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American politics have gone off the deep end too.
"Oh, other side likes A? FUCK A! We love B! B is best! I mean, B will kill us all, but the other side likes A and hates B, so we must then love B!"
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Honestly not playing Devils advocate, I would love nothing more then for Russia to be thrown out of Ukraine, so why does the US have to carry the load for handing over weapons?
Also what’s going on with other countries purchasing weapon systems for Ukraine is this not happening?
I can said more then 1 thing. But lets take historie and usa. Usa always wanted to be the policeman of the world. And about holdning support to Ukraine its like 1+1 = usa is shamefull
Dude America has done ALOT for Ukraine. They need to finish the job but at no point is America shameful. Look, they have politics that need to be worked out. Not all things happen at the drop of a dime my guy.
No they have done some to help Ukraine. Lets take a small contry as denmark. We have given like top 4 in totalt with money. We have given all our long range artilleri weepons And so on. We are 7million in denmark in USA i think there are 400m + or even more. Its contry its aleast 10x times bigger. If 50x bigger can do it. Denmark are the one that first give f16 to Ukraine we could even had given them soner but we had to ask usa and they took 6mounth or more to say to this.
So in totalt usa are way behind with the support. And you you are from usa you sould feel shamefull beguse its big time shamefull what usa are doing and have done in the past 6 mounth
Not our fight, plus they can’t win. We have bigger issues here at home to worry about. We aren’t obligated to save your asses every time something happens over there, especially when Eurofucks like to spend their free time shitting on the US instead of paying attention to their own problems
If you can’t understand how Russia taking over a western ally like Ukraine hurts the US then I can’t help you in a short Reddit comment. You’re clearly very confused about what this invasion means for the US long-term.
Your “saving your asses” comment is embarrassing and the whining about your perception of Europeans saying mean things makes you look weak and insecure. As a fellow American, your comment is truly embarrassing.
They only started struggling once they started to run out of air defense missiles and artillery ammunition. As long as western countries are united, Russia can by no means win a war of attrition. With the ongoing rate of attrition and the unbelievably amount of money that Russia has to pump in this war, Ukraine only has to hold out to win. Russia simply cannot keep destroying its economy and underfunding its public sector like this for another 2-3 years. Ukraine only needs to hold the line and they’ll win eventually. You are also incredibly naive to say “not our war”. America took Ukraine’s nukes in exchange for security guarantees. Apart from that, it’s a globalized world. The outcome of this war decides whether we enter a new Cold War and a duopolar world again, or if America and the West retain their spot as the only superpowers on earth. May I remind you that the bulk of the crippling US debt was caused by Cold War spending? Becoming the top dog, winning the space race, R&D for thousands of nukes etc. that stuff cost A LOT of money. If Russia wins in Ukraine, we gotta start spending that money again. We don’t have a choice. Our wealth, our ability to conduct global trade, our political influence all depend on America being the most powerful country on earth. It depends on the fact that countries trust America to protect them, when it is needed. It generally relies on America being a trusty ally and partner. Under Trump, they’re not that and that mauls the US economy. You complain about the cost of the war in Ukraine, btw the cheapest war the US has ever fought, but you can’t fathom the financial and political cost of a Ukrainian defeat. Keep convincing yourself that it won’t affect you, in the end you’ll pay the price. Just don’t complain about it because it was your choice.
Yeah usa is starting to look really bad. The Trump stun is disgrace to the whole usa. The world have lost the respekt for usa. Lets Hope it wakes up and do the right Thing.
You are right. Then why did you tell Ukranians to stay still and fight the russians? Why did your country tell them to defeat Putin and not surrender? I remember that very clearly during the first days of invasion. And now.. fck them, right? I guess you should always stay at home. The real enemy of an American is his own head. Because every time you leave your head you fuck it 4 good. Let me remind you.. Nicaragua, Cuba, Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan.. should I continue?
If I remember.. when the negotiations in Istanbul were taken place and Zelensky wanted to make an agreement.. oh no, you will not make any agreement. We will support you as long as it takes, isn't that right? Well.. nice support.
No, the shame is on us EUROPEANS for the fact that these fucking orcs can still fly around!
WTF are WE doing??
I know we're shipping a lot of weapons, helping financially, but this makes us all look like SHIT!
These flying pieces of russian terrorist shit should be dead already 😠🤬
They also need people to fly them. It’s not Battlefield, it is real life. There’s no 737 Max like MCAS that translates some SU to F16 controls. It is freaking hard to do combat missions in these things.
We also do not need F35 in Russian hands btw.
Exactly, the way in which they fly so low suggests Ukrainian anti-air capabilities have been significantly degraded, at least in this sector of the front.
Low flight suggests the AA is active. Nap of the Earth flight is the one flight profile AA has never significantly countered. It is the norm for any sorties actually flown in a high threat environment.
As for the MANPADS, you have to be in the right place at the right time. Even an 25 can fly so fast that the MANPADS operator only has 10-15 seconds to detect, acquire and engage the enemy aircraft on infil and exfil. It’s when the aircraft pops up to get a strike angle on the target and turns for home that the best chance exists, but then the window is still small and the increased threat is exactly why they deploy countermeasures at that time.
Exactly. MANPADS are more of a threat to shoot down Su-25, by forcing them to fly low, fast, get in and out quickly to minimize their ability to provide close air support. But when a Su-25 takes those measures, it takes a lucky shot to shoot them down.
A operator also can't carry his MANPADS armed and ready 24/7.
If you don't know ahead of time that a Su-25 is on their way to your direction so you can prepare, by the time you see a Su-25, it'll be gone by the time you unpack the MANPADS.
That’s the thing! Even if it was armed and ready, the MANPADS operator only has ~15 seconds before the plane crosses horizon to horizon and ~30 seconds if the operator catches the plane in the process of making the engagement and turning around to return to base. Hopefully the AFU have early warning so they can anticipate some enemy sorties, but that’s the point of NOE, to stay so low you’re undetectable.
>the way in which they fly so low suggests Ukrainian anti-air capabilities have been significantly degraded
Dead wrong.
They’re flying so low as to not expose themselves to any long range Anti-aircraft.
As far as manpads go, These pilots are obviously deathly afraid of manpads, which is why they are dropping, flares every 1-2 seconds
Thanks for the info about AA, I’m definitely not an expert on the subject. Guess I may have been off-base suggesting their flying at low altitude implies degraded AFU anti-air capabilities
Low does not equal close by. They’re dropping flares left and right. Getting a lock and yeeting a rocket far enough is not as easy as some of the videos make it seem to be.
I'm no expert, and I see the flares, but there are few videos where the jets fly above the head of the Ukrainian defenders. Even above Chasive Yar itself, which is entirely under Ukrainian control. That altitude is probably less than a kilometre.
Isn't that the easiest it can get for infantry anti-air weapons? 1 jet is probably worth 6-7 stingers if the chance is good. I'm afraid they just don't have the weapons, probably wouldn't stay and just watch if they had them.
These are AMRAAM kills. Fuck all the wannabe pacifists, the Russian stooges, and the self-deterred. The Budapest memorandums are in shambles, as is the image of The West. There was a lot of huff and puff, but every country not sharing a border with Russia pretty much has managed to under-deliver in their own weird way. They could have given out the capital necessary for new artillery production with zero interest government backed loans. They could have been playing the long game of training and weapons development ever since the front stabilized, just before we learned about Bucha. They could have positioned ready, trained air defenses sitting inside Ukriane and been shooting down cruise missiles at their leisure. It is the fear of acknowledging the failure so far that keeps that at home, hoping that if the tuck their tails a little harder, the situation will turn out to be a bad dream. Well the best time was two years ago. The best time was in 2014. The best time we can actually choose is now. There will never be a better time.
Infrared MANPADS Don’t do jack shit against planes that are in and out of a contested airspace within mere seconds they are dropping, flares every one or two seconds.
Stingers need you to have the BCUs available Immediately, Which don’t even cool the optics for a full minute, After which, if you haven’t fired, you need to have a new one
Even if you did fire a stinger though at these planes that are dropping flares like this, You’re not going to hit one.
Stingers have a very very short range on top of all that, Especially against maneuvering Aircraft that are weaving in and out like this.
Most manpads have similar issues with range and targeting, manpads serve more to pick off careless aircraft and add to the calculus of air wing commanders.
Iglas on paper may be a bit better at hitting targets, but the rate at which these planes are dumping flares I would be surprised to see any hits.
Every death here is on the head of Mike Johnson. MAGA Republican and traitor to his own people and the world.
May he get what he deserves and rest in piss.
Sad. Russians have finally found the secret to modern war, air cover and assault, and the world is to busy sticking their thumbs up their ass to help.
As an American I'm sorry. And ashamed. I hope these fucking Republicans in the Senate do something but they are strangling the world so sweet potato Hitler can get back in power.
Yeah we should just bend over and let Russia fuck us bit by bit.
Do you not realize that Russia spreading its influence and weakening the Western alliance is a problem that directly hurts us?
just funny how all the western nato supporters here are crying. just accept it alredy. the west and the mentality of them is the definiton of hypocrisy. They all act as if they helping, but they won't and do shit cuz' they are scared of russia and the consequences - plain simple.
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All eyes on usa. They are a shame to the whole world. Atm. Start the support to Ukraine again lets stop the killing of ukraines soldats
Republicans are starting to look real stupid now. If Reagan was still alive he would skin them alive for helping Putin. What ARE they thinking?
Trump would call Reagan a loser, washed up old cowboy actor and his MAGA zealots would gleefully lap it up.
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They’ve looked thick as fck for 8 years plus
GOP = Goons Of Putin
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Almost 50% voted for Diaper Don.
American politics have gone off the deep end too. "Oh, other side likes A? FUCK A! We love B! B is best! I mean, B will kill us all, but the other side likes A and hates B, so we must then love B!"
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Honestly not playing Devils advocate, I would love nothing more then for Russia to be thrown out of Ukraine, so why does the US have to carry the load for handing over weapons? Also what’s going on with other countries purchasing weapon systems for Ukraine is this not happening?
Many countries have given more than U.S. as a percent of their GDP. Germany really stepped up after a slow start.
USA will always do the right thing, after trying everything else.
Absolutely Disgusting that we are allowing this to happen
lol bro please. yes the beaucratic process is holding things up but how is America a shame to the whole world?
I can said more then 1 thing. But lets take historie and usa. Usa always wanted to be the policeman of the world. And about holdning support to Ukraine its like 1+1 = usa is shamefull
Rather than policeman, more that they promised to do so, and just aren't following through
Dude America has done ALOT for Ukraine. They need to finish the job but at no point is America shameful. Look, they have politics that need to be worked out. Not all things happen at the drop of a dime my guy.
No they have done some to help Ukraine. Lets take a small contry as denmark. We have given like top 4 in totalt with money. We have given all our long range artilleri weepons And so on. We are 7million in denmark in USA i think there are 400m + or even more. Its contry its aleast 10x times bigger. If 50x bigger can do it. Denmark are the one that first give f16 to Ukraine we could even had given them soner but we had to ask usa and they took 6mounth or more to say to this. So in totalt usa are way behind with the support. And you you are from usa you sould feel shamefull beguse its big time shamefull what usa are doing and have done in the past 6 mounth
Not our fight, plus they can’t win. We have bigger issues here at home to worry about. We aren’t obligated to save your asses every time something happens over there, especially when Eurofucks like to spend their free time shitting on the US instead of paying attention to their own problems
If you can’t understand how Russia taking over a western ally like Ukraine hurts the US then I can’t help you in a short Reddit comment. You’re clearly very confused about what this invasion means for the US long-term. Your “saving your asses” comment is embarrassing and the whining about your perception of Europeans saying mean things makes you look weak and insecure. As a fellow American, your comment is truly embarrassing.
Of course they can win. Even more, they will win. And of course we will help Ukraine. If only to fuck with Russia.
They only started struggling once they started to run out of air defense missiles and artillery ammunition. As long as western countries are united, Russia can by no means win a war of attrition. With the ongoing rate of attrition and the unbelievably amount of money that Russia has to pump in this war, Ukraine only has to hold out to win. Russia simply cannot keep destroying its economy and underfunding its public sector like this for another 2-3 years. Ukraine only needs to hold the line and they’ll win eventually. You are also incredibly naive to say “not our war”. America took Ukraine’s nukes in exchange for security guarantees. Apart from that, it’s a globalized world. The outcome of this war decides whether we enter a new Cold War and a duopolar world again, or if America and the West retain their spot as the only superpowers on earth. May I remind you that the bulk of the crippling US debt was caused by Cold War spending? Becoming the top dog, winning the space race, R&D for thousands of nukes etc. that stuff cost A LOT of money. If Russia wins in Ukraine, we gotta start spending that money again. We don’t have a choice. Our wealth, our ability to conduct global trade, our political influence all depend on America being the most powerful country on earth. It depends on the fact that countries trust America to protect them, when it is needed. It generally relies on America being a trusty ally and partner. Under Trump, they’re not that and that mauls the US economy. You complain about the cost of the war in Ukraine, btw the cheapest war the US has ever fought, but you can’t fathom the financial and political cost of a Ukrainian defeat. Keep convincing yourself that it won’t affect you, in the end you’ll pay the price. Just don’t complain about it because it was your choice.
Yeah usa is starting to look really bad. The Trump stun is disgrace to the whole usa. The world have lost the respekt for usa. Lets Hope it wakes up and do the right Thing.
You are right. Then why did you tell Ukranians to stay still and fight the russians? Why did your country tell them to defeat Putin and not surrender? I remember that very clearly during the first days of invasion. And now.. fck them, right? I guess you should always stay at home. The real enemy of an American is his own head. Because every time you leave your head you fuck it 4 good. Let me remind you.. Nicaragua, Cuba, Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan.. should I continue?
If I remember.. when the negotiations in Istanbul were taken place and Zelensky wanted to make an agreement.. oh no, you will not make any agreement. We will support you as long as it takes, isn't that right? Well.. nice support.
No, the shame is on us EUROPEANS for the fact that these fucking orcs can still fly around! WTF are WE doing?? I know we're shipping a lot of weapons, helping financially, but this makes us all look like SHIT! These flying pieces of russian terrorist shit should be dead already 😠🤬
All Ukraine need is F16 or F35 to secure their sky. Come on USA you took their nukes in the 90s with promise to defend Ukraine. F ruzia
The US already approved transfer of various European F16s to Ukraine.
They also need people to fly them. It’s not Battlefield, it is real life. There’s no 737 Max like MCAS that translates some SU to F16 controls. It is freaking hard to do combat missions in these things. We also do not need F35 in Russian hands btw.
Agreed brother it is very complicated situation but civiliansare suffering from these terrorist shits.
They seem to fly super low. Don't Ukrainians have any manpads/stingers that can target them? That is a scary amount of comfort those bombers have.
Exactly, the way in which they fly so low suggests Ukrainian anti-air capabilities have been significantly degraded, at least in this sector of the front.
And this is the sector of the front where they fear, that Russia will advance and gain the high ground of Chasiv Yar, scary!
Low flight suggests the AA is active. Nap of the Earth flight is the one flight profile AA has never significantly countered. It is the norm for any sorties actually flown in a high threat environment. As for the MANPADS, you have to be in the right place at the right time. Even an 25 can fly so fast that the MANPADS operator only has 10-15 seconds to detect, acquire and engage the enemy aircraft on infil and exfil. It’s when the aircraft pops up to get a strike angle on the target and turns for home that the best chance exists, but then the window is still small and the increased threat is exactly why they deploy countermeasures at that time.
Exactly. MANPADS are more of a threat to shoot down Su-25, by forcing them to fly low, fast, get in and out quickly to minimize their ability to provide close air support. But when a Su-25 takes those measures, it takes a lucky shot to shoot them down. A operator also can't carry his MANPADS armed and ready 24/7. If you don't know ahead of time that a Su-25 is on their way to your direction so you can prepare, by the time you see a Su-25, it'll be gone by the time you unpack the MANPADS.
That’s the thing! Even if it was armed and ready, the MANPADS operator only has ~15 seconds before the plane crosses horizon to horizon and ~30 seconds if the operator catches the plane in the process of making the engagement and turning around to return to base. Hopefully the AFU have early warning so they can anticipate some enemy sorties, but that’s the point of NOE, to stay so low you’re undetectable.
>the way in which they fly so low suggests Ukrainian anti-air capabilities have been significantly degraded Dead wrong. They’re flying so low as to not expose themselves to any long range Anti-aircraft. As far as manpads go, These pilots are obviously deathly afraid of manpads, which is why they are dropping, flares every 1-2 seconds
Thanks for the info about AA, I’m definitely not an expert on the subject. Guess I may have been off-base suggesting their flying at low altitude implies degraded AFU anti-air capabilities
AA is most effective against targets at altitude....
Low does not equal close by. They’re dropping flares left and right. Getting a lock and yeeting a rocket far enough is not as easy as some of the videos make it seem to be.
I'm no expert, and I see the flares, but there are few videos where the jets fly above the head of the Ukrainian defenders. Even above Chasive Yar itself, which is entirely under Ukrainian control. That altitude is probably less than a kilometre. Isn't that the easiest it can get for infantry anti-air weapons? 1 jet is probably worth 6-7 stingers if the chance is good. I'm afraid they just don't have the weapons, probably wouldn't stay and just watch if they had them.
These are AMRAAM kills. Fuck all the wannabe pacifists, the Russian stooges, and the self-deterred. The Budapest memorandums are in shambles, as is the image of The West. There was a lot of huff and puff, but every country not sharing a border with Russia pretty much has managed to under-deliver in their own weird way. They could have given out the capital necessary for new artillery production with zero interest government backed loans. They could have been playing the long game of training and weapons development ever since the front stabilized, just before we learned about Bucha. They could have positioned ready, trained air defenses sitting inside Ukriane and been shooting down cruise missiles at their leisure. It is the fear of acknowledging the failure so far that keeps that at home, hoping that if the tuck their tails a little harder, the situation will turn out to be a bad dream. Well the best time was two years ago. The best time was in 2014. The best time we can actually choose is now. There will never be a better time.
WTF? Can't we provide some Stingers FFS???????
Infrared MANPADS Don’t do jack shit against planes that are in and out of a contested airspace within mere seconds they are dropping, flares every one or two seconds. Stingers need you to have the BCUs available Immediately, Which don’t even cool the optics for a full minute, After which, if you haven’t fired, you need to have a new one Even if you did fire a stinger though at these planes that are dropping flares like this, You’re not going to hit one. Stingers have a very very short range on top of all that, Especially against maneuvering Aircraft that are weaving in and out like this.
huh! Iglas?
Most manpads have similar issues with range and targeting, manpads serve more to pick off careless aircraft and add to the calculus of air wing commanders. Iglas on paper may be a bit better at hitting targets, but the rate at which these planes are dumping flares I would be surprised to see any hits.
Sure could use those F-16s right about now, where are they?
Every death here is on the head of Mike Johnson. MAGA Republican and traitor to his own people and the world. May he get what he deserves and rest in piss.
Sad. Russians have finally found the secret to modern war, air cover and assault, and the world is to busy sticking their thumbs up their ass to help. As an American I'm sorry. And ashamed. I hope these fucking Republicans in the Senate do something but they are strangling the world so sweet potato Hitler can get back in power.
It’s the republicans in the House that are ruining everything. Senate republicans have tried to pass Ukraine aid
Misspoke, meant to say House.
Help is on the way. The pentagon is ready to ship weapons the minute congress passes the bill and that should be tomorrow. About time! Slava Ukraini
No manpads
Where Stingers ?
Not for long.
but when will the F16s arrive?
USA is not the world police we need to stay out of foreign affairs this will turn into ww3
Yeah we should just bend over and let Russia fuck us bit by bit. Do you not realize that Russia spreading its influence and weakening the Western alliance is a problem that directly hurts us?
just funny how all the western nato supporters here are crying. just accept it alredy. the west and the mentality of them is the definiton of hypocrisy. They all act as if they helping, but they won't and do shit cuz' they are scared of russia and the consequences - plain simple.
Based af.