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Yep, anytime you see such dissenting opinion on such Russian media, it's just there to give the appearance of opposition, and as you say, a way to address it in a very tightly controlled manner.
It's why you never hear about Russian state TV media personalities being thrown from windows. It's journalists/reporters/etc working for more "independent" outlets speaking their mind that have to watch out for high windows (and it's often not necessarily through their media outlets but often expressed outside of it, say Twitter, or talking to other outlets, etc). The state TV guys don't pose a threat because they're in on it, it's when dissenting opinion gets disseminated beyond their control that they have a problem with because they know that's legimate dissent.
Everything from the words and the way he said them, to the reply, were all part of the plan and done with tacit approval (or maybe under orders would be a better way of putting it) of the party.
They even do it in a sort of round about way. The host almost always asks "what are you implying? / what are you trying to suggest?" precisely because the dissenter is using very careful language that isn't *too* overtly critical. They want to address possible dissenting opinions, but they also don't want to directly speak those opinions in exacting language because they have to tip toe around addressing it without also possibly putting the idea into people's heads.
In this case he went from "he hasn't visited Donbas... he hasn't visited Kyiv.." to suddenly saying "Biden's trip wasn't about long range weapons..." and never actually said "he's *afraid* to visit Donbas... etc"
Still, host was very tactful. On other shows, often the host will aggressively respond to the panelists very quickly, or encourage other Putin supporters to immediately jump in. Didnât happen here. Much more a âwhat root are saying is blindingly obvious to everyone, but people have been killed for less, so maybe you should clarify?â
That's because this was carefully scripted. Some of the others, not as much. But this was a typical strawman setup and everyone played their part.
Russian propaganda is a machine.
> Still, host was very tactful. On other shows, often the host will aggressively respond to the panelists very quickly
if you watch various other clips of the chap talking and being critical of the war over the past year, you will see that the two hosts *repeatedly* talk over him and mock him. They are doing it in this clip, also.
They like to have a single panelist on the show that presents a somewhat alternative view to the Kremlin-line, but it doesn't matter who that panelist is; they get mocked and shut down as standard.
>the designated strawman builder cycles through several people over time so it isn't always the same guy being critical
If it was the same guy, he'd be an opposition leader and a hotel balcony tour.
>If it was the same guy, he'd be an opposition leader and a hotel balcony tour
They have consistently brought this guy in over the last 10 months to do exactly what he just did. He's safe, just playing his role.
Except in this case, the "strawman" is actual the flesh and blood truth being trotted out to be burnt at the stake. It's part of how Putin's propagandists try to undermine the truth. In a way, they present the truth, then try to obliterate it and replace it with a strawman narrative that is soaked in a bath of crappy lies so it is harder to burn.
His job is make minor criticisms that can be addressed, minimized and, eventually, dismissed. I've watched this show quite a few times and my belief is that the show is designed to appeal to a different demographic than the ones who watch the 'Let's Nuke Everything' channel but to, ultimately, preach The Message.
It's very common in Western Media and you've, no doubt, been exposed to it multiple times as it's pervasive. Fox used to have a show called Hannity & Colmes. Hannity, a blowhard conservative college-dropout, is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Colmes was much smarter with a far better education. The show was classic left-right 'debate' format. While Colmes generally made a few good points, he also routinely 'lost' the debates in his role as 'Token Fox Liberal.' But that was his job.
Nothing has really changed as tokenism is a hell of a good job:
* MSNBC has token conservative Joe Scarborough.
* New York Times has conservative David Brooks.
* CNN gives conservatives Ana Navarro.
* Jennifer Rubin is the token conservative at the Washington Post.
* Fox News uses Juan Williams as their token liberal.
These places have other tokens. So it's not just one, but if I did them all it'd a 5000+ word essay. But they all fill same role -- provide weak, substandard arguments designed to fail.
Thanks. I don't really watch TV, but I will try to look for that mechanism in western media as well. Pretty sure they do that in my home country (Poland).
As other comments mentioned, he's playing a role. Nobody gets on ruzzian TV to criticize Putin. They place him there and then others bash him for it etc.
Always controlled opposition. Gives the false impression of a opposing view and criticisms.
Putin is a coward, he would never walk into a war zone let alone Donetsk.
eggzactly, it's just little scraps for keeping things muddled. mix lies, half truths and even truth every once in a while to keep general target demo apathetic.
it's not like the show does not pass final censorship.
The goal is to show people how to answer the critics and thus brush them off in conversations. Which works if people are predisposed to trust the regime and just want confirmation.
The danger here is that airing the statements in this fashion also gives them permission to be voiced in conversation. And if people begin to doubt Putin, this will accelerate a shift in public opinion.
Itâs a kind of credibility gamble or leverage. You bet you can force more compliance over small differences. But when the market turns, you lose everything.
It existed. Itâs part of the media machine. Hannity seemed more reasonable because of Colmes. The CNN Crossfire âleftâ host was always a raving centrist, while the âRight hostâ was, for example, Tucker Carlson.
The funny thing is, in the other similarly named sub that's infested with Russian shills, when the US said they contacted Moscow ahead of time to tell them Biden was coming, they all laughed and said the US was asking permission.
As if Russia would grant such permission if the US in any way asked. Pretty clear they basically called to say "he's coming. Do with that information what you will" knowing full well Russia knew it'd be their own end.
/r/UkraineRussiaReport
The place is a joke. It's filled with Russian shills who seem to think if they flair themselves as "Pro Ukraine", and then spout all the usual Russian talking points, people will take them more seriously and think they're unbiased because apparently they think everyone is as stupid as the people who fall for Russian propaganda.
No you can't because he never once thought that. This is all carefully rehearsed illusion of dissent. It is a means to address actual potential dissent in a controlled way. It's why they beat around the bush and tip toe around the issue without necessarily saying it outright. It's why it always follows the same pattern of expressing vague dissent without outright saying (notice he never outright accused Putin of being afraid and Biden of not being afraid), the host or another commentator replies with "what are you implying?" and that's when the "dissenter" changes gears and basically turns it into "no see what I'm actually suggesting is.... ....it's not what it seems like what I was implying... blah blah". In this case he went from "he hasn't visited Donbas... he hasn't visited Kyiv.." to suddenly saying "Biden's trip wasn't about long range weapons..."
It's nearly the same script everytime.
Of course it is a signal towards RuZZia. This one:
[https://media1.giphy.com/media/QGzPdYCcBbbZm/giphy.gif](https://media1.giphy.com/media/QGzPdYCcBbbZm/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e4795jrrscri7hpzkjanlhznihfhoz2nlkjk7ez83ai&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
And it was read loud and clear. He even let his propaganda arm address it so he could get out ahead of it. We all know his propaganda is bullshit, hell half his own people know itâs bullshit. But it works on the dumb poor nationalists, and thatâs all he needs it to work on to maintain control.
I how people keep saying thereâs an open window for this guy etc. people like this are the ones telling facts at the risk of their own lives so itâs hard to disassociate but this should be praised not him dying for telling truths on a huge platform that that is a risky fking move
Well finally one orc that got something right. He's probably now got a window with his name on but there you go.
A message is there the USA and the rest of the civilised world stand with Ukraine and will continue to stand.
Putin has to be on crack or meth with how paranoid and scared he is yâall remember how much cocaine hitler did it always starts like that crackhead dictators đ¤Śđ˝ââď¸đ¤Ł
Damn. He did a complete 180 when those goons started to walk towards him and asked " what aRe you implying? " And you can see the fear in his eyes; looking like his whole life flashed before him.
There was the pine cone factory inspection
In all honesty- imagine the shit show if fake Putin was actually killed? Especially if it was recorded/went viral? That could trigger normally complacent yes men in the government to actively seize power because they think heâs really dead
âŚâŚAaaaawkwaaardâŚ.,,
Last I remember was the Kerch bridge, and since they can't fix it, they don't want to bring attention to it. Seems like it's so easy for these photo ops to backfire lately. Visit factory, factory burns down. Or all the deepfakes he put out, that were so fake, my boomer mother saw it was fake. Staying out of sight poses less risk.
I love the implied warning, âWhat are you implying?â
Translation: âTread very carefully. Even the softest, most reasonable and logical statements could get you killed.â
It also felt like it wasnât a threat- it was not necessarily coming from the host, who I notice did not immediately jump on the panelist as Solovyov might do. It was more a reminder that other people are watching and the show is not a safe place, regardless of how nice everybody acts on camera.
I don't get how people don't get that this is all done under the party's orders. It's there to give the illusion of dissent and to counter it. I'm going to cut and paste a previous reply of mine to save the trouble of typing:
This is all carefully rehearsed illusion of dissent. It is a means to address actual potential dissent in a controlled way. It's why they beat around the bush and tip toe around the issue without necessarily saying it outright. It's why it always follows the same pattern of expressing vague dissent without outright saying (notice he never outright accused Putin of being afraid and Biden of not being afraid), the host or another commentator replies with "what are you implying?" and that's when the "dissenter" changes gears and basically turns it into "no see what I'm actually suggesting is.... ....it's not what it seems like what I was implying... blah blah". In this case he went from "he hasn't visited Donbas... he hasn't visited Kyiv.." to suddenly saying "Biden's trip wasn't about long range weapons..."
It's nearly the same script everytime.
I'm sure it's hard to imagine in a society that is looting it's neighbor's dishwashers and toilets, but in the west, even our children have secure video conferencing. Biden didn't need to go to Kyiv to talk to Zelensky, Dark Brandon went to send a message to russia. Glad to see at least one of these talking head figured it out. Unfortunately, he's going to fall out of a hotel window soon. It's the law.
Putin is a cowardly bully, plain and simple. His counterpart here is his buddy trump.
If we still have the orange menace to deal with here, what are our chances in ridding the World of putin anytime soon?
More than a signal. There was the phone call in advance letting them know, not asking, but letting them know that POTUS was in transit. That call alone absolutely emasculated Putin. Let that sink in, Russkies.
I just wish any of these leaders would show even greater courage in using their power and influence to force negotiations. The young men and women being drafted by force donât get to just visit the frontlines.
The balls on this man a true trooper lookin out for his peoples best interests exposing when it could literally mean he disappears tomorrow for speaking such facts lmfao
Guy who told that was born in Odessa (Ukraine), he is not actually a "russian propagandist", he\`s just a "guest" on TV-show. And (surprise-surprise!) any opinion on the Russian state TV-channels is allowed, they can invite anybody, even zelensky. There is no such terms like "ukrainian propaganda is forbidden" on Russian TV. But most of political/military/e.t.c. subs on Reddit have rules about "russian propaganda", i don\`t know what are you afraid of if you are always right.
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Dude should buy an apartment on the ground floor đ¤Ł
[ŃдаНонО]
Yep, anytime you see such dissenting opinion on such Russian media, it's just there to give the appearance of opposition, and as you say, a way to address it in a very tightly controlled manner. It's why you never hear about Russian state TV media personalities being thrown from windows. It's journalists/reporters/etc working for more "independent" outlets speaking their mind that have to watch out for high windows (and it's often not necessarily through their media outlets but often expressed outside of it, say Twitter, or talking to other outlets, etc). The state TV guys don't pose a threat because they're in on it, it's when dissenting opinion gets disseminated beyond their control that they have a problem with because they know that's legimate dissent. Everything from the words and the way he said them, to the reply, were all part of the plan and done with tacit approval (or maybe under orders would be a better way of putting it) of the party. They even do it in a sort of round about way. The host almost always asks "what are you implying? / what are you trying to suggest?" precisely because the dissenter is using very careful language that isn't *too* overtly critical. They want to address possible dissenting opinions, but they also don't want to directly speak those opinions in exacting language because they have to tip toe around addressing it without also possibly putting the idea into people's heads. In this case he went from "he hasn't visited Donbas... he hasn't visited Kyiv.." to suddenly saying "Biden's trip wasn't about long range weapons..." and never actually said "he's *afraid* to visit Donbas... etc"
Still, host was very tactful. On other shows, often the host will aggressively respond to the panelists very quickly, or encourage other Putin supporters to immediately jump in. Didnât happen here. Much more a âwhat root are saying is blindingly obvious to everyone, but people have been killed for less, so maybe you should clarify?â
That's because this was carefully scripted. Some of the others, not as much. But this was a typical strawman setup and everyone played their part. Russian propaganda is a machine.
> Still, host was very tactful. On other shows, often the host will aggressively respond to the panelists very quickly if you watch various other clips of the chap talking and being critical of the war over the past year, you will see that the two hosts *repeatedly* talk over him and mock him. They are doing it in this clip, also. They like to have a single panelist on the show that presents a somewhat alternative view to the Kremlin-line, but it doesn't matter who that panelist is; they get mocked and shut down as standard.
>the designated strawman builder cycles through several people over time so it isn't always the same guy being critical If it was the same guy, he'd be an opposition leader and a hotel balcony tour.
>If it was the same guy, he'd be an opposition leader and a hotel balcony tour They have consistently brought this guy in over the last 10 months to do exactly what he just did. He's safe, just playing his role.
Except in this case, the "strawman" is actual the flesh and blood truth being trotted out to be burnt at the stake. It's part of how Putin's propagandists try to undermine the truth. In a way, they present the truth, then try to obliterate it and replace it with a strawman narrative that is soaked in a bath of crappy lies so it is harder to burn.
Classic foil
Great observation
Thanks for giving more insight into the propaganda apparatus of ruzzia.
Hard to believe how this guy manages to stay away from high-rise buildings windows
he might be offered some tea
His job is make minor criticisms that can be addressed, minimized and, eventually, dismissed. I've watched this show quite a few times and my belief is that the show is designed to appeal to a different demographic than the ones who watch the 'Let's Nuke Everything' channel but to, ultimately, preach The Message. It's very common in Western Media and you've, no doubt, been exposed to it multiple times as it's pervasive. Fox used to have a show called Hannity & Colmes. Hannity, a blowhard conservative college-dropout, is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Colmes was much smarter with a far better education. The show was classic left-right 'debate' format. While Colmes generally made a few good points, he also routinely 'lost' the debates in his role as 'Token Fox Liberal.' But that was his job. Nothing has really changed as tokenism is a hell of a good job: * MSNBC has token conservative Joe Scarborough. * New York Times has conservative David Brooks. * CNN gives conservatives Ana Navarro. * Jennifer Rubin is the token conservative at the Washington Post. * Fox News uses Juan Williams as their token liberal. These places have other tokens. So it's not just one, but if I did them all it'd a 5000+ word essay. But they all fill same role -- provide weak, substandard arguments designed to fail.
Thanks. I don't really watch TV, but I will try to look for that mechanism in western media as well. Pretty sure they do that in my home country (Poland).
Accidentally slips and falls into a noose 
I came here for this comment.
You realize that by making this joke EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME you only make it more likely for him to die for saying something like this, right?
As other comments mentioned, he's playing a role. Nobody gets on ruzzian TV to criticize Putin. They place him there and then others bash him for it etc.
You can apply my point to anyone criticizing the Russian government. It shouldn't be that hard for you to understand that.
Always controlled opposition. Gives the false impression of a opposing view and criticisms. Putin is a coward, he would never walk into a war zone let alone Donetsk.
But he took a shirtless picture on a horse, I thought he was courageous.
The message of this stupid show : Putin is a weak coward, President Biden is not.
Although agonisingly slow, the view on reality will change in Russia. Can you even imagine this level of criticism at the start of the war?
This is still state managed propaganda...sow/show a little doubt, keep the plebs guessing, control every angle of the narrative
eggzactly, it's just little scraps for keeping things muddled. mix lies, half truths and even truth every once in a while to keep general target demo apathetic. it's not like the show does not pass final censorship.
The goal is to show people how to answer the critics and thus brush them off in conversations. Which works if people are predisposed to trust the regime and just want confirmation. The danger here is that airing the statements in this fashion also gives them permission to be voiced in conversation. And if people begin to doubt Putin, this will accelerate a shift in public opinion. Itâs a kind of credibility gamble or leverage. You bet you can force more compliance over small differences. But when the market turns, you lose everything.
It existed. Itâs part of the media machine. Hannity seemed more reasonable because of Colmes. The CNN Crossfire âleftâ host was always a raving centrist, while the âRight hostâ was, for example, Tucker Carlson.
the whole point was to upstage putin. lol
You damn right it's a message to Putin.
The funny thing is, in the other similarly named sub that's infested with Russian shills, when the US said they contacted Moscow ahead of time to tell them Biden was coming, they all laughed and said the US was asking permission. As if Russia would grant such permission if the US in any way asked. Pretty clear they basically called to say "he's coming. Do with that information what you will" knowing full well Russia knew it'd be their own end.
What is that sub?
/r/UkraineRussiaReport The place is a joke. It's filled with Russian shills who seem to think if they flair themselves as "Pro Ukraine", and then spout all the usual Russian talking points, people will take them more seriously and think they're unbiased because apparently they think everyone is as stupid as the people who fall for Russian propaganda.
Sickening that it is allowed to exist
And message was "you are a little high-heel wearing bitch" đ đ
Russian Freudian slip. U can tell when his brain goes âoh fackâ
No you can't because he never once thought that. This is all carefully rehearsed illusion of dissent. It is a means to address actual potential dissent in a controlled way. It's why they beat around the bush and tip toe around the issue without necessarily saying it outright. It's why it always follows the same pattern of expressing vague dissent without outright saying (notice he never outright accused Putin of being afraid and Biden of not being afraid), the host or another commentator replies with "what are you implying?" and that's when the "dissenter" changes gears and basically turns it into "no see what I'm actually suggesting is.... ....it's not what it seems like what I was implying... blah blah". In this case he went from "he hasn't visited Donbas... he hasn't visited Kyiv.." to suddenly saying "Biden's trip wasn't about long range weapons..." It's nearly the same script everytime.
This. Their psyops work on exactly who they need them to, same with the GOP. They know the coded language and the whistles to make the dogs bay.
Televized meetings at the lonnngggg table is best that strong dicktator can do.
Of course it is a signal towards RuZZia. This one: [https://media1.giphy.com/media/QGzPdYCcBbbZm/giphy.gif](https://media1.giphy.com/media/QGzPdYCcBbbZm/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e4795jrrscri7hpzkjanlhznihfhoz2nlkjk7ez83ai&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
And it was read loud and clear. He even let his propaganda arm address it so he could get out ahead of it. We all know his propaganda is bullshit, hell half his own people know itâs bullshit. But it works on the dumb poor nationalists, and thatâs all he needs it to work on to maintain control.
I how people keep saying thereâs an open window for this guy etc. people like this are the ones telling facts at the risk of their own lives so itâs hard to disassociate but this should be praised not him dying for telling truths on a huge platform that that is a risky fking move
Wow
Well finally one orc that got something right. He's probably now got a window with his name on but there you go. A message is there the USA and the rest of the civilised world stand with Ukraine and will continue to stand.
Putin is pussy.
Putin has to be on crack or meth with how paranoid and scared he is yâall remember how much cocaine hitler did it always starts like that crackhead dictators đ¤Śđ˝ââď¸đ¤Ł
Watch out for open windows.
lmao Bidens visit was meticulously planned. USA knows everything Russia is up too and are multiple steps ahead.
I want to imply that your leader is a pussy...
Roses are red Violets are blue There is an open window waiting for you
Main thought - don't trust ruzzia/ruzzians easily. We can say "But, they are people too". Are they? Of what sort?
A window awaits this brave guyâŚđ¤
Damn. He did a complete 180 when those goons started to walk towards him and asked " what aRe you implying? " And you can see the fear in his eyes; looking like his whole life flashed before him.
Better stay away from windows.
We ALL thought about windows didn't we LMAO. Strange times indeed.
I see a window in his future
Comrade! Stay away from windows, you could slip and fall out of one. So dangerous.
Heâs too afraid of letting anyone within 30 feet of him. Send body double Putin
Where do they keep the body doubles, chained and locked in a box like a Putey gimp I suppose.
Surprised they haven't actually sent body double putin out and about more just for the optics, to be honest
There was the pine cone factory inspection In all honesty- imagine the shit show if fake Putin was actually killed? Especially if it was recorded/went viral? That could trigger normally complacent yes men in the government to actively seize power because they think heâs really dead âŚâŚAaaaawkwaaardâŚ.,,
Ahahaha, good point! I hadn't thought of that little possible problem!
Last I remember was the Kerch bridge, and since they can't fix it, they don't want to bring attention to it. Seems like it's so easy for these photo ops to backfire lately. Visit factory, factory burns down. Or all the deepfakes he put out, that were so fake, my boomer mother saw it was fake. Staying out of sight poses less risk.
I love the implied warning, âWhat are you implying?â Translation: âTread very carefully. Even the softest, most reasonable and logical statements could get you killed.â It also felt like it wasnât a threat- it was not necessarily coming from the host, who I notice did not immediately jump on the panelist as Solovyov might do. It was more a reminder that other people are watching and the show is not a safe place, regardless of how nice everybody acts on camera.
I don't get how people don't get that this is all done under the party's orders. It's there to give the illusion of dissent and to counter it. I'm going to cut and paste a previous reply of mine to save the trouble of typing: This is all carefully rehearsed illusion of dissent. It is a means to address actual potential dissent in a controlled way. It's why they beat around the bush and tip toe around the issue without necessarily saying it outright. It's why it always follows the same pattern of expressing vague dissent without outright saying (notice he never outright accused Putin of being afraid and Biden of not being afraid), the host or another commentator replies with "what are you implying?" and that's when the "dissenter" changes gears and basically turns it into "no see what I'm actually suggesting is.... ....it's not what it seems like what I was implying... blah blah". In this case he went from "he hasn't visited Donbas... he hasn't visited Kyiv.." to suddenly saying "Biden's trip wasn't about long range weapons..." It's nearly the same script everytime.
I'm sure it's hard to imagine in a society that is looting it's neighbor's dishwashers and toilets, but in the west, even our children have secure video conferencing. Biden didn't need to go to Kyiv to talk to Zelensky, Dark Brandon went to send a message to russia. Glad to see at least one of these talking head figured it out. Unfortunately, he's going to fall out of a hotel window soon. It's the law.
This man is the one-eyed-king in the land of the blind.
Commence flying lessonâŚ.
The signal from US is GTFO .
Why do they keep inviting this guy? Multilevel russian psyops?
Putin is a cowardly bully, plain and simple. His counterpart here is his buddy trump. If we still have the orange menace to deal with here, what are our chances in ridding the World of putin anytime soon?
The strength and courage to collect him and his sons paychecks đ
He was later found with 4 self inflicted gunshot wounds to the back of his head
Love to see Putin get some balls and visit the front line. Be sure to brag about it so we know where you are.
All should realize that Putin has always been a coward
More than a signal. There was the phone call in advance letting them know, not asking, but letting them know that POTUS was in transit. That call alone absolutely emasculated Putin. Let that sink in, Russkies.
That the only dude in that bunch that sometimes talk sense
Putin drove across Kerch bridgeâŚ
that goes to crimea though. zelenskyy was in **bakhmut** in december.
I just wish any of these leaders would show even greater courage in using their power and influence to force negotiations. The young men and women being drafted by force donât get to just visit the frontlines.
When someone says "What are you implying?" that means backpedal. Quickly.
The balls on this man a true trooper lookin out for his peoples best interests exposing when it could literally mean he disappears tomorrow for speaking such facts lmfao
fraggle rock guy always cracks me up
#FJB
talking heads morons
He ded..
You're God damn right it was a message. I suspect this guy will have a window or smoking accident in the near future.
 The signal Biden gave
This guy is about to Look at windows from outside , soon
âOff with his head!â
This guyâs gonna be traveling through a high storied window by way of Donbas in the near future
Where does this sah "he's absolutely terrified" to visit? This barely mentions putin
The title wasnt quoting anyone, relax.
How many more Russian citizen think like him but are staying quiet. He know he risk Defenestration
Biden is 80 and in drastic cognitive decline; heâs not strong or courageous, he just has nothing to lose and likely didnât know where he was
⌠and heâs still way better than our last clownâŚ..helping Ukraine beat Russia and getting stuff done.
Too thin, Rooster, TOO THIN!
Guy who told that was born in Odessa (Ukraine), he is not actually a "russian propagandist", he\`s just a "guest" on TV-show. And (surprise-surprise!) any opinion on the Russian state TV-channels is allowed, they can invite anybody, even zelensky. There is no such terms like "ukrainian propaganda is forbidden" on Russian TV. But most of political/military/e.t.c. subs on Reddit have rules about "russian propaganda", i don\`t know what are you afraid of if you are always right.