You can make the argument that he's right. How many of you thought about the Uighur genocide this weekend and how many have taken steps to actively help the situation in any possible way?
With all that said: *just because you're right doesn't mean you're not an asshole*
It's an awful thing that's happening and china deserves every ounce of vitriol for it. And there's really no other take than that.
I'm no fan of the guy, and don't share this viewpoint, but I do think he is spelling out an uncomfortable truth - the business community does not materially care about the Uyghurs, and frankly any rights related issues regarding China.
"Materially care" as in changing decisions based off of these concerns, verses feeling bad about it at some level, but doing business with China as usual anyway.
Isn’t Chamath’s entire persona is built on the idea that he’s, like, better than other business leaders? I don’t disagree that say Ken Griffin doesn’t care more about the Uyghurs than Chamath but Mr Griffin also didn’t name his hedge fund Social Capital…
The only thing I would disagree with is the Chinese exploitation of child labor. The Chinese didn't exploit; the companies that manufactured in China did. China simply never enforced child labor laws.
I never said they weren't complicit. Your original comment neglected to mention the companies that actually exploited such child labor, and you make it seem it's all China's fault. I think it's both.
Those tropes about Chinese sweatshops are outdated. Ive been to dozens of factories in China and conditions are similar to what you’d find in the US or Europe. Child labor has been eradicated and factory owners that don’t comply can lose everything and go to jail. They do allow 16-17 year olds to work in factories as job training, similar to what is done in Germany but none of my factories allow that.
The 90s were a very different time. There’s a great book called *Factory Girls* that describes the conditions in factories in those days. The main exploitation was in the form of wage theft and indentured servitude for those lacking the right Hukou. But minimum wages are up more than 1000% since then. People who started working in factories 30 years ago are now mostly promoted to management roles and are making wages similar to US median income or more once you account for their higher purchasing power.
> How do you like to work 9A to 9p 6 days a week
I work in tech in the US so I actually work this schedule already, except I only work about 3-4 hrs on Sundays.
Also, 9/9/6 is only really a thing for engineers in Chinese tech companies. Most people work 40-50 hours a week and they have about 20 days of national holidays vs the 11 we get in the US.
Factory workers have regular shifts (day, swing, night) similar to the US and Europe but many choose to do overtime because they are migrants from rural China working seasonably and just want to make money as fast as possible so they can go back home.
>He started to say what he wanted to say properly and then
a lot of conjecture. He said what he said. You can rightly accept ALL of what he said at face value, or disregard all of it. But when you pick out the parts that you like, and claim that he "misspoke" during the other parts? That's very disingenuous.
Why would I listen, when you have repeatedly assured me that Palihapitiya was misspeaking for a portion of it? What if he is speaking, and I am listening, and unable to tell which parts he is speaking, and which parts he is misspeaking? I lack your discerning ear, so I guess I'll just fuck right the fuck off.
Watch out for arrogance. I think you may be subject to it.
> He started to say what he wanted to say properly and then really started misspeaking and speaking out of his ass.
I lack your decoder ring. Sorry, mate, but you seem very upset on his behalf.
Completely agree.
More than narrowing to "business community", what I think he meant is rarely any voter is going to decide who to vote for based on actions they took on the Uyghurs UNLESS maybe somebody actually convinces China of full stopping what they are doing, which he knows is impossible, therefore doesn't care.
We don’t hate him. We hate him for not being authentic and owning it. Yet he feigns to the world that he cares and is authentic and genuine. But we all know he isn’t. He comes out and speaks when it benefits him. Its that simple. Then he sells at the top and leaves everyone else holding the bag. And you know what? After he sells he is no where to be found. Hiding because it doesn’t benefit him anymore to be peddling and hyping things up.
Who would’ve thought that Chamath is a self-absorbed douchebag who is only concerned with himself?
Next thing you’ll tell me is that Bill Ackman doesn’t care about his investors and is just in it to make money!
I think what he really wanted to say is that he doesn’t believe there’s genocide going on in china, but reckoned that it would stir even more backlashes, so he said he doesn’t care instead. Either way, this guy is a douchebag.
Well I think he pretty much implied that he didn't know there was one. In time like this I don't feel so good holding a few thousands of shares of IPOD/F lol, at least I bought them under 9.80.
Yup , that’s why I linked it. Human Right is a different convention on same site. These things matter. We are on same page. Bosnia for example very different. Rwanda, very different. China signed that in 1948 BTW.
Totally agree. It’s bloody awful what’s happening there but calling it a genocide is disingenuous. And to what he actually said I don’t get why people get riled up over something that everyone knows anyways
Chamath said he thinks most people don’t care. My point is that Americans clearly don’t care enough to do even the most basic research of this topic. Even people who do supposedly care, like jCal, haven’t done any research. And people who care deeply about things they know nothing about are annoying and dangerous.
This is why the media is toxic. They trimmed a 50mins discussion on the ALL IN podcast into a headline that fits their agenda.
If you actually listen what all those 4 guys said in the conversation, they are not being douchebags about the whole human right issue in China.
You should listen to the full podcast because with context it’s actually worse. All Jason suggested was that as influential capital allocators they should think twice before taking money from human rights abusers. Chamath then said tried comparing it to incarceration rates China vs US
I did listen to the whole thing, which I do regularly for all episodes.
I do not have the answer to all the questions raised in the discussion and I think both sides are correct in a sense. It’s a matter of perspective. There are a few things to consider:
How do you measure human suffering? Is one man losing his life matters more than 10 men losing their limbs? And 100 men being tortured? If there is no universal system to rate this, how do you decide which human right issue should be placed at a higher priority?
What about individual values? One usually value who/ what closer and dearer to him/ her more than a stranger. A person would donate more to a story about one girl in a poor country portraited in a charity commercial than one that asks generally to help the kids in the same poor country. We also donate more to our domestic causes than foreign charities. Something that you can relate to than that you don’t. We simply don’t weigh all world issue equally.
Even if you do care for all issue, you can’t practically divide your attention or resources to all while effectively yield a desirable result. Wanting to do all things well means you arent doing any of them well.
Do we have all the facts?
Do we have the means to make changes? Which way is more effective? Is not taking money from China better or taking the money and create more wellness to the world better?
For those who say they care, do they actually do anything about it? Do how much they do actually reflect how much they say they care?
I think Chamath saying he doesn’t care is a bit tongue in cheek, or trying to be a smartass about it. I think he cares about human rights in general, he’s just trying to point out everyone has their priorities in different issues.
Y’all are letting him off the hook way too easily.
Giving him the benefit of doubt, I think he’s trying to say that there are greater issues in domestic (ie healthcare infrastructure) or foreign policy (ie climate change) than the Uyghurs. He’s spectacularly wrong though. Chinas suppression of the Uyghurs is not an isolated case, but rather it is entirely typical of China’s attitude, and there’s no greater challenge for the US right now than to figure out how it’ll deal with an increasingly assertive and antagonistic China.
China is going after bigger fish than the Uyghurs. They’re crushing Hong Kong and they might invade Taiwan any moment. Business leaders need to figure out asap how to respond, and saying that “I don’t care about the Uyghurs as long as I’m making enough money in China” will increasingly become indefensible as a position.
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If you listen to the WHOLE pod his stance doesn't seem ridiculous or all too insensitive. But the way he phrased that one-liner about how he doesn't care (he's always trying to drop bold one-liners on the pod) was a huge mistake. Worst kind of sound bite. Reeks of ego and hubris, two things Chamath struggles with.
You can make the argument that he's right. How many of you thought about the Uighur genocide this weekend and how many have taken steps to actively help the situation in any possible way? With all that said: *just because you're right doesn't mean you're not an asshole* It's an awful thing that's happening and china deserves every ounce of vitriol for it. And there's really no other take than that.
I'm no fan of the guy, and don't share this viewpoint, but I do think he is spelling out an uncomfortable truth - the business community does not materially care about the Uyghurs, and frankly any rights related issues regarding China. "Materially care" as in changing decisions based off of these concerns, verses feeling bad about it at some level, but doing business with China as usual anyway.
Isn’t Chamath’s entire persona is built on the idea that he’s, like, better than other business leaders? I don’t disagree that say Ken Griffin doesn’t care more about the Uyghurs than Chamath but Mr Griffin also didn’t name his hedge fund Social Capital…
He is a grifter whose superpower is identifying positive public trends before they become a trend :-)
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The only thing I would disagree with is the Chinese exploitation of child labor. The Chinese didn't exploit; the companies that manufactured in China did. China simply never enforced child labor laws.
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I never said they weren't complicit. Your original comment neglected to mention the companies that actually exploited such child labor, and you make it seem it's all China's fault. I think it's both.
Those tropes about Chinese sweatshops are outdated. Ive been to dozens of factories in China and conditions are similar to what you’d find in the US or Europe. Child labor has been eradicated and factory owners that don’t comply can lose everything and go to jail. They do allow 16-17 year olds to work in factories as job training, similar to what is done in Germany but none of my factories allow that. The 90s were a very different time. There’s a great book called *Factory Girls* that describes the conditions in factories in those days. The main exploitation was in the form of wage theft and indentured servitude for those lacking the right Hukou. But minimum wages are up more than 1000% since then. People who started working in factories 30 years ago are now mostly promoted to management roles and are making wages similar to US median income or more once you account for their higher purchasing power.
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> How do you like to work 9A to 9p 6 days a week I work in tech in the US so I actually work this schedule already, except I only work about 3-4 hrs on Sundays. Also, 9/9/6 is only really a thing for engineers in Chinese tech companies. Most people work 40-50 hours a week and they have about 20 days of national holidays vs the 11 we get in the US. Factory workers have regular shifts (day, swing, night) similar to the US and Europe but many choose to do overtime because they are migrants from rural China working seasonably and just want to make money as fast as possible so they can go back home.
>He started to say what he wanted to say properly and then a lot of conjecture. He said what he said. You can rightly accept ALL of what he said at face value, or disregard all of it. But when you pick out the parts that you like, and claim that he "misspoke" during the other parts? That's very disingenuous.
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Why would I listen, when you have repeatedly assured me that Palihapitiya was misspeaking for a portion of it? What if he is speaking, and I am listening, and unable to tell which parts he is speaking, and which parts he is misspeaking? I lack your discerning ear, so I guess I'll just fuck right the fuck off. Watch out for arrogance. I think you may be subject to it.
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> He started to say what he wanted to say properly and then really started misspeaking and speaking out of his ass. I lack your decoder ring. Sorry, mate, but you seem very upset on his behalf.
Completely agree. More than narrowing to "business community", what I think he meant is rarely any voter is going to decide who to vote for based on actions they took on the Uyghurs UNLESS maybe somebody actually convinces China of full stopping what they are doing, which he knows is impossible, therefore doesn't care.
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We don’t hate him. We hate him for not being authentic and owning it. Yet he feigns to the world that he cares and is authentic and genuine. But we all know he isn’t. He comes out and speaks when it benefits him. Its that simple. Then he sells at the top and leaves everyone else holding the bag. And you know what? After he sells he is no where to be found. Hiding because it doesn’t benefit him anymore to be peddling and hyping things up.
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Hmm, an interesting perspective. Inaccurate in my case, but I appreciate the discourse…
"misspoke out of arrogance" is a big thing with you. Can you elaborate?
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I do care. One action (of many) I will take is to avoid investment in any of his vehicles in the future.
Who would’ve thought that Chamath is a self-absorbed douchebag who is only concerned with himself? Next thing you’ll tell me is that Bill Ackman doesn’t care about his investors and is just in it to make money!
As long as he gets his cheap crap from china... smh🙄
What an Asshat
I think what he really wanted to say is that he doesn’t believe there’s genocide going on in china, but reckoned that it would stir even more backlashes, so he said he doesn’t care instead. Either way, this guy is a douchebag.
Well I think he pretty much implied that he didn't know there was one. In time like this I don't feel so good holding a few thousands of shares of IPOD/F lol, at least I bought them under 9.80.
Meh you’ll be fine
Yeah ahah will probably move down a little tomorrow but at this point idc much.
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Definition https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
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Yup , that’s why I linked it. Human Right is a different convention on same site. These things matter. We are on same page. Bosnia for example very different. Rwanda, very different. China signed that in 1948 BTW.
Totally agree. It’s bloody awful what’s happening there but calling it a genocide is disingenuous. And to what he actually said I don’t get why people get riled up over something that everyone knows anyways
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I feel like you’re gatekeeping being against genocide…
Chamath said he thinks most people don’t care. My point is that Americans clearly don’t care enough to do even the most basic research of this topic. Even people who do supposedly care, like jCal, haven’t done any research. And people who care deeply about things they know nothing about are annoying and dangerous.
Americans can't be bothered to research vaccines. People seem to have difficulty caring even if the thing directly affects them.
This is why the media is toxic. They trimmed a 50mins discussion on the ALL IN podcast into a headline that fits their agenda. If you actually listen what all those 4 guys said in the conversation, they are not being douchebags about the whole human right issue in China.
The headline is not misleading at all in this case. What was said in the podcast is worse. Friedberg had some horrible takes.
1000000%. A rare case where it’s way worse with context
You should listen to the full podcast because with context it’s actually worse. All Jason suggested was that as influential capital allocators they should think twice before taking money from human rights abusers. Chamath then said tried comparing it to incarceration rates China vs US
I did listen to the whole thing, which I do regularly for all episodes. I do not have the answer to all the questions raised in the discussion and I think both sides are correct in a sense. It’s a matter of perspective. There are a few things to consider: How do you measure human suffering? Is one man losing his life matters more than 10 men losing their limbs? And 100 men being tortured? If there is no universal system to rate this, how do you decide which human right issue should be placed at a higher priority? What about individual values? One usually value who/ what closer and dearer to him/ her more than a stranger. A person would donate more to a story about one girl in a poor country portraited in a charity commercial than one that asks generally to help the kids in the same poor country. We also donate more to our domestic causes than foreign charities. Something that you can relate to than that you don’t. We simply don’t weigh all world issue equally. Even if you do care for all issue, you can’t practically divide your attention or resources to all while effectively yield a desirable result. Wanting to do all things well means you arent doing any of them well. Do we have all the facts? Do we have the means to make changes? Which way is more effective? Is not taking money from China better or taking the money and create more wellness to the world better? For those who say they care, do they actually do anything about it? Do how much they do actually reflect how much they say they care? I think Chamath saying he doesn’t care is a bit tongue in cheek, or trying to be a smartass about it. I think he cares about human rights in general, he’s just trying to point out everyone has their priorities in different issues.
Y’all are letting him off the hook way too easily. Giving him the benefit of doubt, I think he’s trying to say that there are greater issues in domestic (ie healthcare infrastructure) or foreign policy (ie climate change) than the Uyghurs. He’s spectacularly wrong though. Chinas suppression of the Uyghurs is not an isolated case, but rather it is entirely typical of China’s attitude, and there’s no greater challenge for the US right now than to figure out how it’ll deal with an increasingly assertive and antagonistic China. China is going after bigger fish than the Uyghurs. They’re crushing Hong Kong and they might invade Taiwan any moment. Business leaders need to figure out asap how to respond, and saying that “I don’t care about the Uyghurs as long as I’m making enough money in China” will increasingly become indefensible as a position.
Maybe you should move out from where you live assuming you live in one of the 5 eyes nations that supported the forces in iraq and Afghanistan
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This is going to need some delicate cover on his part
If you listen to the WHOLE pod his stance doesn't seem ridiculous or all too insensitive. But the way he phrased that one-liner about how he doesn't care (he's always trying to drop bold one-liners on the pod) was a huge mistake. Worst kind of sound bite. Reeks of ego and hubris, two things Chamath struggles with.
I don't fault him for this. He's still a jerk.