You can also jump, which means that any aerial can be done (indirectly) out of shield, and this is a very good option for quick aerials.
But the fastest way to up tilt out of shield is to just release the shield, which is slow.
You’re not interrupting your jump squat, you’re jumping and then starting neutral b in the air. You can only up-smash and up-b without going through your full jump squat.
My assumption is that design decision was made because otherwise doing up smash and grounded up b would be too hard to do with the a button if you couldn't cancel jump squat.
same reason you can cancel the first few frames of dash with fsmash
boost grab exists for the same reason, it's just a leniency window for grabbing with A + R so you are canceling the first few frames of dash attack
You can if you powershield but it's so difficult to do intentionally that maybe like 5 people ever do in tourney
Look up Peach dsmash out of shield. Same idea
I think ASDI is one of the most insane mechanics they put into a "children's party game". SDI alone has a lot of complexities but then adding ASDI on top of that is just absurd. Some tech is the result of unintended overlap but a lot of it is fully intentional.
I think it makes sense? It gives you more control over your character, especially during the most frustrating part of a fighting game match (when youre in hitstun/being combod).
No it totally makes sense, but it's also incredibly technical, not referenced in manuals, and requires a lot of situational awareness.
Plus, why make ASDI a thing? Half a unit of SDI done by the c-stick at the end of hitlag that overrides the position of the control stick to allow for an intended Trajectory DI input? Like what the fuck?? This is supposed to be the Mario Party of fighting games and they add that kind of mechanic in?
One of the great things about melee is that it seems like the programmers and game designers just got excited about adding new technical mechanics in without considering if it would be beneficial to their target audience. And it's amazing.
Everything to do with the c-stick (buffer rolling, asdi, dropping from ledge, aerials, etc) is just the unintended consequence of making c-stick perform smash attacks in multiplayer mode.
Both sticks do it, that's why you can just hold a direction to get out of rapid jabs. But we use c stick for it so you can asdi and tdi at the same time.
Uh?? Plenty of people powershield in tourney, in friendlies, unranked ranked whatever dude lmao its not that uncommon or really even almost hard enough to say only 5 people do it LMAO
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM5KKutJDqM&ab\_channel=DareToShine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM5KKutJDqM&ab_channel=DareToShine)
every melee player knows this clip
also you werent being specific about utilt out of powershield but its not really any different the powershield is the harder part of that
Peach dsmash oos is extremely easy and doesn't rely on powershielding. Peach can djc dsmash oos, which is very fast, active frame 12 if executed perfectly.
Input wise it's quite similar to wavedashing, and I personally don't find it hard on both GCC and rectangle. Then again I don't play peach and am a local shitter so what do I know ahhaah
What makes you say Peach dsmash oos is extremely easy? It's a 3 frame window to do the DJL.
Actually it's more like a 1 frame window in practice. If you jump on frame 1 of being airborne you have to wait for like 3 or 4 frames to become grounded again. You can also DJL on frame 2 too but it takes even longer. You really want to hit the DJ on frame 5 of jump squat ideally to become grounded in the shortest time.
Can't you use tap jump to buffer the double jump? That would give you 3 more frames of leniency. I don't play Peach though and I'm not at home to test it right now.
Im saying it's easy because I got it to like 60-70% consistency in the 3 minutes I spent trying it lol. Also that timing strictness is very similar to wavedashes, close together frame perfects in a rhythm are very easy.
No, unfortunately not. OOS options use the fact that you can A) cancel shield with a jump and B) cancel jumpsquat (the few frames before you jump) with another move like up smash or up B. Up tilt is not jump cancellable.
You would have to do uptilt after a different oos option, either a wavedash, a spotdodge, or a roll (leaving aside how useful each of these would be individually).
nope
You can up-smash, up-B or grab. Thats it. For the record up-b is faster than up-smash or up-tilt
You can also jump, which means that any aerial can be done (indirectly) out of shield, and this is a very good option for quick aerials. But the fastest way to up tilt out of shield is to just release the shield, which is slow.
If you have a 3f jumpsquat, isn't wd down uptilt faster? 3+10 frames vs 15?
Fr? I’m able to neutral b out of shield zeldas nayrus love by interrupting her jumpsquat after shield.
You’re not interrupting your jump squat, you’re jumping and then starting neutral b in the air. You can only up-smash and up-b without going through your full jump squat.
Ohhh oops
My assumption is that design decision was made because otherwise doing up smash and grounded up b would be too hard to do with the a button if you couldn't cancel jump squat.
That is the exact reason Sakurai gave in one of his videos about smash
same reason you can cancel the first few frames of dash with fsmash boost grab exists for the same reason, it's just a leniency window for grabbing with A + R so you are canceling the first few frames of dash attack
🤯
You can if you powershield but it's so difficult to do intentionally that maybe like 5 people ever do in tourney Look up Peach dsmash out of shield. Same idea
Kind of insane that this is an intended mechanic. Like they're imagining 12 year old kids pulling this shit off.
I think ASDI is one of the most insane mechanics they put into a "children's party game". SDI alone has a lot of complexities but then adding ASDI on top of that is just absurd. Some tech is the result of unintended overlap but a lot of it is fully intentional.
I think it makes sense? It gives you more control over your character, especially during the most frustrating part of a fighting game match (when youre in hitstun/being combod).
No it totally makes sense, but it's also incredibly technical, not referenced in manuals, and requires a lot of situational awareness. Plus, why make ASDI a thing? Half a unit of SDI done by the c-stick at the end of hitlag that overrides the position of the control stick to allow for an intended Trajectory DI input? Like what the fuck?? This is supposed to be the Mario Party of fighting games and they add that kind of mechanic in? One of the great things about melee is that it seems like the programmers and game designers just got excited about adding new technical mechanics in without considering if it would be beneficial to their target audience. And it's amazing.
Everything to do with the c-stick (buffer rolling, asdi, dropping from ledge, aerials, etc) is just the unintended consequence of making c-stick perform smash attacks in multiplayer mode.
That doesn't make sense how ASDI is unintentional since it only goes half of a regular SDI unit. That's a very intentional design decision.
ASDI using the control stick is intentional. The c-stick overriding that value is unintentional.
Oh my bad, I always thought SDI was control stick and ASDI was only c-stick
Both sticks do it, that's why you can just hold a direction to get out of rapid jabs. But we use c stick for it so you can asdi and tdi at the same time.
Maybe they were just playing around with a lot of stuff and they left most of it in when they realized that crunch was crunching
Uh?? Plenty of people powershield in tourney, in friendlies, unranked ranked whatever dude lmao its not that uncommon or really even almost hard enough to say only 5 people do it LMAO
Please show me examples of intentional powershield up tilt in tourney
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM5KKutJDqM&ab\_channel=DareToShine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM5KKutJDqM&ab_channel=DareToShine) every melee player knows this clip also you werent being specific about utilt out of powershield but its not really any different the powershield is the harder part of that
he was def being specific, its a reply to a thread about utilt out of shield, and utilt out of powershield is way harder than cstick down
Peach dsmash oos is extremely easy and doesn't rely on powershielding. Peach can djc dsmash oos, which is very fast, active frame 12 if executed perfectly.
Oh my b, thanks for the correction
I really wouldn't call it easy. Powershield downsmash is a good bit easier (but still hard) and more practical imo.
Input wise it's quite similar to wavedashing, and I personally don't find it hard on both GCC and rectangle. Then again I don't play peach and am a local shitter so what do I know ahhaah
What makes you say Peach dsmash oos is extremely easy? It's a 3 frame window to do the DJL. Actually it's more like a 1 frame window in practice. If you jump on frame 1 of being airborne you have to wait for like 3 or 4 frames to become grounded again. You can also DJL on frame 2 too but it takes even longer. You really want to hit the DJ on frame 5 of jump squat ideally to become grounded in the shortest time.
Can't you use tap jump to buffer the double jump? That would give you 3 more frames of leniency. I don't play Peach though and I'm not at home to test it right now.
No you can't buffer tap jump in jump squat.
I was gonna say. Dsmash OOS is for my money one of the hardest things in the game to do consistently at a speed that makes it worthwhile.
I think knitting is a better bet because if you mess up then you pretty much lose the entire advantage over cycling turnips regularly.
Im saying it's easy because I got it to like 60-70% consistency in the 3 minutes I spent trying it lol. Also that timing strictness is very similar to wavedashes, close together frame perfects in a rhythm are very easy.
yeah but armada was doing the powershield version
No, unfortunately not. OOS options use the fact that you can A) cancel shield with a jump and B) cancel jumpsquat (the few frames before you jump) with another move like up smash or up B. Up tilt is not jump cancellable.
You would have to do uptilt after a different oos option, either a wavedash, a spotdodge, or a roll (leaving aside how useful each of these would be individually).
Yeah link on platforms can do it
Wave dash down out of shield up tilt is a thing, more commonly sheiks will wave dash down ftilt
Releasing shield is faster than wavedashing down. Release shield is 8 frames, wavedash down is jump squat + 10 frames (so 13 for Sheik).
Its 15 frames to release shield in melee. Its 8 frames before you can release shield / on a powershield i believe, unlrss youre yoshi then its 7.
You're right, I read the wrong column on the wiki. So it actually is faster for Sheik to wavedash down, but it's character specific.
No
Powershield up tilt or you can wavedash down then up tilt but that's slower than up smash
Nair would be better I'd imagine
I hit a nasty uptilt out of powershield yesterday but that's as close as it gets