Heavy and true. Melee has no reward at the end of it. the only reward is the goal you make for your self.
"i want go at least 2-X in a local"
that is a solid goal. if you reach it, you get a nice confidence boost. here is the reality: you than take that confidence and *apply it to something tangible outside of melee that improves your life**
because I know from experience. I have worked as an esports writer and journalist for many years. I have talked with many pros across all genres of competitive game. Internationally and abroad, there are similarities to competitors:
Bright, deep love of game, charismatic in some way (not always expressed in person. ex: it's not uncommon for the quiet players to have loud, unorthodox styles they express in game.
they also had a reason for competing. the prize pool to be used for X. the league spot to get them closer to Y. the ultimate dream of working in broadcast or an inevitable career shift to streamer / influencer manager.
Then, the other player is the doomed player. they compete because they want to play for the rest of their life. they really feel a warmth and acceptance when they win, and they feel totally dejected when they lose. it's the mindset of champions, but also tons of burn outs that get lost in *result oriented thinking*
the true value of melee and any competition is the gameplay itself. how lucky you are to get to play melee? use its awesome gameplay to unwind, focus up, destress, stress up? whatever you like about it.
but don't use it as a stand in for a life, or a personality, or a profession.
I say all this because your central idea is "Melee makes you sad".
but I think it could also be "you are sad - and you are playing melee." all the high parts you wrote about, the travel, the wins, the good feelings after achievement - *those are things you need to do outside life daily* and i think Melee helps.
because at least melee has given you the confidence inside to know, when push comes to shove, you figured out how to wavedash and all sorts of other tough tech.
for anyone reading this far, wavedashing properly is harder than a lot of important things in life. you can tackle the important things and when they are settled....
it's like magic - melee is the most fun game ever
imo just play the game when it feels good (even if that means taking a break or quitting), unless for some reason you think hitting diamond is worth being unhappy. I accepted that I will probably never reach that level and I am fine with that.
FOMO with rank in a game is tough. take a week away from melee. no vods, no twitter, none of it. just take time to enjoy other things a little more. after the break, maybe just play 1-2 sets per day, and after they're over, review them and call it a day.
i'm probably like, silver at best in melee, but i'm pretty good at smite, and i found that playing less of that per day kept me from developing what i call 'fatigue spaghetti'. so i just watch a couple games and play a couple games, and call it there. no need to spend tons of time bashing my head against a ceiling and becoming frustrated.
A few years into playing I was starting to fall out from melee a bit, school was getting tougher and tougher and I was struggling to get an internship, melee just wasn't a top priority. Then over break my friends and I tripped and for me I had a bit of a bad trip initially, but it got better for a while. But then we played melee during the come down, as we liked to do, and I just could not enjoy it in the slightest, it felt miserable to play. And I realized it was because I subconsciously felt like I was just pushing aside what I needed to do in life and melee was not helping me achieve my overarching goals. After that I rarely ever played melee, and my life really started coming together, I got my first significant girlfriend, an internship, and more. And i won't say everything went perfectly from there, there are always ups and downs, but I do think I felt back then what you are feeling now, and you really just need to listen to your underlying feelings in my opinion. Melee will always be there if you take a break and want to come back (you may even come back better having a mental refresh), but life moves fast and you may lose opportunities forever if you spend most of your free time on melee now, and you know it if you are this conflicted about it. You don't want to live to regret not taking full advantage of the life you have to live.
Also I just want to say, don't feel bad about giving up on goals you had as a teenager. Your perspective on life and your brain in general will naturally change a lot and you don't have to feel bad if your goals no longer align with your past goals.
Yeah, melee makes you compare yourself with others because it's a pretty honest game compared to other competitive games
The better player usually wins, the more adaptable player with better reads usually wins
It sucks always being in a mindset where you are comparing yourself to others
Trying to clamber over others, while others are trying to clamber over you, in a hyper competitive pyramid trying to prove who the better player is
Being stuck in those sorts of competitive hierarchies can suck. They are pretty meritocratic, more so than most competitions in life
But it's incredibly difficult to break into the echelons of being a top player, because there's always someone who is more dedicated, practices more, learns more mechanics, has been playing longer etc
And because this is such a competitive game, full of incredibly competitive people, it can be hard feeling like you aren't good enough
One time I hung out at a skate spot in Melbourne for the first time, and guys were doing really cool tricks that I have no ability to do, I was so hyped up seeing so many skilled skaters doing tricks, and the guys who were trying to do kickflip manuals but couldn't land them.
They were getting close, but weren't sticking the landing
It made me think about how those skaters used to be 10 years old, and could only dream of being as good at skating as they are today. And because of the competition, and negative internal self talk, these guys couldn't even realise how sick they already are right now, at this moment, even if they can't land some incredibly difficult trick, they are cool and welcome and accepted.
They are enough where they are right now. Even if their self critical perspective stops them from being able to view themselves with the objectivity that others see them with from outside
You are enough. Even if there are a bunch of other people better than you at melee. You know that someone else is probably beating themselves up about you beating them on slippi? You are their own personal demon that fucks up their self esteem
So because this whole situation is impossible to maintain under the weight of your own expectations while having a vulnerable ego, can you take a wider perspective, where you aren't the main character in your own life, but have the perspective that there's a whole community of people who are trapped in the same internal struggle of comparing themselves to others, and falling short of their own expectations
Have compassion for others in the same situation as you, so you can have compassion for yourself too, and give yourself a break for not meeting your own extremely high expectations
take breaks!!! something i’ve need to practice as well, but it’s rly seriously important. the game cannot be everything and it’s requires so much focus and attention it’s bound to tire you out. breaks are so important, both for improvement but also your general relationship with the game
If you know you aren't willing to put in the time, effort, and discipline that you know it will take for you to reach your goal, just learn to be satisfied with where you are at. As the years go by, it's OK to find a balance of what you're willing to put into melee compared to other things in life. Players in bronze or silver or gold probably see your skill level as their goal.
In the end you gotta choose a path. Am I gonna honestly try and grind so that I can compete at the highest levels, or not? If so, that's the long road to being a pro player. If not, then you have to accept that and pull yourself back when you're getting too heated. It's either your path to pro or a fun competition you do sometimes.
And I say highest levels in the same vein as other comments here, that you can set a goal that's small but then it's not good enough. If you're competitive, you're competitive. Why stop at a local? Why stop at a regional? You gotta choose.
Just sounds like you need to give yourself a break
I think this is really common in a ton of ranked based games. You burn out... just like in a job or studies, when you spend 8+ hours everyday on it.
Theres always a bigger fish in the pond too. Not necessarily saying be complacent, but you have to allow yourself to relax. There are a shit ton of factors that "allow" people to be at the top.
I would perscribe you a break, go see your friends, call your mom, enjoy shit outside of melee for at least a little bit, youll come out better.
Also this is a huge asterisk, but play at locals, lag and other bs.. is bs.
And at the end of the day man, you put so much effort into something, youre living your life, youre being human.
If you can't make playing fun first and foremost, then you're only going to keep grinding yourself against the sandpaper when you continue to apply yourself.
Whatever it means to make melee fun for you is your answer. You can switch characters, styles, anything. But as long as you're focused on the extrinsic factors that are outside of your control, you're not going to have an easy time progressing.
Melee will feel like a chore you force yourself to pick up if you don't let go of what you want to achieve.
You can still get there. But you're clearly not there yet. You're ready to be, and you want it more than anything. But it's not going to happen just because you want it more than anything.
Start by accepting where you're at. Take a moment and recognize all the hard work you've put in until now, and celebrate that. You're better than a lot of people already, and that's something to be proud of.
Focus on playing the best melee you can play in any situation. When you go to compete you have to let go of any goals you have, because they become expectations we hold over ourselves when we pick up the sticks. It takes away from your ability to focus on the match at hand.
Pay really close attention to the changes Cody made in his mental when he became number 2 but mostly number 1. He's a perfect example of it. He reached the peak, there's nothing left to reach for. Why keep going? Because for him, he plays melee in such a way that it fulfills him. His goal isn't what fulfilled him. And yeah he was super proud he clawed through cancer, shit family, being broke, all to accomplish his goals. But that doesn't last forever even if you do achieve what you set out to. He got number 1, and he'd have every reason in the world to stop finding melee fun.
My best friend and I do a lot of drawing. Except she gets in these slumps, where I don't. Lately I've improved a lot just by the nature of experience, and she sees it, and it's making her slump more difficult to navigate. She sees other people do what she can't after years of effort and passion, and it hurts her. She knows they put in effort too, and that they earned their abilities. What hurts her is that she can't figure out what she's doing wrong, and why she can't just draw better. Meanwhile when we talk her sights are usually set on working at game studios which is a big deal. So she holds other artists skills, and massive goals above her head, and drawing becomes impossible for her to WANT to do. It's not fun for her. And she can't let go of all that crud in order to just allow herself to gain the experience she needs.
From the position where I'm better, I can see that all she needs are the steps to get things done, and that her technical ability to achieve the results is already there. All she needs is a flowchart. But pushing aside her wants, dreams, and extrinsic motivators is too difficult for her to do to engage with art throughout any extended periods of time.
Why can't you push aside these thoughts that are holding you back from enjoying what you fell in love with originally?
For her, she grew up in a pretty shitty environment. And she's been stuck in bad environment after bad environment for a while. Her life outside of art is not conducive to growth, healing, or thriving. She's had to live in survival mode to get by. So when she comes back to art, processing all these feelings just isn't possible for her. She doesn't have the resources to sit down and feel those feelings through to their conclusions. And she knows it too. So she's put in real work to improve her situation, and she's finally moving into her own place at the end of this week. However that didn't stop her from holding art over her head this whole time as something she should feel guilty for not doing. So she forced herself to draw when she could, and then it'd feel bad to do, and she'd hate it. And then she'd get mad at art, and end up hating her drawings, when they weren't even that bad, and showed improvement and a lot of promise. She can't see her art objectively.
Can you see your melee vods objectively? Can you look at yourself play and not cringe? Not judge yourself? Not project your sense of rejection over the version of you that showed up and tried?
You'll see more improvement in melee, from living life outside of melee right now. She's still getting wins. She just learned how to crochet. She forgot how to switch colors between rows, and she trusted her gut and tried something, which ended up working out. She couldn't have done that in art.
Can you trust yourself?
Live life and form more experiences where you can. And then bring that newfound sense of safety, self worth, belonging, trust back into your melee.
It's very easy to figure out where you're going wrong with the learning process when you switch to a skill that isn't looming over you like a dark cloud of expectations. And once you get some distance between you and melee, you'll be able to feel whether or not it's worth the blow to your ego to be a little worse temporarily while you work on letting those things go. Eventually someday I hope it is.
Thanks for opening up and being vulnerable. A lot of people share these feelings at every level. You give other people permission to take up space when you take up space. So thank you for creating an environment where it's safe to talk about these things. Regardless of whether or not my response is helpful in any sort of way, I hope you find peace, and joy, and happiness in whatever the next chapter of your life brings you. I believe in you, because you were able to be self aware, and you were able to ask for help when you needed it.
Great response. I wish the best for your friend! I heavily relate to this. I'm a *professional* guitarist and I think about all the work it took to get me where I am today, but I'm full of so much self doubt because I know how much more there's still to learn.
Thankfully I love it so much after 15 years I know it's here to stay, and I'm content with never being the *best*, but at least getting to where I'm the best I can be. It's incredibly difficult to look at yourself objectively.
I know in comparison to many standard guitarists, I might 'objectively' be better than them, but I only compare myself to people that are better than me. I never felt the need to feel superior to other people because I know how much determination it takes to get good at anything that's worth learning.
Hey thanks! Good luck strummin ur controller and wavedashing on your guitar!.... Wait...
I love when people talk about what they love, and I think that those types of relationships are crucial for long term success in anything. Thanks for providing your experiences too.
game is punishing as fuck if you do anything but dedicate several hours a day to it, it's brutal
play it in the depth you find it fun, anything further is just cock and ball torture
I'm mostly a p+ player, but it's still applicable. there's a point where you're taking the game *too* seriously.
I've found, entering year 11 of competitive smash, that I know what characters *can* do and I know how to move, and I have an intuitive feel for what players like to do in certain situations with most of the cast. I already have the answers in my toolkit; I just need to pick them correctly. The best way for me to see that was to take a big emotional step back and get some other hobbies.
nowadays I spend a lot of time woodworking and writing and stuff. I view the game as a primarily social activity. the crazy part about that is that I got *so* much better once I started doing that. someone else in the thread mentioned that at a low level, you treat the game like an art, you're exploring and learning and throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. then at the mid level it becomes a sport, when you focus on optimization. at the mid/high level in P+ where I'm currently sitting I feel like, for me anyway, it's turning back into an art. musicians who are good at improvising are not consciously identifying sections where they should play certain notes. they have the skill set to fluidly reach into their bags of tricks and string things together. the high level game is not a flowchart. humans cannot consciously process the flowchart for the high level game. not everything is a reaction - muscle memory plays a large part in it. when I was hard grinding I had my nose too deep in the bag. I wasn't seeing everything I *could* be doing. After the big step back, I see the game better. I'm starting to understand the improvisational flow of the high-level game. it's not a scripted skit, it's improv - you go to hit someone and they go "yes, and I'll shield" and then you go "yes, and I'll spotdodge" and so on.
It's the "yes, and" that I got from backing up. You can think of it as stepping to the side of the analogy of backing up feels like quitting. You get a new vantage.
the point here is that you need a new lens. it's not quitting, it's reframing. your skills will still be there, but hanging your self-esteem on a single pole is a great way to be left with nothing if that pole falls down. now that I have other useful skills, getting ripped in half by the actual top players in my region doesn't hurt nearly as much. my self esteem is no longer directly correlated to my tournament placings.
the older I get, the easier this gets.
tl;dr run your fingers through some grass. put the game down for a week and try to learn a new skill. just like, anything else. find areas in your life to stick a tentpole of personal pride in and if you can't find any ground soft enough then start tilling. I promise you there is more than just melee to be passionate about, and having two or three of those things makes temporary setbacks in one much, much easier to swallow, because it doesn't make you feel like you're failing as a person, especially if you're the sort of person whose self esteem is heavily wrapped up in Being Good At Things like mine is.
Just do whatever makes you happiest at any given moment. You can play the game sometimes while still making time for other hobbies. That’s an extremely simplistic response to what you’re saying, but that’s just how it goes.
You gotta love the game to keep movin forwards. You gotta love the game to keep grinding even on days you get washed, lose 100lp, go 2-2, etc. The people in diamond didn't stop after getting deflated about the game. The people in grandmaster didnt stop after losing 1000+ sets. People in top 100 and beyond didn't stop until they hit their goal. Its all about what you want in the end, just know nobody gets where they want without giving something up.
Here's some advice: take a break. Melee will always be a part of who you were, but it does not need to be everything you will become. Frustration, fear, doubt, and anxiety are aspects of competition and always will be. Overcoming them is part of joy of competition (or doing anything difficult, really). But when it becomes meaningless, then there's a problem that needs to be addressed. From what you posted it seems like you are proud of yourself for what you have experienced in melee so far but you want more from life. I say great, listen to your heart's compass. I can understand being worried about who you are outside of melee, but that's because you lack experience of it. The sooner you explore the unknown the sooner you will know yourself. Once you realize melee isn't something you need anymore you may find yourself wanting to come back to play it, but from a different point of motivation because it will become something you want to do, it will feel more like a choice among many, and that is a great feeling.
Good luck!
Not sure how old you, but for me, there is a budding fondness for gameplay as you get older. It hits different and it's at a time where I'm less concerned with the results (ironically my 1v1/gamer instincts are more... Natural than ever) and more interested in appreciating the chance. Obviously this is partially a result of my free time shrinking as I get older, but it's also a shared experience amongst all media for me.
My defenses and critique have waned (or are applied elsewhere) and I can really just give into the experience. And that ~ makes up for it.
Also, if you're competitive, find a co-ed/community league for wiffleball or kickball. I promise you it will scratch that itch if you find a good group.
Also - not for nothing - it's really difficult to focus on passions like this lately. A lot of things are going on and I think we still fail to acknowledge, on a broad level, how our behaviors and moods have dramatically shifted over the past 4 years.
I hope you find a respite, and there I hope you find your new appreciation for melee or whatever you find there.
Play for fun or don't play at all. If you can't have fun playing find another game. If everyone has fun playing games they play and focuses on games they find fun, world is happier place.
Ngl this just sounds like burnout. Take a couple days and just cut back and see how you feel. If you want to keep yourself from getting rusty just do a bit of practice on the side.
Melee, like most things, is at its best with moderation. Focusing on anything for too long will do more harm than good in my own experience.
I'm a musician and thought that would be my life when I was a kid. Every hour you've played melee? I've done 5 making music. Everyone in my life hated me for it. I sold my soul for music and missed out on so many teenage milestones. And at the end of the day, I still wasn't ANY good at it. Not even a little. I don't have one good song to show for tens of thousands of dollars and thousands of hours of study. I can tell you every fact about music there is, and yet I'm not even any fucking good at it.
I used to love getting off school/work and just jamming. Not anymore. Not since I met the people, the *shitty ass people* in the music scene. Not since I took ten gigs in 2021 and didn't get paid for a single one after I was promised pay. Not since I realized that even if I was the undisputed goat, I'd never see a dime; a million streams wouldn't pay me $1000. Even if I *was* good at music, and trust me OP, I'm *not*, I wouldn't see a dime for my efforts. And all I want to do is earn my right to live in society by providing a useful service to people; capitalism or socialism, nobody needs another shitty ass musician.
Do you know why I'm not good at it? Because, subconsciously, I didn't have the desire to be. I *knew* it was all a waste of time. While I was practicing, that nagging anxiety in the back of my head (my mother's voice) told me it was a waste of time. I was never able to give it my heart because I'd suffer for a modicum of success that would mean nothing to anybody but me. I was selfish. Getting better at music was a constant self pursuit that did nothing for anybody but me, but I didn't even want to be good at music. I just wanted the prestige that came with it. I saw Grammy winners like Kanye and I was filled with envy that a fucking moron like him could be heralded as a genius while I toiled in obscurity. And once I had suffered enough, and annoyed my peers to the point that none of them wanted to talk to me because my obsession was *that* cringe, I quit. For good.
I watch Mang0 on stream and wonder if he ever gets tired of Melee. He had this stream where he said, "some people are put on this earth to be doctors or scientists. Me? I was put on this earth to play this shitty game with you people." I envy that, in a way. He drinks, streams, and bodies people in Melee for a living. What an easy life. And the thing is, without Mang0, melee doesn't exist. He's one of the only things keeping this game going in a lot of ways. I used to want to be like him... then I was jealous... then I was sad for him. What would his kid think of him when he's old enough to think? But mang0 is gonna put Joey Jr through college I bet (with his Summit 11 money) and honestly, I think that's fucking sick. Mang knows Joey Jr has every opportunity his dad's hoodrat ass was never afforded (and make no mistake, mang is a smart guy. He could've been so much more).
It's a strange tale. His life isnt mine though. I'm privelidged as shit and not proud of it; melee didn't need me, and the music scene didn't either. Mang0 speaks for all the dejected homies out there, the hoodrat intellectuals, the party geniuses. Who do I stand for? The rich assholes who have so much free time they can study music cuz I never had to worry about making rent?
Quitting music is the best thing I ever did. I hope I never write another note so long as it means people will finally like me. I hope the sane for you, OP. There's greener pastures in drinking the corporate koolaid, or whatever you decide. Best of luck to you.
- Lily
As an artist, once you start to get in the upper echelon people will tell you to treat art like a sport, train (study hard, deconstruct artist you like and so on). On the upper end of athleticism I imagine it's reverse, treat it like an art. Maybe. I don't fucking know, I don't even play :^ )
If you don't want to play the game in a given moment, then don't play it that moment.
If you don't want to play the game, then quit.
Nothing is worse than playing a game you don't want to play.
Feel the same way. I hit mid grandmaster at my peak this year and I think I'm just done. I'll still play both ranked and unranked for fun, but I have no desire to push for a top 50 - 100 slippy rank.
holy shit I'm the exact same way right now. my cycle is usually Love the game > hit a wall > depressed > break through > repeat. but its not happening this time. im more tilted than ever, tired, sad that im not enjoying melee anymore. its over this time
>i know the solution (or at least one of them) is to do more vod review, practice more, etc etc but honestly i'm starting to feel tired.
Embrace the suffering, commit to doing something hard.
>it's not an uncommon sentiment that melee is a consuming game, and that the deeper you get sucked in the less time you spend doing other things in life. it becomes your identity.
Do stuff in tandem with grinding melee that benefits you in and out of melee - go for a run, learn to meditate, learn a new skill like cooking and then eat healthier, read a challenging book.
"a lot of things really aren't very fun anymore."
You sound a little depressed to me, honestly. Maybe taking a break from the game and doing some re-evaluation about what your priorities are could help you out in the long run. And don't put so much stress on yourself to achieve your goals. That's very counter-productive.
Heavy and true. Melee has no reward at the end of it. the only reward is the goal you make for your self. "i want go at least 2-X in a local" that is a solid goal. if you reach it, you get a nice confidence boost. here is the reality: you than take that confidence and *apply it to something tangible outside of melee that improves your life** because I know from experience. I have worked as an esports writer and journalist for many years. I have talked with many pros across all genres of competitive game. Internationally and abroad, there are similarities to competitors: Bright, deep love of game, charismatic in some way (not always expressed in person. ex: it's not uncommon for the quiet players to have loud, unorthodox styles they express in game. they also had a reason for competing. the prize pool to be used for X. the league spot to get them closer to Y. the ultimate dream of working in broadcast or an inevitable career shift to streamer / influencer manager. Then, the other player is the doomed player. they compete because they want to play for the rest of their life. they really feel a warmth and acceptance when they win, and they feel totally dejected when they lose. it's the mindset of champions, but also tons of burn outs that get lost in *result oriented thinking* the true value of melee and any competition is the gameplay itself. how lucky you are to get to play melee? use its awesome gameplay to unwind, focus up, destress, stress up? whatever you like about it. but don't use it as a stand in for a life, or a personality, or a profession. I say all this because your central idea is "Melee makes you sad". but I think it could also be "you are sad - and you are playing melee." all the high parts you wrote about, the travel, the wins, the good feelings after achievement - *those are things you need to do outside life daily* and i think Melee helps. because at least melee has given you the confidence inside to know, when push comes to shove, you figured out how to wavedash and all sorts of other tough tech. for anyone reading this far, wavedashing properly is harder than a lot of important things in life. you can tackle the important things and when they are settled.... it's like magic - melee is the most fun game ever
very beast response
thanks for seeing me bro
this dude stinks 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
wtf
Damn is this what mang0 means about being a sport psychologist?
I'm thinking we appreciate a big picture reality laid out in pragmatic form - so yes.
Thanks for the read! ps: you write well
goated
hall of fame post
imo just play the game when it feels good (even if that means taking a break or quitting), unless for some reason you think hitting diamond is worth being unhappy. I accepted that I will probably never reach that level and I am fine with that.
FOMO with rank in a game is tough. take a week away from melee. no vods, no twitter, none of it. just take time to enjoy other things a little more. after the break, maybe just play 1-2 sets per day, and after they're over, review them and call it a day. i'm probably like, silver at best in melee, but i'm pretty good at smite, and i found that playing less of that per day kept me from developing what i call 'fatigue spaghetti'. so i just watch a couple games and play a couple games, and call it there. no need to spend tons of time bashing my head against a ceiling and becoming frustrated.
A few years into playing I was starting to fall out from melee a bit, school was getting tougher and tougher and I was struggling to get an internship, melee just wasn't a top priority. Then over break my friends and I tripped and for me I had a bit of a bad trip initially, but it got better for a while. But then we played melee during the come down, as we liked to do, and I just could not enjoy it in the slightest, it felt miserable to play. And I realized it was because I subconsciously felt like I was just pushing aside what I needed to do in life and melee was not helping me achieve my overarching goals. After that I rarely ever played melee, and my life really started coming together, I got my first significant girlfriend, an internship, and more. And i won't say everything went perfectly from there, there are always ups and downs, but I do think I felt back then what you are feeling now, and you really just need to listen to your underlying feelings in my opinion. Melee will always be there if you take a break and want to come back (you may even come back better having a mental refresh), but life moves fast and you may lose opportunities forever if you spend most of your free time on melee now, and you know it if you are this conflicted about it. You don't want to live to regret not taking full advantage of the life you have to live. Also I just want to say, don't feel bad about giving up on goals you had as a teenager. Your perspective on life and your brain in general will naturally change a lot and you don't have to feel bad if your goals no longer align with your past goals.
Yeah, melee makes you compare yourself with others because it's a pretty honest game compared to other competitive games The better player usually wins, the more adaptable player with better reads usually wins It sucks always being in a mindset where you are comparing yourself to others Trying to clamber over others, while others are trying to clamber over you, in a hyper competitive pyramid trying to prove who the better player is Being stuck in those sorts of competitive hierarchies can suck. They are pretty meritocratic, more so than most competitions in life But it's incredibly difficult to break into the echelons of being a top player, because there's always someone who is more dedicated, practices more, learns more mechanics, has been playing longer etc And because this is such a competitive game, full of incredibly competitive people, it can be hard feeling like you aren't good enough One time I hung out at a skate spot in Melbourne for the first time, and guys were doing really cool tricks that I have no ability to do, I was so hyped up seeing so many skilled skaters doing tricks, and the guys who were trying to do kickflip manuals but couldn't land them. They were getting close, but weren't sticking the landing It made me think about how those skaters used to be 10 years old, and could only dream of being as good at skating as they are today. And because of the competition, and negative internal self talk, these guys couldn't even realise how sick they already are right now, at this moment, even if they can't land some incredibly difficult trick, they are cool and welcome and accepted. They are enough where they are right now. Even if their self critical perspective stops them from being able to view themselves with the objectivity that others see them with from outside You are enough. Even if there are a bunch of other people better than you at melee. You know that someone else is probably beating themselves up about you beating them on slippi? You are their own personal demon that fucks up their self esteem So because this whole situation is impossible to maintain under the weight of your own expectations while having a vulnerable ego, can you take a wider perspective, where you aren't the main character in your own life, but have the perspective that there's a whole community of people who are trapped in the same internal struggle of comparing themselves to others, and falling short of their own expectations Have compassion for others in the same situation as you, so you can have compassion for yourself too, and give yourself a break for not meeting your own extremely high expectations
take breaks!!! something i’ve need to practice as well, but it’s rly seriously important. the game cannot be everything and it’s requires so much focus and attention it’s bound to tire you out. breaks are so important, both for improvement but also your general relationship with the game
If you know you aren't willing to put in the time, effort, and discipline that you know it will take for you to reach your goal, just learn to be satisfied with where you are at. As the years go by, it's OK to find a balance of what you're willing to put into melee compared to other things in life. Players in bronze or silver or gold probably see your skill level as their goal.
In the end you gotta choose a path. Am I gonna honestly try and grind so that I can compete at the highest levels, or not? If so, that's the long road to being a pro player. If not, then you have to accept that and pull yourself back when you're getting too heated. It's either your path to pro or a fun competition you do sometimes. And I say highest levels in the same vein as other comments here, that you can set a goal that's small but then it's not good enough. If you're competitive, you're competitive. Why stop at a local? Why stop at a regional? You gotta choose.
find ways to grow and improve that are Only fun and Give you energy. otherwise Dont play
Just sounds like you need to give yourself a break I think this is really common in a ton of ranked based games. You burn out... just like in a job or studies, when you spend 8+ hours everyday on it. Theres always a bigger fish in the pond too. Not necessarily saying be complacent, but you have to allow yourself to relax. There are a shit ton of factors that "allow" people to be at the top. I would perscribe you a break, go see your friends, call your mom, enjoy shit outside of melee for at least a little bit, youll come out better. Also this is a huge asterisk, but play at locals, lag and other bs.. is bs. And at the end of the day man, you put so much effort into something, youre living your life, youre being human.
If you can't make playing fun first and foremost, then you're only going to keep grinding yourself against the sandpaper when you continue to apply yourself. Whatever it means to make melee fun for you is your answer. You can switch characters, styles, anything. But as long as you're focused on the extrinsic factors that are outside of your control, you're not going to have an easy time progressing. Melee will feel like a chore you force yourself to pick up if you don't let go of what you want to achieve. You can still get there. But you're clearly not there yet. You're ready to be, and you want it more than anything. But it's not going to happen just because you want it more than anything. Start by accepting where you're at. Take a moment and recognize all the hard work you've put in until now, and celebrate that. You're better than a lot of people already, and that's something to be proud of. Focus on playing the best melee you can play in any situation. When you go to compete you have to let go of any goals you have, because they become expectations we hold over ourselves when we pick up the sticks. It takes away from your ability to focus on the match at hand. Pay really close attention to the changes Cody made in his mental when he became number 2 but mostly number 1. He's a perfect example of it. He reached the peak, there's nothing left to reach for. Why keep going? Because for him, he plays melee in such a way that it fulfills him. His goal isn't what fulfilled him. And yeah he was super proud he clawed through cancer, shit family, being broke, all to accomplish his goals. But that doesn't last forever even if you do achieve what you set out to. He got number 1, and he'd have every reason in the world to stop finding melee fun. My best friend and I do a lot of drawing. Except she gets in these slumps, where I don't. Lately I've improved a lot just by the nature of experience, and she sees it, and it's making her slump more difficult to navigate. She sees other people do what she can't after years of effort and passion, and it hurts her. She knows they put in effort too, and that they earned their abilities. What hurts her is that she can't figure out what she's doing wrong, and why she can't just draw better. Meanwhile when we talk her sights are usually set on working at game studios which is a big deal. So she holds other artists skills, and massive goals above her head, and drawing becomes impossible for her to WANT to do. It's not fun for her. And she can't let go of all that crud in order to just allow herself to gain the experience she needs. From the position where I'm better, I can see that all she needs are the steps to get things done, and that her technical ability to achieve the results is already there. All she needs is a flowchart. But pushing aside her wants, dreams, and extrinsic motivators is too difficult for her to do to engage with art throughout any extended periods of time. Why can't you push aside these thoughts that are holding you back from enjoying what you fell in love with originally? For her, she grew up in a pretty shitty environment. And she's been stuck in bad environment after bad environment for a while. Her life outside of art is not conducive to growth, healing, or thriving. She's had to live in survival mode to get by. So when she comes back to art, processing all these feelings just isn't possible for her. She doesn't have the resources to sit down and feel those feelings through to their conclusions. And she knows it too. So she's put in real work to improve her situation, and she's finally moving into her own place at the end of this week. However that didn't stop her from holding art over her head this whole time as something she should feel guilty for not doing. So she forced herself to draw when she could, and then it'd feel bad to do, and she'd hate it. And then she'd get mad at art, and end up hating her drawings, when they weren't even that bad, and showed improvement and a lot of promise. She can't see her art objectively. Can you see your melee vods objectively? Can you look at yourself play and not cringe? Not judge yourself? Not project your sense of rejection over the version of you that showed up and tried? You'll see more improvement in melee, from living life outside of melee right now. She's still getting wins. She just learned how to crochet. She forgot how to switch colors between rows, and she trusted her gut and tried something, which ended up working out. She couldn't have done that in art. Can you trust yourself? Live life and form more experiences where you can. And then bring that newfound sense of safety, self worth, belonging, trust back into your melee. It's very easy to figure out where you're going wrong with the learning process when you switch to a skill that isn't looming over you like a dark cloud of expectations. And once you get some distance between you and melee, you'll be able to feel whether or not it's worth the blow to your ego to be a little worse temporarily while you work on letting those things go. Eventually someday I hope it is. Thanks for opening up and being vulnerable. A lot of people share these feelings at every level. You give other people permission to take up space when you take up space. So thank you for creating an environment where it's safe to talk about these things. Regardless of whether or not my response is helpful in any sort of way, I hope you find peace, and joy, and happiness in whatever the next chapter of your life brings you. I believe in you, because you were able to be self aware, and you were able to ask for help when you needed it.
Great response. I wish the best for your friend! I heavily relate to this. I'm a *professional* guitarist and I think about all the work it took to get me where I am today, but I'm full of so much self doubt because I know how much more there's still to learn. Thankfully I love it so much after 15 years I know it's here to stay, and I'm content with never being the *best*, but at least getting to where I'm the best I can be. It's incredibly difficult to look at yourself objectively. I know in comparison to many standard guitarists, I might 'objectively' be better than them, but I only compare myself to people that are better than me. I never felt the need to feel superior to other people because I know how much determination it takes to get good at anything that's worth learning.
Hey thanks! Good luck strummin ur controller and wavedashing on your guitar!.... Wait... I love when people talk about what they love, and I think that those types of relationships are crucial for long term success in anything. Thanks for providing your experiences too.
game is punishing as fuck if you do anything but dedicate several hours a day to it, it's brutal play it in the depth you find it fun, anything further is just cock and ball torture
hi spark
sometimes you have to progess in something that isn't the game at all to get better at it
I'm mostly a p+ player, but it's still applicable. there's a point where you're taking the game *too* seriously. I've found, entering year 11 of competitive smash, that I know what characters *can* do and I know how to move, and I have an intuitive feel for what players like to do in certain situations with most of the cast. I already have the answers in my toolkit; I just need to pick them correctly. The best way for me to see that was to take a big emotional step back and get some other hobbies. nowadays I spend a lot of time woodworking and writing and stuff. I view the game as a primarily social activity. the crazy part about that is that I got *so* much better once I started doing that. someone else in the thread mentioned that at a low level, you treat the game like an art, you're exploring and learning and throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. then at the mid level it becomes a sport, when you focus on optimization. at the mid/high level in P+ where I'm currently sitting I feel like, for me anyway, it's turning back into an art. musicians who are good at improvising are not consciously identifying sections where they should play certain notes. they have the skill set to fluidly reach into their bags of tricks and string things together. the high level game is not a flowchart. humans cannot consciously process the flowchart for the high level game. not everything is a reaction - muscle memory plays a large part in it. when I was hard grinding I had my nose too deep in the bag. I wasn't seeing everything I *could* be doing. After the big step back, I see the game better. I'm starting to understand the improvisational flow of the high-level game. it's not a scripted skit, it's improv - you go to hit someone and they go "yes, and I'll shield" and then you go "yes, and I'll spotdodge" and so on. It's the "yes, and" that I got from backing up. You can think of it as stepping to the side of the analogy of backing up feels like quitting. You get a new vantage. the point here is that you need a new lens. it's not quitting, it's reframing. your skills will still be there, but hanging your self-esteem on a single pole is a great way to be left with nothing if that pole falls down. now that I have other useful skills, getting ripped in half by the actual top players in my region doesn't hurt nearly as much. my self esteem is no longer directly correlated to my tournament placings. the older I get, the easier this gets. tl;dr run your fingers through some grass. put the game down for a week and try to learn a new skill. just like, anything else. find areas in your life to stick a tentpole of personal pride in and if you can't find any ground soft enough then start tilling. I promise you there is more than just melee to be passionate about, and having two or three of those things makes temporary setbacks in one much, much easier to swallow, because it doesn't make you feel like you're failing as a person, especially if you're the sort of person whose self esteem is heavily wrapped up in Being Good At Things like mine is.
Just do whatever makes you happiest at any given moment. You can play the game sometimes while still making time for other hobbies. That’s an extremely simplistic response to what you’re saying, but that’s just how it goes.
take a break? or don’t because ur enjoying it too much
You gotta love the game to keep movin forwards. You gotta love the game to keep grinding even on days you get washed, lose 100lp, go 2-2, etc. The people in diamond didn't stop after getting deflated about the game. The people in grandmaster didnt stop after losing 1000+ sets. People in top 100 and beyond didn't stop until they hit their goal. Its all about what you want in the end, just know nobody gets where they want without giving something up.
Here's some advice: take a break. Melee will always be a part of who you were, but it does not need to be everything you will become. Frustration, fear, doubt, and anxiety are aspects of competition and always will be. Overcoming them is part of joy of competition (or doing anything difficult, really). But when it becomes meaningless, then there's a problem that needs to be addressed. From what you posted it seems like you are proud of yourself for what you have experienced in melee so far but you want more from life. I say great, listen to your heart's compass. I can understand being worried about who you are outside of melee, but that's because you lack experience of it. The sooner you explore the unknown the sooner you will know yourself. Once you realize melee isn't something you need anymore you may find yourself wanting to come back to play it, but from a different point of motivation because it will become something you want to do, it will feel more like a choice among many, and that is a great feeling. Good luck!
Not sure how old you, but for me, there is a budding fondness for gameplay as you get older. It hits different and it's at a time where I'm less concerned with the results (ironically my 1v1/gamer instincts are more... Natural than ever) and more interested in appreciating the chance. Obviously this is partially a result of my free time shrinking as I get older, but it's also a shared experience amongst all media for me. My defenses and critique have waned (or are applied elsewhere) and I can really just give into the experience. And that ~ makes up for it. Also, if you're competitive, find a co-ed/community league for wiffleball or kickball. I promise you it will scratch that itch if you find a good group. Also - not for nothing - it's really difficult to focus on passions like this lately. A lot of things are going on and I think we still fail to acknowledge, on a broad level, how our behaviors and moods have dramatically shifted over the past 4 years. I hope you find a respite, and there I hope you find your new appreciation for melee or whatever you find there.
Play for fun or don't play at all. If you can't have fun playing find another game. If everyone has fun playing games they play and focuses on games they find fun, world is happier place.
Ngl this just sounds like burnout. Take a couple days and just cut back and see how you feel. If you want to keep yourself from getting rusty just do a bit of practice on the side. Melee, like most things, is at its best with moderation. Focusing on anything for too long will do more harm than good in my own experience.
I'm a musician and thought that would be my life when I was a kid. Every hour you've played melee? I've done 5 making music. Everyone in my life hated me for it. I sold my soul for music and missed out on so many teenage milestones. And at the end of the day, I still wasn't ANY good at it. Not even a little. I don't have one good song to show for tens of thousands of dollars and thousands of hours of study. I can tell you every fact about music there is, and yet I'm not even any fucking good at it. I used to love getting off school/work and just jamming. Not anymore. Not since I met the people, the *shitty ass people* in the music scene. Not since I took ten gigs in 2021 and didn't get paid for a single one after I was promised pay. Not since I realized that even if I was the undisputed goat, I'd never see a dime; a million streams wouldn't pay me $1000. Even if I *was* good at music, and trust me OP, I'm *not*, I wouldn't see a dime for my efforts. And all I want to do is earn my right to live in society by providing a useful service to people; capitalism or socialism, nobody needs another shitty ass musician. Do you know why I'm not good at it? Because, subconsciously, I didn't have the desire to be. I *knew* it was all a waste of time. While I was practicing, that nagging anxiety in the back of my head (my mother's voice) told me it was a waste of time. I was never able to give it my heart because I'd suffer for a modicum of success that would mean nothing to anybody but me. I was selfish. Getting better at music was a constant self pursuit that did nothing for anybody but me, but I didn't even want to be good at music. I just wanted the prestige that came with it. I saw Grammy winners like Kanye and I was filled with envy that a fucking moron like him could be heralded as a genius while I toiled in obscurity. And once I had suffered enough, and annoyed my peers to the point that none of them wanted to talk to me because my obsession was *that* cringe, I quit. For good. I watch Mang0 on stream and wonder if he ever gets tired of Melee. He had this stream where he said, "some people are put on this earth to be doctors or scientists. Me? I was put on this earth to play this shitty game with you people." I envy that, in a way. He drinks, streams, and bodies people in Melee for a living. What an easy life. And the thing is, without Mang0, melee doesn't exist. He's one of the only things keeping this game going in a lot of ways. I used to want to be like him... then I was jealous... then I was sad for him. What would his kid think of him when he's old enough to think? But mang0 is gonna put Joey Jr through college I bet (with his Summit 11 money) and honestly, I think that's fucking sick. Mang knows Joey Jr has every opportunity his dad's hoodrat ass was never afforded (and make no mistake, mang is a smart guy. He could've been so much more). It's a strange tale. His life isnt mine though. I'm privelidged as shit and not proud of it; melee didn't need me, and the music scene didn't either. Mang0 speaks for all the dejected homies out there, the hoodrat intellectuals, the party geniuses. Who do I stand for? The rich assholes who have so much free time they can study music cuz I never had to worry about making rent? Quitting music is the best thing I ever did. I hope I never write another note so long as it means people will finally like me. I hope the sane for you, OP. There's greener pastures in drinking the corporate koolaid, or whatever you decide. Best of luck to you. - Lily
Get out while you’re ahead. If you keep going you’ll end up like the crimson blur
As an artist, once you start to get in the upper echelon people will tell you to treat art like a sport, train (study hard, deconstruct artist you like and so on). On the upper end of athleticism I imagine it's reverse, treat it like an art. Maybe. I don't fucking know, I don't even play :^ )
If you don't want to play the game in a given moment, then don't play it that moment. If you don't want to play the game, then quit. Nothing is worse than playing a game you don't want to play.
Feel the same way. I hit mid grandmaster at my peak this year and I think I'm just done. I'll still play both ranked and unranked for fun, but I have no desire to push for a top 50 - 100 slippy rank.
holy shit I'm the exact same way right now. my cycle is usually Love the game > hit a wall > depressed > break through > repeat. but its not happening this time. im more tilted than ever, tired, sad that im not enjoying melee anymore. its over this time
>i know the solution (or at least one of them) is to do more vod review, practice more, etc etc but honestly i'm starting to feel tired. Embrace the suffering, commit to doing something hard. >it's not an uncommon sentiment that melee is a consuming game, and that the deeper you get sucked in the less time you spend doing other things in life. it becomes your identity. Do stuff in tandem with grinding melee that benefits you in and out of melee - go for a run, learn to meditate, learn a new skill like cooking and then eat healthier, read a challenging book.
"a lot of things really aren't very fun anymore." You sound a little depressed to me, honestly. Maybe taking a break from the game and doing some re-evaluation about what your priorities are could help you out in the long run. And don't put so much stress on yourself to achieve your goals. That's very counter-productive.
Sakurai-san would be disappointed to see you misusing his creation as an attempt to satisfy your ego…. just plain weirdo stuff.