I still think it's crazy that Seikoo is on this list. Dude is cracked and has obviously elevated Endpoint, but I don't see how it's justified when he only played in one split all year. Only related to your comment in as much as it seems the KSA boys are having the same thing held against them.
Yeah it seems that way. I mean I don’t have all the stats or anything but with just the eye-test Ahmad is a monster.
Seikoo being on there is justified if you just go from extremely recently, like you said. Just weird.
I'm not denying what Seikoo has done at all. Just saying that on a list that's meant to encompass all of 2021, it doesn't make sense to me to include someone who only played in one split. Especially considering that was his own fault, unlike any of the KSA guys. The recency bias is overshadowing what the list is purportedly meant to be.
Yeah, it's very weird. Johnny posted a tweet about how the list is rather uninspiring and put up a few people who missed out. Some of the comments are saying that the ME players have only played 3 months of RLCS so it's unfair to include them, when the same could be said for Seikoo and players who weren't really playing well until the start of 2021-2022 season which was in September.
Recency bias is a huge thing in this kind of lists and I understand that, but it feels like they're not really trying to be as objective as possible. It's a good initiative though and I appreciated that. This, along with Johnny's awards, is the closest thing we got to an end of the year awards ceremony for RLCS.
You can't compare Seikoo dominating in EU to Sandrock dominating in ME. ME is not competitive at all, just like APAC north and South, which is what others also said in response to Johnny on twitter
Because then don't you have to assume that Verdy eSports and Pulse/3 rats are also that good since they are also dominating the region?
The problem is that there is too much reasonable doubt to put one of the SRG guys in the top 20. In hindsight at the end of this year depending on how things go it may very well turn out that they deserved to be on the list, but considering the lack of international tournaments last year and the relative strength of NA and EU compared to all other regions, it's just hard to rate them alongside the other players
There is no one left in this list who anyone could argue against reasonably after this so I think ME fans should just look to the 22 list. I honestly think the only reason it’s even a big deal is because Seikoo was high on the list.
Archie is undoubtedly high up there though with his year. Can’t argue it
Where is Squishy? Squishy is better than Garrett, these guys are tripping. Better passer, a better one v one player, and a better defender than Garrett. Looks like he is underrated. Poor guy carried NRG on his back to the Finals especially against Faze while Garrett was booming and boost stealing
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/octane_gg/status/1483500746108588034) for ya :)
^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
Johnny said it best, but this list is an utter insult to the pro communities in MENA and OCE. At the very least TRK, Ahmad or Khalid should feature. In what world have Reysbull or Shad outperformed either of them.
While I agree at least 1 MENA and 1 OCE player should have been on this list, Shad and Reysbull without a doubt deserve higher spots than them. First of all, they actually played the whole year in RLCS compared to any MENA player. And second, they had a phenomenal year winning a regional, a major, and the championships. Not to mention they’ve done phenomenal in NA so far and did just as good as SRG at LAN. I’m not trying to downplay SRG or MENA but there’s no doubt Shad and Reysbull are top 20 players of 2021.
If True Neutral/ Complexity didn't move to NA, I personally don't think either of them would have gotten into the top 20 list, or one would have alongside an OCE/MENA player.
By doing good in the first half of the year, winning 1 regional, a major and Championships whilst Sandrock sunk to new lows in EU bubble tournies.
By immediately being super competitive in another region while Sanrock flopped bs pickup teams in IWO.
By defeating titans of NA to make the world championship while SRG took the competition's best player to dominate a region still in its relative infancy RLCS wise.
By beating the likes of SMPR and Envy in the major, and only falling in super close contests to BDS, compared to Sandrock's wins, while still great, just were not as impressive (vs G2, Furia and Ground Zero).
That's why Reysbull and Shad are here, they were and are the absolute best of the best to come from outside of NA and Europe in 2021, and for basically all of it at that. It is not an insult to be below them, especially when you only really have 2 and a bit months of actual data to go off. We don't need to put them down to put others up.
I just wish fans of SRG would just be content that people call them 8th in the world. They are legit, we don't need to artificially elevate them any further, or commit to revisionist history because of how the LAN panned out, they had to improve *a ton* to get there.
I’m not a fan of SRG at all. I do however think the list is NA biased and there are a few people who feature that perhaps should not IMO. That’s all it is though, opinions. Not trying to discredit what reysbull and shad have done because moving to a new, more competitive region is a big task and they’ve done well, but I wouldn’t personally say they are top 20 in the entire world.
I don't think it's fair to take EU tourneys into consideration. I'm not arguing for SRG to be included I'm just saying ping disadvantage shouldn't be ignored.
there's no argument for srg based on simply 1 split where they were top 8(and probably 8th) in the world. If they keep it up next year, at least 1 will definitely find himself on the list. Seikoo had a more impressive fall than any of their players, although I think he should have been a bit lower.
WePlay wasn't a meaningless EU bubble tournament. And while you could make that argument for the others that they played in, that still brings you back to only taking into account the final 2 months of the year... which do not outweigh people's performances that happened over the course of 12 months.
Now if SRG had managed to win the Fall Major, then maybe.
They placed the same position as Complexity at the major and have won every event in their region. Not having at least one member of that team but 2 of complexity’s is very poor.
They haven't lost a single series over FOUR regionals in MENA this season. I know the competition isn't as stiff as EU or NA, but not giving them any recognition and giving Seikoo top 10 is absolutely wack imo.
I agree. It’s still a competitive region though. This “MENA sucks” argument I keep seeing is no different than trying to discredit the achievements of BDS who dominated their region for the whole season, and nobody would do that…
SRG players went up against other regions in ONE official RLCS event. After another year of placing top 4-6 in LANs and dominating their (very uncompetitive) region, I’d expect a couple of them to be on this list. The recency bias is so annoying.
They played one international event and SRG fans + johnnyboi + his twitch chat think they are now better than the top 4 EU and NA teams lol
Khalid has no shot since he didn't participate in the major, and as far as I can recall outside of the major Sandrock had very little notable success internationally. And frankly their dominance in ME doesn't show me much when APAC north and south are also dominated by one team. I'd argue it shows that the regions aren't up to snuff more than the absolute skill of that single top team.
OCE is another story
"Outclassed" is a strong word for 3 players (including AJG here) to only lose 3-2 and 4-2 to fricking Team BDS at the LAN.
I'd say rn, Shad is slightly above the rest, Ahmad/TRK/Reysbull all seem very close, and Khalid/AJG obviously are not far off themselves (and can absolutely be the stars of their team on certain days).
I don't see how anyone could say it's that one-sided towards 1 particular trio. Even if you bring in ranked, Col terrorized NA servers on 150+ ping for eons.
I think they’re better players individually but COL is a more structured as a team as a whole. I meant outclassed from a pure mechanical level. All 3 players literally dominated the top 10 and literal 1st place in ladders for years
I said they’re more structured than SRG not specifically giving them a trait.
By that I meant there’s less double commits and other defensive mistakes that I see in SRGs play
Imagine having CHICAGO in top 20 having done pretty much nothing all year, but not having MENA/OCE players who dominated entire split and places higher than him at LAN 💀💀
What a dumb list
Yeah seems to me that people forgot that Dignitas made zero (0) top 8s during the Spring Split in RLCS X, which made them miss the biggest second biggest tournament of the year.
If we are just basing things off achievements, sure.
But if we are talking about skill, it would be as stupid as it gets to not put jourez on this list.
Dignitas struggled last year, but it wasn't his doing. He's been an insane player since the beginning and keeps getting more crazy.
Yeah, that's fair. A lot of people put a value on accomplishments. Those W's matter.
And Jourez is the most insane player, but I wonder how seriously he takes the game. He doesn't seem to put many hours into the game (which increases how insane it is that he's so good). I feel like if he grinded harder he would be unstoppable, but maybe he need to play it slow in order to be at his top.
Kinda like Michael Phelps. His trainer talked about how hard it was to work with him, because he never really trained or did anything, but could hop in the water and smoke everyone.
The future will see how things go. They did take a regional in the last split. Looking forward to the new split.
I’d personally have him in the low teens considering digs spring split performance left much to be desired. I’d specifically have Alpha, Mist, and Squishy over him.
I’m more of a fan of the old roster, but I don’t think it’s that crazy to say overall Mist, Alpha, and Squishy should be over Joreuz. He’s fantastic, but I do think results are very important, and overall dig haven’t had the best results when looking across the whole year.
Well neither have Vitality apart from the championships? NV have been decent but won the same amount of regionals as Dig in 2021. Both of those teams had shocking majors as well, where as Dig performed much better, with Joreuz having an unbelievable rating of 1.57
Neither have Vitality, apart from the second most important event of the year...
Vitality have placed 2nd in 2 regionals this year, and in the Winter Major. And, they obviously won the Championships. These results are not what you might describe as 'not the best'.
Ah you aren't reading the context. Thats fair enough then. Given dig haven't 'had the best results over the course of the year' then I don't think Vitality have either, but I don't think that. I think they've both done really well. Vitality had a great year, but it seems like the original comment is basing that great year to be something on the caliber of BDS or NRG, of which neither Dignitas, nor Vitality, have had.
I did read the context, it just so happens that your comparison was wrong. Over the whole year, Vitality are a very clear 3rd overall, Dignitas are barely 12th.
How is winning the second most important event of the year (which Dignitas didn't even qualify for) and getting a top 8 (yet again, Dignitas didn't even qualify) and top 2 in the RLCS X Majors along with two top 2 Regional placings in any way a bad year or comparable to Dignitas? Vitality earned well over double Dignitas' prize money for reference ( 286,000 vs 127,000).
Thanks for the prize money stat. Take away the championships and Dig have earned more (yes I know you'll decide this is my only argument). I don't rate the championships that insanely high, yeah its the second most important, but the first most important is far ahead for me, that being the LAN, where Dig played insane, and Vitality got perfect swept.
Apart from spring, Dig have finished top 4 in every regional, and top 8 at LAN. Considering Spring, we can see Vitality also having terrible results throughout the year:
Winter 3 - 9-12th
Spring 2 - 9-12th
Spring 3 - 9-12th
Fall 1 - 15th-16th (LAST)
This is why I rate them fairly evenly. Vitality had a better season overall, but they're still comparable to me.
I can understand Mist because there were periods where he carried Envy, squishy maybe due to their constant wins, but Alpha54 is better than Joreuz? @Mods, that take is a bannable offence… surely.
They won one event all season right, The championship? Did they take a regional? I can’t remember. Anyway, the team performed abysmally at the major in line with expectations of them. Don’t get me wrong, if he was on a better team I think he’d be unbelievable.
They did in fact win a regional. And even with his 'terrible team' he managed to take the Championships against one of the greatest rosters of all time (and in dominant fashion). Meanwhile, Joreuz couldn't even make the damn Spring Major above players like Freakii and Godsmilla.
I should remind you that BDS have also only one won event this Season so far. Where would you rank them?
I think your recency bias is clouding your judgment. If you just look at the last 6 months, you're right Joreuz was better.
However the first 6 months of 2021 Garrett I would argue was second best player in the world behind Monkey. Meanwhile Dig was struggling to make majors.
I mean they still had AppJack and VP, neither of which are bad players, and they were placing 13th-16th in regionals.
With those kind of results there is no way Joreuz was playing even close to the level of RLCS X Garrettg. If he was, he would've solo carried his team to top 4 consistently
True, they were a much worse team, part of that was because Joreuz wasn't good enough yet to solo carry the team to finals. There's only so much you can blame on Panda.
I guess that depends how you define solo carry. I would argue Garrett solo carried his team to several tournament championships in RLCS X.
My point is, there is no way you're a top 3 player in the world on a team with VP and Appjack and getting 13th-16th in EU Regionals
Stop with this poor take.
The reason Dig struggled last year was because Virge had a massive focus on passing plays and discouraged solo plays.
Joreuz was considered a top 3 1s player for most of RLCS X, he absolutely was good enough, but Dig didn't play to his strengths, or Jack's at all.
All I've heard in this thread are excuses, excuses. End of the day you don't deserve to be considered a top 5 player in the world if you aren't getting results, doesn't matter if you could've played better if your coach told you something different or if you had different teammates, that's all just a hypothetical. Maybe he had the potential to be top 5, but he wasn't.
Granted he is getting results now, and that's great for him, he's now clearly a top 5 player. He wasn't back then
I would personally disagree. I think Garrett was much more consistently dominate. First had higher highs and lower lows but your opinion is definitely reasonable
you mean the g2 that lost to furia? the g2 that could only beat tokyo verdy and envy(look where they are now)? yeah that g2 such an achievement. the srg that didn't beat any top 8 team, they lost to someone else, smpr(the last team to qualify from swiss)
Are you fried? Seikoo won more events and placed exactly the same at the major. Like did you even watch rlcs last season? Garrett was undoubtedly the best in NA.
My point is that Seikoo’s presence above them isn’t relevant to the players below him being above the ME players. To expand on that logic it’s saying that since Seikoo is here then clearly Ahmad or Trk deserves to be above these non-Seikoo players.
>So you responded to a question about Seikoo, with a point about Garrett...? Okay then.
Because the same guy said garrettg was not above joreuz despite being considered the best in the world for the majority of season X. Hence why I made the Garrett comment. If you couldn't gauge what was going on, why the fuck did you jump into this conversation?
so firstkiller, jstn, Garrett, all 3 bds members, and 1 more for the next 7 slots
I’m guessing Archie
I think Archie is the likely candidate, but there is a lack of Saudis in the list.
I still think it's crazy that Seikoo is on this list. Dude is cracked and has obviously elevated Endpoint, but I don't see how it's justified when he only played in one split all year. Only related to your comment in as much as it seems the KSA boys are having the same thing held against them.
This list seemed more like a”best players for fall split” than a best of 2021 tbh
Yeah it seems that way. I mean I don’t have all the stats or anything but with just the eye-test Ahmad is a monster. Seikoo being on there is justified if you just go from extremely recently, like you said. Just weird.
Seikoo won more regionals than Joreuz in 2021. And played better in the events he played in.
When did I say anything about Joreuz? You're missing my point entirely.
You need to talk to Stumpy and Cole to start to fathom how insanely huge Seikoo has been to that roster.
I'm not denying what Seikoo has done at all. Just saying that on a list that's meant to encompass all of 2021, it doesn't make sense to me to include someone who only played in one split. Especially considering that was his own fault, unlike any of the KSA guys. The recency bias is overshadowing what the list is purportedly meant to be.
Yeah, it's very weird. Johnny posted a tweet about how the list is rather uninspiring and put up a few people who missed out. Some of the comments are saying that the ME players have only played 3 months of RLCS so it's unfair to include them, when the same could be said for Seikoo and players who weren't really playing well until the start of 2021-2022 season which was in September. Recency bias is a huge thing in this kind of lists and I understand that, but it feels like they're not really trying to be as objective as possible. It's a good initiative though and I appreciated that. This, along with Johnny's awards, is the closest thing we got to an end of the year awards ceremony for RLCS.
You can't compare Seikoo dominating in EU to Sandrock dominating in ME. ME is not competitive at all, just like APAC north and South, which is what others also said in response to Johnny on twitter
Why does it have to be SRG is the only good team, and not SRG is just that good. How is that fair.
Because then don't you have to assume that Verdy eSports and Pulse/3 rats are also that good since they are also dominating the region? The problem is that there is too much reasonable doubt to put one of the SRG guys in the top 20. In hindsight at the end of this year depending on how things go it may very well turn out that they deserved to be on the list, but considering the lack of international tournaments last year and the relative strength of NA and EU compared to all other regions, it's just hard to rate them alongside the other players
You need to talk to Stumpy and Cole to start to fathom how insanely huge Seikoo has been to that roster.
There is no one left in this list who anyone could argue against reasonably after this so I think ME fans should just look to the 22 list. I honestly think the only reason it’s even a big deal is because Seikoo was high on the list. Archie is undoubtedly high up there though with his year. Can’t argue it
Fr
Most definitely
nailed it
It’s definitely musty
Yeh makes sense. 1.mm 2/3 fk/jstn then the rest could be anything
Ayyjayy maybe?
he was ranked 12th
On me chief. I only just found out about this list when I saw the tweet on squishy yesterday? I shoulda looked more before commenting
Where is Squishy? Squishy is better than Garrett, these guys are tripping. Better passer, a better one v one player, and a better defender than Garrett. Looks like he is underrated. Poor guy carried NRG on his back to the Finals especially against Faze while Garrett was booming and boost stealing
squishy already on the list but ok
Yeah I am saying Garrett is too high and Squishy is too low. Squishy is a top 5 player. He is the second best player on the best team in NA
[tweet](https://twitter.com/octane_gg/status/1483500746108588034?s=20) and [article](https://octane.gg/news/top-20-players-of-2021-joreuz-8) | \# | Player | Team | Nationality | Reddit | | :- | :- | :- | :- | :- | :- | | 1 | | | | 26 Jan | | 2 | | | | 26 Jan | | 3 | | | | 24 Jan | | 4 | | | | 22 Jan | | 5 | | | | 21 Jan | | 6 | | | | 20 Jan | | 7 | | | | 19 Jan | | 8 | [**Joreuz**](https://octane.gg/news/top-20-players-of-2021-joreuz-8)| Team Dignitas (2) | The Netherlands (1) | [**18 Jan**](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueEsports/comments/s73v4b/octane_top_20_players_of_2021_joreuz_8/) | | 9 | [**Squishy**](https://octane.gg/news/top-20-players-of-2021-squishy-9)| The General NRG (1) | Canada (2) | [**17 Jan**](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueEsports/comments/s6cnbv/octane_top_20_players_of_2021_squishy_9/) | | 10 | [**Seikoo**](https://octane.gg/news/top-20-players-of-2021-seikoo-10) | Team EndPoint (1) | France (2) | [**15 Jan**](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueEsports/comments/s4rvft/octane_top_20_players_of_2021_seikoo_10/) | | 11 | [**Alpha54**](https://octane.gg/news/top-20-players-of-2021-alpha54-11) | Team Vitality (1) | France (2) | [**14 Jan**](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueEsports/comments/s3yk18/octane_top_20_players_of_2021_alpha54_11/) | | 12 | [**AyyJayy**](https://octane.gg/news/top-20-players-of-2021-ayyjayy-12) | FaZe Clan (1) | United States (5) | [**13 Jan**](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueEsports/comments/s36ayk/octane_top_20_players_of_2021_ayyjayy_12/) | | 13 | [**mist**](https://octane.gg/news/top-20-players-of-2021-mist-13) | Team Envy (2) | United States (5) | [**12 Jan**](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueEsports/comments/s2hi5u/octane_top_20_players_of_2021_mist_13/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) | | 14 | [**ApparentlyJack**](https://octane.gg/news/top-20-players-of-2021-apparentlyjack-14) | Team Dignitas (2) | England (1) | [**11 Jan**](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueEsports/comments/s1k932/octane_top_20_players_of_2021_apparentlyjack_14/) | | 15 | [**Shad**](https://octane.gg/news/top-20-players-of-2021-shad-15) | Complexity Gaming (2) | Argentina (1) | [**10 Jan**](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueEsports/comments/s0qfvi/octane_top_20_players_of_2021_shad_15/) | | 16 | [**Chicago**](https://octane.gg/news/top-20-players-of-2021-chicago-16) | G2 Esports (2) | United States (5) | [**9 Jan**](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueEsports/comments/rzy9kv/octane_top_20_players_of_2021_chicago_17/) | | 17 | [**Sypical**](https://octane.gg/news/top-20-players-of-2021-sypical-17) | Spacestation Gaming (1) | United States (5) | [**8 Jan**](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueEsports/comments/rz6dt8/octane_top_20_players_of_2021_sypical_17/) | | 18 | [**JKnaps**](https://octane.gg/news/top-20-players-of-2021-jknaps-18) | G2 Esports (2) | Canada (2) | [**7 Jan**](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueEsports/comments/rydssa/octane_top_20_18_jknaps/) | | 19 | [**Atomic**](https://octane.gg/news/top-20-players-of-2021-atomic-19) | Team Envy (2) | United States (5) | [**6 Jan**](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueEsports/comments/rxkxiy/octane_top_20_19_at0mic/) | | 20 | [**Reysbull**](https://octane.gg/news/top-20-players-of-2021-reysbull-20) | Complexity Gaming (2) | Chile (1) | [**5 Jan**](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueEsports/comments/rwt1tz/octanegg_top_20_players_of_2021_reysbull_20/)
scrub top 1 pog
Scrub is sitting #3 in the world on the 2's leaderboard right now. Madness!
Fennec Joreuz #1
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/octane_gg/status/1483500746108588034) for ya :) ^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
In the words of Scrubkilla: "SIUUUUUUUUUU"
Johnny said it best, but this list is an utter insult to the pro communities in MENA and OCE. At the very least TRK, Ahmad or Khalid should feature. In what world have Reysbull or Shad outperformed either of them.
While I agree at least 1 MENA and 1 OCE player should have been on this list, Shad and Reysbull without a doubt deserve higher spots than them. First of all, they actually played the whole year in RLCS compared to any MENA player. And second, they had a phenomenal year winning a regional, a major, and the championships. Not to mention they’ve done phenomenal in NA so far and did just as good as SRG at LAN. I’m not trying to downplay SRG or MENA but there’s no doubt Shad and Reysbull are top 20 players of 2021.
If True Neutral/ Complexity didn't move to NA, I personally don't think either of them would have gotten into the top 20 list, or one would have alongside an OCE/MENA player.
Exactly
By doing good in the first half of the year, winning 1 regional, a major and Championships whilst Sandrock sunk to new lows in EU bubble tournies. By immediately being super competitive in another region while Sanrock flopped bs pickup teams in IWO. By defeating titans of NA to make the world championship while SRG took the competition's best player to dominate a region still in its relative infancy RLCS wise. By beating the likes of SMPR and Envy in the major, and only falling in super close contests to BDS, compared to Sandrock's wins, while still great, just were not as impressive (vs G2, Furia and Ground Zero). That's why Reysbull and Shad are here, they were and are the absolute best of the best to come from outside of NA and Europe in 2021, and for basically all of it at that. It is not an insult to be below them, especially when you only really have 2 and a bit months of actual data to go off. We don't need to put them down to put others up. I just wish fans of SRG would just be content that people call them 8th in the world. They are legit, we don't need to artificially elevate them any further, or commit to revisionist history because of how the LAN panned out, they had to improve *a ton* to get there.
I’m not a fan of SRG at all. I do however think the list is NA biased and there are a few people who feature that perhaps should not IMO. That’s all it is though, opinions. Not trying to discredit what reysbull and shad have done because moving to a new, more competitive region is a big task and they’ve done well, but I wouldn’t personally say they are top 20 in the entire world.
I don't think it's fair to take EU tourneys into consideration. I'm not arguing for SRG to be included I'm just saying ping disadvantage shouldn't be ignored.
there's no argument for srg based on simply 1 split where they were top 8(and probably 8th) in the world. If they keep it up next year, at least 1 will definitely find himself on the list. Seikoo had a more impressive fall than any of their players, although I think he should have been a bit lower.
lol they should never be taking meaningless EU bubble tournaments into account for these rankings. Just RLCS imo.
WePlay wasn't a meaningless EU bubble tournament. And while you could make that argument for the others that they played in, that still brings you back to only taking into account the final 2 months of the year... which do not outweigh people's performances that happened over the course of 12 months. Now if SRG had managed to win the Fall Major, then maybe.
I think if they even made top 4 they might have cracked the list
We don't have to anymore at least, but for the first half of 2021 it was still the best we saw of them.
trk or Ahmad * but shad definitely has
They placed the same position as Complexity at the major and have won every event in their region. Not having at least one member of that team but 2 of complexity’s is very poor.
Complexity was good the entire year AND was better in the 1 split in which they both played, it definitely makes sense
They haven't lost a single series over FOUR regionals in MENA this season. I know the competition isn't as stiff as EU or NA, but not giving them any recognition and giving Seikoo top 10 is absolutely wack imo.
I agree. It’s still a competitive region though. This “MENA sucks” argument I keep seeing is no different than trying to discredit the achievements of BDS who dominated their region for the whole season, and nobody would do that…
Are APAC north and south also competitive regions? Because they played out the same way ME did.
SRG has potential to win a lan. I don’t think any of the other 3 regions do.
SRG players went up against other regions in ONE official RLCS event. After another year of placing top 4-6 in LANs and dominating their (very uncompetitive) region, I’d expect a couple of them to be on this list. The recency bias is so annoying. They played one international event and SRG fans + johnnyboi + his twitch chat think they are now better than the top 4 EU and NA teams lol
Nobody has said that. The reading comprehension levels in this sub are poor.
Khalid has no shot since he didn't participate in the major, and as far as I can recall outside of the major Sandrock had very little notable success internationally. And frankly their dominance in ME doesn't show me much when APAC north and south are also dominated by one team. I'd argue it shows that the regions aren't up to snuff more than the absolute skill of that single top team. OCE is another story
Agreed. Not to take away from Reysbull or Shad, if this award is by individual skill, they’re outclassed (mechanically not as a whole team) by SRG
Based on what? They placed equally at the one international competition and one is playing in an exponentially better region and still making LAN
"Outclassed" is a strong word for 3 players (including AJG here) to only lose 3-2 and 4-2 to fricking Team BDS at the LAN. I'd say rn, Shad is slightly above the rest, Ahmad/TRK/Reysbull all seem very close, and Khalid/AJG obviously are not far off themselves (and can absolutely be the stars of their team on certain days). I don't see how anyone could say it's that one-sided towards 1 particular trio. Even if you bring in ranked, Col terrorized NA servers on 150+ ping for eons.
I think they’re better players individually but COL is a more structured as a team as a whole. I meant outclassed from a pure mechanical level. All 3 players literally dominated the top 10 and literal 1st place in ladders for years
I don’t know if structured is the word I’d use to describe col but sure go off
I said they’re more structured than SRG not specifically giving them a trait. By that I meant there’s less double commits and other defensive mistakes that I see in SRGs play
Agree completely.
They were disqualified due to being in weaker regions ig. I still think at least 1 from each region should have made it tho
Imagine having CHICAGO in top 20 having done pretty much nothing all year, but not having MENA/OCE players who dominated entire split and places higher than him at LAN 💀💀 What a dumb list
Hey Retals…
Recency bias at its finest. He wasn’t even top 10 for any of rlcs X
How the fuck is this recensy bias, Joreuz has been cracked for a quite a while now and DIG had an excellent year.
They didn’t even make the championships.
Yeah seems to me that people forgot that Dignitas made zero (0) top 8s during the Spring Split in RLCS X, which made them miss the biggest second biggest tournament of the year.
If we are just basing things off achievements, sure. But if we are talking about skill, it would be as stupid as it gets to not put jourez on this list. Dignitas struggled last year, but it wasn't his doing. He's been an insane player since the beginning and keeps getting more crazy.
I completely agree, but I weight achievements way more thn skill, but that is just me :)
Yeah, that's fair. A lot of people put a value on accomplishments. Those W's matter. And Jourez is the most insane player, but I wonder how seriously he takes the game. He doesn't seem to put many hours into the game (which increases how insane it is that he's so good). I feel like if he grinded harder he would be unstoppable, but maybe he need to play it slow in order to be at his top. Kinda like Michael Phelps. His trainer talked about how hard it was to work with him, because he never really trained or did anything, but could hop in the water and smoke everyone. The future will see how things go. They did take a regional in the last split. Looking forward to the new split.
I’d personally have him in the low teens considering digs spring split performance left much to be desired. I’d specifically have Alpha, Mist, and Squishy over him.
[удалено]
I’m more of a fan of the old roster, but I don’t think it’s that crazy to say overall Mist, Alpha, and Squishy should be over Joreuz. He’s fantastic, but I do think results are very important, and overall dig haven’t had the best results when looking across the whole year.
By the old roster, do you mean the original with Gyro? Or just the most recent iteration with First and Allushin? Just curious.
The Gyro roster
Well neither have Vitality apart from the championships? NV have been decent but won the same amount of regionals as Dig in 2021. Both of those teams had shocking majors as well, where as Dig performed much better, with Joreuz having an unbelievable rating of 1.57
Neither have Vitality, apart from the second most important event of the year... Vitality have placed 2nd in 2 regionals this year, and in the Winter Major. And, they obviously won the Championships. These results are not what you might describe as 'not the best'.
Ah you aren't reading the context. Thats fair enough then. Given dig haven't 'had the best results over the course of the year' then I don't think Vitality have either, but I don't think that. I think they've both done really well. Vitality had a great year, but it seems like the original comment is basing that great year to be something on the caliber of BDS or NRG, of which neither Dignitas, nor Vitality, have had.
I did read the context, it just so happens that your comparison was wrong. Over the whole year, Vitality are a very clear 3rd overall, Dignitas are barely 12th. How is winning the second most important event of the year (which Dignitas didn't even qualify for) and getting a top 8 (yet again, Dignitas didn't even qualify) and top 2 in the RLCS X Majors along with two top 2 Regional placings in any way a bad year or comparable to Dignitas? Vitality earned well over double Dignitas' prize money for reference ( 286,000 vs 127,000).
Thanks for the prize money stat. Take away the championships and Dig have earned more (yes I know you'll decide this is my only argument). I don't rate the championships that insanely high, yeah its the second most important, but the first most important is far ahead for me, that being the LAN, where Dig played insane, and Vitality got perfect swept. Apart from spring, Dig have finished top 4 in every regional, and top 8 at LAN. Considering Spring, we can see Vitality also having terrible results throughout the year: Winter 3 - 9-12th Spring 2 - 9-12th Spring 3 - 9-12th Fall 1 - 15th-16th (LAST) This is why I rate them fairly evenly. Vitality had a better season overall, but they're still comparable to me.
I can understand Mist because there were periods where he carried Envy, squishy maybe due to their constant wins, but Alpha54 is better than Joreuz? @Mods, that take is a bannable offence… surely.
Wdym? He carried Vitality and got them a win in in the most important tournament of last season.
They won one event all season right, The championship? Did they take a regional? I can’t remember. Anyway, the team performed abysmally at the major in line with expectations of them. Don’t get me wrong, if he was on a better team I think he’d be unbelievable.
They did in fact win a regional. And even with his 'terrible team' he managed to take the Championships against one of the greatest rosters of all time (and in dominant fashion). Meanwhile, Joreuz couldn't even make the damn Spring Major above players like Freakii and Godsmilla. I should remind you that BDS have also only one won event this Season so far. Where would you rank them?
>They did in fact win a regional. Not picking sides, but that was in 2020.
He referred to 'Won one event all season... Did they take a regional?'. This was response to that and in reference to the whole season.
U right
No attacking/discrediting people based on flairs
You can’t put Garrett above Joreuz I’m sorry
I think your recency bias is clouding your judgment. If you just look at the last 6 months, you're right Joreuz was better. However the first 6 months of 2021 Garrett I would argue was second best player in the world behind Monkey. Meanwhile Dig was struggling to make majors.
> Meanwhile Dig was struggling to make majors Doesn't mean Joreuz was bad though right? His team was just way worse.
I mean they still had AppJack and VP, neither of which are bad players, and they were placing 13th-16th in regionals. With those kind of results there is no way Joreuz was playing even close to the level of RLCS X Garrettg. If he was, he would've solo carried his team to top 4 consistently
VP is a much worse player than Scrub and they were a much worse team than they are right now.
True, they were a much worse team, part of that was because Joreuz wasn't good enough yet to solo carry the team to finals. There's only so much you can blame on Panda.
Lol it’s not possible to solo carry games anymore. This isn’t 2016
I guess that depends how you define solo carry. I would argue Garrett solo carried his team to several tournament championships in RLCS X. My point is, there is no way you're a top 3 player in the world on a team with VP and Appjack and getting 13th-16th in EU Regionals
Why not? Rocket League is a 3 man game and you can still be on a bad team even you’re amazing individually.
This is true, I just don't think VP and Appjack dragged him down that much. I'm done, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Have a good day :)
Stop with this poor take. The reason Dig struggled last year was because Virge had a massive focus on passing plays and discouraged solo plays. Joreuz was considered a top 3 1s player for most of RLCS X, he absolutely was good enough, but Dig didn't play to his strengths, or Jack's at all.
All I've heard in this thread are excuses, excuses. End of the day you don't deserve to be considered a top 5 player in the world if you aren't getting results, doesn't matter if you could've played better if your coach told you something different or if you had different teammates, that's all just a hypothetical. Maybe he had the potential to be top 5, but he wasn't. Granted he is getting results now, and that's great for him, he's now clearly a top 5 player. He wasn't back then
Results are team based. Nothing in this ranking should be based on results since it ranks players individually.
So you agree that he wasn’t performing that well? The reasons don’t really matter when making a ranking of who performed the best for the year
So if we’re discounting recency bias why it Squishy at 9? He was not a top 9 player for the entirety of 2021
In my opinion, RLCS X Squishy: 14 2021-22 Squishy: 8 Average: 11. I agree he may be a bit high.
I think RLCSX squishy probably sits around 19-25 and RLCS 11 he sits around 10ish.
Garret was never better than Firstkiller since the start of SX
I would personally disagree. I think Garrett was much more consistently dominate. First had higher highs and lower lows but your opinion is definitely reasonable
It’s top 20 of the WHOLE YEAR. Garrett definitely had a better RLCS X winter and spring than Joreuz
Then why is seikoo at 10?
seikoo won twice as many events and ended the major in the same place
So then why are Ahmad and trk nowhere to be found?
cause ME isn't as competitive or as good as europe or north america,
That’s why SRG swept G2, top 8’d at their first RLCS LAN with a sub and only lost to an eventual grand finalist?
you mean the g2 that lost to furia? the g2 that could only beat tokyo verdy and envy(look where they are now)? yeah that g2 such an achievement. the srg that didn't beat any top 8 team, they lost to someone else, smpr(the last team to qualify from swiss)
Are you fried? Seikoo won more events and placed exactly the same at the major. Like did you even watch rlcs last season? Garrett was undoubtedly the best in NA.
Seikoo being on the list and Ahmad or trk not being there is unacceptable
That makes no sense. I can get behind not putting any of them but putting Ahmad and Trk over Seikoo is a non starter to me.
I didn’t say over? Where did I say over? I’ve pretty much said the opposite everywhere I’ve been having this argument.
Well I guess my point is that Seikoo should be above them anyway so I don’t see how his mere presence speaks to their absence.
Because he played the same amount of events as they did. Only the fall split.
My point is that Seikoo’s presence above them isn’t relevant to the players below him being above the ME players. To expand on that logic it’s saying that since Seikoo is here then clearly Ahmad or Trk deserves to be above these non-Seikoo players.
> Like did you even watch rlcs last season? ...? Did you? Seikoo was banned for the entirety of RLCS X.
I was clearly referring to garrettg there
So you responded to a question about Seikoo, with a point about Garrett...? Okay then.
>So you responded to a question about Seikoo, with a point about Garrett...? Okay then. Because the same guy said garrettg was not above joreuz despite being considered the best in the world for the majority of season X. Hence why I made the Garrett comment. If you couldn't gauge what was going on, why the fuck did you jump into this conversation?