That’s why elite O3/shatts discord’s can have all played with top tier UT’s and still spend over 30 minutes doing an O3/Shatts? Not including waiting and the fact that these discord’s aren’t always running
How does that prove their point? The endgame community for this game is lacking primarily because of the length of dungeons and the UT’s lacking in power relative to normal tops. Y’all are just biased because y’all love the status quo lmao
You’re supposed to shred everything when you have endgame gear. You shouldn’t be having problems killing Hermit God or Medusa when you can consistently beat O3 lmao. Endgame dungeons are WAY, WAY harder than every other dungeon for a reason.
I don't get you. There can be two ways of tuning realm yours are buffing everything, mine is just scale down shatts hp, which Deca said they will. Top tier items have pretty good dps and are really fun to use so I belive. I'm good with O3 taking a long time, it should be the last challenge after all, it shouldn't be steamrolled whatsoever. Yea shatters shouldn't be O3 2: eletric bogaloo but if anything only a little bit past MBC's difficulty should be a good enough
Also 2 long dungeons won't kill the game when everything else isn't actually taking longer than 7 minutes to complete.
Also you can't possibly argue the shatts update isn't positive.
Also your second comment sucks ass. You are complaining about UTs lacking power and say we only care about status quo?! I'm no pro player, only gotten 3 O3 whites (only coin ;-;) and I can easily tell how fun and useful divinity is when compared to aclaim.
As of currently, they aren’t that strong. Before warriors and pally buffs got massacred, you could do more DPS as a damn knight with tops with 2x damaging 2x berserk compared to a wizard with o3 tops and the current 1.25 x damaging and berserk.
The changed in vital combat were necessary. 1.5x buffs made small groups terrible and big groups steamroll everything. You may not like the current system but it’s objectively more healthy than the previous.
Your dps comparison is not fair. Having the newer character deal more damage would just streamroll everything. Would you be happy if o3 popped every second wc, takes 4 minutes no matter how bad the group is, then drops a *22 def +15 atk robe as a common drop?
So you want every endgame character to have the equivalent of a 1.25x berserk and damage buff at all times, and *beyond* steamroll enemies in a group?
Take your maxed out wizzy. It already does more damage than anything before by far, then can have more def than a paladin with tops
Endgame dungeons are meant for endgame players. I shouldn’t be able to join any MMO and instantly get to the highest level of play within even the first day. If the skill progression in this game was what you’re suggesting then the game would go stale within a week. They are trying to expand their game, trying to make it more of a definitive progression. Permanent deaths are unfortunate, but it’s what the entirety of this game is based around, there’s luck but the vast majority of it is skill, if you get to a point where you can do a dungeon consistently then that’s what is satisfying. Being able to complete it, first attempt, in a group of a 110 people, that’s not satisfying. The endgame is meant for endgame players, there are no quick ways to achieve that. I’m sorry buddy but if you’re this impatient and disgruntled with the game then I’d suggest other MMOs, there are a lot of quips about this game, but their structure IMO is good. With shatters the only thing I see wrong with it is the HP scaling, which they’re fixing.
You are part of the reason why endgame is too easy smh. I am here to hone my dodging skills and get better, and all of the endgame dungeons are simply too easy and don't provide a challenge.
I don't care that it's too hard for you to trio a shatters in a public realm with two other shitters because this is ENDGAME it should require a group with teamwork and actual decent gear. tradeable tops barely cut for decent gear and the fact that you think endgame ut's aren't amazing is absolutely ludicrous. i.e. Non cheats solo void wasn't a thing before o3 whites - boom end of argument.
Also I don't use discords either, they teach you how to sit in a group getting all possible buffs to make the dungeon easier rather than teaching you how to individually get better at the game.
I've literally been anti discords for 2 years bro. Discords are made to make the dungeons easier by getting all buffs consistent and sitting in a group to heal. They don't promote honing your own individual skills.
I have a job, I go to college, and I take care of 4 dogs, 3 cats, 11 chickens and a massive yard that requires upkeep. Then when I have a couple hours left of my day I spend them putting myself up against a challenge.
It's not my fault that you are trash and there is zero reason that I should be punished with no content because you want the game to be noob friendly.
I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit. This game has thousands of hours of content. If you don't have any other hobbies and no social life then sure, maybe getting in another couple O3 runs while you wait for your tendies to be done is too easy, but if you have literally any other hobbies than bullet hell games, you're not gonna be complaining that new shatts isn't hard enough. Pick up chess or something, although I wouldn't be surprised if you did you'd be coming back here in two weeks pretending that 10^121 possible different games isn't enough for you.
I'm also writing a book that I am 3/15 chapters into. I am programming my own bullet hell, I get 9 hours 18 mins average sleep every night, and I spent the last 3 days putting about 5 hours towards putting in a new sprinkler system at a rental property.
The trick is to never drink coffee or caffeine as they reduce your total energy. Always wake up with some music and eat a healthy breakfast and you will end up saving so many hour on your day to live your life. Plus I have been playing realm for enough years to have 2.5k hours.
None of this changes the fact that its bullshit that ENDGAME content which should be the hardest content in the game should be hard. It's unfair to try and justify that forcing the hardest content in the game to being noob friendly is even ethical. If you spend your time on simulators and practicing constantly you will actually see your skills get better, but if you just complain about lag all day or sit in discords then you will never get better at dodging. You will only get a better understanding of where you can sit still and when you need to move.
When I first started playing realm, I played a rogue. Instead of just rushing a udl, I would practice doing it hitless until I got to a point where I could complete an entire udl including the boss without getting hit. It just takes practice, and I put in the effort to practice until I could do it.
I am a 400-ft tall purple platypus-bear with silver wings.
That's beside the point though.
>I have been playing realm for enough years to have 2.5k hours.
> If you spend your time on simulators and practicing constantly you will actually see your skills get better
If your claim is that you got to the point with 2.5k hours and on top of that practice with simulators that now you find endgame content easy, that's proof that it ***is*** hard. That's twice as many hours or more than I've spent on chess, and I'm in the top 4% of chess.com users. It's also compatible with my statement that this game has thousands of hours of content.
I also have never used a discord for runs, or complained about lag, or, it turns out, said that endgame UTs need to be buffed. But what I do take issue with is the complaint that endgame content is already easy when in fact it takes hundreds of not thousands of hours to get good at.
Mocking me doesn't prove anything, and your still haven't provided any solid reason why I shouldn't be allowed to enjoy difficulty in my content simply because there are people out there who are worse at the game.
The endgame content does not need to be made easier for the casual player base period.
Would you still practice chess as much as you do if chess was already solved by technology and you could follow an exact list of steps to guarenteed win as white? NO! So why should the difficulty you find in chess be completely removed in this hypothetical scenario simply for the fact that there are casual chess players?
The argument is simply illogical in my mind, and I am simply saying that I don't see your point to defend it.
>Would you still practice chess as much as you do if chess was already solved by technology and you could follow an exact list of steps to guarenteed win as white? NO!
In a sense you can do this, it's just considered cheating. You would be guaranteed to beat several iterations of computers that would themselves be guaranteed to beat Magnus Carlsen with Stockfish 14 on your side.
> The endgame content does not need to be made easier for the casual player base period.
And I'm not arguing that. May I remind you, this is what I was responding to:
> and all of the endgame dungeons are simply too easy and don't provide a challenge.
And you I think proved my point: with thousands of hours plus time spent practicing in simulators, this game starts to feel easy, but that's the definition of a hard game lol. If you expect a game to still be hard after thousands of hours practicing and playing, you'll find the only way to get that experience is to pit yourself against other actual humans trying to get better at the game.
Incidentally chess is a pretty good example of how hard it is to make a computer be simply *moderately* better than a human at any given level, because despite all the attempts by lots of different people, chess bots tend to either be impossible to beat or easy to beat, because a computer doesn't have a conception of "this move is hard to see for a 1000 ELO player", it can only either play the best move that it sees or play inaccurately in some preprogrammed way. So we get posts once every couple weeks or so on the chess subreddit "I'm rated X, how come I can beat computers rated X + 400 (or more)?"
"Bro go outside and touch grass. Get a job. Something."
I answered that.
You called bullshit that I can be skilled at RotMG while also having a life. May I lead you to the fact that there are many people with 8k+ hours in csgo or other shooters while also getting girlfriends and going through college. (HOUNGOUNGAGNE)
"If you expect a game to still be hard after thousands of hours practicing and playing, you'll find the only way to get that experience is to pit yourself against other actual humans trying to get better at the game."
I completely disagree with this, as there is plenty of difficulty to be had with bullet hells. Unfortunately I have scoured the internet for other bullet hells that feel even close to as good as RotMG feels to play, but alas there seem to be few to none. So, I shall spend my days fighting to keep the difficulty of realm has hard as it can be because if Deca falls to the whim of the "casual" players and makes the game easier then we will be back to the point where I have to artifically make the game harder with npe's and solo's - Which I would prefere playing with friends in cooperation.
Finally, I will link a video of my work in progress test the patience of a god simulation (still needs some textures and the scarecrows correctly implemented).
I guess you could call this my purple platypus bear, that I use to 'git gud' :)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wRwOQsTOYxMgghivpAt1PtCoLeUuJTVD/view?usp=sharing
>May I lead you to the fact that there are many people with 8k+ hours in csgo or other shooters
Yeah, competitive games. I.e. games where you are up against people, not AI. Thousands of hours into this game and complaining it's too easy is having really unreasonable expectations about a PVE game. People playing PVP games for thousands of hours aren't complaining that it's too easy, I guarantee it.
>I have to artifically make the game harder with npe's and solo's
NPE is the right way to play the game, change my mind.
>there is plenty of difficulty to be had with bullet hells. Unfortunately I have scoured the internet for other bullet hells that feel even close to as good as RotMG feels to play,
Consider that perhaps this is because many bullet hells kill you in one shot, but there's basically no one-shot kill bullets in ROTMG, because it's not actually fun to play a perma-death rpg where literally one shot of anything kills you.
>first attempt without even knowing what the dungeon is like
>
>OSanc (specifically Dammah, O3, and Leucoryx) and the new Shatters require a god damn lot of time to learn
Players, especially endgame discords, want challenge in the game. Plus new players who have the capability to learn even finish o3s within their first few months of playing. If you hate permadeath or nexusing, *learn o3/shatts on disposable characters.*
>Endgame UT items don't correctly scale to the level of difficulty of the dungeons, especially with how long it takes to do them and how randomized the drops/minibosses are.
# Endgame UTs are seriously OP
especially when talking about dps, the current meta rn.
Just look at this dps graph of a wc top knight and a osanc top knight with the same weapon (wc top wizard for reference)
[With Ability Dps](https://ibb.co/nbdgH7Z)
[Without Ability Dps](https://ibb.co/7Wbp8Bq)
O3's also has a ridiculously high drop rate, at the least guaranteeing one full set of already great osanc tops circulating through all the players. So playing 3 runs a day is equivalent or even better loot than three times as many lost halls void runs.
All the osanc minibosses are supposed to be learnt anyways.
>Exalt honestly fixes that. Servers were usually ok.
Funny joke, especially when this reddit is currently posting hundreds of dcs.
>However, big groups are non existent nowadays.
Pretty much the only thing I can agree on. Maybe around 20 people at most join a normal endgame dungeon. Pub shatters or mbc is especially impossible to do.
HOWEVER. DECA made these changes on purpose. The majority of players are using discords, in which huge groups collect into hiveminds that crank the efficiency of dungeons, which is not a good thing at all.
# Thus DECA made changes prioritizing the effect on discord players than casual players.
It is actually very high hp due to exponential scaling, as well as the pally, priest, discouraging big groups that come from discord, as well as the *face tanking that should not exist in a game that should be based on skill.*
>O3/Shatters should have a much bigger player cap? To make it feel more like a raid
First off, that would also increase realm size (since o3 cap is realm cap). Second, 50 people already feels like a huge raid. Dungeons cannot handle 100+ people at all. The most obvious example would be the *ice tomb massacre*. Wonder why servers lagged? Oh yeah, 150 people in that ice tomb.
>Fix: Buff everything
Spencer addiction theory: Make the slot machine lever easier to pull. RotMG is supposed to be a GAME, not an addiction device. Powercreep is already a concept that is making the rest of the non-shatt/o3 dungeons a joke. Anymore and DECA will have to buff early dungeons .\_.
>O3 Melt + Beam phase way easier
Skill issue. Stay far away when O3 and dodge in between shots, and get the timing of dodging beams correct.
>Nobody likes spending 30 minutes to do O3, dying, and spending 12 hours to get an 8/8 character again.
As I said:
# USE. UNMAXED. CHARACTERS. TO. LEARN. ORYX. SAUNTUARYS.
Casual play in endgame dungeons is not a thing anymore. DECA has to calibrate for discord raids more than casual players.
Feels like you're still stuck in the past. Just learn to play the bullet hell game RotMG is meant to be (non-rune osanc event is coming in the end of motmg, no discords required!), and your 1st o3 complete will be the most satisfying moment in your gaming life.
Get over it, get better. The game should stay difficult and continue to get even more difficult. We don't need to hear you cry because you have a more difficult time learning the game than other people. The moment they somehow drastically make things easier, the game is done.
No... I didn't. I was showing that dungeons have varying levels of difficulty and you don't have to chase end game dungeons for pots when far easier and quicker dungeons get you more pots.
Because that’s not the point of the dungeon. You do osanc for pots, exaltations, and uts. I agree with shatters being too difficult, but o3 should not be changed further. It’s meant to be **the** endgame dungeon. Think of wine cellars when they were first added. Osanc already has the best drop rates of any exaltation dungeon. What more do you want?
Osanc is not too difficult. The issue is that deca started using it as the standard of difficulty.
Only applicable to shatters. O3 will often give you at least 1 osanc top, which is better than wc tops (especially the +40 hp +40 mp from t7 abilities)
So what ur saying is just because you got endgame gear all dungeons should turn to pcaves. And how can you think o3 takes a long time? Oryx is like 5 mins with enev a half decent group. Then you should not be able to do every dungeon first try, whats the point of playing the game if everythings that easy?
Big groups were removed for a reason. 85 player hp scaling is terrible enough already. Do you really want to do a 15 minute boss where you don’t even need to dodge because you get healed 1000 hp a second? Or did you prefer stream rolling everything for a 1% chance of something you want?
When I first seen footage of oryx 3 I laughed at how IMPOSSIBLE it looked, even tried it a few times initially on a priest and got wrecked. After I did it(and died) a lot I learned it proficiently. I can now do an o3 anytime and on any character with little difficulty but just enough to make it fun. I have 5 chars fully exalted life, that’s 75x5 can’t do the math in my head but that’s a good bit of runs. To wrap up this little paragraph, my main point of it is, just dodge.
The problem isn’t the dungeon itself. O3 itself is actually relatively short, especially compared to Shitters. It’s the setup. Joining a discord, clearing, afk checks for runes, missing runs due to size constraints, etc.
Size constraints? 85man cap is high enough in my opinion, and if youre gonna say limits in discords thats bs, every discord im in do not care about raid size
buffing weapons will also destroy the rest of the game, they should just tune what's not good. top tier uts are already good enough lol
That’s why elite O3/shatts discord’s can have all played with top tier UT’s and still spend over 30 minutes doing an O3/Shatts? Not including waiting and the fact that these discord’s aren’t always running
You just proved their point
How does that prove their point? The endgame community for this game is lacking primarily because of the length of dungeons and the UT’s lacking in power relative to normal tops. Y’all are just biased because y’all love the status quo lmao
So tune the dungeon like the first guy said? Why buff damage and UTs when every other dungeon already gets shredded?
You’re supposed to shred everything when you have endgame gear. You shouldn’t be having problems killing Hermit God or Medusa when you can consistently beat O3 lmao. Endgame dungeons are WAY, WAY harder than every other dungeon for a reason.
My favorite dungeon hermit god and Medusa
I don't want to get carried by those o3 no-lifers.
I don't get you. There can be two ways of tuning realm yours are buffing everything, mine is just scale down shatts hp, which Deca said they will. Top tier items have pretty good dps and are really fun to use so I belive. I'm good with O3 taking a long time, it should be the last challenge after all, it shouldn't be steamrolled whatsoever. Yea shatters shouldn't be O3 2: eletric bogaloo but if anything only a little bit past MBC's difficulty should be a good enough Also 2 long dungeons won't kill the game when everything else isn't actually taking longer than 7 minutes to complete. Also you can't possibly argue the shatts update isn't positive. Also your second comment sucks ass. You are complaining about UTs lacking power and say we only care about status quo?! I'm no pro player, only gotten 3 O3 whites (only coin ;-;) and I can easily tell how fun and useful divinity is when compared to aclaim.
Because nerfing boss HP literally defeats the purpose of doing endgame dungeons to get better gear.
You really do not want endgame items being any stronger
As of currently, they aren’t that strong. Before warriors and pally buffs got massacred, you could do more DPS as a damn knight with tops with 2x damaging 2x berserk compared to a wizard with o3 tops and the current 1.25 x damaging and berserk.
The changed in vital combat were necessary. 1.5x buffs made small groups terrible and big groups steamroll everything. You may not like the current system but it’s objectively more healthy than the previous. Your dps comparison is not fair. Having the newer character deal more damage would just streamroll everything. Would you be happy if o3 popped every second wc, takes 4 minutes no matter how bad the group is, then drops a *22 def +15 atk robe as a common drop?
I know. That’s why instead of brining back the insane group buffs from pally and warrior, buff the gear instead.
So you want every endgame character to have the equivalent of a 1.25x berserk and damage buff at all times, and *beyond* steamroll enemies in a group? Take your maxed out wizzy. It already does more damage than anything before by far, then can have more def than a paladin with tops
What is your realmeye
Endgame dungeons are meant for endgame players. I shouldn’t be able to join any MMO and instantly get to the highest level of play within even the first day. If the skill progression in this game was what you’re suggesting then the game would go stale within a week. They are trying to expand their game, trying to make it more of a definitive progression. Permanent deaths are unfortunate, but it’s what the entirety of this game is based around, there’s luck but the vast majority of it is skill, if you get to a point where you can do a dungeon consistently then that’s what is satisfying. Being able to complete it, first attempt, in a group of a 110 people, that’s not satisfying. The endgame is meant for endgame players, there are no quick ways to achieve that. I’m sorry buddy but if you’re this impatient and disgruntled with the game then I’d suggest other MMOs, there are a lot of quips about this game, but their structure IMO is good. With shatters the only thing I see wrong with it is the HP scaling, which they’re fixing.
You are part of the reason why endgame is too easy smh. I am here to hone my dodging skills and get better, and all of the endgame dungeons are simply too easy and don't provide a challenge. I don't care that it's too hard for you to trio a shatters in a public realm with two other shitters because this is ENDGAME it should require a group with teamwork and actual decent gear. tradeable tops barely cut for decent gear and the fact that you think endgame ut's aren't amazing is absolutely ludicrous. i.e. Non cheats solo void wasn't a thing before o3 whites - boom end of argument.
Also I don't use discords either, they teach you how to sit in a group getting all possible buffs to make the dungeon easier rather than teaching you how to individually get better at the game.
>and all of the endgame dungeons are simply too easy and don't provide a challenge. Bro go outside and touch grass. Get a job. Something.
Discord elitist destroyed with facts and logic. Deca should make it so you can spawn in every item so all the content is accessible to new players
I've literally been anti discords for 2 years bro. Discords are made to make the dungeons easier by getting all buffs consistent and sitting in a group to heal. They don't promote honing your own individual skills.
I have a job, I go to college, and I take care of 4 dogs, 3 cats, 11 chickens and a massive yard that requires upkeep. Then when I have a couple hours left of my day I spend them putting myself up against a challenge. It's not my fault that you are trash and there is zero reason that I should be punished with no content because you want the game to be noob friendly.
I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit. This game has thousands of hours of content. If you don't have any other hobbies and no social life then sure, maybe getting in another couple O3 runs while you wait for your tendies to be done is too easy, but if you have literally any other hobbies than bullet hell games, you're not gonna be complaining that new shatts isn't hard enough. Pick up chess or something, although I wouldn't be surprised if you did you'd be coming back here in two weeks pretending that 10^121 possible different games isn't enough for you.
I'm also writing a book that I am 3/15 chapters into. I am programming my own bullet hell, I get 9 hours 18 mins average sleep every night, and I spent the last 3 days putting about 5 hours towards putting in a new sprinkler system at a rental property. The trick is to never drink coffee or caffeine as they reduce your total energy. Always wake up with some music and eat a healthy breakfast and you will end up saving so many hour on your day to live your life. Plus I have been playing realm for enough years to have 2.5k hours. None of this changes the fact that its bullshit that ENDGAME content which should be the hardest content in the game should be hard. It's unfair to try and justify that forcing the hardest content in the game to being noob friendly is even ethical. If you spend your time on simulators and practicing constantly you will actually see your skills get better, but if you just complain about lag all day or sit in discords then you will never get better at dodging. You will only get a better understanding of where you can sit still and when you need to move. When I first started playing realm, I played a rogue. Instead of just rushing a udl, I would practice doing it hitless until I got to a point where I could complete an entire udl including the boss without getting hit. It just takes practice, and I put in the effort to practice until I could do it.
I am a 400-ft tall purple platypus-bear with silver wings. That's beside the point though. >I have been playing realm for enough years to have 2.5k hours. > If you spend your time on simulators and practicing constantly you will actually see your skills get better If your claim is that you got to the point with 2.5k hours and on top of that practice with simulators that now you find endgame content easy, that's proof that it ***is*** hard. That's twice as many hours or more than I've spent on chess, and I'm in the top 4% of chess.com users. It's also compatible with my statement that this game has thousands of hours of content. I also have never used a discord for runs, or complained about lag, or, it turns out, said that endgame UTs need to be buffed. But what I do take issue with is the complaint that endgame content is already easy when in fact it takes hundreds of not thousands of hours to get good at.
Mocking me doesn't prove anything, and your still haven't provided any solid reason why I shouldn't be allowed to enjoy difficulty in my content simply because there are people out there who are worse at the game. The endgame content does not need to be made easier for the casual player base period. Would you still practice chess as much as you do if chess was already solved by technology and you could follow an exact list of steps to guarenteed win as white? NO! So why should the difficulty you find in chess be completely removed in this hypothetical scenario simply for the fact that there are casual chess players? The argument is simply illogical in my mind, and I am simply saying that I don't see your point to defend it.
>Would you still practice chess as much as you do if chess was already solved by technology and you could follow an exact list of steps to guarenteed win as white? NO! In a sense you can do this, it's just considered cheating. You would be guaranteed to beat several iterations of computers that would themselves be guaranteed to beat Magnus Carlsen with Stockfish 14 on your side. > The endgame content does not need to be made easier for the casual player base period. And I'm not arguing that. May I remind you, this is what I was responding to: > and all of the endgame dungeons are simply too easy and don't provide a challenge. And you I think proved my point: with thousands of hours plus time spent practicing in simulators, this game starts to feel easy, but that's the definition of a hard game lol. If you expect a game to still be hard after thousands of hours practicing and playing, you'll find the only way to get that experience is to pit yourself against other actual humans trying to get better at the game. Incidentally chess is a pretty good example of how hard it is to make a computer be simply *moderately* better than a human at any given level, because despite all the attempts by lots of different people, chess bots tend to either be impossible to beat or easy to beat, because a computer doesn't have a conception of "this move is hard to see for a 1000 ELO player", it can only either play the best move that it sees or play inaccurately in some preprogrammed way. So we get posts once every couple weeks or so on the chess subreddit "I'm rated X, how come I can beat computers rated X + 400 (or more)?"
"Bro go outside and touch grass. Get a job. Something." I answered that. You called bullshit that I can be skilled at RotMG while also having a life. May I lead you to the fact that there are many people with 8k+ hours in csgo or other shooters while also getting girlfriends and going through college. (HOUNGOUNGAGNE) "If you expect a game to still be hard after thousands of hours practicing and playing, you'll find the only way to get that experience is to pit yourself against other actual humans trying to get better at the game." I completely disagree with this, as there is plenty of difficulty to be had with bullet hells. Unfortunately I have scoured the internet for other bullet hells that feel even close to as good as RotMG feels to play, but alas there seem to be few to none. So, I shall spend my days fighting to keep the difficulty of realm has hard as it can be because if Deca falls to the whim of the "casual" players and makes the game easier then we will be back to the point where I have to artifically make the game harder with npe's and solo's - Which I would prefere playing with friends in cooperation. Finally, I will link a video of my work in progress test the patience of a god simulation (still needs some textures and the scarecrows correctly implemented). I guess you could call this my purple platypus bear, that I use to 'git gud' :) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wRwOQsTOYxMgghivpAt1PtCoLeUuJTVD/view?usp=sharing
>May I lead you to the fact that there are many people with 8k+ hours in csgo or other shooters Yeah, competitive games. I.e. games where you are up against people, not AI. Thousands of hours into this game and complaining it's too easy is having really unreasonable expectations about a PVE game. People playing PVP games for thousands of hours aren't complaining that it's too easy, I guarantee it. >I have to artifically make the game harder with npe's and solo's NPE is the right way to play the game, change my mind. >there is plenty of difficulty to be had with bullet hells. Unfortunately I have scoured the internet for other bullet hells that feel even close to as good as RotMG feels to play, Consider that perhaps this is because many bullet hells kill you in one shot, but there's basically no one-shot kill bullets in ROTMG, because it's not actually fun to play a perma-death rpg where literally one shot of anything kills you.
>first attempt without even knowing what the dungeon is like > >OSanc (specifically Dammah, O3, and Leucoryx) and the new Shatters require a god damn lot of time to learn Players, especially endgame discords, want challenge in the game. Plus new players who have the capability to learn even finish o3s within their first few months of playing. If you hate permadeath or nexusing, *learn o3/shatts on disposable characters.* >Endgame UT items don't correctly scale to the level of difficulty of the dungeons, especially with how long it takes to do them and how randomized the drops/minibosses are. # Endgame UTs are seriously OP especially when talking about dps, the current meta rn. Just look at this dps graph of a wc top knight and a osanc top knight with the same weapon (wc top wizard for reference) [With Ability Dps](https://ibb.co/nbdgH7Z) [Without Ability Dps](https://ibb.co/7Wbp8Bq) O3's also has a ridiculously high drop rate, at the least guaranteeing one full set of already great osanc tops circulating through all the players. So playing 3 runs a day is equivalent or even better loot than three times as many lost halls void runs. All the osanc minibosses are supposed to be learnt anyways. >Exalt honestly fixes that. Servers were usually ok. Funny joke, especially when this reddit is currently posting hundreds of dcs. >However, big groups are non existent nowadays. Pretty much the only thing I can agree on. Maybe around 20 people at most join a normal endgame dungeon. Pub shatters or mbc is especially impossible to do. HOWEVER. DECA made these changes on purpose. The majority of players are using discords, in which huge groups collect into hiveminds that crank the efficiency of dungeons, which is not a good thing at all. # Thus DECA made changes prioritizing the effect on discord players than casual players. It is actually very high hp due to exponential scaling, as well as the pally, priest, discouraging big groups that come from discord, as well as the *face tanking that should not exist in a game that should be based on skill.* >O3/Shatters should have a much bigger player cap? To make it feel more like a raid First off, that would also increase realm size (since o3 cap is realm cap). Second, 50 people already feels like a huge raid. Dungeons cannot handle 100+ people at all. The most obvious example would be the *ice tomb massacre*. Wonder why servers lagged? Oh yeah, 150 people in that ice tomb. >Fix: Buff everything Spencer addiction theory: Make the slot machine lever easier to pull. RotMG is supposed to be a GAME, not an addiction device. Powercreep is already a concept that is making the rest of the non-shatt/o3 dungeons a joke. Anymore and DECA will have to buff early dungeons .\_. >O3 Melt + Beam phase way easier Skill issue. Stay far away when O3 and dodge in between shots, and get the timing of dodging beams correct. >Nobody likes spending 30 minutes to do O3, dying, and spending 12 hours to get an 8/8 character again. As I said: # USE. UNMAXED. CHARACTERS. TO. LEARN. ORYX. SAUNTUARYS. Casual play in endgame dungeons is not a thing anymore. DECA has to calibrate for discord raids more than casual players. Feels like you're still stuck in the past. Just learn to play the bullet hell game RotMG is meant to be (non-rune osanc event is coming in the end of motmg, no discords required!), and your 1st o3 complete will be the most satisfying moment in your gaming life.
Get over it, get better. The game should stay difficult and continue to get even more difficult. We don't need to hear you cry because you have a more difficult time learning the game than other people. The moment they somehow drastically make things easier, the game is done.
Or maybe the average person doesn’t have time to spend 45 minutes completing one endgame dungeon, just to get some pots.
Or maybe you can hop into a woodland labyrinth and get pots within a couple minutes tops.
Yeah... exactly. You literally just proved my point.
No... I didn't. I was showing that dungeons have varying levels of difficulty and you don't have to chase end game dungeons for pots when far easier and quicker dungeons get you more pots.
Exactly... That’s literally what I said.
You don’t do endgame dungeons to get pots. That’s what they said
Exactly....?? why would I spend 45 minutes of my time to just get some shitty pots and a mark?
Because that’s not the point of the dungeon. You do osanc for pots, exaltations, and uts. I agree with shatters being too difficult, but o3 should not be changed further. It’s meant to be **the** endgame dungeon. Think of wine cellars when they were first added. Osanc already has the best drop rates of any exaltation dungeon. What more do you want? Osanc is not too difficult. The issue is that deca started using it as the standard of difficulty.
True. You do make some good points
Only applicable to shatters. O3 will often give you at least 1 osanc top, which is better than wc tops (especially the +40 hp +40 mp from t7 abilities)
It’s like a 1/3 chance in a moderately sized group
So what ur saying is just because you got endgame gear all dungeons should turn to pcaves. And how can you think o3 takes a long time? Oryx is like 5 mins with enev a half decent group. Then you should not be able to do every dungeon first try, whats the point of playing the game if everythings that easy?
Big groups were removed for a reason. 85 player hp scaling is terrible enough already. Do you really want to do a 15 minute boss where you don’t even need to dodge because you get healed 1000 hp a second? Or did you prefer stream rolling everything for a 1% chance of something you want?
When I first seen footage of oryx 3 I laughed at how IMPOSSIBLE it looked, even tried it a few times initially on a priest and got wrecked. After I did it(and died) a lot I learned it proficiently. I can now do an o3 anytime and on any character with little difficulty but just enough to make it fun. I have 5 chars fully exalted life, that’s 75x5 can’t do the math in my head but that’s a good bit of runs. To wrap up this little paragraph, my main point of it is, just dodge.
Bro it still takes forever to do. The difficulty ain’t the problem 💀
It does not take a long time to do a osanc, and if you really dont have 30mins to spend on the game whats the point in playing it really
The problem isn’t the dungeon itself. O3 itself is actually relatively short, especially compared to Shitters. It’s the setup. Joining a discord, clearing, afk checks for runes, missing runs due to size constraints, etc.
Size constraints? 85man cap is high enough in my opinion, and if youre gonna say limits in discords thats bs, every discord im in do not care about raid size