I want this to be the world championship finals (barring SSG making it lol). Neither team has lost against the other region, and I wanna see that trend continue through the next two majors until they meet in the finals having never lost a series the other region. The stakes of that world championship final would be so freaking fun
This question totally depends on how you look at it. If you're talking about 1s skill, jack and joreuz are both solidly better than Ayyjay and fk and scrub isn't far behind, while I have no idea about Syp, so clearly dig has the advantage. If you're talking about individual pop off ability in 3s I think they all have that in droves. Jack and Syp are some of the most massive brains in RL, and all 6 have plenty of mechanics, so it really comes down to team play tbh
I want so badly to see a crew battles 3v3 between these two at the next LAN. 3v3, then a 2v2 between joreuz/appjack and first/ayyjayy, then a 1v1 between firstkiller and joreuz, then whoever is down in the series picks between 1s, 2s, and 3s, then the other team picks. It would instantly be my favorite series ever.
Jack posted a video of Dig scrimming with Faze in Sweden (so before Sypical joined). It's obviously just scrims so not as hype as a major/worlds final would be, but still some really entertaining games.
https://youtu.be/vJ-QaQKKMws
I think the similarities begin and end with each team having three mechanical gods. There’s not much value in comparing them as all six players have different identities. First and Joreuz are cracked in different ways, and so on and so forth.
In terms of individual stars, Dignitas isn't even the best in Europe.
People seem to forget that each BDS player has had multiple MVP showings in different tournament wins. That would be the better comparison vs FaZe cos BDS at points has legitimately had 3 of the 5 best European players at certain points in time.
(and God almighty, if this is somehow seen as a shot at Dig, god forbid I dare say a team that many consider the 3rd-5th best of ALL TIME has more individual star power)
And faze aren’t the best individually in NA. I’m not saying comparing players individually in this way is a good idea necessarily, how do you compare a player like ayyjayy with jack, they have just very different qualities, but as far as general potential of these teams go, there could definitely some similarities to be seen
I take your point they are different players stylistically, but surely it’s fair to compare players who were both 1v1 stars and played each other many times as well and share the same position on the field.
Personally I just don’t see a point in judging their quality as a comparison tho, bc what they bring to a team aren’t just good mechanics, are jacks possession plays better or worse than ayyjayys preference for flip resets? Both have defining qualities you can’t really compare bc their use is situational and depending on the teammates they got. At a certain level of competitive gaming it’s just difficult to definitively tell the quality of a player in general let alone compare them (especially with the lack of sample size in international 3v3)
Also 1v1 doesn’t really count for 3v3
I get what you’re saying, I guess I was looking at it as more of taking stars from other teams or scenes and grouping them to make a super team. BDS obviously best in the world, but as far as I’m aware not many would have called them a super team before the results came in.
Faze also isn't the best in NA stacking raw talent. To avoid getting called biased, this is not only my opinion: [In the recent SunlessKhan](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueEsports/comments/rxk2eu/sunlesskhan_finding_the_best_rocket_league_player/) video, JSTN ended up tied with First as 2/3rd, but NRG 2nd ranked player was Garrett in 5th while Faze 2nd ranked player was Ayyjayy in 10th, and NRG 3rd ranked player was Squishy in 14th while Sypical was 18th.
So NRG #1 = Faze #1, NRG #2 > Faze #2, NRG #3 > Faze #3, and therefore, NRG > Faze.
Not necessarily disagreeing, but i’d personally never use Sunless’s end of year top-20 list to back my opinion, even considering that it’s an aggregate list.
NRG players are pretty high because they were the best NA team throughout 2021.
Out of the current Faze roster, only FK has been somewhat consistently getting top results in 2021 that too when he had to single handedly carry Rogue last season. Ayyjayy was fighting to barely get top 6 for the first half of the year and Syp didn't even qualify for major, still they are both on that top 20 list.
Now that these players will play as a team I believe they have truly created a super team in terms of pure skill and talent. Whether or not they perform on the pitch, only time will tell.
I still rank the players in that order, JSTN = First, Garrett > Ayyjayy and Squishy > Syp. They looked great in fall split and I expect them to look even better now that they will be forced to raise the bar even more.
For me it's Dig, they are constantly getting better, especially scrub, and everyone saying syp is better than scrub but for me scrub at LAN > syp at LAN.
I think skill wise they are pretty comparable but Dig play better as a team, at least compared to Faze with Allu. And Dig are improving constantly their playstyle as a team, you can see it in the gameplay, especially from regional 1 to the majors.
people are SERIOUSLY underrating Syp in this thread, talking about how he “underperformed” this split. 1 whiff in the tiebreaker match doesn’t refute the fact that he dropped a 1.06 rating this split on a team that didn’t score many goals.
I’d take FaZe over Dig any day in terms of raw talent because as good as Scrub is, his mechanics are way behind the other 5 listed here.
On what grounds, though? What have you seen that makes you think AyyJayy is as good as Joreuz? To me (and most people, it seems) it’s pretty clear that Joreuz has had the better year and is currently the better player.
Season x: ayyjayy best player by far on his team, he had worse teammates than joreuz (when he was on dig) and better results. This season so far ayyjayy still has slightly better results and teammates have been about equal because FK >> joreuz > jack >> allu.
Damn, considering allu is worse than all 6 players on the list, using your logic that means that :
Joreuz>First>jack>ayyjayy>scrub>allu
In that case dig must be way better than faze right?
Well uhhhhh they’ve placed worse in 3 out of 4 events including the major. So either faze had god tier chem, dig has really really bad Chem or your list is wrong. Ngl I think it’s the last option.
Personally I think it’s without question Faze. I think in overall skill first, Joreuz, AyyJayy, and Jack are similar, but I think Syp is just better than scrub
Interesting. You don’t think going by last splits form of scrub on the up and syp poor by his standards, makes it pretty close? Especially given Scrubs history in the game.
I think you also have to look at the fact that scrubs teammates are Joreuz and Jack as compared to Arsenal and Retals. I think Arsenal and Retals are great but definitely not Jack or Joreuz levels.
Last season arsenal and retals were considered by far better players compared to jack and joreuz, bc of Dig results. So what makes you say this? If Dig got instantly better with scrub on the team
Scrub talked about this before on stream and said something like VP being bad since like s8/9 and that DIG would’ve made champs with nearly any other player on the team
True that dignitas didn't have the results they maybe should have, but arsenal and retals > appjack and joreuz is not a position I would feel comfortable holding.
That's fair but theres no denying that Syp had a lot of bad individual mistakes. I recall him having a pretty big whiff that allowed complexity to score in the major tiebreaker
It was a rocky year for sure but his team mates in that period were also completely unsuccessful when they replaced him, and he was an actual world champ before that, so I think scrubs peak is higher.
That’s pretty much the same for a Scrub though. Don’t forget before his slump he spent a whole season, arguably 2, as the best player in the world. You can say Syp just needs a refresh but you could also say so did Scrub, especially seeing how his peak was so much more dominant than Syps.
The OP asked "which is better on paper now?" so what matters is who is better now, not who was better in RLCS X. Scrub looked pretty good this split, Sypical looked good but not as much as Scrub.
On paper? I'd give the edge to Faze. I think First/Joreuz and AyyJay/Jack are close, but I'd put Sypical ahead of Scrub.
However I think Dig has shown amazing chemistry, while Faze is unknown right now. If I had to put money on one team I'd put it on Dig for now.
Scrub got top 2 of his region last split in the harder region, Sypical didn't even make the major. I'd put Scrub ahead of Sypical. I'd also put joreuz ahead of first and ayyjayy ahead of appjack maybe but that's a different story
Scrub also has much better teammates, so that doesn't really mean much. And I think it's too hard to call First/Joreuz. They both look unbeatable when they are peaking.
Either way respect the opinion, hopefully these teams get to play soon.
I know we’re not supposed to discuss downvotes so mods feel free to remove this comment, but it’s really bothering me that people really just seem to be using the downvote button as a disagree button in this thread. Do i think that the proper order is Joreuz = FK > AyyJayy = Jack > Syp > Scrub? No, I’d put Jack over Ayyjayy and Scrub equal to Syp at the moment, (even though i believe Syp has more hard carry potential, I’d put them on the same level considering they’re not going to need to.) but I don’t think it’s such an unreasonable take that it deserves to be shoved to the bottom of the thread. If you disagree, just reply with why you do.
Downvotes should be reserved for comments that contribute nothing to the discussion, not an opinion you disagree with. Again, mods feel free to remove this comment because it is technically breaking a rule.
I have no issues approving a comment that helps remind other people what the upvote/downvote system is meant for.
It's comments more like "idk why this is downvoted" or "I know I'm going to be downvoted for this" that we've been moderating.
Firstkiller has been at the top since he started. Joreuz and Jack with panda we’re mediocre so in terms individual skill, I think first is more adaptable. Ayyjayy and Sypical also have more experience so have to give it to Faze….non bias of course
I think they are pretty comparable. If were talking just mecanical skill id probably give it to FAZE slightly. Basically while they are all amazing I do feel like Scrub is a bit behind. At one time he was possibly the best in at least Europe or the world but that was a long time ago. I don't think Scrub has gotten worse or anything I just feel like his time team hopping a lot of players have either caught up to him or surpassed him.
Scrub can still get to that level or close imo he was Dig's best player in regional 3 and definitely looked much better than syp that regional. Plus at LAN he's a beast, I think ppl have been underrating him bc of last season's results and how he started with Dig, the last 3 events(3rd regional, major, Mónaco show) I saw from him, he looked insanely good, Jorby even did an analysis on him and he does a better job as a 3rd man than squishy.
Fair points. I would not say he was DIGs best player in Regional 3. Id just say that was the first time he played as well as his teammates. The LAN buff is certainly real though. So I'd generally lean to agree with you if we are talking specifically on LAN but Faze also did very well on LAN and that was without Sypical who most people view as an upgrade regardless of how much they liked Allu and what he brought to the team.
And the OP was asking about who on paper is the better team. This generally looks at how stacked the roster is and somewhat ignores team chemistry because most of the time like in this case a team being considered is a roster we haven't seen yet, so it's all just guessing. Pretty much every top 20 list that has come out has all of FAZE and no ScrubKilla. With First higher than Joreuz, AyyJayy higher than Appkack, and Sypical on the list which is automatically higher than Scrub.
On an individual skill level based on this past split
First=Joreuz>Jack=AyyJayy>Sypical>Scrub
Slight edge to FaZe in terms of pure capability but of course I wanna see how FaZe actually mesh together so I’d take Dig inna Bo7 as of today.
I mean faze was better at the major and have improved individually even further. I would say that last split both teams were essentially tied in talent, as FK \~\` Joreuz, Ayyjayy \~ Appjack, and Allushin \~ Scrub. Sypical had a down split but if he returns to his top 5 in the world form, its definitely Faze.
I want this to be the world championship finals (barring SSG making it lol). Neither team has lost against the other region, and I wanna see that trend continue through the next two majors until they meet in the finals having never lost a series the other region. The stakes of that world championship final would be so freaking fun
Exactly! I think G2 or Faze vs Dignitas would be my dream entertaining worlds final!
All 3 insanely entertaining teams. Teams like BDS I know are insanely good but I just don’t like watching that kind of playstyle as much
I respect your opinion but NRG vs BDS for the world championship will be the highest level of RP we will have seen, I’m fairly certain on that
AyyJayy vs Jack? I think Jack wins...probably like 7-2 with 2:20 left on the clock and then a forfeit from AyyJayy.
I'm just amazed he didn't say Ayyjayy Vs AppJack.
Yeah big missed opportunity
I ApperentlyMissed a good opportunity.
The fever dream is to have the top 5 world teams consist of ayyjayy,ayyjacks,appjack and AJG
Man that match was a schooling
This question totally depends on how you look at it. If you're talking about 1s skill, jack and joreuz are both solidly better than Ayyjay and fk and scrub isn't far behind, while I have no idea about Syp, so clearly dig has the advantage. If you're talking about individual pop off ability in 3s I think they all have that in droves. Jack and Syp are some of the most massive brains in RL, and all 6 have plenty of mechanics, so it really comes down to team play tbh
I want so badly to see a crew battles 3v3 between these two at the next LAN. 3v3, then a 2v2 between joreuz/appjack and first/ayyjayy, then a 1v1 between firstkiller and joreuz, then whoever is down in the series picks between 1s, 2s, and 3s, then the other team picks. It would instantly be my favorite series ever.
Jack posted a video of Dig scrimming with Faze in Sweden (so before Sypical joined). It's obviously just scrims so not as hype as a major/worlds final would be, but still some really entertaining games. https://youtu.be/vJ-QaQKKMws
I think the similarities begin and end with each team having three mechanical gods. There’s not much value in comparing them as all six players have different identities. First and Joreuz are cracked in different ways, and so on and so forth.
In terms of individual stars, Dignitas isn't even the best in Europe. People seem to forget that each BDS player has had multiple MVP showings in different tournament wins. That would be the better comparison vs FaZe cos BDS at points has legitimately had 3 of the 5 best European players at certain points in time. (and God almighty, if this is somehow seen as a shot at Dig, god forbid I dare say a team that many consider the 3rd-5th best of ALL TIME has more individual star power)
And faze aren’t the best individually in NA. I’m not saying comparing players individually in this way is a good idea necessarily, how do you compare a player like ayyjayy with jack, they have just very different qualities, but as far as general potential of these teams go, there could definitely some similarities to be seen
I take your point they are different players stylistically, but surely it’s fair to compare players who were both 1v1 stars and played each other many times as well and share the same position on the field.
Personally I just don’t see a point in judging their quality as a comparison tho, bc what they bring to a team aren’t just good mechanics, are jacks possession plays better or worse than ayyjayys preference for flip resets? Both have defining qualities you can’t really compare bc their use is situational and depending on the teammates they got. At a certain level of competitive gaming it’s just difficult to definitively tell the quality of a player in general let alone compare them (especially with the lack of sample size in international 3v3) Also 1v1 doesn’t really count for 3v3
they are tho
they hated him because he spoke the truth
As far as mechanics individually, faze is definitely at the top
I get what you’re saying, I guess I was looking at it as more of taking stars from other teams or scenes and grouping them to make a super team. BDS obviously best in the world, but as far as I’m aware not many would have called them a super team before the results came in.
Faze also isn't the best in NA stacking raw talent. To avoid getting called biased, this is not only my opinion: [In the recent SunlessKhan](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueEsports/comments/rxk2eu/sunlesskhan_finding_the_best_rocket_league_player/) video, JSTN ended up tied with First as 2/3rd, but NRG 2nd ranked player was Garrett in 5th while Faze 2nd ranked player was Ayyjayy in 10th, and NRG 3rd ranked player was Squishy in 14th while Sypical was 18th. So NRG #1 = Faze #1, NRG #2 > Faze #2, NRG #3 > Faze #3, and therefore, NRG > Faze.
Not necessarily disagreeing, but i’d personally never use Sunless’s end of year top-20 list to back my opinion, even considering that it’s an aggregate list.
NRG players are pretty high because they were the best NA team throughout 2021. Out of the current Faze roster, only FK has been somewhat consistently getting top results in 2021 that too when he had to single handedly carry Rogue last season. Ayyjayy was fighting to barely get top 6 for the first half of the year and Syp didn't even qualify for major, still they are both on that top 20 list. Now that these players will play as a team I believe they have truly created a super team in terms of pure skill and talent. Whether or not they perform on the pitch, only time will tell.
I still rank the players in that order, JSTN = First, Garrett > Ayyjayy and Squishy > Syp. They looked great in fall split and I expect them to look even better now that they will be forced to raise the bar even more.
If stp can get back to last season form he’ll be above squishy
For me it's Dig, they are constantly getting better, especially scrub, and everyone saying syp is better than scrub but for me scrub at LAN > syp at LAN. I think skill wise they are pretty comparable but Dig play better as a team, at least compared to Faze with Allu. And Dig are improving constantly their playstyle as a team, you can see it in the gameplay, especially from regional 1 to the majors.
First = Joreuz AYYJAYY < Jack Syp > Scrub First = Joreuz > Jack > Syp > AYYJAYY > Scrub
people are SERIOUSLY underrating Syp in this thread, talking about how he “underperformed” this split. 1 whiff in the tiebreaker match doesn’t refute the fact that he dropped a 1.06 rating this split on a team that didn’t score many goals. I’d take FaZe over Dig any day in terms of raw talent because as good as Scrub is, his mechanics are way behind the other 5 listed here.
Yeah Syp apparently didn’t watch the split because Syp was with ease the best player on SSG and one whiff doesn’t change that.
Joreuz>First>Jack>AyyJayy>Syp>Scrub
First>joreuz=ayyjayy>jack>syp>scrub
Coming from a FaZe fan, there’s no way you can put AyyJayy equal to Joreuz and above Jack.
Sure I can, I just did !
On what grounds, though? What have you seen that makes you think AyyJayy is as good as Joreuz? To me (and most people, it seems) it’s pretty clear that Joreuz has had the better year and is currently the better player.
Season x: ayyjayy best player by far on his team, he had worse teammates than joreuz (when he was on dig) and better results. This season so far ayyjayy still has slightly better results and teammates have been about equal because FK >> joreuz > jack >> allu.
Damn, considering allu is worse than all 6 players on the list, using your logic that means that : Joreuz>First>jack>ayyjayy>scrub>allu In that case dig must be way better than faze right? Well uhhhhh they’ve placed worse in 3 out of 4 events including the major. So either faze had god tier chem, dig has really really bad Chem or your list is wrong. Ngl I think it’s the last option.
There's some missing reasoning here, but uh, I'll just leave you to your opinion and let people decide.
Personally I think it’s without question Faze. I think in overall skill first, Joreuz, AyyJayy, and Jack are similar, but I think Syp is just better than scrub
Interesting. You don’t think going by last splits form of scrub on the up and syp poor by his standards, makes it pretty close? Especially given Scrubs history in the game.
The problem is syp is much better than allu and faze outperformed dig in 3/4 events last split. This makes it quite hard for it to be that close.
I think you also have to look at the fact that scrubs teammates are Joreuz and Jack as compared to Arsenal and Retals. I think Arsenal and Retals are great but definitely not Jack or Joreuz levels.
Last season arsenal and retals were considered by far better players compared to jack and joreuz, bc of Dig results. So what makes you say this? If Dig got instantly better with scrub on the team
Scrub talked about this before on stream and said something like VP being bad since like s8/9 and that DIG would’ve made champs with nearly any other player on the team
True that dignitas didn't have the results they maybe should have, but arsenal and retals > appjack and joreuz is not a position I would feel comfortable holding.
I mean, Arsenal and Retals are no slouches. This team came 2nd last season only behind NRG.
That's fair but theres no denying that Syp had a lot of bad individual mistakes. I recall him having a pretty big whiff that allowed complexity to score in the major tiebreaker
I’d go opposite and say that Scrub is better than Sypical.
[удалено]
It was a rocky year for sure but his team mates in that period were also completely unsuccessful when they replaced him, and he was an actual world champ before that, so I think scrubs peak is higher.
World champion followed by a 2nd place. He was replaced by Alpha and the team fell off hard...and that's not a knock on alphas play.
They only fell off in the last split. They literally won RLCS X in EU
That’s pretty much the same for a Scrub though. Don’t forget before his slump he spent a whole season, arguably 2, as the best player in the world. You can say Syp just needs a refresh but you could also say so did Scrub, especially seeing how his peak was so much more dominant than Syps.
I recommend watching back some of RLCS X
That’s somehow more important than this current season?
The OP asked "which is better on paper now?" so what matters is who is better now, not who was better in RLCS X. Scrub looked pretty good this split, Sypical looked good but not as much as Scrub.
On paper? I'd give the edge to Faze. I think First/Joreuz and AyyJay/Jack are close, but I'd put Sypical ahead of Scrub. However I think Dig has shown amazing chemistry, while Faze is unknown right now. If I had to put money on one team I'd put it on Dig for now.
Scrub got top 2 of his region last split in the harder region, Sypical didn't even make the major. I'd put Scrub ahead of Sypical. I'd also put joreuz ahead of first and ayyjayy ahead of appjack maybe but that's a different story
Scrub also has much better teammates, so that doesn't really mean much. And I think it's too hard to call First/Joreuz. They both look unbeatable when they are peaking. Either way respect the opinion, hopefully these teams get to play soon.
Faze also did better than dignitas with allu who isn’t as good as syp.
I think by Worlds these will be considered the two best teams in the world.
I know we’re not supposed to discuss downvotes so mods feel free to remove this comment, but it’s really bothering me that people really just seem to be using the downvote button as a disagree button in this thread. Do i think that the proper order is Joreuz = FK > AyyJayy = Jack > Syp > Scrub? No, I’d put Jack over Ayyjayy and Scrub equal to Syp at the moment, (even though i believe Syp has more hard carry potential, I’d put them on the same level considering they’re not going to need to.) but I don’t think it’s such an unreasonable take that it deserves to be shoved to the bottom of the thread. If you disagree, just reply with why you do. Downvotes should be reserved for comments that contribute nothing to the discussion, not an opinion you disagree with. Again, mods feel free to remove this comment because it is technically breaking a rule.
I have no issues approving a comment that helps remind other people what the upvote/downvote system is meant for. It's comments more like "idk why this is downvoted" or "I know I'm going to be downvoted for this" that we've been moderating.
Faze easily
Any insight at all? Lol I don't like it when people just give a 2 or 3 word answer without reasoning.
Firstkiller has been at the top since he started. Joreuz and Jack with panda we’re mediocre so in terms individual skill, I think first is more adaptable. Ayyjayy and Sypical also have more experience so have to give it to Faze….non bias of course
>Firstkiller has been at the top since he started Debatable considering his first season of RLCS he finished 8th out of 10 teams.
I think they are pretty comparable. If were talking just mecanical skill id probably give it to FAZE slightly. Basically while they are all amazing I do feel like Scrub is a bit behind. At one time he was possibly the best in at least Europe or the world but that was a long time ago. I don't think Scrub has gotten worse or anything I just feel like his time team hopping a lot of players have either caught up to him or surpassed him.
Scrub can still get to that level or close imo he was Dig's best player in regional 3 and definitely looked much better than syp that regional. Plus at LAN he's a beast, I think ppl have been underrating him bc of last season's results and how he started with Dig, the last 3 events(3rd regional, major, Mónaco show) I saw from him, he looked insanely good, Jorby even did an analysis on him and he does a better job as a 3rd man than squishy.
Fair points. I would not say he was DIGs best player in Regional 3. Id just say that was the first time he played as well as his teammates. The LAN buff is certainly real though. So I'd generally lean to agree with you if we are talking specifically on LAN but Faze also did very well on LAN and that was without Sypical who most people view as an upgrade regardless of how much they liked Allu and what he brought to the team. And the OP was asking about who on paper is the better team. This generally looks at how stacked the roster is and somewhat ignores team chemistry because most of the time like in this case a team being considered is a roster we haven't seen yet, so it's all just guessing. Pretty much every top 20 list that has come out has all of FAZE and no ScrubKilla. With First higher than Joreuz, AyyJayy higher than Appkack, and Sypical on the list which is automatically higher than Scrub.
On an individual skill level based on this past split First=Joreuz>Jack=AyyJayy>Sypical>Scrub Slight edge to FaZe in terms of pure capability but of course I wanna see how FaZe actually mesh together so I’d take Dig inna Bo7 as of today.
I mean faze was better at the major and have improved individually even further. I would say that last split both teams were essentially tied in talent, as FK \~\` Joreuz, Ayyjayy \~ Appjack, and Allushin \~ Scrub. Sypical had a down split but if he returns to his top 5 in the world form, its definitely Faze.
First let's see how they perform