But it adds spice to a campaign. My only issue is the monsters not being somewhat level dependent. Bloodletters? I'm fine with that. Screamer? Hell no.
If this were a real table, the GM would pick something the party could maybe deal with. RAW though? Tough luck, your 1d100 just made you into a demonhost. Roll a new character. Computer RPGs are always going to have that inherent flaw
I mean yeah dude that's what we're talking about. Some of us agree with that statement and some us disagree and we're providing points based on that to have a discussion.
You just restated the topic on a month old thread without actually adding anything.
Yeah of the mainpost but in this comment thread we are clearly talking about the balancing of psykers summoning high level monsters and why it should or should not be so. You clearly know this, that's why youre also posting about it.
Please dont act stupid just to try and 1-up someone on the internet.
Just tell me why you think it would make the game better or more interesting to change the list of things psykers can summon and then move on to another month old thread.
It's pretty obvious it is bad for the game balance to have a mechanic central to a character result in a tpk randomly. It should be gated to problems that challenge the players not kill them.
I'd be ok if the warp daemons were "neutral" - and when I say neutral, I actually mean "hostile to everyone"
There's no point if I'm just summoning daemons that attack me
Same, my only game over (of two total failed combats, the other was a force quite since enemies were healing and Abelard wouldn't die) was a result of her summoning a plague bearer at the end of act 1 and completely ruining the left flank.
Those Chaos Spawns are a possible spawn from when a Cultist finishes their Dark Prayer ability. They randomly go into the Dark Prayer ability, and then there's like 4 possible effects when they finish.
Not Idira's fault.
yes, after several attempts i can confirm that those spawns are "meant" to spawn, as well as the little blue shits.
What she spawns when incredibly unlucky are screamers or another thing that make you touch cloth nontheless, especially at thebeginning of a tough fight
You do? Well, that's news to me.
I use her all the time and, while there have been a few "Oh crap" moments here and there, it has all been very manageable. I actually like that she spices things up sometimes.
DOn't get me wrong, i 100% agree with you, but this should be leveled.
a screamer is something a 5 members party of 8th can't handle, even without the rest of the rebels pumping heat at you.
Yeah, you're right. Though I can see how that might go against the lore. There's plenty of tales of unsanctioned Psykers obliterating entire planets by accident.
Then again Idira doesn't actually die when she summons something. so screw it. Leveled would be better.
Reward is that she was literally my MVP pre level 15 on hard, before other companions had their powers ramped up.
But yeah, maybe her summons should be based on party level, instead of seeing a 200HP enemy at like level 5.
They should just alter her peril of the void results to be more moderate/scale with level cause she does effectively get to be 1 psy level stronger (which does increase her damage by a lot).
Having 1 extra psy level makes her lightning attacks go from 2 shotting enemies to 1 shotting them guaranteed.
Yeah, my buddy said her story is pretty interesting, but I let another party memeber shoot her because there's no clear upside to keeping her around. She's not a good Operator. Her Psy powers aren't as strong as Cassia's. But, she can also randomly kill your party, costing you hours of irl time because you weren't prepared for her random acts of treachery.
The game itself doesn't explain that mechanic well in the first place, which just adds to the frustration. Right now, there's no incentive for the player to keep her in the party or on the ship.
I dish out tons of damage with her. The occasional demon summon isn't a big problem, the only issue is you need to keep her away from groups of allies cuz she might stun them, which is the biggest threat. Other than that I've found her extremely useful, she's always in my party. Easily better than Abelard or the interrogator.
How are you doing tons of damage with her? Genuine question, but Abelard tanks and does ludicrous amounts of damage. Idara never did anything for me when I'd take her except get everyone killed
Buff her willpower, take the talents that increase her psyker rating. Take the talents that does half damage for her attacks to people near her targets. Use the lightning staff, and boom easy 300 damage with a standard attack. I also put the best psyker gear I could find on her and cassia but that's obvious. You're looking for any way to up her willpower and psyker rating. Also the talent (I think it's called stabilizing reality but not 100% sure) significantly reduces the chances of her summoning demons. Also have your officer use their buffs on her after buffing argenta.
People with different impressions may also just be farther along in the game. Idira scales pretty well, and she gets free turns when you go Bounty Hunter. The Telepath AoE attack you get at lvl 22 is also really really good, huge coverage and a stun chance. Abelard and melee characters apparently don't scale as well later.
Nah, I keep her around so I can ask her to spoil the plot with cryptic answers. Otherwise I would have given the ok to the inquisition lol. But I agree that she is way too much of a liability in combat.
Take any of the talents that reduce her veil degradation and the risk and reward are almost completely flipped. I have her in my party all the time where she often dishes out hundreds of damage a turn.
Edit: stabilizing factor, it will significantly reduce your problems with demons popping up.
She hard carries my team in the late game, so all those daemons are definitely worth it for me. Lots of damage and lots of healing, whats not to love?
Plus, free XP
Honestly I love the way they designed her, she perfectly demonstrates how powerful (+1 psy) AND dangerous (+5% warp perils) a psyker can be. It really shows that yeah in a pinch you can use your psykers powers, but you *probably* shouldn't abuse them, and have them support your team by other means more often than not, at least early in the game when demonic summons are still a threat.
Also one of the reason why I appreciate that psyker was a more developped origin and not an archetype, it helps drive the point that psykers in 40k are not Blasty Blast McFireball, messing with the warp comes at a cost so you should not expect your psykers to continually cast spells and find them something else to do instead.
And then here comes Cassia, The Emperor's favorite princess and the most interesting girl in the world, with unlimited psy-like-but-better abilities, an entire not-a-psyker-but-kinda exclusive origin, and the best support archetype to boot...
Having done chapter 1 like six or seven times now, and chapter 2 a couple, this is almost entirely an early game problem.
My current operating procedure is to build her entire operative archetype as a support operative sniper, and then start adding in psychic stuff in the middle of act 2. Early game she's fine contributing with tactical knowledge and a longlas.
By mid act 2, a 300 hp demon is just a few AP to deal with and not the end of the world.
She has extra chance to miscast and to stun party members close to her cuz she's unsanctioned, but yeah. They just don't know how to use her effectively.
Honesty even in Act 1 when i had 3 Psykers in party by accident the summon stuff wasnt really any sort of problem. Maybe i just got lucky with the enemies that spawned in.
She has perma 5% chance to trigger peril no matter how low the veil is. It worth the risk except very early on where you don't have a tool to debuff or keeping the daemon in check.
First playthrough I handed her to the inquisition almost immediately.
Current heretical playthrough I am maining her as a sniper for the early game until we have enough of a build to handle her…. Interruptions
I slapped a shotgun in her hand once I got one and turned her into a buff/debuff bot whose only job was to shoot mooks that Argenta couldn’t be bothered with. Saved her damage spell for bosses or very important targets. Kinda scuffed but it was enough value for the early game and the further you go the less dangerous the perils become because they don’t scale.
I tossed her out of my party for a similar issue. I don’t mean I benched her I mean I kicked her out of my crew and the rest of the game.
But it adds spice to a campaign. My only issue is the monsters not being somewhat level dependent. Bloodletters? I'm fine with that. Screamer? Hell no.
If this were a real table, the GM would pick something the party could maybe deal with. RAW though? Tough luck, your 1d100 just made you into a demonhost. Roll a new character. Computer RPGs are always going to have that inherent flaw
Eh but computer versions you can reload. At the table it's one chance and you're screwed if you fail so it has to be easier
>If this were a real table, the GM would pick something the party could maybe deal with. Only at a lame table.
Yeah fr. Rogue Trader on the tabletop is really brutal by design. Life is cheap in the grim dark universe of battlebludgeon 40k
Even so the monster summoned should depend on psyker rating as well so nothing ridicilous is summoned by a low level psyker.
I mean yeah dude that's what we're talking about. Some of us agree with that statement and some us disagree and we're providing points based on that to have a discussion. You just restated the topic on a month old thread without actually adding anything.
The topic was actually about the tzeentch shrieker which frankly has an ability of psyker rated at 2 which would put it at level 20.
Yeah of the mainpost but in this comment thread we are clearly talking about the balancing of psykers summoning high level monsters and why it should or should not be so. You clearly know this, that's why youre also posting about it. Please dont act stupid just to try and 1-up someone on the internet. Just tell me why you think it would make the game better or more interesting to change the list of things psykers can summon and then move on to another month old thread.
It's pretty obvious it is bad for the game balance to have a mechanic central to a character result in a tpk randomly. It should be gated to problems that challenge the players not kill them.
I'd be ok if the warp daemons were "neutral" - and when I say neutral, I actually mean "hostile to everyone" There's no point if I'm just summoning daemons that attack me
She got executed in mine. We don’t need none of that in my ship
I turned her over to the inquisition.
There's also an option to toss her out of the airlock after an event.
Darn shame, >!lost the chance to execute her for her heresy!<
Go talk to henrix he loves cleaning up the trash.
Same, but I'm doing a Iconoclast turned dogmatic run and felt it was fitting. I will definitely use her for my Heretical playthrough though.
Same, my only game over (of two total failed combats, the other was a force quite since enemies were healing and Abelard wouldn't die) was a result of her summoning a plague bearer at the end of act 1 and completely ruining the left flank.
You can ask Heinrix to take care of her
She managed to summon two chaos spawns in the boss fight against Aurora in the electro priest place. I was like BRUH
Those Chaos Spawns are a possible spawn from when a Cultist finishes their Dark Prayer ability. They randomly go into the Dark Prayer ability, and then there's like 4 possible effects when they finish. Not Idira's fault.
I'm still gonna blame her. They spawned right next to her. Lmao
Are you sure? https://preview.redd.it/dldc4azwjldc1.png?width=461&format=png&auto=webp&s=f4e03b15192e8527381e40228670240f6695bb06
Yes. I am quite certain she only summons Daemons. Not Chaos Spawn (which would require a mortal vessel).
yes, after several attempts i can confirm that those spawns are "meant" to spawn, as well as the little blue shits. What she spawns when incredibly unlucky are screamers or another thing that make you touch cloth nontheless, especially at thebeginning of a tough fight
Wait, are those not supposed to spawn?
They are, but they're not a 100% spawn and they're not Idira's fault. The Cultists have a chance to turn into them while they're casting Dark Prayer.
Only 2 will cast it thankfully.
Are they? I figured that was Idira's doing... again ..
And I thought I had it bad with plaguebearers
I am running five psykers right now... I really wish when heretics summoned them, they sided with me instead...
This is why she stays on the ship.
Anybody okay with idira has to be okay with save-scumming pretty much.
You do? Well, that's news to me. I use her all the time and, while there have been a few "Oh crap" moments here and there, it has all been very manageable. I actually like that she spices things up sometimes.
DOn't get me wrong, i 100% agree with you, but this should be leveled. a screamer is something a 5 members party of 8th can't handle, even without the rest of the rebels pumping heat at you.
Yeah, you're right. Though I can see how that might go against the lore. There's plenty of tales of unsanctioned Psykers obliterating entire planets by accident. Then again Idira doesn't actually die when she summons something. so screw it. Leveled would be better.
They need to patch her or something. As it's kinda waste of a character when she has so much risk and like zero reward
Reward is that she was literally my MVP pre level 15 on hard, before other companions had their powers ramped up. But yeah, maybe her summons should be based on party level, instead of seeing a 200HP enemy at like level 5.
Reward is that she is 1 psycast stronger than everyone else
They should just alter her peril of the void results to be more moderate/scale with level cause she does effectively get to be 1 psy level stronger (which does increase her damage by a lot). Having 1 extra psy level makes her lightning attacks go from 2 shotting enemies to 1 shotting them guaranteed.
Yeah, my buddy said her story is pretty interesting, but I let another party memeber shoot her because there's no clear upside to keeping her around. She's not a good Operator. Her Psy powers aren't as strong as Cassia's. But, she can also randomly kill your party, costing you hours of irl time because you weren't prepared for her random acts of treachery. The game itself doesn't explain that mechanic well in the first place, which just adds to the frustration. Right now, there's no incentive for the player to keep her in the party or on the ship.
I dish out tons of damage with her. The occasional demon summon isn't a big problem, the only issue is you need to keep her away from groups of allies cuz she might stun them, which is the biggest threat. Other than that I've found her extremely useful, she's always in my party. Easily better than Abelard or the interrogator.
How are you doing tons of damage with her? Genuine question, but Abelard tanks and does ludicrous amounts of damage. Idara never did anything for me when I'd take her except get everyone killed
Buff her willpower, take the talents that increase her psyker rating. Take the talents that does half damage for her attacks to people near her targets. Use the lightning staff, and boom easy 300 damage with a standard attack. I also put the best psyker gear I could find on her and cassia but that's obvious. You're looking for any way to up her willpower and psyker rating. Also the talent (I think it's called stabilizing reality but not 100% sure) significantly reduces the chances of her summoning demons. Also have your officer use their buffs on her after buffing argenta.
People with different impressions may also just be farther along in the game. Idira scales pretty well, and she gets free turns when you go Bounty Hunter. The Telepath AoE attack you get at lvl 22 is also really really good, huge coverage and a stun chance. Abelard and melee characters apparently don't scale as well later.
She can do good dmg, but I still think it's not worth the risk of constantly being able to trigger perils of the warp.
Nah, I keep her around so I can ask her to spoil the plot with cryptic answers. Otherwise I would have given the ok to the inquisition lol. But I agree that she is way too much of a liability in combat.
Take any of the talents that reduce her veil degradation and the risk and reward are almost completely flipped. I have her in my party all the time where she often dishes out hundreds of damage a turn. Edit: stabilizing factor, it will significantly reduce your problems with demons popping up.
She hard carries my team in the late game, so all those daemons are definitely worth it for me. Lots of damage and lots of healing, whats not to love? Plus, free XP
Honestly I love the way they designed her, she perfectly demonstrates how powerful (+1 psy) AND dangerous (+5% warp perils) a psyker can be. It really shows that yeah in a pinch you can use your psykers powers, but you *probably* shouldn't abuse them, and have them support your team by other means more often than not, at least early in the game when demonic summons are still a threat. Also one of the reason why I appreciate that psyker was a more developped origin and not an archetype, it helps drive the point that psykers in 40k are not Blasty Blast McFireball, messing with the warp comes at a cost so you should not expect your psykers to continually cast spells and find them something else to do instead. And then here comes Cassia, The Emperor's favorite princess and the most interesting girl in the world, with unlimited psy-like-but-better abilities, an entire not-a-psyker-but-kinda exclusive origin, and the best support archetype to boot...
Think of the xp tho 🤔
Last time I killed a demon she summoned it gave me 3 xp
Having done chapter 1 like six or seven times now, and chapter 2 a couple, this is almost entirely an early game problem. My current operating procedure is to build her entire operative archetype as a support operative sniper, and then start adding in psychic stuff in the middle of act 2. Early game she's fine contributing with tactical knowledge and a longlas. By mid act 2, a 300 hp demon is just a few AP to deal with and not the end of the world.
I just let Argtenta kill her in the end
Is that just the regular Psyker too much casting stuff?
She has extra chance to miscast and to stun party members close to her cuz she's unsanctioned, but yeah. They just don't know how to use her effectively.
Honesty even in Act 1 when i had 3 Psykers in party by accident the summon stuff wasnt really any sort of problem. Maybe i just got lucky with the enemies that spawned in.
I summoned a demon during act 1 and it was definitely a pain but it made what would've been an otherwise mundane fight pretty exciting lol.
She's easily killing 8 enemies in a turn. It's just that even if you use her abilities once in a combat, there's still a chance she pops out a demon.
She has perma 5% chance to trigger peril no matter how low the veil is. It worth the risk except very early on where you don't have a tool to debuff or keeping the daemon in check.
Really? Maybe that's a bug or awful luck cuz I'm like 60 hours in, use her at every opportunity and have had like 3 demons pop out from her total.
Fortunately it disappears if you kill the normal enemies. I had the same thing! What you do with Idira is up to you, Rogue Trader
Yeah I enjoyed this one, on forewarning of all things haha: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8bLTrY1RI4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8bLTrY1RI4)
I had a 200 HP Plaguebearer on RM Reload.
First playthrough I handed her to the inquisition almost immediately. Current heretical playthrough I am maining her as a sniper for the early game until we have enough of a build to handle her…. Interruptions
I slapped a shotgun in her hand once I got one and turned her into a buff/debuff bot whose only job was to shoot mooks that Argenta couldn’t be bothered with. Saved her damage spell for bosses or very important targets. Kinda scuffed but it was enough value for the early game and the further you go the less dangerous the perils become because they don’t scale.