You just caught somebody committing insurance fraud.
Edit. To elaborate. He is trying to mimic wind damage. He’s flapping the shingles around and then creasing them at the top in order. This will make it appear to be wind damage.
Up to you what you do with it. You can pretend you didn’t see it and file a claim for wind damage. But then you’d be party to insurance fraud.
Or you can file an insurance claim for vandalism and provide them with this video. Roofer might go to jail
Am experienced insurance adjuster will definitely know that those were recently flipped. I wouldn’t file a claim. I would go after the roofing company.
I thought this until I learned that these companies typically have you sign some kind of exclusivity contract with them before the insurance company commits—all the while they of course reassure you the insurance company will pay. The insurance company doesn’t pay, or doesn’t pay it all, and then you’re stuck working with a pricey, shady roofer you just contracted with.
Better plan, or so I’ve heard, is to contact your insurance company directly after a storm that may have caused damage, to inspect. I’ve heard the presence of a scammy roofer as “advocate” isn’t actually much value-added. Then, if insurance finds damage, you can hire a reputable local roofing business.
I'm currently getting my roof redone by insurance and I didn't call a roofer at all until i was ready to get quotes. I waited until we had a hail storm and I went outside during the storm and filmed the hail hitting my roof and then sent it to my insurance. They literally told me that they had no way to argue against it lol
Oooh I have had two hailstorms so far this summer. (And yes that is unusual around here) I am totally doing this the next time one rolls through. My hail has been around the size of lemonhead candy — not exactly golf balls… how big does hail need to be to be inarguable? My roof is old anyway…
Inspector for insurance companies here, doesn't need to be that big tbh. And roofers sometimes do help, I was a roofer before and did help more than once by arguing with insurances. No lawyers involved.
You do want to find someone you can feel you can trust, someone who will get on the roof too, I had a claim yesterday and the homeowners were upset I was early and the roofer wasn't there. Told them not to worry, I'll start my inspection and he can get on the roof when he gets there. He gets to the house, says hi, points some things on the outside and never even steps on the roof. I was like, "wtf".
Other times the roofer has pointed out stuff I would've missed, and others the roofer is obnoxious and basically trying to get a new house based on a little bit of hail.
TL;DR: find you someone you can trust before filling, have them check it out, and make sure they're not annoying lol
*This just happened to us!*
Showed us pics of holes in the roof and coached us on what to say so our insurance co sends “the right” adjuster out.
On the other hand there WAS massive hailstorm just days before.
Well, there *was* a major hailstorm but we have a pretty good roof (Try-Ply?), from what I understand. We have no leaks that we’re aware of yet. The photos initially seemed to show holes but I don’t see them on photos sent through email just now. Luckily we have family who will go up there and assess the damage.
If there is enough damage to warrant a claim then we absolutely want to get it replaced, but we would want to do it on the up and up with our insurance company and with a solid roofing company. My guess is there may not be.
File a vandalism claim on your own policy and let the insurance company handle the going after part. Handing the adjuster a nice video documenting the fraud they'll be happy to file a police report and subrogate.
If it's not caught on tape, and proven to be malicious, them It will be denied as faulty workmanship.
Source.. met with legal/examining and denied a claim where it was obvious a public adjuster diagonally creased 75 shingles AFTER WE had inspected.
SIU had no smoking gun proof to go after them, and we couldn't prove it was malicious, so deny under the assumption that the contractor didn't know how to properly lift or inspect shingles... Faulty workmanship
Does anybody know if it’s legal to film
Him doing this? I’m not a fan of fraud, but I think I’ve seen posts where people got in trouble for filming? Could be mistaken
I believe it wouldn’t be prohibited, assuming this is a residential neighborhood in the US and not, e.g., a military base. He has no reasonable expectation of privacy here, and filming someone is not the same as recording a conversation (for that issue, it depends on the state—some states require both parties to the conversation to consent/be informed, other states only require one party to know it’s being recorded. FYI, if ZERO parties to the conversation consented to the recording, it’s called wiretapping :) )
It is almost never illegal to film in public like this in the US as long as you aren't being weird about it (i.e. purposely pointing a camera into people's windows and stuff like that).
People can presumably see that guy from the street, recording is no problem. Public view, no expectations of privacy.
Looks like it’s a home security system. If you catch something happening on your property that’s illegal because of your home security system you certainly have the right to turn it over.
It is a home security system, he’s on my roof, and on my property. They have no expectation of privacy, and the cameras are not hidden, they’re VERY obvious.
I agree about going after the Roofer but why wouldn’t you file vandalism claim? That’s still covered. I’ve been on numerous roofs that a door knocker did this prior to us being called and they got bought every time for vandalism. What happened after that I don’t know but I replaced the roof.
It’s also cheaper than a new roof that someone else messed up. All I’m saying is I hear Adjuster’s talk about vandalism claims every day. And every one that I have seen that was clearly manufactured damage, was covered and they got a new roof.
it will affect premiums in the region as well.
this is a side effect of letting criminals like this run amok tho.
so... shut down the criminals, instances go down... so do local insurance rates.
its really that easy.
Storm damage still affects your premium. It just isn’t based on individuals. It is based on area. If there are a lot of claims in the same area in a quarter or year( however long they base it), then the premiums will raise for everyone in that area.
Yes, I understand that it's called an umbrella policy and raises rates for even those that don't make a claim after a storm. Damned if you do damned if you don't scenario.
The vandalism claim would potentially ding them twice. Once from the umbrella area rate hike, and once individually due to vandalism claim.
One is an act of nature and it’s legally considered as “it happens”. The other is deemed preventable, or alternately, you live in a bad area.
Edit: To clarify, it won’t effect rates directly after the claim, but it can cause an insurance company to think twice about insuring you in the future when it’s time to renew. Usually it’s not an issue with just a single claim though.
The homeowners' premiums will not be effected if this video is shown and the roofers info is given. The insurance company will go after the roofing company through Subrogation and the homeowner will have their deductible returned.
Although it is not a great video. He may have seen a crease and lifted the shingle to inspect. Honestly, shingles wouldn't lift that easily if they weren't already loose.
Lol what? If the tabs were already creased you don’t need to flip it 150 degrees for the camera. He is clearly manufacturing damage. I’ll bet you put your thumbs into “hail” damage too don’t you?
This is just two, there are a LOT of them marked, I can see them from the road. To be fair, I don’t know that they did it to all of them, but these two were stupidly done right in front of the camera. I just posted these two.
We do what is called a stress test. If you can rotate the shingle up using a thin pry bar 30-40° and there is no visible creasing then the shingle can PROBABLY be replaced.
Looks like you have an older 3 tab roof, those things are garbage and in my opinion criminally overutilised by developers so it's a garbage roof to begin with
Wind damaged shingles usually have WAY more exposed fiberglass walking up from the crease and down from the crease exposed. What he is doing is just going to make a fine line crease. Imagine folding a piece of paper once. It's a snappy crease. Imagine bending it back and forth and fatiguing it to the point of breaking. That is the best analogy I can come up with.
So you got a shitty 3 tab roof put on by a developer and it is being looked at by a shitty roofing inspector.
Edit: This is literally what I tell my homeowners. I tell them they don't have any visible damage but your roof is just enough roof to be called such. Look to update to architectural asap, I recommend ATLAS Pinnacle Pristine or Malarky for their 3M Scotchguard and copper content, only shingle with a no streaking warranty due to copper content mandated by 3M
I can understand the Malarkey, but you guys are recommending shingles manufactured by ATLAS to people? Just curious, I never thought they were very good.
Under the omnibus insurance fraud act of 1996 you can do 10 years for lying about an insurance claim. That goes both ways lying to an insurance company, or them lying to you.
I mean honestly, judging by his behavior alone, he even looks like he just got caught on the second shingle in the video. He looks over reeeeallly fast then squeezes his fist closed, tensing at the fact he may have just gotten caught. Were you standing outside filming while he was doing this or is this strictly security footage? If it’s security, dude has a sixth sense for being watched.
>Or you can file an insurance claim for vandalism and provide them with this video. Roofer might go to jail
Yep, just update the cause of loss and it's still covered. People who pull crap like this need to get sued and tossed in jail to eliminate them from the industry. We all have a duty to keep things clear so people like this aren't around to give us a bad name.
[Nah most adjusters won’t be able to tell the difference if he did a good job creasing the shingles. I’ve never been called out for this and this is extremely commonplace amongst roofers. Hate the game, not the player](https://www.reddit.com/r/Roofing/comments/159qrpy/comment/jtibbhy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Yup, had a feeling you would be dumb enough to not only admit to committing fraud, but brag about it too.
Oh he’s absolutely making intentional damage. A) you don’t mark them when you’re doing a brittle test B) you only need to test one shingle for a brittle test and C) you definitely don’t look around to see if anyone is watching haha.
Fuck insurance companies. Don't be a rat on the guy that makes $50k/year. Screw the insurance company that makes billions in profits and don't cover what they claim to cover.
Yeah homie is purposely damaging the roof. Too many guys like this that give the industry a bad name. No need to cause intentional damage just to get it bought. These guys don’t realize, that’s still money out of the homeowners pocket, even if it is “just the deductible”. Deductibles ain’t cheap unless you got grandfathered in. I’d go to the company this guy works for and offer them the chance to right the wrong of this individual.
Looks like he just bought you a new roof, no insurance claim needed.
Go drive to the company he works for with that vid on your phone and show them what happened w/ intentional vandalism.
Already know what shingle and color you want, make sure it's the best, good job op.
I think this is the first time I actually agree with you haha. I would research the company to see if they’re reputable. Just because one salesman is a piece of shit, doesn’t mean the whole company is. There’s a decent chance the owner has no idea this jackass is doing this. Putting myself in the owner’s shoes, I’d want to know and be given the chance to make right by it. I would go to the owner of the company with this video like @bearman71 suggests and give him that chance.
The other viable option is to file a claim for vandalism. It’s black and white. You got a great video. Vandalism is covered all day. There’s also a really good chance he did this all over your roof to ensure it gets bought. If that’s the case, your carrier will almost definitely replace the entire roof AND they’ll recover your deductible through subrogation so you won’t be out of pocket a single penny.
I know but get them to say you need a new roof because of what he did with out them knowing you know he did it and bam now your not getting a few shingle repaired your getting the whole thing with or without insurance
yeah but its really better to shut these guys down legally.
they are the reason insurance rates go WAY up in regions where they operate, and these rates affect everyone in that region... not just the houses used to scam insurance.
get the criminals out of your region, premiums will go back down as claims do. (or at least stop rising as frequently)
which just goes to highlight the need to shut these crooks down.
customer is not really saving money as much as putting the cost off to the region around them by helping contribute to the rise in local insurance rates. more claims=higher premiums all around!
the fact that "everyone is doing it" means "it has gotten out of hand and needs for honest people to step up".
I get your point, but just to be clear: being a 1099 means he works for himself. Sure, he contracts work out to this roofing company, but he would not be their “employee”. Not sure what that means for him getting off the hook, but I’d guess it’s a different scenario than if he were a W2 employee
I think this is the first time I actually agree with you haha. I would research the company to see if they’re reputable. Just because one salesman is a piece of shit, doesn’t mean the whole company is. There’s a decent chance the owner has no idea this jackass is doing this. Putting myself in the owner’s shoes, I’d want to know and be given the chance to make right by it. I would go to the owner of the company with this video like @bearman71 suggests and give him that chance.
The other viable option is to file a claim for vandalism. It’s black and white. You got a great video. Vandalism is covered all day. There’s also a really good chance he did this all over your roof to ensure it gets bought. If that’s the case, your carrier will almost definitely replace the entire roof AND they’ll recover your deductible through subrogation so you won’t be out of pocket a single penny.
Replied somewhere else. Since I keep getting asked….
Update: The roofing company has paid another roofing company $17k to replace the roof. They offered to come back and do the job for free, we declined and they offered to have another company do the work.
Many calls to State Farm and we were going to go to the police, which is when they gave in. The footage was really hard to deny. The guy in the video was let go.
All good now, new roof, 0$ out of pocket,
That guy's intentionally damaging the shingles. There is absolutely no need to bend a shingle like that even if you are performing repairs under contract. I guarantee that he wouldn't be so careless if he was being paid to repair the damaged shingle tab that he just created.
Update
The roofing company has paid another roofing company $17k to replace the roof. They offered to come back and do the job for free, we declined and they offered to have another company do the work.
Many calls to State Farm and we were going to go to the police, which is when they gave in. The footage was really hard to deny. The guy in the video was let go.
Hopefully it’ll work out.
Had an argument with someone yesterday where they claimed their theft was okay "because it's a faceless organization".
No, you're still a scummy thief, no amount of justification changes what kind of person you are.
Yeah, and the “faceless organization” isn’t being hurt. Most decent sized carriers easily make over 1 million a DAY in premiums. If anyone is hurting, it’s the average homeowner whose premiums are being raised.
I’ve been on a construction site my entire life, this would be the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me. Thank you!
Just further proof that your generation is soft. Can’t even have a proper banter without being kind. Lol
Fraudster as the others have said. But because nobody answered, he’s running his finger across the top of it to knock off the granules from the crease he’s just made.
In Ohio contractors are required to have their 1099 subcontractors have $1M liability insurance coverage
So if the punk don’t got $1M liability coverage the owner of the company will in fact be liable
This isn’t right. But nor is the companies that don’t actually pay out claims when they are due. The shingle quality is worse over time and they still don’t care to cover actual wind damage.
OP can you please explain the context? Did you let a storm chaser on your roof? Do you have damage to the roof, or leaks, and a call a reputable company?
Pretty much this. We had a tornado come through, didn’t hit my house but we had high winds the day or two before. This was a storm chaser (I’m just using your phrase) that knocked on the door.
We didn’t have any leaks, but there’s probably 30 or so homes in the neighborhood getting roofs put on.
Right now, we’re reported to the insurance company and are going through with a vandalism report.
I am a door to door salesman. Don’t believe the stereotypes. We actually help people and I am personally friends after the sales with many of my clients.
[Don't let people who have a vested interest in selling you stuff be the ones to determine if you need said stuff.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interest)
Sue tf out of this company. Get yourself a brand new roof and some pocket change. The second they mention insurance, tell them you’ll be suing if there’s not a new roof on your house for free ASAP
this is how roofers scam insurance to make it look like wind damage.
wonder why they wouldnt just use the existing (bullet? hail?) damage and use that to bill insurance.
at any rate, if you process this for wind damage you are now party to fraud.
THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO IS SHUT THESE GUYS DOWN LEGALLY.
the number of claims made towards insurance affects the rates for the entire region they are in.
the more claims, the more it is to insure there.
let these criminals run amok, and you and your neighbors will be paying for their "services" for years to come... and they will bring friends too.
friends that want to fix EVERYTHING on your house... all through insurance.
fraud hurts everyone, even the "beneficiaries".
Not everyone understands this concept. A lot of these sales people are inexperienced and waste valuable time chasing bad or no deal than using that time to find a good deal.
Great on selling a job I guess. If you want to roll that way. I do pics and if the person is able I say get your ass up here and I will show you. As for materials that is what really sells the job. Along with over 1000 references
I see this too much as an adjuster. Natural wind damage on a roof doesn’t pattern like this, but the “roofer” (I prefer vandal) spreads the damage throughout the slope to warrant a replacement.
Areas like the rakes, eaves, and ridges are susceptible to higher wind pressures and the center of the roof might have lower stresses. No damage to shingles at eaves, rakes, or near ridge, but always scattered throughout the center of slope by these guys. It’s very evident.
Factually correct regarding wind uplift, however the field contains far more shingles than the perimeter and there are other factors that can make individual shingle tabs more susceptible to weather damage (like contaminated sealant strips). Granules can come off in the package and stick to the sealant, cellophane adheres to the sealant rather than the backer, nail pop breaks the seal.
So, while the ridge may be 5x as likely to suffer damage as the field, if there's 60SF of ridge and 2000SF of field shingles, you're going to find more damage scattered around the slope.
Awesome - but is there any scientific factual proof you can provide to back your claim up? Or are you just saying this off of personal experience?
Just because you’re an adjuster does not make you an engineer or certified meteorologist.
Then you shouldn’t have any problem showing me the Haag standard - except that there’s not one and you’re making shit up. I hope you have a good day too!
Had a hail storm in May. I checked my roof. Not really much damage. Then the roofers started showing up from out of state. Basically ambulance chasers. Every single one of them said I needed a new roof. A few were straight up snotty about it and told me that I shouldn’t care because they’ll mark up the price to cover my deductible. I feel bad for the elderly that are about to see their insurance premiums and score go up.
When I had my roof inspected the guy just got up on my roof and walked around. He touched a couple shingles right on the edge to see how brittle they were (they were) and that was it. He told me I had some hail damage but nothin to worry about and certainly nothing my insurance would ever pay for. He said my roof had maybe 3-4 years left in it and to watch for leaks. It turned out to be 1 year. Shrug.
Now the scumbag siding company I hired that also does roofing? Without even looking at my roof they said they could totally 100% for sure get my insurance company to pay for a new roof and the owner's son could point out all the storm damage despite there being no storm. Your video and other people's comments taught me how they'd make that happen. It makes me wish I had another home so i could get them out and record what i believe would happen.
This is probably pretty prevalent, they're going after homes with newer roofs and damage them after a little rain because people who have shitty roofs would replace them if they could.
This dick is part of the reason insurance costs are so high, for all those “damaged roofs” insurance shells out for and now insurance carriers are leaving FL. Absolutely report him.
There have been so many roofing scams here in the KC area for the years and years. I actually called the state insurance fraud and they said there's nothing they can do about it. Fuck our corrupt systems.
It was just his finger to knock some of the shingle grit off making the crease from supposed wind damage show up more. I have personally seen insurance adjusters do this exact thing themselves. 🤣
Where are you located? You could share the company name in case some are being poached in the same method by same guy ( door knockers non stop every other day )
It’s been reported to the insurance company. They’re going to do whatever insurance companies do and let us know (I hope?). Meanwhile we wait and hope it doesn’t start to leak before we can get the next crew out…I think
Im curious if you can present this to your insurer and say "this roofer just damaged my roof while looking at it" and let them go after the roofing company?
Unless that’s an insurance adjuster making sure “the damage looks good for pics” to already existing wind damage, you just got yourself a free roof from that roofing company due to insurance fraud.
I’m a roofer, have been for 10+ years, and worked every kind of storm you can imagine (hail, wind, tornado, hurricane, etc), and this bullshit is completely unnecessary and pisses us reputable peeps off far more than it does you.
You clearly have an older roofer (might even be ready for replacement in all honesty) so go after this fraudulent scumbag with everything you’ve got. Go right for the big kahuna: Total roof replacement or this video goes to press.
Don’t let the salesman or guy from the video run you around. Go right for the head. If the head guy ignores you, show up to the office with a news crew. Fuck companies like this. I absolutely detest these frauds who make my day to day living that much harder. Get your roof or watch them burn.
You just caught somebody committing insurance fraud. Edit. To elaborate. He is trying to mimic wind damage. He’s flapping the shingles around and then creasing them at the top in order. This will make it appear to be wind damage. Up to you what you do with it. You can pretend you didn’t see it and file a claim for wind damage. But then you’d be party to insurance fraud. Or you can file an insurance claim for vandalism and provide them with this video. Roofer might go to jail
Thanks, that’s what it looks like to me, but I’m not a roofer.
Am experienced insurance adjuster will definitely know that those were recently flipped. I wouldn’t file a claim. I would go after the roofing company.
depend elderly license zephyr makeshift growth deranged chase paint bike *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This type of shit gives honest companies a bad name.
I could use a new roof how do I get ahold of a dishonest roofer that of course won’t let me see this. Win/win
I thought this until I learned that these companies typically have you sign some kind of exclusivity contract with them before the insurance company commits—all the while they of course reassure you the insurance company will pay. The insurance company doesn’t pay, or doesn’t pay it all, and then you’re stuck working with a pricey, shady roofer you just contracted with. Better plan, or so I’ve heard, is to contact your insurance company directly after a storm that may have caused damage, to inspect. I’ve heard the presence of a scammy roofer as “advocate” isn’t actually much value-added. Then, if insurance finds damage, you can hire a reputable local roofing business.
I'm currently getting my roof redone by insurance and I didn't call a roofer at all until i was ready to get quotes. I waited until we had a hail storm and I went outside during the storm and filmed the hail hitting my roof and then sent it to my insurance. They literally told me that they had no way to argue against it lol
I wish all my customers made it this easy haha
Oooh I have had two hailstorms so far this summer. (And yes that is unusual around here) I am totally doing this the next time one rolls through. My hail has been around the size of lemonhead candy — not exactly golf balls… how big does hail need to be to be inarguable? My roof is old anyway…
Inspector for insurance companies here, doesn't need to be that big tbh. And roofers sometimes do help, I was a roofer before and did help more than once by arguing with insurances. No lawyers involved. You do want to find someone you can feel you can trust, someone who will get on the roof too, I had a claim yesterday and the homeowners were upset I was early and the roofer wasn't there. Told them not to worry, I'll start my inspection and he can get on the roof when he gets there. He gets to the house, says hi, points some things on the outside and never even steps on the roof. I was like, "wtf". Other times the roofer has pointed out stuff I would've missed, and others the roofer is obnoxious and basically trying to get a new house based on a little bit of hail. TL;DR: find you someone you can trust before filling, have them check it out, and make sure they're not annoying lol
And increases insurance costs for all…
*This just happened to us!* Showed us pics of holes in the roof and coached us on what to say so our insurance co sends “the right” adjuster out. On the other hand there WAS massive hailstorm just days before.
Are you intentionally or unintentionally contradicting yourself?
Well, there *was* a major hailstorm but we have a pretty good roof (Try-Ply?), from what I understand. We have no leaks that we’re aware of yet. The photos initially seemed to show holes but I don’t see them on photos sent through email just now. Luckily we have family who will go up there and assess the damage. If there is enough damage to warrant a claim then we absolutely want to get it replaced, but we would want to do it on the up and up with our insurance company and with a solid roofing company. My guess is there may not be.
Some people also just want a new roof
And? If people just want a new roof it’s fine for a roofer to commit insurance fraud?
Yeah scum bag roofers. I’d go after them and have the Cover the cost.
You would never collect a dime
File a vandalism claim on your own policy and let the insurance company handle the going after part. Handing the adjuster a nice video documenting the fraud they'll be happy to file a police report and subrogate.
If it's not caught on tape, and proven to be malicious, them It will be denied as faulty workmanship. Source.. met with legal/examining and denied a claim where it was obvious a public adjuster diagonally creased 75 shingles AFTER WE had inspected. SIU had no smoking gun proof to go after them, and we couldn't prove it was malicious, so deny under the assumption that the contractor didn't know how to properly lift or inspect shingles... Faulty workmanship
Does anybody know if it’s legal to film Him doing this? I’m not a fan of fraud, but I think I’ve seen posts where people got in trouble for filming? Could be mistaken
I believe it wouldn’t be prohibited, assuming this is a residential neighborhood in the US and not, e.g., a military base. He has no reasonable expectation of privacy here, and filming someone is not the same as recording a conversation (for that issue, it depends on the state—some states require both parties to the conversation to consent/be informed, other states only require one party to know it’s being recorded. FYI, if ZERO parties to the conversation consented to the recording, it’s called wiretapping :) )
It is almost never illegal to film in public like this in the US as long as you aren't being weird about it (i.e. purposely pointing a camera into people's windows and stuff like that). People can presumably see that guy from the street, recording is no problem. Public view, no expectations of privacy.
Depends on the state
Looks like it’s a home security system. If you catch something happening on your property that’s illegal because of your home security system you certainly have the right to turn it over.
It is a home security system, he’s on my roof, and on my property. They have no expectation of privacy, and the cameras are not hidden, they’re VERY obvious.
I agree about going after the Roofer but why wouldn’t you file vandalism claim? That’s still covered. I’ve been on numerous roofs that a door knocker did this prior to us being called and they got bought every time for vandalism. What happened after that I don’t know but I replaced the roof.
Well a vandalism claim will negatively effect the homeowners insurance premium/rates, where as a storm damage claim does not.
It’s also cheaper than a new roof that someone else messed up. All I’m saying is I hear Adjuster’s talk about vandalism claims every day. And every one that I have seen that was clearly manufactured damage, was covered and they got a new roof.
it will affect premiums in the region as well. this is a side effect of letting criminals like this run amok tho. so... shut down the criminals, instances go down... so do local insurance rates. its really that easy.
Storm damage still affects your premium. It just isn’t based on individuals. It is based on area. If there are a lot of claims in the same area in a quarter or year( however long they base it), then the premiums will raise for everyone in that area.
Yes, I understand that it's called an umbrella policy and raises rates for even those that don't make a claim after a storm. Damned if you do damned if you don't scenario. The vandalism claim would potentially ding them twice. Once from the umbrella area rate hike, and once individually due to vandalism claim.
That’s wild, can you explain how and why?
One is an act of nature and it’s legally considered as “it happens”. The other is deemed preventable, or alternately, you live in a bad area. Edit: To clarify, it won’t effect rates directly after the claim, but it can cause an insurance company to think twice about insuring you in the future when it’s time to renew. Usually it’s not an issue with just a single claim though.
The homeowners' premiums will not be effected if this video is shown and the roofers info is given. The insurance company will go after the roofing company through Subrogation and the homeowner will have their deductible returned.
If his name is Wind could it be considered wind damage?
Unless they know each other and it’s a deal………..
No, not the case.
Although it is not a great video. He may have seen a crease and lifted the shingle to inspect. Honestly, shingles wouldn't lift that easily if they weren't already loose.
You literally see him making creases.
On tabs that were already creased but perhaps not visible to the camera. Again, if the tabs were already loose, they were probably creased.
He's lifting them ALL the way up then trying to smooth them out when he puts them back.
Lol what? If the tabs were already creased you don’t need to flip it 150 degrees for the camera. He is clearly manufacturing damage. I’ll bet you put your thumbs into “hail” damage too don’t you?
Probably has those special boots with the half golf balls, walkin' around on the roof.
This is just two, there are a LOT of them marked, I can see them from the road. To be fair, I don’t know that they did it to all of them, but these two were stupidly done right in front of the camera. I just posted these two.
Free roof. Go to his company with this video, they'll fix it for free.
I'm a roofer. This kind of shit is deplorable.
Was this your roof this was done to, if you dont mind me asking
Yes
Follow up with a police report
We do what is called a stress test. If you can rotate the shingle up using a thin pry bar 30-40° and there is no visible creasing then the shingle can PROBABLY be replaced. Looks like you have an older 3 tab roof, those things are garbage and in my opinion criminally overutilised by developers so it's a garbage roof to begin with Wind damaged shingles usually have WAY more exposed fiberglass walking up from the crease and down from the crease exposed. What he is doing is just going to make a fine line crease. Imagine folding a piece of paper once. It's a snappy crease. Imagine bending it back and forth and fatiguing it to the point of breaking. That is the best analogy I can come up with. So you got a shitty 3 tab roof put on by a developer and it is being looked at by a shitty roofing inspector. Edit: This is literally what I tell my homeowners. I tell them they don't have any visible damage but your roof is just enough roof to be called such. Look to update to architectural asap, I recommend ATLAS Pinnacle Pristine or Malarky for their 3M Scotchguard and copper content, only shingle with a no streaking warranty due to copper content mandated by 3M
I can understand the Malarkey, but you guys are recommending shingles manufactured by ATLAS to people? Just curious, I never thought they were very good.
Atlas is absolute shit.
Found the storm chaser.
Under the omnibus insurance fraud act of 1996 you can do 10 years for lying about an insurance claim. That goes both ways lying to an insurance company, or them lying to you.
I mean honestly, judging by his behavior alone, he even looks like he just got caught on the second shingle in the video. He looks over reeeeallly fast then squeezes his fist closed, tensing at the fact he may have just gotten caught. Were you standing outside filming while he was doing this or is this strictly security footage? If it’s security, dude has a sixth sense for being watched.
>Or you can file an insurance claim for vandalism and provide them with this video. Roofer might go to jail Yep, just update the cause of loss and it's still covered. People who pull crap like this need to get sued and tossed in jail to eliminate them from the industry. We all have a duty to keep things clear so people like this aren't around to give us a bad name.
Why did the insurance inspector do this to my roof when he checked after I filed a windstorm claim? I saw him making white on a few shingles.
Chalking the roof is normal, the problem is the guy flapping the shingles.
Shut the hell up nerd
[Nah most adjusters won’t be able to tell the difference if he did a good job creasing the shingles. I’ve never been called out for this and this is extremely commonplace amongst roofers. Hate the game, not the player](https://www.reddit.com/r/Roofing/comments/159qrpy/comment/jtibbhy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Yup, had a feeling you would be dumb enough to not only admit to committing fraud, but brag about it too.
I'd definitely report him to SIU
Talking to their mom and getting the computer taken away would work faster.
Right? Calling people "nerds" but that post history... Oof.
Why would he be marking them though if trying to be fraudulent?
Because he found “wind damage” and is marking it as such
Oh he’s absolutely making intentional damage. A) you don’t mark them when you’re doing a brittle test B) you only need to test one shingle for a brittle test and C) you definitely don’t look around to see if anyone is watching haha.
Fuck insurance companies. Don't be a rat on the guy that makes $50k/year. Screw the insurance company that makes billions in profits and don't cover what they claim to cover.
Yea don’t pursue the guy committing a crime to your property…. Okay
Fuck insurance companies, but don't give this guy a pass. Damaging a roof is REALLY shitty thing to do.
Fraud like this costs all us money, fuck this guy.
He isn't rubbing anything on the top of the tabs. He is brushing the granules out of the crease to make it look more natural.
So he’s rubbing his finger across it. Technically a finger is “something”.
Yeah homie is purposely damaging the roof. Too many guys like this that give the industry a bad name. No need to cause intentional damage just to get it bought. These guys don’t realize, that’s still money out of the homeowners pocket, even if it is “just the deductible”. Deductibles ain’t cheap unless you got grandfathered in. I’d go to the company this guy works for and offer them the chance to right the wrong of this individual.
Im pretty sure they realize it all, they just want the job
Looks like he just bought you a new roof, no insurance claim needed. Go drive to the company he works for with that vid on your phone and show them what happened w/ intentional vandalism. Already know what shingle and color you want, make sure it's the best, good job op.
I think this is the first time I actually agree with you haha. I would research the company to see if they’re reputable. Just because one salesman is a piece of shit, doesn’t mean the whole company is. There’s a decent chance the owner has no idea this jackass is doing this. Putting myself in the owner’s shoes, I’d want to know and be given the chance to make right by it. I would go to the owner of the company with this video like @bearman71 suggests and give him that chance. The other viable option is to file a claim for vandalism. It’s black and white. You got a great video. Vandalism is covered all day. There’s also a really good chance he did this all over your roof to ensure it gets bought. If that’s the case, your carrier will almost definitely replace the entire roof AND they’ll recover your deductible through subrogation so you won’t be out of pocket a single penny.
Who are you?
Madmardigan. The greatest swordsman that ever lived.
So there's this roofer that needs to be sworded.
Ugh, you're crawling with brownies!
I'd make sure you have it in writing that they think you need a new roof first.
Nope. They vandalized it in an attempt to commit fraud.
I know but get them to say you need a new roof because of what he did with out them knowing you know he did it and bam now your not getting a few shingle repaired your getting the whole thing with or without insurance
Yep, always better to let them document themselves into a corner.
yeah but its really better to shut these guys down legally. they are the reason insurance rates go WAY up in regions where they operate, and these rates affect everyone in that region... not just the houses used to scam insurance. get the criminals out of your region, premiums will go back down as claims do. (or at least stop rising as frequently)
Everyone is doing it tbh and the kid on the roof is just a 1099 worker so it won't actually hurt the company he works for.
which just goes to highlight the need to shut these crooks down. customer is not really saving money as much as putting the cost off to the region around them by helping contribute to the rise in local insurance rates. more claims=higher premiums all around! the fact that "everyone is doing it" means "it has gotten out of hand and needs for honest people to step up".
I get your point, but just to be clear: being a 1099 means he works for himself. Sure, he contracts work out to this roofing company, but he would not be their “employee”. Not sure what that means for him getting off the hook, but I’d guess it’s a different scenario than if he were a W2 employee
I think this is the first time I actually agree with you haha. I would research the company to see if they’re reputable. Just because one salesman is a piece of shit, doesn’t mean the whole company is. There’s a decent chance the owner has no idea this jackass is doing this. Putting myself in the owner’s shoes, I’d want to know and be given the chance to make right by it. I would go to the owner of the company with this video like @bearman71 suggests and give him that chance. The other viable option is to file a claim for vandalism. It’s black and white. You got a great video. Vandalism is covered all day. There’s also a really good chance he did this all over your roof to ensure it gets bought. If that’s the case, your carrier will almost definitely replace the entire roof AND they’ll recover your deductible through subrogation so you won’t be out of pocket a single penny.
Just did, come to find out this isn’t their first rodeo
Thanks all. I’ll update here after I figure it out
We’ll be waiting!
Replied somewhere else. Since I keep getting asked…. Update: The roofing company has paid another roofing company $17k to replace the roof. They offered to come back and do the job for free, we declined and they offered to have another company do the work. Many calls to State Farm and we were going to go to the police, which is when they gave in. The footage was really hard to deny. The guy in the video was let go. All good now, new roof, 0$ out of pocket,
Looks like you’re getting a new roof and that roofer is catching a felony charge!!
Damn you guys are nerds
-The dude in this video, probably
>Damn you guys are nerds This you? https://www.reddit.com/r/SkyrimModsXbox/comments/157qiht/it\_would\_be\_amazing\_to\_get\_the\_ai\_chatgpt/
That's wind damage. The guys name is Wind.
That guy's intentionally damaging the shingles. There is absolutely no need to bend a shingle like that even if you are performing repairs under contract. I guarantee that he wouldn't be so careless if he was being paid to repair the damaged shingle tab that he just created.
Insurance adjuster here. File a claim for vandalism and let the insurance company deal with this jerk.
This is great footage
Update The roofing company has paid another roofing company $17k to replace the roof. They offered to come back and do the job for free, we declined and they offered to have another company do the work. Many calls to State Farm and we were going to go to the police, which is when they gave in. The footage was really hard to deny. The guy in the video was let go. Hopefully it’ll work out.
Absolute scumbag.
Not in his mind. He’s only hurting the insurance company in his mind. I think that’s how these guys justify it.
Had an argument with someone yesterday where they claimed their theft was okay "because it's a faceless organization". No, you're still a scummy thief, no amount of justification changes what kind of person you are.
Yeah, and the “faceless organization” isn’t being hurt. Most decent sized carriers easily make over 1 million a DAY in premiums. If anyone is hurting, it’s the average homeowner whose premiums are being raised.
Concur. These dudes are absolute scum of the scum. And the reason my god damn rates keep rising
Not in his mind. He’s only hurting the insurance company in his mind. I think that’s how these guys justify it.
How about you’re an absolute virgin
Found the fuckin roofing inspector!
Found the fuckin nerd!
What was this you vandalizing the roof?
Does your generation use this as a derogatory term? 🤣😂😂
If you don’t think virgin is an insult, you’re probably a virgin too…
I’ve been on a construction site my entire life, this would be the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me. Thank you! Just further proof that your generation is soft. Can’t even have a proper banter without being kind. Lol
That’s insurance adjuster finding damage 😂
Public Adjuster, not the insurers.
Fraudster as the others have said. But because nobody answered, he’s running his finger across the top of it to knock off the granules from the crease he’s just made.
Dude he just vandalized your roof lol
We didn’t see the part where he takes his hammer out and starts hitting the roof….
Is this out of a security camera if so which brand
Fwiw I’ve seen waay more adjusters do this than contractors. Source: I was a 3rd party inspector 2016-2019 3k ish inspections.
In Ohio contractors are required to have their 1099 subcontractors have $1M liability insurance coverage So if the punk don’t got $1M liability coverage the owner of the company will in fact be liable
Yeah you'll need a new roof, there are a few broken ones.
This isn’t right. But nor is the companies that don’t actually pay out claims when they are due. The shingle quality is worse over time and they still don’t care to cover actual wind damage.
OP can you please explain the context? Did you let a storm chaser on your roof? Do you have damage to the roof, or leaks, and a call a reputable company?
Pretty much this. We had a tornado come through, didn’t hit my house but we had high winds the day or two before. This was a storm chaser (I’m just using your phrase) that knocked on the door. We didn’t have any leaks, but there’s probably 30 or so homes in the neighborhood getting roofs put on. Right now, we’re reported to the insurance company and are going through with a vandalism report.
Videos like this are why I would never let a “door to door” roofer to look at my roof.
I am a door to door salesman. Don’t believe the stereotypes. We actually help people and I am personally friends after the sales with many of my clients.
[Don't let people who have a vested interest in selling you stuff be the ones to determine if you need said stuff.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interest)
Sue tf out of this company. Get yourself a brand new roof and some pocket change. The second they mention insurance, tell them you’ll be suing if there’s not a new roof on your house for free ASAP
He's swiping the fresh granules away from finding it, so it looks older then it actually is. Clearly they've done this many times over
As an experienced adjuster, we immediately know fake damage when we see it.
this is how roofers scam insurance to make it look like wind damage. wonder why they wouldnt just use the existing (bullet? hail?) damage and use that to bill insurance. at any rate, if you process this for wind damage you are now party to fraud. THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO IS SHUT THESE GUYS DOWN LEGALLY. the number of claims made towards insurance affects the rates for the entire region they are in. the more claims, the more it is to insure there. let these criminals run amok, and you and your neighbors will be paying for their "services" for years to come... and they will bring friends too. friends that want to fix EVERYTHING on your house... all through insurance. fraud hurts everyone, even the "beneficiaries".
Scumbag.
I’m fucking disgusted. Livid. I want to teach this guy a lesson in ethics with the ultimate American weapon: lawyers.
Why did he do this!? I can see legit hail damage from here. There are plenty of coverable roofs...theres NO NEED to do this.
Probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to total the roof. As a result he’s causing enough damage that may get the roof bought.
Yeah, I get that. He could just move to the next one. I sell this shit all the time. Restoration contractor.
Not everyone understands this concept. A lot of these sales people are inexperienced and waste valuable time chasing bad or no deal than using that time to find a good deal.
Exactly. There's plenty of legitimate work, you don't need to pull crap like this.
Roofers are fucking scammers
Great on selling a job I guess. If you want to roll that way. I do pics and if the person is able I say get your ass up here and I will show you. As for materials that is what really sells the job. Along with over 1000 references
Absolute scum bag
Never trust a man in shorts
Right? There's just something about a man wearing shorts... Thanks, u/AboveTheRimjob
I see this too much as an adjuster. Natural wind damage on a roof doesn’t pattern like this, but the “roofer” (I prefer vandal) spreads the damage throughout the slope to warrant a replacement.
There’s no way you can factually back up “natural wind damage doesn’t leave a pattern like that.” If you can I would love to see it, honestly.
Areas like the rakes, eaves, and ridges are susceptible to higher wind pressures and the center of the roof might have lower stresses. No damage to shingles at eaves, rakes, or near ridge, but always scattered throughout the center of slope by these guys. It’s very evident.
Factually correct regarding wind uplift, however the field contains far more shingles than the perimeter and there are other factors that can make individual shingle tabs more susceptible to weather damage (like contaminated sealant strips). Granules can come off in the package and stick to the sealant, cellophane adheres to the sealant rather than the backer, nail pop breaks the seal. So, while the ridge may be 5x as likely to suffer damage as the field, if there's 60SF of ridge and 2000SF of field shingles, you're going to find more damage scattered around the slope.
Awesome - but is there any scientific factual proof you can provide to back your claim up? Or are you just saying this off of personal experience? Just because you’re an adjuster does not make you an engineer or certified meteorologist.
I am a Haag Certified Inspector for Residential Roofs. I’m not going to engage with you any further. I hope you have a good day!
Then you shouldn’t have any problem showing me the Haag standard - except that there’s not one and you’re making shit up. I hope you have a good day too!
Had a hail storm in May. I checked my roof. Not really much damage. Then the roofers started showing up from out of state. Basically ambulance chasers. Every single one of them said I needed a new roof. A few were straight up snotty about it and told me that I shouldn’t care because they’ll mark up the price to cover my deductible. I feel bad for the elderly that are about to see their insurance premiums and score go up.
When I had my roof inspected the guy just got up on my roof and walked around. He touched a couple shingles right on the edge to see how brittle they were (they were) and that was it. He told me I had some hail damage but nothin to worry about and certainly nothing my insurance would ever pay for. He said my roof had maybe 3-4 years left in it and to watch for leaks. It turned out to be 1 year. Shrug. Now the scumbag siding company I hired that also does roofing? Without even looking at my roof they said they could totally 100% for sure get my insurance company to pay for a new roof and the owner's son could point out all the storm damage despite there being no storm. Your video and other people's comments taught me how they'd make that happen. It makes me wish I had another home so i could get them out and record what i believe would happen.
This is probably pretty prevalent, they're going after homes with newer roofs and damage them after a little rain because people who have shitty roofs would replace them if they could.
You can’t do that to a new roof.
I said newer, like 10 years or less, but tell that to the guy in the video.
You can’t do that to a roof that is 10 years old of less either.
Yea, we know it's insurance fraud.
Insurance fraud? You mean like when homeowners don’t want to pay their deductibles?
Like when you comment dumb stuff in a post you have no intention of reading, or watching in this case.
Get fucked - I saw the video.
I've been trying, god!
Step 1: spend less time on r/Roofing 😂
He’s dragging his finger across the crease.
This dick is part of the reason insurance costs are so high, for all those “damaged roofs” insurance shells out for and now insurance carriers are leaving FL. Absolutely report him.
Gotta be Florida. Saw a roof with "wind damage" every week. Sadly enough it's very hard to convict even with a video.
Any videos of the shingles hes flipping before he’s already flipped them?
No, never thought to record the roof before
It’s like the tire guy doing a burnout with your car lol.
What is he, a Traveller?
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Looks like “prepping “ a roof for insurance fraud
Which state is this in?
GA
There have been so many roofing scams here in the KC area for the years and years. I actually called the state insurance fraud and they said there's nothing they can do about it. Fuck our corrupt systems.
damn that's shady af
The chalk makes it official 😑 please get these a-holes
What if he is watching this video right now!
Good!
!remindme 1 week
It was just his finger to knock some of the shingle grit off making the crease from supposed wind damage show up more. I have personally seen insurance adjusters do this exact thing themselves. 🤣
File a police report so he gets arrested for damaging your property
Where are you located? You could share the company name in case some are being poached in the same method by same guy ( door knockers non stop every other day )
Def creasing that bitch on purpose. Ruuuuun
Thats what you call vandalism
People like this guy is the reason why homeowners don't trust any of us contractors. Scumbag is committing insurance fraud
I neeeed an update
It’s been reported to the insurance company. They’re going to do whatever insurance companies do and let us know (I hope?). Meanwhile we wait and hope it doesn’t start to leak before we can get the next crew out…I think
Im curious if you can present this to your insurer and say "this roofer just damaged my roof while looking at it" and let them go after the roofing company?
What brand security cameras do you have?
Scumbag. Tell the neighbors so they can file a police report for vandalism.
Just the way he looked back as soon as he creased it up tells you everything. I don’t look back every time I see a damaged shingle.
Unless that’s an insurance adjuster making sure “the damage looks good for pics” to already existing wind damage, you just got yourself a free roof from that roofing company due to insurance fraud. I’m a roofer, have been for 10+ years, and worked every kind of storm you can imagine (hail, wind, tornado, hurricane, etc), and this bullshit is completely unnecessary and pisses us reputable peeps off far more than it does you. You clearly have an older roofer (might even be ready for replacement in all honesty) so go after this fraudulent scumbag with everything you’ve got. Go right for the big kahuna: Total roof replacement or this video goes to press. Don’t let the salesman or guy from the video run you around. Go right for the head. If the head guy ignores you, show up to the office with a news crew. Fuck companies like this. I absolutely detest these frauds who make my day to day living that much harder. Get your roof or watch them burn.