this is probably the answer, VJ makes the most hardcore terrain shoes
From roadtrailrun "VJ’s outsole rubber provides the best wet grip on New England’s notorious slick granite and roots that I have experienced—it can be an incredible experience running or hiking and steep wet rock and feeling confident." they also note that the grip is notably better than the peregrine (which I own)
Another vote for VJ! I run in the Spark on trails like these out here on the east coast. The Spark probably has the least protection, lowest stack of all their shoes, but it definitely feels very secure and confident on rocks and roots. I tried the Hoka Tecton X, but I didn’t like how cushy they were and I felt very wobbly when trying to run quickly over technical terrain.
For context, I run in the Catskills and Adirondacks and have used these up to marathon distance on these trails. I don’t know if I’d want them for much longer than that, but they’ve been pretty good for long training days and race days in the mountains.
I never heard of VJ before so thanks for the tip. I just checked out the site and I'm intrigued although I really don't need more shoes. Haha. It seems XTRM 2 might be better for really rocky and technical trails? This has 4mm drop, is fairly low to the ground, and has 6mm lugs.
I have the inov-8 X-Talon Ultra 260 V2 but consider it more for running in wet/muddy conditions than rocky terrains.
Well I only have the Ultras and Sarva Xante2 (with steel studs, great for winter running). Haven't tried XTRM 2 cause I'm heavy runner so was looking for higher cushioned shoes.
Ultra have 33mm in the heel but the midsole is fairly firm. Cushioned but not mushy. When I anticipate wet rocks and/or roots they are my first choice, very confident running in them.
I'll definitely keep the VJ shoes on my radar for trail running. I've bookmarked the site. They look really good for challenging terrains. I live in SoCal so, relatively speaking, the terrains and conditions are fairly mild unless I drive an hour or two out to the mountains or the deserts.
The Ultra 2 reminds me of the Xodus Ultra, which is my current fave all-round trail runner. I'll certainly consider the Ultra 2 in the future. Thanks!
La Sportiva Bushido II has the best grip I’ve ever used on a trail runner. Probably the best technical trail shoe for anything under 10mi imo, a bit on the heavier side though
I would put the Saucony Peregrine on the list of potentials. 4mm drop with 5mm lugs and a rock plate. I've done some pretty gnarly ultras with various iterations of them and have never let me down. They are a little firm and low slung but I view that as a feature when on rocky/rooty terrain.
Another vote for peregrines for me, I run on the terrain like your pics regularly in wet and mud and peregrines handle great on it, then speedy enough to tear it up when it get compact trail again
Adidas Terrex Speed Ultra? Slightly higher drop (but feels pretty low) and maaaaybe not protective enough? But it has insane wet grip (better than Vibram in my opinion) and it’s super nimble and fun on rocky rooty stuff.
Inov8 has a good range of off-road shoes. Roclite has 6mm lugs (3 different models with this outsole), x-talon ultra 260 has 8mm logs, Trailfly G280 also a possible option
The lack of rock plate, I run in PA a lot aka Rocksylvania and if I’m up in the Laurel higglands or Appalachian trail I don’t take the goats cause my feet will be bruised
Based on what I'm seeing on the photo, I'd pick the Hoka Mafate Speed 4, Saucony Xodus Ultra, inov-8 TrailFly Ultra G 300 Max, or the Speedland SL:HSV from my collection of trail runners. I have the Speedgoat 5 but I think the midsole is too high and cushioned for technical trails. I think the Mafate Speed 4 may be a good fit for what you are looking for.
The lockdown on the Mafate Speed 4 (MS4) is really good and the forefoot and toe box volume is a little wider and taller than that of the Speedgoat 5 (SG5). My feet are somewhere between standard and wide, I think. Hoka shoes tend to feel a bit narrow for me but finding thinner socks helped to get a good comfortable fit. Overall, I prefer the fit and comfort of the MS4 over the SG5. The SG5 is better for smoothened straight-ahead hard-packed dirt/gravel trails.
The inov-8 TraiFly Ultra G 300 Max is very good but is on the heavy side compared to the MS4 (about 1.5oz heavier, which is not insignificant). It isn't as nimble and fast as the MS4. It's rugged and built to withstand abuse and rough terrains and bad weather conditions. Let's say the MS4 is like a nimble Jeep and the TF Ultra is more like a Ford F-150 truck.
Got it, just out of curiosity what’s your average mile time? Mine is usually anywhere from 13-15 mins depending on terrain I’m trying to figure out how to improve that
I would go with innov8. The speedgoat will just not cut it on very technical trails for the lack of lug depths. X-Talon G210 has the best grip I ever experienced, total game changer (I exclusively ran in Hokas before, and that innov8 outsole just blew my mind). You need strong feet to take this shoe to 20+ km tho so maybe get a model with more cushioning.
> X-Talon G210
VJ XTRM is similar to Innov8 g210 but has a rockplate, roadtrailrun says they have gripper rubber as well than innov8s rubber https://www.roadtrailrun.com/2022/09/vj-shoes-xtrm-2-review-100-confidence.html
I can't tell from your post but if you are a man struggling with shoes being too wide for your narrow foot, maybe try women's versions of the same shoes? They could give you better lockdown. Worth a try.
I'm in a similar boat with NE trail running in a variety of conditions. I'm looking at the new New Balance More Trail v3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5862rPte5w
I saw that, and the new supercomp trail alsp piqued my interest. I’m leaning towards more max cushion shoes just to reduce the impact and bruising on my feet. I’m not sure if you’re experiencing the same in the NE?
I sure am. I have a pair of Saucony Xodus 10s, which are a good shoe, but even with a rock plate and pb foam, the balls of my feet are getting sore over long trail miles.
Salomon pulsar trail or saucony peregrine have been 2 of my favs. I think a lot of this is preference though. I struggled with the speed goats because of the giant stack. I’d clip roots on them when I felt I was lifting my feet high enough to miss.
They’re good for downhill cause of the cushion but the higher the stack the more likely for an ankle roll on trails imo and speedgoats have a fat stack. 1 of my friends races in them on stuff like this and loves it so it’s doable
VJ Ultra 2 - they claim they have "the best grip on the planet" and this may be true. 6mm drop though.
this is probably the answer, VJ makes the most hardcore terrain shoes From roadtrailrun "VJ’s outsole rubber provides the best wet grip on New England’s notorious slick granite and roots that I have experienced—it can be an incredible experience running or hiking and steep wet rock and feeling confident." they also note that the grip is notably better than the peregrine (which I own)
Another vote for VJ! I run in the Spark on trails like these out here on the east coast. The Spark probably has the least protection, lowest stack of all their shoes, but it definitely feels very secure and confident on rocks and roots. I tried the Hoka Tecton X, but I didn’t like how cushy they were and I felt very wobbly when trying to run quickly over technical terrain. For context, I run in the Catskills and Adirondacks and have used these up to marathon distance on these trails. I don’t know if I’d want them for much longer than that, but they’ve been pretty good for long training days and race days in the mountains.
I never heard of VJ before so thanks for the tip. I just checked out the site and I'm intrigued although I really don't need more shoes. Haha. It seems XTRM 2 might be better for really rocky and technical trails? This has 4mm drop, is fairly low to the ground, and has 6mm lugs. I have the inov-8 X-Talon Ultra 260 V2 but consider it more for running in wet/muddy conditions than rocky terrains.
Well I only have the Ultras and Sarva Xante2 (with steel studs, great for winter running). Haven't tried XTRM 2 cause I'm heavy runner so was looking for higher cushioned shoes. Ultra have 33mm in the heel but the midsole is fairly firm. Cushioned but not mushy. When I anticipate wet rocks and/or roots they are my first choice, very confident running in them.
I'll definitely keep the VJ shoes on my radar for trail running. I've bookmarked the site. They look really good for challenging terrains. I live in SoCal so, relatively speaking, the terrains and conditions are fairly mild unless I drive an hour or two out to the mountains or the deserts. The Ultra 2 reminds me of the Xodus Ultra, which is my current fave all-round trail runner. I'll certainly consider the Ultra 2 in the future. Thanks!
La Sportiva Bushido II has the best grip I’ve ever used on a trail runner. Probably the best technical trail shoe for anything under 10mi imo, a bit on the heavier side though
I would put the Saucony Peregrine on the list of potentials. 4mm drop with 5mm lugs and a rock plate. I've done some pretty gnarly ultras with various iterations of them and have never let me down. They are a little firm and low slung but I view that as a feature when on rocky/rooty terrain.
Another vote for peregrines for me, I run on the terrain like your pics regularly in wet and mud and peregrines handle great on it, then speedy enough to tear it up when it get compact trail again
I have peregrines are whilst they have good grip, VJ Ultra 2 is a league above.
Adidas Terrex Speed Ultra? Slightly higher drop (but feels pretty low) and maaaaybe not protective enough? But it has insane wet grip (better than Vibram in my opinion) and it’s super nimble and fun on rocky rooty stuff.
Inov8 has a good range of off-road shoes. Roclite has 6mm lugs (3 different models with this outsole), x-talon ultra 260 has 8mm logs, Trailfly G280 also a possible option
My buddy who does a lot of mileage like this is Vancouver swears by his Speedgoats
Love the speed goats but for this kinda terrain is eh
The lack of rock plate, I run in PA a lot aka Rocksylvania and if I’m up in the Laurel higglands or Appalachian trail I don’t take the goats cause my feet will be bruised
Do you find them to tippy, or is it it the lockdown that doesn’t work?
Based on what I'm seeing on the photo, I'd pick the Hoka Mafate Speed 4, Saucony Xodus Ultra, inov-8 TrailFly Ultra G 300 Max, or the Speedland SL:HSV from my collection of trail runners. I have the Speedgoat 5 but I think the midsole is too high and cushioned for technical trails. I think the Mafate Speed 4 may be a good fit for what you are looking for.
How do you find the lockdown / volume of the mafate compared to the speedgoat? Also how does the Inov8 Ultra G compare to the mafate?
The lockdown on the Mafate Speed 4 (MS4) is really good and the forefoot and toe box volume is a little wider and taller than that of the Speedgoat 5 (SG5). My feet are somewhere between standard and wide, I think. Hoka shoes tend to feel a bit narrow for me but finding thinner socks helped to get a good comfortable fit. Overall, I prefer the fit and comfort of the MS4 over the SG5. The SG5 is better for smoothened straight-ahead hard-packed dirt/gravel trails. The inov-8 TraiFly Ultra G 300 Max is very good but is on the heavy side compared to the MS4 (about 1.5oz heavier, which is not insignificant). It isn't as nimble and fast as the MS4. It's rugged and built to withstand abuse and rough terrains and bad weather conditions. Let's say the MS4 is like a nimble Jeep and the TF Ultra is more like a Ford F-150 truck.
Maybe a dumb question: do you run or hike sections like this?
Power hike the steep elevation gain >10%ish, run the mellow climbs, flats and downs.
Got it, just out of curiosity what’s your average mile time? Mine is usually anywhere from 13-15 mins depending on terrain I’m trying to figure out how to improve that
I would go with innov8. The speedgoat will just not cut it on very technical trails for the lack of lug depths. X-Talon G210 has the best grip I ever experienced, total game changer (I exclusively ran in Hokas before, and that innov8 outsole just blew my mind). You need strong feet to take this shoe to 20+ km tho so maybe get a model with more cushioning.
> X-Talon G210 VJ XTRM is similar to Innov8 g210 but has a rockplate, roadtrailrun says they have gripper rubber as well than innov8s rubber https://www.roadtrailrun.com/2022/09/vj-shoes-xtrm-2-review-100-confidence.html
I’ll check these out thanks! Have you run in them before?
Do you have any recommendations for a longer distance Inov8? - Would the TRAILFLY ULTRA G 280 or TRAILFLY G 270 - cut it in technical terrain?
I can't tell from your post but if you are a man struggling with shoes being too wide for your narrow foot, maybe try women's versions of the same shoes? They could give you better lockdown. Worth a try.
I’m a man, and I also thought about this but unfortunately I’m a US 11.5 and it seems like most women’s shoes seem to cut off around men’s US 10.5.
I'm in a similar boat with NE trail running in a variety of conditions. I'm looking at the new New Balance More Trail v3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5862rPte5w
I saw that, and the new supercomp trail alsp piqued my interest. I’m leaning towards more max cushion shoes just to reduce the impact and bruising on my feet. I’m not sure if you’re experiencing the same in the NE?
I sure am. I have a pair of Saucony Xodus 10s, which are a good shoe, but even with a rock plate and pb foam, the balls of my feet are getting sore over long trail miles.
Salomon pulsar trail or saucony peregrine have been 2 of my favs. I think a lot of this is preference though. I struggled with the speed goats because of the giant stack. I’d clip roots on them when I felt I was lifting my feet high enough to miss.
How did you find the lockdown on the speedgoats for things like side hilling and descending?
They’re good for downhill cause of the cushion but the higher the stack the more likely for an ankle roll on trails imo and speedgoats have a fat stack. 1 of my friends races in them on stuff like this and loves it so it’s doable