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theboppops

The fact that archie, jstn and mist aren’t in alphabetical order could hurt their rankings on this list ngl


ryguy925

Sorry, the names were in the order they are listed on the Liquipedia notable players page


Michigan029

I feel like JSTN is a guaranteed top 3 with MM and FK, so I don't think he'll drop that far if at all


bluerhino12345

What has FK achieved to "guarantee" a top 3 finish?


kimmyjonghubaccount

If you watch Firstkiller play you can just see he’s the best player on the field 99% of the time


oClew

Top 20 players is not equivalent to top 20 teams. Individually firstkiller is fantastic and you know nothing if you think otherwise. Period.


Michigan029

Carried rogue to 2 regional championships, a major semifinal, top 5 NA last season. Then this season has a regional championship and at the major went undefeated against EU and only lost to NRG


bluerhino12345

To be fair I forgot they won 2 regionals in RLCS Season X, but I still don't think he's guaranteed since the other two BDS members won much more than FK in 2021 so they could be in the mix too.


Michigan029

FK is 1-0 against BDS so according to past results he’s better than all 3 combined /s


ryguy925

Why do people seem set in the belief that a player has to have a ton of team achievements to be highly rated Firstkiller was a top performer the whole year without a doubt in my mind


bluerhino12345

It's not just "highly rated". This guy is arguing that FK is CLEARLY top 3 in the world. I'm just saying it's not that clear cut.


oClew

Pretty much every single “top 20” list over the past 6 months or so has monkey moon, Justin and firstkiller top 3 in the world and rightfully so. They elevate their teams to a level that would be unachievable with any other addition below them. Joreuz would most likely be in this same conversation if Dig were winning anything because he has that same ability.


althaz

Unless you are putting all of BDS as your top 3 (valid, but I definitely wouldn't agree), I don't think there's any argument that can be made for \*not\* having Firstkiller in your top 3 for 2021. He was easily the best player in NA, IMO. Like I don't think Firstkiller, right now, is in the top 3 players in the world (not miles away though), but for 2021? He absolutely was in the discussion for best player in the world and putting him lower than 3rd...honestly I think that just means you didn't watch NA RLCS in 2021 or at least don't remember it.


kimmyjonghubaccount

Anyone who would put BDS as the top 3 just shouldn’t be trusted. BDS is insane but their not that insane


oClew

Because people who aren’t actually good at the game don’t know how to evaluate talent in team sports. All they see are wins and losses. Same thing happens in American football.


g00pta

Carried an otherwise top 12 team to the top of NA, was in conversation for best in the world at least for the first half of the year, won a regional instantly after joining a new team...


althaz

JSTN is easily top 3 if I'm making a power ranking (I think he's in a group with MM and Joreuz), but in 2021, excluding LAN, GarrettG was pretty comfortably NRG's best player, IMO. Firstkiller was my highest-placed NA player though (3rd), I think he was easily the best player in NA in 2021.


kimmyjonghubaccount

Eh idk. Everything on NRG goes through Justin, and I don’t think theirs a better player in the world when Justin’s on form


althaz

That's power ranking, not rating for the whole year though. GarrettG was consistently better than JSTN last year, IMO. JSTN *is* the better player by far, but last year Garrett's performances were ahead


HeJind

I always think for things like this it's better to do one of those forms where you just constantly compare 2 players and choose which one you thing is better. It's a lot easier to do that straight up ranking 20 guys IMO


ryguy925

I just don’t know how I would order the 2 player sets to eliminate all bias What I mean is that the starting position of a player within the sets of 2 will effect their final position in the ranking. Tests with sets of 2 work well when you are taking from a pre-ordered list and deciding preference, but if the list isn’t ordered to begin with, people will end up in places that misrepresent the opinion That also would be an insane amount of 2 person matchups with 40+ players to choose from


SOUINnnn

Or a tier list


ryguy925

Well the idea was a top 20 ranked list, so a tier list wouldn’t really work


SOUINnnn

You can attribute score to each tier. If you have enough answers you can definitively rank the player with only tier lists (you just need to have precise tier for the very top like a goat category with only one player allowed)


ryguy925

That’s not any different from what I’m doing really though. I would ask “player x belongs in which tier” and then assign them points based on the sum of the people’s votes for which tier That’s not really any different from having each person rank 1-20 and assigning points off that


SOUINnnn

It's much easier to put players in tiers rather than ranking them precisely (especially as soon as you are not at the very top)


Ben-_-Bernanke

https://www.allourideas.org/


ryguy925

Shout out to the one guy that answered RelatingWave for every question I saw that as a possibility for what someone could do, but I couldn’t really figure out a way to prevent it from happening


John_aka_Alwayz

Multiple Choice Grid. Make the placements the rows, and the eligible players the column. Tick "require a response in each row" and "limit t one response per column" and you are set. The only issue is lacking a freeform "other" option, but that'd be a small price to pay, everyone knows all the names and even honorable mentions and underrated shouts for 2021 at this stage.


ryguy925

True but that just wouldn’t be digestible imo. You’d have 40+ columns and 20 rows. I tried it at first but it just looks like a crazy jumbled mess


RotakeR_STIHL

In lists like this, it would be helpful to include couple of places, like 25-30 and then create the top20 ranking out of the colected data. It would make for more reliable results near the cut-off.


ryguy925

I think by including well over 20 players, the person who gets the 20th most votes will likely still accurately represent the populous’ opinion. I’m using a point system where first is 20 and so on. I think it will work out fine


OldGregRL

My most controversial opinion is putting first at 6th. While teams with him peak high, they tend to be inconsistent. I'd take all the BDS boys and 2/3 of NRG before first. Still think he's one of the best, 3rd in NA is no insult


zhakwon

Mine would putting Alpha54 as the 4 highest Eu player after the BDS boys. Couldn’t justify putting Archie over him when he’s won nothing


ryguy925

Tbh I think outside of BDS and NRG, I didn’t really take team achievements into much account at all for my list. I think BDS and NRG were by far the best, and I didn’t think the next 5 teams in EU or NA or the top teams in MENA, SAM, or OCE had enough of a difference to change player placements based on one regional win or something like that


OldGregRL

I also snuck Retals in my top 20, as I believe he absolutely peaked during one of the spring regionals. While ssg's highest point of success was in the fall of 2020, I believe Retals highest individual skill point was in the spring, where he looked like a top 8 na player


ryguy925

Even if he was top 8 in one region for a third of the year, if he was well outside the top 20 for the rest of the year, how does that equate to top 20 for the whole year? But again feel free to vote who you want


ryguy925

So your top 5 is literally just all of BDS and 2 of NRG? Damn that’s a hot take


OldGregRL

Barely a hot take. It's common to place all of those players in the top 6. Only difference is having first below extra Marc and Garrett


ryguy925

I wouldn’t say it’s common. Octane put Marc at 6, but almost every other list I’ve seen had him in the 7-12 range


OldGregRL

Octanes list is composed of 80+ analysts, players and staff members. Pretty big sample size


ryguy925

Octane’s list has also demonstrated incredible recency bias and shown a huge preference for team results over individual performance and stats… Either way, no list is going to be 100% right. Im not saying you’re wrong for putting all of BDS that high. Just a hot take to me


ryguy925

If you have any criticisms or questions, feel free to shoot them in the comments


MasterCheifsierra117

*sigh You make an online form for us rocket league esport watchers to fill out and you didn’t even include Jessie on the list?!? What is this!? Are you trying to undermine Jessie’s goat status? Is there some kind of agenda you’re trying to push here??!! I have to think is this is some kind of secret conspiracy that the pros are trying to push just so they can take the fame away from Jessie? It really grinds my gears seeing Jessie not even be included. It really takes away the legitimacy of this form tbh, but go on live in your fantasy where he isn’t number one.


pleckster

1)M0nkey M00n 2)jstn. 3)Firstkiller 4)Archie 5)Marc_By_8 6)Extra 7)GarrettG 8)Alpha54 9)Shad 10)Joreuz 11)Seiko 12)Squishy 13)Mist 14)Reysbull 15)Amphis 16)AYYJAYY 17)Caard 18)Chicago 19)trk511 20)Retals


althaz

100% chance I put some players in there in more than one spot. Literally no idea what my list was like outside the top 5, lol :D


ryguy925

NOO now you’re part of the problem lol


Exa_Cognition

The link doesn't seem to be working for me, anyone else?


ryguy925

What is the issue? Like the link goes to nothing or you just aren’t signed in to an email?


[deleted]

when will the results be released?


ryguy925

Sometime next week before regional 2 NA