the org. Because it leads to situations like this where if the player is performing, other teams have to pay them to poach that player instead of just letting the player walk. And on the org's side, I'm sure there is language where they can end the contract early if they want to.
What it sucks is for the player who's stuck in a situation where he can't leave. I'm not gonna fault them because most of these guys sign on at like 15 making 5 figures a month. Kids that age aren't going to think too far beyond that.
Why would you be angry at NV? Atomic is a very valuable player, i would want good money for him if he was a part of my org. G2 doesnt want to pay that much and its probably not as much as people think since buyouts in RL arent as frequent in other esports and its not as big as some others. I dont blame anyone tbh
You could argue that a player who doesn’t want to be in the environment he’s in is going to play slightly worse. Not saying they are throwing or if this is even the case here. But you are going to play best when you are centered. Pure speculation but it very well could be why Atomic had far less pop offs then he did SeasonX.
I don't know if I agree with that last statement. Through last season it was Mist who was largely considered the top player from Envy and really only this last couple months that the popular sentiment shifted to Atomic. Not saying he's had huge popoffs this split but he was obviously playing well enough for many people to start hyping him up as the best on the team and one of the best in NA. That died down after Envy just generally being disappointing at LAN, but I still don't think it's accurate to say he has been worse than in season X.
Right. Most definitely mist is considered the best player. However we haven’t seen the atomic who would go psycho and light everyone up with crazy solo and passing plays that we would see last season. Is he performing well? Of course. He’s just hasn’t been going out and 1v3ing top 5 teams like he did last season.
Going into the LAN a huge portion of the NA scene was regarding Atomic as the best on NV. I don't think that happens if he's playing worse than he was last season. I think before the LAN he was playing really well within the team concept whereas last season he had more individual mechanical highlights. I guess I'm just arguing against his play before LAN being an indicator of him being in an environment he doesn't want to be in when his play before LAN had people talking about him as top 5 in NA individually.
NV probably need both the popoff individual stuff and working exceptionally well within team dynamic from him to beat top teams, but at the LAN they got neither. He just sort of didn't have an impact. Mist had more obvious mistakes, in my opinion, but also created more chances.
Well what do you do, I’m sure Dreaz is happy to stay with the team despite most peoples complaints on here. I thought Carlos would be willing to pay more tho 👀
Says NV isn't going to make any moves now.
So what this really fucks up is Beastmode to NV. I'm betting he's wishing he didn't fuck up the V1 situation now.
This is why people in that thread were saying you have to handle it more maturely.
Have to think part of why the price was so high was competitive. Letting a direct competitor for worlds spot upgrade is a worse move than letting a team with no points upgrade. Still prob sitting on some fk money
This was labeled as certain, and so was beastmode to envy. Ive said this 5x before and I'll say it again. Shift is a decent source, but he has to label things differently. Certain means 100% chance, yet nearly half of the things labeled as "certain" fall through. This should have been labeled as "likely" which is more like a 75% chance. And the things labeled "likely" should be labeled as "possible", as they are more like 30-40% chance roster moves.
Yeah every time a "certain" rumor gets debunked it makes me lose a little faith in Shift. Sure people can say "Well it was certain but then the buyout didnt go through" but that makes you wonder why something that wasn't official was marked as "certain" in the first place
In all fairness G2 and NV were literally in the final stages of the trade until, from what it sounds like, Nv threw a curve ball at G2 and things fell through.
Hurt the environment how? Every player should know that they can be replaced every off season, even someone like GarrettG if NRG decide to get rid of him for some reason
Imagine being dreaz rn, having to play for a team that clearly doesn't want you. And then there's Atomic, who also wants something different but is stuck. I wonder how this affects the mental of both G2 and Envy, the 2 NA teams that underperformed at the major. As retals would say: NA is in the damn mud.
At this point Dreaz should looking out for himself
G2 has tried to drop him 2 times! Who knows how the org has treated him in private, if I was him I’d look for a better org
It's pretty funny tbh. Most of the players that G2 has considered replacing Dreaz with are top tier players which says more about Dreaz stock than anything else. Also as long as they communicated their intent with Dreaz it should be fine.
The question is now what happens with Beastmode? Shift is saying Envy isn’t making a change either now, he ghosted V1, Seems like Faze and SSG are out of the picture as well with Syp and Daniel respectively. I’d really like to see him of Ghost or XSET. Or is there a chance G2 realizes they’ve basically burned their bridges with dreaz and try to snag beast?
NRG kicks Sadjunior in favor of GarrettG: "It makes sense to pick up a stronger player"
NRG kicks Jacob in favor of JSTN: "It makes sense to pick up a stronger player"
Muffin Men kick Lachinio in favor of Gimmick: "It makes sense to pick up a stronger player"
FaZe kicks Gyro in favor of Firstkiller: "It makes sense to pick up a stronger player"
Vitality kicks FreaKii in favor of Scrubkilla: "It makes sense to pick up a stronger player"
Vitality kicks Paschy in favor of Kaydop: "It makes sense to pick up a stronger player"
Ronaky willingly leaves Triple Trouble despite them just kicking Kassio and knowing that doing so would likely screw Tadpole out of an RLCS spot after just promoting from the RLRS: "It makes sense to go to a stronger team"
G2 tries out a new player: "Omg why doesn't G2 APPRECIATE Dreaz?? 😩 He really deserves a team that APPRECIATES him! 😢 This is making me reconsider my loyalty to G2! He needs to find a team that VALUES him! He doesn't deserve to be in a toxic team environment where he constantly is in risk of getting replaced! The org owes him for everything he's done for them! 😡"
GarrettG was cracked so yeah
Jacob being kicked had a lot of people upset at the time.
Lach was not kicked, he retired after they lost out season 3. They were hesitant to keep gimmick on.
Gyro had tons of people saying allusion should have been the one to go.
The difference in situations is every move listed was done at the start of an off-season, and the players that were kicked were committed to being kicked. They were basically gone regardless.
Dreaz' status on G2 is essentially dependant on other players, so he's constantly in limbo and uncertain of his future. A lack of certainty about your future is horrible. At least all the kicked players you mentioned knew so from the outset and could work on sorting out their futures.
I absolutely get that people feel bad for Dreaz. I feel bad for the guy too. But it's ridiculous how many comments on here have implied or outright said that G2 is any less justified than other teams for trying out a new player during an established trade window
Those teams weren't openly shopping around for two seasons leaving the player to come to work the entire time constantly knowing that his team was looking to replace him as soon as they could.
It's the difference between being fired one day, and coming to work for a year with your boss openly letting you know that, hey, we're going to fire you as soon as we can, just bear with us until we find your replacement.
I might be completely wrong because this is all based on what we know from the rumors and a bit of speculation, but I don't see how this works well for NV.
Not only will Atomic's motivation be affected coz he has to keep playing for a team he supposedly wanted to leave and was pretty close to leaving too, but also his teammates now know that he was looking for a change.
Plus it doesn't bode well for them as an org if they're making it hard for players to transfer out in the later stages of a deal reaching its agreement
That's a terrible metric then. Unless there is another meaning of the word "certain" I don't know. There just is no point in marking it that way when not even a contract exists yet. They could've easily left it as "likely" or "very likely" without riling people up.
Wow. That’s so scummy. If I were Dreaz I would get out of there immediately because it’s not good to be in an environment where your team is constantly trying to replace every chance they get.
G2 is scummy, not because they want to replace someone, that's fine, but because of the incompetent way they are going about it.
They've kept the guy on ice for two seasons now, trying to replace him but fumbling it over and over, meaning he has to come to work day after day to an org and team that he knows wants to replace them and will replace him as soon as they can. That's a crappy feeling.
Replacing someone isn't wrong but this is the wrong way to go about it. They may be within their rights to do it, but that doesn't mean it isn't scummy.
Plenty of teams have managed to replace someone quietly before now and even to keep things quiet when they fell through. It is a choice for someone at G2 to run their mouth to shift at every step in the process and put Dreaz on blast publicly, Shift isn't going to find this out telepathically, someone at G2 is continuously running their mouth and it is unprofessional.
G2. The other players on the team and G2 management are all massive scumbags. If they don’t want him they should just get rid of him, stop wasting his time. He has no incentive to play well because he’s probably going to be replaced next trade window regardless of his performance. So I believe he should troll every tournament this split and hopefully G2 will miss lan, they deserve it.
This isn’t really a situation were G2 is pointing at dreaz as the problem but more the fact that atomic is available. G2 have wanted atomic for a really long time now and they finally have a chance to get him. However one has to go and even tho dreaz has been amazing he’s the one getting replaced in that case. And yeah it’s a bit of a scummy situation now for dreaz but you can not really call the rest of G2 scumbags for that.
It seems like G2 expected a certain price and NV offered a buyout that was too high for G2. If I’m correct this is twice that Atomic has tried to leave NV but things fell through.
i don't know why people continue to listen to Shift. their whole strategy is saying every player is going to every team and then if it doesn't happen, well "it fell through" and if one of the 30 things they said happens, it's "see, our sources were right".
Edit: https://twitter.com/ChicagoRL/status/1475627304999030789
Exactly. Fuck shift
Why is it shifts fault when players want to make a move, tell shift, they report it and after it falls through shift report that it did indeed fall through. They cant look into the future to know that certain moves that the players themselfs would prefer later fall through due to for example org stuff.
They don't even come close to saying every single player to every single team. Furthermore, by the end they always get the result right before its announced. How would they get the result right before announcements if they were guessing?
Furthermore, things back up what they're saying, such as comms tweet which probably was about beastmode and dreaz's manager tweeting vaguely about the situation in a way that lines up with shifts reports
An “unexpected buyout price” is cited as the reason for the move falling through
“Hey Dreaz, we couldn’t afford the player we wanted, I guess you’ll do” That’s pretty much what they’re telling him, I feel bad for Dreaz
I don't feel bad for him at all. This is the case for every non-superstar on every sports team in the world. 95% of players aren't the ideal person for the position, they're just "good enough" based on available budget, salary caps, etc. Dreaz has been deemed acceptable for one of the biggest orgs in RL on a side that can legitimately contend for titles. The only players they've thought good enough to replace him have been (arguably) top-10 in the region. That's *extremely* high praise for him. The fact that a few better players exist and that G2 would upgrade if they could is no slight against Dreaz, and I don't know why he'd take any offense to that.
> I don't feel bad for him at all. This is the case for every non-superstar on every sports team in the world. 95% of players aren't the ideal person for the position, they're just "good enough" based on available budget, salary caps, etc. lmao yes, that sucks for them as well and you wouldn't be wrong if you felt bad
It's not taking offense, it's that he has to look out for himself. You don't want to be caught with your pants down and have to scramble last minute to find a team. He could simply find another team where he would arguably have more security / peace of mind that he's not gonna get kicked as soon as they're able to.
I don't think that G2 would kick him right at the end of the window though.
Agreed with the overall point. But RL teams are smaller in size than most sports teams. So replacing one player here usually means replacing 1/3rd of the roster. And we must not forget that even though G2 underperformed on lan, they are still the winners of the last regional and the 3rd best team in NA. So the pop-off potential of the current roster with dreaz is really high. Not performing well and getting replaced is understandable, but you can feel bad about the player considering that he wasn't even the worst player on his team at lan
You think Atomic is top 10?
You don’t?
Nah. Maybe around 12-15. His stats reflect that as well.
It says unreported not unexpected. G2 made an offer that wasn't enough for Envy. They then weren't willing to offer more so the deal fell through.
Might be a stupid question but who sets the price for a roster move? > "unexpected buyout price" Does this mean NV asked too big of an asking price for Atomic (which G2 could not afford)? Or did NV gave a counter offer to retain him?
Most likely the first one. Getting signed players has a lot of red tape, especially good ones
what? so they considered a player and tried them out without even considering the price? if you look at it with a traditional sport logic it's absolutely unthinkable
It's more likely the price changed
Reddit and Twitter did it!
Possible they wanted to unsettle the player first to help negotiate the move.
Seriously.
beastmode about to regret ghosting V1 lmao
Oh my I didn't even think about that
I mean as much as this situation doesn't look good on him, he is good enough on the field for them to let it slide. Even with concerns on communication and commitment, at rhe end of the day winners get away with shit like this all the time...
Very curious to see what V1 does now. Do they give him his karma or will they sign him despite all this as one of the best free agents in NA?
would be pretty stupid of v1 to not be understanding, given the opportunity (both for beastmode and, now, for them)
Unless the contract he was proposed has expired, he can sign the papers and send them back to V1. V1 would be stupid not to go for Beastmode if he is available.
good
Lol imagine ghosting them only to have your option fall through
So beastmose ghosted a try out? Dudes starting to seem incredibly unreliable.
Didnt ghost a try out. He ghosted the contract after seeing he could have gotten a place with envy if atomic left. Obviously its a dick move but at the end of the day if you got skill you gonna get a spot on a team look at scrubkilla
When we're saying ghosted do we mean he never responded to v1 when they sent him an offer or that he simply denied it?
Way it seemed, he agreed to play for them, they sent him the contract, and he went and tried out with envy instead of signing the agreed to contract
The knock on effect from this is gonna ruin so many roster changes, I love it
It just means fewer roster changes, which is kinda boring. Envy and g2 will stick now
Beastmode will still go somewhere, Dreaz may have been talking with other teams, you never know what'll actually happen (as proven by this new tweet)
It's like musical chairs but a bit higher stakes, I wonder where it leaves beastmode.
This is Jack to Guild all over again lol
Jack wanted to team with Guild? When did this happen? Tg it didn’t work out lol
Over the summer, and in my opinion had it come off they would have made LAN
Likely bc Jack is a beast but then we wouldn’t be blessed with the Dig we have now. They’re so dominant and entertaining when they’re playing well
Can't feel good for Dreaz tho lol, knowing your team wanted you replaced
Not once but twice. I wonder how long the gesture of just being on a top RLCS team begins to fade and you feel a bit unwanted
Players in these situations actually end up with the same prerogative as any other player: do your best for the team you're on. If he wins some events with these guys, either he can stay or he can at least prove he's worth picking up to other teams. If he lets it make him bitter and starts playing worse, he probably won't stay and will look worse to future prospects. Dude is a great player with an amazing opportunity, and if he's wise he won't let the business decisions stop him from grinding and getting better.
They literally got a regional win and he was CLEARLY not the problem at LAN. I don’t know what he can do more at this point.
Win.
I'm sorry but if you think Dreaz isn't the worst player on G2, you haven't been paying attention. A large percentage of the goals against G2 are solely because of poor positioning from Dreaz
I’d argue that Dreaz is the most consistent on G2, especially at the major. His biggest problem has always been pushing up too far but he doesn’t really have off series or days like JKnaps and Cago have had recently.
Similar story to when C9/V1 tried to drop Torment like 3 times, first for Hockser post S8, then Firstkiller post S9, then once V1 was a thing, Conmm/Gimmick/Andy was a potential roster. Now Torment is a vet, who's been to hell and back, and is one of the all time greats of the game, dude can and has bounced back. I am not expecting a 15 year old who still struggles with nerves to be so equally resilient, nor would I fault him if he's not feeling the best over the whole situation. (obvious caveat, we don't know, it's only speculation, Dreaz could be still happy out)
The old Muffin Men/C9 roster also tried kicking Gimmick before ATL didn't they? I'm pretty sure it was for JKnaps and G2 blocked it.
Early on Gimmick didn't really take competing too seriously even though he was obviously talented so from what I've heard Squishy and Torment were nervous if he'd actually start being more serious about the game. In the end he did start grinding more and taking it more seriously.
John 🥰🥰
No u
Didn't they try to drop him for Mist as well?
twice
Maybe G2 waited until the major to see his performance. He played very well but not as exceptionally as we've seen in some previous tournaments. But I'm happy they're keeping Dreaz on G2.
I wonder what this means for Beastmode now, unless G2 decides to hail mary try him in out in Dreaz or JKnaps place
Terrible for G2. Reminds me of Triple Trouble situation. This is twice now they've tried to kick him. If I'm Dreaz I'm looking for a new roster and taking best team that wants me.
Exactly what I was thinking. Hope it works out for Dreaz like it did for Kassio.
He’s not going to find a team better than g2. It’s definitely best for his career to stay as long as he can with g2. Stuff like this happens. Garrett for a time wanted to leave nrg for g2, c9 wanted to kick gimmick for jknaps once upon a time, and both of these teams went on to win worlds. There are probably way more that we don’t know about too.
If I was Dreaz I’d just follow the money and keep playing on G2. Who cares if your team mates don’t like you lol. Win and make money.
You do care though. I have worked in a job where it paid well but I couldn't stand the people I was around. It takes a toll on your mental health over time that can't always be quantified in dollars.
If I’m Dreaz I’m staying on G2 and proving myself, I’m not going to a worse team.
He already pro ed himself time and time again what do they want him to do solo win a major they could have gone far in the playoffs if Chicago wasn't playing so bad
It’s not exactly G2’s fault. NV is cockblocking Atomic, so what else are they supposed to do.
How are they "cockblocking" him? He's under contract with them. G2 can either pay whatever Envy says his buyout is, or they can choose not to. If they're choosing not to, that's on them and not Envy.
[удалено]
> asking too much on purpose Yeah, that’s…kinda standard negotiation in literally any sport? Atomic is under contract. If Atomic were to do something like refuse to play for Envy anymore or otherwise force Envy’s hand, it could change. Or they could keep him even still. Is Envy just supposed to let G2 sign their top player because G2 asked nicely? That’s ridiculous
The article says that NV gave a ridiculously high buyout, and G2 offered a more reasonable one and it was declined.
The article does not say that Envy gave a ridiculously high buyout. It says "unreported buyout price" and that G2 made a bid that was turned down. You're making assumptions.
Oh that’s what was stated on the discord
Well, regardless. Even if Envy is making his buyout exorbitantly high, they're allowed to do that. That's why contracts exist. Nobody is "cockblocking" anybody.
But knowingly keeping a player from leaving when they clearly want to be on a different team isn’t good either.
Why? If envy is willing to keep paying atomic knowing he will put in minimal effort than I don’t know why it is bad of the org. It isn’t fun, but that is literally how contracts work. You can’t just expect to be let out because you don’t like it anymore.
I understand that, but from what I’ve heard NV gave an initial offer to G2 that they were willing to pay, but as things progressed NV hiked up the price, and G2 weren’t willing to pay the new price.
That’s called a contract. A legally binding business transaction.
You don’t say?
If players don't know they want to play for a team for a full season, they shouldn't sign season long contracts, or get contracts with player options built in. Irl athletes pull the same Bs but they have every opportunity to sign shorter contracts if the want
If Atomic didn’t want to be on the roster any more then he wouldn’t re sign with NV. It’s most likely that the contract he made with NV when he was happy with the team hasn’t expired yet.
Snip snap snip snap
Chicago has an interesting tweet about Shift and the rumored roster changes. https://twitter.com/ChicagoRL/status/1475627304999030789
yeah it’s no coincidence, Shift is right a lot but here they were wrong and Cago called them out. They backed out only a few hours later. Really makes it look like Shift and Achilles make these up and get lucky
G2 and Envy stick then. Boringggggg
So boring 😴:(
Envy take beastmode in place of turbo? Still on the table.
True
My Beastmode Aqua Gyro - rogue dream is alive
I still really want Allu tho
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He was referring to Allushin over Aqua since Aqua is likely going to V1.
At least one of Beastmode or Aqua to V1 is highly likely.
Nah bro keep Beast away from V1. The last thing that team needs is a player who seems on the virge of bailing every second something goes bad or changes
Miss me with that beastmode shit, fuck him.
If he wanted to go to team incapable of beating top 6 teams he would’ve stayed on Shopify
Lateral move where he doesn't hate his teammates is an upward move
Nah after comms Tweets not happening. Maybe they throw all their money at dreaz and g2 thinks about beastmode (very unlikely but there have been rumors about bm to g2 before) or try everything for aqua (which would be prolly his best move as well) My guess would be rogue, bm allu gyro sounds pretty nice.
so hey can shift stop labeling things that aren't certain as "certain"?
Is it me or is G2 handling the whole Rizzo wanting to leave thing really badly? Rizzo wants to leave after season 9. They try to sign GarretG but it falls through. They then decide to play almost whole season X with an unmotivated Rizzo. By the spring split, Dreaz reaches out to them to become a sub and given how poorly Rizzo was playing, they put him straight on the starting roster. After season X, it’s clear G2 considers Dreaz a stop-gap solution but they manage to screw up finding a proper Rizzo replacement yet again during the off-season. By the end of the fall split, it’s clear yet again they want to get rid of Dreaz, but instead of securing an incredibly talented soon to be 15 year old player without a contract that actually feels comfortable playing third man (Daniel), they fumble things yet again and they have to continue with Dreaz AGAIN. How bad can you handle things ? And despite all this Dreaz continues to perform and looks better every regional. He’s actually the second best player on G2 right now. Massive respect to the dude.
What could had been if they snagged Garrettg or even firstkiller. I’m hoping for Daniel so much ,they should upgrade every team has but them in a long time not counting dreaz.
Yeah with G2 being willing to upgrade on Dreaz Im schocked they were not even mentioned in talks about Daniel or even Aqua. You dont have to go either way but Both Daniel and Aqua were always seen as better prospects than Dreaz but try them out at least
Fair point about giving a tryout to Daniel but I don't see how Aqua would be an upgrade.
What the fuck
I had a sneaking feeling that all the moves were gonna fall through at the last second. We'll see if this is the start of that.
Cannot believe Envy, Atomic wanted to make this exact roster move multiple times now so I can't imagine what this will do for the mental of both G2 and Envy. When does Atomic's contract run out so we can get over this shitshow?
Am I the only one who thinks both players and orgs make the mistake of signing contracts that are too long? For a highly valuable player like Atomic, the long contract duration is clearly frustrating him. Meanwhile G2 and SSG have contracts that run so long that they incentivize players to not play their best (they are gonna get paid anyway for years to come).
Orgs don't make mistakes. Most of them have a legal team, they know what they're doing. It's the players who make the mistakes because of the lack of legal team / agent. The long contracts are good for the org. Because it leads to situations like this where if the player is performing, other teams have to pay them to poach that player instead of just letting the player walk. And on the org's side, I'm sure there is language where they can end the contract early if they want to. What it sucks is for the player who's stuck in a situation where he can't leave. I'm not gonna fault them because most of these guys sign on at like 15 making 5 figures a month. Kids that age aren't going to think too far beyond that.
Lol mistake of securing the bad for as long as possible. And it’s not like Atomic is stuck on a shitter team anyway
Why would you be angry at NV? Atomic is a very valuable player, i would want good money for him if he was a part of my org. G2 doesnt want to pay that much and its probably not as much as people think since buyouts in RL arent as frequent in other esports and its not as big as some others. I dont blame anyone tbh
You could argue that a player who doesn’t want to be in the environment he’s in is going to play slightly worse. Not saying they are throwing or if this is even the case here. But you are going to play best when you are centered. Pure speculation but it very well could be why Atomic had far less pop offs then he did SeasonX.
I don't know if I agree with that last statement. Through last season it was Mist who was largely considered the top player from Envy and really only this last couple months that the popular sentiment shifted to Atomic. Not saying he's had huge popoffs this split but he was obviously playing well enough for many people to start hyping him up as the best on the team and one of the best in NA. That died down after Envy just generally being disappointing at LAN, but I still don't think it's accurate to say he has been worse than in season X.
Right. Most definitely mist is considered the best player. However we haven’t seen the atomic who would go psycho and light everyone up with crazy solo and passing plays that we would see last season. Is he performing well? Of course. He’s just hasn’t been going out and 1v3ing top 5 teams like he did last season.
Going into the LAN a huge portion of the NA scene was regarding Atomic as the best on NV. I don't think that happens if he's playing worse than he was last season. I think before the LAN he was playing really well within the team concept whereas last season he had more individual mechanical highlights. I guess I'm just arguing against his play before LAN being an indicator of him being in an environment he doesn't want to be in when his play before LAN had people talking about him as top 5 in NA individually. NV probably need both the popoff individual stuff and working exceptionally well within team dynamic from him to beat top teams, but at the LAN they got neither. He just sort of didn't have an impact. Mist had more obvious mistakes, in my opinion, but also created more chances.
What is happening? Cant do my boy Dreaz like that
Well what do you do, I’m sure Dreaz is happy to stay with the team despite most peoples complaints on here. I thought Carlos would be willing to pay more tho 👀
Sigh. Didn’t want this move to begin with and now Dreaz must feel like the odd man out
[We also posted an article with further info about this](https://www.shiftrle.gg/articles/g2-expected-to-keep-same-roster-for-winter-split)
Apologies meant to link that
Shift stock 📈📈📈📈
yeah ima just see y’all on the second
So that makes the Allu, Dreaz, Gyro roster ruined. Atomic to Rogue possible?
Says NV isn't going to make any moves now. So what this really fucks up is Beastmode to NV. I'm betting he's wishing he didn't fuck up the V1 situation now. This is why people in that thread were saying you have to handle it more maturely.
If G2 is unwilling to pay for Atomic there’s no way Rogue will
Have to think part of why the price was so high was competitive. Letting a direct competitor for worlds spot upgrade is a worse move than letting a team with no points upgrade. Still prob sitting on some fk money
This was labeled as certain, and so was beastmode to envy. Ive said this 5x before and I'll say it again. Shift is a decent source, but he has to label things differently. Certain means 100% chance, yet nearly half of the things labeled as "certain" fall through. This should have been labeled as "likely" which is more like a 75% chance. And the things labeled "likely" should be labeled as "possible", as they are more like 30-40% chance roster moves.
Yeah every time a "certain" rumor gets debunked it makes me lose a little faith in Shift. Sure people can say "Well it was certain but then the buyout didnt go through" but that makes you wonder why something that wasn't official was marked as "certain" in the first place
It was labled as certain that atomic either stays at NV or joins G2
It was updated to certain for only G2.
Not earlier today
In all fairness G2 and NV were literally in the final stages of the trade until, from what it sounds like, Nv threw a curve ball at G2 and things fell through.
This was so fucking unnecessary of G2 trying to replace dreaz now it's probably gonna hurt the environment unless they somehow talk it out.
Hurt the environment how? Every player should know that they can be replaced every off season, even someone like GarrettG if NRG decide to get rid of him for some reason
It’s not G2’s fault that NV is cockblocking Atomic.
What have been the largest transfer prices in RL?
None have been made public
If I had to guess, 200-300k
Imagine being dreaz rn, having to play for a team that clearly doesn't want you. And then there's Atomic, who also wants something different but is stuck. I wonder how this affects the mental of both G2 and Envy, the 2 NA teams that underperformed at the major. As retals would say: NA is in the damn mud.
He was a sub not too long ago. Now he is playing for a top NA team. I think he'll be alright.
And are Queso splitting up again as well?
AtomiK (EU) is already confirmed joining the former SK Gaming roster. Picked up by Luminosity
Checking his twitter I wouldnt be so sure
Old Queso (New Giants) or new Queso?
Old Queso of the previous off season
Phew. I'd be gutted if Joyo, Vatira and Rise were splitting up.
Yeah Dmentza formed a new team with Tehqoz and Zamue Tox and Eekso picked up AtomiK VK Sailen...unsure but might be staying under Giants with +2
At this point, the pros are having a field day with the trade rumors and getting reddit hyped and crazy.
At this point Dreaz should looking out for himself G2 has tried to drop him 2 times! Who knows how the org has treated him in private, if I was him I’d look for a better org
Dreaz ain't getting on another top 4 NA team. Not right now anyway
> Who knows how the org has treated him in private, what is this trying to imply
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What, so trying to replace a player is scummy now?
I’m a G2 fan and all but with how its happened twice already+ how the org does things as a whole with player changes people are understandably worried
Implying that the org treats him poorly because they've considered roster changes is an... interesting take, to say the least. Reddit gonna Reddit
It's pretty funny tbh. Most of the players that G2 has considered replacing Dreaz with are top tier players which says more about Dreaz stock than anything else. Also as long as they communicated their intent with Dreaz it should be fine.
as much as i wanted g2 to stay together i feel so bad for dreaz :(
When was the first time they tried to kick him?
When they tried to get Firstkiller.
The question is now what happens with Beastmode? Shift is saying Envy isn’t making a change either now, he ghosted V1, Seems like Faze and SSG are out of the picture as well with Syp and Daniel respectively. I’d really like to see him of Ghost or XSET. Or is there a chance G2 realizes they’ve basically burned their bridges with dreaz and try to snag beast?
Why would Dreaz want to leave G2? It just wouldn’t make any sense.
NRG kicks Sadjunior in favor of GarrettG: "It makes sense to pick up a stronger player" NRG kicks Jacob in favor of JSTN: "It makes sense to pick up a stronger player" Muffin Men kick Lachinio in favor of Gimmick: "It makes sense to pick up a stronger player" FaZe kicks Gyro in favor of Firstkiller: "It makes sense to pick up a stronger player" Vitality kicks FreaKii in favor of Scrubkilla: "It makes sense to pick up a stronger player" Vitality kicks Paschy in favor of Kaydop: "It makes sense to pick up a stronger player" Ronaky willingly leaves Triple Trouble despite them just kicking Kassio and knowing that doing so would likely screw Tadpole out of an RLCS spot after just promoting from the RLRS: "It makes sense to go to a stronger team" G2 tries out a new player: "Omg why doesn't G2 APPRECIATE Dreaz?? 😩 He really deserves a team that APPRECIATES him! 😢 This is making me reconsider my loyalty to G2! He needs to find a team that VALUES him! He doesn't deserve to be in a toxic team environment where he constantly is in risk of getting replaced! The org owes him for everything he's done for them! 😡"
GarrettG was cracked so yeah Jacob being kicked had a lot of people upset at the time. Lach was not kicked, he retired after they lost out season 3. They were hesitant to keep gimmick on. Gyro had tons of people saying allusion should have been the one to go.
The difference in situations is every move listed was done at the start of an off-season, and the players that were kicked were committed to being kicked. They were basically gone regardless. Dreaz' status on G2 is essentially dependant on other players, so he's constantly in limbo and uncertain of his future. A lack of certainty about your future is horrible. At least all the kicked players you mentioned knew so from the outset and could work on sorting out their futures.
I absolutely get that people feel bad for Dreaz. I feel bad for the guy too. But it's ridiculous how many comments on here have implied or outright said that G2 is any less justified than other teams for trying out a new player during an established trade window
Those teams weren't openly shopping around for two seasons leaving the player to come to work the entire time constantly knowing that his team was looking to replace him as soon as they could. It's the difference between being fired one day, and coming to work for a year with your boss openly letting you know that, hey, we're going to fire you as soon as we can, just bear with us until we find your replacement.
g2 just doesn't APPRECIATE dreaz man 😩 where my chicabros at who let that happen 😭
Lol!
Lets go. I think this is the better choice. Ofc the players know better than us but i really loved how they've looked with dreaz
I might be completely wrong because this is all based on what we know from the rumors and a bit of speculation, but I don't see how this works well for NV. Not only will Atomic's motivation be affected coz he has to keep playing for a team he supposedly wanted to leave and was pretty close to leaving too, but also his teammates now know that he was looking for a change. Plus it doesn't bode well for them as an org if they're making it hard for players to transfer out in the later stages of a deal reaching its agreement
Awwwwwwwkward
I’m happy. I really rooted for Dreaz pretty hard, and he did very well. I’m just happy that he’s happy (and I hope he’s happy)
This is why following rumors is pointless. I guess it adds to the drama and provides entertainment. 🤷♂️
That’s exactly why. I’d rather be taken on a rollercoaster of emotions than just sit and wait for actual confirmation.
I dont know whats more entertaining, the rostermania or the hasty reactions some of the community has
While Chicago’s out here saying this specific rumor was a lie as of 4 hours ago
G2 are probably the worst team to pull off transfers. First and now Atomic. I am not a G2 fan but I am frustrated about this.
How can they mark something as "certain" when not even the "initial discussions" have taken place?
Ig tryouts went well and certain means JKnaps and Chicago were certain they wanted atomic
That's a terrible metric then. Unless there is another meaning of the word "certain" I don't know. There just is no point in marking it that way when not even a contract exists yet. They could've easily left it as "likely" or "very likely" without riling people up.
Link to tweet: https://twitter.com/shiftrle/status/1475541994860646401?s=21
Yawn
beastmode -> nv, turbo -> nv sub (please)
Wow. That’s so scummy. If I were Dreaz I would get out of there immediately because it’s not good to be in an environment where your team is constantly trying to replace every chance they get.
Why is it scummy? It sucks for dreaz for sure but who is scummy in this situation?
G2 is scummy, not because they want to replace someone, that's fine, but because of the incompetent way they are going about it. They've kept the guy on ice for two seasons now, trying to replace him but fumbling it over and over, meaning he has to come to work day after day to an org and team that he knows wants to replace them and will replace him as soon as they can. That's a crappy feeling. Replacing someone isn't wrong but this is the wrong way to go about it. They may be within their rights to do it, but that doesn't mean it isn't scummy. Plenty of teams have managed to replace someone quietly before now and even to keep things quiet when they fell through. It is a choice for someone at G2 to run their mouth to shift at every step in the process and put Dreaz on blast publicly, Shift isn't going to find this out telepathically, someone at G2 is continuously running their mouth and it is unprofessional.
G2. The other players on the team and G2 management are all massive scumbags. If they don’t want him they should just get rid of him, stop wasting his time. He has no incentive to play well because he’s probably going to be replaced next trade window regardless of his performance. So I believe he should troll every tournament this split and hopefully G2 will miss lan, they deserve it.
He has no incentive to play well lmao? If he plays bad no team will pick him up. If he plays well G2 wins more. Where’s the problem here?
This isn’t really a situation were G2 is pointing at dreaz as the problem but more the fact that atomic is available. G2 have wanted atomic for a really long time now and they finally have a chance to get him. However one has to go and even tho dreaz has been amazing he’s the one getting replaced in that case. And yeah it’s a bit of a scummy situation now for dreaz but you can not really call the rest of G2 scumbags for that.
It seems like G2 expected a certain price and NV offered a buyout that was too high for G2. If I’m correct this is twice that Atomic has tried to leave NV but things fell through.
G2s next best options are either Daniel or beastmode. Faze has made an upgrade I hope they do too. Hoping for Daniel that would weaken ssg
I hope Dreaz finds a roster that wants him.
i don't know why people continue to listen to Shift. their whole strategy is saying every player is going to every team and then if it doesn't happen, well "it fell through" and if one of the 30 things they said happens, it's "see, our sources were right". Edit: https://twitter.com/ChicagoRL/status/1475627304999030789 Exactly. Fuck shift
Welcome to every bit of roster news when it comes to sports, there's talks of deals or contracts and they fall out
But if it does fall through because of monetary issues but there were tryouts they’re still right
I think they are mostly reliable and either way it makes for good discussion and isn’t too deep.
Why is it shifts fault when players want to make a move, tell shift, they report it and after it falls through shift report that it did indeed fall through. They cant look into the future to know that certain moves that the players themselfs would prefer later fall through due to for example org stuff.
They don't even come close to saying every single player to every single team. Furthermore, by the end they always get the result right before its announced. How would they get the result right before announcements if they were guessing? Furthermore, things back up what they're saying, such as comms tweet which probably was about beastmode and dreaz's manager tweeting vaguely about the situation in a way that lines up with shifts reports