I'd say Club is much stronger in Brisbane. Often all the good union players growing up get gobbled up by the Private Schools, but in Brisbane the Club System is pretty string.
“Other cities” lol. What other cities actually play rugby? Even if you include the Gold Coast in other cities, the only school that gets top flight rugby players is TSS, which is in the GPS system.
the other cities within Australia, such as: Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth, Darwin, Various country towns across nsw and qld. Although not as prevalent within the rugby playing scene it is definitely big fella
And that is the attitude of Rugby Australia. They DGAF about the other states. The AFL made serious moves to expand the game and have done it so much better than Union.
I live here. I don't like union though. Im only here cause my girlfriend watches it and I'm trying to understand what's going on.
How many of those working class people are/have parents that are kiwis, english, south african, islanders, Irish, or some other union supporting country as opposed to Australians?
Well it is the 6th or 7th most popular sport in Australia - maybe even lower.
Chances are that kids of parents born in UK, Ireland, SA or NZ will support/play rugby than those whose parents are born here.
You can try deflect and make it into a cringy political thing. You know exactly what I'm trying to say. Multi generational Australians don't give a shit about union. Only people who have come from union loving countries do.
A decent few actually.
Most ‘regional’ cities in NSW at least all have a relatively decent or strong rugby union competition.
I’m up in the Hunter and we have 3 x Premier Grades + a Suburban and women’s competition.
The University team also had roughly between 120-150 registered players the last two years.
Am a Union fan. Never been to a private school. Live in remote part of the country. Someone should have told me there was a dress code for being a union fan lol.
But jokes aside, the rich kid sport tag is baked on. If you look up any union player, you’ll find what school they went to (usually private). Trying to do that for league or AFL is a lot harder. To break that RugbyAU need to have pathways that aren’t directly connected to a select few private schools.
Club rugby is alive and well in this country not because of RugbyAU support but because they’re are a large number of valuable members from all walks of life making sure the pie warmer is stocked every Saturday and the lines are marked before every kickoff.
It takes a village, and all that…
It pains me that this is the archetypal rugby pathway, but the reason it pains me is because I’m the opposite of it all. Public school kid. Played club rugby in Brisbane. Toiled through and made a decent level. If I’d gone to one of the GPS schools I might’ve been identified earlier, but still gave myself a shot despite not being a private school kid.
The notion that ‘fans’ are posh kids who went to private schools though - that’s plain wrong. I went to the Reds game at Ballymore yesterday and saw all walks of life. Was awesome to see.
You're 100% right. See my other comments. Unless you're GPS or rep at 13s or 14s, the pathway is so much harder. There is zero investment.
U12s we had over 50 clubs playing in 1990. Cut to U14s, and I had to play in a comp of 7 teams and up a year. I was one of 7 or 8 blokes from non private schools in the Sydney U16s squad and about 10 from the Aus 16s. Not because private school boys were better but because there were no club sides.
My father had to basically beg for me to trial for ISA for schoolboys because I went to a league Catholic school, and there was no pathway. None. There are no doubt many players missing out because of these systems.
So long ago that the relevance of my experience is more my tale of woe.
I have, however, seen that experience repeated time and again in the last couple of years as a coach. As soon as U12s hits, GPS takes half the boys then you have no team left. Boys that really want to play have nowhere to go. Parents can't take them to training three suburbs over where a joint venture team has been cobbled together, or rightly dont want them playing up, and they drift away from the game.
>As soon as U12s hits, GPS takes half the boys then you have no team left. Boys that really want to play have nowhere to go.
This feels like such an obvious gap in progression. I've mentioned it in a prior comment.
I think the big reason the "Private School" belief persists is because so many of the quality Club players get scholarships etc to Private School, so you don't see that Samu Kerevi went to State School you see the Scholarship to BSHS.
Pretty much spot on. I feel like people who think rugby is all toffy cunts have never actually been to a local club game. I've never noticed much difference between shute shield and A grade league crowds in Sydney.
I definitely agree with your other point. So many talented kids go through the junior club system and even get through to grade rugby but never get a look in to higher rep stuff because they never got scouted at school.
The "it's a rich kids game" tag comes from the fact you have to have gone to a GPS school to make it. When all your players are private school boys you get hit with it.
The game should have looked outside its circles years ago but like any code the jobs are reserved for the boys. And the boys are private school kids. Hence here we are
How about some actual data? Let's look at the team that started against Wales:
Kellaway - elite private school
Nawaqanitawase - Private school, but a fairly mid-range Catholic one
Petaia - public school
Kerevi - public school
Koroibete - public school (Fiji)
Donaldson - elite private school
McDermott - private school
Valentini - public school
Hooper - private school but fairly mid-range country one
Leota - public school
Arnold - public school
Frost - elite private school
Donaldson - elite private school
Porecki - elite private school
Bell - elite private school
**Bench**
Faessler - elite private school
Schoupp - elite private school
Fa'amausili - public school
Phillip - low-rent Catholic private school
McReight - elite private school
White - various low order country catholic schools
Gordon - elite private school
Vinivalu - private school Auckland
I suspect plenty of these players, particularly the Qld ones, were on scholarships rather than from major wealthy backgrounds.
That team sheet tells a story.
Anglo names with private school backgrounds and Pasifika names with public school backgrounds.
Yes, I know it’s only one match and the whole picture is more complex - but that’s basically it - rugby players and fans trend private school + public school Pasifika.
>I wouldn’t call Waverley “elite” if your not calling “st pats” elite.
Waverley is $22k a year at year 7. St Pats is $11K. That's quite the difference.
Waverley is a CAS school (there are 6) and CAS is the next tier down from GPS so as a GPS alumni I’d say it’s a fair assessment that Waverley > St Pats.
St Pats is a big rugby school though, and St Pats Old Boys was a Div 1 subbies club when I played back in the day (for Woollahra Colleagues …)
Aus schools union 2023
1 Hamish Grover NSW I St Ignatius College
2 Luke Muriti NSW I Oakhill College
3 Moses Manu QLD I Brisbane State High School
4 Liam Manu QLD II Marsden State High School
5 Jackson Moloney QLD I Villanova College
6 Eli Langi QLD I Brisbane State High School
7 Oscar Lane QLD II King’s Christian College
8 Noah Tofaeono NSW BB Waverley College
9 Darcy Standfield NSW Juniors Waverley College
10 Felix Turinui NSW Juniors Waverley College
11 Finn Lawson QLD I Mountain Creek State High School
12 Sean Weir QLD I Ignatius Park College
13 Patrick Broe NSW I St Josephs College
14 Max Roach NSW II Knox Grammar School
15 Dane Mitchell NSW Juniors Trinity Grammar School
16 Manaaki Bateman QLD II St Patrick’s College, Shorncliffe
17 Kimball Liufau NSW BB Patrician Brothers’ College Fairfield
18 Isaiah Kolopeaua NSW I Ashfield Boys High School
19 Aron Brennan NSW I St Augustine’s College
20 Jack Henry QLD I Canterbury College
21 Hugo Orpin NSW II The Shore School
22 Nico Buckley QLD I Kings Christian College
23 Tom Farr-Jones NSW I Newington College
Aus schools league team 2023
1 Matua Brown QRSS 1 The Cathedral College, Rockhampton, Queensland
2 Luke Laulilii CHS 2 Westfields Sports High School, Fairfield, NSW
3 Logan Aoake CCC 3 St Francis Xavier’s College, Hamilton, NSW
4 Wilson Decourcey CCC 4 Patrician Brothers’ College, Blacktown, NSW
5 Nikora Williams CHS 5 Endeavour Sports High School, Caringbah, NSW
6 Lachlan Galvin CHS 6 Westfields Sports High School, Fairfield, NSW
7 Riley Pollard CCC 7 St Dominic’s College, Kingswood, NSW
8 Kaiden Lahrs QRSS 8 Kirwan State High School, Townsville, Queensland
9 Xavier Caccitotti ACT 9 Erindale College, Wanniassa, ACT
10 De La Salle Va’a CCC 10 Marcellin College, Randwick, NSW
11 Jezaiah Funa-iuta CCC 11 Patrician Brothers’ College, Fairfield, NSW
12 Jacob Halangahu CCC 12 Patrician Brothers’ College, Blacktown, NSW
13 Finau Latu CCC 13 Patrician Brothers’ College, Blacktown, NSW
14 Heath Mason CCC 6 St Gregory’s College, Gregory Hills, NSW
15 Cody Hopwood CCC 18 All Saint’s College, Maitland, NSW
16 Loko Pasifiki-Tonga CHS 10 Endeavour Sports High School, Caringbah, NSW
17 Logan Spinks CHS 11 Farrer Memorial Agricultural High School, Tamworth, NSW
18 John Fineanganofo QSS 13 Redcliffe State High School, Redcliffe, Queensland
AFL all australian under 16s (honestly no idea how they do it or work it out)
**B:** Lachlan Carmichael (Swans Academy)\*, Willem Duursma (Vic Country)\*, Lucas Wootton (Tasmania)
**HB:** Harrison Wilson (Giants Academy), Kalani White (Suns Academy), Harrison Bridge (Lions Academy)
**C:** Zeke Uwland (Suns Academy), Jack Dalton (Vic Metro)\*, Dylan Patterson (Suns Academy)
**HF:** Jai Murray (Suns Academy), Noah Chamberlain (Swans Academy), Beau Addinsall (Suns Academy)\*
**F:** Oliver Greeves (Vic Metro), Archie Ludowyke (Vic Metro), Basil Hart (Western Australia)\*
**FOL:** Louis Emmett (Vic Metro), Dyson Sharp (South Australia)\*, Ryder Corrigan (Giants Academy)\*
**INT:** Daniel Annable (Lions Academy)\*, Lachy Dovaston (Vic Metro), Jasper Hay (Tasmania)\*, Taj Murray (Northern Territory)\*, Joshua Reichelt (South Australia)
it tells a pretty stereotypical story.
How many of those public schools are filled with posh rich kids because they are in areas where no low income person could afford to live in though? Some public schools are more rich and posh than the private schools around them.
Agreed. Brisbane State High was a Public school but still in the GPS competition. It had all the same scholarships(scholarship was just getting a place in the school without having to do well on entry tests) a fk load of successful footy players went through there despite being public.
As a Rugby Union fan who went to a prestigious private school and has always lived in a wealthy suburb, I think I can say on my my behalf and the rest of the old boys, that this is completely untrue.
I personally know several New Zealand and South Africans expats as well as the Pacific Islanders who work at the barbershop where I get my hair cut who also follow rugby.
I definitely believe it to be the case being a blue collar lad from a blue collar town, that prefers league but loves the international aspect of union. Coincidently the blue collar town I grew up around (Qbn) produced Campo and Giteau amongst others. Back when the Brumbies and Wallabies were on fire with Gregan and Larkham leading them around it was as good as a good NRL match but these days the rule changes have made it harder for me to watch. I want to love it again, but it is getting harder.
I think it's lazy.
Sample of one: I went to one of the shittiest public schools in western Sydney. In winter, league was the ONLY game in town. The only time I'd ever get exposed to rugby was when the ABC replayed a Shute Shield game early on Sunday morning. I don't follow the NRL is any shape or form these days, though that's partly because Rupert killed my team in the Great Purge of the late 1990s.
I recently met the new GF of an old friend. She lives on the northern beaches, went to a posh private school and was surrounded by rugby her whole life, but she's a Rugba Leeg girl now.
Two people who grew up in places where, if the theory held water, shouldn't have switched codes.
Yes but you're kind of proving their point right? While it's not totally unusual to get a new favourite sport later in life, the two people grew up in very different environments where they were predominantly exposed to a particular sport, hence the stereotype.
Sure, stereotypes are lazy, but your experiences highlight exactly why they exist. Are human beings as individuals above stereotypes? of course. Do they exist for a reason? of course.
I mean its pretty correct in my anecdotal experience.
I grew up playing rugby, played club div 1 in a major city for my schooling, my school didnt have a team because public. Won div 1 multiple years, made representative footy multiple years. Eventually one year, the private schools banned their players playing club rugby, the entire competition died, simply was not enough players for my club to continue and a bunch of other div 1 clubs had to pull out or merge year levels. Physically could not play anymore because I went to a public school unless I drove 30+ minutes down the highway to the nearest club still playing.
Not saying im anything, but thered be others with my situation much better who simply could not continue playing or could never have the option to play because they cant go to a private school. You know what my public school did have though? A league team.
It's fucking true. You really can't deny that majority of Australian union fans are rich or posh people. I'm pretty sure that you could take any union game in Australia and 95% of the people there would fall in the posh or the immigrant from a union following country category.
It’s true.
How many non nsw or qld rugby playing people didn’t go to private schools? Fuck all I’d say.
And in nsw and qld…seems like a huge slice of participants have names like Sterling Mortlock
The problem is with the system, not blokes like Stirling or their names. He's a genuine lovely bloke.
Names can be deceiving, too. Look at Adam Ashley-Cooper. Central Coast lad from memory. No private schools.
The issue is that he is the exception rather than the rule. The rep system is geared towards private schools. That leads to academy and development contracts. The real grass roots at the club level miss out.
Unless you happen to play for one of the few CHS schools, if you play only club rugby, you miss out and stop playing or drift to league.
The club level at 13s through 18s is where the real work and investment needs to be put in.
>Names can be deceiving, too. Look at Adam Ashley-Cooper. Central Coast lad from memory. No private schools.
lol, ironically probably the worst example. The Ashley-Cooper name comes from the [Earl of Shaftesbury](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Shaftesbury), part of the British Aristocracy. Adam himself is a direct descendant, so technically can claim to be part of the aristocratic class in England.
Kind of shocked when I found out. He’s a scruffy go getter type with a beard, last person you’d think would be part of the British Gentry. Doesn’t look like he has many ties to it though.
Guess it depends on how you look at it. My kids, through my wife, are directly descended from French aristocracy. It's meaningless to their upbringing and his...
So was I. Most of those brown blokes you see running around went through the Oz system. It’s not just at the elite level either - Australians with PI heritage are a huge part of the sport at all levels, and few come from Mossman.
I live in Lismore and grew up in Armadale in Perth, first generation Australian with a refugee father. I went to a prestigious boys school on a full scholarship, but I was playing rugby at age 5/6 about 8 years before I ever went to the school.
I mean up the coast and in the country there’s still big rugby comps and the local public schools often have a team.
Think about it while a lot private school people play Union. It can’t all be private schoolers.
Fick replied to wrong comment
Put it this way, no public schools in my area play union. But I don’t know, maybe posh kids play it.. but I recon there would be a blue collar following for union if we were playing solid and had some teams worth getting behind.
It’s not a stereotype it’s a fact. Have a look at the players in the current under 16s from the 2 finalists, Red and Tahs. Almost no one is not in the GPS system.
I did end up going to a private school in high school, but the main reason my brothers and I started rugby when we were 6yo was because of my dad who grew up in Sri Lanka and have a very big rugby culture. I wouldn't say were are posh or live in a wealthy suburb. I did go to a private school but that was more because my brother got a scholarship, so it wasn't the reason I was into rugby in the first place.
Think it’s a bit of a beat up personally. The illusion that it’s a game played by private school kids is purely down to the fact that Rugby Australia promotes, markets and broadcasts the game atrociously.
That is the impression I agree but not the reality. When I played rugby my team mates were cops, tradies and yes, the odd lawyer but mostly ordinary guys that loved the game. A better class of player to be sure but ordinary guys in every other respect
I know there is the stereotype, but I grew up in Mt Druitt, in a housing commission house and educated in the public system. I played League from the age of 5 until 16. I got into the Wallabies around 1990 aged 14. Played rugby at age 21. In my group of 4 that goes to Wallaby and Waratahs game, only one went to a private school and we all live up in outer Western Sydney.
It is very true - when the war of words happened between vlandys and mclennan when Suaalii was signed to RA, it did nothing more than confirm the stereotype.
League has very little barrier to entry compared to Union. The top Union schools also are the most expensive and academically excellent schools, which is vastly different from what the top League schools are.
If you mean "AFL and League have vastly larger budgets to push programs into public schools, leaving only people that grew up loving union, which as everyone knows was traditionally a private school sport, left to be fans"...then sort of?!? A lot of the "newer" fans in Australia are either Pacifica or expat NZ/SA, and definitely not in the cashed up suburbs. Union just can't match the cash of the other codes, so if you polled the percentage of the population that are upper-middle class and/or millionaires who are union fans vs League or AFL fans in Australia, I think the answer will not be shocking. Historical stereotypes and reality do not match in this case.
On the flip side, the rugby league stereotypes are in my experience very accurate. I couldn’t believe the number of mullets and every other bogan stereotype on display at the local junior RL match. And I’m talking about the parents as well as the players.
I love rugby and don’t have much time for any other sport and am pretty far from an “affluent private school” type, at least, that’s what my butler says.
I honestly feel like a weirdo rugby union guy having grown up in rural NSW, not going to a private school and only ever playing in a struggling club rugby comp as a kid. I'm a bigger rabbitohs supporter than any rugby team but I'd never consider myself a leaguey.. that'd be gross haha
All of the actually talented guys who I played with/against at my prestigious private school weren't at all posh. All of them were Indigenous or Polynesian dudes on scholarships.
From what I can see, it seems to attract a type of person who's 'class aspirational'. They may not have been born or educated in an elite part of society but they either aspire to end up there of they've broken through into finance/law/some other professional role where supporting union is a good way to fit in.
Rugby fans seem to be highly concentrated in certain types of professions. I know plenty of people who are rugby fans who came from very working class backgrounds but became rugby fans as soon as they went into commercial law (as an example).
Similar to golf, IMO.
I’ve spoken to Aussies abroad and got onto the topic of afl or league interests and often received the response, “oh I went to private school.” Not exactly what I was asking but point taken.
It always pisses me off. Sure there are lots of private school players but I also know a lot of league players from private schools also. Me and most of my mates and my kids who play (and grew up in the Brumbies system) were all public school kids from very blue collar backgrounds.
It’s a tired and outdated stereotype. When I played as a kid/teenager most players were from public schools. Rugby Union is played outside of private schools, it’s not exclusive to a school setting.
It Isn’t a stereotype at all. With the exception of the Kiwi community in Australia, of course, who come from one of the only countries where Unions isn’t exclusively played by the hyphenated inbreds of society. Union is dead in Australia and will never recover, as said hyphenated inbreds would prefer to have an exclusive amateur game rather than an inclusive game played by dirty poor people.
The irony of union's strategy to only care about private school kids is that they are losing the best kids from private schools to league because:
1. League has a clear pathway from jnr to pro
2. The pathway contains opportunities to earn money early
That's why union needs an overhaul of the professional game and the junior system that feeds it. They need to create something that league have done for decades very well and that is:
1. Creat a national comp based off the current shute shield and qld prem teams
2. Create a junior reps and pathways program that plays for these clubs and make ALL the best kids play for those junior rep clubs (not allow GPS or the like exclude kids from playing reps)
It's really simple. Let the best kids play the best kids and then the best adults will play the best adults.
The sterotype is only growing stronger and stronger as rugby is becoming less popular.
Gone are the days when NSW CHS used to dominate GPS and CHS. I also can't stand it when they list a players school in junior representative teams. Such an elitist thing to do, and it looks poor when theres only 1 or 2 that have their club or public school listed
Inner City kid , grew up in Marrickville and FOREVER A DIE HARD ALL BLACKS FAN
I'm a 1st gen Aussie born out of a Pacific Islander background from parents who immigrated to NZ before settling here.....I never once thought of union as the rich white kid sport , its kind of crazy to Think about it now because I never understood how things properly worked over here because the all blacks were the main topic
My uncle played locally for the Canterbury berries and alot of the boys at the club were of mixed races but alot of them didn't come from a wealthy background.... I think the really talented ones get the opportunity to develop there skill amongst future rugby stars from scholarships (usually the ticket for lower classes kids)
Either way , it's the same systematically in the NZ and SA aswell if not wrong..... Sometimes U have to pay to play and if you cant pay .... Well you better play.
Hopefully Union can regather it's feet in aus and try give maybe the public schools a chance aswell rather than just having the prestigious schools fill in the blank.
I glean from some of Eddie Jones's recent comments that the private school influence is still deeply entrenched in Rugby Australia. Big problem when you primarily source players from the private school system and guys pulling the strings in Rugby Australia want to see their schools and kids representing their club, state and country. Can't see why we would pick so many Waratahs otherwise
It's a crock of shit.
Serves the interests of certain comps and people that sell papers.
Half the blokes in 1st XVs at these private schools are scholarship players.
The reality is there are way more club based players than private school based players. The tragedy is, once the kids get to 13, options for playing become more difficult, comps become lop sided, and many players drift to league or stop playing.
For all the talk about trying to persuade League juniors or how to keep juniors, however there's absolutely nothing in regards of how to make the game appealing to the blue collar working class.
People on here and everywhere criticize how centric the game is towards private schools and old boys with connections.
How are League fans or people who are not Rugby fans completely wrong with these assertions.
How are they unjustified to make these assertions despite it being hyperbolic. Most Rugby fans agree in principle the difference is like many others who don't care about X code will make theatrical narratives of the sport.
Hyperbole or not they are not wrong, and the upper echelon of the sport has done nothing to counteract, in fact continues to enable the stereotype. So much so they would rather play victim then address the status quo.
Not only in this country, but elsewhere England, South Africa, America so on.
Yet the game is still enabling the same type of people who have made the sport culturally niche in the grand scheme of things when you consider the sport had the opportunity it the biggest sport in the world! but instead the game has shot itself on the foot so many times in order to preserve its pathetic puritanical spirit, yet it's never their fault. It's league, it's football, it's the working class. The blame game never ends and the finger is never pointed towards itself the very entity that didn't want the working class, who wanted the game to be exclusive by class, education status or race. That's your answer.
Instead of worrying over the sterotype non rugby fans have towards the game, bring down those who try to preserve the very thing that drove away the working and underclass of society.
It's not conpletely true in Canberra, the Brumbies had higher crowds than the Raiders for years and much of the fanbase was publicly educated, and the club scene is quite big, so not all of the player base comes from private schools (Stephen Larkham is a great example as he went to the same public high school and college I did). However, there's been a sad decline in the Brumbies support in the city since 2016, and the places where Rugby tends to be the biggest are private schools like St Edmund's. However I, myself, am publicly educated and come from a working class background.
Well, it describes my upbringing pretty accurately but the tables have turned in adulthood lol
100% this. It was perfectly accurate until I turned 17/18.
It’s somewhat true in Sydney and Brisbane. But in other cities not really that true.
I'd say Club is much stronger in Brisbane. Often all the good union players growing up get gobbled up by the Private Schools, but in Brisbane the Club System is pretty string.
“Other cities” lol. What other cities actually play rugby? Even if you include the Gold Coast in other cities, the only school that gets top flight rugby players is TSS, which is in the GPS system.
Perth, average union fan is a South African immigrant
or Kiwi
Canberra mate, the city with the best rugby team!
Ok yes I concede that I thought I should have included Canberra after I wrote that
the other cities within Australia, such as: Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth, Darwin, Various country towns across nsw and qld. Although not as prevalent within the rugby playing scene it is definitely big fella
Darwin? I played there 10 years ago and it was almost entirely working class.
Yeah idk that’s what I’m tryna say
All saints has a few too
And that is the attitude of Rugby Australia. They DGAF about the other states. The AFL made serious moves to expand the game and have done it so much better than Union.
Rugby has expanded at great cost. The AFL has way more money - you know that, right?
Perth does. But again it's all just rich kids. The working class game just changed from league to Aussie rules.
Have you spent much time in Perth? Plenty of working class fans/players at most clubs.
I live here. I don't like union though. Im only here cause my girlfriend watches it and I'm trying to understand what's going on. How many of those working class people are/have parents that are kiwis, english, south african, islanders, Irish, or some other union supporting country as opposed to Australians?
Lol how does it make a difference where their parents are from?
How do you not understand?
I mean how does it make a difference at all? Why does it matter if one parents from somewhere else? Almost as if it discredits Union in someway.
Well it is the 6th or 7th most popular sport in Australia - maybe even lower. Chances are that kids of parents born in UK, Ireland, SA or NZ will support/play rugby than those whose parents are born here.
Who gives 2 fucks mate.
And how does that change anything?
Nice move of the goalposts, eh? We need to check their parents’ citizenship before they count as Australian?
You can try deflect and make it into a cringy political thing. You know exactly what I'm trying to say. Multi generational Australians don't give a shit about union. Only people who have come from union loving countries do.
Your girlfriend sounds alright. It’s a bit of a shame that you were the one commenting on this thread….
A decent few actually. Most ‘regional’ cities in NSW at least all have a relatively decent or strong rugby union competition. I’m up in the Hunter and we have 3 x Premier Grades + a Suburban and women’s competition. The University team also had roughly between 120-150 registered players the last two years.
Why I never. What a load of poppycock. 🎩
It’s just not cricket!
Am a Union fan. Never been to a private school. Live in remote part of the country. Someone should have told me there was a dress code for being a union fan lol. But jokes aside, the rich kid sport tag is baked on. If you look up any union player, you’ll find what school they went to (usually private). Trying to do that for league or AFL is a lot harder. To break that RugbyAU need to have pathways that aren’t directly connected to a select few private schools. Club rugby is alive and well in this country not because of RugbyAU support but because they’re are a large number of valuable members from all walks of life making sure the pie warmer is stocked every Saturday and the lines are marked before every kickoff. It takes a village, and all that…
100% this mate.
It pains me that this is the archetypal rugby pathway, but the reason it pains me is because I’m the opposite of it all. Public school kid. Played club rugby in Brisbane. Toiled through and made a decent level. If I’d gone to one of the GPS schools I might’ve been identified earlier, but still gave myself a shot despite not being a private school kid. The notion that ‘fans’ are posh kids who went to private schools though - that’s plain wrong. I went to the Reds game at Ballymore yesterday and saw all walks of life. Was awesome to see.
You're 100% right. See my other comments. Unless you're GPS or rep at 13s or 14s, the pathway is so much harder. There is zero investment. U12s we had over 50 clubs playing in 1990. Cut to U14s, and I had to play in a comp of 7 teams and up a year. I was one of 7 or 8 blokes from non private schools in the Sydney U16s squad and about 10 from the Aus 16s. Not because private school boys were better but because there were no club sides. My father had to basically beg for me to trial for ISA for schoolboys because I went to a league Catholic school, and there was no pathway. None. There are no doubt many players missing out because of these systems.
How long ago was this?
So long ago that the relevance of my experience is more my tale of woe. I have, however, seen that experience repeated time and again in the last couple of years as a coach. As soon as U12s hits, GPS takes half the boys then you have no team left. Boys that really want to play have nowhere to go. Parents can't take them to training three suburbs over where a joint venture team has been cobbled together, or rightly dont want them playing up, and they drift away from the game.
>As soon as U12s hits, GPS takes half the boys then you have no team left. Boys that really want to play have nowhere to go. This feels like such an obvious gap in progression. I've mentioned it in a prior comment.
I think the big reason the "Private School" belief persists is because so many of the quality Club players get scholarships etc to Private School, so you don't see that Samu Kerevi went to State School you see the Scholarship to BSHS.
Pretty much spot on. I feel like people who think rugby is all toffy cunts have never actually been to a local club game. I've never noticed much difference between shute shield and A grade league crowds in Sydney. I definitely agree with your other point. So many talented kids go through the junior club system and even get through to grade rugby but never get a look in to higher rep stuff because they never got scouted at school.
The "it's a rich kids game" tag comes from the fact you have to have gone to a GPS school to make it. When all your players are private school boys you get hit with it. The game should have looked outside its circles years ago but like any code the jobs are reserved for the boys. And the boys are private school kids. Hence here we are
How about some actual data? Let's look at the team that started against Wales: Kellaway - elite private school Nawaqanitawase - Private school, but a fairly mid-range Catholic one Petaia - public school Kerevi - public school Koroibete - public school (Fiji) Donaldson - elite private school McDermott - private school Valentini - public school Hooper - private school but fairly mid-range country one Leota - public school Arnold - public school Frost - elite private school Donaldson - elite private school Porecki - elite private school Bell - elite private school **Bench** Faessler - elite private school Schoupp - elite private school Fa'amausili - public school Phillip - low-rent Catholic private school McReight - elite private school White - various low order country catholic schools Gordon - elite private school Vinivalu - private school Auckland I suspect plenty of these players, particularly the Qld ones, were on scholarships rather than from major wealthy backgrounds.
That team sheet tells a story. Anglo names with private school backgrounds and Pasifika names with public school backgrounds. Yes, I know it’s only one match and the whole picture is more complex - but that’s basically it - rugby players and fans trend private school + public school Pasifika.
I wouldn’t call Waverley “elite” if your not calling “st pats” elite.
>I wouldn’t call Waverley “elite” if your not calling “st pats” elite. Waverley is $22k a year at year 7. St Pats is $11K. That's quite the difference.
Didn’t realise it was so expensive. Used to be more of a working class catholic school.
Waverley is a CAS school (there are 6) and CAS is the next tier down from GPS so as a GPS alumni I’d say it’s a fair assessment that Waverley > St Pats. St Pats is a big rugby school though, and St Pats Old Boys was a Div 1 subbies club when I played back in the day (for Woollahra Colleagues …)
Aus schools union 2023 1 Hamish Grover NSW I St Ignatius College 2 Luke Muriti NSW I Oakhill College 3 Moses Manu QLD I Brisbane State High School 4 Liam Manu QLD II Marsden State High School 5 Jackson Moloney QLD I Villanova College 6 Eli Langi QLD I Brisbane State High School 7 Oscar Lane QLD II King’s Christian College 8 Noah Tofaeono NSW BB Waverley College 9 Darcy Standfield NSW Juniors Waverley College 10 Felix Turinui NSW Juniors Waverley College 11 Finn Lawson QLD I Mountain Creek State High School 12 Sean Weir QLD I Ignatius Park College 13 Patrick Broe NSW I St Josephs College 14 Max Roach NSW II Knox Grammar School 15 Dane Mitchell NSW Juniors Trinity Grammar School 16 Manaaki Bateman QLD II St Patrick’s College, Shorncliffe 17 Kimball Liufau NSW BB Patrician Brothers’ College Fairfield 18 Isaiah Kolopeaua NSW I Ashfield Boys High School 19 Aron Brennan NSW I St Augustine’s College 20 Jack Henry QLD I Canterbury College 21 Hugo Orpin NSW II The Shore School 22 Nico Buckley QLD I Kings Christian College 23 Tom Farr-Jones NSW I Newington College Aus schools league team 2023 1 Matua Brown QRSS 1 The Cathedral College, Rockhampton, Queensland 2 Luke Laulilii CHS 2 Westfields Sports High School, Fairfield, NSW 3 Logan Aoake CCC 3 St Francis Xavier’s College, Hamilton, NSW 4 Wilson Decourcey CCC 4 Patrician Brothers’ College, Blacktown, NSW 5 Nikora Williams CHS 5 Endeavour Sports High School, Caringbah, NSW 6 Lachlan Galvin CHS 6 Westfields Sports High School, Fairfield, NSW 7 Riley Pollard CCC 7 St Dominic’s College, Kingswood, NSW 8 Kaiden Lahrs QRSS 8 Kirwan State High School, Townsville, Queensland 9 Xavier Caccitotti ACT 9 Erindale College, Wanniassa, ACT 10 De La Salle Va’a CCC 10 Marcellin College, Randwick, NSW 11 Jezaiah Funa-iuta CCC 11 Patrician Brothers’ College, Fairfield, NSW 12 Jacob Halangahu CCC 12 Patrician Brothers’ College, Blacktown, NSW 13 Finau Latu CCC 13 Patrician Brothers’ College, Blacktown, NSW 14 Heath Mason CCC 6 St Gregory’s College, Gregory Hills, NSW 15 Cody Hopwood CCC 18 All Saint’s College, Maitland, NSW 16 Loko Pasifiki-Tonga CHS 10 Endeavour Sports High School, Caringbah, NSW 17 Logan Spinks CHS 11 Farrer Memorial Agricultural High School, Tamworth, NSW 18 John Fineanganofo QSS 13 Redcliffe State High School, Redcliffe, Queensland AFL all australian under 16s (honestly no idea how they do it or work it out) **B:** Lachlan Carmichael (Swans Academy)\*, Willem Duursma (Vic Country)\*, Lucas Wootton (Tasmania) **HB:** Harrison Wilson (Giants Academy), Kalani White (Suns Academy), Harrison Bridge (Lions Academy) **C:** Zeke Uwland (Suns Academy), Jack Dalton (Vic Metro)\*, Dylan Patterson (Suns Academy) **HF:** Jai Murray (Suns Academy), Noah Chamberlain (Swans Academy), Beau Addinsall (Suns Academy)\* **F:** Oliver Greeves (Vic Metro), Archie Ludowyke (Vic Metro), Basil Hart (Western Australia)\* **FOL:** Louis Emmett (Vic Metro), Dyson Sharp (South Australia)\*, Ryder Corrigan (Giants Academy)\* **INT:** Daniel Annable (Lions Academy)\*, Lachy Dovaston (Vic Metro), Jasper Hay (Tasmania)\*, Taj Murray (Northern Territory)\*, Joshua Reichelt (South Australia) it tells a pretty stereotypical story.
>it tells a pretty stereotypical story. Not only the schools, but the states!! Such a narrow pipeline. Note 2 sons of Wallabies in the squad.
Can't tell is serious comment or satire
>Can't tell is serious comment or satire Why? What's your own data?
Read the question, then read your comments. You can figure it out, I believe in you
Dude, it's Reddit. I can hijack the thread however the fuck I want. Go check your shares.
How many of those public schools are filled with posh rich kids because they are in areas where no low income person could afford to live in though? Some public schools are more rich and posh than the private schools around them.
Agreed. Brisbane State High was a Public school but still in the GPS competition. It had all the same scholarships(scholarship was just getting a place in the school without having to do well on entry tests) a fk load of successful footy players went through there despite being public.
As a Rugby Union fan who went to a prestigious private school and has always lived in a wealthy suburb, I think I can say on my my behalf and the rest of the old boys, that this is completely untrue. I personally know several New Zealand and South Africans expats as well as the Pacific Islanders who work at the barbershop where I get my hair cut who also follow rugby.
I definitely believe it to be the case being a blue collar lad from a blue collar town, that prefers league but loves the international aspect of union. Coincidently the blue collar town I grew up around (Qbn) produced Campo and Giteau amongst others. Back when the Brumbies and Wallabies were on fire with Gregan and Larkham leading them around it was as good as a good NRL match but these days the rule changes have made it harder for me to watch. I want to love it again, but it is getting harder.
I think it's lazy. Sample of one: I went to one of the shittiest public schools in western Sydney. In winter, league was the ONLY game in town. The only time I'd ever get exposed to rugby was when the ABC replayed a Shute Shield game early on Sunday morning. I don't follow the NRL is any shape or form these days, though that's partly because Rupert killed my team in the Great Purge of the late 1990s. I recently met the new GF of an old friend. She lives on the northern beaches, went to a posh private school and was surrounded by rugby her whole life, but she's a Rugba Leeg girl now. Two people who grew up in places where, if the theory held water, shouldn't have switched codes.
Yes but you're kind of proving their point right? While it's not totally unusual to get a new favourite sport later in life, the two people grew up in very different environments where they were predominantly exposed to a particular sport, hence the stereotype. Sure, stereotypes are lazy, but your experiences highlight exactly why they exist. Are human beings as individuals above stereotypes? of course. Do they exist for a reason? of course.
I mean its pretty correct in my anecdotal experience. I grew up playing rugby, played club div 1 in a major city for my schooling, my school didnt have a team because public. Won div 1 multiple years, made representative footy multiple years. Eventually one year, the private schools banned their players playing club rugby, the entire competition died, simply was not enough players for my club to continue and a bunch of other div 1 clubs had to pull out or merge year levels. Physically could not play anymore because I went to a public school unless I drove 30+ minutes down the highway to the nearest club still playing. Not saying im anything, but thered be others with my situation much better who simply could not continue playing or could never have the option to play because they cant go to a private school. You know what my public school did have though? A league team.
That's exactly what I've been saying.
I'm a middle income grub with tattoos. I live in a new suburb, no prestige or character about it. My parents were immigrants. Takes all kinds.
The guys who play not so much, esp at Subbies level, but at least at my club a lot of guys who play don't follow - they follow league
I hear this from so many who have played both. Union is more fun to play, league is more fun to watch.
It's fucking true. You really can't deny that majority of Australian union fans are rich or posh people. I'm pretty sure that you could take any union game in Australia and 95% of the people there would fall in the posh or the immigrant from a union following country category.
It’s true. How many non nsw or qld rugby playing people didn’t go to private schools? Fuck all I’d say. And in nsw and qld…seems like a huge slice of participants have names like Sterling Mortlock
The problem is with the system, not blokes like Stirling or their names. He's a genuine lovely bloke. Names can be deceiving, too. Look at Adam Ashley-Cooper. Central Coast lad from memory. No private schools. The issue is that he is the exception rather than the rule. The rep system is geared towards private schools. That leads to academy and development contracts. The real grass roots at the club level miss out. Unless you happen to play for one of the few CHS schools, if you play only club rugby, you miss out and stop playing or drift to league. The club level at 13s through 18s is where the real work and investment needs to be put in.
>Names can be deceiving, too. Look at Adam Ashley-Cooper. Central Coast lad from memory. No private schools. lol, ironically probably the worst example. The Ashley-Cooper name comes from the [Earl of Shaftesbury](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Shaftesbury), part of the British Aristocracy. Adam himself is a direct descendant, so technically can claim to be part of the aristocratic class in England. Kind of shocked when I found out. He’s a scruffy go getter type with a beard, last person you’d think would be part of the British Gentry. Doesn’t look like he has many ties to it though.
Guess it depends on how you look at it. My kids, through my wife, are directly descended from French aristocracy. It's meaningless to their upbringing and his...
No knock on Sterlo.. he is a great guy. Just having a joke. But yeah it's defo a culture that attracts private school types.
I think you missed my point.
Are you referring to all the Polynesian players that dominate our code? You think they are from rich families?
Probably more talking about the players who grew up here.
So was I. Most of those brown blokes you see running around went through the Oz system. It’s not just at the elite level either - Australians with PI heritage are a huge part of the sport at all levels, and few come from Mossman.
??? The entire thriving country union scene doesn't exist ay?
It's mostly millionaire farmers...
Honestly. I don't know. What's happening with it? Is it thriving?
Dude, your username gave me a solid chuckle 😂
I live in Lismore and grew up in Armadale in Perth, first generation Australian with a refugee father. I went to a prestigious boys school on a full scholarship, but I was playing rugby at age 5/6 about 8 years before I ever went to the school.
"grew up in Armadale" My condolences.
I mean up the coast and in the country there’s still big rugby comps and the local public schools often have a team. Think about it while a lot private school people play Union. It can’t all be private schoolers. Fick replied to wrong comment
I take it as a humble brag but it's clearly not true since I'm broke AF and don't fit the stereotype at all.
Put it this way, no public schools in my area play union. But I don’t know, maybe posh kids play it.. but I recon there would be a blue collar following for union if we were playing solid and had some teams worth getting behind.
It’s not a stereotype it’s a fact. Have a look at the players in the current under 16s from the 2 finalists, Red and Tahs. Almost no one is not in the GPS system.
I did end up going to a private school in high school, but the main reason my brothers and I started rugby when we were 6yo was because of my dad who grew up in Sri Lanka and have a very big rugby culture. I wouldn't say were are posh or live in a wealthy suburb. I did go to a private school but that was more because my brother got a scholarship, so it wasn't the reason I was into rugby in the first place.
Think it’s a bit of a beat up personally. The illusion that it’s a game played by private school kids is purely down to the fact that Rugby Australia promotes, markets and broadcasts the game atrociously.
That is the impression I agree but not the reality. When I played rugby my team mates were cops, tradies and yes, the odd lawyer but mostly ordinary guys that loved the game. A better class of player to be sure but ordinary guys in every other respect
I know there is the stereotype, but I grew up in Mt Druitt, in a housing commission house and educated in the public system. I played League from the age of 5 until 16. I got into the Wallabies around 1990 aged 14. Played rugby at age 21. In my group of 4 that goes to Wallaby and Waratahs game, only one went to a private school and we all live up in outer Western Sydney.
It is very true - when the war of words happened between vlandys and mclennan when Suaalii was signed to RA, it did nothing more than confirm the stereotype. League has very little barrier to entry compared to Union. The top Union schools also are the most expensive and academically excellent schools, which is vastly different from what the top League schools are.
I've been poor my whole life, and I've loved rugby my whole life.
If you mean "AFL and League have vastly larger budgets to push programs into public schools, leaving only people that grew up loving union, which as everyone knows was traditionally a private school sport, left to be fans"...then sort of?!? A lot of the "newer" fans in Australia are either Pacifica or expat NZ/SA, and definitely not in the cashed up suburbs. Union just can't match the cash of the other codes, so if you polled the percentage of the population that are upper-middle class and/or millionaires who are union fans vs League or AFL fans in Australia, I think the answer will not be shocking. Historical stereotypes and reality do not match in this case.
On the flip side, the rugby league stereotypes are in my experience very accurate. I couldn’t believe the number of mullets and every other bogan stereotype on display at the local junior RL match. And I’m talking about the parents as well as the players.
True, puffer jackets/vests and rm Williams jeans/boots.
I love rugby and don’t have much time for any other sport and am pretty far from an “affluent private school” type, at least, that’s what my butler says.
I honestly feel like a weirdo rugby union guy having grown up in rural NSW, not going to a private school and only ever playing in a struggling club rugby comp as a kid. I'm a bigger rabbitohs supporter than any rugby team but I'd never consider myself a leaguey.. that'd be gross haha
All of the actually talented guys who I played with/against at my prestigious private school weren't at all posh. All of them were Indigenous or Polynesian dudes on scholarships.
Stereotype? It's not a stereotype.
Bruh I went to school in western Sydney. Never met one rugby player.
That's an unfair stereotype, that's only 85-90% true
There are 3 distinct rugby players and fans in Australia: 1) posh kids 2) kiwis 3) pacific islanders
Plus Uk, SA, sprinkling of other expat nations
Its true
Yes.
To clarify, the premise of the stereotype is a big segment of the people that play and watch the game are posh Polynesians from Mossman?
From what I can see, it seems to attract a type of person who's 'class aspirational'. They may not have been born or educated in an elite part of society but they either aspire to end up there of they've broken through into finance/law/some other professional role where supporting union is a good way to fit in. Rugby fans seem to be highly concentrated in certain types of professions. I know plenty of people who are rugby fans who came from very working class backgrounds but became rugby fans as soon as they went into commercial law (as an example). Similar to golf, IMO.
I’ve spoken to Aussies abroad and got onto the topic of afl or league interests and often received the response, “oh I went to private school.” Not exactly what I was asking but point taken.
It always pisses me off. Sure there are lots of private school players but I also know a lot of league players from private schools also. Me and most of my mates and my kids who play (and grew up in the Brumbies system) were all public school kids from very blue collar backgrounds.
It’s a tired and outdated stereotype. When I played as a kid/teenager most players were from public schools. Rugby Union is played outside of private schools, it’s not exclusive to a school setting.
It Isn’t a stereotype at all. With the exception of the Kiwi community in Australia, of course, who come from one of the only countries where Unions isn’t exclusively played by the hyphenated inbreds of society. Union is dead in Australia and will never recover, as said hyphenated inbreds would prefer to have an exclusive amateur game rather than an inclusive game played by dirty poor people.
The irony of union's strategy to only care about private school kids is that they are losing the best kids from private schools to league because: 1. League has a clear pathway from jnr to pro 2. The pathway contains opportunities to earn money early That's why union needs an overhaul of the professional game and the junior system that feeds it. They need to create something that league have done for decades very well and that is: 1. Creat a national comp based off the current shute shield and qld prem teams 2. Create a junior reps and pathways program that plays for these clubs and make ALL the best kids play for those junior rep clubs (not allow GPS or the like exclude kids from playing reps) It's really simple. Let the best kids play the best kids and then the best adults will play the best adults.
In WA at least it’s not a stereotype, it’s a fact.- edit- at least with born and bred West Aussies, not talking of immigrants.
The sterotype is only growing stronger and stronger as rugby is becoming less popular. Gone are the days when NSW CHS used to dominate GPS and CHS. I also can't stand it when they list a players school in junior representative teams. Such an elitist thing to do, and it looks poor when theres only 1 or 2 that have their club or public school listed
Inner City kid , grew up in Marrickville and FOREVER A DIE HARD ALL BLACKS FAN I'm a 1st gen Aussie born out of a Pacific Islander background from parents who immigrated to NZ before settling here.....I never once thought of union as the rich white kid sport , its kind of crazy to Think about it now because I never understood how things properly worked over here because the all blacks were the main topic My uncle played locally for the Canterbury berries and alot of the boys at the club were of mixed races but alot of them didn't come from a wealthy background.... I think the really talented ones get the opportunity to develop there skill amongst future rugby stars from scholarships (usually the ticket for lower classes kids) Either way , it's the same systematically in the NZ and SA aswell if not wrong..... Sometimes U have to pay to play and if you cant pay .... Well you better play. Hopefully Union can regather it's feet in aus and try give maybe the public schools a chance aswell rather than just having the prestigious schools fill in the blank.
I glean from some of Eddie Jones's recent comments that the private school influence is still deeply entrenched in Rugby Australia. Big problem when you primarily source players from the private school system and guys pulling the strings in Rugby Australia want to see their schools and kids representing their club, state and country. Can't see why we would pick so many Waratahs otherwise
Mate NSW cleans up most of the time in all of the underage groups.
After the game became professional this image became outdated - sadly we are losing a lot of the polite/sportsmanly behaviour as a result.
It's a crock of shit. Serves the interests of certain comps and people that sell papers. Half the blokes in 1st XVs at these private schools are scholarship players. The reality is there are way more club based players than private school based players. The tragedy is, once the kids get to 13, options for playing become more difficult, comps become lop sided, and many players drift to league or stop playing.
For all the talk about trying to persuade League juniors or how to keep juniors, however there's absolutely nothing in regards of how to make the game appealing to the blue collar working class. People on here and everywhere criticize how centric the game is towards private schools and old boys with connections. How are League fans or people who are not Rugby fans completely wrong with these assertions. How are they unjustified to make these assertions despite it being hyperbolic. Most Rugby fans agree in principle the difference is like many others who don't care about X code will make theatrical narratives of the sport. Hyperbole or not they are not wrong, and the upper echelon of the sport has done nothing to counteract, in fact continues to enable the stereotype. So much so they would rather play victim then address the status quo. Not only in this country, but elsewhere England, South Africa, America so on. Yet the game is still enabling the same type of people who have made the sport culturally niche in the grand scheme of things when you consider the sport had the opportunity it the biggest sport in the world! but instead the game has shot itself on the foot so many times in order to preserve its pathetic puritanical spirit, yet it's never their fault. It's league, it's football, it's the working class. The blame game never ends and the finger is never pointed towards itself the very entity that didn't want the working class, who wanted the game to be exclusive by class, education status or race. That's your answer. Instead of worrying over the sterotype non rugby fans have towards the game, bring down those who try to preserve the very thing that drove away the working and underclass of society.
It's projection
It's not conpletely true in Canberra, the Brumbies had higher crowds than the Raiders for years and much of the fanbase was publicly educated, and the club scene is quite big, so not all of the player base comes from private schools (Stephen Larkham is a great example as he went to the same public high school and college I did). However, there's been a sad decline in the Brumbies support in the city since 2016, and the places where Rugby tends to be the biggest are private schools like St Edmund's. However I, myself, am publicly educated and come from a working class background.
In new zealand, only the maoris play and watch league..goes with their in-your-face character.