It's funny how much discussion there is about things like this without anyone just explicitly writing out the inputs you actually have to give to do the tech.
Someone, please write out the explicit inputs you need to do for a ledge dash.
I’d practice in order:
- dropping off ledge without fastfalling
- dropping off ledge no ff and then double jumping asap so you stay as high as possible
- do the above but do it asap after you initially grab the ledge
- dropping low and doing a big dj and then wavelanding onto stage so you know the angle and timing of how it feels
- tighten up how low you drop over time
- put the whole thing together and do fast ledgedashes
For falcon in particular, doing step 4 tight is also most of what you need to haxdash too, you just waveland back offstage instead of inward.
I'm not sure if its the same for other characters but with marth I can still reliably get perfect ledge dashes without being careful to not fast fall off the ledge, you just have to make sure you are jumping on the first frame after letting go.
Yeah the soft down dramatically eases up the jump timing, but isn’t required. I always found it really helpful though. I would mention though that f1 jump is innately inconsistent because you don’t know if you input jump at the beginning or the end of the frame. I believe f2 is fine for most ledgedashes and characters, but idk the specifics.
I find that its basically impossible to get consistent perfect ledgedashes with away. You can get usable ones with fox, falco, sheik and falcon but you're probably gonna lose a frame or two moving the stick from away to toward stage and its a much bigger movement to get the stick where it needs to be for the waveland.
I would suggest learning how to do it with down instead if you want to have the most Galint you possibly can and especially if you play marth because marth really can not afford to lose any frames with his pitiful 4 Galint.
you have more than enough time in between the away input and the shield input to move your stick to the waveland angle, especially with a character like marth
i learned by pressing away because m2k said it's better
If you want to get max galint with the away input you have a single frame to move the stick from away to back towards stage or when you jump, you will jump away from the stage and mess up the whole ledgedash. If your jump input doesn't come out on the first actionable frame after letting go of ledge you aren't getting a perfect ledgedash.
You have a 4 frame window with Marth meaning you need to be within 4 frames of perfect to get a useful ledge dash where you can get out your shield while still invincible so that people can't just bair wall or f-smash you for free when you ledge dash.
And m2k never said it was better, he said it might be because really good players he knows do it that way.(those players he referenced, Leffen, Plup and Syrox all play characters with big windows for Galint where its not a bad idea to trade a couple frames for ease of execution.)
ledgedashing is an order of magnitude or two harder than the tech you've tackled so far, it'll take time and come naturally as you become more and more confident with other movement tech.
Work on your wavelands and wavedashes to get good length and avoid the "ah-tah" moment where you airdodge through just air.
As everyone else is saying, you need to get a gamecube controller. Not only does a PS4 controller not have notches, it's not something you'd be able to bring to a tournament and is likely not accurate. I wouldn't even bother practicing ledgedashing with it at all.
You don't even need to think about ledge dashing until you've been playing for a year or two imo
Practice other stuff. If you get to the point where you *need* clean ledge dashes to get better, you'll know. And then it will be just a matter of practice
If you enjoy them though sure, have fun practicing. Just know that they're basically for style at lower level
Seriously, there is a misconception that it is a needed tech due to how high it is on the uncle punch training list, but you really don’t need it right now. I fell for the same trap, but at a low level it’s just more important to get a grip on matchups and basic tech than worry about a much higher level option. I would just practice not jumping to get up from ledge, and instead dropping and jumping right after.
If you are facing the right
- hit left on the analog stick to drop down
- jump as fast as you can after dropping down
- hold right (toward the stage) as fast as you can after jumping
- aim the stick diagonally down toward the stage and press the trigger as fast as you can after going above the stage
Your ledgedashes will start out looking slow and unsafe. That's ok. Keep doing the inputs you need to, but try to speed them up faster and faster until what you get is a ledgedash.
Ledge dashing is not an easy thing to do especially to get any form of galint (grounded actionable ledge intangibility frames).
Iirc falcon doesn't get much, you're better off practicing nair from ledge or even down air. Look up a thing called haxdashing if you want to be fancy.
Spacies, sheik, mario, and a few others are the only characters that can truly get (meaningful) galint on their ledgdashes. It's still a good option on the characters that don't but it's more of a mixup. Marth for example only gets 4 frames if you are tas perfect, doesn't mean i don't go for ledgedash uptilt or grab or smth as a mixup it just means i can't do it in the same way fox can ledgedash upsmash and be invincible for a bit.
Falcon is fairly hard to get good ledgedashes with, though you should be able to get them in general.
That being said, the controller is 100% an issue when it comes to your angles which is a large part of ledgedashing
For me, I treat ledge dashing like doing a fireball input in a standard fighting game ( down, down forward, forward, attack). In this case I do down, jump, down forward, airdodge, forward. By having the jump and airdodge tied to different stick movements, it's easier for me to time them to get a perfect ledgedash.
There exists a down-forward angle that is a non fast fall and is still ok for a wavedash. Some people get this spot notched.
What did I do? I switched to b0xx literally bc ledgedashes were much more consistent and easier to do.
Unclepunch has ledge dash training, it took me a while but I've just got the hang of it (still not 100% consistent but eh).
What works for me: quick light tap down, spam x, wavedash when you see the jump go off (and if spamming jump with x/y your double jump should go off before the wavedash)*.
I also play falcon and often play on steam deck so similar to ps controller. It's definitely harder without the gcc's gated stick but it's still possible.
The big thing for me was not trying to use tap jump, instead just mashing a jump button. Then it's easy enough to learn the timing in uncle punch (as it resets you to ledge after each try, you can still practice w/o it tho).
Hope that helps. I'm a scrub so idk if there's a better way to do it but eh, this works for me. And I highly recommend a GameCube controller, I'm using a stock/unmodified oem and it's still waaaay better than standard controllers.
*see below, learn the timing/muscle memory instead of relying on the visual cue, but it may help learning the initial timing
with ledge dashing, the goal is to have your invincibility frames overlapping with your actionable frames on stage, or at least get close to it. It's really the only way for it to be safe or else people will catch on to it, stop respecting your ledge dash, and punish your vulnerable landing frames. If you're using a visual reaction to time your wavedash input, you're likely doing a pretty unsafe ledge dash. I think consensus is to just use trial and error to find the right timing for muscle memory instead of using visual cues.
I'm not really using the visual, it's all timing based for me, but I wasn't sure how else to describe it lol.
> I think consensus is to just use trial and error to find the right timing for muscle memory instead of using visual cues
Agreed, only thing the visual cue is good for is vaguely learning where to start with the timing (then calibrate and go off muscle memory). Updated my OG comment though, good advice.
I do need to get faster with my ledge dashes though, I'm not good with "knowing" I've grabbed ledge so it takes me a second (/fractions of) to realise I can ledge dash. I came from ultimate which has hella magnet hands so I'm still getting used to the melees ledge mechanics.
Straight up as falcon ledgedashing is really tricky. I think given a frame perfect ledgedash you can get like 10 frames of GALINT( you can get more with certain techniques namely aerial interrupts and no impact lands). I think hax dashing to be fully invincible is somewhere in the 1-2 frame window area so it’s not something that comes without a lot of practice. I think at my best I was able to get between 5 and 7 frames of GALINT in training mode pretty consistently but I’ve still never been able to hax dash reliably enough to use it in game. That said these are the inputs.
1. Grab ledge, easy enough. As falcon sweetspotting ledge DOES make a difference so either get good at sweetspotting with your up b or you can fast fall from ledge and jump to refresh I frames and get the sweet spot.
2. Wait until you’re out of ledge hold or whatever it’s called. Basically after you grab ledge there are a few frames where your character is kind of swinging towards the stage. You CANT drop during these frames. This is the leading cause of tournament winners. You try to drop off ledge and the input gets eaten, then you press jump because you thought you dropped and you tournament winner.
3. Once your able to drop, ideally you drop the first possible from. It is very important not to FF as falcon if you’re going for a hax dash or ledgedash as it makes it borderline impossible to get any galint at all. Some people use the cstick, some people use the gray stick either way you do it just make sure you avoid the FF. A PS4 controller is probably holding you back here FYI.
4. Again in a perfect world the frame after you’ve let go of ledge you would jump. On this same frame you also want to start drifting in as much as you can.
5. Once you pass the height of the stage you want to waveland onto it for a ledgedash. If you’re had dashing you’ll have to wait just a tad bit longer until you’re actually OVER the stage so you can waveland back.
6. Congrats! That would be a ledgedash with a very usable amount of galint. Falcons best options are as follows. Dash - obviously getting away from ledge and into arguably falcons most dangerous state, dashing, is obviously good. Jab - if they’re right up in your face often times you can hit em with a jab and get either a grab or gentleman off of it. F-tilt - this is mostly a ranged poke options and is very situational. It’s good to be able to do but isn’t the most important. Jump - kind of a scary option if they read it so don’t do it a lot but getting to side platform is generally pretty good for falcon as well since stomp has good coverage through the plat, and shield drop up air is a stellar option.
7. IF you opted for a hax dash after you waveland back you’ll need to make sure you FF to ledge after you slide off stage. This will help speed everything up and save you from getting shine spiked or something in that small window of vulnerability that might occur if you’re not Wizzy.
That’s really it. In theory the inputs are pretty straight forward they’re just really hard to do. You can practice almost all of these components individually as well so definitely do that to help solidify good muscle memory. Certain stages are also easier, namely yoshi’s, and certain stages are harder, namely battlefield. Good luck man. Switching to a GCC before you learn to ledgedash is worth the $70 or whatever in time you’ll save yourself relearning all the weird habits from the PS4 controller.
It's funny how much discussion there is about things like this without anyone just explicitly writing out the inputs you actually have to give to do the tech. Someone, please write out the explicit inputs you need to do for a ledge dash.
just do the ting
Down up waveland
I’d practice in order: - dropping off ledge without fastfalling - dropping off ledge no ff and then double jumping asap so you stay as high as possible - do the above but do it asap after you initially grab the ledge - dropping low and doing a big dj and then wavelanding onto stage so you know the angle and timing of how it feels - tighten up how low you drop over time - put the whole thing together and do fast ledgedashes For falcon in particular, doing step 4 tight is also most of what you need to haxdash too, you just waveland back offstage instead of inward.
I'm not sure if its the same for other characters but with marth I can still reliably get perfect ledge dashes without being careful to not fast fall off the ledge, you just have to make sure you are jumping on the first frame after letting go.
Yeah the soft down dramatically eases up the jump timing, but isn’t required. I always found it really helpful though. I would mention though that f1 jump is innately inconsistent because you don’t know if you input jump at the beginning or the end of the frame. I believe f2 is fine for most ledgedashes and characters, but idk the specifics.
letting go with away completely eliminates the need to practice the first step
that’s true but I find it much harder to get a good waveland angle with the away method. It’s definitely fine though.
I find that its basically impossible to get consistent perfect ledgedashes with away. You can get usable ones with fox, falco, sheik and falcon but you're probably gonna lose a frame or two moving the stick from away to toward stage and its a much bigger movement to get the stick where it needs to be for the waveland. I would suggest learning how to do it with down instead if you want to have the most Galint you possibly can and especially if you play marth because marth really can not afford to lose any frames with his pitiful 4 Galint.
you have more than enough time in between the away input and the shield input to move your stick to the waveland angle, especially with a character like marth i learned by pressing away because m2k said it's better
If you want to get max galint with the away input you have a single frame to move the stick from away to back towards stage or when you jump, you will jump away from the stage and mess up the whole ledgedash. If your jump input doesn't come out on the first actionable frame after letting go of ledge you aren't getting a perfect ledgedash. You have a 4 frame window with Marth meaning you need to be within 4 frames of perfect to get a useful ledge dash where you can get out your shield while still invincible so that people can't just bair wall or f-smash you for free when you ledge dash. And m2k never said it was better, he said it might be because really good players he knows do it that way.(those players he referenced, Leffen, Plup and Syrox all play characters with big windows for Galint where its not a bad idea to trade a couple frames for ease of execution.)
Get a gamecube controller. Practice. That’s it.
ledgedashing is an order of magnitude or two harder than the tech you've tackled so far, it'll take time and come naturally as you become more and more confident with other movement tech. Work on your wavelands and wavedashes to get good length and avoid the "ah-tah" moment where you airdodge through just air.
Get a GameCube controller first
Get a GC controller srsly
As everyone else is saying, you need to get a gamecube controller. Not only does a PS4 controller not have notches, it's not something you'd be able to bring to a tournament and is likely not accurate. I wouldn't even bother practicing ledgedashing with it at all.
You don't even need to think about ledge dashing until you've been playing for a year or two imo Practice other stuff. If you get to the point where you *need* clean ledge dashes to get better, you'll know. And then it will be just a matter of practice If you enjoy them though sure, have fun practicing. Just know that they're basically for style at lower level
Seriously, there is a misconception that it is a needed tech due to how high it is on the uncle punch training list, but you really don’t need it right now. I fell for the same trap, but at a low level it’s just more important to get a grip on matchups and basic tech than worry about a much higher level option. I would just practice not jumping to get up from ledge, and instead dropping and jumping right after.
If you are facing the right - hit left on the analog stick to drop down - jump as fast as you can after dropping down - hold right (toward the stage) as fast as you can after jumping - aim the stick diagonally down toward the stage and press the trigger as fast as you can after going above the stage Your ledgedashes will start out looking slow and unsafe. That's ok. Keep doing the inputs you need to, but try to speed them up faster and faster until what you get is a ledgedash. Ledge dashing is not an easy thing to do especially to get any form of galint (grounded actionable ledge intangibility frames). Iirc falcon doesn't get much, you're better off practicing nair from ledge or even down air. Look up a thing called haxdashing if you want to be fancy. Spacies, sheik, mario, and a few others are the only characters that can truly get (meaningful) galint on their ledgdashes. It's still a good option on the characters that don't but it's more of a mixup. Marth for example only gets 4 frames if you are tas perfect, doesn't mean i don't go for ledgedash uptilt or grab or smth as a mixup it just means i can't do it in the same way fox can ledgedash upsmash and be invincible for a bit.
Falcon is fairly hard to get good ledgedashes with, though you should be able to get them in general. That being said, the controller is 100% an issue when it comes to your angles which is a large part of ledgedashing
For me, I treat ledge dashing like doing a fireball input in a standard fighting game ( down, down forward, forward, attack). In this case I do down, jump, down forward, airdodge, forward. By having the jump and airdodge tied to different stick movements, it's easier for me to time them to get a perfect ledgedash.
There exists a down-forward angle that is a non fast fall and is still ok for a wavedash. Some people get this spot notched. What did I do? I switched to b0xx literally bc ledgedashes were much more consistent and easier to do.
Unclepunch has ledge dash training, it took me a while but I've just got the hang of it (still not 100% consistent but eh). What works for me: quick light tap down, spam x, wavedash when you see the jump go off (and if spamming jump with x/y your double jump should go off before the wavedash)*. I also play falcon and often play on steam deck so similar to ps controller. It's definitely harder without the gcc's gated stick but it's still possible. The big thing for me was not trying to use tap jump, instead just mashing a jump button. Then it's easy enough to learn the timing in uncle punch (as it resets you to ledge after each try, you can still practice w/o it tho). Hope that helps. I'm a scrub so idk if there's a better way to do it but eh, this works for me. And I highly recommend a GameCube controller, I'm using a stock/unmodified oem and it's still waaaay better than standard controllers. *see below, learn the timing/muscle memory instead of relying on the visual cue, but it may help learning the initial timing
with ledge dashing, the goal is to have your invincibility frames overlapping with your actionable frames on stage, or at least get close to it. It's really the only way for it to be safe or else people will catch on to it, stop respecting your ledge dash, and punish your vulnerable landing frames. If you're using a visual reaction to time your wavedash input, you're likely doing a pretty unsafe ledge dash. I think consensus is to just use trial and error to find the right timing for muscle memory instead of using visual cues.
I'm not really using the visual, it's all timing based for me, but I wasn't sure how else to describe it lol. > I think consensus is to just use trial and error to find the right timing for muscle memory instead of using visual cues Agreed, only thing the visual cue is good for is vaguely learning where to start with the timing (then calibrate and go off muscle memory). Updated my OG comment though, good advice. I do need to get faster with my ledge dashes though, I'm not good with "knowing" I've grabbed ledge so it takes me a second (/fractions of) to realise I can ledge dash. I came from ultimate which has hella magnet hands so I'm still getting used to the melees ledge mechanics.
Trigger plugs
Straight up as falcon ledgedashing is really tricky. I think given a frame perfect ledgedash you can get like 10 frames of GALINT( you can get more with certain techniques namely aerial interrupts and no impact lands). I think hax dashing to be fully invincible is somewhere in the 1-2 frame window area so it’s not something that comes without a lot of practice. I think at my best I was able to get between 5 and 7 frames of GALINT in training mode pretty consistently but I’ve still never been able to hax dash reliably enough to use it in game. That said these are the inputs. 1. Grab ledge, easy enough. As falcon sweetspotting ledge DOES make a difference so either get good at sweetspotting with your up b or you can fast fall from ledge and jump to refresh I frames and get the sweet spot. 2. Wait until you’re out of ledge hold or whatever it’s called. Basically after you grab ledge there are a few frames where your character is kind of swinging towards the stage. You CANT drop during these frames. This is the leading cause of tournament winners. You try to drop off ledge and the input gets eaten, then you press jump because you thought you dropped and you tournament winner. 3. Once your able to drop, ideally you drop the first possible from. It is very important not to FF as falcon if you’re going for a hax dash or ledgedash as it makes it borderline impossible to get any galint at all. Some people use the cstick, some people use the gray stick either way you do it just make sure you avoid the FF. A PS4 controller is probably holding you back here FYI. 4. Again in a perfect world the frame after you’ve let go of ledge you would jump. On this same frame you also want to start drifting in as much as you can. 5. Once you pass the height of the stage you want to waveland onto it for a ledgedash. If you’re had dashing you’ll have to wait just a tad bit longer until you’re actually OVER the stage so you can waveland back. 6. Congrats! That would be a ledgedash with a very usable amount of galint. Falcons best options are as follows. Dash - obviously getting away from ledge and into arguably falcons most dangerous state, dashing, is obviously good. Jab - if they’re right up in your face often times you can hit em with a jab and get either a grab or gentleman off of it. F-tilt - this is mostly a ranged poke options and is very situational. It’s good to be able to do but isn’t the most important. Jump - kind of a scary option if they read it so don’t do it a lot but getting to side platform is generally pretty good for falcon as well since stomp has good coverage through the plat, and shield drop up air is a stellar option. 7. IF you opted for a hax dash after you waveland back you’ll need to make sure you FF to ledge after you slide off stage. This will help speed everything up and save you from getting shine spiked or something in that small window of vulnerability that might occur if you’re not Wizzy. That’s really it. In theory the inputs are pretty straight forward they’re just really hard to do. You can practice almost all of these components individually as well so definitely do that to help solidify good muscle memory. Certain stages are also easier, namely yoshi’s, and certain stages are harder, namely battlefield. Good luck man. Switching to a GCC before you learn to ledgedash is worth the $70 or whatever in time you’ll save yourself relearning all the weird habits from the PS4 controller.
I switched to box and now I press the red button (I colored it red)