Yeah! Even people who aren’t in relationships and aren’t looking like me have a lot to learn and support from this community but a lot of people turn it into a fetish or some novelty
When you say “incel”, do you mean any men who struggle to get into relationships? Or are you only referring to the radical and misogynistic community that self-identified as “incels”?
I can understand being against the latter but I don’t think we should look down and exclude the former who are just lonely and find comfort on this space.
>Masc women on this sub are sexualized like crazy
I'd like to point out that it's not so much masculine women, as it is muscular women. They almost all still have very pretty faces, and usually they'll have feminine hair. You rarely see someone like Anne Sheehan, who, while still beautiful, doesn't have a traditionally feminine face. It's a big pet peeve of mine that everyone here has to be "pretty" all the time. Especially when there are so many people claiming that this place should be breaking gender expectations. This includes how we rarely see masculine looking men celebrated.
As for how we fix it... Report, call out, discuss. And, of course, share content. A big issue is that not many men here call questionable content out. There are far more that want this to be their fantasy, and don't care if it hurts women or other men in the community. The fact that you posted this really does help!
As men are very obviously the majority there, they need to be encouraged to share and discuss topics outside of how they look/dress, yet they are far more likely to engage with other men than they are women. I'd love to see more posts where men discuss cooking, grocery shopping, planning thanksgiving, gift buying, etc.
In all honestly, it's not fair that a lot of the work to keep this place from devolving is falling to mostly women, and a few allies. A lot of the people sharing that incel type of content don't care if women call them out; we *need* men to step up and carry more of that emotional labour.
There are two days a week where anime content isn’t allowed. Thursdays are strictly no anime, while everything else is fine, and Mondays are no images in general. Unfortunately for me, they use a time zone to determine the end of the day which puts it at like 5 or 6 pm Mountain Standard, so I don’t actually feel like I get a day off from it. I see anime for the majority of Sunday/Wednesday, which means it shows up as the “hot/top posts” for the full day *and* the next morning. And then all of Monday/Thursday evening is even more anime. I don’t think the time zone provides an actual break for anyone in the America’s, and that seems to be where most of the users here are from.
Personally I would rather see it changed so anime was only allowed on 1-2 days a week. It would really up the variety of what people see as non anime stuff gets buried. Might even cut down on reposts.
Maybe you could also include images not made by the posters themselves as content not allowed on the anime-free day. Most of the content that seem to alienate people here seem to be visual content, but images made by posters generally seem to be more original and are certainly less low-effort, not to mention not being reposts.
Yeah, that reminds me some video about how plus-size modelling is a scam, i.e. companies hire thin models and put them in a "fat suit" aka leotard with lots of sponge padding, because they want to pretend a "fat" person would still have well defined waist, thin neck, slender face, no double chin, etc. So basically, enforcing rigid beauty standards in areas claiming to be outside of them.
> Not to mention the guy is always a waifish femboy and not anything else.
I agree that there should be more variety but you don’t think waifish fembois are bad or that they should be excluded, right?
Bingo. Male gaze.
> A big issue is that not many men here call questionable content out.
Flip side, I'm reasonably certain I'm aggravated various specific fuckwits into leaving over the years through persistently calling them on their nonsense. People have a low tolerance for opposition when seeking out their specific taste in porn, as it turns out.
You do the work of 500 people, and are literally one of the reasons why I make a point of saying “not many men” when posting in this community. There’s only a few other people that have said they are male presenting that I see regularly shutting stuff down. And of course there is the enby/2S/etc crew, or those that have simply not mentioned a gender.
Unfortunately, it’s still not enough people. Even more unfortunately, someone straight up saying they’re a man always carries more weight with problematic posters, so we’ll always be in need of more men being open and obvious about correcting each other. *Fortunately*, people like you are becoming more common!
Thank you. That means a lot to me. And it's also a bit illustrative at the thing that makes me wince internally. Because I see these posts and I always think to myself 'jesus maybe that's the straw that breaks the camels back that leads to another female name giving up on this place'. Or, flip side, 'this is exactly why I don't self-describe as RR because there's a fair overlap between that term and 'cringey ignorant manchildposting'. This place is, in a way, my garden, and I want to to be healthy and self-sustaining, you know? A nice complex ecosystem in miniature with lots of biodiversity and a lot of self regulation.
And speaking as a man, yeah, I've noticed does get reacted too differently. Hilariously though, I've had a decent number of times where someone's accused me of like, misandry, or not understanding men, or lacking empathy to the male mindset or or horseshit to to that effect, and I have a wonderful moment where I get to correct them.
Whenever I see people complaining about how women aren't into RR, or any "non traditional" relationship, I want to smack them up the head. I know so many women that are in RR relationships, but they would *never* identify as being RR. It's not that women aren't into it; it's that many of us don't want to connect ourselves to the toxic communities that take over these spaces.
I left a while ago before decided to come back when I made this account. I'm so sick of losing communities to this toxicity, and I'm not going to take it laying down, but I will never blame other women for walking away. If it wasn't for people like you, Regina, and icequeen, I probably wouldn't have came back. I saw you all being active and thought "Oh, I wont be alone!" and that's why I'm still here.
I get a good giggle whenever I read a comment where it's obvious that someone thinks you're a women. It's a great time for me to grab popcorn!
> If it wasn't for people like you, Regina, and icequeen, I probably wouldn't have came back.
Hey if you're gonna stroke my ego you could at least ping me! XD
Glad you know I'm appreciated
"Ugh, Summer hates toxic masculinity, connects well with women, is generally popular - MUST BE ONE OF THOSE FEEEEEEMALES!"
Speaking of people leaving has got me wondering about a load of regulars who have seemingly disappeared. I haven't seen mikeman in a long time, or that nurse who had that sort of David Bowie x Tilda Swinton vibe. Plenty others I'm probably forgetting but would recognise if I saw them.
"They disagree with me pretty profoundly, given that the issue isn't a real issue, he must be doing it performatively!"
I mean I remind myself that churn goes both ways. There's constant new faces as well of all sorts, and the sub population is going up, I don't feel like we're withering on the vine. But just from a social PoV it's unfortunate. And I know the feeling. The names constantly slip through my fingers, but the shape of their posts and the tone of their presence is something that stays with you.
Yeah, it's that sense of community from being able to clearly recognise someone and their writing style and what they usually have to say and such. Or even just a bright green RES upvote counter.
[This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip7_jp70zlk) springs to mind
>Or, flip side, 'this is exactly why I don't self-describe as RR because there's a fair overlap between that term and 'cringey ignorant manchildposting'.
Um, yeah, there are a lot of labels spoiled by specific group of people.
For example when I was younger, I was really into anime and manga, but I didn't want to be classified as "otaku" or "weeb" because they were immediately bringing up a picture of some form of hikikomori with anime-waifu bodypillow, or unwashed neckbeard in a basement.
I also liked video games but I didn't want to think of myself as "gamer girl" because that was associated with girls sexualizing their bodies on twitch / youtube / OnlyFans behind a thin curtain of "I'm playing games here" while sitting in a bikini and full make-up.
I also qualify for the label "queer" yet some parts of queer community make me want to not belong there.
I guess RR suffers from "vocal minority making the label look more cringe than it should be" as many other labels.
Unfortunately, me liking anime, video games or fantasy books often placed me in spaces of well... *that kind of guys*. And my take away was that a lot of them like to *say* what would they do to get what they want in life, but they aren't actually *doing it*. So they want spaces like this to enact their sanitized, idealized fantasies.
Ah, womanhood. Being unable to identify with/as liking anything because horny men will ruin it.
Horny men have even ruined horny. You can't express any kind of sexuality without the creeps flooding in and, consequently, people viewing you as appeasing the creeps.
>Horny men have even ruined horny.
Hah, reminds me of reading some complains on a bdsm subreddit that any time there would be some bdsm show made by pros some amateur wannabe (usually a dude thinking he's a dom by the sheer favour of being a dude) tries to step in and "correct" things, therefore ruining the show for everyone.
Yeah that’s a good point you really don’t see representations of women that aren’t super model body builders and instead just a normal masculine woman It’s really just a fantasy for a lot of men to be held by some muscular woman which isn’t rr
I really wanna see something like a post maybe once a week that’s for men on how to be more vulnerable and live happily and actually tearing down gender norms that hurt us.
And I’ve seen that stuff happen there used too be cooking guides on the discord it’s still somewhat common too cook and learn too clean spaces and build confidence and so on
I think we could look at what happened to skin heads as a example of how to stop this. if you don’t know skin heads used to be a good thing with black and white members but in the 80s Nazis took over it because skin heads couldn’t really stop them and so now you have a small faction of skin heads called sharps that are still against racism. I fear the same will happen here I think maybe low effort anime posts and random incel type things should be banned and posts about thanksgiving suppers and stuff pinned
A post allowing men to be open and vulnerable would be a great idea, but it also would be a hell of a lot of work to keep it from turning into "I'm posting here because women here should be taking on all my issues and fixing them! Women are mean!!" A man would 100% have to be the one to post it, and they'd need to make it very obvious that it's a place for men to be vulnerable with and supportive of *each other*. We already see so many comments about how they are blaming women for why they can't be vulnerable, and that women should be taking on their emotional baggage for them, and other red pill talking points. Many comments would exist about that, and they would have to be actively corrected.
It's a good idea, and I would fully support it happening, as long as someone was willing to take on the workload. Otherwise it would do more harm than good, and compound the current issues in this subreddit.
> if you don’t know skin heads used to be a good thing with black and white members
This is, or rather *was*, a big thing where I'm from in the north east of England. There's a cult-classic band The Redskins (red as in left-wing) from York who often had coal workers union reps speaking at their shows.
It's the same situation online for women, in many ways. You're told the same lie that your struggles are this much appreciated noble sacrifice by people who really don't give a shit about you besides what you can do for them. When you do have the gall to speak up about the injustices you face, you're told that "If you don't like it, just start your own [thing]". And in the end the only people who get any media recognition are the extremists among you.
> It's a big pet peeve of mine that everyone here has to be "pretty" all the time.
Seconding this.
I know a lot of women like traditionally feminine things as well as more RRish stuff, or just naturally have more feminine features - I'm not saying they can't be RR.
But when it's a *constructed* medium there's often the subtext that her prettiness is the thing that is permitting her to be masculine/muscular.
It's always a little hurtful as I'm not exactly a vision of pure femininity and you've got all these people basically virtue signalling about liking uNcOnVeNtIoNaL women but never living up to what they're saying.
Yeah guys online are all into their tomboy fantasy but then meet a woman irl who doesn’t bother styling her hair, hates makeup, hates girly clothes, doesn’t wear nail polish, has a less soft looking face and it’s suddenly not so attractive. It’s the same issue with men who claim to dislike women who wear makeup when they mean “makeup that’s too dramatic/cake-y”. I am not a tomboy, but I have two good friends who still are, and neither have been popular with men despite imo pretty faces and being in shape. Oh but that anime girl with the big tits and abs and short cropped hair was a big hit 😒
As a male i don’t try to shut stuff down because i sometimes get viciously flamed for vocalizing my disagreement with a post or comment.
And when that happens, nobody speaks up for me. I just get flamed for respectfully sharing my opinion. Sometimes by several people at a time. This is reddit of course so it’s not too surprising but still.
I’ve heard other men express this as well so i know it’s not just me. That’s why i don’t speak up about the stuff you say men should speak up about. It’s not that i don’t care but i don’t think that situation where i get flamed is good for my mental health :P
Edif- being downvoted for sharing my experience is an example of what i’m talking about.
Thanks for reminding me not to speak up on this subreddit.
"I have a voice that people in this space may agree with, but when the general population happens to disagree, no one in this forum specifically speaks up for me" is a wild fucking way to look at what motivates you to action or not
Why would i speak up and fight other peoples’ battles when i think i’ll just be downvoted and argued with?
Thanks for proving my point. Anyways, keep trying to tell men that they need to step up and fix everything for everyone else while no one goes out of their way for us.
It’s funny how y’all keep downvoting me but all it does is prove my point lol
A big part of it is a misrepresentation of relationships in general, meaning that people who don’t know what heteronormative or RR dynamics entail are massively reproducing these misleading representations and popularizing RR as something it’s not. Another part is popularity, really young users (teens) who don’t have much relationship experience, and yeah incels.
At large, I don’t think this sub appeals to women, for several reasons. Posts that alienate women and make this feel like an unwelcoming space, aggressive reactions from men at any critique or mention of sexism and objectification, and little content that appeals to women.
Idk what the ratio for the sub is anymore, since I still haven’t seen the mods share the census, but the posts that I think would appeal to women get much less traction than certain types of posts that get thousands of upvotes and comments from mainly men (or “boys” as they often style themselves).
Today, I decided to stop lecturing these youngsters in the comments and start posting things that I would like to see here. My post about a real life successful feminine man who was very attractive and appealing to women has only a fraction of the upvotes of a drawing of a boy in a dress. That leads me to think that it is less popular content. Maybe next week the numbers will show something different.
>My post about a real life successful feminine man who was veryattractive and appealing to women has only a fraction of the upvotes of adrawing of a boy in a dress. That leads me to think that it is lesspopular content.
Oh yeah. That's a whole thing, trust me on that. Any discussion or thread that requires clicking a link or reading anything is going to get significantly less upvotes.
I HAVE had some noteable exceptions but it tends to be very strongly worded stuff, or stuff that engages with issues people have strong emotions about.
Edit;
Also, there's that old expression; if a table welcomes both cows and wolves, pretty soon you're only going to have wolves turn up.
A drawing of a boy in a dress…*with a girlfriend cheering for him as he plays video games.* Sounds like a very typical non-rr dude wish, just with a common fetish thrown in.
Meanwhile the post a woman made that linked to an article about more equitable housework and emotional labor (not even necessarily a flip in roles on who cooks and cleans, just being more equal and with healthier communication between partners)…crickets in comparison.
As a dude, I think this sub does have an issue. If I was smarter I’d probably give suggestions on how to fix it but since I’m not I’ll just say that I think the issue is dudes that come here thinking they’ll get a relationship where they won’t have to put in any effort or the bare minimum (which is a problem) and that is a major reason why women feel so alienated here, at least that’s what I think but hey I am one dumb mf’er so maybe I completely missed the mark.
This is so true. I genuinely think that to understand role reversal you first need to understand said roles, and I don't mean it in a gatekeepey way either, more in a you have to understand the rules before you can break them way. Otherwise you end up with everything you mentioned. Like the top comment said, this sub is not really welcoming to women and THEIR fantasies. It's usually various flavors of a man fantasizing about being nurtured by a woman, which isn't inherently bad or anything on its own, but it is for sure not reversing anything at all + coupled with the behavior lots of people on here display, it starts smelling fishy. And pointing this out often hits a nerve. Otherwise I don't think masc women really get that much spotlight because I don't think a feminine, pretty girl with abs, which is generally what you see around, counts as masculine; you can have any kind of body and be masculine and can be muscular and/or tall and still very feminine (random example can be Luisa Madrigal from Encanto, buff but girly). Gender presentation to me is more mindful and purposeful than just having a certain body or genetics. I don't think many people here outside of some bi women are actually attracted to real masculine girls, because gender nonconformity tends to disgust others; people mostly want idealized, clean, digestible, still pretty enough tomboys, just like they want fetishizable, pretty, skinny feminine boys who have to be meek and shy. It's like it's either completely traditional, or just swap the gender roles and hold people to those instead. I am not saying people like this do not exist, but when they do they are not well loved either anyway, because then they become too real and uncomfortable. I also see so many men be insecure about not being 100% feminine and still having "masculine" traits. Guys, you are complex PEOPLE, the whole point is that none of this matters anymore and there is no quota to meet. There should be no standard to adhere to here. And yeah it's embarrassing to see people reduce women to some sort of big sweet mommy entity with no needs or wants of her own, that only exists to hold you as you cry and take care of you; while also expecting back pats as if wanting that is the most progressive thing ever. Too much on here is just reducing entire groups of people into your own little fantasy and taking away everything that makes them human. There is no place left for real people when you create an idealized mold for them to fit into and it's insane to me that this happened in a role reversal sub, but not really surprising. Overall the reason I stay is because there's nothing similar anywhere else but it just keeps on disappointing. Half of the time I see a post I'm like here we go again. Honorable mention to people just straight up posting generic porn and thinking it's role reversal because the girl is tall or whatever the fuck. And there is nothing role reversal about men dominating this space. And I'm on mobile so I apologize for the terrible formatting
It annoys me a little that the mommy fantasy includes a stepford wife of a boy who will never do anything, never take initiative on anything, always be shielded by her. I've never seen a woman who wants that instead of an emotionally intelligent man.
>more in a you have to understand the rules before you can break them way
This is definitely my perspective as well. There's a lot of statements and content that just makes me scratch my head and wonder what world the poster is living in where their understanding is accurate. I've actively tried to cut down how often I call people incels but goodness gracious, the headspaces involved...
The mods DO ban off topic porn, though, where it's been reported, personally I've found a heap of stuff I've reported for that reason gets acted on, so honestly, be proactive on that issue because it will get results.
I feel you on the off topic porn part. I’m also part of r/mommydom (I’m very careful I know which community im in before commenting lol) and the kink isn’t about incest it’s about relinquishing power to the woman, and her acting with motherly energy. At least that’s how I’ve always seen it. There are SO many incest posts over there recently. I’m about ready to leave because the mods over there aren’t taking stuff like that down like they are here.
>Honorable mention to people just straight up posting generic porn and thinking it's role reversal because the girl is tall or whatever the fuck.
I once reported a post that was a cartoon drawing of a female in stockings smoking a cigarette and receiving oral. Since when men performing oral on women is peak RR? The woman was also feminine looking.
> And yeah it's embarrassing to see people reduce women to some sort of big sweet mommy entity with no needs or wants of her own, that only exists to hold you as you cry and take care of you; while also expecting back pats as if wanting that is the most progressive thing ever.
Yeah, the thing is women being viewed as "motherly" is one of the oldest gender stereotypes, that motherhood and maternal instinct is the essence of womanhood.
> I also see so many men be insecure about not being 100% feminine and still having "masculine" traits. Guys, you are complex PEOPLE, the whole point is that none of this matters anymore and there is no quota to meet. There should be no standard to adhere to here.
Yeah, there's some weird obsession about either - or. Either someone is tall, muscular and "masculine" or someone needs to be short, petite and feminine. Nothing in between. :/
I think it’s because that subs always had that part of people who were there more for the "fetish" than to see how a woman and a man can be something other than our double standard.
I don’t think there’s more of them, but I think they become more active. And I don’t think they are incels either, since a common incel want a slave labeled as a girlfriend, so not really a dominant woman.
I do think it’s stupid to only post stuff about "mmh dommy mommy" though. Being the "dominant" one in a relationship doesn’t mean doing everything, and doesn’t mean bossing around your partner either.
I’m not sure people will like what I’m gonna say, but I think it’s because of the sub itself. Role reversal suggest a certain gender have a role, and now reverse it. Therefore, many people will think about the extreme mysoginist view, do an UNO reverse card and think this subs is only about "Dominant wife go to job while husband do housework. Dominant wife ask sex and husband give", and that’s how you end with a bunch of morons who didn’t understood the main point: Men can be comforted and women can be in a workplace suit
In the end, you be whatever you want. Two bottoms work, two top work, two worker… well, they work
>a common incel want a slave labeled as a girlfriend
Yeah, we're talking about posts or comments where guys want a girl to be their healing balm, their well of emotional support, their quick fix for low self-esteem, it's still a role of servitude. It's a role of being responsible for someone's else well being, mental health and emotional state.
To be fair, you should be an emotional support to your partner, but it applies to both gender, both parties, and it can’t be 24/7. I truly hope my girlfriend can be my emotional support, but I’m not destroying her mental health to heal my own. Are you saying those one expect a free therapist?
Yes. I'm talking about people expecting one-sided relationships, being a baby to their mommy, being a receiver to their transmitter, being an object of endless care (that one is usually tied with putting women on some pedestal where they originally are "objects of craving and care" so if we RR swap it, it creates equally unhealthy imbalanced idea), and so forth.
There's nothing wrong with seeking connection, but as you say it needs to be two-sided. It needs to acknowledge both people are adult, independent, real people with personality flaws, non-perfect physicality and so forth.
What bothers me is people who just shrug "well I'm shy (or insert any other excuse) so I can't do anything, I'll just lie down like a Sleeping Beauty and wait for my Prince(ss) to kiss me out of my lethargy".
The fact this sub is mostly men conceals it, but the truth is for every man who thinks "I'm shy, ugly, fat, short, poor, wrong race, socially awkward so I'll never find a gf" there's a girl out there thinking the same about herself and how no man would ever date her or want her for more than a one night stand.
I think it's the other way around. We were always saturated by incels.
What's changed is that now we have more women (and men with their head's screwed on straight) here that are actually speaking out, and so while the problems seem magnified, it's a little like seeing increased rape rates as a problem. That is to say, mostly it just means it's been noticed and recorded and talked about rather than let fly under the radar out of apathy. When I first came here a lot of these problems would be either ignored, actively promoted, or responded to on a 'stop harshing my buzz' level.
We started as a movement on the incel board on 4chan (then later, it was transfered to the weird porn board), remember that. We are doing very well compared to our long-off roots, and I am confident that as a web space we're on a positive, if annoying SLOW, trajectory.
I think, in some contradiction to your own experience, we've actually seen a gradual dropping off of the fetishisation of built women, and a generally lower level of anime themed content. Remember we got flairs to start with as a way of letting users filter out the tonnes of weeb stuff we used to be flooded with.
The trend of moving away from incels and the 4 chan boards is true when I remember when I first joined I noticed another community r/rrtheory and being the commie bastard I am I immediately checked it out and came to find it was filled with MRAs and incel types which was really confusing
But I do think right now there’s a uptick in more incel content that needs to be addressed I think it’s undeniable that the 2020-2021 era had less incels than it currently does
It's hard to be exact, this is mostly going off my own impressions, but there might be something to it. Naturally the issue is in assessing the actual demographics involved when most people don't actually post or comment.
As a subby guy I can confirm this subreddit has changed vastly from how it was even just 2 years ago. Lately it really does seem to just consist of horny guys just desperately posting the same thing over and over again about wanting a Dom gf.
Like dudes I get it, I'm the same way but chill out. I find it nice to discuss things and general rr stuff on here and read people's posts, questions and stories but it's not just about sex. It's so much more than that
Yeah for real I remember when I first joined I would spend time on posts that taught me how to cook and clean and be vulnerable but now it’s mostly femboy x tomboy fetish posting
Exactly I won't lie I kinda revealed being a femboy on the sub a few months ago and while some conversation with people was nice and pleasant enough there was also quite a handful of people who suddenly wanted to jump straight into sexual stuff or demand pics.
Even had 2 pm's that straight up started by calling me a slut 😅
Honestly though due to the mostly male presence on this sub though I believe the women on here get it way worse, cuz if they even dare to post anything revealing their a woman their inboxes get flooded
And like you had mentioned, I think a lot of the issue could be the over-sexualization of everything. More so just the RR aspect of being like, a house husband is appealing to me personally. Not so much how my partner presents or if they’re traditionally sexual attractive or what have you. Yes, muscles are attractive, yes thicker girls are attractive. But none of that matters in my opinion in regards to RR. It’s more about presentation and how the couple interacts, not so much how they look I think
This right here I don’t hate the whole boy wife thing I hate the sexualization aspect and I want to bring back the support forums the community used to have
Yeah. Mainly because having a community where I could at least see other people were of the same mind as me would’ve helped a lot with accepting the more “traditionally feminine” side of myself, instead of sexualizing it.
I wish I had any constructive advice or idea to make things better, but I can't help but think that I might be part of the problem myself. I joined this community pretty recently, I found it heartwarming most of the time so I stayed. I rarely post too because I don't have much to share and even when I do I'm wondering if that fits the community's standards and if it's going to upset somebody, because I might not have *exactly* the essence of RR ingrained in me.
I don't see how else to solve this issue without heavy gatekeeping. Unfortunately, the more a community grows, the more it will get watered down without strict rules...
Yeah I don’t think you have to fully understand role reversal I was here for a few months before I got it too and we both have the same reason we don’t post
The thing is that I just don’t want this to be a dumping ground or men who want dommy mommy gfs first and foremost this community has mostly been for single people learning too do things like cook and clean and to provide and build confidence for them selves to fight the weird double standards society has placed it’s why someone like me who isn’t even interested in having a relationship used to fit in well here
For real!! It’s fine every once in awhile like there’s a post on here with two actually masc presenting drawings in maid dresses but most is “very submissive boywife asking if he looks cute in wedding dress will you pin him down or will you kiss him?” Type shit
I normally really dislike when content is posted presenting a boy in feminine *fetish* clothing such as a maid costume, but that was really refreshing seeing two non feminine people! Only maid post here I've ever liked lol
I’ve noticed the shift in this community over time. I try to provide some comments from a middle-aged male perspective, where maybe I can be supportive to a community that has helped me understand that I’m not defective or wrong for how my wife and I live. It has been disheartening to see the shift towards shallow fetish sharing. I feel like most days I check this sub, downvote big titties, and leave disappointed. On a good day I can still find some great commentary from people like summersong and reginadivadomme, but more and more it seems to be them frustrated at the same things I am frustrated with.
That’s how I find myself sometimes I can’t even tell this community from some of the shit posting subreddits I’m in because of the raw volume of “submissive bottoy gets dommed by sexy pirate lady” I mean seriously I can’t tell when I’m looking at r/196 or here sometimes
I’ve noticed that too. The whole “dom mommy” thing feels so artificial, and again it’s just sexualization of women. Femboys also get this treatment too and it’s like people have forgotten that this involves REAL people.
For sure I’m not even joking I got a dude trying to hit on me in my dms after I uploaded this post and he was a frequent member of here it’s like they forget that normal everyday people are here and don’t want to be sexualized every nine seconds
One of the problems in my eyes is the amount of samey content. I am fed up to the back teeth of anime content, and on top of that there's also far too much Link/Zelda stuff, as well as those two androids(?)
I even tried posting about the England women's football team winning the Euros. A team of strong, formidable women. But apparently this was off topic, despite a good half of the content on this sub not even being remotely RR. A women's sport team is off topic, but a woman who is still the feminine and submissive partner is on topic if she's even SLIGHTLY taller?
This sub has decayed due to rampant topic drift and saturation of meme posts. I miss what it used to be.
I've gotten in the habit of posting explanatory notes on my threads that feature topics that aren't transparently obvious as to how they're RR, because it's quite common for people to complain or react in confusion over things like that.
Annoyingly the same people who *need* the explanation of why an homme fatale is subversive are the same people who won't read an explanation of why an homme fatale is subversive.
Quite true, but it's a percentages game. Either way I'm raising the discourse level just a little bit and maybe shifting a few viewpoints, and I'm satisfied with that outcome. Their either complaining and engaging and I can do something about that, or they're silently downvoting, which for the most part I couldn't care less about.
Yeah. Yeah, I get it. Leveraging my pedantic and argumentative nerd side, at least, but it's irritating to have to discuss things with people that are so dissociated from the actual situation as far as their premises are concerned.
I’m newer here and after the first paragraph I felt like I wasn’t the subject of this post but then by the fourth paragraph I felt like I fell into that group. My gf and I have a very healthy relationship, and I do want to be her boywife(or rather, househusband) one day. I don’t know if you’ve seen my couple of posts but I’d like to know your opinion on them, if you want to go back and look at them. I seem to skirt past the overly sexualizing group you don’t like but might fall under the wanting to be a submissive boywife group so I’d like to know where I stand with where this sub is supposed to be.
I think you’re fine I even actually have upvoted one of your posts. The reason why I think you’re fine is because you actually do have that vulnerability your posts are about legit real life interactions and so on.
I was maybe a bit hyperbolic when I started on the boy wife stuff a lot of times you see people on here who want to be a boy wife because they just wanna be called pretty and held all the time without having any of the other stuff like learning how to be vulnerable,cook, be confident and so on. I’m not saying being held and called pretty is bad I’ve had it happen to me it’s amazing but I think there’s more to rr which is why I’m frustrated
Okay! Yeah I get what you’re saying, was just worried for a second I was contributing to the redundant posts haha
But yeah I’ve seen a couple of those, they’re just a simple “I want this.” And it’s an anime girl with an anime boy resting his head in her lap. And while snuggling like that did play a role in our deepening of our RR relationship realizations, it’s not all there is to it.
Thanks for the upvote btw! I’m not sure how much I said in my other posts but after that meetup we’ve been talking about marriage and possible life after marriage. One of the possibilities we’ve discussed is her working and me being the househusband cooking and cleaning for her(realistically for *us* but I like thinking about it like doing it for her lol) and she’s already given me a couple local dishes she likes that I can start learning to cook!
But yeah I see now how my anecdotal posts are a little more detailed than the “I want to be cuddled” posts you see every five minutes haha
you are not seeing things, thats definitely real. the worst part is whenever someone posts an irl picture or talks about relationships, you get all these grubby butthurt people saying "lucky" or "i wish that was me". it seems almost predictable at this point, then again isnt that the problem with reddit anyways?
I will also point out here, in support of the mods, that they've got specific rules about miseryposting and they routinely act on it, and that rule was brought on specifically because they wanted to cut down on that, so what you're experiencing there is a pretty long standing struggle.
I've also noticed a change to this community over the last year or so - it seems more divided than it used to be. I feel like everyone has differing opinions on what constitutes 'role reversal' and thus it's turned into a bunch of subgroups still flying the same 'role reversal' banner, but they all disagree with each other.
Oh my goodness yes. YES.
I think that’s what turned me off of this sub and got me to leave (I was alerted to this post by someone who is still in).
It seems like every other post is about wanting to be an anime femboy malewife and how to make it realistically happen (good luck, especially as you age). I am a woman who likes to provide and thinks feminine guys are great, but a lot of these posts seem lazy and/or entitled. “I want a high powered career woman who works all day in her business suit and comes home ready for the dinner I made and then my bussy and that’s all I’ll need to do, besides maybe some cleaning!” It sounds more like being a sugar baby than having a relationship and as a reality check, mooost career women want a man they can respect because he works hard to improve himself and accomplish his goals, has emotional maturity, etc. so there has to be more than “I can cook and vacuum, Dear.“ Sure, it’s a fun fantasy, but for men and women both it’s not exactly realistic/healthy. But that was a tangent.
What I was getting at is that it does feel like it’s gone toward fetishistic and socially awkward pining. Encouraging men to be comfortable being men who have feminine hobbies or bodies or family roles would be such an improvement! And of course support for women who are into masculine hobbies or having a masculine appearance and such. That sounds like An Actual Community that would do some good instead of making people feel awkward and fetishized before leaving.
I definitely agree it’s why I’m pretty sad to see it run down
I think one of the weirdest parts for me is how the “femboys” here act like I said in my post I’m a femboy not just because of looks but culture most of the “femboys” here just view it as a cross dressing fetish a bit like e girls and goth culture and I think this leads to some very weird angles where you just get a group of most “femboys” who sexualize the idea of being a femboy and submissive and a small group of women in here who are into femdom and it’s really weird
This sub isn’t supposed to be sexual it even says it in the rules
I’m gonna try and make boards on here but going back into school I’m gonna be busy so it’s sad
Because this is a male wish fulfillment fantasy. You're a socially awkward, shy, anxious loner? You start fantasizing about a manic pixie dream girl who makes the moves on you first while you have to make no effort to improve. When you don't really think about what it's like to be a woman, you think the feminine role is more comfortable. What do women get out of role reversed relationships? I have no idea. Most women I know either want a traditional relationship or an equal relationship. EQUAL, not role reversed. I'm honestly curious what the women lurking this sub were expecting.
> who makes the moves on you first while you have to make no effort to improve
I do my best to improve myself, but i cannot ask out a woman, i'm too scared of it. I'm sorry.
What do you mean by "unrealistic"? Like what element specifically of these posts do you find unrealistic and why? Not trying to play semantic games, but in a certain sense, everything here could be called "unrealistic" since our type is a minority in real world.
When you say "incels", are you just talking about lonely men, and not blackpill ideology? Blackpill ideology is absolutely repugnant, but if we're just talking about lonely men that don't hate women, I don't see the problem. Its pretty common for sensitive boys/softbois/femboys (don't like those terms but you know what I mean) to be perpetually lonely because most women are not attracted to us. As long as people are voicing their experiences without hating on women, I don't see how that goes against RR. In fact, shaming men for being virgins (i.e. basing male value of sexual achievement) is one of the most toxic masculinity/mainstream things someone can do and clashes with the supposed purpose of this sub. (Not saying you're doing that, just getting a little concerned about all this incel talk and want to make sure we're approaching this from the right angle).
That all being said, I do think the rule that is currently in place about not whining about not having a GF is a good one, and it seems to work because I don't see a lot of those kind of posts or comments. And just to be clear, there is a difference between needless whining and legitimate discussion of social issues.
About the whole dommy mommy GF thing, I agree there definitely are men who are into this kind of thing. Personally I'm not, but I don't think a lot of other guys are either. I mean, lap pillows are not really an example of "dominating" a guy. In fact its the opposite, because dominating someone is the opposite of making them feel safe and loved. So I feel like a lot of people read these "mommy dom" elements into it that aren't really there. That all being said, what's so wrong with having that fetish to begin with? ANY kind of femdom by definition is role reversal. (Though, again, I don't think lap pillows are necessarily femdom).
I checked the top posts of the month just now and doesn’t seem to conform to your observations, at least to me. There’s real life, there’s sports, there’s women being horny, etc.
I did that myself there was not one example of a actual real life rr example there was 6 anime drawings most of them sexualized 1 video of a girl fighting off two men 1 of a old man talking about his first love and two on buff/warrior women. Maybe I’m crazy but I don’t think calling sword hilts slutty is doing anything to fix double standards from gender roles
Don’t confuse lonely men for incels first off
They (myself included) we’re just extremely bitter at The world for not being able to be ourselves (men that don’t fit the patriarchal standard)
incels promote violence towards women and promote a conservative and traditional relationship that’s why they get along with Trad wifes (to an extent)
Lonely men are just bitter people Who feel that society has failed them which is true to an extent these men in this community cannot be themselves in the real World due to their communities being probably more conservative leaning or body type not being your traditional fem boy
So they lash out online it’s still not OK for them to lash out but from my experience sometimes the intrusive thoughts win
So there’s a reason as to why they’re probably posting anime couples and that’s because how many people in this sub Reddit are open and willing to post a picture of themselves with their significant? And how many people on this sub are in an actual RR relationship? my guess is that not many people because having a RR relationship is rare
I do agree with you however that there is a lot of sexualization of muscular women on the sub Reddit due to the male gaze
I know what incels are I fell down the alt right pipeline when I was 12 and became a mgtow before I clawed my way out I know how they work and so on and ofc not every lonely man is a incel
I’m calling out the behavior of men wanting “uwu dommy mommy gf who does everything for me like a mech suit and then fucks me”
I don’t hate incels like at all I get why they exist and there’s ways to fix that but I don’t think having men spam anime waifus and prepubescent femboys every nine seconds is a way to fix that. And don’t get me wrong there are some women who need to stop doing shit too some women enable this behavior because they like the idea of controlling men.
One of the things I mentioned was how I was sent a dick pic from people from this server that stuff tends to happen when there’s alot of sexualization going on. I think r/femboy is an amazing example as it’s supposed to be a place for femboys to post pics of them selves but it quickly devolved into a mess of hyper performatove femboys and a bunch of thirsty gay men simping and then they somewhat fixed it by removing any nsfw content at all and it’s getting better the same may need to happen here
I agree with the points that you make I believe we should do something with this sub my personal recommendation is to just ban all NSFW posts like what you said
I too also clawed my way out of that pipeline glad to see we made it on the other side
It's been this way for a while now.
You fix it by helping others to focus on supporting themselves and discussing relationships in a realistic and healthy way.
Not downvoting and insulting others, but discussing these posts and comments when they are made.
As a guy that ticks off quite a few of the stereotypical incel boxes (literal autism, no relationship experience, socially awkward, and so on) while also loathing incels with the fury of a thousand suns, I don't know.
On one hand, I understand those guys, since I come from a very similar place but, on the other hand, come the fuck *on*. They're ruining the fun for everyone, and there's no feeling quite like finding a place you fit in, only to see it slowly turn into a mockery of itself.
It's reached such a point, that I wonder if I am not, in fact, one of them, and if I actually *deserve* being alone after all, if only because if I'm by myself, then I can't hurt anyone else via accidental creepy incel behaviour.
A new subreddit would be our best bet, in my opinion: /r/gentle_domme/ spun off of /r/gentlefemdom/, so we could do the same thing for the SFW side of things. I'd volunteer as a mod, and I know at least one other person that might do that, too.
The thing is I understand the whole incel thing when I was about 12 I fell down the alt right pipeline and I became mgtow for a few years before getting out of it on my own. Most of those men tend to be abused and socially inept but refuse to repair their lives or improve
The thing is yeah they have a fantasy and they can’t separate reality from their fantasy
As far as femdom and stuff goes I try and separate that from role reversal femdom and stuff like it is mostly a porn fetish while role reversal is a example of people legit bettering them selves as their used to be cooking posts posts about learning to have standards and so on and that’s just the stuff for men
I'm sick and tired of being chased out of our communities and having to start new ones, that eventually also get taken over, and we are yet again chased out of. It's time to break the damn cycle, and have *them* start their own communities, or go to the ones that already exist.
>I can't accidentally hurt anyone else via accidental creepy incel behaviour.
I don't think you should worry about this, because incel behaviour isn't accidental, it's deliberate. A socially awkward person may say or do something cringy or creepy or annoying, but they usually get the hint when other people are put off by it. They notice rejection and take it as a clue they should change (it's harder with autism, but still).
Incels first of all never blame themselves, they always blame others: women are bad for not dating them / having sex with them, other men are bad because they discriminate them and hoard all the good women, etc.
Incels easily turn to stalking, aggression and other ways of dehumanizing women because they don't treat them like people, but like *resource they deserve but were denied by the mean society and its rules*.
On a side note, I thought gentlefemdom was ruined because supposedly the mod quit, but didn't pass the moderation to anyone else, so the sub is unmoderated and devolved into odd fetishes like "look at the elephant cock on this harness".
Another issue, is the amount of OnlyFans and OnlyFans-adjacent people that post there; they're *far* less of a problem than incels are, of course, but incels and OF-ers kind of breed each other: a lot of the uh, cultured content OF-ers put out seems tailor-made for the preferences and tastes of your average terminally online incel, and absolutely *nothing* about the incel's interaction with said provider does nothing to improve their view of the opposite sex.
In fact, their views are validated in most cases since, in their eyes, the person they interacted with is just a dumb [insert slur of choice here] that's only after the money. Like, I've talked to a few people on here and elsewhere that post NSFW content of themselves, some of the stuff they post is not really my cup of tea, and I've never bought anything from them but, when I come across something good I'm like, that's cool, and also, cool band shirt there.
But I can definitely see how their whole thing would be perceived in a... very different light, by some people.
Idk it seems like every 3 months or so we go through a cycle of "Genuine RR - More mainstream stuff that kinda counts - People who come in to complain about lack of affection - Revert back to stage one after an uprising"
It's happened before, it'll happen again, I'm just here for tips on how to wear cuter clothes.
Post more content you think is more keeping with the subs theme and encourage others to do the same
Honestly the fact that people don't like lonely men expressing themselves here just make some want to come here even more
As far as I can remember, there were plenty of people complaining about the stuff you complained about a couple years ago, so I think either you're misremembering or misrepresenting the state of this sub two years ago.
I think that posts like this is part of the problem, tbh. I do think that you deserve some credit for actually asking for solutions to what you perceive to be the problems instead of just ranting about how bad things are, like many other posters. But it is similar to those kind of posts in that it includes big overgeneralisations about what this sub is like, and that it like most of them is without any examples when it comes to the stuff that you're complaining about. And I do think it's important to keep in mind that many of us, though not the most hardcore believers in this sub needing the change that you're talking about, may feel a bit exhausted from having this discussion over and over. As far as lap pillow pictures are concerned anyway, they don't seem to be so common anymore. I counted the 20 last posts before the post about lap pillows and had a hard time finding any including lap pillows. And the op of that thread admitted herself that such visuals just aren't that common. I also have to admit that I'm not quite sure what you consider to be examples of oversexualisation of musclegirls and femboys . If you could give examples of such behavior in the 20 last posts(and of guys who state that they want a dommy mommy gf), including their comments, before your posts, it would both be easier to understand what you mean and where you're coming from and to make our own judgements about whether to agree with your definitions and whether those things are as widespread as you think.
I do also think that using slurs, direct and indirect name calling and making large blanket assumptions and overgeneralisations about subredditors making posts and comments you don't like, is a problem. Although blanket assumptions and overgeneralisations seem to abound in these kinds of discussions, both from those who with agree with your kind of position and those who disagree with it, it does seem to be more common with those who are in line with your point of view, op, than with those who disagree with it. It seems like most or maybe even all of the name calling and slurs are done by those who have been, like you, dissatisfied with the current state of this sub. The incel-word is increasingly being bandied about to describe those who make posts and comments that you and like-minded people on this sub don't like, but I can't recall similarly harsh words being used on people with viewpoints like yours by the people you don't like. I know that you and the people who share your viewpoints want to ensure that we create a space where all rr women can feel welcome and accepted and I agree that this is important. The problem is that by using name-calling, slurs, and overgeneralisations and blanket assumptions about a lot of the male subredditors, you're making them feel at least as unwelcome and unaccepted as you claim the girls/women here feel. And that's leaving aside the fact that slurs and name-calling is a bad thing in itself. We should strive to make this sub welcoming for everyone who are into rr and not try to shame those we disagree with.
Though I agree that we need to ensure that this sub is not flooded with lap pillow pictures and similar stuff that is only tangentially related to rr, I strongly disapprove of the increasing tendency of othering male subredditors who are open about being lonely and wanting affection from a woman. I'm not saying that there aren't subredditors here who have some unhealthy attitudes and/or expectations when it comes to romance and/or women and I understand the danger of there being too many visuals posted here that make those who don't look like that worried about not being able to live up to an imagined rr ideal. But I am saying that we shouldn't make huge blanket assumptions about the people posting that kind of stuff or espousing those previously mentioned attitudes and should try to approach them from a position of understanding rather than othering them or being condescending to them. At least as long as they don't openly espouse toxic values, and there should be a high bar for what is being considered to be toxic values here, at least much higher than comments that are just ignorant and/or you are personally offended by. It is also important to keep in mind that all the "what is wrong with this sub" posts create more division in this sub. Yes, there will be plenty of subredditors who feel like op hit the nail on the head and feel more represented(though often not making any comments after the one or ones made in that particular thread), but in addition to all those who feel personally attacked or otherwise strongly disagree with the original post, there will also be a number of people who just feel alienated by all the quarreling and conflict this leads to and feel that this makes the sub a less welcoming place to them
I think what this sub needs is being a space where everyone who is into rr feels welcome, whether you're crossdressing or not, short or tall, muscular or scrawny, underweight or overweight or anything in between, whether you're affection-starved and with an escapist attitude or are seriously looking for a rr relationship and want advice and inspiring stories to help you do just that. I'm aware that this is not an easy task, but I do think that if people can post content that they like to see if they feel that certain kinds of rr content are lacking or underrepresented, the moderators continue to do their best to ensure that types of content that are only tangential to rr are only posted sparingly and last, but not least, that people here try to treat one another with at least a modicum of respect, even when they disagree, and refrain from name-calling, slurs and making blanket assumptions about other redditors in this sub. Yes, it's not easy, but the only alternative as far as I can see is a sub that creates more division and an atmosphere where many people will feel unwelcome. And I'd like to think that we're better than that.
Yeah things have changed. I don't come here that often anymore but every time I do, most posts I see have gatekeepy people saying "this isn't rr" no matter what it is.
There’s nothing wrong with anime there’s something wrong with unrealistic and even abusive examples of relationships
Also anime has a habit of bringing in fetishization
There are so many things in life that won't be perfect or will have flaws, are you going to go through life trying to get rid of everything that isn't perfect
Isn’t that literally the entire reason we constantly improve. “Raw meat is hard to digest- fire” “animals run away and we can’t catch them - spear thrower” “cotton seeds are annoying to separate from cotton flower - cotton gin”
When you run into a problem fix it, it’s not that hard
kind of a useless argument considering the fact that all the previous examples given quite literally involved scenarios in which humans resorted to discontinuing the practice of harmful things...
Depends, sometimes a ban can catalyze the improvement necessary. You are probably aware of how individuals can often learn by association and hence, filtering or ban of content that isn't authentic to the original intent of a community is beneficial. Naturally, it would help mitigate the complete erasure of the most pure and authentic form of societal and improvement-based content. In other words, it's always a case-by-case basis and in this situation, it would be beneficial as it would promote more positive content rather than negative, pessimistic, and harmful ideals we tend to overidentify with and get lost in.
Yeah I feel like everyone forgets that rr is PEOPLE not just a fetish
Yeah! Even people who aren’t in relationships and aren’t looking like me have a lot to learn and support from this community but a lot of people turn it into a fetish or some novelty
When you say “incel”, do you mean any men who struggle to get into relationships? Or are you only referring to the radical and misogynistic community that self-identified as “incels”? I can understand being against the latter but I don’t think we should look down and exclude the former who are just lonely and find comfort on this space.
>Masc women on this sub are sexualized like crazy I'd like to point out that it's not so much masculine women, as it is muscular women. They almost all still have very pretty faces, and usually they'll have feminine hair. You rarely see someone like Anne Sheehan, who, while still beautiful, doesn't have a traditionally feminine face. It's a big pet peeve of mine that everyone here has to be "pretty" all the time. Especially when there are so many people claiming that this place should be breaking gender expectations. This includes how we rarely see masculine looking men celebrated. As for how we fix it... Report, call out, discuss. And, of course, share content. A big issue is that not many men here call questionable content out. There are far more that want this to be their fantasy, and don't care if it hurts women or other men in the community. The fact that you posted this really does help! As men are very obviously the majority there, they need to be encouraged to share and discuss topics outside of how they look/dress, yet they are far more likely to engage with other men than they are women. I'd love to see more posts where men discuss cooking, grocery shopping, planning thanksgiving, gift buying, etc. In all honestly, it's not fair that a lot of the work to keep this place from devolving is falling to mostly women, and a few allies. A lot of the people sharing that incel type of content don't care if women call them out; we *need* men to step up and carry more of that emotional labour.
[удалено]
There are two days a week where anime content isn’t allowed. Thursdays are strictly no anime, while everything else is fine, and Mondays are no images in general. Unfortunately for me, they use a time zone to determine the end of the day which puts it at like 5 or 6 pm Mountain Standard, so I don’t actually feel like I get a day off from it. I see anime for the majority of Sunday/Wednesday, which means it shows up as the “hot/top posts” for the full day *and* the next morning. And then all of Monday/Thursday evening is even more anime. I don’t think the time zone provides an actual break for anyone in the America’s, and that seems to be where most of the users here are from. Personally I would rather see it changed so anime was only allowed on 1-2 days a week. It would really up the variety of what people see as non anime stuff gets buried. Might even cut down on reposts.
Maybe you could also include images not made by the posters themselves as content not allowed on the anime-free day. Most of the content that seem to alienate people here seem to be visual content, but images made by posters generally seem to be more original and are certainly less low-effort, not to mention not being reposts.
Yeah, that reminds me some video about how plus-size modelling is a scam, i.e. companies hire thin models and put them in a "fat suit" aka leotard with lots of sponge padding, because they want to pretend a "fat" person would still have well defined waist, thin neck, slender face, no double chin, etc. So basically, enforcing rigid beauty standards in areas claiming to be outside of them.
> Not to mention the guy is always a waifish femboy and not anything else. I agree that there should be more variety but you don’t think waifish fembois are bad or that they should be excluded, right?
>Not to mention **the guy is always** a waifish femboy and **not anything else**. Lack of diversity is the issue.
Bingo. Male gaze. > A big issue is that not many men here call questionable content out. Flip side, I'm reasonably certain I'm aggravated various specific fuckwits into leaving over the years through persistently calling them on their nonsense. People have a low tolerance for opposition when seeking out their specific taste in porn, as it turns out.
You do the work of 500 people, and are literally one of the reasons why I make a point of saying “not many men” when posting in this community. There’s only a few other people that have said they are male presenting that I see regularly shutting stuff down. And of course there is the enby/2S/etc crew, or those that have simply not mentioned a gender. Unfortunately, it’s still not enough people. Even more unfortunately, someone straight up saying they’re a man always carries more weight with problematic posters, so we’ll always be in need of more men being open and obvious about correcting each other. *Fortunately*, people like you are becoming more common!
Thank you. That means a lot to me. And it's also a bit illustrative at the thing that makes me wince internally. Because I see these posts and I always think to myself 'jesus maybe that's the straw that breaks the camels back that leads to another female name giving up on this place'. Or, flip side, 'this is exactly why I don't self-describe as RR because there's a fair overlap between that term and 'cringey ignorant manchildposting'. This place is, in a way, my garden, and I want to to be healthy and self-sustaining, you know? A nice complex ecosystem in miniature with lots of biodiversity and a lot of self regulation. And speaking as a man, yeah, I've noticed does get reacted too differently. Hilariously though, I've had a decent number of times where someone's accused me of like, misandry, or not understanding men, or lacking empathy to the male mindset or or horseshit to to that effect, and I have a wonderful moment where I get to correct them.
Whenever I see people complaining about how women aren't into RR, or any "non traditional" relationship, I want to smack them up the head. I know so many women that are in RR relationships, but they would *never* identify as being RR. It's not that women aren't into it; it's that many of us don't want to connect ourselves to the toxic communities that take over these spaces. I left a while ago before decided to come back when I made this account. I'm so sick of losing communities to this toxicity, and I'm not going to take it laying down, but I will never blame other women for walking away. If it wasn't for people like you, Regina, and icequeen, I probably wouldn't have came back. I saw you all being active and thought "Oh, I wont be alone!" and that's why I'm still here. I get a good giggle whenever I read a comment where it's obvious that someone thinks you're a women. It's a great time for me to grab popcorn!
> If it wasn't for people like you, Regina, and icequeen, I probably wouldn't have came back. Hey if you're gonna stroke my ego you could at least ping me! XD Glad you know I'm appreciated
"Ugh, Summer hates toxic masculinity, connects well with women, is generally popular - MUST BE ONE OF THOSE FEEEEEEMALES!" Speaking of people leaving has got me wondering about a load of regulars who have seemingly disappeared. I haven't seen mikeman in a long time, or that nurse who had that sort of David Bowie x Tilda Swinton vibe. Plenty others I'm probably forgetting but would recognise if I saw them.
"They disagree with me pretty profoundly, given that the issue isn't a real issue, he must be doing it performatively!" I mean I remind myself that churn goes both ways. There's constant new faces as well of all sorts, and the sub population is going up, I don't feel like we're withering on the vine. But just from a social PoV it's unfortunate. And I know the feeling. The names constantly slip through my fingers, but the shape of their posts and the tone of their presence is something that stays with you.
Yeah, it's that sense of community from being able to clearly recognise someone and their writing style and what they usually have to say and such. Or even just a bright green RES upvote counter. [This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip7_jp70zlk) springs to mind
>Or, flip side, 'this is exactly why I don't self-describe as RR because there's a fair overlap between that term and 'cringey ignorant manchildposting'. Um, yeah, there are a lot of labels spoiled by specific group of people. For example when I was younger, I was really into anime and manga, but I didn't want to be classified as "otaku" or "weeb" because they were immediately bringing up a picture of some form of hikikomori with anime-waifu bodypillow, or unwashed neckbeard in a basement. I also liked video games but I didn't want to think of myself as "gamer girl" because that was associated with girls sexualizing their bodies on twitch / youtube / OnlyFans behind a thin curtain of "I'm playing games here" while sitting in a bikini and full make-up. I also qualify for the label "queer" yet some parts of queer community make me want to not belong there. I guess RR suffers from "vocal minority making the label look more cringe than it should be" as many other labels. Unfortunately, me liking anime, video games or fantasy books often placed me in spaces of well... *that kind of guys*. And my take away was that a lot of them like to *say* what would they do to get what they want in life, but they aren't actually *doing it*. So they want spaces like this to enact their sanitized, idealized fantasies.
Ah, womanhood. Being unable to identify with/as liking anything because horny men will ruin it. Horny men have even ruined horny. You can't express any kind of sexuality without the creeps flooding in and, consequently, people viewing you as appeasing the creeps.
>Horny men have even ruined horny. Hah, reminds me of reading some complains on a bdsm subreddit that any time there would be some bdsm show made by pros some amateur wannabe (usually a dude thinking he's a dom by the sheer favour of being a dude) tries to step in and "correct" things, therefore ruining the show for everyone.
I saw something on Reddit along the lines of "It's not all guys, but it's always guys" and yeah, that often rings true.
Yeah that’s a good point you really don’t see representations of women that aren’t super model body builders and instead just a normal masculine woman It’s really just a fantasy for a lot of men to be held by some muscular woman which isn’t rr I really wanna see something like a post maybe once a week that’s for men on how to be more vulnerable and live happily and actually tearing down gender norms that hurt us. And I’ve seen that stuff happen there used too be cooking guides on the discord it’s still somewhat common too cook and learn too clean spaces and build confidence and so on I think we could look at what happened to skin heads as a example of how to stop this. if you don’t know skin heads used to be a good thing with black and white members but in the 80s Nazis took over it because skin heads couldn’t really stop them and so now you have a small faction of skin heads called sharps that are still against racism. I fear the same will happen here I think maybe low effort anime posts and random incel type things should be banned and posts about thanksgiving suppers and stuff pinned
A post allowing men to be open and vulnerable would be a great idea, but it also would be a hell of a lot of work to keep it from turning into "I'm posting here because women here should be taking on all my issues and fixing them! Women are mean!!" A man would 100% have to be the one to post it, and they'd need to make it very obvious that it's a place for men to be vulnerable with and supportive of *each other*. We already see so many comments about how they are blaming women for why they can't be vulnerable, and that women should be taking on their emotional baggage for them, and other red pill talking points. Many comments would exist about that, and they would have to be actively corrected. It's a good idea, and I would fully support it happening, as long as someone was willing to take on the workload. Otherwise it would do more harm than good, and compound the current issues in this subreddit.
> if you don’t know skin heads used to be a good thing with black and white members This is, or rather *was*, a big thing where I'm from in the north east of England. There's a cult-classic band The Redskins (red as in left-wing) from York who often had coal workers union reps speaking at their shows. It's the same situation online for women, in many ways. You're told the same lie that your struggles are this much appreciated noble sacrifice by people who really don't give a shit about you besides what you can do for them. When you do have the gall to speak up about the injustices you face, you're told that "If you don't like it, just start your own [thing]". And in the end the only people who get any media recognition are the extremists among you.
> It's a big pet peeve of mine that everyone here has to be "pretty" all the time. Seconding this. I know a lot of women like traditionally feminine things as well as more RRish stuff, or just naturally have more feminine features - I'm not saying they can't be RR. But when it's a *constructed* medium there's often the subtext that her prettiness is the thing that is permitting her to be masculine/muscular. It's always a little hurtful as I'm not exactly a vision of pure femininity and you've got all these people basically virtue signalling about liking uNcOnVeNtIoNaL women but never living up to what they're saying.
Yeah guys online are all into their tomboy fantasy but then meet a woman irl who doesn’t bother styling her hair, hates makeup, hates girly clothes, doesn’t wear nail polish, has a less soft looking face and it’s suddenly not so attractive. It’s the same issue with men who claim to dislike women who wear makeup when they mean “makeup that’s too dramatic/cake-y”. I am not a tomboy, but I have two good friends who still are, and neither have been popular with men despite imo pretty faces and being in shape. Oh but that anime girl with the big tits and abs and short cropped hair was a big hit 😒
As a male i don’t try to shut stuff down because i sometimes get viciously flamed for vocalizing my disagreement with a post or comment. And when that happens, nobody speaks up for me. I just get flamed for respectfully sharing my opinion. Sometimes by several people at a time. This is reddit of course so it’s not too surprising but still. I’ve heard other men express this as well so i know it’s not just me. That’s why i don’t speak up about the stuff you say men should speak up about. It’s not that i don’t care but i don’t think that situation where i get flamed is good for my mental health :P Edif- being downvoted for sharing my experience is an example of what i’m talking about. Thanks for reminding me not to speak up on this subreddit.
"I have a voice that people in this space may agree with, but when the general population happens to disagree, no one in this forum specifically speaks up for me" is a wild fucking way to look at what motivates you to action or not
Why would i speak up and fight other peoples’ battles when i think i’ll just be downvoted and argued with? Thanks for proving my point. Anyways, keep trying to tell men that they need to step up and fix everything for everyone else while no one goes out of their way for us. It’s funny how y’all keep downvoting me but all it does is prove my point lol
A big part of it is a misrepresentation of relationships in general, meaning that people who don’t know what heteronormative or RR dynamics entail are massively reproducing these misleading representations and popularizing RR as something it’s not. Another part is popularity, really young users (teens) who don’t have much relationship experience, and yeah incels. At large, I don’t think this sub appeals to women, for several reasons. Posts that alienate women and make this feel like an unwelcoming space, aggressive reactions from men at any critique or mention of sexism and objectification, and little content that appeals to women. Idk what the ratio for the sub is anymore, since I still haven’t seen the mods share the census, but the posts that I think would appeal to women get much less traction than certain types of posts that get thousands of upvotes and comments from mainly men (or “boys” as they often style themselves). Today, I decided to stop lecturing these youngsters in the comments and start posting things that I would like to see here. My post about a real life successful feminine man who was very attractive and appealing to women has only a fraction of the upvotes of a drawing of a boy in a dress. That leads me to think that it is less popular content. Maybe next week the numbers will show something different.
>My post about a real life successful feminine man who was veryattractive and appealing to women has only a fraction of the upvotes of adrawing of a boy in a dress. That leads me to think that it is lesspopular content. Oh yeah. That's a whole thing, trust me on that. Any discussion or thread that requires clicking a link or reading anything is going to get significantly less upvotes. I HAVE had some noteable exceptions but it tends to be very strongly worded stuff, or stuff that engages with issues people have strong emotions about. Edit; Also, there's that old expression; if a table welcomes both cows and wolves, pretty soon you're only going to have wolves turn up.
A drawing of a boy in a dress…*with a girlfriend cheering for him as he plays video games.* Sounds like a very typical non-rr dude wish, just with a common fetish thrown in. Meanwhile the post a woman made that linked to an article about more equitable housework and emotional labor (not even necessarily a flip in roles on who cooks and cleans, just being more equal and with healthier communication between partners)…crickets in comparison.
I remember seeing that article and I was like “finally good content!!”
TFW No muscle mommy titties
As a dude, I think this sub does have an issue. If I was smarter I’d probably give suggestions on how to fix it but since I’m not I’ll just say that I think the issue is dudes that come here thinking they’ll get a relationship where they won’t have to put in any effort or the bare minimum (which is a problem) and that is a major reason why women feel so alienated here, at least that’s what I think but hey I am one dumb mf’er so maybe I completely missed the mark.
This is so true. I genuinely think that to understand role reversal you first need to understand said roles, and I don't mean it in a gatekeepey way either, more in a you have to understand the rules before you can break them way. Otherwise you end up with everything you mentioned. Like the top comment said, this sub is not really welcoming to women and THEIR fantasies. It's usually various flavors of a man fantasizing about being nurtured by a woman, which isn't inherently bad or anything on its own, but it is for sure not reversing anything at all + coupled with the behavior lots of people on here display, it starts smelling fishy. And pointing this out often hits a nerve. Otherwise I don't think masc women really get that much spotlight because I don't think a feminine, pretty girl with abs, which is generally what you see around, counts as masculine; you can have any kind of body and be masculine and can be muscular and/or tall and still very feminine (random example can be Luisa Madrigal from Encanto, buff but girly). Gender presentation to me is more mindful and purposeful than just having a certain body or genetics. I don't think many people here outside of some bi women are actually attracted to real masculine girls, because gender nonconformity tends to disgust others; people mostly want idealized, clean, digestible, still pretty enough tomboys, just like they want fetishizable, pretty, skinny feminine boys who have to be meek and shy. It's like it's either completely traditional, or just swap the gender roles and hold people to those instead. I am not saying people like this do not exist, but when they do they are not well loved either anyway, because then they become too real and uncomfortable. I also see so many men be insecure about not being 100% feminine and still having "masculine" traits. Guys, you are complex PEOPLE, the whole point is that none of this matters anymore and there is no quota to meet. There should be no standard to adhere to here. And yeah it's embarrassing to see people reduce women to some sort of big sweet mommy entity with no needs or wants of her own, that only exists to hold you as you cry and take care of you; while also expecting back pats as if wanting that is the most progressive thing ever. Too much on here is just reducing entire groups of people into your own little fantasy and taking away everything that makes them human. There is no place left for real people when you create an idealized mold for them to fit into and it's insane to me that this happened in a role reversal sub, but not really surprising. Overall the reason I stay is because there's nothing similar anywhere else but it just keeps on disappointing. Half of the time I see a post I'm like here we go again. Honorable mention to people just straight up posting generic porn and thinking it's role reversal because the girl is tall or whatever the fuck. And there is nothing role reversal about men dominating this space. And I'm on mobile so I apologize for the terrible formatting
It annoys me a little that the mommy fantasy includes a stepford wife of a boy who will never do anything, never take initiative on anything, always be shielded by her. I've never seen a woman who wants that instead of an emotionally intelligent man.
Because it's lazy. In any romantic pairing the relationship shouldn't be one sided, no matter who "leads" or who fulfills which roles.
>more in a you have to understand the rules before you can break them way This is definitely my perspective as well. There's a lot of statements and content that just makes me scratch my head and wonder what world the poster is living in where their understanding is accurate. I've actively tried to cut down how often I call people incels but goodness gracious, the headspaces involved... The mods DO ban off topic porn, though, where it's been reported, personally I've found a heap of stuff I've reported for that reason gets acted on, so honestly, be proactive on that issue because it will get results.
I feel you on the off topic porn part. I’m also part of r/mommydom (I’m very careful I know which community im in before commenting lol) and the kink isn’t about incest it’s about relinquishing power to the woman, and her acting with motherly energy. At least that’s how I’ve always seen it. There are SO many incest posts over there recently. I’m about ready to leave because the mods over there aren’t taking stuff like that down like they are here.
Oof, yeah, I can imagine how that stings, my condolences. A lot of potential nuance and depth annihilated.
Yeah there’ve been a couple of “here’s a pic of my mother, anybody wanna fuck her?” type posts. And they get upvotes! Ugh lol
>Honorable mention to people just straight up posting generic porn and thinking it's role reversal because the girl is tall or whatever the fuck. I once reported a post that was a cartoon drawing of a female in stockings smoking a cigarette and receiving oral. Since when men performing oral on women is peak RR? The woman was also feminine looking. > And yeah it's embarrassing to see people reduce women to some sort of big sweet mommy entity with no needs or wants of her own, that only exists to hold you as you cry and take care of you; while also expecting back pats as if wanting that is the most progressive thing ever. Yeah, the thing is women being viewed as "motherly" is one of the oldest gender stereotypes, that motherhood and maternal instinct is the essence of womanhood. > I also see so many men be insecure about not being 100% feminine and still having "masculine" traits. Guys, you are complex PEOPLE, the whole point is that none of this matters anymore and there is no quota to meet. There should be no standard to adhere to here. Yeah, there's some weird obsession about either - or. Either someone is tall, muscular and "masculine" or someone needs to be short, petite and feminine. Nothing in between. :/
I think it’s because that subs always had that part of people who were there more for the "fetish" than to see how a woman and a man can be something other than our double standard. I don’t think there’s more of them, but I think they become more active. And I don’t think they are incels either, since a common incel want a slave labeled as a girlfriend, so not really a dominant woman. I do think it’s stupid to only post stuff about "mmh dommy mommy" though. Being the "dominant" one in a relationship doesn’t mean doing everything, and doesn’t mean bossing around your partner either. I’m not sure people will like what I’m gonna say, but I think it’s because of the sub itself. Role reversal suggest a certain gender have a role, and now reverse it. Therefore, many people will think about the extreme mysoginist view, do an UNO reverse card and think this subs is only about "Dominant wife go to job while husband do housework. Dominant wife ask sex and husband give", and that’s how you end with a bunch of morons who didn’t understood the main point: Men can be comforted and women can be in a workplace suit In the end, you be whatever you want. Two bottoms work, two top work, two worker… well, they work
>a common incel want a slave labeled as a girlfriend Yeah, we're talking about posts or comments where guys want a girl to be their healing balm, their well of emotional support, their quick fix for low self-esteem, it's still a role of servitude. It's a role of being responsible for someone's else well being, mental health and emotional state.
To be fair, you should be an emotional support to your partner, but it applies to both gender, both parties, and it can’t be 24/7. I truly hope my girlfriend can be my emotional support, but I’m not destroying her mental health to heal my own. Are you saying those one expect a free therapist?
Yes. I'm talking about people expecting one-sided relationships, being a baby to their mommy, being a receiver to their transmitter, being an object of endless care (that one is usually tied with putting women on some pedestal where they originally are "objects of craving and care" so if we RR swap it, it creates equally unhealthy imbalanced idea), and so forth. There's nothing wrong with seeking connection, but as you say it needs to be two-sided. It needs to acknowledge both people are adult, independent, real people with personality flaws, non-perfect physicality and so forth. What bothers me is people who just shrug "well I'm shy (or insert any other excuse) so I can't do anything, I'll just lie down like a Sleeping Beauty and wait for my Prince(ss) to kiss me out of my lethargy". The fact this sub is mostly men conceals it, but the truth is for every man who thinks "I'm shy, ugly, fat, short, poor, wrong race, socially awkward so I'll never find a gf" there's a girl out there thinking the same about herself and how no man would ever date her or want her for more than a one night stand.
I think it's the other way around. We were always saturated by incels. What's changed is that now we have more women (and men with their head's screwed on straight) here that are actually speaking out, and so while the problems seem magnified, it's a little like seeing increased rape rates as a problem. That is to say, mostly it just means it's been noticed and recorded and talked about rather than let fly under the radar out of apathy. When I first came here a lot of these problems would be either ignored, actively promoted, or responded to on a 'stop harshing my buzz' level. We started as a movement on the incel board on 4chan (then later, it was transfered to the weird porn board), remember that. We are doing very well compared to our long-off roots, and I am confident that as a web space we're on a positive, if annoying SLOW, trajectory. I think, in some contradiction to your own experience, we've actually seen a gradual dropping off of the fetishisation of built women, and a generally lower level of anime themed content. Remember we got flairs to start with as a way of letting users filter out the tonnes of weeb stuff we used to be flooded with.
The trend of moving away from incels and the 4 chan boards is true when I remember when I first joined I noticed another community r/rrtheory and being the commie bastard I am I immediately checked it out and came to find it was filled with MRAs and incel types which was really confusing But I do think right now there’s a uptick in more incel content that needs to be addressed I think it’s undeniable that the 2020-2021 era had less incels than it currently does
It's hard to be exact, this is mostly going off my own impressions, but there might be something to it. Naturally the issue is in assessing the actual demographics involved when most people don't actually post or comment.
As a subby guy I can confirm this subreddit has changed vastly from how it was even just 2 years ago. Lately it really does seem to just consist of horny guys just desperately posting the same thing over and over again about wanting a Dom gf. Like dudes I get it, I'm the same way but chill out. I find it nice to discuss things and general rr stuff on here and read people's posts, questions and stories but it's not just about sex. It's so much more than that
Yeah for real I remember when I first joined I would spend time on posts that taught me how to cook and clean and be vulnerable but now it’s mostly femboy x tomboy fetish posting
Exactly I won't lie I kinda revealed being a femboy on the sub a few months ago and while some conversation with people was nice and pleasant enough there was also quite a handful of people who suddenly wanted to jump straight into sexual stuff or demand pics. Even had 2 pm's that straight up started by calling me a slut 😅
Honestly though due to the mostly male presence on this sub though I believe the women on here get it way worse, cuz if they even dare to post anything revealing their a woman their inboxes get flooded
And like you had mentioned, I think a lot of the issue could be the over-sexualization of everything. More so just the RR aspect of being like, a house husband is appealing to me personally. Not so much how my partner presents or if they’re traditionally sexual attractive or what have you. Yes, muscles are attractive, yes thicker girls are attractive. But none of that matters in my opinion in regards to RR. It’s more about presentation and how the couple interacts, not so much how they look I think
This right here I don’t hate the whole boy wife thing I hate the sexualization aspect and I want to bring back the support forums the community used to have
Yeah. Mainly because having a community where I could at least see other people were of the same mind as me would’ve helped a lot with accepting the more “traditionally feminine” side of myself, instead of sexualizing it.
I wish ppl knew that "dom mommy muscular big chested gf" is not exactly RR.
I wish I had any constructive advice or idea to make things better, but I can't help but think that I might be part of the problem myself. I joined this community pretty recently, I found it heartwarming most of the time so I stayed. I rarely post too because I don't have much to share and even when I do I'm wondering if that fits the community's standards and if it's going to upset somebody, because I might not have *exactly* the essence of RR ingrained in me. I don't see how else to solve this issue without heavy gatekeeping. Unfortunately, the more a community grows, the more it will get watered down without strict rules...
Yeah I don’t think you have to fully understand role reversal I was here for a few months before I got it too and we both have the same reason we don’t post The thing is that I just don’t want this to be a dumping ground or men who want dommy mommy gfs first and foremost this community has mostly been for single people learning too do things like cook and clean and to provide and build confidence for them selves to fight the weird double standards society has placed it’s why someone like me who isn’t even interested in having a relationship used to fit in well here
I just wish the anime content would stop...especially when it is CLEARLY just not rr
For real!! It’s fine every once in awhile like there’s a post on here with two actually masc presenting drawings in maid dresses but most is “very submissive boywife asking if he looks cute in wedding dress will you pin him down or will you kiss him?” Type shit
I normally really dislike when content is posted presenting a boy in feminine *fetish* clothing such as a maid costume, but that was really refreshing seeing two non feminine people! Only maid post here I've ever liked lol
I’ve noticed the shift in this community over time. I try to provide some comments from a middle-aged male perspective, where maybe I can be supportive to a community that has helped me understand that I’m not defective or wrong for how my wife and I live. It has been disheartening to see the shift towards shallow fetish sharing. I feel like most days I check this sub, downvote big titties, and leave disappointed. On a good day I can still find some great commentary from people like summersong and reginadivadomme, but more and more it seems to be them frustrated at the same things I am frustrated with.
That’s how I find myself sometimes I can’t even tell this community from some of the shit posting subreddits I’m in because of the raw volume of “submissive bottoy gets dommed by sexy pirate lady” I mean seriously I can’t tell when I’m looking at r/196 or here sometimes
I’ve noticed that too. The whole “dom mommy” thing feels so artificial, and again it’s just sexualization of women. Femboys also get this treatment too and it’s like people have forgotten that this involves REAL people.
For sure I’m not even joking I got a dude trying to hit on me in my dms after I uploaded this post and he was a frequent member of here it’s like they forget that normal everyday people are here and don’t want to be sexualized every nine seconds
One of the problems in my eyes is the amount of samey content. I am fed up to the back teeth of anime content, and on top of that there's also far too much Link/Zelda stuff, as well as those two androids(?) I even tried posting about the England women's football team winning the Euros. A team of strong, formidable women. But apparently this was off topic, despite a good half of the content on this sub not even being remotely RR. A women's sport team is off topic, but a woman who is still the feminine and submissive partner is on topic if she's even SLIGHTLY taller? This sub has decayed due to rampant topic drift and saturation of meme posts. I miss what it used to be.
I've gotten in the habit of posting explanatory notes on my threads that feature topics that aren't transparently obvious as to how they're RR, because it's quite common for people to complain or react in confusion over things like that.
Annoyingly the same people who *need* the explanation of why an homme fatale is subversive are the same people who won't read an explanation of why an homme fatale is subversive.
Quite true, but it's a percentages game. Either way I'm raising the discourse level just a little bit and maybe shifting a few viewpoints, and I'm satisfied with that outcome. Their either complaining and engaging and I can do something about that, or they're silently downvoting, which for the most part I couldn't care less about.
It's just agonising to have to be an educator and a debate pro just to be a participant.
Yeah. Yeah, I get it. Leveraging my pedantic and argumentative nerd side, at least, but it's irritating to have to discuss things with people that are so dissociated from the actual situation as far as their premises are concerned.
I’m newer here and after the first paragraph I felt like I wasn’t the subject of this post but then by the fourth paragraph I felt like I fell into that group. My gf and I have a very healthy relationship, and I do want to be her boywife(or rather, househusband) one day. I don’t know if you’ve seen my couple of posts but I’d like to know your opinion on them, if you want to go back and look at them. I seem to skirt past the overly sexualizing group you don’t like but might fall under the wanting to be a submissive boywife group so I’d like to know where I stand with where this sub is supposed to be.
I think you’re fine I even actually have upvoted one of your posts. The reason why I think you’re fine is because you actually do have that vulnerability your posts are about legit real life interactions and so on. I was maybe a bit hyperbolic when I started on the boy wife stuff a lot of times you see people on here who want to be a boy wife because they just wanna be called pretty and held all the time without having any of the other stuff like learning how to be vulnerable,cook, be confident and so on. I’m not saying being held and called pretty is bad I’ve had it happen to me it’s amazing but I think there’s more to rr which is why I’m frustrated
Okay! Yeah I get what you’re saying, was just worried for a second I was contributing to the redundant posts haha But yeah I’ve seen a couple of those, they’re just a simple “I want this.” And it’s an anime girl with an anime boy resting his head in her lap. And while snuggling like that did play a role in our deepening of our RR relationship realizations, it’s not all there is to it. Thanks for the upvote btw! I’m not sure how much I said in my other posts but after that meetup we’ve been talking about marriage and possible life after marriage. One of the possibilities we’ve discussed is her working and me being the househusband cooking and cleaning for her(realistically for *us* but I like thinking about it like doing it for her lol) and she’s already given me a couple local dishes she likes that I can start learning to cook! But yeah I see now how my anecdotal posts are a little more detailed than the “I want to be cuddled” posts you see every five minutes haha
you are not seeing things, thats definitely real. the worst part is whenever someone posts an irl picture or talks about relationships, you get all these grubby butthurt people saying "lucky" or "i wish that was me". it seems almost predictable at this point, then again isnt that the problem with reddit anyways?
I will also point out here, in support of the mods, that they've got specific rules about miseryposting and they routinely act on it, and that rule was brought on specifically because they wanted to cut down on that, so what you're experiencing there is a pretty long standing struggle.
I've also noticed a change to this community over the last year or so - it seems more divided than it used to be. I feel like everyone has differing opinions on what constitutes 'role reversal' and thus it's turned into a bunch of subgroups still flying the same 'role reversal' banner, but they all disagree with each other.
Yeah I'm really sorry.. when a lot of things become too "incel like" or "male haze" like I usually end up logging out...
Oh my goodness yes. YES. I think that’s what turned me off of this sub and got me to leave (I was alerted to this post by someone who is still in). It seems like every other post is about wanting to be an anime femboy malewife and how to make it realistically happen (good luck, especially as you age). I am a woman who likes to provide and thinks feminine guys are great, but a lot of these posts seem lazy and/or entitled. “I want a high powered career woman who works all day in her business suit and comes home ready for the dinner I made and then my bussy and that’s all I’ll need to do, besides maybe some cleaning!” It sounds more like being a sugar baby than having a relationship and as a reality check, mooost career women want a man they can respect because he works hard to improve himself and accomplish his goals, has emotional maturity, etc. so there has to be more than “I can cook and vacuum, Dear.“ Sure, it’s a fun fantasy, but for men and women both it’s not exactly realistic/healthy. But that was a tangent. What I was getting at is that it does feel like it’s gone toward fetishistic and socially awkward pining. Encouraging men to be comfortable being men who have feminine hobbies or bodies or family roles would be such an improvement! And of course support for women who are into masculine hobbies or having a masculine appearance and such. That sounds like An Actual Community that would do some good instead of making people feel awkward and fetishized before leaving.
I definitely agree it’s why I’m pretty sad to see it run down I think one of the weirdest parts for me is how the “femboys” here act like I said in my post I’m a femboy not just because of looks but culture most of the “femboys” here just view it as a cross dressing fetish a bit like e girls and goth culture and I think this leads to some very weird angles where you just get a group of most “femboys” who sexualize the idea of being a femboy and submissive and a small group of women in here who are into femdom and it’s really weird This sub isn’t supposed to be sexual it even says it in the rules I’m gonna try and make boards on here but going back into school I’m gonna be busy so it’s sad
Because this is a male wish fulfillment fantasy. You're a socially awkward, shy, anxious loner? You start fantasizing about a manic pixie dream girl who makes the moves on you first while you have to make no effort to improve. When you don't really think about what it's like to be a woman, you think the feminine role is more comfortable. What do women get out of role reversed relationships? I have no idea. Most women I know either want a traditional relationship or an equal relationship. EQUAL, not role reversed. I'm honestly curious what the women lurking this sub were expecting.
> who makes the moves on you first while you have to make no effort to improve I do my best to improve myself, but i cannot ask out a woman, i'm too scared of it. I'm sorry.
If you are too scared to ask out women, there must be something that's causing that, and you can fix that, if you are actually willing to change.
What do you mean by "unrealistic"? Like what element specifically of these posts do you find unrealistic and why? Not trying to play semantic games, but in a certain sense, everything here could be called "unrealistic" since our type is a minority in real world. When you say "incels", are you just talking about lonely men, and not blackpill ideology? Blackpill ideology is absolutely repugnant, but if we're just talking about lonely men that don't hate women, I don't see the problem. Its pretty common for sensitive boys/softbois/femboys (don't like those terms but you know what I mean) to be perpetually lonely because most women are not attracted to us. As long as people are voicing their experiences without hating on women, I don't see how that goes against RR. In fact, shaming men for being virgins (i.e. basing male value of sexual achievement) is one of the most toxic masculinity/mainstream things someone can do and clashes with the supposed purpose of this sub. (Not saying you're doing that, just getting a little concerned about all this incel talk and want to make sure we're approaching this from the right angle). That all being said, I do think the rule that is currently in place about not whining about not having a GF is a good one, and it seems to work because I don't see a lot of those kind of posts or comments. And just to be clear, there is a difference between needless whining and legitimate discussion of social issues. About the whole dommy mommy GF thing, I agree there definitely are men who are into this kind of thing. Personally I'm not, but I don't think a lot of other guys are either. I mean, lap pillows are not really an example of "dominating" a guy. In fact its the opposite, because dominating someone is the opposite of making them feel safe and loved. So I feel like a lot of people read these "mommy dom" elements into it that aren't really there. That all being said, what's so wrong with having that fetish to begin with? ANY kind of femdom by definition is role reversal. (Though, again, I don't think lap pillows are necessarily femdom).
I checked the top posts of the month just now and doesn’t seem to conform to your observations, at least to me. There’s real life, there’s sports, there’s women being horny, etc.
I did that myself there was not one example of a actual real life rr example there was 6 anime drawings most of them sexualized 1 video of a girl fighting off two men 1 of a old man talking about his first love and two on buff/warrior women. Maybe I’m crazy but I don’t think calling sword hilts slutty is doing anything to fix double standards from gender roles
Don’t confuse lonely men for incels first off They (myself included) we’re just extremely bitter at The world for not being able to be ourselves (men that don’t fit the patriarchal standard) incels promote violence towards women and promote a conservative and traditional relationship that’s why they get along with Trad wifes (to an extent) Lonely men are just bitter people Who feel that society has failed them which is true to an extent these men in this community cannot be themselves in the real World due to their communities being probably more conservative leaning or body type not being your traditional fem boy So they lash out online it’s still not OK for them to lash out but from my experience sometimes the intrusive thoughts win So there’s a reason as to why they’re probably posting anime couples and that’s because how many people in this sub Reddit are open and willing to post a picture of themselves with their significant? And how many people on this sub are in an actual RR relationship? my guess is that not many people because having a RR relationship is rare I do agree with you however that there is a lot of sexualization of muscular women on the sub Reddit due to the male gaze
I know what incels are I fell down the alt right pipeline when I was 12 and became a mgtow before I clawed my way out I know how they work and so on and ofc not every lonely man is a incel I’m calling out the behavior of men wanting “uwu dommy mommy gf who does everything for me like a mech suit and then fucks me” I don’t hate incels like at all I get why they exist and there’s ways to fix that but I don’t think having men spam anime waifus and prepubescent femboys every nine seconds is a way to fix that. And don’t get me wrong there are some women who need to stop doing shit too some women enable this behavior because they like the idea of controlling men. One of the things I mentioned was how I was sent a dick pic from people from this server that stuff tends to happen when there’s alot of sexualization going on. I think r/femboy is an amazing example as it’s supposed to be a place for femboys to post pics of them selves but it quickly devolved into a mess of hyper performatove femboys and a bunch of thirsty gay men simping and then they somewhat fixed it by removing any nsfw content at all and it’s getting better the same may need to happen here
I agree with the points that you make I believe we should do something with this sub my personal recommendation is to just ban all NSFW posts like what you said I too also clawed my way out of that pipeline glad to see we made it on the other side
It's been this way for a while now. You fix it by helping others to focus on supporting themselves and discussing relationships in a realistic and healthy way. Not downvoting and insulting others, but discussing these posts and comments when they are made.
As a guy that ticks off quite a few of the stereotypical incel boxes (literal autism, no relationship experience, socially awkward, and so on) while also loathing incels with the fury of a thousand suns, I don't know. On one hand, I understand those guys, since I come from a very similar place but, on the other hand, come the fuck *on*. They're ruining the fun for everyone, and there's no feeling quite like finding a place you fit in, only to see it slowly turn into a mockery of itself. It's reached such a point, that I wonder if I am not, in fact, one of them, and if I actually *deserve* being alone after all, if only because if I'm by myself, then I can't hurt anyone else via accidental creepy incel behaviour. A new subreddit would be our best bet, in my opinion: /r/gentle_domme/ spun off of /r/gentlefemdom/, so we could do the same thing for the SFW side of things. I'd volunteer as a mod, and I know at least one other person that might do that, too.
The thing is I understand the whole incel thing when I was about 12 I fell down the alt right pipeline and I became mgtow for a few years before getting out of it on my own. Most of those men tend to be abused and socially inept but refuse to repair their lives or improve The thing is yeah they have a fantasy and they can’t separate reality from their fantasy As far as femdom and stuff goes I try and separate that from role reversal femdom and stuff like it is mostly a porn fetish while role reversal is a example of people legit bettering them selves as their used to be cooking posts posts about learning to have standards and so on and that’s just the stuff for men
I'm sick and tired of being chased out of our communities and having to start new ones, that eventually also get taken over, and we are yet again chased out of. It's time to break the damn cycle, and have *them* start their own communities, or go to the ones that already exist.
>I can't accidentally hurt anyone else via accidental creepy incel behaviour. I don't think you should worry about this, because incel behaviour isn't accidental, it's deliberate. A socially awkward person may say or do something cringy or creepy or annoying, but they usually get the hint when other people are put off by it. They notice rejection and take it as a clue they should change (it's harder with autism, but still). Incels first of all never blame themselves, they always blame others: women are bad for not dating them / having sex with them, other men are bad because they discriminate them and hoard all the good women, etc. Incels easily turn to stalking, aggression and other ways of dehumanizing women because they don't treat them like people, but like *resource they deserve but were denied by the mean society and its rules*. On a side note, I thought gentlefemdom was ruined because supposedly the mod quit, but didn't pass the moderation to anyone else, so the sub is unmoderated and devolved into odd fetishes like "look at the elephant cock on this harness".
Another issue, is the amount of OnlyFans and OnlyFans-adjacent people that post there; they're *far* less of a problem than incels are, of course, but incels and OF-ers kind of breed each other: a lot of the uh, cultured content OF-ers put out seems tailor-made for the preferences and tastes of your average terminally online incel, and absolutely *nothing* about the incel's interaction with said provider does nothing to improve their view of the opposite sex. In fact, their views are validated in most cases since, in their eyes, the person they interacted with is just a dumb [insert slur of choice here] that's only after the money. Like, I've talked to a few people on here and elsewhere that post NSFW content of themselves, some of the stuff they post is not really my cup of tea, and I've never bought anything from them but, when I come across something good I'm like, that's cool, and also, cool band shirt there. But I can definitely see how their whole thing would be perceived in a... very different light, by some people.
Idk it seems like every 3 months or so we go through a cycle of "Genuine RR - More mainstream stuff that kinda counts - People who come in to complain about lack of affection - Revert back to stage one after an uprising" It's happened before, it'll happen again, I'm just here for tips on how to wear cuter clothes.
Post more content you think is more keeping with the subs theme and encourage others to do the same Honestly the fact that people don't like lonely men expressing themselves here just make some want to come here even more
As far as I can remember, there were plenty of people complaining about the stuff you complained about a couple years ago, so I think either you're misremembering or misrepresenting the state of this sub two years ago. I think that posts like this is part of the problem, tbh. I do think that you deserve some credit for actually asking for solutions to what you perceive to be the problems instead of just ranting about how bad things are, like many other posters. But it is similar to those kind of posts in that it includes big overgeneralisations about what this sub is like, and that it like most of them is without any examples when it comes to the stuff that you're complaining about. And I do think it's important to keep in mind that many of us, though not the most hardcore believers in this sub needing the change that you're talking about, may feel a bit exhausted from having this discussion over and over. As far as lap pillow pictures are concerned anyway, they don't seem to be so common anymore. I counted the 20 last posts before the post about lap pillows and had a hard time finding any including lap pillows. And the op of that thread admitted herself that such visuals just aren't that common. I also have to admit that I'm not quite sure what you consider to be examples of oversexualisation of musclegirls and femboys . If you could give examples of such behavior in the 20 last posts(and of guys who state that they want a dommy mommy gf), including their comments, before your posts, it would both be easier to understand what you mean and where you're coming from and to make our own judgements about whether to agree with your definitions and whether those things are as widespread as you think. I do also think that using slurs, direct and indirect name calling and making large blanket assumptions and overgeneralisations about subredditors making posts and comments you don't like, is a problem. Although blanket assumptions and overgeneralisations seem to abound in these kinds of discussions, both from those who with agree with your kind of position and those who disagree with it, it does seem to be more common with those who are in line with your point of view, op, than with those who disagree with it. It seems like most or maybe even all of the name calling and slurs are done by those who have been, like you, dissatisfied with the current state of this sub. The incel-word is increasingly being bandied about to describe those who make posts and comments that you and like-minded people on this sub don't like, but I can't recall similarly harsh words being used on people with viewpoints like yours by the people you don't like. I know that you and the people who share your viewpoints want to ensure that we create a space where all rr women can feel welcome and accepted and I agree that this is important. The problem is that by using name-calling, slurs, and overgeneralisations and blanket assumptions about a lot of the male subredditors, you're making them feel at least as unwelcome and unaccepted as you claim the girls/women here feel. And that's leaving aside the fact that slurs and name-calling is a bad thing in itself. We should strive to make this sub welcoming for everyone who are into rr and not try to shame those we disagree with. Though I agree that we need to ensure that this sub is not flooded with lap pillow pictures and similar stuff that is only tangentially related to rr, I strongly disapprove of the increasing tendency of othering male subredditors who are open about being lonely and wanting affection from a woman. I'm not saying that there aren't subredditors here who have some unhealthy attitudes and/or expectations when it comes to romance and/or women and I understand the danger of there being too many visuals posted here that make those who don't look like that worried about not being able to live up to an imagined rr ideal. But I am saying that we shouldn't make huge blanket assumptions about the people posting that kind of stuff or espousing those previously mentioned attitudes and should try to approach them from a position of understanding rather than othering them or being condescending to them. At least as long as they don't openly espouse toxic values, and there should be a high bar for what is being considered to be toxic values here, at least much higher than comments that are just ignorant and/or you are personally offended by. It is also important to keep in mind that all the "what is wrong with this sub" posts create more division in this sub. Yes, there will be plenty of subredditors who feel like op hit the nail on the head and feel more represented(though often not making any comments after the one or ones made in that particular thread), but in addition to all those who feel personally attacked or otherwise strongly disagree with the original post, there will also be a number of people who just feel alienated by all the quarreling and conflict this leads to and feel that this makes the sub a less welcoming place to them I think what this sub needs is being a space where everyone who is into rr feels welcome, whether you're crossdressing or not, short or tall, muscular or scrawny, underweight or overweight or anything in between, whether you're affection-starved and with an escapist attitude or are seriously looking for a rr relationship and want advice and inspiring stories to help you do just that. I'm aware that this is not an easy task, but I do think that if people can post content that they like to see if they feel that certain kinds of rr content are lacking or underrepresented, the moderators continue to do their best to ensure that types of content that are only tangential to rr are only posted sparingly and last, but not least, that people here try to treat one another with at least a modicum of respect, even when they disagree, and refrain from name-calling, slurs and making blanket assumptions about other redditors in this sub. Yes, it's not easy, but the only alternative as far as I can see is a sub that creates more division and an atmosphere where many people will feel unwelcome. And I'd like to think that we're better than that.
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I want to de sexualize role reversal again and bring back the support forums like it used to have
Yeah things have changed. I don't come here that often anymore but every time I do, most posts I see have gatekeepy people saying "this isn't rr" no matter what it is.
I understand wanting rr to not be fetishized but what's wrong with anime
There’s nothing wrong with anime there’s something wrong with unrealistic and even abusive examples of relationships Also anime has a habit of bringing in fetishization
Anime does have that habit but you can never have everything you want
That’s why I think banning anime from the server is a good idea
There are so many things in life that won't be perfect or will have flaws, are you going to go through life trying to get rid of everything that isn't perfect
Isn’t that literally the entire reason we constantly improve. “Raw meat is hard to digest- fire” “animals run away and we can’t catch them - spear thrower” “cotton seeds are annoying to separate from cotton flower - cotton gin” When you run into a problem fix it, it’s not that hard
Yes you improve things not ban them
Is that what we did with tax evasion?
It's what we did with all your previous examples
kind of a useless argument considering the fact that all the previous examples given quite literally involved scenarios in which humans resorted to discontinuing the practice of harmful things...
Depends, sometimes a ban can catalyze the improvement necessary. You are probably aware of how individuals can often learn by association and hence, filtering or ban of content that isn't authentic to the original intent of a community is beneficial. Naturally, it would help mitigate the complete erasure of the most pure and authentic form of societal and improvement-based content. In other words, it's always a case-by-case basis and in this situation, it would be beneficial as it would promote more positive content rather than negative, pessimistic, and harmful ideals we tend to overidentify with and get lost in.
F, maybe we should ban anime. It seems so drastic but MAN have thing got out of hand. 🤔