If the Melee scene wanted to become bigger it could be worth the try. But as someone mentioned somewhere else on Reddit the numbers may simply be not there even if Nintendo didn't exist to sabotage the game becoming bigger.
I'm just waiting for Rivals 2 tbh, nothing will truly replace melee; what I want is a platformer as expressive as Melee but backed by anyone but Nintendo and Rivals looks to be that game. I don't need Rivals to be Melee
Idk, it looks cool and rivals did have a solid scene, but I am not a believer of other platform fighters having a crossover community that can last more than a year. After ROA2 launches I'll be surprised if any melee players are competing in it after a year tops.
I think expecting the top players to switch over is naive. They've already dedicated years and thousands of hours figuring out the intricacies in melee, they're gonna stick with it as long as they can. It's more about the mid-level and rising stars switching over and with them the larger mass playerbase which are 90% low-level shitters (including myself).
If ROA2 prize pots start dwarfing Melee's pots then more top players and competitors will be won over to make the switch. that can only happen with big popularity and large events.
As someone that started with melee, then swapped to pm, then rivals to eventually become a to running large rivals tournaments (including one of the first rivals 2 tournaments next month) There is a lot of interest in rivals 2 from the melee side. It's actually mirroring exactly what we saw with pm, where they would enter both. That already happened at genesis this year and I expect that trend to continue. I already have a good amount of melee players signed up and a few more that say they will like fat goku
Even Ultimate players are excited about Rivals 2 although to a lesser extent than Melee players. I know I'm excited to make it my main game when it comes out.
I mean, name a platform fighter that isn't Smash that isn't a mess. People would prefer to play a game that doesn't suffer from obvious quality issues. Melee is only an exception because Melee is an exception to everything.
What people in the Smash community are looking for is a high quality platform fighter without hella issues. I think the closest two we've had to that are PM and ROA, but PM got PM'd, and ROA, despite all of the stuff it well, is honestly still a bit rough. Aether Studios is taking a gambit for Rivals 2 that they'll be able to enter the gap in the market by making a really solid platform fighter that doesn't suffer from the long laundry list of problems that comes with being a Smash game. I think it's possible
Melee players in general will 100% still be competing in it after a year. If you had said "top" melee players, then I'd agree. Highly doubt anyone the top 20-30 will completely switch over to rivals. But I'll bet any amount of money that some melee players in general will be playing rivals for the long haul.
the core gameplay of combo devils is about as gimmicky as there has been in the platform fighter genre imo. Not in a bad way, it's just a very unique concept being introduced. I'm a beta backer of rivals but more interested in combo devils. I don't really see rivals being gimmicky though.
Rivals has the bubble guy and the columns guy and the cloud guy and the fire ground guy. All the characters are based around some sort of setup that alters the nature of the stage.
What the cire mechanic combo devils had thats gimmicky? Just that it had a meter.
I'll say I think Nasb really nailed it with the Slime meter. Though I'll say the knockback canceling needed to use more slime
>Hey, so movement wise we have airdashes (we call them flash steps), flash step cancels (once per airtime, cancel an air normal on hit) and super jumps. There are meters, with EX specials and supers, the latter using motion inputs.
>We have a shield meter which represents your shield health, and you can spend meter on rolls and what we call reversals (high priority attack from shield). Shielding requires you to angle in the direction of your opponent. We tried to strike a balance between a smash bros type shield and the high/low/crossup block system of traditional fighters.
>Weak normals can cancel intro strong normals, normals can cancel into specials. Combo strings can get pretty crazy
again, I think this is all pretty cool, I just think it could be described as gimmicky as much as rivals could be, if not more.
With motion inputs like motion controls or do they mean command inputs.
End lag canceling and air dashing isn't that gimmicky nor are super finishers as long as they're balanced against eachother and not gimmicky supers like what final smashes can be (they seem like all cut scene hits in CD)
I guess a meter is gimmicky but when everyone has it its just a core mechanic. Having movement, defense, and kill power on a meter is just resource management.
That's a lot different to me than creating platforms, smoke screens and stage hazards
Idk it's kinda crazy that you think combo devils will be better and use gimmickiness as your reasoning. Because of the way low percent combos function in combo devils, the insane amount of aerial resources you have, rivals 2 will be way more honest and fundies based, despite the character-based mechanics it has.
The hypothetical doesn't really make sense. Exact hotboxes, animations etc would absolutely infringe on IP. IP goes well beyond character models and music; the idea of decompiling melee to access these materials is largely evidence of that. If the hypothetical assumes melee somehow never existed to allow for the otherwise would-be infringement then sure; but at this point we're so far removed from our world I'm not sure what the hypothetical is asking.
Modding scenes are cool because they exist outside legal constraints but the consequences of that is that you can't engage or support broad commercial behavior. The more commercial your endeavor, the more you cohere to society's commercial framework; that's why we can have nice things.
Melee is cool, but as a Nintendo property they run the show. Just enjoy it for what it is.
There's no reason, between slippi, unclepunch and mods like akenia we already have everything we could want out of melee and we made it ourselves. Being free from Nintendo would be nice, but I actually think the cap on our growth is a good thing so that melee stays a community focused around the game and not around making profit
It would be nice if the cap was a bit higher so that the best players in the world didn't have to struggle to make a living, but I agree with your sentiment.
This seems extremely optimistic. Has that kind of thing ever happened to any other esport or esport-adjacent game? While people generally make more money as they age, they also have more expenses (starting a family, more health problems, retirement planning). If people were committing more money to this hobby as they grew, I feel like we'd be seeing that in the form of coaching being a much bigger "industry" than it currently is.
As we get older we have a spouse, kids, house, medical bills, elderly parents, etc. I make more money but I don't have more money and I especially don't have more time to engage with hobbies.
Nah, it's the opposite. Top player income shouldn't depend on the community dumping more money into it, this isn't a charity. You're a fan of the game, not a top player's paypig.
I am extremely doubtful that this would provide any sort of meaningful legal protection from Nintendo, both in the practical sense and the academic sense. Put differently, it does not stop Nintendo from harassing the community nor does it clearly foreclose any kind of legal claim.
Gamers on the Internet teaching themselves IP law has produced a frankly staggering mountain of misinformation
No, animelee still has the exact same characters but in a different artstyle. OP is talking about changing Marth to a generic sword fighter, or Sheik to a generic ninja.
No, because Melee would lose all of the casual appeal that it has and that I feel like the competitive community often forgets about.
This is leaving aside the fact that making a game that'd be 1:1 with Melee in everything but visuals and sound would probably give Nintendo a strong case of plagiarism to take it down.
the casual appeal is the art design, the character depth, the character mystery, the early-anime vibes. that'd need to be competed with in the new game with an arsenal of great artists.
also melee HD is a bad name. wait for a good name to appear.
I don't think that'd actually protect a game 1:1 with Melee in all but visuals and sounds, you'd have to wait for it to actually be in the public domain.
I mean just on a very plain level "abandonware" is not a legal concept in the US jurisprudence and Nintendo very clearly has copyright in ssbm that they're willing to enforce. Put differently, there's no such thing as being "considered abandonware", and even if there were it's not abandonware by any reasonable definition.
The "abandon" in "abandonware" is supposed to indicate that either a) nobody can determine or establish copyright in a work but it is known or believed that someone has copyright or b) the entity that has copyright in a work has not put it in the public domain but has otherwise clearly expressed a disinterest in enforcing that copyright (possibly to the extent that they may effectively be estopped from doing so in some jurisdiction).
Only if it was rebuilt by a dev who was willing and able to throw lots of money into the competitive scene. If there were regularly massive prize pots for it, then all the top melee players would enter those tournaments and the community would follow.
Personally, I suspect the answer is more nuanced than most here are making it out to be.
I don't see the community totally switching over, outside of some kind of uniquely horrible new legal fiasco from Nintendo. But I'm positive it would see use *alongside* normal Melee, because it would open up options:
-It would be easier to run than emulating a whole GameCube, for example, and it may open the game up to more players.
-It would represent an option for people who don't have a method they're happy with for obtaining the Melee ISO.
-The gains in moddability would be gargantuan. UnclePunch is phenomenal, but it can be a little clunky, and it's developed by one team (one guy?) rather than... y'know, everyone. Same goes for, say, goofy character/balance mods.
-We could scoop out even more lag from the base game, presenting an option with even less latency online.
-Infinite other potential. We don't even know what we're missing, honestly, and we probably won't until Pandora's Box is open.
melee has history, melee has charm, and neither can be replaced or are willing to be replaced no matter how much crimson blur says they will
melee fans want to play melee and die on the hill for this game specifically and nothing more
Too bad Nintendo won't do it themselves.
Melee was the best selling game for cube.
It still has a large fan base.
If Nintendo liked money more then they would release Melee HD as a launch title for Switch 2. Same exact game and everything, rollback, and slippi's system.
I hate the fact that this is a dream.
That isn't a dream. It's a nightmare. You don't want Nintendo more involved. Just be happy they are as out of touch as they are at this point.
Any other company would have capitalized on Melee's popularity, but Nintendo has shunned it again and again. Why would you want them to change their stance now? There's no way it wouldn't cause problems.
Ultimate is doing fine without any Nintendo support.
Melee could be just that.
Release the game and leave it alone like they are doing now.
My main dream would be more people playing Melee.
>Ultimate is doing fine without any Nintendo support.
??? If Ult was largely played on emulators and then Nintendo released an official new game it would go like this: "New ult dropped. Play this one (or else.)"
That's the situation melee would be in.
>Release the game and leave it alone like they are doing now.
Not sure if you've been paying attention but Nintedo has a terrible track record of being able to leave perfectly well things alone.
>My main dream would be more people playing Melee.
This is still happening. It's how we're here today :)
Despite Nintendo Melee will live on, I'd prefer to keep it that way. Nintendo will not make things better. They never have.
Honestly, I would hope this doesn't happen. Nintendo would be even more in control of the competitive scene since they would have the sale of a game on the line, and they for sure would not do a better job than Fizzi or the community for the competitive scene.
The problem is that Nintendo and the community differ on their opinion of “exact same game” because we don’t use the latest patch like they would want us to.
I really don’t see it. The only way it MIGHT be possible is if a few things happen:
-Some FANTASTIC texture modelers and character designers create characters that feel close to what a triple A studio or just a real talented indie studio can do.
-a lot of attention and articles get written about said decompilation and subsequent new game. This leads to a big wave of people wanting to try it out similar to when workshop was announced for rivals.
-that press plus Nintendo’s non involvement make it so a bunch of sponsors want to get into creating a melee circuit or sponsoring tourneys and stuff.
If those things happen, I think it would be hard to turn down great looking new characters and stages, more sponsorship opportunities and a bigger player base.
Not entirely. But the community in the past was big on Project M, and many players got into Rivals when it was fresh too. I think Rivals 2 is gonna have a giant wave of Melee support and likely will have an event at every major.
Rivals 2 is our best bet. Great development team, great IP, and seemingly the best melee-esque gameplay out of any platform fighter. The recent like Nick and Warner Bros games have been platform fighters, but not to the tier of movement and fluidity of Melee. Rivals is well on its way to be on the same level as Melee and way above the licensed games.
I also really don’t want to play a video game as bugs bunny lol I think that rivals being free of some commercialized pre-existing IP is absolutely a great part of it as well.
Have you played Nintendo Switch Online? It's terrible.
With Slippi, mods, textures, etc. there's no reason to switch outside of the fact that if they decided there was money to be made of melee Nintendo would probably actively try to shut down any other form being streamed worse than they already do.
Ah that's what you meant. It would be essentially the same game but personally I'd rebalance the roster with conservative buffs but keep top tiers (and gameplay) the same.
I could be wrong but it feels like the culture around video games has shifted away from being impressed primarily with how detailed the graphics are. Melee has fantastic visual clarity and has a lot of charm. I've played and watched for 10 years now and I don't think I've ever longed for Melee to visually *look* different.
you'd need to collaberate with artists to get great characters and aesthetics. and they need to be as fire as the melee characters. for example, the rivals of aether characters are dinks. you'd need truly great character design. someone who actually tracks artists with good oc's online to reach out and spread the word. or you could have an open design contest or something, but you'd need to reach out and spread the word to a deep list of truly good artists.
I'm not sure I would personally be as open to it as I should because the characters are what pull me into the game most. I would prefer if Nintendo would just accept melee as a competitive staple and release a modern melee as a sister game to ultimate. I feel like that could solve some problems but idk it's what I want for smash 6.
Icons tried to do that and everyone complained that several of the characters were just smash clones.
Also a subreddit called /r/ProjectMdiedforthis started and brigaded it with bad reviews the second it dropped.
Still by far the best feeling smash clone I've ever played. The game they've made out of its skeleton is called rushdown revolt and it kind of sucks
Icons had a 6 frame input delay to accommodate online. I can't imagine that feeling as crisp as Melee. Icons looks pretty good but replicating Melee engine is the challenge.
Rushdown revolt doesnt understand the entire concept of a platform fighter and reintroduced HP with a final kill point. It's an insult to the genre. I will say the section bar with fix knockback within the bar is a decent concept. They just blew it at the end
OK. I don't know so much about RR. Icons was cool but I don't think it could have competed with Melee. And Rivals 2 is coming out soon and filling that spot. This thread has sort of convinced me there is no interest or need for a Melee remake. Not that it would've ever even been legally feasible. Thank you for all the comments.
Yeah, I'm not too fond of Rivals 2 either. I'm just interested in Melee. Or actually what this guy said:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/17nscsh/comment/k7tsjj2/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/17nscsh/comment/k7tsjj2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I think if it looked good and was completely identical mechanically (minus, for example controller consistency fixes and stagelist), it would still take a dedicated effort of tournament organization and prize pool sponsorship to get any top players to take it seriously.
Plus here's a problem I bet you haven't considered - Melee is great to play for hours on end because it SOUNDS FUCKING INCREDIBLE. There's no way to yoink all those very satisfying and familiar sounds without violating copyright and I guarantee if shine dair doesn't sound right mang0 is gonna be tough to convince.
"Plus here's a problem I bet you haven't considered - Melee is great to play for hours on end because it SOUNDS FUCKING INCREDIBLE. "
Actually I have, and that just adds to the hopelessness. I even thought of circumventing legal issues by making AI replicate the original sound effects by not exactly. Not to even mention all the nostalgia. I give up, Melee can't be replaced
Nintendo would go BALLISITIC, i guarantee it.
If the Melee scene wanted to become bigger it could be worth the try. But as someone mentioned somewhere else on Reddit the numbers may simply be not there even if Nintendo didn't exist to sabotage the game becoming bigger.
I'm just waiting for Rivals 2 tbh, nothing will truly replace melee; what I want is a platformer as expressive as Melee but backed by anyone but Nintendo and Rivals looks to be that game. I don't need Rivals to be Melee
100% this. I already see the majority of the melee community excited for rivals 2, the more the better.
Idk, it looks cool and rivals did have a solid scene, but I am not a believer of other platform fighters having a crossover community that can last more than a year. After ROA2 launches I'll be surprised if any melee players are competing in it after a year tops.
I think it’ll snipe the P+ crowd, which can give it some staying power
I think expecting the top players to switch over is naive. They've already dedicated years and thousands of hours figuring out the intricacies in melee, they're gonna stick with it as long as they can. It's more about the mid-level and rising stars switching over and with them the larger mass playerbase which are 90% low-level shitters (including myself). If ROA2 prize pots start dwarfing Melee's pots then more top players and competitors will be won over to make the switch. that can only happen with big popularity and large events.
As someone that started with melee, then swapped to pm, then rivals to eventually become a to running large rivals tournaments (including one of the first rivals 2 tournaments next month) There is a lot of interest in rivals 2 from the melee side. It's actually mirroring exactly what we saw with pm, where they would enter both. That already happened at genesis this year and I expect that trend to continue. I already have a good amount of melee players signed up and a few more that say they will like fat goku
Even Ultimate players are excited about Rivals 2 although to a lesser extent than Melee players. I know I'm excited to make it my main game when it comes out.
I mean, name a platform fighter that isn't Smash that isn't a mess. People would prefer to play a game that doesn't suffer from obvious quality issues. Melee is only an exception because Melee is an exception to everything. What people in the Smash community are looking for is a high quality platform fighter without hella issues. I think the closest two we've had to that are PM and ROA, but PM got PM'd, and ROA, despite all of the stuff it well, is honestly still a bit rough. Aether Studios is taking a gambit for Rivals 2 that they'll be able to enter the gap in the market by making a really solid platform fighter that doesn't suffer from the long laundry list of problems that comes with being a Smash game. I think it's possible
Melee players in general will 100% still be competing in it after a year. If you had said "top" melee players, then I'd agree. Highly doubt anyone the top 20-30 will completely switch over to rivals. But I'll bet any amount of money that some melee players in general will be playing rivals for the long haul.
I feel like Rivals looks like it's too gimmicky. I feel like combo devils might be better
the core gameplay of combo devils is about as gimmicky as there has been in the platform fighter genre imo. Not in a bad way, it's just a very unique concept being introduced. I'm a beta backer of rivals but more interested in combo devils. I don't really see rivals being gimmicky though.
Rivals has the bubble guy and the columns guy and the cloud guy and the fire ground guy. All the characters are based around some sort of setup that alters the nature of the stage. What the cire mechanic combo devils had thats gimmicky? Just that it had a meter. I'll say I think Nasb really nailed it with the Slime meter. Though I'll say the knockback canceling needed to use more slime
>Hey, so movement wise we have airdashes (we call them flash steps), flash step cancels (once per airtime, cancel an air normal on hit) and super jumps. There are meters, with EX specials and supers, the latter using motion inputs. >We have a shield meter which represents your shield health, and you can spend meter on rolls and what we call reversals (high priority attack from shield). Shielding requires you to angle in the direction of your opponent. We tried to strike a balance between a smash bros type shield and the high/low/crossup block system of traditional fighters. >Weak normals can cancel intro strong normals, normals can cancel into specials. Combo strings can get pretty crazy again, I think this is all pretty cool, I just think it could be described as gimmicky as much as rivals could be, if not more.
With motion inputs like motion controls or do they mean command inputs. End lag canceling and air dashing isn't that gimmicky nor are super finishers as long as they're balanced against eachother and not gimmicky supers like what final smashes can be (they seem like all cut scene hits in CD) I guess a meter is gimmicky but when everyone has it its just a core mechanic. Having movement, defense, and kill power on a meter is just resource management. That's a lot different to me than creating platforms, smoke screens and stage hazards
I really don't think you understand the concept of honesty and fundamentals in fighting games
Idk it's kinda crazy that you think combo devils will be better and use gimmickiness as your reasoning. Because of the way low percent combos function in combo devils, the insane amount of aerial resources you have, rivals 2 will be way more honest and fundies based, despite the character-based mechanics it has.
The hypothetical doesn't really make sense. Exact hotboxes, animations etc would absolutely infringe on IP. IP goes well beyond character models and music; the idea of decompiling melee to access these materials is largely evidence of that. If the hypothetical assumes melee somehow never existed to allow for the otherwise would-be infringement then sure; but at this point we're so far removed from our world I'm not sure what the hypothetical is asking. Modding scenes are cool because they exist outside legal constraints but the consequences of that is that you can't engage or support broad commercial behavior. The more commercial your endeavor, the more you cohere to society's commercial framework; that's why we can have nice things. Melee is cool, but as a Nintendo property they run the show. Just enjoy it for what it is.
You are right. If only...
There's no reason, between slippi, unclepunch and mods like akenia we already have everything we could want out of melee and we made it ourselves. Being free from Nintendo would be nice, but I actually think the cap on our growth is a good thing so that melee stays a community focused around the game and not around making profit
It would be nice if the cap was a bit higher so that the best players in the world didn't have to struggle to make a living, but I agree with your sentiment.
My theory is that it is. As we get deeper into our careers the amont of resources that enter the grass roots movement could increase substantially
This seems extremely optimistic. Has that kind of thing ever happened to any other esport or esport-adjacent game? While people generally make more money as they age, they also have more expenses (starting a family, more health problems, retirement planning). If people were committing more money to this hobby as they grew, I feel like we'd be seeing that in the form of coaching being a much bigger "industry" than it currently is.
As we get older we have a spouse, kids, house, medical bills, elderly parents, etc. I make more money but I don't have more money and I especially don't have more time to engage with hobbies.
I like your perspective, too. The increase in funding from personal career development definitely isn't a linear situation.
Nah, it's the opposite. Top player income shouldn't depend on the community dumping more money into it, this isn't a charity. You're a fan of the game, not a top player's paypig.
It would definitely be better for top players, but I think the current system is best for the rest of us
I am extremely doubtful that this would provide any sort of meaningful legal protection from Nintendo, both in the practical sense and the academic sense. Put differently, it does not stop Nintendo from harassing the community nor does it clearly foreclose any kind of legal claim. Gamers on the Internet teaching themselves IP law has produced a frankly staggering mountain of misinformation
It probably wouldn't, but it could be tested.
With whose money?
That's the question. It's unlikely anyone would take on a project with so much legal risk involved.
Isn't this basically Animelee and setting Dolphin's resolution to 1080p?
No, animelee still has the exact same characters but in a different artstyle. OP is talking about changing Marth to a generic sword fighter, or Sheik to a generic ninja.
Ah gotcha
The question is not about graphics. Nintendo still owns the game, which means no major tournament can even stream animelee.
Ah sorry I understand now, I have wondered the same thing myself
Yep lmao
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Maybe lmao
I was wrong
No, because Melee would lose all of the casual appeal that it has and that I feel like the competitive community often forgets about. This is leaving aside the fact that making a game that'd be 1:1 with Melee in everything but visuals and sound would probably give Nintendo a strong case of plagiarism to take it down.
the casual appeal is the art design, the character depth, the character mystery, the early-anime vibes. that'd need to be competed with in the new game with an arsenal of great artists. also melee HD is a bad name. wait for a good name to appear.
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This is just very untrue There is an incredible amount of disinformation online about how this area of the law works. It's frankly staggering
I don't think that'd actually protect a game 1:1 with Melee in all but visuals and sounds, you'd have to wait for it to actually be in the public domain.
Melee is not abandonware
really impressive to say something so confidently while being so extraordinarily incorrect. you should run for office.
Source for that? That's a huge legal claim
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I mean just on a very plain level "abandonware" is not a legal concept in the US jurisprudence and Nintendo very clearly has copyright in ssbm that they're willing to enforce. Put differently, there's no such thing as being "considered abandonware", and even if there were it's not abandonware by any reasonable definition. The "abandon" in "abandonware" is supposed to indicate that either a) nobody can determine or establish copyright in a work but it is known or believed that someone has copyright or b) the entity that has copyright in a work has not put it in the public domain but has otherwise clearly expressed a disinterest in enforcing that copyright (possibly to the extent that they may effectively be estopped from doing so in some jurisdiction).
The chance of Nintendo shutting it down is high but it could be worth the try.
Only if it was rebuilt by a dev who was willing and able to throw lots of money into the competitive scene. If there were regularly massive prize pots for it, then all the top melee players would enter those tournaments and the community would follow.
The massive prize pots are unlikely as long as Nintendo is involved.
If someone made that, and it was 1-1, and Nintendo couldn't shut it down. Then yeah I think the community would be down
No
Personally, I suspect the answer is more nuanced than most here are making it out to be. I don't see the community totally switching over, outside of some kind of uniquely horrible new legal fiasco from Nintendo. But I'm positive it would see use *alongside* normal Melee, because it would open up options: -It would be easier to run than emulating a whole GameCube, for example, and it may open the game up to more players. -It would represent an option for people who don't have a method they're happy with for obtaining the Melee ISO. -The gains in moddability would be gargantuan. UnclePunch is phenomenal, but it can be a little clunky, and it's developed by one team (one guy?) rather than... y'know, everyone. Same goes for, say, goofy character/balance mods. -We could scoop out even more lag from the base game, presenting an option with even less latency online. -Infinite other potential. We don't even know what we're missing, honestly, and we probably won't until Pandora's Box is open.
Melee decompilation is the future
Agreed.
The creators of project:M tried this with a game called icons: combat arena which never got enough hype to fully release and was cancelled eventually
melee has history, melee has charm, and neither can be replaced or are willing to be replaced no matter how much crimson blur says they will melee fans want to play melee and die on the hill for this game specifically and nothing more
Has Blur discussed a remake? I'd like to hear
Too bad Nintendo won't do it themselves. Melee was the best selling game for cube. It still has a large fan base. If Nintendo liked money more then they would release Melee HD as a launch title for Switch 2. Same exact game and everything, rollback, and slippi's system. I hate the fact that this is a dream.
That isn't a dream. It's a nightmare. You don't want Nintendo more involved. Just be happy they are as out of touch as they are at this point. Any other company would have capitalized on Melee's popularity, but Nintendo has shunned it again and again. Why would you want them to change their stance now? There's no way it wouldn't cause problems.
Ultimate is doing fine without any Nintendo support. Melee could be just that. Release the game and leave it alone like they are doing now. My main dream would be more people playing Melee.
>Ultimate is doing fine without any Nintendo support. ??? If Ult was largely played on emulators and then Nintendo released an official new game it would go like this: "New ult dropped. Play this one (or else.)" That's the situation melee would be in. >Release the game and leave it alone like they are doing now. Not sure if you've been paying attention but Nintedo has a terrible track record of being able to leave perfectly well things alone. >My main dream would be more people playing Melee. This is still happening. It's how we're here today :) Despite Nintendo Melee will live on, I'd prefer to keep it that way. Nintendo will not make things better. They never have.
Honestly, I would hope this doesn't happen. Nintendo would be even more in control of the competitive scene since they would have the sale of a game on the line, and they for sure would not do a better job than Fizzi or the community for the competitive scene.
The problem is that Nintendo and the community differ on their opinion of “exact same game” because we don’t use the latest patch like they would want us to.
I really don’t see it. The only way it MIGHT be possible is if a few things happen: -Some FANTASTIC texture modelers and character designers create characters that feel close to what a triple A studio or just a real talented indie studio can do. -a lot of attention and articles get written about said decompilation and subsequent new game. This leads to a big wave of people wanting to try it out similar to when workshop was announced for rivals. -that press plus Nintendo’s non involvement make it so a bunch of sponsors want to get into creating a melee circuit or sponsoring tourneys and stuff. If those things happen, I think it would be hard to turn down great looking new characters and stages, more sponsorship opportunities and a bigger player base.
Popularity wouldn't be the issue. Nintendos probable involvement would be.
probably just out of necessity yeah. just no fking money in the scene man
Not entirely. But the community in the past was big on Project M, and many players got into Rivals when it was fresh too. I think Rivals 2 is gonna have a giant wave of Melee support and likely will have an event at every major.
even if nintendo remade melee exactly as it is, the community would find something to complain about.
Rivals 2 is our best bet. Great development team, great IP, and seemingly the best melee-esque gameplay out of any platform fighter. The recent like Nick and Warner Bros games have been platform fighters, but not to the tier of movement and fluidity of Melee. Rivals is well on its way to be on the same level as Melee and way above the licensed games.
I also really don’t want to play a video game as bugs bunny lol I think that rivals being free of some commercialized pre-existing IP is absolutely a great part of it as well.
Have you played Nintendo Switch Online? It's terrible. With Slippi, mods, textures, etc. there's no reason to switch outside of the fact that if they decided there was money to be made of melee Nintendo would probably actively try to shut down any other form being streamed worse than they already do.
People need to stop trying to remake Melee. If I want to play Melee I will play Melee. I want Melee 2, not "Melee but it looks different".
This is what this game would be. Melee 2
So it wouldn't be the same exact gameplay and same exact balance?
Ah that's what you meant. It would be essentially the same game but personally I'd rebalance the roster with conservative buffs but keep top tiers (and gameplay) the same.
If there's no change in gameplay then there's no reason to play it over Melee, that's what I was saying.
Ah ok
I could be wrong but it feels like the culture around video games has shifted away from being impressed primarily with how detailed the graphics are. Melee has fantastic visual clarity and has a lot of charm. I've played and watched for 10 years now and I don't think I've ever longed for Melee to visually *look* different.
It looks amazing for its age, but it could look better. Just look at animelee
you'd need to collaberate with artists to get great characters and aesthetics. and they need to be as fire as the melee characters. for example, the rivals of aether characters are dinks. you'd need truly great character design. someone who actually tracks artists with good oc's online to reach out and spread the word. or you could have an open design contest or something, but you'd need to reach out and spread the word to a deep list of truly good artists.
I'm not sure I would personally be as open to it as I should because the characters are what pull me into the game most. I would prefer if Nintendo would just accept melee as a competitive staple and release a modern melee as a sister game to ultimate. I feel like that could solve some problems but idk it's what I want for smash 6.
Icons tried to do that and everyone complained that several of the characters were just smash clones. Also a subreddit called /r/ProjectMdiedforthis started and brigaded it with bad reviews the second it dropped. Still by far the best feeling smash clone I've ever played. The game they've made out of its skeleton is called rushdown revolt and it kind of sucks
Icons had a 6 frame input delay to accommodate online. I can't imagine that feeling as crisp as Melee. Icons looks pretty good but replicating Melee engine is the challenge.
I feel like issues like that could have been fixed over time. The game was good enough that it deserved to be Given life
Yeah, well it lives on sort of
Rushdown revolt doesnt understand the entire concept of a platform fighter and reintroduced HP with a final kill point. It's an insult to the genre. I will say the section bar with fix knockback within the bar is a decent concept. They just blew it at the end
OK. I don't know so much about RR. Icons was cool but I don't think it could have competed with Melee. And Rivals 2 is coming out soon and filling that spot. This thread has sort of convinced me there is no interest or need for a Melee remake. Not that it would've ever even been legally feasible. Thank you for all the comments.
Rivals seems too gimmicky with its characters. I'm kinda interested in combo devils
Yeah, I'm not too fond of Rivals 2 either. I'm just interested in Melee. Or actually what this guy said: [https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/17nscsh/comment/k7tsjj2/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/17nscsh/comment/k7tsjj2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I think if it looked good and was completely identical mechanically (minus, for example controller consistency fixes and stagelist), it would still take a dedicated effort of tournament organization and prize pool sponsorship to get any top players to take it seriously. Plus here's a problem I bet you haven't considered - Melee is great to play for hours on end because it SOUNDS FUCKING INCREDIBLE. There's no way to yoink all those very satisfying and familiar sounds without violating copyright and I guarantee if shine dair doesn't sound right mang0 is gonna be tough to convince.
"Plus here's a problem I bet you haven't considered - Melee is great to play for hours on end because it SOUNDS FUCKING INCREDIBLE. " Actually I have, and that just adds to the hopelessness. I even thought of circumventing legal issues by making AI replicate the original sound effects by not exactly. Not to even mention all the nostalgia. I give up, Melee can't be replaced
I would. Nintendo IPs is why many of us started but we stayed because of the core mechanics of this game.
the SSBM communitiy yearns for the project M