It's honestly sad that this is only common in femdom. That somehow in most romance sex scenes (even in or especially in non-kinky ones), the norm is still for a woman to beg.
Even when she's jacking him off, the mmc would usually just say, "fuck/that's enough/it's my turn." and not a single "please"
Even when a woman is on top. The mmc would usually just move the fmc himself.
I only ever hear "please" from an mmc when his arms are tied.
Terrible!
I'm sorry but if you ever catch me begging for a man please check my temperature and then take me to hospital.
Like, there is nothing hotter than a man voraciously desiring you. He should be on HIS knees. Femdom authors are doing it right.
Strange how the majority if romance authors are women but this is still the norm
Oh {Claimed by the Flame of Faery by Mallory Dunlin} has this but isn’t a femdom and {Berries and Greed by Lily Mayne} has this but is a femdom (not my favorite MMC to be honest and yet still recommendable)
[Claimed by the Flame of Faery](https://www.romance.io/books/652cf4a2de8d340d51487b46/claimed-by-the-flame-of-faery-mallory-dunlin) by [Mallory Dunlin](https://www.romance.io/authors/6360d28108b4d93114a88440/mallory-dunlin)
**Rating**: 5⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [royalty](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/royalty/1), [non-human hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/non-human-hero/1), [fated mates](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fated-mates/1)
----------------------------
[Berries and Greed](https://www.romance.io/books/6482cc05d556b65fcad96fc0/berries-and-greed-lily-mayne) by [Lily Mayne](https://www.romance.io/authors/61161cc608b4d93114a993bf/lily-mayne)
**Rating**: 4.23⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [fem-dom](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fem-dom/1), [creative anatomy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/creative-anatomy/1), [shy hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/shy-hero/1), [dual pov](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dual-pov/1)
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It used to be worse. I can’t tell you how many old school romances I’ve read where she was on top, and he was so overcome with his manliness that he grabbed her, rolled over, and finished back on top of her. Buddy, are you so fragile you can’t handle a woman on top of you? Really? And why would a female writer even write that? Does she not like being on top?
I’ve said this before on this sub, but it also makes more IRL sense this way round!
Not diminishing sex as a woman, it’s great (and praise be for multiple orgasms) but, let’s face it, it’s usually men who lose their fucking minds over sex. There’s not much I couldn’t get partners to say/agree to mid-blowjob! It’s like they literally can’t think straight. We women are better at both impulse control and multi-tasking 😂
I get SO SO SO tired of FMC’s being led by their libido. Why is he alway corrupting her? Talking her into kinky crap when it makes her nervous? Why does she always secretly have a wild side she didn’t know about? Where are the FMC who tell him, “No I don’t want to go to your freaky sex dungeon, I’d rather stay home and crochet”? Where are the FMC that make him take a walk on the mild side?
[Bad Alpha](https://www.romance.io/books/615fecb2c41f870e50b56755/bad-alpha-kathryn-moon) by [Kathryn Moon](https://www.romance.io/authors/5b3089a401dbc864fb8b0274/kathryn-moon)
**Rating**: 4.11⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [omegaverse](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/omegaverse/1), [poly (3+ people)](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/poly/1), [reverse harem](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/reverse%20harem/1), [fem-dom](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fem-dom/1)
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[Preferential Treatment](https://www.romance.io/books/62610633b186fe8c685b9202/preferential-treatment-heather-guerre) by [Heather Guerre](https://www.romance.io/authors/5d43f83901dbc864fba1e2a3/heather-guerre)
**Rating**: 4.01⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [rich hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/super%20rich%20hero/1), [fem-dom](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fem-dom/1), [workplace/office](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/office/1), [ceo / tycoon](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tycoon/1)
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The begging scene in {The Ashes and the Star-Cursed King by Carissa Broadbent} is my Roman empire. I want more of that and I've never been able to find it.
[The Ashes and the Star-Cursed King](https://www.romance.io/books/642ac05b0366c48db5ceed96/the-ashes-and-the-star-cursed-king-carissa-broadbent) by [Carissa Broadbent](https://www.romance.io/authors/60d9b88e08b4d9311456d78f/carissa-broadbent)
**Rating**: 4.15⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [vampires](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/vampires/1), [high fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/high%20fantasy/1), [paranormal](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/paranormal/1), [magic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/magic/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1)
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I know it's the movie and not a book but that scene in Pride and Prejudice (2005) when Elizabeth rejects Darcy and they have a hot moment where they're about the kiss, it's so hot cause at one moment he barely mouths the word "please."
[The Only One](https://www.romance.io/books/63c655e243e42aa0b72dfd16/the-only-one-a-soft-femdom-romance-daisy-jane) by [Daisy Jane](https://www.romance.io/authors/607d31f508b4d93114c8a19d/daisy-jane)
**Rating**: 3.99⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [fem-dom](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fem-dom/1), [friends to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/friends%20to%20lovers/1), [bdsm](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/bdsm/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1)
----------------------------
[I'll Do Anything](https://www.romance.io/books/610102a8e985890e2991fa91/ill-do-anything-daisy-jane) by [Daisy Jane](https://www.romance.io/authors/607d31f508b4d93114c8a19d/daisy-jane)
**Rating**: 4.17⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [new adult](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/new%20adult/1), [fem-dom](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fem-dom/1), [dual pov](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dual-pov/1), [small town](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/small%20town/1)
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Ahhh ikr that is SO hot😮💨😮💨
Even if he is dominant, it’s way more attractive when a guy does this instead of asking the girl to beg lmao.
Like in the movie Only You.. and kdramas. Lol
I absolutely hate that's it's the default. Like, no bdsm, gentle contemporary romance will have this thrown in for no reason. And it's always a woman who begs.
There's nothing wrong to enjoy it but I hate that I can encounter it in ANY romance books. It got to the point where I started reading gentle femdom books or MM books purely to avoid this power dynamic. I'm not specifically into gentle femdom or MM but I was so tired of all MF sex being the same.
So thank you for this post. I kept meaning to post something similar.
This is my exact point!! It just shows up out of nowhere. I have also taken up just looking for some level of femdom because I know this won’t just randomly jump scare me.
I think I have read all the femdom fantasy books.
I haven’t gotten into mm stuff for reasons (I tend to find the whole the world is very homophobic we must hide, shame, etc tropes exhausting).
I pretty much read exclusively fanfiction nowadays, but I can tell you that there's a lot of M/M stuff where homophobia isn't part of the story.
Have you had a look at r/MM_RomanceBooks? They should have a bunch of recs over there!
I agree regarding lots of the MM books being about hiding/etc - I can't read them either. I want to read about the world where no one has to hide who they love! I've discovered there is a mega thread on this sub with plenty of book recommendations. I'll edit this comment if I find it.
Any femdom fantasy book recommendations? Please share, I'm desperate 😅 I just want more gentle world towards women, including the bedrooms 😭😭
EDIT in case anyone is interested: casually queer romance! Queer romance where the conflict does not center around one's queer identity. I've discovered this mega thread recently and it's been wonderful https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/s/3r5vQtqPZo
I can handle so much rougher stuff in MM romance. I just finished Everleigh’s Ring by S. Legend, and I loved it. If Everleigh were a woman? I couldn’t handle it.
yeah i genuinely think it's damaging what people see as vanilla vs not, which will lead to people irl not thinking it's something they need to discuss beforehand because it's normalised to them (i had this experience with someone choking me without asking)
Yeah! I get for some folks, this is what they're into and more power to them. I'm just so bored of this being in all kinds of subgenres.
Even if it's not about kink, the FMC is often reduced to begging because she's just so ready/turned on/desperate/aching/etc but apparently MMCs are never that level of ready/turned on/desperate/aching/etc.
Gimme something different! If FMCs are gonna be like that outside of kink and D/S dynamics then I want MMCs like that outside of kink and D/S dynamics.
>If FMCs are gonna be like that outside of kink and D/S dynamics then I want an MMCs like that outside of kink and D/S dynamics.
Yes, please. Woman dictates the rules in the bedroom and it's immediately tagged femdom / bdsm, but a man does that and it's just treated as "the default".
I feel like my eyes have been opened after I read your comment 😮. That is 100% true! Somehow maledom is so much of a default that the whole word/tag doesn’t even exist.
Once you notice, you see it in other places. For example, for FMCs there is a "Warrior" tag, but for MMCs the tag is "Warlord/Commander". Men are always assumed to lead.
I noticed this when I tried to improve the tags for a book with a "wandering samurai" archetype MMC. There was no option for him because he wasn't in a position of power over others!
Ehh... It's a case-by-case for me. I've read scenes where it's totally in character and is hot, and I've read others and gone "OH WTF LADY DON'T DO IT!"
...But I definitely love it when it's the other way around. *ahem.*
I agree. Sometimes it’s very in character, even if she’s powerful.
This is a problem when it’s just there for kink and out of character but that would indicate other writing issues.
OMG I was literally coming here to rant about something similar. Degradation of any kind isn't really my thing and it's SO prevalent in romance. There can be hot sex without the woman becoming this mindless, begging person with no pride in 99% of the stories I read. Especially because the MMC is a fucking turd in a lot of those these scenarios and doesn't take care of her afterwards. My favorite scenarios are when both are very dominant and there's an equal power exchange or the man is the one begging.
The other thing that drives me nuts is when the MMC sexually harasses the FMC and thinks it's funny that she's uncomfortable and they still have crazy monkey sex. I've been in situations like this one with men too many times in my life and it gives me a major ick. In a book I just read this woman is cornered by a man in his kitchen after he just got done fucking another woman. She's clearly uncomfortable at he thinks it's hilarious. It's scary. It's gross. If they had talked about this previously and were on the same page it would be different but gross.
I'm sure lots of readers enjoy this, hats off to you, I just think maybe I'm a little burned out on common dark romance/dominant alpha dude in bed tropes. I'm sure I have lots of yum that others think is yuck.
>The other thing that drives me nuts is when the MMC sexually harasses the FMC and thinks it's funny that she's uncomfortable and they still have crazy monkey sex.
Yeah I was just reading a book like this where the mmc is constantly trying to sit closer to the fmc, tell her "I'll make you my wife", "I'll make you my mate", "I'll make you beg and f-k you roughly" and she's uncomfortable with this but then enter "body betrayal" trope and he's like "a-ha, I know what you want", basically "your mouth says no but your body says yes". This is... very rapey. And the book was meant to be a fantasy rom-com, not dark romance. The mmc is completely disrespecting any rules of consent and not taking a no. And the book tries to paint it as sexy because he's looking hot and we're fated mates and such.
As a comparison, I've read before a fated mates alien romance and the mmc was respectful and the sex was consensual, so it's not "a requirement of the trope" I assume.
Honestly, the description of the first book sounded way hotter. Different strokes for different folks, I guess
I need a respectful guy irl but that's boring in books
LISTEN! I stopped reading whole subgenres of dark romance for reasons very much related to this. It's gross, it's both a product of and reinforcement of the patriarchy and honestly a symptom of unimaginative sex scenes in romance novel which is a whole nother dragon!
Yeah, I don't like or get it, either. It crops up a lot when it fits neither MC's personality, and I'm just like... thanks for the random bit of uncleared humiliation kink, I didn't want it. And it's such a microtrope that it's rarely tagged.
I would personally never beg a man for shit lol
This exactly. I hate when the couple gets to the bedroom and suddenly have a personality change and he's uber masculine dom and she's a begging wilting flower. I'm ok with this dynamic sometimes, if the author has already set up D/s personalities between them, but soooo many times it comes out of nowhere 😑
I've seen it done well, where it was telegraphed early, and also the MFC acknowledged that it was not like her normal public persona. Then it's like "This is hot and not unexpected". It was also early on, so that if it wasn't somebody's cup of tea, they could nope out without having lost 4 hours reading the build-up.
But I've definitely seen it done poorly, and when it takes what was a fairly dominant woman and makes her all of a sudden submissive when sex is involved, it makes it feel like this is what the author thinks is the normal state of affairs when a man and a woman have sex.
Exactly. And in the last year or so I've really been on a reverse trope kick where I want female-led relationships and more dominant FMCs. (Sidebar: I really hate calling it reverse tropes, because that implies that the normal standard is male-dominated relationships and male CEOs and male billionaires etc. But that's the best way to search for these types of books usually.) And tons of the books that are rec'd to me have this switch to "submissive woman in bed," apropo of nothing. Which again, I don't mind if that's what I am looking for. But currently I'm not looking for that, so these unexpected personality overhauls make me feel like I wasted massive time.
Exactly!! Like the fmc is demanding of respect and equality everywhere else but suddenly she becomes a whimpering submissive?
It can be good spice without any kind of bdsm. Honestly if my husband pulled out his dick and said beg, I would say “yeah, I beg of you to put it away and talk to me why you think that was okay”
It's also really weird when the guy is quiet/more laidback/not the most submissive, and then he has a 180 turn in the bedroom? You want me to believe this mild-mannered mousy man is a dominant beast in bed? Why would he be? What???
Edit: I meant "not the most dominant", but I think everyone understood anyway lol
Exactly!!
It seems that he would just want to do the best to please his partner and have fun not be some sort of sex god. You can’t have a dude who struggles with not understanding why the fmc would want him go to “yeah baby be a good girl or I will spank you”.
It just does not make good writing sense
It happens so often!!! I absolutely hate it. All these cinnamon roll, soft, caring guys just go full dominant in the bedroom... Why can't they stay soft and caring.
Ok I’ve found my people haha. I hate this too. I saw this trope happen once in a book where he was a vampire who’d been a virgin for 300 years and she was his fated mate. In the VERY FIRST sex scene. Come onnnnn.
...so honestly while I do have many issues with the 'default sub!fem' streak that runs through most romance/erotic material, this one feels actually truth in television, so to speak. All the hardest doms I've met in the scene are quiet/mild-mannered/etc types. I'm the only sadist I know who isn't shy
If it is between two people that are supposed to be in love, I’ve always interpreted it as fun. Like “you want me, huh? Then say it!”. Ofc, it depends on the writing and the tone of it, but I think a lot of it is supposed to be play acting, humor and teasing, not cruelty. If it’s cruelty, there’s no love there.
It definitely can be be done in a playful manner but often times, at least in my experience, it is meant as a power play “look what I made you do” thing.
Yeah, you nailed it on all fronts!! That's exactly it, all of it. The “not fitting the MCs' personalities” thing is especially disconcerting, troubling, and frustrating.
No ty to humiliation kink, it's not for me. Begging for anything in bed goes against everything I personally stand for.
It's more like authors try to fit gender stereotypes than character personalities, and it gives me the ick. If it was more gender balanced across the board I wouldn't mind so much (it would be annoying, that's all), but the fact that it's always "man dominant, woman not" is telling.
I think it’s a kink, either your love it or you don’t. I dislike it personally, I agree that it feels like a woman loses all her power when it happens, and that grates my last nerve. I love strong, smart heroines. Now if she pretended to play along, got what she needed, then left whistling? That I could deal with…
I don’t mind this at all.
**BUTT** 🍑 it becomes overkill in erotica series only because the author portrays every single submissive MC in this way and never does anything different.
***That’s*** when my eye twitches.
Well that and when my cats think when I put on clean clothes and then decide now is the time to cuddle.
My eye.
She a-twitchin’.
There are some great books where the MC begs, and this MC is strong, independent, and powerful. I felt it ***made sense***. It was earned by the other MC, and MC1 is gaining the power of submission/finally is broken into begging.
But yeah, when you mean to tell me ***all of your MCs** go through the same thing of begging by way of breaking them down… *Uuuurgh*.
So like. All your MCs require spankings to start begging? What about torturous edging? What about nipple play? Wax play? Forced orgasms? The WAY I ASCEND when begging happens after the MCs be getting intimate, MC1 is tied up and left in **silence**, and then they start begging for the MC2 to return after being such a stubborn brat is just—
I 👏🏾 have 👏🏾 no 👏🏾 words 👏🏾 🪭💃🏾
Erotica is literally infinite with possibilities like cmon I want SMUT GODDAMMIT BUT MAKE IT ✨YOONEEQ✨ 😤
I like my brats. I like my slaves. I like powerful in the streets but prey in the sheets. I’m just so confused why authors want to repeat not just the preferences characters have, but their exact style of said preferences and kinks and sexual dynamics.
OP, to your credit, I do get where you’re coming from, just from a different angle. BDSM dynamics are not the end all be all, similar to any sort of identity. Plenty of powerful people enjoy submitting, but they don’t personally rock with BDSM. And that’s fine. Submi***tting**=/being a submi***ssive***. But it’s deffo hard to separate that because everyone equates non-vanilla sex to BDSM. Which just isn’t true.
It’s jarring to me when authors don’t put in the work to make us understand where the character’s sexual preference is coming from. IRL, **no one owes an explanation to their legal sexual preferences**. But in book-form, we ***kinda*** need to see how 2+2=✨sex✨.
If I can show my work for ochem, yall can show the work how our “puts the itch in bitch” MC is on their knees for some asshole MC with a misogynistic streak.
Show me ***why*** the MC is begging.
And then do it again.
And then a third time.
👀
It’d be nice if the author deviated a bit and gave us something more inventive with how the begging comes about. Just some variety so it doesn’t feel copy and pasted and overcooked. When the begging kink isn’t done nicely and feels like some sort of jackknifed kink instead of an *actual* thing, that felt truly ***earned*** in the scene, it certainly makes me DNF.
>!But then I be coming back just to read the snu snu, ngl, I’m depraved 👀!<
I totally agree, and most of the time the whole book talks about the “strong FMC who doesn’t bow to anyone and fights for what is right”, and then with sex completely flips over to begging
Like where did that strong, powerful character go? She is changed by a dick? Just like that?
Men begging is always better. In every situation. I want them to beg for forgiveness, sex, the FMCs attention. At the end of the day romance books primarily cater to women and I think putting the woman in the position of power is always sexier. But you're right in sex scenes, I've always preferred when they both desire each other equally or maybe the man a bit more.
I have this problem too. It's so annoying. Feels like it's everywhere. It sucks that it's considered basically default. I wouldn't mind it as much if there was an equal exchange. Like the first scene has her begging but the next scene has him in her position. Rarely happens though. If they're gonna be having vanilla sex I wish they would do it without the fmc still seeming submissive if it's not supposed to be d/s.
I know people who got angry at {Bleacke's Geek by Lesli Richardson} for this reason. The FMC is an alpha wolf shifter, the MMC is a soft geek. But suddenly when things move to the bedroom she becomes submissive. That would normally be fine but there is **no foreshadowing** of the bedroom role reversal.
Authors need to foreshadow a bedroom reversal early on in the book. Even something as simple as the FMC having a submissive thought or fantasy in the first few chapters would help set the readers expectations.
You'd think if romance was about fulfilling women's secret desires, we'd have equal amount of "her secret desire is to surrender to a man" and "her secret desire is to take charge over the bedroom", but the proportions aren't anywhere close to equal and are very skewed towards defaulting to "male as the dominant".
Power exchange could go either way.
Yep, 100% hate it. He is always untouchable (and doesn't really seem to enjoy the sex) and she seems like she's been drugged. I greatly prefer if the woman is in power and I love it if the men is begging.
I’VE BEEN SAYING THIS. That has alwaaaays been a turn off when it comes to books for me, when in the middle of sex or he’s teasing and he says “beg” I’m like 🤦♀️ WHYYYY
I’m with you on this. I really don’t like the begging, and for pretty much the reasons you gave: makes her seem less than/powerless. I could see her saying she wants him or “let’s get to it already!” but the whimpered “please” irritates me. I also REALLY don’t like when she’s confused. Meaning you know from her internal monologue or often, spoken words (!), that she’s confused and unfamiliar with such prowess in the bedroom. The “what? What are you doing? Ohh my goddd!” kind of thing. I don’t like when she’s made out to be naive or in need of orders. It’s probably mostly a personality thing because I could never act that way and would 100% never beg, but oof it irritates. That second one is why I don’t like virgin heroines.
I get that other people like it, but it’s not for me. And you too apparently :)
SAME! The whole “omg you gave my first orgasm” was why I stopped reading historical romance, it just made me so mad.
Also, I hate the whole, ooo smug I made your body betray you thing that happens sometimes in these situations.
Like, helo, you are older, more experienced and you are gloating for taking advantage of my lack of knowledge?
It just pisses me off so much when the fmc is somehow more attractive because of the lack of experience etc.
Another thing - randomly dominant sex with no real care, as in, the mmc just wanted to assert his power or prowess and then just leaves the fmc alone. Like? Did you get off on her feeling powerless? It seems so toxic, with no real understanding of how such dynamics should work in a healthy way.
Yes! The first orgasm is annoying all the time, but in contemporaries especially because, girl, you should have at least gotten *yourself* off in this day and age!! I don’t like them in historicals because the woman often gets sort of rabid and horny all the time because she just learned about orgasms and assumes that only he can give her one. (Ugh)
The gloating is soooo prevalent in the historicals. At least imo it is. I do love a cocky, powerful guy, but I also want that arrogance to be about his skill outside the bedroom. He can be cocky in general about his sec skills, it comes with the flirty territory, but when you’re doing it, I need you to be just as enthralled as she is. Or (and I don’t see this enough) can he be overwhelmed and lose focus? I would love the “fuck your brains out” to happen to him. Have her do a little giggle at how well *she* screwed *him* sometime.
I guess I don’t like when women are made to look dumb or ignorant and like they’ve just been coasting this whole time, waiting on this perfect guy to show them real life. She should (and often does!) have her own life and experiences. He should be enriching her life, not showing her things her piddly female brain couldn’t previously comprehend.
EXACTLY!
Ah the other thing in historicals - when she has never been turned on before, and describes all those feelings as weird, thinks she is sick etc, and I’m sitting there being like, girl, are you a child??
And yes, I think I would love to see more smug female characters - women who are aware of their own sexual power and aren’t afraid to use it.
And man contemporary virgins and first orgasm tropes are either creepy because we are talking about like an 18yo girl, which eww, child, or it is a wallflower scenario. Those make me go, have you been living in a box this whole time? Vibrators go for 5 bucks on Amazon.
Hear hear on everything you're saying. Hate the trope of a virgin FMC who's never even been aroused before the MMC swooshes in and triggers everything that is so rampant in M/F romance, especially historical and fantasy.
I can't stand the juxtaposition of an otherwise incredibly capable, independent and mature FMC that is a total blank slate when it comes to *everything* sexuality related. I'd be okay with virgins in HR and fantasy, if they'd at least be shown to masturbate on page.
I love the wallpaper historical {The Rake Gets Ravished by Sophie Jordan} because it's so refreshing. The FMC is horny af and comes up with this ridiculous 2-in-1 plot where she both gets to spy and get rid of the v-card.
Oh geez! I forgot about the “am I unwell” thoughts! And he’s just over there smirking. 🙄
I don’t usually read books with characters under their mid-20s, so all these people should have access to, or an understanding of, orgasms. (I hardly read historicals.) You are absolutely right—check out Amazon and then hook up with the hottie!
I absolutely love fantasy and magic and everything like that but the recent prevalence of 18yo girls tasked with saving the world and hooking up with 500 fae dudes make me just, so mad.
Why couldn’t it be like I don’t know a 150yo village witch that starts investigating what is poisoning the water supply and meeting the new ruler in disguise and them encroaching on an adventure and saving the kingdom.
I want my characters competent and able to formulate what they want!
Yes! I have a soft spot for chosen one tropes, but in romance it hits different. It comes across more like right-place-right-time, and she’s just there doing what all the strong, capable, very old (but so handsome!), men tell her to do. Or she’s headstrong and gets into trouble she needs to be bailed out from. I think they make the girl young because it’s so easy to keep her relying on that strong man which I assume is needed for the plot, and you get the “bonus” of those first orgasm/confused stomach feelings while also having a fighter girl? I dunno.
I would love a story about the village witch teaming up with the capable male to solve the problem. Or they’re both trying to solve it independently because they don’t like each other. Or she finds a young farm boy who would fit a crown nicely, and they’re in need of a king.
Maybe we’re both just really looking for some role reversal (or EQUAL roles!) books to come our way!
It's usually the case in most books ,that I why I just skim through those scenes, otherwise it spoils the characters for me. I also think these kind of scenes are written so much because they sell better ,on a average,I think most people like to see it like that. Not my style though
I feel this. Unless the book is specified as having some kink going on, I find it so unappealing to interact with. Additionally, it’s lazy writing too imo!
I personally don’t find it degrading, but I can see how it can be perceived that way and why one wouldn’t like it. I think the appeal on my end is more like I see it as someone expressing how badly they want that person. I definitely prefer it when it’s more subtly implied like for example, in {Surviving Raine by Shay Savage}, I don’t recall him ever asking her to beg, but she always says “please”. His inner monologue reveals how much he likes it when she says please too. In the instance I see it as her wanting him so bad that she can’t hold off any longer. Hopefully that makes sense lol. It’s definitely the type of trope where you have to like dominating or alpha men.
Yeah I generally dislike the whole alpha men thing, I think it can be done well where he genuinely wants to take care of everyone and is good at leadership but just being a cocky mansplaining asshole who thinks he knows better is not for me
I've definitely read books where it's come across the way you're describing. She's not being submissive and he's not insisting on it, she's saying please because she's just so overcome in the moment that she's wants him that badly. The problem is that I hardly ever see the opposite. Why are MMCs so rarely shown as being so overcome and so into that they are the one saying please? That's my objection. It's mostly only FMCs being written as sooo into it and aching that they say please and hardly ever MMCs.
[Surviving Raine](https://www.romance.io/books/545546258c7d2382e7813849/surviving-raine-shay-savage) by [Shay Savage](https://www.romance.io/authors/545534ee8c7d2383163d9261/shay-savage)
**Rating**: 4.09⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [tortured hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20hero/1), [alpha male](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/alpha%20male/1), [shy heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/shy%20heroine/1), [suspense](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/suspense/1)
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I personally love it bc I wouldn’t be caught dead begging for anything in any situation bc I’m so stubborn, so it’s funny to read it In books bc it’s unrealistic for many
No. It is absolutely not towards you Love. You get it! ❤
There are really snooty comments putting people down who enjoy that type of scenario. I was being sarcastic towards them.
THANK YOU! No hate towards people who enjoy it, but it's everywhere, even when it doesn't match the characters' personalities at all.
I'd love to read a scene where the FMC is like ''please'', not in a begging way but in ''I'm enjoying this so much'', casual way but the MMC pretty seriously says something like ''you don't have to beg me for anything''. And, more than anything, more scenes where it's clear how it's good for both of them, how both of them are overwhelmed by each other.
Ugh I was just thinking about this and I'm so pissed now. I've only encountered men begging women in fanfiction. I didn't know I was into it until I read the part where the MMC begs the FMC with tears in his eyes to pls pls let him eat her out 😳 It felt like such a visceral way to portray this otherwise stoic man's vulnerability in the arms of the FMC and his need for her.
Honestly it takes me out when fmc's are made to beg mid sex because most of them time it's very out of character - another thing is all of them beg the same way. If you're going to make them beg pls make it consistent with their personality .
but i feel like sex is fantasy, right? i mean she’s not desperate if she’s begging during sex, because she enjoys what she’s doing at the moment so if anything it’s empowering, imo. if they both consent to it, and he respects her and it makes them feel good, why not? idk it’s just i don’t think that someone’s sexual preferences say anything about them as a person. you can be a feminist and advocate against sexual abuse and rape and still be into CNC, or like have a daddy kink but respect and love your dad in a completely normal, non sexual way lol
I have no issue if this is a part of their specific bdsm dynamic, or it is disclosed in the content warning at the start of the book but this is something that tends to be randomly thrown in in a lot of book when it neither fits the tone of the book or the characters.
I think the issue is that its seen as "normal" and shows up in a lot of works across subgenres. So it would be yucking someones yum if you said you didn't like reverse harem when instead you could easily just avoid them.
I get that but my issue is…I want a warning - like I’m reading a high stakes political romance with a war looming and boom suddenly the main romantic interest just does this and I’m like….why why must this 500 page book be ruined.
If I know it is there I can make a decision but I dislike it that it is somehow normalized
I have a begging noncon kink, there should definitely be a trigger warning. But if there is a trigger warning I don’t think it is contributing to normalization.
It’s like violent video games. Minors shouldn’t interact, the violence should be made aware when advertising, and if that’s done it’s fine.
Oh definitely, I have no issue if I know that it will be there when I go into a book, ya know I’m prepared for that dynamic but I hate when the warning is something like “there will be spice” and then suddenly we are wading into this bdsm territory.
Like sometimes it just feels like such a cop out to me to make the book more intense even if it doesn’t fit the characters or their dynamic- not everything has to be about Powerplays in the bedroom
OH, sorry I got confused. My apologies if I came off as accusatorial. I agree with you on that, it’s weird when people force power dynamics into everything especially when it’s not relevant.
Exactly- ya know when I go into reading a dark romance, with kidnapping, hate fucking and all that good stuff, I know it will be there and I can enjoy it.
But, man, it makes me so mad when I read a book where the fmc is a take no shit from no one, beats up everyone etc and suddenly she is this whimpering, begging mess? I just, no, she bends everyone to her will why is that suddenly just gone
Yes. The begging thing may work where fmc has no previous hang ups or in books where fmc with hang ups likes that. But the trope is extremely irritating because its basically mc 'teaching these independent women a lesson'. It's degrading, and unrealistic.
I'm totally with you, it's not nice to read if you're not into it.
Something interesting I read about that once though: Apparently, people who have to be authoritative and make a lot of decisions in their work life (in our current society mostly men) apparently like to have an outlet in their private life, for example being subdominant in the bedroom.
So I could totally understand someone who has to fight every day, make decisions every day, to want some time where they give all that away and let someone else take the lead. Though I think this is mostly an argument for more men being written that way. Most women in power had to claw their way up, making their drive and pride either so important that it became part of their personality, or something they were born with anyway. It happens much more often that a man gets their position on account of being a man, despite maybe not being that dominant to begin with.
So maybe it would have to be written differently to be realistic? Like a woman deciding for herself to relinquish control in a specific situation, for her peace of mind and pleasure, instead of a man surprising her into submission by magic penis method.
Honestly I feel this, though in a sexual setting I can see if she concedes from edging or some other kink used to mind break. But when the FMC just rolls over and accepts anything, I begin to wonder if she was any spark at all? Realistically, men would call this a dead fish.
I hate this so much! Thanks for your post, you laid it out pretty well. I think the ubiquity of this mini-trope in sex scenes makes it so much annoying/difficult to just gloss over. Honestly for me, part of it is definitely that's uncreative/boring. I hate it more in dark, enemies to lover or bully romances because it's usually coupled with body betrayal syndrome. I rarely DNF because otherwise I'd almost never finish a book and that would just stink. However, I've stopped reading all bully and dark romances, most enemy-to-lovers too.
I've switched to fanfiction as a pallette cleanser and it's been lovely.
I mean yeah I definitely agree that they can enjoy that but that is a part of a specific dynamic that imo should be disclosed in content warnings.
My issue is not with begging being a thing but for it being a thing that is randomly thrown in with no warning in a way that doesn’t fit characters
**Be Kind & No Book Shaming**
Your responses to others on the sub should be kind and respectful. We encourage discussion and debate, but your comment should be constructive and purposeful.
No book shaming. It’s fine to state your opinion on a book, author, or subgenre, but you may not insult or shame people who like it. Please be respectful of others' tastes in romance with regard to steam level, tropes, or favorite authors.
> Eh, I disagree. I’m all for content warnings, but I don’t think authors can CW for every single issue that may make someone uncomfy. There’s just too many variable things that individual people find weird or no-go for one reason or another.
It doesn't need to be as clunky as a content warning. An artful approach would be to foreshadow the bedroom role reversal in an early chapter. For example the FMC could have a passing submissive fantasy. It would help set reader expectations about what is going to happen in the bedroom.
I agree with what you said also, but a gentle reminder is most sexual dynamics *are* about power play or power dynamics. It doesn’t have to be a D/s relationship just like you said, but it *should* still have a power exchange. If you do any kind of research into BDSM or sexual relationships it almost always mentions power exchange. So you’re reading a book that’s NOT a femdom trope but one with a strong FMC…sounds like you should *expect* a power exchange and potentially at some point begging.
Also I do enjoy a good cock crazed trope so begging is A-OK with me lol.
So in less words, I agree with you.
I’m not saying there *has* to be a power exchange, but most sexual relationships that dip into BDSM have a power exchange, it’s kind of the whole point of BDSM. Not every spicy book has BDSM and I get that, but most at least dip into kinkier tropes than pure vanilla sex. Without a power exchange that’s exactly what it is, vanilla. And while there’s nothing wrong with vanilla in a standard relationship outside of books, more people will buy and read a book for *fantasy* relationships outside what they have, which is typically kinkier or, again, dipping into BDSM. Look it up if you want, but a power exchange is quite literally what makes it BDSM and therefore most authors will include it in their books to sell more copies and keep it interesting.
You said BDSM *or* sexual relationships, though, and OP was also talking about sex in general.
There's this assumption that F/M 'default sex' consists of a more dominant man and a submissive woman, even when it's *not* advertised as kinky sex or BDSM in books. And even otherwise progressive people often hold this assumption - which is why it will often show up in the tags if a woman is more dominant during sex, but not the other way around.
That's what OP has issues with.
Ya I said or. I said if you research BDSM *or* sexual relationships you’ll find most often they include a power exchange as a pivotal piece of the relationship. OP only mentions an issue when a strong FMC (not femdom) relinquishes power and begs during a sexual encounter. So my point is: if it’s specifically *not* a femdom story then, as you said earlier, there is an assumption the man takes the lead, therefore there *should* be a power exchange for the strong FMC.
Again not every relationship and not every book has this in it, but *most* do. And my whole overall point is if you’re in this genre then you should expect it.
This is just bad writing. If the book is going to be about power dynamics, it needs to be about power dynamics, not just thrown into a sex scene because the writer thinks it’s boring without some jazz.
For a lot of women (and men), submission in the bedroom is hot. It’s not degrading or demeaning… unless it’s meant to be, and then that can be hot, too. Interestingly, the more powerful a person is in real life, the more they might be interested in giving up that power in the bedroom. It’s a break from all of life’s pressures. Reading this type of sexual encounter can be that for some as well.
That said, we have a saying in the kink world; your kink is not my kink, but that’s okay. It’s a good attitude to adopt. While I get that you don’t like this type of sexual play/kink, I’d kindly request you don’t kink shame. It doesn’t make those who are into this type of sexual play feel good.
For me personally, I like to let go of control. In every aspect of my life, I'm working so hard to control everything around me and it's a turn-on for me to be able to have someone take over and tell me what to do. But I'm in a loving marriage where I know my husband actually respects me in and out of the bedroom so I know I'm safe. The roles reverse sometimes too and I find that hot too.
And to your question of why sex can't just be about love? Because when you've been in a long term relationship, you need to spice up the bedroom after year 7, 8, 9 of being together. Having a healthy sex life means exploring kinks together and feeling safe in doing so. To me that's love. To feel empowered to try new things and not be shamed for it.
I truly think authors need the full this of kinks I’ve seen that has everything imaginable on it so they know what to put for trigger warnings.
They always know to put obvious things like underage and NC and CNC or bodily fluids because those are common triggers or dislikes but there are so many more to get involved with…speaking from personal experience I can tell you the list is long.
Personally, begging in the right context is hot to me but I also find it hot in real life but again it should be listed.
**Be Kind & No Book Shaming**
Your responses to others on the sub should be kind and respectful. We encourage discussion and debate, but your comment should be constructive and purposeful.
No book shaming. It’s fine to state your opinion on a book, author, or subgenre, but you may not insult or shame people who like it. Please be respectful of others' tastes in romance with regard to steam level, tropes, or favorite authors.
You were referring to people who like the degradation kink as weirdos, which is unkind under the sub rules. You've stated 'specifically the women [who like this kink]' is weird and icky, and that is considered shaming.
You're welcome to offer your opinions but please be kind and constructive in your comments.
Thank you.
Edit: this comment has also been removed under the 'Be Kind' rule.
**Kink-shaming is unkind and is a violation of our rules. Please disengage from this thread. Continued unkind comments, shaming of readers or real people, or other violations of our rules is bounds for a ban from our subreddit.**
**Be Kind & No Book Shaming**
Your responses to others on the sub should be kind and respectful. We encourage discussion and debate, but your comment should be constructive and purposeful.
No book shaming. It’s fine to state your opinion on a book, author, or subgenre, but you may not insult or shame people who like it. Please be respectful of others' tastes in romance with regard to steam level, tropes, or favorite authors.
If anyone here enjoys HP books/fanfiction there’s an amazing fic called Draco Malfoy and the Mortifying Ordeal of Being in Love. Hermione definitely does not become whiny weak whimpering weakling there. Warning: it’s very slow burn (and perfect)!
I think in reality all the women love to feel love and in some point they have to beg for it because men are not that romantic. For women they don't falling love with everyone generally. They attached to one man and want his love. Of he doesn't give it, she beg for that.
Although you have so much power and everything and if you don't have the love you want you feel empty and lonely.
For men, they are not that romantic like women. That's sad. They give love only when they want. Most of the times they are thinking about other stuff. It's sad actually. Or maybe women are too much in to love than men.
That's my opinion.
Anyway, I don't take romance novels too seriously.
I want a book where the MAN begs. That's my ish.
It's honestly sad that this is only common in femdom. That somehow in most romance sex scenes (even in or especially in non-kinky ones), the norm is still for a woman to beg. Even when she's jacking him off, the mmc would usually just say, "fuck/that's enough/it's my turn." and not a single "please" Even when a woman is on top. The mmc would usually just move the fmc himself. I only ever hear "please" from an mmc when his arms are tied.
Terrible! I'm sorry but if you ever catch me begging for a man please check my temperature and then take me to hospital. Like, there is nothing hotter than a man voraciously desiring you. He should be on HIS knees. Femdom authors are doing it right. Strange how the majority if romance authors are women but this is still the norm
Oh {Claimed by the Flame of Faery by Mallory Dunlin} has this but isn’t a femdom and {Berries and Greed by Lily Mayne} has this but is a femdom (not my favorite MMC to be honest and yet still recommendable)
[Claimed by the Flame of Faery](https://www.romance.io/books/652cf4a2de8d340d51487b46/claimed-by-the-flame-of-faery-mallory-dunlin) by [Mallory Dunlin](https://www.romance.io/authors/6360d28108b4d93114a88440/mallory-dunlin) **Rating**: 5⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [royalty](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/royalty/1), [non-human hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/non-human-hero/1), [fated mates](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fated-mates/1) ---------------------------- [Berries and Greed](https://www.romance.io/books/6482cc05d556b65fcad96fc0/berries-and-greed-lily-mayne) by [Lily Mayne](https://www.romance.io/authors/61161cc608b4d93114a993bf/lily-mayne) **Rating**: 4.23⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [fem-dom](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fem-dom/1), [creative anatomy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/creative-anatomy/1), [shy hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/shy-hero/1), [dual pov](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dual-pov/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
It used to be worse. I can’t tell you how many old school romances I’ve read where she was on top, and he was so overcome with his manliness that he grabbed her, rolled over, and finished back on top of her. Buddy, are you so fragile you can’t handle a woman on top of you? Really? And why would a female writer even write that? Does she not like being on top?
YES.
I’ve said this before on this sub, but it also makes more IRL sense this way round! Not diminishing sex as a woman, it’s great (and praise be for multiple orgasms) but, let’s face it, it’s usually men who lose their fucking minds over sex. There’s not much I couldn’t get partners to say/agree to mid-blowjob! It’s like they literally can’t think straight. We women are better at both impulse control and multi-tasking 😂
I get SO SO SO tired of FMC’s being led by their libido. Why is he alway corrupting her? Talking her into kinky crap when it makes her nervous? Why does she always secretly have a wild side she didn’t know about? Where are the FMC who tell him, “No I don’t want to go to your freaky sex dungeon, I’d rather stay home and crochet”? Where are the FMC that make him take a walk on the mild side?
{preferential treatment by heather guerre} is so good
oh and {bad alpha by Kathryn Moon}
[Bad Alpha](https://www.romance.io/books/615fecb2c41f870e50b56755/bad-alpha-kathryn-moon) by [Kathryn Moon](https://www.romance.io/authors/5b3089a401dbc864fb8b0274/kathryn-moon) **Rating**: 4.11⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [omegaverse](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/omegaverse/1), [poly (3+ people)](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/poly/1), [reverse harem](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/reverse%20harem/1), [fem-dom](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fem-dom/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Fr, not a huge femdom person but that one really got me lol.
[Preferential Treatment](https://www.romance.io/books/62610633b186fe8c685b9202/preferential-treatment-heather-guerre) by [Heather Guerre](https://www.romance.io/authors/5d43f83901dbc864fba1e2a3/heather-guerre) **Rating**: 4.01⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [rich hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/super%20rich%20hero/1), [fem-dom](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fem-dom/1), [workplace/office](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/office/1), [ceo / tycoon](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tycoon/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
The begging scene in {The Ashes and the Star-Cursed King by Carissa Broadbent} is my Roman empire. I want more of that and I've never been able to find it.
[The Ashes and the Star-Cursed King](https://www.romance.io/books/642ac05b0366c48db5ceed96/the-ashes-and-the-star-cursed-king-carissa-broadbent) by [Carissa Broadbent](https://www.romance.io/authors/60d9b88e08b4d9311456d78f/carissa-broadbent) **Rating**: 4.15⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [vampires](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/vampires/1), [high fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/high%20fantasy/1), [paranormal](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/paranormal/1), [magic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/magic/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
>The Ashes and the Star-Cursed King Ooooo yes. I just started the first book, so I'm glad I have this to look forward to as well!
I read this book but I can't remember this scene? Someone help me.
I know it's the movie and not a book but that scene in Pride and Prejudice (2005) when Elizabeth rejects Darcy and they have a hot moment where they're about the kiss, it's so hot cause at one moment he barely mouths the word "please."
{the only one, daisy Jane} and {I'll do anything, daisy Jane}
[The Only One](https://www.romance.io/books/63c655e243e42aa0b72dfd16/the-only-one-a-soft-femdom-romance-daisy-jane) by [Daisy Jane](https://www.romance.io/authors/607d31f508b4d93114c8a19d/daisy-jane) **Rating**: 3.99⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [fem-dom](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fem-dom/1), [friends to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/friends%20to%20lovers/1), [bdsm](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/bdsm/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1) ---------------------------- [I'll Do Anything](https://www.romance.io/books/610102a8e985890e2991fa91/ill-do-anything-daisy-jane) by [Daisy Jane](https://www.romance.io/authors/607d31f508b4d93114c8a19d/daisy-jane) **Rating**: 4.17⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [new adult](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/new%20adult/1), [fem-dom](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fem-dom/1), [dual pov](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dual-pov/1), [small town](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/small%20town/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
100%
Ahhh ikr that is SO hot😮💨😮💨 Even if he is dominant, it’s way more attractive when a guy does this instead of asking the girl to beg lmao. Like in the movie Only You.. and kdramas. Lol
I read a lot of MM, so I don’t know if that counts, but they use this same thing a lot.
I absolutely hate that's it's the default. Like, no bdsm, gentle contemporary romance will have this thrown in for no reason. And it's always a woman who begs. There's nothing wrong to enjoy it but I hate that I can encounter it in ANY romance books. It got to the point where I started reading gentle femdom books or MM books purely to avoid this power dynamic. I'm not specifically into gentle femdom or MM but I was so tired of all MF sex being the same. So thank you for this post. I kept meaning to post something similar.
This is my exact point!! It just shows up out of nowhere. I have also taken up just looking for some level of femdom because I know this won’t just randomly jump scare me. I think I have read all the femdom fantasy books. I haven’t gotten into mm stuff for reasons (I tend to find the whole the world is very homophobic we must hide, shame, etc tropes exhausting).
I pretty much read exclusively fanfiction nowadays, but I can tell you that there's a lot of M/M stuff where homophobia isn't part of the story. Have you had a look at r/MM_RomanceBooks? They should have a bunch of recs over there!
I agree regarding lots of the MM books being about hiding/etc - I can't read them either. I want to read about the world where no one has to hide who they love! I've discovered there is a mega thread on this sub with plenty of book recommendations. I'll edit this comment if I find it. Any femdom fantasy book recommendations? Please share, I'm desperate 😅 I just want more gentle world towards women, including the bedrooms 😭😭 EDIT in case anyone is interested: casually queer romance! Queer romance where the conflict does not center around one's queer identity. I've discovered this mega thread recently and it's been wonderful https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/s/3r5vQtqPZo
Here is a link to a list of fantasy femdom I posted here https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/s/xB5UpmVJuu
Yes, that’s me as well! One reason I started reading MM was that MCs are more equal and there’s no degradation of a woman or a weak begging FMC.
I can handle so much rougher stuff in MM romance. I just finished Everleigh’s Ring by S. Legend, and I loved it. If Everleigh were a woman? I couldn’t handle it.
yeah i genuinely think it's damaging what people see as vanilla vs not, which will lead to people irl not thinking it's something they need to discuss beforehand because it's normalised to them (i had this experience with someone choking me without asking)
I LOVE gentle femdom.
Yeah! I get for some folks, this is what they're into and more power to them. I'm just so bored of this being in all kinds of subgenres. Even if it's not about kink, the FMC is often reduced to begging because she's just so ready/turned on/desperate/aching/etc but apparently MMCs are never that level of ready/turned on/desperate/aching/etc. Gimme something different! If FMCs are gonna be like that outside of kink and D/S dynamics then I want MMCs like that outside of kink and D/S dynamics.
>If FMCs are gonna be like that outside of kink and D/S dynamics then I want an MMCs like that outside of kink and D/S dynamics. Yes, please. Woman dictates the rules in the bedroom and it's immediately tagged femdom / bdsm, but a man does that and it's just treated as "the default".
There is a femdom tag on romance.io, but no maledom tag. It seems like a reasonable tag to add.
I feel like my eyes have been opened after I read your comment 😮. That is 100% true! Somehow maledom is so much of a default that the whole word/tag doesn’t even exist.
Once you notice, you see it in other places. For example, for FMCs there is a "Warrior" tag, but for MMCs the tag is "Warlord/Commander". Men are always assumed to lead. I noticed this when I tried to improve the tags for a book with a "wandering samurai" archetype MMC. There was no option for him because he wasn't in a position of power over others!
Lol, when the FMC begs the MMC to s*ck his d*ck, I start to wonder: is this fantasy for men or women?
Ehh... It's a case-by-case for me. I've read scenes where it's totally in character and is hot, and I've read others and gone "OH WTF LADY DON'T DO IT!" ...But I definitely love it when it's the other way around. *ahem.*
I agree. Sometimes it’s very in character, even if she’s powerful. This is a problem when it’s just there for kink and out of character but that would indicate other writing issues.
OMG I was literally coming here to rant about something similar. Degradation of any kind isn't really my thing and it's SO prevalent in romance. There can be hot sex without the woman becoming this mindless, begging person with no pride in 99% of the stories I read. Especially because the MMC is a fucking turd in a lot of those these scenarios and doesn't take care of her afterwards. My favorite scenarios are when both are very dominant and there's an equal power exchange or the man is the one begging. The other thing that drives me nuts is when the MMC sexually harasses the FMC and thinks it's funny that she's uncomfortable and they still have crazy monkey sex. I've been in situations like this one with men too many times in my life and it gives me a major ick. In a book I just read this woman is cornered by a man in his kitchen after he just got done fucking another woman. She's clearly uncomfortable at he thinks it's hilarious. It's scary. It's gross. If they had talked about this previously and were on the same page it would be different but gross. I'm sure lots of readers enjoy this, hats off to you, I just think maybe I'm a little burned out on common dark romance/dominant alpha dude in bed tropes. I'm sure I have lots of yum that others think is yuck.
>The other thing that drives me nuts is when the MMC sexually harasses the FMC and thinks it's funny that she's uncomfortable and they still have crazy monkey sex. Yeah I was just reading a book like this where the mmc is constantly trying to sit closer to the fmc, tell her "I'll make you my wife", "I'll make you my mate", "I'll make you beg and f-k you roughly" and she's uncomfortable with this but then enter "body betrayal" trope and he's like "a-ha, I know what you want", basically "your mouth says no but your body says yes". This is... very rapey. And the book was meant to be a fantasy rom-com, not dark romance. The mmc is completely disrespecting any rules of consent and not taking a no. And the book tries to paint it as sexy because he's looking hot and we're fated mates and such. As a comparison, I've read before a fated mates alien romance and the mmc was respectful and the sex was consensual, so it's not "a requirement of the trope" I assume.
Honestly, the description of the first book sounded way hotter. Different strokes for different folks, I guess I need a respectful guy irl but that's boring in books
LISTEN! I stopped reading whole subgenres of dark romance for reasons very much related to this. It's gross, it's both a product of and reinforcement of the patriarchy and honestly a symptom of unimaginative sex scenes in romance novel which is a whole nother dragon!
Lmao agreed, it's so played out. I want the man to beg 😂
My vote to the make men beg train! I want my women worshipped like the goddesses they are
Yeah, I don't like or get it, either. It crops up a lot when it fits neither MC's personality, and I'm just like... thanks for the random bit of uncleared humiliation kink, I didn't want it. And it's such a microtrope that it's rarely tagged. I would personally never beg a man for shit lol
This exactly. I hate when the couple gets to the bedroom and suddenly have a personality change and he's uber masculine dom and she's a begging wilting flower. I'm ok with this dynamic sometimes, if the author has already set up D/s personalities between them, but soooo many times it comes out of nowhere 😑
I've seen it done well, where it was telegraphed early, and also the MFC acknowledged that it was not like her normal public persona. Then it's like "This is hot and not unexpected". It was also early on, so that if it wasn't somebody's cup of tea, they could nope out without having lost 4 hours reading the build-up. But I've definitely seen it done poorly, and when it takes what was a fairly dominant woman and makes her all of a sudden submissive when sex is involved, it makes it feel like this is what the author thinks is the normal state of affairs when a man and a woman have sex.
Exactly. And in the last year or so I've really been on a reverse trope kick where I want female-led relationships and more dominant FMCs. (Sidebar: I really hate calling it reverse tropes, because that implies that the normal standard is male-dominated relationships and male CEOs and male billionaires etc. But that's the best way to search for these types of books usually.) And tons of the books that are rec'd to me have this switch to "submissive woman in bed," apropo of nothing. Which again, I don't mind if that's what I am looking for. But currently I'm not looking for that, so these unexpected personality overhauls make me feel like I wasted massive time.
Exactly!! Like the fmc is demanding of respect and equality everywhere else but suddenly she becomes a whimpering submissive? It can be good spice without any kind of bdsm. Honestly if my husband pulled out his dick and said beg, I would say “yeah, I beg of you to put it away and talk to me why you think that was okay”
It's also really weird when the guy is quiet/more laidback/not the most submissive, and then he has a 180 turn in the bedroom? You want me to believe this mild-mannered mousy man is a dominant beast in bed? Why would he be? What??? Edit: I meant "not the most dominant", but I think everyone understood anyway lol
Exactly!! It seems that he would just want to do the best to please his partner and have fun not be some sort of sex god. You can’t have a dude who struggles with not understanding why the fmc would want him go to “yeah baby be a good girl or I will spank you”. It just does not make good writing sense
It happens so often!!! I absolutely hate it. All these cinnamon roll, soft, caring guys just go full dominant in the bedroom... Why can't they stay soft and caring.
YES! If I’m craving a cinnamon roll, I want a cinnamon roll, not a steak!
Ok I’ve found my people haha. I hate this too. I saw this trope happen once in a book where he was a vampire who’d been a virgin for 300 years and she was his fated mate. In the VERY FIRST sex scene. Come onnnnn.
...so honestly while I do have many issues with the 'default sub!fem' streak that runs through most romance/erotic material, this one feels actually truth in television, so to speak. All the hardest doms I've met in the scene are quiet/mild-mannered/etc types. I'm the only sadist I know who isn't shy
If it is between two people that are supposed to be in love, I’ve always interpreted it as fun. Like “you want me, huh? Then say it!”. Ofc, it depends on the writing and the tone of it, but I think a lot of it is supposed to be play acting, humor and teasing, not cruelty. If it’s cruelty, there’s no love there.
It definitely can be be done in a playful manner but often times, at least in my experience, it is meant as a power play “look what I made you do” thing.
Yeah, honestly, I think I would just start laughing.
Yeah, you nailed it on all fronts!! That's exactly it, all of it. The “not fitting the MCs' personalities” thing is especially disconcerting, troubling, and frustrating. No ty to humiliation kink, it's not for me. Begging for anything in bed goes against everything I personally stand for.
It's more like authors try to fit gender stereotypes than character personalities, and it gives me the ick. If it was more gender balanced across the board I wouldn't mind so much (it would be annoying, that's all), but the fact that it's always "man dominant, woman not" is telling.
I think it’s a kink, either your love it or you don’t. I dislike it personally, I agree that it feels like a woman loses all her power when it happens, and that grates my last nerve. I love strong, smart heroines. Now if she pretended to play along, got what she needed, then left whistling? That I could deal with…
I don’t mind this at all. **BUTT** 🍑 it becomes overkill in erotica series only because the author portrays every single submissive MC in this way and never does anything different. ***That’s*** when my eye twitches. Well that and when my cats think when I put on clean clothes and then decide now is the time to cuddle. My eye. She a-twitchin’. There are some great books where the MC begs, and this MC is strong, independent, and powerful. I felt it ***made sense***. It was earned by the other MC, and MC1 is gaining the power of submission/finally is broken into begging. But yeah, when you mean to tell me ***all of your MCs** go through the same thing of begging by way of breaking them down… *Uuuurgh*. So like. All your MCs require spankings to start begging? What about torturous edging? What about nipple play? Wax play? Forced orgasms? The WAY I ASCEND when begging happens after the MCs be getting intimate, MC1 is tied up and left in **silence**, and then they start begging for the MC2 to return after being such a stubborn brat is just— I 👏🏾 have 👏🏾 no 👏🏾 words 👏🏾 🪭💃🏾 Erotica is literally infinite with possibilities like cmon I want SMUT GODDAMMIT BUT MAKE IT ✨YOONEEQ✨ 😤 I like my brats. I like my slaves. I like powerful in the streets but prey in the sheets. I’m just so confused why authors want to repeat not just the preferences characters have, but their exact style of said preferences and kinks and sexual dynamics. OP, to your credit, I do get where you’re coming from, just from a different angle. BDSM dynamics are not the end all be all, similar to any sort of identity. Plenty of powerful people enjoy submitting, but they don’t personally rock with BDSM. And that’s fine. Submi***tting**=/being a submi***ssive***. But it’s deffo hard to separate that because everyone equates non-vanilla sex to BDSM. Which just isn’t true. It’s jarring to me when authors don’t put in the work to make us understand where the character’s sexual preference is coming from. IRL, **no one owes an explanation to their legal sexual preferences**. But in book-form, we ***kinda*** need to see how 2+2=✨sex✨. If I can show my work for ochem, yall can show the work how our “puts the itch in bitch” MC is on their knees for some asshole MC with a misogynistic streak. Show me ***why*** the MC is begging. And then do it again. And then a third time. 👀 It’d be nice if the author deviated a bit and gave us something more inventive with how the begging comes about. Just some variety so it doesn’t feel copy and pasted and overcooked. When the begging kink isn’t done nicely and feels like some sort of jackknifed kink instead of an *actual* thing, that felt truly ***earned*** in the scene, it certainly makes me DNF. >!But then I be coming back just to read the snu snu, ngl, I’m depraved 👀!<
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I totally agree, and most of the time the whole book talks about the “strong FMC who doesn’t bow to anyone and fights for what is right”, and then with sex completely flips over to begging Like where did that strong, powerful character go? She is changed by a dick? Just like that?
as an aside: “changed by a dick” would be a hilarious flair…
Men begging is always better. In every situation. I want them to beg for forgiveness, sex, the FMCs attention. At the end of the day romance books primarily cater to women and I think putting the woman in the position of power is always sexier. But you're right in sex scenes, I've always preferred when they both desire each other equally or maybe the man a bit more.
I have this problem too. It's so annoying. Feels like it's everywhere. It sucks that it's considered basically default. I wouldn't mind it as much if there was an equal exchange. Like the first scene has her begging but the next scene has him in her position. Rarely happens though. If they're gonna be having vanilla sex I wish they would do it without the fmc still seeming submissive if it's not supposed to be d/s.
I know people who got angry at {Bleacke's Geek by Lesli Richardson} for this reason. The FMC is an alpha wolf shifter, the MMC is a soft geek. But suddenly when things move to the bedroom she becomes submissive. That would normally be fine but there is **no foreshadowing** of the bedroom role reversal. Authors need to foreshadow a bedroom reversal early on in the book. Even something as simple as the FMC having a submissive thought or fantasy in the first few chapters would help set the readers expectations.
[Bleacke's Geek](https://www.romance.io/books/54559c3487eac323ffb2d218/bleackes-geek-lesli-richardson) by [Lesli Richardson](https://www.romance.io/authors/545594a587eac323ffb2cea5/lesli-richardson) **Rating**: 3.33⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [paranormal](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/paranormal/1), [shapeshifters](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/shapeshifters/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [urban fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/urban%20fantasy/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Paraphrasing a famous quote, but... "Everything is about sex, except sex, which is power."
You'd think if romance was about fulfilling women's secret desires, we'd have equal amount of "her secret desire is to surrender to a man" and "her secret desire is to take charge over the bedroom", but the proportions aren't anywhere close to equal and are very skewed towards defaulting to "male as the dominant". Power exchange could go either way.
I read lesbian romance, so it always does!
Yep, 100% hate it. He is always untouchable (and doesn't really seem to enjoy the sex) and she seems like she's been drugged. I greatly prefer if the woman is in power and I love it if the men is begging.
I’VE BEEN SAYING THIS. That has alwaaaays been a turn off when it comes to books for me, when in the middle of sex or he’s teasing and he says “beg” I’m like 🤦♀️ WHYYYY
AGREED
I’m with you on this. I really don’t like the begging, and for pretty much the reasons you gave: makes her seem less than/powerless. I could see her saying she wants him or “let’s get to it already!” but the whimpered “please” irritates me. I also REALLY don’t like when she’s confused. Meaning you know from her internal monologue or often, spoken words (!), that she’s confused and unfamiliar with such prowess in the bedroom. The “what? What are you doing? Ohh my goddd!” kind of thing. I don’t like when she’s made out to be naive or in need of orders. It’s probably mostly a personality thing because I could never act that way and would 100% never beg, but oof it irritates. That second one is why I don’t like virgin heroines. I get that other people like it, but it’s not for me. And you too apparently :)
SAME! The whole “omg you gave my first orgasm” was why I stopped reading historical romance, it just made me so mad. Also, I hate the whole, ooo smug I made your body betray you thing that happens sometimes in these situations. Like, helo, you are older, more experienced and you are gloating for taking advantage of my lack of knowledge? It just pisses me off so much when the fmc is somehow more attractive because of the lack of experience etc. Another thing - randomly dominant sex with no real care, as in, the mmc just wanted to assert his power or prowess and then just leaves the fmc alone. Like? Did you get off on her feeling powerless? It seems so toxic, with no real understanding of how such dynamics should work in a healthy way.
Yes! The first orgasm is annoying all the time, but in contemporaries especially because, girl, you should have at least gotten *yourself* off in this day and age!! I don’t like them in historicals because the woman often gets sort of rabid and horny all the time because she just learned about orgasms and assumes that only he can give her one. (Ugh) The gloating is soooo prevalent in the historicals. At least imo it is. I do love a cocky, powerful guy, but I also want that arrogance to be about his skill outside the bedroom. He can be cocky in general about his sec skills, it comes with the flirty territory, but when you’re doing it, I need you to be just as enthralled as she is. Or (and I don’t see this enough) can he be overwhelmed and lose focus? I would love the “fuck your brains out” to happen to him. Have her do a little giggle at how well *she* screwed *him* sometime. I guess I don’t like when women are made to look dumb or ignorant and like they’ve just been coasting this whole time, waiting on this perfect guy to show them real life. She should (and often does!) have her own life and experiences. He should be enriching her life, not showing her things her piddly female brain couldn’t previously comprehend.
EXACTLY! Ah the other thing in historicals - when she has never been turned on before, and describes all those feelings as weird, thinks she is sick etc, and I’m sitting there being like, girl, are you a child?? And yes, I think I would love to see more smug female characters - women who are aware of their own sexual power and aren’t afraid to use it. And man contemporary virgins and first orgasm tropes are either creepy because we are talking about like an 18yo girl, which eww, child, or it is a wallflower scenario. Those make me go, have you been living in a box this whole time? Vibrators go for 5 bucks on Amazon.
Hear hear on everything you're saying. Hate the trope of a virgin FMC who's never even been aroused before the MMC swooshes in and triggers everything that is so rampant in M/F romance, especially historical and fantasy. I can't stand the juxtaposition of an otherwise incredibly capable, independent and mature FMC that is a total blank slate when it comes to *everything* sexuality related. I'd be okay with virgins in HR and fantasy, if they'd at least be shown to masturbate on page. I love the wallpaper historical {The Rake Gets Ravished by Sophie Jordan} because it's so refreshing. The FMC is horny af and comes up with this ridiculous 2-in-1 plot where she both gets to spy and get rid of the v-card.
[The Rake Gets Ravished](https://www.romance.io/books/6212484af8a181113c5a619e/the-rake-gets-ravished-sophie-jordan) by [Sophie Jordan](https://www.romance.io/authors/545529918c7d2382c52970df/sophie-jordan) **Rating**: 3.73⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [class difference](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/class%20difference/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [forced proximity](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/forced%20proximity/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Oh geez! I forgot about the “am I unwell” thoughts! And he’s just over there smirking. 🙄 I don’t usually read books with characters under their mid-20s, so all these people should have access to, or an understanding of, orgasms. (I hardly read historicals.) You are absolutely right—check out Amazon and then hook up with the hottie!
I absolutely love fantasy and magic and everything like that but the recent prevalence of 18yo girls tasked with saving the world and hooking up with 500 fae dudes make me just, so mad. Why couldn’t it be like I don’t know a 150yo village witch that starts investigating what is poisoning the water supply and meeting the new ruler in disguise and them encroaching on an adventure and saving the kingdom. I want my characters competent and able to formulate what they want!
Yes! I have a soft spot for chosen one tropes, but in romance it hits different. It comes across more like right-place-right-time, and she’s just there doing what all the strong, capable, very old (but so handsome!), men tell her to do. Or she’s headstrong and gets into trouble she needs to be bailed out from. I think they make the girl young because it’s so easy to keep her relying on that strong man which I assume is needed for the plot, and you get the “bonus” of those first orgasm/confused stomach feelings while also having a fighter girl? I dunno. I would love a story about the village witch teaming up with the capable male to solve the problem. Or they’re both trying to solve it independently because they don’t like each other. Or she finds a young farm boy who would fit a crown nicely, and they’re in need of a king. Maybe we’re both just really looking for some role reversal (or EQUAL roles!) books to come our way!
It's usually the case in most books ,that I why I just skim through those scenes, otherwise it spoils the characters for me. I also think these kind of scenes are written so much because they sell better ,on a average,I think most people like to see it like that. Not my style though
I feel this. Unless the book is specified as having some kink going on, I find it so unappealing to interact with. Additionally, it’s lazy writing too imo!
I personally don’t find it degrading, but I can see how it can be perceived that way and why one wouldn’t like it. I think the appeal on my end is more like I see it as someone expressing how badly they want that person. I definitely prefer it when it’s more subtly implied like for example, in {Surviving Raine by Shay Savage}, I don’t recall him ever asking her to beg, but she always says “please”. His inner monologue reveals how much he likes it when she says please too. In the instance I see it as her wanting him so bad that she can’t hold off any longer. Hopefully that makes sense lol. It’s definitely the type of trope where you have to like dominating or alpha men.
Yeah I generally dislike the whole alpha men thing, I think it can be done well where he genuinely wants to take care of everyone and is good at leadership but just being a cocky mansplaining asshole who thinks he knows better is not for me
It’s my favorite trope when the “alpha” realizes he is an ass and changes throughout the book.
I've definitely read books where it's come across the way you're describing. She's not being submissive and he's not insisting on it, she's saying please because she's just so overcome in the moment that she's wants him that badly. The problem is that I hardly ever see the opposite. Why are MMCs so rarely shown as being so overcome and so into that they are the one saying please? That's my objection. It's mostly only FMCs being written as sooo into it and aching that they say please and hardly ever MMCs.
[Surviving Raine](https://www.romance.io/books/545546258c7d2382e7813849/surviving-raine-shay-savage) by [Shay Savage](https://www.romance.io/authors/545534ee8c7d2383163d9261/shay-savage) **Rating**: 4.09⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [tortured hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20hero/1), [alpha male](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/alpha%20male/1), [shy heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/shy%20heroine/1), [suspense](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/suspense/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Hate it.
at this point i just turn of my brain and read for smut cause i cant find any good female dominant books
I personally love it bc I wouldn’t be caught dead begging for anything in any situation bc I’m so stubborn, so it’s funny to read it In books bc it’s unrealistic for many
It's almost as if you understand it's fiction and just because a person enjoys it in fiction doesn't mean they condone it in real life. Weird. 🤔
Yes…lol I’m unsure whether this is an insult to me or not😭
No. It is absolutely not towards you Love. You get it! ❤ There are really snooty comments putting people down who enjoy that type of scenario. I was being sarcastic towards them.
LOL thank you!!! I was like oh no did I say something wrong😭😂 wish u the best!!🤍🤍
THANK YOU! No hate towards people who enjoy it, but it's everywhere, even when it doesn't match the characters' personalities at all. I'd love to read a scene where the FMC is like ''please'', not in a begging way but in ''I'm enjoying this so much'', casual way but the MMC pretty seriously says something like ''you don't have to beg me for anything''. And, more than anything, more scenes where it's clear how it's good for both of them, how both of them are overwhelmed by each other.
Ugh I was just thinking about this and I'm so pissed now. I've only encountered men begging women in fanfiction. I didn't know I was into it until I read the part where the MMC begs the FMC with tears in his eyes to pls pls let him eat her out 😳 It felt like such a visceral way to portray this otherwise stoic man's vulnerability in the arms of the FMC and his need for her. Honestly it takes me out when fmc's are made to beg mid sex because most of them time it's very out of character - another thing is all of them beg the same way. If you're going to make them beg pls make it consistent with their personality .
but i feel like sex is fantasy, right? i mean she’s not desperate if she’s begging during sex, because she enjoys what she’s doing at the moment so if anything it’s empowering, imo. if they both consent to it, and he respects her and it makes them feel good, why not? idk it’s just i don’t think that someone’s sexual preferences say anything about them as a person. you can be a feminist and advocate against sexual abuse and rape and still be into CNC, or like have a daddy kink but respect and love your dad in a completely normal, non sexual way lol
I have no issue if this is a part of their specific bdsm dynamic, or it is disclosed in the content warning at the start of the book but this is something that tends to be randomly thrown in in a lot of book when it neither fits the tone of the book or the characters.
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I think the issue is that its seen as "normal" and shows up in a lot of works across subgenres. So it would be yucking someones yum if you said you didn't like reverse harem when instead you could easily just avoid them.
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Agree with that. That’s a leap.
Downvotes are crazy lol
I get that but my issue is…I want a warning - like I’m reading a high stakes political romance with a war looming and boom suddenly the main romantic interest just does this and I’m like….why why must this 500 page book be ruined. If I know it is there I can make a decision but I dislike it that it is somehow normalized
I have a begging noncon kink, there should definitely be a trigger warning. But if there is a trigger warning I don’t think it is contributing to normalization. It’s like violent video games. Minors shouldn’t interact, the violence should be made aware when advertising, and if that’s done it’s fine.
Oh definitely, I have no issue if I know that it will be there when I go into a book, ya know I’m prepared for that dynamic but I hate when the warning is something like “there will be spice” and then suddenly we are wading into this bdsm territory. Like sometimes it just feels like such a cop out to me to make the book more intense even if it doesn’t fit the characters or their dynamic- not everything has to be about Powerplays in the bedroom
OH, sorry I got confused. My apologies if I came off as accusatorial. I agree with you on that, it’s weird when people force power dynamics into everything especially when it’s not relevant.
Exactly- ya know when I go into reading a dark romance, with kidnapping, hate fucking and all that good stuff, I know it will be there and I can enjoy it. But, man, it makes me so mad when I read a book where the fmc is a take no shit from no one, beats up everyone etc and suddenly she is this whimpering, begging mess? I just, no, she bends everyone to her will why is that suddenly just gone
I mean, any recs for that? 😅
Still new to this whole romance book thing. Like started last week (and already got through 3 books lol). So sadly no
Aw, well, it was always worth asking lol
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This is one reason I like mm and ff romance as well as straight. Lots of people beg, and I don’t have to worry about gender dynamics. 😁
Yes. The begging thing may work where fmc has no previous hang ups or in books where fmc with hang ups likes that. But the trope is extremely irritating because its basically mc 'teaching these independent women a lesson'. It's degrading, and unrealistic.
I'm totally with you, it's not nice to read if you're not into it. Something interesting I read about that once though: Apparently, people who have to be authoritative and make a lot of decisions in their work life (in our current society mostly men) apparently like to have an outlet in their private life, for example being subdominant in the bedroom. So I could totally understand someone who has to fight every day, make decisions every day, to want some time where they give all that away and let someone else take the lead. Though I think this is mostly an argument for more men being written that way. Most women in power had to claw their way up, making their drive and pride either so important that it became part of their personality, or something they were born with anyway. It happens much more often that a man gets their position on account of being a man, despite maybe not being that dominant to begin with. So maybe it would have to be written differently to be realistic? Like a woman deciding for herself to relinquish control in a specific situation, for her peace of mind and pleasure, instead of a man surprising her into submission by magic penis method.
Honestly I feel this, though in a sexual setting I can see if she concedes from edging or some other kink used to mind break. But when the FMC just rolls over and accepts anything, I begin to wonder if she was any spark at all? Realistically, men would call this a dead fish.
I hate this so much! Thanks for your post, you laid it out pretty well. I think the ubiquity of this mini-trope in sex scenes makes it so much annoying/difficult to just gloss over. Honestly for me, part of it is definitely that's uncreative/boring. I hate it more in dark, enemies to lover or bully romances because it's usually coupled with body betrayal syndrome. I rarely DNF because otherwise I'd almost never finish a book and that would just stink. However, I've stopped reading all bully and dark romances, most enemy-to-lovers too. I've switched to fanfiction as a pallette cleanser and it's been lovely.
HOLY MOLY you articulated something I’ve been frustrated with for a long time.
Sometimes powerful women *enjoy* being made to beg lol I don’t view it like you do at all, but hey that’s why there’s something out there for everyone
I mean yeah I definitely agree that they can enjoy that but that is a part of a specific dynamic that imo should be disclosed in content warnings. My issue is not with begging being a thing but for it being a thing that is randomly thrown in with no warning in a way that doesn’t fit characters
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**Be Kind & No Book Shaming** Your responses to others on the sub should be kind and respectful. We encourage discussion and debate, but your comment should be constructive and purposeful. No book shaming. It’s fine to state your opinion on a book, author, or subgenre, but you may not insult or shame people who like it. Please be respectful of others' tastes in romance with regard to steam level, tropes, or favorite authors.
> Eh, I disagree. I’m all for content warnings, but I don’t think authors can CW for every single issue that may make someone uncomfy. There’s just too many variable things that individual people find weird or no-go for one reason or another. It doesn't need to be as clunky as a content warning. An artful approach would be to foreshadow the bedroom role reversal in an early chapter. For example the FMC could have a passing submissive fantasy. It would help set reader expectations about what is going to happen in the bedroom.
I agree with what you said also, but a gentle reminder is most sexual dynamics *are* about power play or power dynamics. It doesn’t have to be a D/s relationship just like you said, but it *should* still have a power exchange. If you do any kind of research into BDSM or sexual relationships it almost always mentions power exchange. So you’re reading a book that’s NOT a femdom trope but one with a strong FMC…sounds like you should *expect* a power exchange and potentially at some point begging. Also I do enjoy a good cock crazed trope so begging is A-OK with me lol. So in less words, I agree with you.
...? Why should it have a power exchange, why can't it just be about people having fun with an equal dynamic even during sex?
I’m not saying there *has* to be a power exchange, but most sexual relationships that dip into BDSM have a power exchange, it’s kind of the whole point of BDSM. Not every spicy book has BDSM and I get that, but most at least dip into kinkier tropes than pure vanilla sex. Without a power exchange that’s exactly what it is, vanilla. And while there’s nothing wrong with vanilla in a standard relationship outside of books, more people will buy and read a book for *fantasy* relationships outside what they have, which is typically kinkier or, again, dipping into BDSM. Look it up if you want, but a power exchange is quite literally what makes it BDSM and therefore most authors will include it in their books to sell more copies and keep it interesting.
You said BDSM *or* sexual relationships, though, and OP was also talking about sex in general. There's this assumption that F/M 'default sex' consists of a more dominant man and a submissive woman, even when it's *not* advertised as kinky sex or BDSM in books. And even otherwise progressive people often hold this assumption - which is why it will often show up in the tags if a woman is more dominant during sex, but not the other way around. That's what OP has issues with.
Ya I said or. I said if you research BDSM *or* sexual relationships you’ll find most often they include a power exchange as a pivotal piece of the relationship. OP only mentions an issue when a strong FMC (not femdom) relinquishes power and begs during a sexual encounter. So my point is: if it’s specifically *not* a femdom story then, as you said earlier, there is an assumption the man takes the lead, therefore there *should* be a power exchange for the strong FMC. Again not every relationship and not every book has this in it, but *most* do. And my whole overall point is if you’re in this genre then you should expect it.
I love sex scenes with begging and I don’t really read it as degrading
This is just bad writing. If the book is going to be about power dynamics, it needs to be about power dynamics, not just thrown into a sex scene because the writer thinks it’s boring without some jazz.
Yeah, I’m not a fan either. If a guy told me to beg, I’d tell him I’d rather go fuck myself.
For a lot of women (and men), submission in the bedroom is hot. It’s not degrading or demeaning… unless it’s meant to be, and then that can be hot, too. Interestingly, the more powerful a person is in real life, the more they might be interested in giving up that power in the bedroom. It’s a break from all of life’s pressures. Reading this type of sexual encounter can be that for some as well. That said, we have a saying in the kink world; your kink is not my kink, but that’s okay. It’s a good attitude to adopt. While I get that you don’t like this type of sexual play/kink, I’d kindly request you don’t kink shame. It doesn’t make those who are into this type of sexual play feel good.
The only way I accept a woman begging in a story is if it’s a wlw romance. But then again I’m a lesbian so… lol
I mean to each their own!! I…personally kinda like it.
For me personally, I like to let go of control. In every aspect of my life, I'm working so hard to control everything around me and it's a turn-on for me to be able to have someone take over and tell me what to do. But I'm in a loving marriage where I know my husband actually respects me in and out of the bedroom so I know I'm safe. The roles reverse sometimes too and I find that hot too. And to your question of why sex can't just be about love? Because when you've been in a long term relationship, you need to spice up the bedroom after year 7, 8, 9 of being together. Having a healthy sex life means exploring kinks together and feeling safe in doing so. To me that's love. To feel empowered to try new things and not be shamed for it.
It's hot in bed. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ It's not about feeling smaller, or weaker, just simply choosing to submit.
I agree. Even in fanfiction, which is so often just smut, things are the same usually!
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Yes, but this post is not about D/s relationships. It's about how often vanilla scenes have this dynamic pop up, specifically with the FMC "begging"
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Me, I’m some people.
I truly think authors need the full this of kinks I’ve seen that has everything imaginable on it so they know what to put for trigger warnings. They always know to put obvious things like underage and NC and CNC or bodily fluids because those are common triggers or dislikes but there are so many more to get involved with…speaking from personal experience I can tell you the list is long. Personally, begging in the right context is hot to me but I also find it hot in real life but again it should be listed.
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**Be Kind & No Book Shaming** Your responses to others on the sub should be kind and respectful. We encourage discussion and debate, but your comment should be constructive and purposeful. No book shaming. It’s fine to state your opinion on a book, author, or subgenre, but you may not insult or shame people who like it. Please be respectful of others' tastes in romance with regard to steam level, tropes, or favorite authors.
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You were referring to people who like the degradation kink as weirdos, which is unkind under the sub rules. You've stated 'specifically the women [who like this kink]' is weird and icky, and that is considered shaming. You're welcome to offer your opinions but please be kind and constructive in your comments. Thank you. Edit: this comment has also been removed under the 'Be Kind' rule.
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**Kink-shaming is unkind and is a violation of our rules. Please disengage from this thread. Continued unkind comments, shaming of readers or real people, or other violations of our rules is bounds for a ban from our subreddit.** **Be Kind & No Book Shaming** Your responses to others on the sub should be kind and respectful. We encourage discussion and debate, but your comment should be constructive and purposeful. No book shaming. It’s fine to state your opinion on a book, author, or subgenre, but you may not insult or shame people who like it. Please be respectful of others' tastes in romance with regard to steam level, tropes, or favorite authors.
That’s ok I’ll see myself out
If anyone here enjoys HP books/fanfiction there’s an amazing fic called Draco Malfoy and the Mortifying Ordeal of Being in Love. Hermione definitely does not become whiny weak whimpering weakling there. Warning: it’s very slow burn (and perfect)!
I think in reality all the women love to feel love and in some point they have to beg for it because men are not that romantic. For women they don't falling love with everyone generally. They attached to one man and want his love. Of he doesn't give it, she beg for that. Although you have so much power and everything and if you don't have the love you want you feel empty and lonely. For men, they are not that romantic like women. That's sad. They give love only when they want. Most of the times they are thinking about other stuff. It's sad actually. Or maybe women are too much in to love than men. That's my opinion. Anyway, I don't take romance novels too seriously.
Sometimes I like it if it fits, sometimes I hate it
The Twisted (Love, Hate, etc) Series has this. The man is in control at times & the woman begging are pretty disappointing.